/HHG/ Horus Heresy and 30k General

What would be in your preferred Contemptor Talon?

>>43697981
1 contemptor in a pod.

Probably Kheres, Cyclone launcher, and an internal gun of choice.

I don't think Contemptors are viable on their own. They need that pod to go places.

>>43697860
I know all legions had their own custom names for squads/companies/chapters, does anyone know what the Raven Guard did for theirs?

I want to write up some fluff and I'd like it to be accurate.

I would like it for them to be the survivors of a Company-sized force on Isstvan.

Would the survivors of a force of that size have access to

- 38 Taticals with 2 sargents, all fully equipped
- 10 mor dreythan
- 5 terminators
- a Contemptor
- 3 apothecaries
- 9 seekers
- 1 Chaplain
- 1 Captain (praetor)
- 10 dark furies
- 1 Fire Raptor
- 1 Dreadclaw

?

And the issue unit for me, having 2 Drop Pods. Would it be possible for the loyalists to have Drop Pods on Isstvan?

What do the RG name their Captains? (Shadow Captain?) Names for Dreads? Sarges?

Sorry for all the questions at once.

>>43697860
Question. How do I cataphractii?
I'm debating wolverine style and one claw one volkite.

Advise me Teeg.

>>43699326
I fail to see how paying 7ppm for a volkite gun is worth it.

Just go Claw+Bolter mixed with fist+bolter. It's 35 a model that way.

For my RG ones, I go a 5 man team in a Dreadclaw, 2 with Fist+bolter, 2 with claw+bolter, and a champ with 2 Raven Talons and Grenades. I magnetized in combi-weapons as well.

Whats a good escort for manslayer Sigismund? Terminators give him protection but he cant sweep advance once he chops them all (Though you could detach him from the unit before the charge, have the termies eat the overwatch and then Sigismund sweep the enemy unit if he wins) or a big tactical squad with CCWs? A bunch of attacks all at I5 does sound tasty.

How should I paint 30k night lords? Just midnight blue or did anyone have the lightening bolts back then?

Also do you buy all the FW upgrade bits like torso and shoulder pads and put them with GW marines or what.

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>>43700344
Book 2 is probably worth buying if you're going to do Night Lords, mostly because it's one of the more interesting ones.

>>43698366
or outflank

>>43697981

> 1 Contemptor
> 2 DCCW
> 2 embedded Graviton guns
> In a Dreadclaw

He arrives by Deep Strike. You get to Flat Out into a better position, and Jink enemy firepower. Then on the second turn, disembark into close combat. Along the way you can throw out 2 bubbled grav-shots to rip some HP off a Spartan.

>>43697981
I use a talon made up of one Contemptor with dual Kheres and one with dual plasma cannons. They basically act as troubeshooters for my footsloggers.
AA duty is handled by a Deredeo, so no Contemptor-Mortis, which saves me an Elite slot.
In the near future I plan on getting another Contemptor, this one a melee version with graviton guns and a chainfist, since I lack stuff that can actually crack open really heavy shit.

>>43699843
Lack of proper escorts is the biggest problem with Siggi, to be honest. Terminators make him more cumbersome, AP3 weaponry prevents his unit from actually engaging bodyguard units, Unwieldy neuters his neat charge bonus.
A baseline pile of Templar Brethren probably work best, but they are a far cry from being amazing in that role. Compare to Invictarius Suzerains and cry.

Which book has the instructions for Creating an ongoing campaign character?

>>43702121
Book 4

Anybody played Victory is Vengeance? How does it play? Is it Fun (tm)

So the idea of this is an aggressive force that get's in close and hacks the enemy down. But seriously I have no idea what to do with the sons of horus or those last 80 points.

pride of the legion

legion praetor 150
iron halo, paragon blade

2x legion rapier weapon battery 240(120)
quad mortar

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad 330
10 vets, pa, ps, aa, dreadclaw

legion terminator squad 205
5 terminators, 4 pf, cf

legion jetbike sky hunter squadron 150
3 jetbikes. mm, mb

legion storm eagle assault gunship 275
extra armor, mm, lascannons

2x fire raptor gunship 420(210)
reapers

1770 total

Tactical Support squads on foot: Actually useful or a vulnerable waste of points?
I am currently agonizing over how to equip ten of these guys, arranged as two five-man units in support of my Tactical blobs.
I also have enough meltas and plasmaguns to equip the unit, but at +15pts a pop I don't really want to invest that much.
Flamers would be useful on the terrain-heavy tables we often play on, volkite calivers would provide some nice anti-infantry shooting with good range and could also tackle light and medium vehicles in a pinch.
Opinions? And please don't say one squad of each weapon; that wouldn't really work with the army's theme of duality and symmetry.

This box is gold

I bought one for myself then split a second with a bro.

Was able to make 2 tac squads, a vet squad, 2 support squads and a heavy support squad, all with all the trimming and upgrades you could ever want

>>43702272
I could never bring myself to field a unit of them without a pod or rhino.

They seem too expensive and short ranged for anything but alpha striking.

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>>43700344
Currently painting my Calth box up for Night Lords, just dont get sucked into painting them like dark Ultramarines and you will be cool bro.

Is there any chance FW would release the destroyer squad kit in a different mark of armour? That or the rad missile launchers sold on their own would be great for me.

I love the idea and fluff behind them but not only am I not a big fan of maximus armour in the first place but it feels like it's not the sort of armour you would hand out to those who are supposedly disliked by the rest of the legion. You'd also think that having more protection at the joints like earlier marks do would be better for the job too.

>>43697981
Full Talon? I'm waiting on a FW order then I'll have:

>Kheres, Chainfist
>Kheres, Chainfist
>x2 TL Volkite Culverin

The Kheres/Fist loadout is great for running interference and is always a threat.

>>43701775
I've used this before, combo with Mauns 18" no-scatter bubble for maximum carnage.

>>43698608
post-isstvan they broke up the company remnants into the Raptors, Hawks, Falcons, and Talons.

