Pathfinder General /pfg/ If you are asking for build advice

http://pastebin.com/BuSCnkyy
Reposting my homebrew races.
R8 and maybe even playtest if you're so inclined

>playing level 5 Arcane Builder wizard
>two age categories
>25 point buy
>Human
>level 5
>Traits: Spark of Creation & Clever Word Play (UMD)
>Base Scored
>Str: 5
>Dex: 10
>Con: 12
>Int: 22
>Wis: 14
>Cha: 10

>Level 1 Feat
Arcane Builder (Wondrous items)
>Wizard Bonus
Scribe Scroll
>Human Bonus
Racial Heritage (Dwarf)
>Level 3 Feat
Brew Potion
>Level 3 Bonus
Craft Wondrous
>Level 5 Feat
Craft Magic Arms & Armor
>Level 5 Wizard Bonus
Craft Wand

So at level 5 I can craft most of the major magic item types, and am taking the dwarven favored class bonus. I also have arcane builder for wondrous items to get a little extra out of them (making crafting of the road viable). In addition i have a valet familiar.

So you only get 2 hours of work done in a four hour work day for this, BUT, I can push that pretty hard:

(((((1000(base)+1000(dwarven favored class))*2(rushing))*3(valet familiar & hireling with cooperative))*1.25(wondrous item arcane builder))*.25(crafting while adventuring)) = 3750gp worth of wondrous items made a day while adventuring, more if I get a ring of sustenance and craft through the night.

I have 22 int, at level 5 I have a +4 int headband, so riding on 26 total int. I put this mainly towards craft skills, with Craft (Weapons), Craft (Armor), Craft (Jewelry), Craft (Clothing), Craft (Leather), and Craft (Alchemy) as my main ones.

We use the background skills system, so all my craft skills eat up 6 of my 13 skills per level. The rest go into knowledge skills, appraisal, spellcraft, and UMD. Knowledge Arcana, Religion, Nature, and Planes maxed, as they are the most common used.

Besides this I specialize in transmutation as a pure buffer with a bit of battlefield control. So, how terrible am I? Is this build something that would piss of GMs?

I've played wizard before, but this is my first hyper crafter. Most of the time I play an encounter ender transmuter/diviner wizard.

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>>43710714
>>43710825
Here are the ranged styles from the book. I really want to try making something dumb from Empty Quiver.

>>43710812
You shouldn't build characters as a group, unless the whole group is trying to go for a specific theme or something like a family of adventurers or some guys that grew up in the same village. Each player should work with the DM without having contact with the other players or awareness of what they are making. The DM will pull strings to make sure it all comes out alright, but having everyone show up to the first session and genuinely not know about the other PC, having to learn about them for the first time both in and out of character, is more fulfilling and interesting.

'course, that's just my opinion.

>>43710891
I generally don't assume the start of the adventure is the first time these people have worked together. Unless, they are thrust upon each other by necessity at the beginning of the adventure.

>>43710874
Empty Quiver is awesome holy crap

>>43710867
Whether or not it will piss of a GM will depend on how they feel about crafting. I've seen some GMs who just straight up don't allow the PCs to craft magic gear, for whatever reasons. I've also seen GMs that like to let the PCs have the freedom to do whatever craziness they want, including as far as crafting goes- the sort of GM that would let you get away with having a timeless demiplane of golems who craft shit for you- because it's fun to do crazy insane shenanigans. The majority of DMs fall somewhere in-between, so ultimately we can't answer that question for you.

>>43710924
I guess that's just a difference of experience between you and I then, because the latter is how most campaigns I've been in started.

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>>43710939
Want to see how Fighters become useful?

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So Bestiary 5 didn't turn out too badly.

Sure they reused a lot of shit from the spread about books and lifted one Fey entirely from the Midgard bestiary (Bastards) but the number of Fey and interesting outsiders was fantastic.

>>43710986
quiet you'll tip off skr and he'll send his trolls to murder you

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>>43711019
Can't do shit to me, plus he'd be murdering Owen Stephens for daring to make them not the worst thing ever.

>>43710986
Dear lord these are fantastic. Weapon sacrifice is cool.

>>43710986
>VERSATILE TRAINING

asdf.

I think i just came a little.

So theortically

I'm playing a dragoon, I basically have to take Handle Animal and Ride

Oh wait i take this later on and boom i have two more skills i can train up

Holy shit this is godly. Fighter now tier 4? So much good shit.

>>43710986
Fucking fantastic. I almost feel like I don't have to archetype a fighter.

>>43711056
>QUAKING
>QUAKING
>SHARDING IS LIKE SWORD BEAMS FROM ZELDA

ASDF

HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS IS THE BEST FUCKING BOOK EVER

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>>43711100
Ironically, the archetype introduced in this book doesn't benefit from Weapon Training. Which is a shame, because martial flexibility for weapon training and advanced weapon training would be fucking great.

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>>43711129
It was in the last thread, but there's an ability to use AoOs to deflect ranged attacks, siege weapons, and spells.

>>43709775
>you get a point-buy amount that's actually lower than the lowest the retards who make this game say you should ever get,
Excuse me? Fifteen points is the recommended amount

>>43711130
I'm definitely gonna be playing a Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior Fighter next. With a sage/figment familiar. Or maybe just a straight Lore Warden. This stuff makes it feel actually viable. I can have a ton of skills from the familiar plus versatile training.

Post character concepts you want to try.

>a lb ooze druid that worships Jubilex, and casts spells by taking tiny spines out of a magic pack and throwing them

>>43711150
I'm losing my fucking mind.

Alright boys its time to play fighters.

>>43711198
The best part is that the new fighter stuff is compatible with PoW's Fighter archetype, making it even better.

Does anyone have a download link for the weapon master's handbook?

>>43711182
I have too many things i want to play anon. Far too many.
>>43711154
Nope, 20 is. PFS uses it and for the last few years adventures have been designed with 20 in mind rather than 15.

What's the deal with the heirloom weapon trait? Can a player enchant the weapon, then disenchant it later and enchant it again? What are the long-term ramifications? That they get fewer gold to spend because they can't sell their sword when they upgrade?

>>43711271
>Nope, 20 is. PFS uses it and for the last few years adventures have been designed with 20 in mind rather than 15.
PFS and APs don't change the fact that the core rulebook recommends 15 as the standard. PFS in particularly is especially irrelevant in my opinion.

>>43711244
its just so good with martial fighters

Like look at this, like for two feats a bolt ace is suddenly rocking just as much utility as a gunslinger, and can get even more

utility shot is the best shit.

Should I add an aeon descended race onto >>43710864 ?
It would be God to add the neutral aligned outsiders to balance out all the others, but I'm not sure how to do it in a way that fits without making them generic meditation guys.

>>43711298
15 makes it impossible to play some of the MAD classes without dumping to oblivion. It's like you hate the monk.

>Art is getting better
>Lore is getting better
>Trouble developers are getting gently quarantined
>Releasing books that greatly improve martials and stealthy characters
>Hell's Vengeance is up next for release

Is Paizo actually improving? Is the deluge over?

>>43711154
bear in mind Pathfinder is absolute shit about ability scores. it fucking offers the suggestion of 3d6 straight down

>>43711298
What? The Core Rulebook reccomends 20 explicitly.
It has a table and high fantasy it lists as 20, the fluff, the rules and the core setting (golarion) all assume high fantasy.

>>43711383
No. The just let the non-main devs write the supplement books.
The main books will still be SJW-Muh CG Rebells-Agenda bullshit.

>>43711383
Am i the only one thoroughly unimpressed by advanced weapon training and the other weapon master's handbook feats?
I feel like I'm the only sane man in a world gone mad.

>>43711383
It seems so, some of the stuff in the Occult Realms book is amazing and the Bestiary 5 is a thing of wonder.
Finally, a fucking lich ritual.
Finally, some fucking undead that aren't always fucking evil.
Finally, fucking interesting fucking outsiders and fucking interesting fucking fey.
I think the SJW crew are busy with Hells Plucky Adventurer Masturbation AP for the moment, so we have time.

>>43711442
What do you not like about it? It's a straight upgrade over what used to be in place.

>>43711164
Is there a reason you're not taking a Mauler familiar?

>>43711423
>the rules and the core setting (golarion) all assume high fantasy.
Source? I thought it assumed STANDARD fantasy.

