MTG Spoilers: wtf R&D edition

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>>43700646
<><> counterspell when

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>>43700646
More OGW sillyness

>>43700646
I don't see a land type on that card son, you'd best read it again.

>Not RTFC
>1993+22
>etc etc.

>>43700702
It's a "Basic Land - Wastes" card type. l2r, etc...

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>>43700741
That's the name of the card, you fuck. It's a basic land with no land type.

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>>43700702
Why do people have a hard time understanding a basic land not actually being a basic land type?

It can't produce a color, so what type would it get?

>>43700646
>New basic land type?
Actually not.

>>43700839
well, it *could* be basic land - wastes. in which case, you could tribal flames for 6. but it's not, so 5 is the max.

my current thought is that <> is basically an additional cost (like altar's reap: as an additional cost, sacrifice a creature). there's some shit that makes it, but mostly it's just a troll.

>>43700741
Right back at you, moron.

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>>43700741
>l2r
>cant fucking read himself

>>43700839
>"Printing Waste at common was a mistake since it confused newer players too much." - Maro, October 2016

NWO confirmed for being a good thing.

>>43700741
>The name box is the same as the type box!

Oh boy, so the name of every card ever printed is also a card type!

Source?

>>43700949
Wizards.

>>43700839
>>43700857

It doesn't need a type, because i think it may just be them retemplating the old colorless-making lands to make a <>, so that there is a distinction between generic costs and colorless mana. Making the 'basic land with no land type' a little more legitimate and easier to work within the rules.

It turns colorless into the 6th color that it's always kind of been.

Or not, it's wild speculation.

>>43700949
>>43700962
There is no source

Did these get snuck out? Why no announcement?

>>43700996
>>43700949
The power of leaks.

or fakes, we have no clue

>>43700996
Because Kozilek wants you to be confused.

Are these cards real? How does the new mana symbol work? Isn't this impossible to be real? Did reality just become distorted?

/!\ ALERT /!\

MARO CONFIRMED NEW LANDS

http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/42052634149/why-are-the-colorless-mana-symbol-eg-add-1

/!\ ALERT /!\

PAINLANDS NOW LESS GARBAGE

>>43700968
I think it is a mana symbol that requires colorless and can't be paid by any of the WUBRG, That seems like a perfectly fine mechanic, imo.

>>43701017
>February 01, 2013

But yes, that's around the time they began exploratory design for Zendikar block.

>>43701017
>http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/42052634149/why-are-the-colorless-mana-symbol-eg-add-1
Wow
He confirmed it TWO FUCKING YEARS AGO
Almost three actuallly

Won't making them basic lands mean they'll be legal in every set? Is <> something we can expect a lot more of in the future?

>>43701033
Yeah, that's what i'm thinking it is too, it's interesting and forces you to use colorless lands or lands that simply produce colorless, which certainly makes an important distinction between colorless and colored mana when talking about colorless cards.

I think it's really cool, and it's about time they explored that kind of idea that colorless cards really do need to be colorless.

>>43701063
Nope. The five basic lands are only legal in all blocks because they get reprinted there. Snow-covered lands aren't legal to play in today's Standard because the last time they were reprinted was in Coldsnap, which is not Standard legal.

>>43700646
Is this basically housekeeping on the part of RND?
Where <> is colorless and C is just generic mana of any color?

That's what I would think.

>>43701063
Maybe
I honestly have no idea what they're gonna do with anus mana

>>43701063
Snow Lands aren't legal in every set either. Basics need to have been printed within the format in question to be legal there.

Fun fact: In a format where only slow basics would have been printed, normal basics would be illegal.

>>43701084
But we ARE all in agreement that anus mana is the proper name for it yes?

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>>43701084
>anus mana

>>43701109
It's crystal mana.

>>43701109
Nah, I think the new symbol is better than the old one. Greatest of all time, in fact.

So we should distinguish between the old symbol and the new symbol by referring to them as C and GOATC.

>>43701121
If it had all straight lines I'd agree with you and call it "Diamond mana, but with the curves I can't help but just see an anus

>>43701121
T. Tumblerina redditor warrior of the fedora


Anus land

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>>43700968
Why does pic related produce <>, not just (1), then?

Didn't MaRo say in his column this week they'd cracked a longstanding design problem? Maybe that's what Wastes was, the colourless basic land?

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Will this become viable with Oath?

>>43701279
He was talking about contraptions in Kaladesh.

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what is she holding in her hand?

>>43701312
Some bismuth. Gonna make some dye.

Why Wizards decided to name their BIGGEST in-universe antagonist "Nicol Bolas" when it's obvious that such name translated to spanish (biggest language on the world) comes off as

>Los testiculos de Nicolas
>Nicol Testicular
>Dragon con testiculos colgando

They literally named their main villain as male genitalia.

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>>43700929
Anon.... It literally used to be like that.
>pic related

>>43700793
Thank you for that. I've been on my phone a day and haven't gotten a chance to make this yet.

>>43701287
Its already viable.....its shown up in multiple ramp decks.

>>43701312
A piece of anus land

>>43701335
Then why can I still buy it for five cents?

>>43701345
Because the ramp deck isn't very good.

>>43701017
>/!\ ALERT /!\

>PAINLANDS NOW LESS GARBAGE

This doesn't make painlands less garbage.

>>43701345
>>43701358
And Sanctum of Ugin isn't really needed in the deck for the better versions.

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>>43701312
HOOOOOLLLLYYY SHHHIIIITTT

>>43701325
They don't give a shit

>>43701312
Jeez that fishy bitch is fine as FUCK.

>>43701312
>fishtits
Disgusting.

>>43701131
Oh my god that was brilliant.

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>>43700646
>mfw these first show up
>mfw they're real
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY REALLY THIS STUPID? WHY THE FUCK WEREN'T THESE IN BFZ?

>>43701325

why doesn't someone who speaks Spanish just make a card game to rival magic if its so prolific.

looks like big EM will be real crazee when he does show up

>>43701398

They aren't real though.