They also use assembled units, like your list, as strike forces. Example: Strike Captain Maun leads Strikeforce Nightfall and his designation is, aptly, "Nightfall One". So you could make your own strike force "X" and have the Captain "X one" and so on

>>43702272
Depends on loadout. I'm about to make a 10man caliver squad to hold back objectives.

What legion are you? RG and AL's infiltrate makes them all good on foot for example.

>>43702213
Digital lasers for Praetor and another specialist weapon for +2 attacks total is a must

Any news, speculation, or wishlisting for the Dark Angels?

I hope they get some kind of proto-Ravenwing Black Knights with better weapons options.

>>43702858
I'm hoping the dreadwing gets some spooky as fuck weaponry choices that aren't just "rad but better".

All i can say about this game is that i wish GW would die and let someone that cares more about a good game and less about filling pockets with cash took over

>>43702879
Thank you for your input

>>43702879
Wrong thread, try here >>43693495

>>43702879
What a wonderful contribution. Now go away.

>>43702879
Sorry to break it to you anon, but when push comes to shove, every company cares more about its bottom line than it does about you. Don't like it? Write your own rules or download some off the web.

>>43702879
Keep your shitty insight to the 40k General. Adults are talking here.

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>>43702934
Adults on 4chan.

>>43703094
>dipshits
Are you 12?

Putting together half of the battle of calth box and I'm not sure how to equip my tacticals.

Which heavy/combi/specials are worth equipping? I'm still reading through the 30k rules, so I'm not clear on what weapons are best for what .

>>43703134
if you only have one box build them all with bolters, and maybe the combat knife if you feel like it. Tac squads in 30k dont take special weapons, thats what your support squads do.

The sarge honestly take whatever you feel suits them best. I like mine having Powerfists.

Right, I need your help on something. There's a fair bit of debate on here about Primarchs being Autistic, and I want the complete list of who is considered autistic and why. There may be some pay off for it as well.

>>43703273
Dorn
>plays minecraft irl
Lion
>poor social skills to the point of unnoticed traitors, put everything in his legion in order
Angron
>REEEEEEEEEEEEE
Russ
>living out his fursona dreams, single minded and rages when things go against his wants

Any word from Scananon? What's the situation with the next rulebook scan?

>>43703327
Replace Angron with Perterabo and you might be on to something

>>43702566
Those look like dark ultramarines.

>>43703273
They're all autistic, that's the trick.

So if I wanted to play an army with a bunch of footslogging marines, Terminators and Contemptors with not a lot of tanks what Legion should I pick, I heard Death Guard were pretty good

>>43704142

yeah, DG is a decent choice for that strat

>>43704142
You pretty much described Death Guard.

>>43704142
Yes, DG are *the* footslogger's army. Others can do that too, but nobody but maybe World Eaters do it as well (and WE have exactly two viable builds: infantry horde rush and infantry horde rush in assault transports). It helps that your unique terminators are both cheap as chips and scarily durable while still packing a lot of offensive punch. It's not unusual to see DG forces without even a single vehicle outside dreads.

>>43704201
Yeah most of my army is on foot with dreds except for a Spartan full of Deathshrouds.

>>43704201
Just to make sure I'm not being retarded here (just starting the game alongside 90% of the people ITT as of late) but am I right in thinking that as the deathshroud are all characters they can look our sir wounds off each other? If so holy shit that's got to be a tanky as fuck unit to the point where I think I might even feel bad about running them as my HQ.

>>43702213
>2 Fire Raptors

40k fag detected. If your local 30k playerbase is anything like mine, showing up with 2 Fire Raptors will get you perma-shunned. Have fun playing your 30k army vs. 40k tards.

>>43704264
If they are all characters then they can all Look out sir. It also means you can choose whos taking the challenge.

>>43704448
In my 2 or 3 years browsing HHG I've never heard someone complain about bringing lots of Fire Raptors.

>>43704264
IIRC they're chosen warriors but I don't think they are all characters.

>>43704448
Anyone bringing 2 Fire Raptors will probably be ridiculed for sinking as many points into a mediocre unit that are just about to be scythed out of the air by a Deredeo.
Iron Warriors can make them work by making the most of the mobile Pinning quad-HBs, but outside of that they aren't *that* hot. Especially considering how ubiquitous Deredeos, Contemptor-Mortis and Sicarians are nowadays.

>>43704264
They don't have the characters unit type so theyre not characters.

>>43697860
>contempt
Coming right up! But seriously, folks, is this model as shitty as the photos make it look? Those legs look like Lego bricks stacked straight up.

>>43704770
>Those legs look like Lego bricks stacked straight up.
That's Forge World for you

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>>43704264
Yes, they are all characters, and yes, that makes the lot tanky as fuck.
Just stay the hell away from anything rocking powerfists. Taking on bodyguard units and similar is not their forte, but they are phenomenal at mulching blobs.
>>43704762
They totally do, actually.

>>43704770
Yeah, the legs are pretty damn awful. The rest of the plastic dread is easily reposed, even the head can be turned with fairly little effort, but the legs resist all efforts to make them less crap.

What was FW thinking when they didn't give Militia platoons? Auxilia got their "platoons", but with Militia you're stuck with 6 units as Troops. So either I specialize with the Provenances, spam, or have a batch of a little bit of everything that's not really great at anything.

So around 100 tacticals in I'm beginning to hate BaC, Especially since the two legions I'm doing don't have conversion kits yet which means tons of bitz and greenstuffing.

>>43704908
Yiffs and Tsons then?

>>43704908
Is pacing a foreign concept to you?

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I RIDE, I RIDE THE WINDS THAT BRING THE RAIN
A CREATURE OF LOVE AND I CAN'T BE TAMED

>>43705247
Deep shit brah.

Hits me right where I live.

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>>43702566
>says don't paint them like dark Ultramarines
does just that..

>>43704785
Uh, no, it's the very opposite. Forgeworld's models have posture, it's just the limitations of the plastic sprue that force the lego look.

>>43704762
>>43704798

He was probably looking at book 1. The entries are different. Theyre just infantry in Betrayal.

>>43705641
Tbh, the contemptor is the worst part of the whole kit. They really cut corners on it, when they could just have split up the upper and lower legs with a joint in the middle. I don't understand how GW can produce amazing modular, fully posable kits , then drop shit like this contemptor (you cant even pose the arms properly) and the dreadknight.