>>43711385
It doesn't suggest it, it presents the rules for it because it knows there are still people out that that prefer to roll for stats. Giving an option for something is not the same as suggesting you actually do that thing.

>>43711492
people who prefer to roll for stats would have already rolled for stats

>>43711477
The base rules assume nothing. The base setting, Golarion, is very clearly a high fantasy setting. All it takes to understand this is reading literally anything about Golarion.

No, they don't come right out and say "Golarion is a high fantasy setting." in those specific words. You just have to have some actual reading comprehension.

>>43711435
>The main books will still be SJW-Muh CG Rebells-Agenda bullshit.

I've heard Hell's Rebels after Book 1 actually mellows out. It still has SJW bullshit in places, but so did Reign of Winter.

The next book is going to be Hell's Vengeance (which is entirely non-main devs) and Strange Aeons is still up in the air, but we know JJ is a huge fanboy of Lovecraft so he might actually put effort into it.

The best part is that the supplements are impossible to ignore in the lore they give or changes they make, but the main books are entirely up to the DM to use or alter as they see fit.

What I'm saying is that the worst is over and you should honestly take this breath of fresh air as a sign things are getting better, because (for Hell's Vengeance at least) they are.

>>43711461
Because I want tons of extra skills for free.

>>43711503
So? They offer the option. Once again, that doesn't mean they're suggesting it. Options are good, even if you don't personally want to use this particular one.

>>43711537
Ah, I thought you wanted to play Eldritch Guardian to have your familiar fight with you, which is what the Mauler is good at. I do like Sage myself, to be honest.

>>43711458
Well yeah but its like putting a band-aid on an infected cut. Its great you are trying, but you haven't solved shit.
>>43711477
High fantasy is worlds where magic, magic items, mythical creatures and the like are everywhere and heroes are commonplace. The rules assume the characters will be able to buy magic items or find them frequently, golarion as a setting (the core setting) frequently talks about adventurers and heroes being common and nearly every monster in the bestiary is magical and is listed as being a creature you are relatively likely to encounter in a certain environment.

The classes all also tend towards a high fantasy reading, with characters not receiving subtle magic like the lord of the rings films (not the books where magic was as subtle as a brick and twice as harsh) but just outright the ability to grow horns because you got mad enough.

>>43711516
>and Strange Aeons is still up in the air

Wesley Schneider is writing Book 1 and Crystal Frasier is writing Book 2.

JJ does not have his hand in it.

>>43711609
>Well yeah but its like putting a band-aid on an infected cut. Its great you are trying, but you haven't solved shit.
It has done a lot to improve the fighter, it is a BIG upgrade. Honestly unless you want fighters as strong as wizards (which you shouldn't, you should want wizards weaker to tier 3-4) it's a pretty good thing.

>>43711661
I thought JJ still did the outline at least, he's just not writing it.

>>43711513
>You just have to have some actual reading comprehension.
Saying it like that sounds awfully passive-aggressive and douchey.

>>43711680
Personally I'm hoping they put their foot in it in the most entertaining way and do something amazing like
'Use stats for Orcs for this gang of rampaging nogs'
Or giving unique stats for playing a black man.

>>43711516
>Strange Aeons
I'm not very well versed in the news, what is this?

>>43711671
Honestly i feel like the number of options and utility given to fighters here might make them Tier 4 straight up.

>>43711812

It's the AP after Hell's Vengeance that deals with the Necronomicon, mental illness, Elder Gods and HP Lovecraft himself (as in the party visits him.)

The book names are actually pretty good.

Alright boys given that this new handbook is godly

Whats the best way i can make a Halfling Dragoon Fighter.

Who were the main writers for the WMH? I need to keep an eye out for them in the future

>>43712195
Warlord with Piercing Thunder.

What? You should of seen this coming.

>>43712299
I knew it was coming and i have just accepted it.

My fav part is weapon master's handbook will probably be banned on most tables.

>>43712308
I'm wondering when the inevitable PFS rulings for it will smack things down

>>43712329
>book just isn't put on the allow list

>>43712308
If anyone bans it they're a fucking retard

i for one can't wait to cut spells out of the air

>>43712151
So it's not actually about Aeons?
Bummer, but also some unbummer.

>>43710812
That Kaguya picture have something strange

>>43711182
Unchained Rogue (Counterfeit Mage/Sanctified Rogue/Eldritch Raider) with the various magic talents, familiar, bookish rogue etc. - basically a stage magician pretending to be a wizard

Ganzi Medium (Spirit Dancer) based around masks and things like African mythos

Vigilante (Zealot - Fey) with Shade of Uskwood, Empower Holy Symbol, Channel Energy and the Command Undead feats as a aristocrat by day/necromancer by night

Fetchling Vigilante (Warlock) with Shadowjump, Shadow Body SLA, and Concealed Casting to have a 6th level shadowcaster in a sense

Dhampir Spiritualist (Fractured Mind/Ectoplasmatist)

Hunter (Divine Hunter/Primal Animal Companion Hunter) think of it as an alternative synthesist in that the powers are drawn from within as opposed to an outsider

Occultist (Battlehost) based around illusion/abjuration technician style character

>>43712151
>deals with mental illness
>Crystal is writing book 2
The irony is tangible

>>43712519
I'm more interested in seeing how they drop the ball and the backlash that would hopefully result than in seeing a good AP. Someone help, I've grown too pessimistic.

>>43711182
>A Magus with one arm, desperately trying to prove that he's just as competent as his fellow adventurers
>A clumsy, forgetful wizard with no sense of personal space, an obsession with magic random and seemingly useless trinkets, and is really good at making lifelike dolls resembling whoever he travels with.
>John the Fighter, a kindhearted former soldier on a quest to find his sister, Susan the Bard, whom he suspects was kidnapped by the affably evil Carl the Wizard. Carl also owes him money.

>>43712151
>(as in the party visits him.)
Wow that's dumb. Is he literally named HP Lovecraft?

>>43712831
We've visited Earth before to go after Rasputin. Why not another moderately famous figure from history?

>>43712831
Yes, it's actually Lovecraft. It's like running into Rasputin in Reign of Winter.

I'm interested in seeing how they handle it, since HP Lovecraft was totally racist.

>>43712831
Yes. Remember, JJ is a huge lovecraft fanboy which means he has no idea how a good cosmic horror story would be made and will probably just fill the books with as much fanservice as he can.

If you want to do cosmic horror, then for starters you don't play a game where a sufficiently trained human can wish Cthulhu to death.

>>43712899
Call of Cthulhu is all about preventing "bad shit" from going down. Pathfinder is all about putting "bad shit" down through armed conflict. This game isn't built for horror, much less cosmic horror, without the GM jumping through hoops, so yeah.

>>43711130
Doesn't that Swashbuckler Archetype just not work? Swashbuckler stuff insists you use a one-handed slashing weapon and your other hand be left open.

>>43712899
>you don't play a game where a sufficiently trained human can wish Cthulhu to death.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu

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>>43711182
Child merchant prince kitsune who bankrolls the party. Seeks to make a name for himself rather than living under his name's legacy.

>>43712956
I had a DM try to run a horror campaign in 3e before. The game quickly evaporated, because he realized it was fucking dumb. I'm sure there's a way to pull it off with the right group, but it requires a more personal approach and is really about challenging the player, and I doubt your friend will really appreciate that time you helped him tackle his repressed family issues by tricking him into re-enacting everything that went wrong in his life. Batman will not appreciate playing a petty criminal in need of a few quick bucks in the good part of town, but when the stars align for Stan the Wizard, he's probably going to try turning into a god instead of panicking about somebody else doing that.

>>43713075
no it doesn't. It requires one handed piercing weapons

thats all

>>43713245
Guess I'm retarded/remembering things wrong.

>>43711056
>Heart Piercing
>Put it on a Bombard
>it *technically* pierced the heart

What is everyone's favorite AP?

>>43713200

How much would he protest if I scratched behind his ears?

>>43713311
Shattered Star

>>43713311

I'm a sucker for Jade Regent, I'm sorry but that one holds significance to me that goes beyond the books themselves.

Junior year of college, finally got into the swing of things, staying for Summer semester with roommates and an easy load, it was effectively the "times were good" AP for me.

>>43713389
Alot.
But he's not going to stop you.
Or admitting to liking it.

>>43711671
I do want tier 1 fighters because for most of the enemies in the fucking bestiary tier 1 is a good thing.