>>43701407
It exist, it's called Mitos y Leyendas.
The guy that does the cards art also does art for Wizards and Blizzard sometimes.

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>>43701394
YOU TAKE THAT BACK

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>>43701424

>google it

uhhhhhhhhhhh

is this... it...?

>>43701425
Non-mammalian mammaries are heresy.

>>43701425
DUDE, its all about her hips, they're fucking amazing

>>43700697
I fucking love this card actually

Ill do whatever I can to make a shitty standard deck with him and his diamond mana cost bros

>>43701459
Those look very mammalian to me. Remember: dolphins are mammals, too, despite living in the water.

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>>43701453
Nop, your google skills are shit anon.

>>43701453
http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/game_id/40

>>43701469
Dolphins don't have thin veiny fins like that, they have fat meaty flippers.

>>43701469

It's not heresy to fuck a dolphin, right?

>>43701325
Because he's named after a character in someone's D&D game from way back when the design teams were independent groups of Garfield's buddies (as were most of the legends from Legends), and said group was unaware of the meaning of his name.
So they've got this badass dragon villain who happens to have an unfortunate name in one of the many languages that Magic is printed in.

New spoiler just leaked. RW manland, turns into a 4/2 first striker for 1WR.

>>43700646
>>43700697
God dammit I just got done putting my entire collection up on eBay because I just can't afford to keep up with the game and I need to invest in other things...shit like this makes me want to take it down and start buying again...

>>43701538
image links, ooorr...??

>>43701543
My bad, it appears it was confirmed fake.

>>43701542

>THIS makes you want to start buying again

seek help

>>43701425
>>43701465
Why not both?

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>>43701489

>>43701121
it's nothing mana

literally void mana

mana so colorless that it's actually just unfathomable because it was crafted by Mr. "You don't understand me" himself

>>43701706
>>43700933

>>43701706
Then shouldn't you use it to decrease your opponent's mana poll rather than increase your own?

>>43701706
It's colorless mana.

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the way magic seems to be going lately

>>43701398
It's so colorless that it can't really even be called colorless

You can't understand it

Just as Kozilek designed it

It's probably what he was working to unleash that whole time underground

>>43701721
no one knows

why can't you understand that

oh wait

To the guy last thread who insulted the Onslaught block books: fuck you niggerfaggot, those books were great.

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>>43701737

>>43701735
>Colorless mana
Then explain this crap?

>>43700697
See the diamond, Diamond, EIGHT COLORLESS cost? It's new mana. A new stupid color to confuse the noobs.

And I thought Akroma was stupid. I'm glad I quit when I did.

>>43701833
The obvious thing would be to say <> can only be paid by colorless mana, rather than any type of mana, colored or colorless.

It's not that confusing.

I have a question
>Meme crab <>
This can only be paid with <> mana. But not with 1 mana of ANY color NOR mana generated, by for example, mishra's factory
>Kek's crab
this can be paid with ANY mana of ANY color, including non-colored-specified (Mishra's) and non-colored <> (Waste)


>DIS B GUD IDEA :DDDDDD

>>43701849
Did you suffer a stroke while writing this post?

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>>43701847
Ok.
So I can pay Kozi2 cost with my tron?
Is <> payable with Mutavault's mana?

>>43701861
Yes.

>>43701861
I don't know. Those are only guesses on my part, given Eldrazi care about colorless and the design of these cards. But perhaps it's another type of mana altogether.

But yes, I'd say you can.

>>43701847
wouldn't it make more sense to just say something along the lines of "this creature's mana cost can only be paid with colourless mana" instead of inventing an entirely new symbol

>>43700646
Cool bismuth land, bro. That mana symbol reminds me of normal energy, from Pokemon.

>>43701878
No, because this lets there be a colorless basic land, which people have been asking for for a long time.

>>43701878
>paying ten colorless mana in draft

Yeah, no.

It makes sense to distort the mana and invert it so colored requirements become colorless requirements.

>>43701878
Probably. But it's less cool.

What if anus mana is actually a representation of processing to pay a cost, and the wastes are fake?

>>43701886
shit man maybe they'd have to print some kind of support for their colourless fatties

>>43701889
They would write that on the card, not put that in the mana cost.

>>43701889
Processing and eating is Ulamog's shtick. Warping and distorting is more Kozilek's kind of fun.

I had hope for OGW
If these card are real, it will be the first set that disappoint me

WotC, please, don't do this

>>43701901
Are you retarded? Are you the down's syndrome player that Wizards has been catering to with
>BFZ
>Khans
>>>>>>Theros
Seriously, fuck off you goddamn cretin.

>>43701901
>the first set that disappoint me
BfZ, Avacyn Restored, Gatecrash/Maze, and all of Theros didn't?

>>43701919
I liked avacyn restored...

repost from reddit, but clears shit up >>43701861

Previously:
{1} in cost: generic mana. Can be paid with any color
Until Onslaught: "Add one colorless mana to your mana pool". Can be used to pay generic costs.
After Onslaught: "Add {1} to your mana pool". {1} in mana producers is colorless mana that can be used to pay generic mana costs.
After Oath:
{1} in cost: generic mana. Can be paid with any color or colorless
{d} in cost: colorless mana. Can only be paid with colorless mana.
{d} in producers: colorless mana. Can pay generic and colorless costs.
{1} in producers: No longer exists, erreta to {d}

>>43701328
It still said it in the type box you idiot

>>43701901
>>43701917
>>43701919
>>43701930
I liked the Kamigawa block more than all these meme blocks and sets that you mentioned combined.

I waiting for Return to Kamigawa on 2016.

>>43701917
>>43701919
Well, I did/do have fun playing with those sets Because they are fun

This new mana just feel wrong, useless and will scare new players

>>43701954
>caring about it scaring new players
MaRo

>>43701954
>those sets
>fun
Are you one of those tards who started with Innistrad and thinks it's the best set ever?

Also no one cares about scaring new players except fucking Maro.

>>43701960
Between playing with you and with a new player, I choose the one that like playing MtG

>>43701982
You're right. New players don't like MtG.