>>43704928
Yep. With Prospero allegedly coming next year I wanted to get a headstart.

>>43705054
No but free time is. I have a couple of days off for the first, and last time, in a while. If I don't get them done now I'll have to resort to 30minutes here and there, which based on my past experiences, does not work well for me.

>>43698608
I don't think that Ravenguard actually has unique names for positions like Space Wolves or Black Templars. The closest is that one Ravenguard formation in 40k. Also having that many Tac Marines and no Scouts (Legion Reconnaisance Squad in 30k) isn't very fluffy in terms of Ravenguard. Need more infiltration stuff.

>>43697981
Nothing cuz I am a Word Bearers guy so

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought>>>Contemptor Dreadnought

But I don't run any Dreadnoughts cuz

Two Lords of War level Daemon Princes>>>Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnoughts>>>Contemptor Dreadnoughts

>>43705651
So which is the most up to date? I'm the guy that originally asked about them.

>>43704770
The Contemptor in BaC is terrible. The legs are posed so bad..
I bought two boxes and Im selling the 2nd Contemptor sprue along with both Command sprues.

>>43704529
There hasnt been an HHG for 2 or 3 years. They just started appearing this year. So Im gonna go out on a limb and say you're full of shit.

>>43705973
The Legions Astartes one is, the one where they are characters.

>>43705976
At least it's easy to chop up if you really hate the look.

>>43705923
All Raven Guard non-jump, non-terminator infantry has infiltrate. RG Tacs are infiltrating scouts with better armor and less weapon choices. But RG has better sniper options anyway, and he has 10 of them so I'd say it's sufficiently fluffy.

Recon squads are for the other legions who need specialized troops to fill that role.

>>43705691
Occam's Razor suggests pure laziness. Same reason why the head on the Chaplain is fixed for no reason.

>>43706004
The term HHG started this month. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

>>43707026
That's a pretty lazy Occam's Razor.

They could have just as well made it to not compete with the resin kit. "What about Mk. IV bodies and cataprachtii?" I hear you ask. Conversion kits, anon. Already FW has jumped on the "buy this plastic kit of plain bodies and our legion upgrade kits to go along with them!" It takes off the pressure to produce basic stuff from FW while letting them make money selling on bits to pretty up those plain kits. Mk. IV is pretty popular among people, and a simple design overall (lots of smooth surfaces, not so segmented like 2 and 3, or bumpy as 5. Good kit the make a test kit for to see how it'll fare.

>>43706703
I'm not normally a 30k player, but what your describing makes the 30k Raven Guard seem like they play almost identically to my tournament Raptors Army.

How easy is it for you to bring an all-infiltrating army to a large game? What are your restrictions, and what kind of support can you bring with them? With Raptors I'm limited to just 3 squads and their Dedicated Transports by extension, and that's if I bring Lias Issodon.

>>43707112
To be fair, the plastic Contemptor wouldn't have competed too much with the resin ones. As the legion specific bodies are very desirable, and the weapon loadout is a lot more flexible on the FW version.

>>43707134

> Legiones Astartes: Infiltrate

It applies to every infantry unit with the exception of Terminators. Obviously it means Tacticals, but also extends to the weirder shit like Rapier Batteries and Castellax-via-Praevian. There is some debate as to whether it affects Jump Infantry; RAW yes, RAI probably not.
The things that cannot Infiltrate are Terminators, Bikes/Jetbikes and Vehicles.

Thanks to Rapiers being brutally undercosted, Raven Guard can potentially play without any vehicles and hence play null-deployment, with literally the entire army Infiltrating. Just need to stockpile sufficient amounts of graviton weapons to deal with Spartans.
Anti-air might suffer though.

>>43707299

Should probably clarify that Dedicated Transports *do* still inherit Infiltrate from their parent squad. Combine a Scout (Destroyer, Mor Deythan) with a Rhino and you can pretty much guarantee your unit will be exactly where it needs to be Turn 1, easily getting into flamer ranges.

So When can I expect Space Wolf rules?

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>>43707299
Hard to tell on the wording

>>43707112
That hypothesis is considerably more elaborate that the one I postulated.

The meaning of Occam's Razor is "all things equal, the simpler is more likely". You can't be too "lazy" with it.

>>43707442
I thought that Occams razor is "eliminate all impossible, rest must be true how improbable"

>>43707439
Rapier batteries aren't infantry, they're considered Artillery and Crew. So no by that wording they wouldn't get infiltrate, as it's for infantry only. That being said, since infantry's DTs inherit their Infiltrate, you really should consider bringing Razorbacks for all your squads. It's always good to have armor on the table in order to mix up the damage types.

>>43706006
Eh, not really. The feet are buried in the legs and bent. The knee joints arent very conducive to changing either. Cutting anything but the hip joints and the waist/torso joint would require significant green stuff sculpting.

>>43707442
You can, if you let personal opinions about the subject affect it.

Got a question with my Imperial Fists army. If I take the Stone Gauntlet Rite Of War, am I still allowed to use the Onslaught Force Organization Chart? It reduces the compulsory troop requirement to 1, but there's 1 compulsory Heavy Support requirement, you can take more Heavy Support and Lords of War overall, but less overall troops and fast attack. For me and this army, this means I don't need to have two Breacher Squads since those are mandatory compulsory choice for The Stone Gauntlet. I would rather have a support Predator hanging in the back with Conversion beamer than another Breacher Squad which would be a waste points/space wise.