>>43713671
>enemies
>having anything to do with tier 1

Tier 3/4 does fine with enemies

tier 1 has nothing to do with ability to deal with enemies.

>>43711182
I'm already playing my dream character. Order of the Sword Cavalier in Reign of Winter about to take his first level in Chevalier. I'm basically a paladin but not a paladin at the same time.

>a campaign where you play as daemonic harbingers trying to break into the material or some good aligned plane
Would you play it?
Would you DM it?

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>>43710867
>Human
>Dwarven favored class bonus
Excuse me?

>>43713671
>thinking tiers above 3 have ANYTHING to do with combat
They're about how hard you break the narrative and the setting, you silly cunt.

>>43713741
>play
Nah, too complicated trying to balance that shit and not any more fun than a normal campaign.
>DM
double no.

>>43713735
D.. Deus Vult?

>>43713773
Only reason he isn't a paladin is because he worships Aroden and despite knowing he's dead, he still wishes to live up to his ideals and defend humanity and the allies of mankind.

>>43713801
Aroden is LN. You can be a LG worshipper.

>>43713839

Anon... He's saying he can't worship Aroden because he's DEAD.

Dead gods can't grant spells or powers.

Okay, lets say I'm getting rid of the idea of "Planes" as a concept in my setting, as in there isn't a plane of Fire, Earth, Ethereal, Heaven, or Hell etc. What should I do about Knowledge(Planes)? What would be a good Knowledge skill to replace it with?

>>43713861
Anon... You don't need a god to get benefits from worship or to be a paladin.

>>43713869
Knowledge: (Weird Shit)

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>>43713735
>>43713801

Hey anon, who's dating Greta in your campaign?

>>43713767
I'm curious as to why Psions and Wilders are tier 2? I don't see how they could wreck a setting unless they engage in mind switching shenanigans.

How would I stat a Tem if I theoretically wanted one as a familiar?

>>43713839
>>43713861
>>43713876
My entire plan is to eventually become Mythic, get Divine Source, and become a new god to guide mankind as well as be everything Iomedae intended to be.

>>43713887
Nobody yet, although our Inquisitor of Sarenrae has the Rimepelt.

>>43713876

Yeah you do, otherwise Paladins of Asmodeus would be a thing, as would Paladins of Gorum.

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>>43713919
What kind of tem?

>>43713951
That kind of Tem.

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>>43713930
>Nobody yet, although our Inquisitor of Sarenrae has the Rimepelt.

You know, if you had Beast Rider you could mount her.

She'd make a really good mount as well, lots of HP, great offensive abilities, and intelligent.

>>43713939
What?

>>43713919
-10 penalty to Appraise checks

>>43713972

>Cute
>Humans are allergic
>Speech impediment
>Tem go 2 collag
>Proud parents

>>43713973
Too bad my character has a waifu back in Taldor.

>>43713939
No, you don't. It says as much in their abilities.

>otherwise paladins of asmodeus would be a thing
Oh you sweet summer child

>>43713993

If a Paladin doesn't need a god then why aren't there Paladins of Asmodeus?

>>43714031
Because if you DO worship a god, you have to be close to their alignment.

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>>43714018

Please don't tell me you waifu'd the noblewoman you rescue.

>>43713939
>Paladins of Asmodeus would be a thing
Anon...

And no, you really don't. Look it up because I'm too lazy to source it myself, burden of proof or not, but it's been confirmed repeatedly by Paizo staff

>>43713972
Refluffed cat, with a +2 to Reflex saves (or maybe Will saves?)

>>43714018
>>43713973
>LG cavalier
>NE waifu
KEK

>>43714050
>Because if you DO worship a god

>At 20th level, a paladin becomes a conduit for the power of her god. Her DR increases to 10/evil. Whenever she uses smite evil and successfully strikes an evil outsider, the outsider is also subject to a banishment, using her paladin level as the caster level (her weapon and holy symbol automatically count as objects that the subject hates). After the banishment effect and the damage from the attack is resolved, the smite immediately ends. In addition, whenever she channels positive energy or uses lay on hands to heal a creature, she heals the maximum possible amount.

How is any of this supposed to make sense if you don't need to worship a god as a Paladin.

Anyone here have experience with lichdom? Our campaign is starting to get really rough with two of our players having to leave for an extended period due to work reasons which leaves three players to push on. Fortunately we have a decent amount of income from our last adventure, and split three ways instead of five means we have a surplus of resources.

Long story short, cohorts aren't allowed on our table so we cant inflate the numbers which means any one PC dying makes a TPK much more likely. On one hand we can spend that 120k and buy new equipment for everyone. On the other, a lich will never need resurrecting no matter how many times he dies, guarantees at least one member has good odds of surviving many things that would be otherwise lethal, no longer need to sleep so he can commit time to crafting items/standing watch. Obviously, that player will likely never be able to socialize will normal humans ever again and theres the inconvenient fear aura and paralyzing touch that we have to work around. Do you guys think its worth it?

>>43714117
The same way clerics who don't have a god work.

>>43714050
I've been thinking about this, how common are people who don't have levels in a divine class that worship a god of an incompatible alignment?


Like Chaotic Iomadae worships screaming obscenities as they kamikaze themselves at demons.

>>43714060
>>43714109
I never waifu NPCs, my character either already has a waifu, or never gets a waifu.
It's his childhood friend next door to the farm his family worked at. He just couldn't sit back while she might freeze to death.

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>>43714109

>Implying he can't convert her to good through the power of handholding, cute little kisses and missionary sex.

>>43714139
Probably fairly common, not everyone who asks Erastil for help with the crops is LG, NG or LN probably

>>43714149
>implying he would want to do any of that instead of killing her
It's like you don't even purge heretics.

>>43714136
>The same way clerics who don't have a god work.

But... Then what's the point in gods if you don't actually need to worship them?

>>43714087
They should probably get a reach 10 ft attack to, with a fortitude save to not contract hioves.
Also something with disconnecting the face.

>>43714117
Literally only the first sentence has anything to do with a deity and it's by name only, you could very easily put "the true power of Justice" there.

>>43714183
Access to the religion's organizational aspect.

>>43714183
They have cool unique domains, can grant spells early to certain classes, and sometimes intervene in real life. Plus they're powerful and scary as fuck.

If you mean mechanically, none whatsoever. Flavorwise, they're often more personal than just "I believe in X ideals".

A hotdog is not a burrito, captcha.

>>43714183
Depends on the setting man but this has been a thing since 3.5
>As their powers are influenced by their faith, all clerics must focus their worship upon a divine source. While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction. (Work with your GM if you prefer this path to selecting a specific deity.)

Paladins have been god-free for a lot longer than they've been god-enabled. Forgotten Realms was the first setting to introduce god-required paladins, and its cancer spread to other parts of the game's legacy, but paladins have traditionally achieved their power through righteousness alone.

The trouble in PF is while the CRB has god-free paladins and indeed suggests that most are god-free, Golarion doesn't.

Except PF has just one setting.

The confusion is understandable but could have been avoided.

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>>43714143

That's cool, but I guess the important question now to ask is if she's cute.

>>43714117
The first sentence is fluff. Usually a paladin is empowered by their god, and becomes a conduit for their god. You don't assume the paladin has to be a woman because it says her do you?

>>43714299
>You don't assume the paladin has to be a woman because it says her do you?

Y-Yes, it's why I've always played my Paladins as women.

>>43714308
Seriously? The pronouns in the class writeups are just that way to match their iconics, do you actually follow what all of them say?

>>43714216
>>43714211
>>43714190

Wait, if Clerics and Paladins don't need to have deities then why isn't divine magic allowed in Rahadoum?

I mean, you're saying that divine magic isn't divine here, so it shouldn't ping.

>>43714347
>are just that way to match their iconics
You know, I never even realized this.

>>43714347
>do you actually follow what all of them say?

... I've always played my Wizards as gay men.

>>43713861
>>43713876
The actual note is that it says in Gods and Magic that people who claim to have powers granted by Aroden are using some other means to gain their powers because Aroden is too dead to grant them.

>>43714050
>>43714031
Pre-anti-paladin rules, Paladins can worship a god of any alignment and retain their LG and powers as long as they act in accordance to the god's creed/portfolio. Yes, this includes CE. For example, a Paladin of Rovagug sows chaos and destruction and wages war habitually. Yes, this causes an alignment shift to CE pretty hard. However, Rovagug atones for the Paladin's sins because the Paladin is acting in accordance to their faith, causing his alignment to become LG again. It's fucked up and odd, so I just rule that a Paladin's alignment is equal to their deity's because there's no reason to have clerics of all gods but Paladins and Anti-Paladins of some. Good and LN are Paladins, Evil and CN are Anti-Paladins and then TN gets to choose which template.