>>43701982
I chose playing with him because he doesn't have shit taste nor is retarded.

There I invalidated your entire thesis.

>>43701980
There is no best set
It's useless to compare them, unless it is the same block

>ITT people don't know card types and subtypes
>ITT people don't know the difference between the new true colorless and generic mana

>>43701987
>>43701990
Why are you playing a game you hate, anons ?

>>43702017
I don't hate the game, I hate some of the sets.

>>43701998
Any Ravnica set is objetively better than any other Magic set since there have produced the best modern age cards (emphasis on age, not the format) this game has to offer and were also cashcows.

Before you only had shitty what the fuck is happening stupid sets with unbalanced effects and nearly no lore that sold like shit and sometimes had hits here and there.

>>43702023
You hate the sets that are the actual face of MtG

>>43701946
>{1} in producers: No longer exists, erreta to {d}

Omg, nothing will get errata. It works perfectly within the rules. Generic mana ≠ <>

>>43702017
I like Magic, Im fine with retards not joining the game because a there too fucking stupid to accept or understand the concept of colorless basic lands.

Im also fine if retards like you leave the game.

>>43702040
Magic's a butterface then.

>>43702040
>face of magic

You mean Jace? The fucker that apparently everyone loves and is everywhere?

>>43702040
>The set MaRo admitted was a mistake is part of the face of magic
Fuck off

>>43701778
So you like masturbating shadowpeople, panthers for asses, two people that have to be killed at the exact same time with the same weapon for the whole plot to even work WAIT NO IT'S THREE WITH ONE BLOW, bringing back dead characters for no good reason, making Teferi white, and dropping Braids down a hole because why not?

>>43702030
ravnicababby pls

>>43702045
If you want colorless mana using basic lands, why not just using colored basic land like we did during 20 years ?

>>43702068
>You mean Jace? The fucker that apparently everyone loves and is everywhere?
Why is he even the main character? I don't think I've met anyone in real life or the internet who thought he was a good character

>>43702081
holy shit what is this

>>43702098
He's a generic fuck that represents Magic's main playerbase. They're gonna switch him out soon, which'll be neat.

>>43702098
Because wizards wanted someone that they could use as the face of magic and plaster over everything. so we got 5 human/human like walkers because people can easily relate to them. Even ajani has been phased out as their white planeswalker because he wasnt human enough

Fuck i miss urza though

>>43702105
A sentence you didn't understand

>>43701279

It was probably something in fall 2016's block, or the one after. They design 2 years out.

>>43701301
Most likely this.

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Boreal Druid reprint?

>>43702149
MaRo said no more onedrop mana dorks.

>>43702149
There might be a functional one, though it wouldn't be a snow creature.

>>43702081
because some people like flavor.

>>43702149
Nope, too powerful for standard

>>43702148
>It was probably something in fall 2016's block, or the one after. They design 2 years out.

The question was about spring 2016 though.

>>43702154
MaRo says a lot of things

>>43702081
Colorless EDH nigga.

>>43702172
He does like to bend the truth, doesn't he?

>>43701033
It's just Eldrazi Snow.
They could've made Blighted Plains et all, but they decided to finally give the EDH babbyes their motherfucking colorless land so they can play with Karn/Kozilek/Ulamog as their general and stop whining.

>>43702177
Like the fucking kike he is.

>>43702177
It's not his fault, his nasus has been slowly taking control over the brain

>>43702149
Kike's good goyim slave 1<><>
Double rare epic mythic
T: Add <> to your mana pool

0/3

Is it really that difficult to understand?
You pay for Blue spells with Islands
You pay for Green spells with Forests
You pay for <> spells with Wastes
It's not colorless as it's defined

>>43702224
You pay for <> with colorless ONLY you retard.

>>43702236
But you can't pay for <> with a land that produces 1 like Mutavault or Sanctum of Ugin.
1 colorless isn't the same as <>

>>43701325
To be fair, Nicol Bolas was not designed as the biggest in-universe antagonist. He just fell into the role.

>>43702260
Yes it is you moron.

<> is the requirement of spending 1 colorless mana.

8<><> means you must spend 8 mana of any color and 2 which must be colorless

>>43702260
Unless it IS the same as <>. Which at this point is equally as likely.
Moreso because they've been trying to reduce fully parasitic mechanics like what you're saying it is would be.

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>>43701453
This is Mitos y Leyendas, where Pancho Villa fights along Achilles, Thor, Amaterasu and Ra, and everything is always vintage-level retarded.

>>43702270
Can you prove this? The way I see it is that Wastes produce the diamond symbol which is printed on the card, just like how other land cards produce the same symbol on them (forest = tree, islands = water, etc)

>>43702270

Not the guy just trying to understand this theroy.
Why are there lands that produce <> then?
They could as well just produce 1.
Suggests that there is a mechanic that distinquishes <> form 1 while in the manapool.

>>43701538
Shoul've known better. That land is actually good.

>>43702292
OR that they're phasing out 'T: Add 1 to your mana pool' for 'T: Add <> to your mana pool'
And because the basic looks like shit if it's a number, they've mocked it up before.

>>43702292
Read up on the explanations why it isn't that simple from the old "Barry's Land" article. The wastes are essentially a workaround to barry's land.

>>43701325
Spanish is not the "biggest" language in the world

>>43702292
You're basically asking why there are cards that say 'comes into play' instead of 'enters the battlefield'.

Colorless mana has now been made distinct from generic mana.

>>43702270
We don't actually know for sure.

>>43702270
So it's like the pyrexian mana where you could pay either 2 life or the mana cost?

>>43702313
This land isn't Barry's Land.
Barry's Land's entire point was to push Domain up to six, which Wastes cannot do. It has not solved the problem of Barry's Land at all.

>>43702317
It's the second most spoken language and the fist most spoken natively.
Would be the most spoken language if americans weren't completely retarded and incapable of understanding any language other than dumbed down english, or people from other nations didn't need to conduce business with 'murrka.

>>43702386
The mechanic would be far too parasitic if they essentially made one-time lands for a handful of cards.