2500 points

---HQ---

Sigismund - 230 points

Alexis Polux - 165 points


---Troops---

(20) Legion Breacher Squad - 455 points
-Solarite Gauntlet for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Melta-bombs for everyone

(20) Phalanx Warder Squad - 520 points
-4 Solarite Gauntlets
-Solarite Gauntlet for Veteran Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Veteran Sargent
-Melta Bombs for Veteran Sargent


---Elites---

(6) Legion Terminator Squad - 325 points
-Cataphractii Terminator Armor
-Solarite Gauntlets for everyone
-Vigil Pattern Storm Shields for everyone


---Heavy Support---

Legion Predator - 125 points
-Heavy Conversion Beamer
-Extra Armor

---Dedicated Transports---


Phalanx Warder Squad

Spartan Assault Tank - 340 points
-Laser Destroyers
-Extra Armor
-Armored Ceramite
-Flare Shield

Legion Breacher Squads

Spartan Assault Tank - 340 points
-Lascannons
-Extra Armor
-Armored Ceramite
-Flare Shield
>>43706703
I mentioned it for the less weapon choices. Another thing 30k is doing right that 40k needs to learn from is snipers. Veterans or Recons with snipers are pretty deadly stuff when ran by Ravenguard guys.

>>43707134
Raptors are also scout/infiltrate heavy like Ravenguard, no?

>>43697860
Damocles
Master of the signal
Centurion - Cataphractii Armor - Chain Fist - Combi Bolter
Justaerin Terminator Squad (3) x3 Chain Fists + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Justaerin Terminator Squad (3) x3 Chain Fists + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Reaver Attack Squad (10) x5 Chain Axe - x3 Power Weapon - x2 Flamer - 1 Handflamer - Meltabombs + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Reaver Attack Squad (10) x5 Chain Axe - x3 Power Weapon - x2 Flamer - 1 Handflamer - Meltabombs + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Reaver Attack Squad (10) x5 Chain Axe - x3 Power Weapon - x2 Flamer - 1 Handflamer - Meltabombs + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Terminator Squad - (10) x6 Thunder hammers - x4 Power Axe - x2 Plasma Blaster
Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter - x2 Twin-linked Autocannon - Battle Servitor Controls
Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter - x2 Twin-linked Autocannon - Battle Servitor Controls
Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter - x2 Twin-linked Autocannon - Battle Servitor Controls
Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer - Armored Ceramite - Dozer Blade
Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer - Armored Ceramite - Dozer Blade
Horus The Warmaster

Total: 4000pts

Rate it.

>>43707509

The crew are Legion Space Marines, with unit type (Infantry). There's no issue with this one; a model in the unit can Infiltrate, and so the gun inherits it despite being artillery.
30k don't get Razorbacks.

Considering >>43707439
it's because Jump Infantry are still considered Infantry in all respects, plus a bunch of extra terms added on. From this wording they are therefore qualifying for *both* parts of the Legion rule and would gain Infiltrate, Fleet and Furious Charge.
Still wouldn't make Assault Marines worth it

>>43707509
No razorbacks for HH. Only rhinos and land raiders

>>43707562
> "Raptors are also scout/infiltrate heavy like Ravenguard, no?"
Look at it this way:
Raven Guard: "I'm going to sneak up on my enemy, and then JUMP ON THEM WITH MY JETPACK!"
Raptors: "I'm going to sneak up on my enemy, and then assassinate them with my rending bolters"

Raptors in 40k use the raven guard tactics, but they also gain rending bolters. But their special character Lias Issodon gives a shit-ton of buffs; one of which gives 3 of your squads Infiltrate. So yea, they absolutely love Scout/infiltrate armies, but it's also quite notable that their true scout marines don't require sniper rifles.

>>43702784
>>43704448
>>43704747
You guys really made me consider some other options how does this look for some larger games. Also I really wish tip of the spear worked on vehicles.

Sons of Horus

pride of the legion

legion praetor 165
iron halo, paragon blade, digital weapon

2x legion terminator squad 285
5 terminators, 4 pa, cf, dread claw

legion terminator squad 205
5 terminators, 4 lc, cf

legion terminator squad 185
5 terminators, 4 pa, cf

2x legion storm eagle assault gunship 440(220)
extra armor

2x fire raptor gunship 400(200)

2x arvus lightning strike fighter 430(215)
4 kraken penetrator missiles, battle servitor, ground tracking

2495

>>43707593

I rate it Justaerin/10.
> 4000pts
> 46 infantry models

Reavers are nice, but they work better as generalists than dedicated assault units. Banestrike Bolters will clear far more enemies than you will from an assault, and they'll do it for cheaper and from range.

>>43707663
Interesting. But Bane strike have a range of 9" (rapid fire) - 18". Why does a limited range rapid fire bolter do a better job than five attacks on the charge per model?

So seeing as 30k threads attract decent autism...

What mark of power armor did Space Wolves use most often?

And how should I go about starting a fluff friendly collection of 30k Space Wolves?

>>43707517
Simplicity is not a matter of opinion.

>>43702566

It's too bright to do proper lightning over the armor but you can just run them as ultras instead

>>43702053
Not the guy you were talking to, but I've been mulling over the idea of having Sigismund run around with a pair of paragon blade praetors. It's a lot of points and I'd feel retarded putting three guys in a land raider, but it's a horrifying amount of choppy and actually benefits from all of Siggy's rules.

>>43707624
Damn that's pretty useful especially in current edition 40k where sniper rifles are useless due to how low a chance there is for them to rend. Though in 30k you can give the Legion Veteran Tactical Squad (an elite unit) the Sniper rule with any weapon. Combine that with the Ravenguard 'make everyone infiltrate' Veterans are pretty beastly. Sniper Rifles themselves don't suck in 30k so Recon Squad (the 30k scout squad) can kick ass, too.

Speaking of this, I am also considering dropping a couple guys from each of my troop squads, drop the predator so I can use the Fists special rule for massive regular bolter damage.

>>43707476
Nope, that's Sherlock Holmes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

"Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected."

Or in other words, the law of parsimony. A simple heuristic.

>>43707763
Sniper rifles don't have true rending: They can't glance vehicles to death easily. In the case of Raptors getting a single shot with rending, it completely and utterly changes the game of what my tacticals can threaten. Like for example, Glancing Rhinos from the Front, and Glancing Leman Russ' tanks from the side. Or if I'm feeling frisky, I can easily punish gunlines of tanks by spreading my fire around to spam low-level penetrations to lock down tanks for a turn. Infiltrating 6 combat squads would also mean that I can very easily plop down my guys into good positions for pen-spamming the side armor of tanks and walkers.