>>43714374
I always thought if you didn't worship a god, your divine magic still comes from a divine being or place, you're just not specifying exactly who or where.

>>43714395
Ezren isn't actually gay, but good for you.

>>43714374
Because muh atheism. That's literally it, Golarion is 98% garbage.

>>43714374
See >>43714272

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>>43714374
>I mean, you're saying that divine magic isn't divine here, so it shouldn't ping.

Is arcane magic arcane?

Are Witches actually clerics?

Is Rovagug the hero we deserve?

>>43711454
does anyone have a link to these new books i need them in my life and i think the last book I had got hold of was unchained and the tech guide.

>>43714445
>is Based God Rovagug the hero we deserve
Do you even need to ask that?
Common knowledge, man.

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>>43714420
>Because muh atheism. That's literally it, Golarion is 98% garbage.

How would you fix Rahadoum?

In fact, let's expand this to the entire Inner Sea for anyone wild enough to try this.

How would you turn the Inner Sea into a legitimately fascinating setting?

>>43714495
I don't know shit about inner sea, but make a worldwound for all the planes
it becomes a warground for outsiders

>>43714588
That's boring, though.

>>43714495
Every bad ending happens all at once, but the powers that try to take over the world are fighting each other.

Humanity and goodness are slowly bleeding out or have retreated to the various parts of the world. Communities that come together are generally neutral-evil, and those who are good just don't make it.

>>43714616
IS there any particular reason for good failing or just generic edginess?

>>43714616
>Humanity and goodness are slowly bleeding out or have retreated to the various parts of the world. Communities that come together are generally neutral-evil, and those who are good just don't make it.

Didn't the Qlippoth try to invade Tian Xia and a host of angels fought them back?

Why wouldn't the good outsiders help?

>>43714645
Cause good has to lose for bad endings to happen.

>>43714684
So that's a no. Fuck off until you can write something decent.

In my game yesterday we had the most intense fight in a long time.
>Party full of initiators
>They face two vampires
>Two of our party fail will saves and switch sides, it's now two vampires, a bushi warlord, and a harbinger vs a zealot, a warder, a fighter, and a cohort cleric
>The two players who switched sides think 'eh why not' and genuinely try their hardest to kill the party

>Warlord gets surprise round for suddenly turning, and wins initiative, and thus has enough time to completely stab the cleric into negatives before anyone else can move
>Cleric is my cohort, so my zealot gets really mad and forgets about holding back with nonlethal, tries to stab the warlord down
>Meanwhile fighter vs harbinger; the fighter isn't awful because GM merged all TWF feats into one so her FRA damage is potent, but she can barely hit the harbinger because they keep countering with that 'roll stealth against enemy perception and teleport if you win' maneuver

>While this goes on, the warder tries to fight the actual vampires, and one of them keeps trying to death knell the cleric, who somehow is managing to repeatedly make the Will saves
>Eventually the three first face-offs ended: Warlord is now bleeding out on the ground, fighter is unconscious, and one vampire is dead. Cleric still barely hanging on. Zealot is badly wounded because despite high AC, I've been taking damage off all my allies through the collective.

>My reach is 20ft because I stacked spear/aegis 3/protection zealot, so the harbinger can't approach me without taking an AoO
>mfw they take out a necklace of fireballs and throw one of the beads at me

(Cont)

>>43714684

Not true, bad just has to win for a bad ending.

>>43714615
Imagine a world filled with smatters of outsider things, though.

Towns who punish heinous criminals by pushing them into pits of cacodaemons.
Wandering Archon hero's who fight for justice.
Mass cult wars between the followers of Rovagug and Asmodeus.
Entire tracts of land being warped by bands of proteans.
Rare castles of peace forged by Axiomites.

>>43714134
There's the clone spell, a level 8 spell. Cut off your hand, wait between 2-8 months for a body to be grown that your soul automatically shunts to when you die. The scroll will only cost 4k for a wizard one or 4.2k for the sorcerer one, and be a 28 DC for Spellcraft or UMD. Remember you'll need a 26 int for spellcraft for the wizard or 26 cha for UMD on the sorc, or else you'll need a second roll to succeed. If you aren't afraid of mishaps and have money to blow just keep trying and wait for however long your 2d4 roll to make your spare body lasts.

When you die you are automatically resurrected in your new body with the negative levels you already had and the two negative levels from being resurrected. All your equipment will remain on your dead bodies. A wizard should have a spare book with whatever he needs to get back to the party if someone survives the encounter. Always have a way for whoever died to have a way to get back if it's not the wizard who died. If your souls aren't able to return your clone won't revive, keep that in mind. I'll look up other things that help, but if you have a caster buddy willing to spend some time to cast the spell and you don't die before the clone spell finishes you'll only die of old age.

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>>43714710

Aren't aasimar notably good at fighting against evil? I wonder how the good outsiders would encourage more births.

What I'm thinking of would just create half-celestials, now that I think of it.

>>43714708
>I make the save and avoid all damage because of Aegis evasion, but the cleric and warlord are both in the area and helpless, and automatically fail
>Warlord instantly dies
>I expend psionic focus to halve the damage to cleric, keeping her 1 damage away from death
>Next turn: "Vampire attack warder, and then... casts quickened Death Knell."
>What
>Cleric, after making saves to stay on the brink of life for four rounds, finally dies

>'That's it, no mercy against anyone now'
>After a number of failed charges and AoOs against each other, I go to skewer the harbinger, they've expended their stealth teleport counter so I use Inevitable Strike to make my attack roll too high for them to roll against
>Solidly deal enough damage to send them well into the negatives
>But then: "I use 'mark of retribution'. I roll spellcraft and then you take equal damage to me."
>What the hell, since when have you had tha-
>We both take 30 damage
>Double KO
>Only Warder and Vampire left standing
>Warder hits the vampire a bit harder and the vampire flees
>Battle over
>And now nobody trusts each other ever again

tl;dr initiator vs initiator fights are crazy.

>>43713951
Overrated game? I like Tobyfox's music for Homestuck so I'm tempted to try it.

>>43714780
They just fucked a whole lot of mortals after that one Tian Xia invasion.

>>43714821
It's actually really good.
Characters are great, gameplay is great, story is great, lore is pretty bullshit.

>>43714755
We are only lvl 13 unfortunately. Worse yet, the party cleric will be one of those who will be absent for a prolonged period.

>>43714829

After seeing what the Azata look like, I wouldn't blame them.

>>43714821
I love the game for the characters and story but the gameplay is easy by bullet hell standards.

>>43714821
Characters are great, story is cool if you're okay with meta stuff, everything else is shit-tier to mediocre. Characters really carry the game.

>>43714842
Heavily overrating it.

>>43714821
The music is fucking great, the game's fun and funny, the best parts are the endings by far. It's overrated, yes, but it's still a good game.

Does anyone have a Marksman homebrew that's like the Pathwalker?

>>43711182
>Dhampir Inquisitor of Asmodeus who wears his Chelish upbringing proudly, but never mentions his vampiric heritage unless questioned about it. Known to have an appreciation for overly tall hats. 21 years old.

>Skinwalker Bloodrager desperately seeking means of becoming human, even knowing that without his racial powers he'll never find someone who can fix his being two kinds of abomination. Mid-to-late 20's, age-wise.

>Sylph Sorceress who, despite being an ultimately good-natured and even heroic woman, believes her own soul to be forfeit to the Plane of Air - and thus, Hsurha. Every goblin, bandit, and ogre slain by her lightning is a sacrifice. Oldest member of the party at the age of 35, and genuinely terrible at relating with people younger than herself.

>Suli Brawler punching her way through a crisis of faith. Late teens, age-wise.

>Taldan ??? (likely a martial) who, as a youth, went adventuring with his twin sister, only for the pair to be possessed by the ghosts of two lovers. Years later, he was able to wrest back control of his body long enough to get exorcised, and he now seeks to put an end to the spurned bride who still wears his sister's face.