It'll without a doubt just be spend colorless mana only on <>. Why? Because it's a genius workaround to making viable cards that can be played across formats.

Standard is prohibitive with colorless mana production. There's no tron or over-the-top rock ramp for players to abuse. That means the ball is totally in Wizard's court. They can print some really pushed stuff specifically because producing colorless mana isn't an effortless feat in this format. Hence why they're making colorless lands, it's an on-theme drawback for standard.

For modern and up? This restriction goes away, and all of those really strong but prohibited cards suddenly become a lot more playable, but obviously have to be built toward in a specific way.

It's a really clever design.

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>>43702098
I thought based Gideon was the main boi

>>43700646
It seems pretty shitty to introduce this obviously block restricted card to the last set in the block.

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>>43702392
So converge is still a shit mechanic?

>>43702463
Yes.
Radiant Flames is alright, if you're already playing three colors including red, because you can toggle between 1-3 damage if you need to, but other than that it's shit.
Maybe if there were more Xs in the costs than just the one flying beater it'd be okay.

>>43702463
It was shit when it was called sunburst too, anon.

>>43700646
What does it add to your mana pool? Bismuth?

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You know they already did this like 20 years ago in Pokémon right? I'm actually surprised it took them this long now that I think about it.

>>43702527
Wizards made double colorless energy

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>>43700646
They actually stole Jonathon Loucks' The Great Designer contest idea to make whole BFZ and OGW sets after they kick him from R&D.

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/125b

Well done Maro!

>>43701033
So it's a sixth color that doesn't interact with any of the "colors matter" mechanics like converge/sunburst/etc?

Bismuth lands confirmed for most parasitic design failure since Kamigawa block?

>>43702619
It's just colorless cards that require lands that make colorless.
You were gonna urzatron it out anyways, right?
Right.

>>43702030
Gatecrash and especially Dragon's Maze were utter dogshit.

Hell, Dragon's Maze was one of the worst sets of all time, especially considering modern set design.

>>43701425

Jesus christ I can't unsee it.

follow her leg on the left and look how it connects to her hip. .

>>43702671
What's the problem?

>>43702098
Jace is the character business executives think we like. And it turns out marketing dept. isn't about telling the investors what is or isn't performing, it's about bullshitting the investors about Jace being oh so pupular and increasing sales because executive X says so.

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>>43701489
>It's not heresy to fuck a dolphin, right?
I dunno anon, what do you think?

>>43702812
She's sitting in a position that from this angle messes with this guys sense of perspective

>>43702405
Mandarin has more than twice the native speakers of Spanish. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

>>43700646
Didn't they (Maro?) mention many months ago that BFZ block contains the solution to Barry's Land and how to make basics viable for colorless Commander decks?

This sound quite plausible.

Having had a few hours to cool off on it I'm warming up to this new design.

I can't wait for Maro's column on it where he'll ensnare me once again and make me think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread with his sneaky kike ways.

>>43702149
>1 mana
>taps for mana
>has power
uh that card is pretty fucking overpowered anon
i dont think they would reprint it in standard

>>43700857

Actually, malimg it só it does count as a sixth color for domain, converge AND cards like that would maybe make cards like Prism Array less shit.

>>43702154
to reiterate: he thinks one-drop mana dorks are too strong RIGHT NOW. Green being persistently a turn ahead was a significant reason to why abzan was #1 deck

>>43701277

Because it can only be spent to cast spells that demand goatse mana, it can't cast artifact spells, for instance.

>>43702665
Gatecrash was fun as fuck go fuck yourself.

>>43702288
>everything is always vintage-level retarded.
Oh wow.
Sure it did get even more dumb than when I last played with the dragon xpac

>>43701954
Everything scares new players. Catering to new players is literally the worst thing you can do, it turns M:tG into fucking Hearthstone.

>>43702619
>Bismuth lands confirmed for most parasitic design failure since Kamigawa block?
You mean since the last set? Sure.

>>43702950
>contains the solution to Barry's Land and how to make basics viable for colorless Commander decks?
Commander players are so fucking retarded, you realize you could just play with an adjusted ruleset right? Just use mountains it's not like anyone should care.

>>43702619
>Bismuth lands confirmed for most parasitic design failure since Kamigawa block?

Not even remotely. For one thing, they are going to have a significant impact on EDH that will last basically forever.

Furthermore, nothing about these cards will be unusable in future sets. They might even have some sort of fringe meta uses. We just don't know until we know exactly how these cards will work.

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>>43703028
I hope you're sarcastic, because it's either that or you're completely fucking retarded.

>>43703316
>sarcastic
you mean parasitic :^)

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>>43703300
Are you for fucking real?

>>43703320
>I hope you're parasitic
That doesn't even make any sense.

>>43702319

source?

>>43703321
It's a casual format and if you're playing in tournaments they could just fucking add in a rule.
There is absolutely no sensible reason for why you can't just use other lands.

>>43703416
For friends sure, but EDH has expanded into pick up games and having universal rule set is important for that so including these cards is also important.

>>43703467
>having universal rule set is important
How in this case? I fail to see what issues would occur if you just say 'just imagine the mountains are colorless basic lands' before playing.

>>43703494
Well, you could. But on the off chance that you run into the one guy who hates that you do and you really want to play these would be great.

>>43703300
They should seriously just do away with the whole concept of colour identity. The rule that says that all mana you would get that is not one of the colours of your commander becomes colourless instead should be enough.

With that piece of bad game design out of the window, people could play basic lands in colourless decks, hybrid mana creatures in monocolour decks and cards with flashbacks or other activated abilities in decks that could not generate mana to activate them. No format would be broken.

>>43702950
This isn't the solution to Barry's Land. Barry's Land was specifically made to make Domain better. This doesn't add to domain.

>>43703416
>>43703494
You're literally complaining about WotC making the game more concise. There's no problem here other than you being a dumb fuck complaining about literally nothing.

>>43700646
Does this mean that all lands that tap for colorless tap for <> now?