You know what, one of these days I'm going to see how my raptors do against a 30k Raven Guard army. I don't mind playing against 30k, if anything it's pretty damn cool to see the differences in how they play first hand(Like having my command squad get vaporized by a goddamn action movie hero Moritat).

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>>43702566
This is the only proper way to do NLs. Metallic base with a mix of Tamiya Clear Red and Clear Blue.

>>43707299
>>43707439
It's pretty unambiguous that Jump Infantry do NOT get infiltrate. HH uses the same rulebook as 7e 40k. Infantry and Jump infantry are mutually exclusive terms.

>>43702879

Actually GW is finally realizing this as they can no longer blame the dwindling economy for all their problems that they do, in fact, have a serious image problem.

That's why they're bringing back specialist games, in hopes of getting more old customers with money back.

I'm not saying GW is now magically saved and all good again, but it's a start. They are financially viable again, now they just need to create products people want.

>>43707421
Late next year, probably. It sounds like the next book (early 2016) will be about the Blood Angels and some of the other legions that haven't been covered yet.

FW says Thousand Sons and Space Wolves are different enough in organization and rules that they’ll have their own book, and that works with the fluff anyway. As an example of rules being different, Thousand Sons’ psychic powers will be unique. Haven’t heard what makes the Space Wolves so different, but it was part of the rumor.

>>43707747
Neither is reality.

I might as well claim 9/11 was an inside job, because it's a way simpler than assuming a whole host of unfortunate events led to what happened.

>>43707787
So, how is it more simple to assume a company just didn't care, rather than they did it for profitable reasons?

So I'm thinking, would it be possible to make a luna wolves detatchment with Loken for after istvaan? I know it took a while to get him back to normal, but were there any other luna wolves?

Also does anyone have instructions to a knight styrix?

>>43707562
He's got 10 Mor Deythan though so he can get snipers that rend on 5's for one turn. So I still don't see a need for recon squads.

>>43704908

You could just leave off the heads and shoulders and prep them for when the kits come out so you only have to do those?

>>43707853

>no lightning

It would be more believable if you had said AL

So since I can't use Skitarii models in 30k, I guess I'm playing Solar Auxilia alongside Mechanicum.

I've got
10 Skitarii with rifles
10 Skitarii with radcarbines
3 Thallax
5 Adsecularis
5 Ruststalkers
Some scattered Elysians
10 metal Kasrkin
10 chaos cultists with autoguns
1 Helbrute model
1 Khorgorath model
1 Archmagos
1 actual Solar Auxilia model with a rifle


What can I do with this? Think I could run the Helbrute and Khorgorath as Castellax with some green stuff?

>>43707608
>it's because Jump Infantry are still considered Infantry in all respects, plus a bunch of extra terms added on. From this wording they are therefore qualifying for *both* parts of the Legion rule and would gain Infiltrate, Fleet and Furious Charge.
No. Are you serious. Unit type: Infantry and Unit type: Jump Infantry are two seperate mutually exclusive unit types. Look at the entry for assault marines, dark furies and it says Unit Type: Jump Infantry. It does not say Unit Type: Infantry so they do not gain the rules for Infantry. It's actually very unambiguous RaW.

>>43707853
I would have retconned some of the color schemes to liven up the palettes. The list of primary legion colors isn’t bad, but there are three black loyalist legions and that’s a total waste. There are two blue traitor legions, and in the FW books they’re both shown as metallic darkish blue. (Though it’s not that bad because one has a bit of purple the other has a bit of green.)

Loyalists:
Black x3 (Dark Angels, Iron Hands, Raven Guard)
White
Blue-Gray
Yellow
Red
Blue
Green

Traitor:
Purple
Gunmetal
Blue x2 (Night Lords, Alpha Legion)
White x2 (World Eaters, Death Guard)
Red
Sea Green
Dark Red

>>43707979
Heads were actually some of the easier bits since I used some 3rd party heads for squad leaders and Instant Mold casts of the crests from normal TSons heads for the regular guys.

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How wrong would it be to use the Tech-Priest Dominus as a magos on an abeyant? The mode's pretty tall and on a 50mm base, so 60 shouldn't be much larger for it.

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>>43708026

> Pictured: confusion

>>43707593
it's okay but veterans seem like a better choice then reavers since horus makes them troops. I can understand taking one squad for anti infantry but three seems extreme. Why take two justaerin's over another small terminator squad? I can understanding taking one so you have a drop pod with room for the master of signal and horus if that's your thing.

>>43708170
>pictured: level of reading comprension = zero

It's talking about the unit type rules you retard, is not saying that jump infantry count as normal infantry. Otherwise all jump infantry would be able to embark into transports, and all those that allows it specifically to be embarked would be written for nothing.

>>43708299
Jump infantry CAN embark on transports though you dumbshit. They're just bulky, which makes it harder to fit a full squad in certain transports.

>>43708323
>Jump infantry CAN embark on transports though

No they cant, unless the transport itself says something otherwise (Like the Stormraven) only infantry can get in transports.

>>43708342
>Rite Of War: The Stone Gauntlet
>Onslaught Force Organization Chart

You cant use Rites of War AND Onslaught/Castellan/Leviathan force organization charts, its one or the other.

I ran out of space in my previous post. Continuing my replies.

>>43707923
Mor Deythan also work better with having crazy twin linked weapons than necessarily making them snipers. Rending TL Flamers in particular.

>>43707840
Ravenguard in 30k are like a combo between regular Ravenguard and Raptors. Sure you can get yourself their legion specific Dark Fury Assault Squad, but more likely than not you're gonna have infiltrated Tac Marines, Veteran Squads with the Sniper tactic sniping with any of their weapons (even missile launchers and lascannons!) You'll have Mor Deythan Strike Squads that'll mass Rend using twin linked flamers.

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>>43708367
>>43708323

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>>43708323
>Jump infantry CAN embark on transports though you dumbshit.

>>43708397
About time somebody answered this question for me. No Sigismund for me then since we Imperial Fists right now and Templar stuff in 30k is meh.