>>43714968
>Taldan ??? (likely a martial) who, as a youth, went adventuring with his twin sister, only for the pair to be possessed by the ghosts of two lovers. Years later, he was able to wrest back control of his body long enough to get exorcised, and he now seeks to put an end to the spurned bride who still wears his sister's face.

Brawler? Must have gotten a lot of experience wrestling his sister.

>>43715010
Kinky

>>43714272
So in Golarion Paladins have to worship a god?

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>>43715096
As far as I am aware, yes. However, I am not the absolute best person to ask about this; my sources are secondhand. Anon(s) can likely clarify better.

That in mind if you reference your CRB on paladins you'll note the language in their descrip talking about god-optional-ness.

>>43715096
Pretty sure JJ has said no they don't a few times in that big questions thread of his.

When I gain a level is my exp set down to 0 or do I keep accumulating exp towards the next level?

>>43714855
>the gameplay is easy by bullet hell standards.
Oh... it's a bullet hell game?

>>43715131
Not exactly, but most fights have you dodging projectiles in between your turns. It's more of a RPG with that exception.

>>43715131
When it's the enemy's turn it's a bullet hell. When it's your turn you can choose to do an action, attack the enemy, use an item, or give it mercy. You need to do certain actions to be merciful. If you attack you're a fucking cunt.

>>43715131
It's an RPG where enemies stack by shooting bullets at a heart.
Gameplay changes include having to platform over projectiles as a blue heart.

>>43714109
How could you tell that his waifu was evil because she is from Taldor? Is there a specific NPC I should know about? Or do you mean the Undertale monster?

>>43715131
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RL6JcEHw2U
Just watch this.

>>43715166
I mean Greta the RoW winter wolf.

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>>43715010
Nah, he should go Barbarian.

>enter Rage
>"GIVE HER BACK, DEGENERATE"
>"Seriously? You banish my darling to gods-know-where and now you're coming for me, too? What's your problem with love?"
>"DOES THE WORD 'CONSENT' MEAN NOTHING TO YOU!?"
>"Look, we needed bodies, alright? It's no big deal."
>"I REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED WHILE YOUR BOY TOY WORE ME LIKE A MEAT SUIT. EVERYTHING. YOU TWO MAKE ME SICK IN SO MANY WAYS, I WOULD HAVE TO INVENT A NEW LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE HOW BADLY YOU RUINED BOTH OUR LIVES, AND THEN ANOTHER ONE FOR HOW MUCH I HATE YOU."
>"Geez, calm down. We were just doing as lovers do-"
>"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

>>43715190
This isn't, like, a huge spoiler of a boss fight that will ruin the game for me?

Thanks for the reviews guys.

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>>43715221
>not boning your sister

>>43715248
No.
In fact, he's only the second.
The first is a bigger spoiler, Papyrus is just a Skelly with a big heart.

>>43715221
I see you put a point in Linguistics to learn how to speak Grippli.

>>43715270
And good theme/battle music

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>>43715255
>incest
>letting ghosts use your body
>not sending them off to their eternal fate

>>43715275
>Grippli is just Morse code but with REEEE sounds

>>43715288
Why not both?
>im sorry, i remember everything that happened but i couldnt control my body
>don't worry big brother
>i remember everything too

>>43715323

The frightening thing is brother-sister fucking isn't too far-fetched as far as Taldor noble courts are concerned.

>>43715323
Maybe because Taldor isn't /d/ and generally speaking the vast majority of people do not see engaging in carnal relations with one's kin (with or without the influence of incorporeal entities) as a good thing?

>>43714708
I ran a game last week that also involved a party of initiators against a vampire, although the vamp isn't the focus.
>The Polymath shoots the vampire mid speech
>She has 4 Adamantine Cobras and commands them to attack him
>Everyone in the party struggles to hit these things
>Polymath get bit all over
>Instead of the regular poison, it has a paralysis poison
>The fight ends and the party notices the Polymath with his eyes open, not moving on the floor, bloody and covered in snake bites.
>Heal Checks
>Everyone has dumped WIS and has no points in Heal
>Everyone rolls under 2
>Warder: "Well shit... he's dead."
>Paladin: "We should bury him, out of respect."
>Start carrying him outside to bury him
>Finally had to get an NPC to try a Heal check, otherwise they would have buried him
>All the players, especially the Polymath player are laughing about it

>>43715341
>Nobility in general
>not being hedonists of the worst kind

You seem to think this reflects something of the general character of the Taldan people.

How do you think the planes look like, visually? They tell you what's in them, but not hoe they look like, so how do you see them?

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>the demons will most likely never be pushed out of the abyss for good
>the Qlippoth will never have their shithole back
>they will never once again swim through the frozen waters and pus
>they will never walk across the windswept wastes and relish the sight of their corrupted surroundings

Hey DSP, is Ssalarn around? Had some questions on Akasha. Mostly, how he would value things like an extra Veil known or point of Essence for the purpose of Full Class Bonuses.

>>43715549
The sexy race always wins.

>>43713761
Racial Heritage, my level 1 feat.

>the Abyss is discovered to have a finite number of layers
What is the final, bottom layer like?

>>43715694
>What is the final, bottom layer like?

Exactly like the top layer.

It's like pie.

>>43715694
Earth.

>>43715694
It opens out to the garbage can behind Paizo HQ

>>43715694
A second version of Golarion, called Noiralog.

>>43715722
>Not the front door

>>43715694
It wraps back around to the bottom layer of Hell
oh shiiii

>>43715694
A cold, black, empty wasteland that the light of creation, life, and goodness cannot pierce. Only the most horrible of Qlippoth dwell here, formed of pure primordial evil.
The jewish Sheol, essentially.

>>43713767
I think destroying the setting and the narrative is exactly what a party of level 10ish characters SHOULD do. Beyond 10, the game should be extraplanar.

>>43710867
>at level 5 I have a +4 int headband
No, you defninitely don't.

>>43715805
Good thing no one cares what you think.

>>43714845
At a level where the 120k cost of a phylactery is viable, so is finding someone to cast spells for you. For three people the cost of not dying is 360k plus what you need to do to protect your phylactery. A decent base where you keep your clone bodies in a major city with just one wizard who is willing to cast 3 ten minute spells for you isn't too big a deal. Getting him to help you with your equipment is a different issue, but the three of you can pool your money for his services and spend much less to protect all three of you compared to one of you attempting lichdom.

Also if you can't get a spellcaster to do these things for you or do them yourself you aren't going to become a lich. The ceremony to become a lich is a level 9 ritual with a bunch of skillchecks that gets easier the more people you have willing to tank 20d6 damage for being near you. If you're not someone who expects to reach level 6 arcane spells anytime soon becoming a lich isn't viable.

I mean we had a joke a few threads earlier that a level 1 fighter with a lot of money could easily become a lich with enough helpers. Realistically you aren't going to age 400 years to increase your casting scores. Contingency spells to teleport your bodies when you reach a certain hp score to a friendly cleric is easier. Greater teleport is a level 7 spell (level 13 wizard), regular is 5 and contingency is 6 (level 11 wizard), so you have many avenues to success. Having a single high level npc you bribe with magical items every time they help you out should be possible.

>>43715851
Why not? It only costs 7.6k for him to craft (because spark of creation), he can afford that since he IS a crafter. The rest of his gear won't be great, but he can afford a resistance cloak as well and a con belt, then he's basically set.

I don't see the problem.

>>43715784
The 10 most powerful Qlippoth dwell there. Thamiel, Chaigidiel, Sathariel, Gamchicoth, Golachab, Thagirion, Herab Serapnel, Samael, Gamaliel and Nehemoth. Together they are known as the Sitra Achra.

>>43715805

Level 10 is, canonically, the level of generals, grand chieftains and governors.

Level 18 is when you get into Linnorm Kings and world-changing events.

>>43715910
Neat, where is this information found. I want to read through all of it.

>>43715910
Don't forget their leader, Herpaderpa.

>>43715694
Salaphiel, the seventh layer of Heaven

Does anyone have a scan of that page about weapon creation from the weapon master's handbook?

>>43715911
Can someone explain to me exactly what a Linnorm King is?

>>43715931
I made that up, those names are actually the 10 Qlippoth is Kabbalah.

>>43715888
At level 5 you have 10,500 gold. You can't spend more than half your gold pieces on one item. It's against the rules.

The original jewish Qlipoth were like the seven sins, only there's ten, right?
Or am I getting it all wrong?