>>43700646
>>43700702
>>43700839

You know. I think people are missing the point.
>New basis land?
No
>New Mana Type
>Yes

>The important part
The New Mana type.

Pretty sure that's what people are freaking out over.

>>43703595
It isn't a new mana type. Its just colorless mana. This is just a new basic land without a new basic land type.

>>43703595
We literally don't know yet. People who are freaking out already are reactionary retards.

>>43703577
>You're literally complaining about WotC making the game more concise
Never complained about the card itself actually, just insulted EDH players for being slaves to arbitrary rules. The card seems stupid beyond that, but its influence on EDH is positive, it just shouldn't have been necessary and it could've just come as a part of a commander set if they hated getting rid of color identity or adding proxy lands.

>>43703494
What if someone plays both colorless lands and mountains?

>>43703526
Honestly, I personally like the color identity rules because of how they make deckbuilding more interesting and the differences between the colors more concise. I don't want EDH reanimator decks that can put targets from any color in their deck no matter what their commander is, for example. Or commanders that cast spells for free could just put whatever in their decks. It's not the right way to go.

>>43703602
>Its just colorless mana.
Well that's incorrect as all fuck. At very least it's like Snow or Phi mana. It's not "Just Colorless".

>>43703625
Either they're not allowed to do that or they should use islands as proxies instead?
This doesn't seem very difficult.

>>43703638
The only supertype it has is basic. It doesn't do anything special. All <> means is 'can only be paid with colorless mana' and the new <> basic lands are just catering to new players to make it less confusing. Screencap this post.

So am I right in assuming Animar won't be able to reduce the casting cost of these creatures to 0?

>>43703682
Probably just like Gut Shot if played with life under Trinisphere costs 3 colorless and 2 life.

>>43703661
essentially you want them to proxy something that didn't exist, but does now

>>43703711
Yes. Anything else?

>>43703734
People generally wouldn't allow that making building a colorless deck for pick up play functionally impossible.

>>43703855
>People generally wouldn't allow that
Then they're fucking idiots and I pity the few non-retarded EDH players who have to suffer with them.
Either that or EDH is infested with Pluralistic ignorance due to no one pushing the norms in which they're still idiots.

>>43703944
Then what's wrong with them printing these cards?

>>43703952
There isn't anything wrong with them printing the card for EDH. All I've said about it is >>43703624 that it seems stupid for standard and they could've printed it in a commander set instead.

>Not calling it Tangomana

>>43702527
If I'm understanding <> correctly (which I doubt I am), double colorless is a pretty different mechanic. Unless <> lands provide 2 mana.

>>43704013
>tangomana
>not bismuthmana

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Reminder that not all cards that fetch land base their search off a subtype, and that Evolving Wilds can fetch Wastes.

>>43702608
Wow, there is a load of cute comments from the judges in their critiques.

>a better shock?! Can't have that!
>reprints bolt a few years later

>colourless as a sixth colour? You done goofed son

>snow lands and such sucked.
>wastes may be just the same

>>43704037
so can solemn simulacrum

>>43704064
Nothing that comes from the next set will be worth caring about in Modern to the point where you'd actually run Solemn when he's too slow for the format currently.

>>43704038
>snow lands and such sucked.
What was bad about them? Just not impactful enough for people? 'parasitic'? They don't seem too bad to me.

>>43704083
oh I know I just think that it'll be neat to have solemn fetch a basic colorless in EDH

>>43704090
I suppose it'll make Solemn playable in Karn since he'd have a fetch target now.

>>43704097
yeah. I think that barry's land will do some significant work. I'd pick up as many of him as you can.

>>43704038
Further proof that design team is nothing but selfish narsist bastards

>>43704106
Sad Robot is getting a decent reprint every year with the Commander sets so there's no point in trying to make bank off him.

>>43704166
no BARRY'S LAND. BUY BARRY'S LAND

>>43701954
>This new mana just feel wrong
That's probably the point. What better way to represent how the Eldrazi transcend the color pie than by requiring you to pay colorless mana to play them? From a flavor perspective I like the concept and it's a cool idea. It's got a lot of potential if wizards prints good support for it.

>ITT: People who are too retarded to understand the difference between generic and colorless mana.

There has always been a problem with {1}, given that it meant different things depending on whether it was a cost or a produces mana.

Take Ur-Golem's Eye for example. It costs {4} to play, and this mana can be of any color or colorless. However, it taps to produce {2}, which is colorless mana.

So the {4} you'd get from tapping two of these artifacts would be different than the {4} one of them costs to cast.

Will we get <> in casting costs outside of Eldrazi related cards? Most likely not. Requiring colorless mana is a design space that's Eldrazi space.

Will we see cards produce <> (aka colorless) mana? Yes. Cards will no longer produce {1}, since numbers are generic costs that can be paid using any kind of mana. Lands, artifacts, and other shit will be errata'd to produce <> instead of {1}, <><> instead of {2}, etc.

Trust me- we're not going to see numbers next to <> except for Eldrazi cards.

>>43701277
Because, by his idea producing <> will be the same as adding (1) now.
And it just says <> so that players know it can pay <> costs

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>mfw I've been foiling out a Kozilek list for almost a year now

Hopefully everything playable increases in price and I can sell the deck for a nice profit

>>43704206
Wizards could always just change the notation. Sol Ring costs {1} and produces <2>. I don't see the point of only doing this in one set though, unless this somehow ties in with the Devoid (see: COMPLETELY FUCKING USELESS) mechanic. Wizards changed from 3 to 2 set blocks so the good shit wasn't shoveled in right at the end, but now they've gone and shoveled the good shit right at the end like a bunch of cunts.

>>43704107
R&D as a whole was also opposed to split cards, double-faced cards, and the entire concept of a land set in the first place. In each one of those cases, Maro had to stand by his idea and push them through.

Miracles started as a mechanic that Maro tried to introduce back in Tempest. Infect was Maro bringing back poison after over a decade of fighting to find a place for it.