Rite of War: The Stone Gauntlet


---HQ---

Alexis Polux - 165 points


---Troops---

(20) Legion Breacher Squad - 360 points
-Solarite Gauntlet for Sargent
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Melta-bombs for Sargent

(10) Legion Breacher Squad - 230 points
-Melta-bombs for Sargent

(20) Phalanx Warder Squad - 505 points
-4 Solarite Gauntlets
-Solarite Gauntlet for Veteran Sargent
-Melta-bombs for Sargent


---Elites---

(10) Legion Terminator Squad - 525 points
-Cataphractii Terminator Armor
-Solarite Gauntlets for everyone
-Vigil Pattern Storm Shields for everyone

(10) Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 250 points
-2 Heavy Bolters and Suspendor Webs
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Veteran Tactics: Sniper

---Heavy Support---

(10) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 460 points
-10 Lascannons
-Tank Hunter (Imperial Fists Special Rule)
-Entire squad has hardened armor

>>43708031
I've done my own colour analysis of the Legiones, let's see here:

Dark Angels: Black, red as mild secondary
White Scars: White with red, yellow and brown accessories
Space Wolves: Grey, black, red and yellow all as symbols and such
Imperial Fists: Yellow, black, white and red as symbols

I think we're already seeing a bit of a problem with black, red, yellow and white. Warm and monochrome colours lead.

Blood Angels: Red, chiefly black symbols with some yellow or blue; Gold prominent on Leaders
Iron Hands: Black, silver or white secondary
Ultramarines: Blue, gold and white accessories
Salamanders: Green, with all of black, orange and brass as accesories.
Raven Guard: Black, white symbols.

A lot of black and red, fair amount of white and yellow, some blue and metallic colours, one example of green, grey and orange, all as leads except orange, no purple. Black is a lead colour three times. Other leads are Red, Yellow, Green, Blue, White, Grey. Let's have a look at the traitors:

Emperor's Children: Purple, white and gold accessories
Iron Warriors: Metallic Grey, brass and black/yellow detail
Night Lords: Dark Blue, dark red accessories, lightning bolt decal provies lighter blue and white
World Eaters: White, blue secondary, red for symbols

Already a much more diverse palette. Four different primaries and total range includes red, blue, grey, yellow, black, white, purple and metallic colours. Slight bias towards blue.

Death Guard: Off-white, grey-green secondary
Thousand Sons: Magenta-Crimson, gold, white and green as accessories
Sons of Horus: Black and Dark Green primaries, brass and dark red secondaries
Word Bearers: Dark Red and Dark Grey primaries, brass for accessories
Alpha Legion: Chiefly Dark Blue-Cyan primary but with any shade between Sea-Green and Indigo-Purple turning up, silver accessories

The traitors don't really have much issue in the colour balance department. Slight biases towards blue and green, not much yellow and a darker tone(1/2)

>>43708397
Where does it say that? I need to check it, please

>>43708430
>Dark Fury Assault Squad

Please tell me these guys are good. I want to gib Praetors in their Spartans.

>>43708506
overall, but two groups are white primarily. Purple gets three representations, one of them primary, and even orange is in there (forget to mention it as part of Word Bearer's iconography - incidentally the Word Bearer's dark red sometimes leans on the purple). And the traitor's preference for blue and green helps to imbalance the loyalist avoidance of these colours.

So what do we have? First, the real problems with balance lie in the nine loyalist legions. Second, the overall scheme is dark, with three black primaries, two dark hue primaries and one split between then, but this IS the setting that coined the term grimdark so that might be acceptable. Lots of yellow accesories among the loyalists but only one primary. One green and one dark green split primary but barely one case of green accesorie. Red, blue and white all see fair representation in primary and secondary form without overpowering anything. Patriotic. Three schemes are very similar - black with white symbols. This is a bit of a problem, albeit one ameliorated post-Heresy by the Dark Angels (upping the green quota as a result).

Conclusion? The trifecta of black-with-white loyalists is a bit boring and the loyalists in general are a smidge limited, but otherwise the colours are okay. Changing up the schemes of one or both of the Iron Hands and Raven Guard, and inserting some purple into the mix, seem like good steps to take.

>>43708602
You're in luck. Raven Guard have great exclusives, if you ignore the Duckship.

>>43708126
A tad, as an abeyant is pretty large by Mr. Cyclothrathe's standards. It's better than nothing, but the height is a key part of the model.

>>43708602
Great squad. Everyone armed with twin lightning claws. 5+ Cover save when arriving through deep striking. Highly recommend attaching a Chaplain for what you're tryna do, though 1d4chan's suggestion of attaching a Librarian with Shrouding for 3++ save is a decent idea, too.

>>43708633
Duckship is good for everything but its transport capacity though. Hell since most people don't max out Termies they are great for bringing Termies.

>>43708621
>>43708506
Truly another demonstration of why Word Bearers and Thousands Sons are so amazing. I feel you on the warm and monochrome colors thing as that's what I paint >>43708501 guys.

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>>43708536
First couple of pages of the crusade army list book.

>>43707860
I thought jump infantry is infantry with jump. Like jump monstrous creature.

does it make sense, canon wise, to have a word bearers chaplain within a sons of horus army?

>>43709018
Yes. Erebus even rolled with Horus for a while.

>>43709049
awesome. I bought the plastic one off ebay and wanted to paint it word bearers colours, but didnt know if it would fit thematically with my sons of horus army

>>43708836
Hmm. Doing a bit of a ready-pead, and the Darkwing pays about 25pts over the stock Storm Eagle, and loses 4 slots, in exchange for Stealth, Outflank and Blind on its big missile launcher. It also has a lot less options. Blind is pretty neat on a weapon with two large blasts, as it can almost certainly get one wound on a terminator squad and force a Blind Test, however it's not effective against lone Monsters or it's normal target of massed cheap infantry. Is Outflank hot on a Flyer? Stealth is sort-of a 6 Invulnerable, plus a bonus when Jinking or whatever it's called, but as a transport this wants to be in Hover mode. The transport limit really is a bummer, as you'll want your Terminators Dark Furies to have a character with them or maybe two so it's only six or seven models, not very points efficient.

On the Word Bearers and Thousands Sons, what do you take from my analysis that makes them amazing? That they have a bit of green and orange in them? That's cool but it's not exactly hot sauce like the Alpha Legion, Sons of Horus or World Eaters.