>>43715975

A Linnorm King is a leader of the Ulfen people who gained the title "King" by slaying a Linnorm (a primordial dragon) in one on one combat.

The greatest of the Linnorm Kings is Sveinn Blood-Eagle, a level 18 Barbarian.

>>43715978
>You can't spend more than half your gold pieces on one item.
Really? I've never actually seen this rule before, where is it?

>>43715975
It's someone who has become a king by killing a linnorm in the Land of the Linnorm Kings

>>43715986
They were the shells of the sephiroth. Not quite the opposite. They were more spiritual in nature than the 7 sins..

>>43716033
And what's the Sephiroth?
I'm not very familiar with Judaism.

>>43716017
I found it, that's for creating a character past level 1. If he leveled up from 1 then it's fine. It's about spending starting wealth, not wealth attained.

>>43716017

Was a rule in 3.5. Not in PF. Was also a rule about /starting/ items; you could spend all you wanted once the game began.

>>43716053
The Sephiroth are the 10 (although there are 11 spheres) emanations through which Ein Sof (The infinite) reveals himself and continuously creates both the physical realm and the chain of higher metaphysical realms.

>>43716102
Unless it's a rule in PF too and I've missed it multiple times on the SRD.

>>43716017
Core rule book, page 400, table 12-4.

If he leveled up from level 1, I highly doubt he has 7.6 k in unspent gold by level 5 unless he literally didn't by anything levels 3-4 or his GM is running a high-treasure campaign.

>>43716102
Wrong.

>>43716120
So they're God's super chakra, or is that also wrong?

>>43716140

Even if he didn't, he could start the game and camp out for 8 days if he wanted, plot willing.

>>43716156
What good would that do? I don't follow.

>>43716148
No that describes it rather well. It's basically the aspects through which God shapes the univers.

>>43716140
>I highly doubt he has 7.6 k in unspent gold by level 5 unless he literally didn't by anything levels 3-4
Likely he made a +2 headband then upgraded it? Or he thought ahead and saved up for his big purchase. Hell, I'll penny pinched in games before. It really doesn't seem that unrealistic.

>>43716171
Start the game without spending his money then make it once he is in game, theoretically.

>>43716185
>Likely he made a +2 headband then upgraded it?
What are the rules for upgrading wondrous items? I didn't think that was possible.

It might not be unrealistic to be running around at level 4-and-change with only 500 gold in gear, but it seems more likely to me that he just goofed up and didn't know one of this complicated game's many rules.

>>43716171
>Start game with 10.5k as starting wealth
>Take crafting feat
>Buy 2.9k worth of items
>Game starts, have 7.6k on hand
>Craft for 16 days (my bad, meant that) while the party waits around because going on adventures while the wizard is crafting is a bad idea

Now you have your headband, while following the rules for starting characters.

>PFG generally likes Akasha, Psionics, Path of War initiating, and Spheres of Power
>What if a class that can do all of them in a limited fashion

>Medium BAB
>Good Will Save
>Pick between Fort and Ref at 1st level, it is Good too, cannot be changed later
>1st level, gain initiating, with maneuvers known learned about as fast as a War Soul of half your level, minimum 1.
>2nd level, gain low casting, except spell point pool is halved, and gain 2 talents.
>3rd level, gain Veils known and shaped as a Daevic, but with halved Essence (minimum 1).
>4th level, gain manifesting as a Gifted Blade, with halved PP from class levels.
>5th level, gain a choice of a synergy ability that affords some crossover ability between the resources, like spending PP for temporary Essence, taking Essence burn to grant temporary PP, basically you just pick two of your four resources and gain a limited ability to use one to power or improve the other. Synergy abilities involving initiating grant additional maneuver recovery methods, etc.
>6-9 improves resources further, 10th grants more synergy, etc. Every 5 levels goes that way.
>If you pick a resource multiple times for a synergy ability, that resource gains a more rapid progression. For example, if you pick manifesting at 5th and 10th, PP progression goes to normal for a Gifted Blade, and if you pick it at 15th as well, it improves to Psychic Warrior progression, and if you grab it again at 20th you upgrade to Egoist Psion, etc.
>Because you have four resources and only four synergy abilities, you will ultimately miss two connections at 20th level, making which resources you connect vitalto your role in the party; specialization improves your abilities in one area, but limits versatility.

The order by which you gain resources could probably be rearranged, if not something you pick as a player, and what the synergy abilities specifically do besides improve progressions could do with some fleshing out, but I think it's neat.

>>43716183
I think I get it now.
The Qlippoth are essentially everything in the way of getting closer to God then, right?

>>43716214
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items

ctrl+f 'upgrading'

>>43716214
>It might not be unrealistic to be running around at level 4-and-change with only 500 gold in gear

Literally how. This has never happened to me. Unless they spent nearly ALL of their money on consumables and non magic items (not gear items, just random shit). Unless the GM is not following WBL rules.

>What are the rules for upgrading wondrous items? I didn't think that was possible.
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items
Upgrading magic items is about halfway down the page and explains, you pay the difference. With that it seems very likely he could have done that.

>>43716183
Not him, but could you explain to me why they would name a silver-haired psychopath after that? I'm guessing it was Hojo being a snarky bastard about how Sephi will be "the means by which JENOVA will reveal her will", or is that being too meta?

>>43716239
Yep. Spiritual corruptions and impurities.

>>43715911
A list of people who enact large changes in the setting, proving my point. The lives of those level 10s affect thousands of people, often more. Golarion as a pre-written setting is very large and consists of many countries, but a lot of homebrew settings focus on just a few countries and people like that literally do reshape the setting at a whim.

Yes, on Golarion level 10 doesn't mean much because golarion is huge, Avistan as a continent is ridiculously filled with content. But for most settings, the people you described ARE setting makers and setting breakers.

For adventurers, it just makes sense to send them on planar adventures to better challenge them, rather than have them have very little challenge in the world outside of the big villains.

>>43716301
>For adventurers, it just makes sense to send them on planar adventures to better challenge them, rather than have them have very little challenge in the world outside of the big villains.
It's semantic, but the Not-Underdark is a fantastic place to face higher degrees of challenges on the Material.

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>>43716120
>>43716183
So what does this thing have to do with that?

>>43716223
I see. That works, but I wouldn't allow it as GM as it is clearly against the intention of the rule, which talks about game balance in the same paragraph.

>>43716247
Still seems kind of unlikely that he would have the 5.7k by level 5 needed to upgrade it.

>>43716352
That's in the shape of the sephiroth "graph".

>>43716290
>>43716352
Japs have no idea about kabbalah but like the hammy big words.

>>43715576
He isn't at the moment, but I can answer most questions you might have. Fire away with the full details.

>>43716355
>Still seems kind of unlikely that he would have the 5.7k by level 5 needed to upgrade it.
Why? His total gold is gonna be 10.5. What else is he gonna spend it on? Cloak of Resistance doesn't cost that much. Honestly at that level headbands are hyper prioritized for casters. I've scrounged enough gold by that level as well. I don't see the problem.

Just because you're bad with money in game, or your GM doesn't follow WBL doesn't mean it happens to everyone.

>>43715910
This is a great idea for a mythic campaign.
These guys are starting to get uppity, and if they manage to climb out of the abyss, everything ever dies, only to be replaced with Qlippoth corruption.
Everything is banding together together to stop them, even the demons are lending a hand to the party.
You need to go down to the bottom if the Abyss and kill them before they kill you.

It would be a great final adventure.

>>43716420

They have no idea what they're doing but it's honestly kind of fun to see other cultures try to work with stuff from your culture.

Like the Japanese and those outrageously long noses on portraits for Westerners during the Perry thing.

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>>43713311
Carrion Crown, for sure. Rise of the Runelords is a close second.

>>43716420
So in the end, it's not really any different than when we take elements from their mythology, history, or religion and use the symbolism or names because they seem cool, but do a crude job of it because we don't really understand it?

>>43715968
I'll take that as a no then..?

>>43716493
You really don't want to even bother with it, man. Out of everything in the book, that's the worst part by far.

>>43716493
Check the threads from the last like, two weeks.

Someone asks almost every day.

>>43716448
Yup, although some of the Qliphoth spheres are very abstract, so one probably should read up on the spheres for keeping the big 10 thematic to the sphere they represent.
But yeah sounds like fun.

>>43716472
Yup.

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>>43716466
> Portraying the fighter as having overcome the dragon.