Groups of people are always resistant to new ideas. But rejecting it at one point and accepting it at another isn't narcissism, it's simply the way of things. Moreover, whether or not a mechanic fits properly can make it or break it. Colorless-restricted costs make sense with the Eldrazi, but would they really have made sense anywhere else?

>>43702081
They want to promote colorless without creating a situation where exceptionally powerful colorless cards can be splashed into any deck. It will also force some consideration in deck building on whether to use pain lands over fetch/tango lands if someone wanted to run some of these newer colorless cards in a colored deck. Typical lands that generate colorless mana are mostly uncommon and rare. Therefore a basic version is required for such a mana cost requirement to be successful.

>>43704206
>>43704232
However with this approach almost all nonbasic nondual lands need nonfunctional wording change for {1} to <>. Which will alienate new players almost more than anything

>>43703633
Okay, but fuck the rules on Hybrid.

If this set isn't Planar Chaos 2.0 I'm going to smack a bitch. The Eldrazi are supposed to be fucking with reality, but so far they've just been generic dudes with mana costs you'd expect non-Eldrazi to have.

>>43704249
I'm pretty sure <1> would like shit. Having colorless mana be written out individually helps differentiate it from generic mana in costs.

>>43704013
>>43704029
>Not anusmana

>>43701013
>How does the new mana symbol work?
i assume it works similar to a colorled cost, except it must be paid with colorless mana

>>43702435
Gideon's shit, though. Second least interesting of the Origins Five, only barely beating Nissa.

Do we all agree to call it goatse mana?

>>43704278
They just issued errata to every modal spell ever in KTK.

>>43704037
Not really much point in using that unless you're hard up for the deck thinning or landfall aspect. I'd rather use a bunch of pain lands and a playset of rogue's passage.

>>43704278
People said the same thing about the switch from Summon spells and Enchant spells to Creature spells and Enchantment- Aura spells.

People said the same thing about the change of into play and creature enters the graveyard from play to enter the battlefield and dies.

People said the same thing about planeswalkers that cost only 2 mana, or ones with four abilities, or ones with no colors, or ones with no + abilities.

>>43702950
Because Ancient Tomb, Quicksand and Commanders Tower don't exist. Commander players could already make colurless decks faggot, stop being pathetic.

>>43704363
These are certainly some of the reasons I stopped paying, yes.

>>43704419
command tower doesn't work in colorless edh

>>43704419
Also Urborg, Tomb of Y-Dog

>>43704279
I kinda agree but its a price worth paying for having it work the way it does and having some consistency. There's very few examples of hybrid cards I wish I could play as either of the colors in EDH but sure, it's a thing.

>>43701044
Except this isn't even Barry's land. This is the shit they've been working on since invasion and it doesn't even make domain better. Way to go you lazy fucks

>>43701953
KTK was Return to Kamigawa

>>43701737
>T-Mobile
Got me

>>43704605
Kitchen Finks, Dryad Militant, Judge's Familiar and Figure of Destiny are the top examples I can think of based on other formats. Monowhite would really like hybrid cards.

>>43703624

all the rules are arbitrary, it's a card game. why not just show up with a deck fo 60 hand drawn cards that say "(0)-win everything forerever times infinity plus one."

I nean, who thr fuck cares right, just tell your opponent to imaging it is actually printed on regulation thickness cardboard. if you want to play in a tournament with your awesome deck I'm sure you could convince them to make a rule for you.

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>>43702041
If they go that route then they are making possibly the most parasitic mechanic ever made AND killing any chance of <> cards seeing play anywhere, from limited to constructed. Even they are not retarded enough to bust out the big guns of making another land type/mana cost only to use it in a small set and never to be seen again, no after all these years of tame design and bashing on Iceage and Kamigawa as examples to be avoided.

>>43704172
>>43704106
>>43702950
This isn't Barry's land, and anyone who says it is is either an idiot or a liar. Probably both.

>>43704847
>Even they are not retarded enough to bust out the big guns of making another land type/mana cost only to use it in a small set and never to be seen again
See, you say that...

>>43701277
This fact alone makes me believe Wastes aren't going to live up to what /tg/ is hyping them to be atm.
My best guess is that it's gonna be pretty much like colorless snow mana.

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So this guy must work for "Kozilek, the great distortion". Right?

>>43704784
>all the rules are arbitrary
No they're not, they're for the facilitation of the game. When you can facilitate the game better by changing the rules you have a justification for changing the rules. This is the entire reason there is a ban list.
>strawman argument intensifies
okey dokey

>>43704872
>parasitic mechanic just for Kozilek

Not going to happen, f4m.

>>43704875
>can't reduce Big Cozy to [0]
>you must still pay two true colorless mana from Scions, Wastes, or Blighted lands

I like it.

>>43704889
I said literally none of those words. I don't think you know how quoting works.

>>43702405
>if other nations didn't need to conduce business with America
See? You answered your own question bud

>>43704876

what strawman? you are, in fact, arguing for allowing players to homebrew cards that drastically increase the power of their decks and then play them in tornaments and shit. why would some bullshit homebrew basic land that you made up be ok but not my spell?

>>43704206
There has never been a problem with {1}.
However, now there's a problem with players not having reading comprehension, thus requiring <>.

>>43704911
>colorless snow mana
>not a parasitic mechanic

>>43704889
>Scions and blighted lands
That's not how <> works, faggot

>>43704924
>you are, in fact, arguing for allowing players to homebrew cards that drastically increase the power of their decks and then play them in tornaments and shit
No I'm not, your strawman extended even further than that, but this is proof enough.
>why would some bullshit homebrew basic land that you made up be ok but not my spell?
In a tournament? Because it was agreed upon, and further that it isn't retarded. Same goes for casual play really.

>>43704783
As long as we're talking about multiplayer EDH, all those cards are garbo. French is another story.

>>43704969
It's exactly how colorless mana works.
Wastes with a big (1) would've looked just stupid.

>>43704969
>>43704994
Fucking NO ONE knows how it works, can all you faggots shut the fuck up and stop pretending you know how it works when the info isn't out yet? No one gives a shit about your reasoning or your try at logic or whatever the fuck. When WotC releases info on how it works, we'll know how it works, until then anything anyone says on the subject is just wild speculation at best.

