DM advice needed

>>43764283

I would start off by making fights rougher, and I hate to say it, more 'puzzle-like". Set it up so that if they just run and punch, they'll get beaten up. Don't kill them, not at first, but signal to them that they need to adjust tactics.

Have NPCs suggest ideas, and good ones. It might pay to be a bit obvious if they're minmaxing munchkins. But keep it in the realm of tactics at first, but you want to build the association in their minds that listening to NPCs is something important to do becuase it helps them win the fights they otherwise couldn't.

Then have the NPCs ask for a return on the favor. And that will snowball into other things, and you can get a real plot going.

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>>43764283
Here OP pic related for you. In the end you only need to remember one thing you're the DM you don't need to stick with a group you don't like.

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>>43764283
Use the most dickest villan ever!!

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>>43764563
Was about to post that....
I'd say, aim to kill one and just one of them as a signal that shit's about to get harder

Then fuck their shit up

>>43764283

>I fucking hate them.

Stopped reading there. If you're not having fun stop GMING for this group, it's a lot of work just to make yourself miserable.

>>43764283
>One of them's off playing Hearthstone, the other is reading builds for Diablo 3, and another one has the monster manual open and a pdf of the DMG and is trying to power game.

Kick them.

>"Oh, it's my turn? Okay, who's the closest one to me? I run to him and roll to hit. There's my roll for damage. I'm done." Back to doing something else.

Kick them.


When I ask, "what would you guys like to do?" they weren't paying attention so I need to spell out all the options. I do this, thinking that it will move the story along instead of forcing them to go back and talk to people again when gathering side quests.

Kick them.


Just fucking grow some balls and take control of your damn game. It's just as much your fault for letting them get away with this shit as it is their's for doing it.

OP here

>>43764563
>>43764631

I'm in a country town for uni and these are classmates. Ergo, not a lot of people to play with and we're still a study group. I keep playing DnD because it's both my main source of social leisure and it's also therapeutic to express creativity.


>>43764525

I made puzzle fights. I made fights where they couldn't strike the beholder without a magical weapon when it was blue and couldn't use magic against it when it was red. I made it pretty obvious and they still couldn't figure it out because no one was paying attention.

I created an ultimatum situation where two factions were at ends with each other (Apothecary guild vs the local Church) and I tried to tell them that a huge faction war was about to break out and asked what they wanted to do. They went to the Apothecary's, bought some potions and skipped town to go track down some bandits. I tried to tell them that the gates were locked and no one can get in and out. There were secret escape routes in the sewers, but I couldn't tell them that since they didn't want to interact with the townsfolk at all. Instead, they climbed the tower, killed the guards and slow falled over the wall to continue looking for a bandit's hideout.

I couldn't fault them for that, but they don't care about staying in character. The NG paladin came up with the idea for murdering the guards and when I tried to get him to rationalize it, his reply was, "it felt right at the time"

I can't seem to get them to engage in the story around them.

>>43764842
They don't seem to care about the game at all, are they having fun? Have you asked them what they want from the game? Why are they even there?

>>43764842

> I made puzzle fights. I made fights where they couldn't strike the beholder without a magical weapon when it was blue and couldn't use magic against it when it was red. I made it pretty obvious and they still couldn't figure it out because no one was paying attention.

If they couldn't figure it out, how are the characters still alive?

Stop being such a goddamn pussy.

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>>43764949
They're okay it.

I've spoken to the RPers and they don't mind the min/maxers. I've asked the min/maxers if they're enjoying themselves and they're loving it.

Basically, the only one not enjoying the status quo is me because I go through the work of world building and DMing only to have my efforts ignored.

I tried to wing things to keep it fresh, but they don't even notice when I through a water elemental at them in the demon's bakery.

I get extra salty when I see other campaigns on youtube and see what engaged players actually look like, and I wonder why I can't get my party interested like them.

>>43764985
They didn't figure it out. The melee kept swinging regardless of color and sometimes did damage.

The wizards kept lobbing spells regardless of color and sometimes did damage.

Eventually, the damage added up.

I didn't want the encounter to be ridiculous where the beholder was healed or reflected damage, because that would have ended in a TPK, they would have rerolled characters and just gone through the same process.

I'm not being a pussy, there's just no other groups for me to join.

>>43765120

No, you are being a pussy. If you made your puzzle fight weak enough that they can just power through it, then you're pussying out.

Actually punish them. TPK if necessary. Act all surprised when they have to roll new characters, and if necessary, throw the same color beholder again.

>>43764842
>The NG paladin came up with the idea for murdering the guards and when I tried to get him to rationalize it, his reply was, "it felt right at the time"

Deities in my game have leaft paladins for less then murder. I think you're too nice because you're afraid to loose then and because you don't want then to get mad at you. I tell you to create rela consequences for they're actions if they don't behave the way the character does make thne loose exp or change they're character sheet. Or do what i did give then mutiple personalities and make the one they aren't interpreting fight then and make then fake the rolls it was interesting to see the player discussing with his own character.

>>43765120
No one learns without proper feedback. You'll have to kill them a few times. If they're actually minmaxers, they'll either start caring about the challenge, or about their minmaxed characters and get involved, or quit. Any of those should be okay for you I suppose.

With love
Minmaxer

>>43765216
He's not wrong.

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>>43764283
1. Ban computers and cell phones from the table.

2. Reading the monster or DM manual is a great offense in my table because it counts as metagaming. Once the turn of the guy comes, and he can't explain to you -why- his character is hitting the golem with an adamantium axe even if he has no reason to know that he's weak to that, punish him.

3. Minmaxers? That sounds like fun. If they're up for a challenge, try going OD&D up their asses and throw puzzles that require actual thinking that that's not a challenge that could have been taken from a videogame. Consider reading The tomb of Horrors which was designed -against- players like those: Just learn from it, but don't use it since it's extremely lethal and pretty unforgiving. Just remember that a level 1 character with a 10 feet pole can solve it.

4. If your players are reward oriented, reward players with extra exp when they narrate their characters interestingly or if they enjoy roleplaying. This will make the other players try harder, or complain like a child: if you have a child that has complained for too long, kick him out.

5. Be brave, I was in the same situation when I was a new DM: You don't have to suffer when you narrate, I fucking mean it.

>>43765044
Get Convince one of them to run that shit. I have a similar group right now and I'v been teaching some of them how to DM. We've been taking turns running games and the ones that give it a shot have improved as players immensely

>>43765409
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate the feedback.

The major issues are that a) everyone uses their character sheet and dice rollers online.

b) The RPers tend to just half ass the story along or do the puzzles which keeps the minmaxers from being forced to participate. I tried trapping one in an isolated room, and the end result was that he waited while the rest of the party figured out how to get them out.

I allowed their solution simply because I didn't want to say 'No'.

c) They're loot oriented and since they're roflstomping through the encounters anyways, I don't want to arm them up the wazoo with better equipment because then they'll face roll it harder.

>>43766458
As a recovering minmaxer I can maybe give you some insight into their thought process- I always thought of the minmaxing itself AS a puzzle- one where doing the most DPR was the goal.

>>43765409 has the right of it I think- Send your players an email telling them how you feel ignored and give them the choice- they can play hearthstone on their own or they can fill out an actual character sheet and get actual dice and play D&D.
MM and DMG are similarly forbidden at the table.

You don't have to be heartless- get copies of their character sheets and incorporate their characters
>"Tim, your character has the military rank background, so the guard captain addresses you first"
The inspiration/backgrounds mechanic is there for a reason, use it.