I am not surprised, yet I am still angry.

>>43716528
>you don't truly fight Nehemoth
>he's just this black shadow of a massive cockroach
>attacks hurt him, but he can't hurt you
>he can only make you hurt eachother

>>43716424
PsyBomb, will DSP ever release Unchained-compatible content, like alternate multiclassing for the various released classes?

>>43716431
>His total gold is gonna be 10.5.
>What else is he gonna spend it on?
Are you even paying attention to the conversation? We are operating under the premise that he started the game at level 1 and then leveled up. He is gonna spend it on his other gear. I highly doubt he kept 1k gold in his pocket at level 4 to save up so he could splurge at level 5. That's the kind of thing people mention in their builds, isn't it?

>Just because you're bad with money in game, or your GM doesn't follow WBL doesn't mean it happens to everyone.
Wow you're fucking stupid, dismissing other people's arguments with "well you just must be bad." Fuck you. Like you actually think he was just saving gold for it. You're playing devil's advocate and you bloody well know it.

>>43716571
>complain when fighters don't get cool stuff
>complain when fighters are shown doing cool stuff
Ok. How about you fuck off and take your caster supremacy with you?

>>43716571
>he hasn't read the new handbook
My friend

Fighters are Tier 4.

>>43716571
It's possible, but not for that shitty Iconic fighter. Also, see >>43716599 as well.

>>43716607
you're talking to the guy who helped put together a book that makes martials not suck, dude.

>>43716340
Thats a good point, but to a certain extent i guess its no different than extraplanar. The idea is to send them away from the "normal" world. You could also send them to a part of the setting where only giants and dragons live or whatever. Above level 10, adventurers just cant live in the same part of the setting unless they are trying to take it over or the villain is really active.

A lot of DMs dont have a big active BBEG constantly trying to fuck with the party.

>>43716599
Not a dev, but I have an old Doc for converting Monks archetypes to Unchained, though I can't remember if I added in the new Initiator Monk yet.

>>43716632
Then why is he crying about martials not sucking?

>>43716645
I more meant alternative multiclassing for Psions, Daevics, etc.

>>43716650
He isn't crying about martials not sucking, he's crying about how they're PORTRAYED as not sucking, but the actual mechanics for them are fucking ass and aren't anywhere NEAR what they're said to be able to do.

Fast Zombie Dragons are insane considering the absolutely tiny cost to the caster. A huge dragon gets 8 attacks on a full attack, 9 with haste. In a desecrate it gets 165 HP, retains flight.

Why haven't I been raising undead sooner?!

>>43716688
TIER
FOUR

>>43716688
BITCH FIGHTERS TIER 4 NOW

WE MADE IT.

>>43716643
>Above level 10, adventurers just cant live in the same part of the setting unless they are trying to take it over or the villain is really active.
Or they can just fight giants or something

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>>43716650
See: >>43716688

And to expand further, more than a decade of fucking salt about portraying straight-classed fighters as leaders or any of the other bajillion fucking roles and archetypes they can't fulfill. Crack open a copy of Emerald Spire sometime and look at the stats of the supposed commander of the Hellknights. Fuck, Paizo published a king whose only skill ranks are in Survival, Climb, and Swim.

I get.

VERY UPSET.

At "tell not show" qualities in RPG NPCs, especially when eventually PC action will force a 'show' with nothing to back it up. It angers me so much because decent standards ARE NOT HARD TO HAVE, and shit like that bit of art perpetuates the lack of common understanding that continues to cause problems in the fanbase.

TL;DR Gareth wanted Fighters to match their fluff and has never stopped being fucking enraged that they don't.

>>43716711
>>43716726
Wait for PFS to make it illegal and retarded DMs to follow suit.

>>43716528
Thank you for telling us all this Kabbalah stuff. You got me to briefly fly through the wiki, and right now I'm having fun looking at it. Especially since I enjoy learning more about religions and seeing similarities thy have with my own.

If its not a bother, could you answer a minor question? I'm looking at the last three Sephira, and thier basic definitions. I have some idea, but could you explain a bit about the theological/cosmological implications of Hod, Yesod, and Malkuth? I plan on using this idea for a homebrew setting, and I want to get a better understanding before I horribly ape it.

>>43716643
Batman has no problems staying in his city.

>>43716711
POSSIBLE tier 4, assuming high levels of optimization, that those options are allowed, and assuming they don't get nerfed, and ALSO assuming that you actually put things together correctly.

Or you could play a Path of War class, or any of the archetypes of normal classes with initiating that get the endorsed 9th level maneuvers, and just be, well, better. In every way. All of them.

>>43716740
>tl;dr: Autism
Ok

>>43716736

Or working for nobility.

Or single-handedly defending villages from Orcs.

Or becoming Bandit Lords.

Or rooting out demon/devil activity.

Golarion is FULL of things for level 10s to do.

>>43716749
>playing pfs
>playing with kek DMs

we made it fuck you

>>43716599
Possibly! I know I have doodles in the backs of notebooks, things like a Vitalist archetype using the Wounds system, skill unlocks for Autohypnosis, revisions of some classes we could have done better... but that will wait until we get more of the current projects out of the way.

Please don't ask to see them yet, they are NOT up to standards at the moment and won't be until I get a lot more time to play with. Be content with the knowledge that yes, we have thoughts Along those lines

>>43716772

There's a couple archetypes that I think really shouldn't get 9ths. Mainly aegis, because they can change their maneuvers up whenever the fuck they want. Can we get DSP devs in here to discuss this endorsement?

The other one was the alchemist one, since they kept all their class features intact for it.

>>43716772
some dms are still fucking tards about 3pp for no reason (otherwise i'd be an aegis like all the time forever)

So some of us are stuck with Paizo only. And i'm gonna fully say that with these feats, and yes, optimized to use them well, FIGHTERS are tier 4, well archetyped fighters? Probably high tier 4.

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>>43716783
...Yes, I've said as much before. Point blank, in fact. If this was news to you then I'm sorry the memo wasn't distributed better.

>>43716766
Batman is also a level 10 vigilante in a city where level 10 bosses keep showing up or showing back up because he doesn't kill them.

>>43716783
It's not autism to be annoyed that a game portrays what are assumed to be "iconic" versions of characters that proceed to do things that they wouldn't actually be able to do in-game. That's some Bethesda-level bullshit, even worse because it's ridiculously-easy to fix it yourself and see that something cool COULD have been done.

... Okay, actually, exactly like Bethesda.

>>43716711
>>43716726
Does it really bring fighters all the way up to T4, without giving casters a bunch of new spells and stuff? I don't really care to read through all of the pages, could someone just like... break it down, give me the abridged version of what's good in the book and why it's good?

>>43716842
See >>43716833

But that actually is news, I was just using it as a buzzword. Apologies, then, I guess.

>>43716853
Literally nothing to do with casters. Fighters get shitloads of new options, crossbows buffed, they can now parry ranged attacks and spells.

>>43716831

Any particular reason not to go Eldritch Guardian/Mutation Warrior? Armor Training's not THAT great, Guardian's got better abilities and class skills, and as long as you keep your Weapon Training you should be fine with the new nice things for Mr. Fighter.

Although I am pleased as fuck with this book. We need more of this and less "Here's another forty pages of spells."

>>43716853
Well for once...NO SPELLS AND NO CASTER ARCHETYPES!

>>43716711
>>43716726
Am i the only one who sees Tier 4 as still being out of reach of the fighter? I mean its still completely shut down in its own role by even the most basic magic and a bunch of skills certainly hasn't expanded its versatility.

Compared to a Barbarian, a Cavalier, a Ranger, or anything like that its still leagues behind. +1 to your CMD means jack shit.

I know myrmidon fixes a lot of what I'm complaining about, but Myrmidon is third party and still even with all of this strictly inferior to actually just playing a third party class from the get go rather than tacking that archetype onto lore warden etc. Also fuck all the lore warden praise, trading down to light armor is a terrible tradeoff unless you plan to multiclass to get the armor back.

>>43716853
Yes.

Feats that allow fighters to cut spells out of the air, or get their BAB to replace the ranks in 2 skills, fighting styles, all sorts of new utility for fighters. UTILITY MAN. so much utility.

Also my new favorite enchantment, quaking, which allows you to trip enemies in a 5ft radius, 10ft cone, or 20ft line, by slamming your hammer against the ground.