No, before anyone says fucking anything, it doesn't "have" to work any one way. Stop being a fucking retard.

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>>43705015
This is Kozilek messing with us. I tell ya!

Inb4 Spreading Wastes 1R Enchant Land Cantrip Enchanted Land is a Waste

>>43705015
>>43704994
Except for the fact that (1) and (<>) are different symbols and there's no rules baggage to suggest that (<>) has any extra rules baggage like snow did.

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>>43705051
>1R

>>43705051
I would say that would probably be black but Wizards has proven they don't give a shit about the color pie with all the Eldrazi shit in the last set so who the fuck knows anymore.

>>43705051
Development would probably price that around 3RR.

>>43704278
They've made similar changes in the past. Look at a Tempest Ancient Tomb vs. an FTV Ancient Tomb.

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>>43705060
"So I can only use a Blighted Cataract to cast my Lens of Clarity? The card asks for (1) and my Islands can only make (U)!"

>>43705060
And there's no reason to suggest that it can't have some extra rules baggage.

It's almost like we don't actually know.

>>43704931
Hm, you're right.
Then please tell me how what you see before you is not going to end up more parasitic than Ingest.

>>43705103
Ingest wasn't parasitic, you doofus. Milling your opponent has almost always at least a few cards per set.

>>43705080
Except for the fact that in the fucking rules it says you can pay for (1) with any color of mana. (<>) is just another colored symbol that requires a specific type of mana to pay for, which just happens to be generated exclusively by Wastes.

>>43705082
It's almost like you're being a huge faggot.

>>43705103
Ingest is not that terribly Parasitic.

>>43705116
>Except for the fact that in the fucking rules it says

This may come as a shock to you but did you know that with each new set new things get added to the rules or get clarifications?

>>43705132
Did you read the rest of my post where you were being a huge faggot? If you're not going to participate in speculation, the whole fucking point of the spoilers thread, then please fuck off.

>>43705147
Did you not read the rest of my posts where I claimed that "T: Add (1) to your mana pool" is highly likely now "T: Add (D) to your mana pool" from now on to differentiate between generic mana in costs from colorless mana in costs and the mana pool?

>>43705116
>being absolutely correct is the same thing as being a huge faggot

Well then

>>43705116
Well if it's in the rules then it for sure won't ever ever change, you are right. Hold on second while I get mana burned because by Cathodian died to a pumped Sakura-Tribe Elder which sacced itself before it could die to the damage on the stack. Also Mirrorpool adds <> and it isn't a waste, you retard.

>>43705175
Man it's a good thing you're being such a pedantic shit about literally everything, otherwise I wouldn't have known to disregard you completely. Have you thought of adopting a tripcode? I'm interested in subscribing to your filtration.

>>43705174
>Sucking titanic dicks every minute of every day doesn't make you a huge faggot somehow
Well then

>>43700793
Does the lack of a sub type really keep it from being a new basic land type though?

I mean, its not like Wizards is going to make an entire new type of mana along with cards that require said mana for only one expansion set of a block.

After OGW, Sol Ring will read:

T: Add <><> to your mana pool.

>>43705211
>I mean, its not like Wizards is going to make an entire new type of mana along with cards that require said mana for only one expansion set of a block.
SEE, YOU SAY THAT, BUT...

>>43705211
basic land type refers EXACTLY and specifically to such things as Forest in Basic Land - Forest.

Wastes are basic lands without a basic land type. It's that simple.

>>43705212
>Sol Ring adds two anuses to your pool


Hehehe, ring.

>>43705147
>Saying that wizards will errata {1} to be <> isn't speculation because I say so.
Sure thing little buddy.

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Ok its a 6th color quit tripping there trying to expand just like they did with planeswalkers its cool and ye the land is basic so you can have as many as possible I like it now we can come out with several new fetches and shocks

>>43705147
>the whole fucking point of the spoilers thread
Says fucking who

Also, speculation is one thing, but most people in here, most likely including you, are retarded apes going
>IT WILL WORK THIS WAY I KNOW IT FOR FACT WITH MY THROBBING INTELLECT

So fuck off.

>>43705253
Except that's the exact opposite of what I'm saying you illiterate fuck

>>43705278
>If you're not going to participate in speculation, the whole fucking point of the spoilers thread, then please fuck off.
>Saying that wizards will errata {1} to be <> isn't speculation because I say so.
>Saying something that contradicts your retaded speculation isn't speculation because I say so
Sure thing little buddy.

I don't know who's trolling whom anymore. Kozilek pls stop messing wif me. ;_;

>>43705276
>Extrapolating function based on the current rules is somehow bad and wrong
I'm sorry you don't know how the game works, anon, everyone was new once.

>>43705291
>ITT everyone should just state their opinions no matter how inane or retarded and no one should discuss anything.
Glad you're following suit

>>43705302
Except extrapolating function is impossible. It's just blind speculation. Even a judge couldn't tell you how these cards would work for sure because there's not remotely enough to go on. There are several ways it could work and no way to be sure which one it is. Not sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.

>>43705327
I'm a judge and on the basis of my rules knowlege I'm in favor of <> being colorless in mana producing cards and in colorless costs to make it different from the generic mana in costs.

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>>43702608
Based on this document they might be planning a colorless or <> Chandra in ogw

>>43705302
>>>Extrapolating function based on the current rules is somehow bad and wrong
Since rules change with every new set, I'm gonna go with yes.
>>43705310
How the fuck is it inane to say that they will errata or change shit when they do practically every set?

>>43705345
That's nice but you still can't say anything for sure. No one can. It's all just a crapshoot.

>>43705357
>How the fuck is it inane to say that they will errata or change shit when they do practically every set?
The scale of the errata is absolutely prohibitive. There is no way they will change the rules that will change the function of so many cards after what a headache the Great Creature Type Update was.

>>43705327
I'm actually a judge and every time there is a symbol in a cost it is usually tied to another symbol that corresponds to mana produced by another permanent. Snow being the notable exception but Wastes don't have the supertype to connect that specific precedent to.