>>43709018
Lots of legions got WB chaplains after the Edict of Nikaea

>>43708706
It's just hard to get good numbers on them. I'm just looking into alternative abeyant models. Not a fan of the techno-squid.

>>43708974
Thanks, I'm a legio cybernetica player and needed to know

>>43708126
get height/base dimensions for the magos, then construct an addon base that u can fit the tech-priest on top of, like what the FW primarchs have

>>43707913
New book should have something like that with Shattered Legions I guess.

>>43709168
>Darkwing
When you're playing Ravenguard, you wanna either deep strike or Infiltrate almost everything you have options for both. Due to their special rules and Rite of War they can do that with almost anything. The best way of infiltration that's there for Terminators/other heavy elite units is the Darkwing. In terms of the fighting part, the Darkwing is best against the kind of units I like to use flyers on: Scatbike type sons of bitches. Very useful against any biker type stuff so Scatbikes, CSM Slaanesh Biker build, White Scars Scarblade Strike Force, Dark Angels Ravenwing, etc.

>Colors
Well, outside of the fact that I am a huge Word Bearers and Thousand Sons fanboy? Well, your analysis sorta says it in of itself. So you got the Loyalist guys who are all either black n white or close to it in some way or warm monochrome. Then you got the Alpha Legion, Sons of Horus, and World Eaters who do striking contrasts there being a darker color and a lighter one. Word Bearers' color scheme is interesting because they have the brass there with the Dark Red to do the more striking colors thing of Chaos legions while also having the brighter orange in there which brings a warmer contrast compared to everything else they have. Not only that their outlining and symbols aren't just brass, but a combination of yellowish-brown brass and silverish grey. Basically I like their color scheme because it's a combination of being warmer like the Loyalist schemes and more striking like Chaos schemes. Also the fact that the strikingness is achieved without having to go on opposite sides of the color wheel is cool, too.

Thousand Sons are cool because where as Word Bearers color scheme achieves everything the Loyalist and Chaos schemes both do with warmer colors and striking colors using primarily darker colors, Thousand Sons does so with lighter colors.

>>43709199
>Wants to play mechanicum
>Doesn't like techno squids
01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 01110011 01111001

>>43709803
I don't like THAT techno-squid.

Will IF get legion specific terminators eventually?

>>43709688

I find that the Darkwing tries to do everything and ends up accomplishing nothing. It's got mismatched weapons and Machine Spirit isn't enough to correct that IMO.
It has 2 Lascannon ports, a Heavy Bolter, and the missile rack. Immediately this puts us in a position of wasting the Heavy Bolters- Shoot everything at a tank, and then Machine Spirit the Eclipse into some infantry. Unless you've Outflanked into an arc where those Heavy Bolters can work. The Stormeagle can swap those for Multi-Meltas but the Darkwing has no such option, hence a wasted weapon system.

Similarly the Eclipse is fucking awesome on paper; Concussive knocks them to I1, and then Blind is an Initiative test!
But Concussive only works on unsaved wounds and so your average joe is going to be killed rather than blinded. Even if you carpet bomb a big squad, it's always *one test* for the whole unit and it will always be on majority Initiative (4).
Realistically you've traded 1 point of Strength for a 1-in-3 chance to Blind, which is honestly a pretty bum deal. Coupled with 'losing' the nose weapons and the Stormeagle being a pretty mediocre platform to begin with, and its not looking great.
Stealth is genuinely brilliant however, especially with Jink. As is Outflank, situationally. It's not worth 30pts, along with the nose and S5 blasts, though.

Just about the best use I can see is Outflanking into a vehicle, dropping off the dudes and then dancing between Jink and Las-Spam. But it's a very, very expensive platform to do that.

>>43705691
>>43707026

Actually since FW supposedly did BaC, they're likely responsible for the models, not the GW Design Studio.

>>43710129
>Actually since FW supposedly did BaC
Not heard that before. Sauce?

>>43710129
FW cannot into plastic!

>>43710087
First things first NEVER waste time with multi-meltas everybody takes Armored Ceramite. Second, as I said, the combination doesn't make sense when facing standard infantry or heavy tanks. BUT, the combination only makes sense for things like Bikers, Landspeeders and Rhinos.

Stealth is brilliant and again not normally worth the things a regular Storm Eagle has over them, but for a Ravenguard army it completely makes sense. Like I said earlier you wanna deep strike or Infiltrate as many things in your army as possible. It's the best way to Infiltrate Terminators unless there's something I am missing.

>But it's a very, very expensive platform to do that.
You bring 5 Terminators in a Land Raider. A modified Land Raider costs about the same.

>>43710170

One of the more credible rumor sources let out that some part of the new Specialist Games Studio was responsible for BaC and FW is part of the aforementioned studio. In addition, the rulebook for BaC looks very similar to FW's HH books.

Maybe it'd be a jump to say FW was entirely involved, but I think they had some hand in it.

Black scheme IF list.

If I want to do a black scheme and still be fluffy I figured i needed to make a veterans list.

2475/2500 Rite of War: Pride of the Legion

HQ:

- Legion Praetor, Cataphractii Terminators armour, Thunder hammer, Storm Shield, teleporta - 175 points

- 2x Legion centurion, Librarian ML2, Cataphractii termy armour, storm shield, teleporta - 170 points

Elites:

- 2 x 2 Rapier Quad Mortars - 240 points
Troops:

- 5x 10 Legion Veterans, rhino transport w/ extra armour - 1225 points

- 10 Legion Terminators, Cataphractii Armour, Power fists (7), Chainfists (3) storm shields, teleporta - 505 points

lots of fisting to be done by my big black marines

>>43709688
>Darkwing
The Darkwing gunship cannot Infiltrate, only Outflank. The normal Storm Eagle can Deep Strike as well. The Darkwing's weapons are no more effective against Scatterbikes and the other units you list, or any unit for that matter, than the Storm Eagles, but with less options for tailoring. Unless Blind is specifically what you had in mind, it makes no difference.

>Colours
Yes, I gathered you love WB and TS. I personally think the TS scheme is great and WB are pretty good, but nothing in my analysis was any kind of endorsement. I just don't want you reading into things.