>>43716877
... Because you don't want to? Plenty of the other archetypes are probably more viable to play with these changes

>>43716887
>a basic spell shuts the fighter down

Not when he slashes it out of the fucking air.

>>43716887
Good luck convincing /pfg/ of that, they were convinced Psychic was TIER ZERO until it actually came out.

>>43716873
>parry ranged attacks and spells

You mean like how they can already with Path of War?

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>>43716873
Eh, it's a thing. There's no need to apologize. I'm fairly certain holding decade-long grudges over fictional portrayals of equally fictional game classes is not normal.

In any event, evening /pfg/.

>>43716820
Any initiator should be able to access 9ths. They aren't like spells, it doesn't really WORK if it just goes 1-6.

>>43716853
Subsystem for people with Fighter Training to get new abilities like swinging your sword to Parry spells and stuff. Also Crossbow shenanigans. Basically it's Time: Uber-lite edition. Granted I personally probably still use a Myrmidon, but the options are nice

>>43716918
How's that relevant? Anon asked what was in the book.

>>43716918
No one's trying to make this an argument of "PoW is obsolete now", man, what's your deal.

>>43716925
I disagree there. The aegis has ridiculous access to almost every subsystem DSP has, and it's one of the strongest DSP classes with just the 1-6.

>>43716918
Yeah, but now they can do it in 1pp too. And in PoW, you get the Myrmidon fighter adding extra AoOs so you can parry a shit-ton of attacks and spells per round in addition to your counter.

>>43716766
That's a load. Batman leaves Gotham all the damned time.

>>43716643
>A lot of DMs dont have a big active BBEG constantly trying to fuck with the party.
Good DMs don't have any singular enemies or villains. A believable, immersive setting has a diverse array of factions with goals and motivations, and perhaps some of those factions have a singular leader, and perhaps they don't - it's what their goals are that cause them to be aligned for or against the party, for prolonged periods of time or not.

Aeons are the funniest and yet also worst faction for a party to interact with precisely because they're unpredictable and have no clear and understandable (by non-Aeons) motivations to contend with.

Even if a faction has somewhat vague or unclear motivations, they still exist - and many evil factions will intentionally obscure or obfuscate what theirs are to make furthering them easier.

One of my favorite adventures I've ever run was one that was, at face value, absolutely generic and vanilla, but in reality beset by intense conspiracy by almost everyone the party met.

>>43716736
I literally said that in the post you are replying to.
>>43716785
Nobility aren't fighting level 10 threats, nobility are fighting the commoners or each other.
Parties are not single. That kind of thing is a neat solo adventure though and anything a guy can do on his own consistently isnt much of a challenge.

By this point you aren't bandits, you are powerful enough you would be a full fledged rebel and a threat to the authority of the region you are acting in.

Demons/Devils are extraplanar. You are just bringing the mountain to muhammed rather than muhammed to the mountain.

>>43716921
Evening, Gareth. How's it going tonight?

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I rolled up a barbarian with
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 18
INT 10
WIS 11
CHA 10

Being the retard that I am I put my +2 into DEX instead of STR. I know I fucked up with this one, at this rate I'll get 20 STR by level 8. How badly will this hurt me and is there anything I can do to fix it?

Currently at level 4 with ~430 gp

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I'm just saying i can't wait to cut boulders in half or slice some stupid mage's spells out of the air

>>43716961
And yet it's still a T3 at best.

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>>43716969
Brain is full of spiders, debating writing. Need to actually get on my FUCKING PROJECTS but work schedules suddenly shifting has my sleep and sense of focus fucked beyond belief. If I can think straight for an hour and a half I can wrap up the initial release for Fey!Book and get that into testing but nooooo, why should that simple requirement manifest itself at any point.

It's frustrating. Feel the need to write but can't get fingers to keys coherently.

>>43716994
Not very badly, really. You'll be fine.

>>43716994
You can just Retrain it, man.

>>43716968
I don't really understand what you're going for here.
You've admitted that there are a great deal of things level 10 parties can do on Golarion. So...?

>>43717003
... Your point? That's where it's good to have it. Myrmidon Fighter is a pretty cool T3 and the king of counters, since the warder can't do it every round.

>>43716528
>Thamiel would be some kind of anti-aeon, I guess?
>Chaigidel would stop positive energy, maybe?
>Sathariel has massive advantage against divine casters
>Gamchicoth eats massive holes out of the battlefield
>Golachab is a massive behemoth that wrecks everything it can
>Thagirion can cause adventures to waste turns squabbling with each other
>Herab Serapnel is fought on a pile of things it collected in greed
>I get Samael even less then the others, maybe it has both Angel and qlippoth subtypes?
>Gamaleil has the most powerful horrific appearance
>nehemoth controls things across the planes with it's whispers
Hopefully I didn't totally fuck up th concepts.
>

>>43716766
Batman is on extraplanar adventures all the fucking time and spends more time out of gotham than he does in it, in fact he has a whole team of replacement batmen for when hes in another dimension or space.

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>>43716925
Hooold up there anon. 1-6 works fine, though it does encourage a different kind of selection and optimization. What we said was /it won't hurt anything/ if you let them have ninths. When we called the shot on restraining them down to 6 - something the team as a whole did - we did so /after/ confirming that the progression would still let them contribute & participate as level-appropriate characters.

>>43716994
Nigga, you still have an 18 before raging. Chill out

>>43717029
What I'm saying is that even with 9th, it's still only T3, and won't break out of it. It lacks spells, which means it literally can't break out of it.

>>43716994
You should still be good. You got 18s in your most important stats, and the little Dex will help with your AC since you'll mostly be in either medium or light armors. Just get a huge Weapon, preferably one with reach and high damage, and beat up nerds. Also force your nerd to make Oils and Potions that the Rogue can rub in you at the start of gattle. Using a Potion of Jump to polevault over a horde of zombies and brain the enemy necromancer while he was busy trying to dick the party Wizard is fun.

>>43717006
Sorry to hear it. I finally get off in an hour or so, and I've spent all day doing reports for my superiors, chasing delinquents off, and generally just being aggravated with humanity in general.

Hope things get better.

>>43716968
>By this point you aren't bandits, you are powerful enough you would be a full fledged rebel and a threat to the authority of the region you are acting in.
So, basically, what you're saying is, usurping the throne of a humanoid Material plane surface kingdom is something a 10th level party can do?

And, therefore, conquering every one of those such kingdoms, in other words, establishing an empire to rival that of IRL Rome in a world far harder to do so in, is a task for a party above 10th level?

>>43717023
I can't retrain racial bonuses

Mechanically speaking, how much AC would tying babies all over your body add. You need line of sight to cast on a person so if you have enough babies to be granted full cover you're immune to all magic! I'd essentially be a god!

Anyways, all jokes aside, how do you do evil characters well?

>>43717037
Considering the theory I mean it's practically confirmed by Paizo I think, they just like to play around it like they're being subtle that Rovagug is basically the biggest Qlippoth of them all, how would he fit into this?

>>43716740
>especially when eventually PC action will force a 'show' with nothing to back it up.
Reminds me of when I DMed Skulls and Shackles.
>on a stolen ship
>see fuckhuge Chelish deathship
>PCs decide to hoist the flags of the ship's previous owners. That ship's country has a trade deal with Cheliax. Their current crew has no people from that country.
>Chelish ship catches up to them and demands to inspect them
>ohshitoshit
>Barbarian PC yells "sure, come aboard!"
>Fuckhuge commander gets on their boat. A dozen marines with him, and dozens more on his ship. "You, captain, come here."
>The commander called over the barbarian instead of the bard they were going to have pretend to be the captain.
>"What are you doing in these waters?"
>"Uh. We um uh. Slave trading. On our way to Cheliax with these uh. Slaves"
>Presents bloodstained papers of previous ship owner. Thankfully they were trade papers.
>Bluff 7
>Commander gets real close and stares the barbarian deep into his eyes.
>Sense motive 6
>"Your contributions to my motherland do not go unnoticed. Sail safe sir. There are pirates in these waters, so be careful."

Like that?

>>43717141
Remember that evil does not mean unreasonable.

>>43717141
Really just don't make them randumb.
Or do, and show how fucked up that would actually be.

You don't actually need to make evil characters complex, people are good for good reasons, people are bad both for good reasons and dumb ones.

I would give the babies +3 against slashing and piercing, but nothing else. They're too soft to effectively block bludgeoning or elemental damage.