>>43705357
Rules changes are not random. They change for a reason. It's to accommodate things and to clean up things. Cleaning up generic mana vs. colorless mana in the colorless matters block seems to be very likely.
You should read the entire rules. It will give you a deeper understanding why Magic works the way it does.

>>43705368
"You can't say the new spoiled island still makes blue mana! Maybe they change it in the rules for the new set!!!!!"

>>43705352
Don't we see chandra in that Oath promo art material where all the PWs are taking an Oath of some kind? She didn't seem to be that changed, unless they eldrazi and then un-eldrazi her in the course of the set like how Nissa was a shit in the middle of BFZ and then got her juice back by the end of the same block or with Ob and his spark.

>>43705368
Are you an agnostic too, you fence-sitting piece of garbage?

>>43705387
see
>>43705368

>>43705391
>Rules changes are not random.
Neither are they perfectly predictable until they are announced. Never have been, never will be.

>>43705400
>you have to pick one side in every argument even if both of those sides are being cockmongling retarded apes

Yeah I'm a fence sitter when it's the remotely intelligent choice you feces-munching mongoloid.

>>43705394
Has she ever appeared on bfz uncharted realms? Maybe we can get more info from there

>>43705435
Closing your eyes, covering your ears and shouting "U CNT NO!!!!1!!1!!" seems more like something a feces-munching mongoloid would do than actually providing evidence for his reasoning. Now let me ask you this, is the sun going to rise tomorrow?

>>43705115
>>43705117
>any of the ingest cards are good mill cards
>mill is relevant in any format
Maybe if one of these two things were true it wouldn't count as parasitic but they aren't.

>>43705387
>>43705391
But assuming this colorless/generic mana gets errata it won't be just for Oath but to open up design space for future sets also, like making a new subtype like equipment. MaRo has talked many times before about they trying to find a way to seperate colorless mana from generic {1},{2} etc mana costs for many reasons so it really doesn't like that far a stretch.

The problem with the Great Creature Type Update was that it was a case by case kind of deal, it wasn't a global errata just saying "From now on when you see Human it actually means Boar" but with something like this it's "easier" since the errata will be global "{1} is now <>, {2} is <><>, and so on" kinda like menace where a specific line of text was changed to "menace" across all cards said text was found. Can it really be that different going to "line of text"=menace to {1}=<>?

>>43705476
Parasitic has exactly nothing to do with whether something is good or not.

Devour has never ever been a good mechanic and it probably never will be unless they release a set without creatures.

Ingest still does something without the cards that supports it. Doesn't do much good, but it does something. Only stuff like Splice onto Arcane and cards like Moonmist can be said to be Parasitic.

>>43705485
Because (1) and (<>) are functionally different. They will not change the function of so many nonbasic lands by making them generate (<>). The only reason people are even considering this is because the mythic land produces (<>) when you tap it for mana, which is completely within it's function as an eldrazi land to do so. This goes against the precedent of nonbasics tapping for (1) and some people just don't get where the disconnect is.

>>43705212
No, Sol Ring will add {2}, which you can then use to cast a spell that costs <><>

>>43705519
I lost my point about Devour, the point is that it will always be shit, but it will never be parasitic until they release a set without creatures.

Ergo a card being parasitic has nothing to do with its viability.

>>43705539
Based on the mythic land producing (<>) I can safely say that this will not be the case

>>43705519
>Parasitic has exactly nothing to do with whether something is good or not.
Not what I was talking about exactly.
>Doesn't do much good, but it does something
This was what I was referring to, if half of the power of the card is taken up within the tribe then it is parasitic.
>Only stuff like Splice onto Arcane
But that's incredibly unfair, splice onto arcane cards are useful without arcane, only the splice ability is useless (aside from splicing onto other copies of itself) without other arcane cards. Ingest is entirely practically useless without processor cards, milling isn't ever going to happen outside of draft or dedicated mill decks, which would never play ingest cards. The fact that it *can* mill is as irrelevant as that arcanes *can* splice onto other copies of themselves.

>>43705529
>Because (1) and (<>) are functionally different.
They don't have to be is what I am saying. <> can pay for generic mana costs or <> mana costs and R (for example) can pay for generic mana costs or R mana costs giving this new type of mana a lack of cost overlap which the snow lands lacked thus making them redudant or not without as much design space as a trully new basic card type that can stick around and have uses outside of the block it's made in.

Maybe I think this is more likely or even desirable because making half a new color, a design move more bold than the last 3 years worth of sets, just for a small set and then just dumping it is beyond the realms of human retardation even for WotC.

>>43705610
Sure thing buddy

>>43705711
If (<>) could be paid for with (1), then why have the land tap for (<>) at all?

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NEW COLOR OF MANA

>>43703624
You forget that saying about the M:tG community.

HC SVNT AUTISTUS

>>43703624
I agree, having the color identity rule apply to only your commander and the mana you can produce instead of limiting which cards you can have in your deck based on their individual color identity would have alleviated this headache and the hybrid mana debate in one fell swoop

>>43702149
are you boreal right now?

>>43705116
You don't fucking know any of that.

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85KB, 526x370px

>>43705845
Yes I do

>>43705906
>colored symbol
You're saying it adds at 6th color in the game (rather than separating colorless mana from generic mana).

And you're sure of it.

Okay, then, better believe a random Anon spouting crap out of his ass on /tg/ of all places!

>>43705954
And you're splitting hairs. The fact of the matter is that there are new colorless symbols (<>) in the costs of creatures and abilities and new lands that generate mana that matches those symbols. It might not actually be a new "color" but it might as well be since they're making the distinction.

>>43705954
As I understand it it works like snow mana. However it must work different somehow or we would have gotten snow mana back.

Also I am not even sure how the full bleed card works. Without a land-type the card basically does nothing. Or they introduce a strange rule for this.

>>43706007
So you are saying that there are 2 types of colorless mana now, generic colorless and waste colorless? That sounds retarded even IF true.