The Loyalist schemes present a mild imbalance in the overall spectra, but all of them individually look good.

>you got the Loyalist guys who are all either black n white or close to it
Three black and whiters is a problem but outside that there's one grey and one white, who both have plenty of colour (admittedly, similar to each other and Imperial Fists). The last four are all one or more of bold, bright and distinctive. It's not too much better than the Traitors, who have two dark blues, two purples, two reds etc.


>Alpha Legion, Sons of Horus, and World Eaters ... do striking contrasts there being a darker color and a lighter one.
Only World Eaters do that. Sons and Alphas are universally dark, especially Sons.

>they have the brass there with the Dark Red to do the more striking colors thing of Chaos legions
I have no idea what you mean by this. Dark red and brass is not especially striking, it's nice but it's pretty similar to the modern World Eaters for example. "the more striking thing of Chaos Legions" totally loses me.

>the brighter orange in there which brings a warmer contrast
It's only in the symbols. I reckon you're just fond of warm, dark colours.

>their outlining and symbols aren't just brass, but a combination of yellowish-brown brass and silverish grey.
Maybe silver but you've lost me on the "yellowish-brown brass". You'll have to post a picture to show me.

>>43710087
Oh snap, when I was making the analysis of the Darkwing vs. Storm Eagle here >>43709168 I didn't even notice the loss in Strength and AP. That's a much bigger deal than gaining Blind. Unless the Darkwing can shoot both which I doubt, it's a real mark down.

It's really not far from being a useable vehicle, but it's just not quite there.

>>43710256
>NEVER waste time with multi-meltas everybody takes Armored Ceramite

Speaking of this, what SHOULD one take? I play militia and I got autocannons up the wazoo, but vs. AV14 I feel like I'm really lacking. Outside of spamming lascannons, I don't know what else to do.

>>43710360
Vanquishers work well, but suffer a bit if you can't buff their BS.

Solar Auxilia get a strategos to buff em up to 4, dunno if militia have a simillar unit.

>>43708323
Jesus, do you read the rules or do you just have your opponent tell you what you can or can't do and what number you need to roll on your dice?

>>43710397
No, Militia doesn't get BS boost.

Forgot about Vanquishers. I just remembered that Armoured Ceramite negated the extra D6, but forgot that it was just on Melta weapons. I do have 3 Vanquishers in my 40k Guard I can use with my Militia, but is it enough?

>>43707736
We have no idea, because FW have yet to release a book featuring Space Wolves. If I had to guess, i'd say they were heavy on Mk II and III, but we won't know until we see the images in the SW/TS HH book.

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>>43710293
>Darkwing

It has Stealth and Outflank, along with Blind. Those three are enough to cover its points cost.

>nothing in my analysis was any kind of endorsement
I know. I was just being a semi-troll and making my Legions look as good as possibly :)

>Alphas are universally dark
The brighter green stands out against the darker drabbish blue though.

>It's only in the symbols. I reckon you're just fond of warm, dark colours.
That also bring some level of contrast yes. It's hard to pull that off especially considering how one sided most of their colors are.

>Maybe silver but you've lost me on the "yellowish-brown brass". You'll have to post a picture to show me.
Look at pic.


>>43710360
Not familiar with what the Militia has, but you wanna get Heavy Conversion Beamers, Laser Destroyers, and Grav Cannons. Those are where it's at. Melta bombs are super useful, too. Armored Ceramite can ignore melta rule, but can't ignore the Melta-bombs' armorbane.

>>43710333

> The word 'unsaved' is removed from the Concussive rule
> Darkwing is immediately a good choice
> Gains the same nose-weapon swaps as a Storm Eagle
> Darkwing is immediately high-tier

Oh and I myself have a question guys: what's the best way to equip vanilla terminators for ranged combat? I am trying to implement a squad in my Word Bearers army so they are in that way the Anointed and sorta like 30k's Obliterators.

>>43702858
They should give bikeknights lances like what the Sydonian Dragoons have.

>>43710540
>It has Stealth and Outflank, along with Blind. Those three are enough to cover its points cost.
I and now others have given plenty of reasons why that isn't the case. We're asking for your reasoning.

>I was just being a semi-troll
Never post-hoc. Stick to just being normal.

>The brighter green stands out against the darker drabbish blue though.
The green isn't bright, they're all dark. None of the colours are drab either, they're still quite bold.

>That also bring some level of contrast yes.
Contrast with what? Warm with warm?

>Look at pic.
Well for one thing that's Chaos marines post Heresy. But for another, are you referring to the tin metal trim? That's basically a duller brass colour. It does look good but it doesn't quite "contrast" with red, it's similar.

>>43710559
It's shocking, isn't it. Frankly I think they should make Concussive behave differently for ranged and melee weapons, because there's a whole niche Initiative-reducing weapons waiting to exist to operate in tandem with Initiative test-forcers and melee units wanting to slow a target before a charge. But it's just worthless now.

>>43710568
It depends on exactly what you are trying to kill. Plasma weapons don't go wrong usually.

>>43710276
>5x 10 Legion Veterans

This guys have Sniper, right?

Does every terminator have a storm shield? If so drop some, you dont need everyone with it when the unit has a 4++. Personally I think that deep striking such large is a bit much, you could get easily fucked up if you fail a bunch of reserve rolls or roll a 1 on mishap, deep striking terminators work best as MSU to support other elements, I'd probably either get a large fortification to hold them then move them around OR drop the librarians and get a Spartan.

>>43710540
Militia has mostly missile launchers, lascannons, (multi-)meltas and melta-bombs. And the Vanquishers. Only grav is a graviton gun the techpriests in the enginseer auxilia squad can take (max. 3 priests per squad). Laser Destroyers are Heavy and that's where all my Russes go. If they were Elite, there would be no problems. No beamers.

Guess I could toss melta-bombs to my two grenadier squad sergeants.

>>43710464
I'm not too sure.

Do co-axial weapons give rerolls for the main weapon to hit in 30k? They do in some rules but sometimes it seems unclear. The only time I've seen it explicitely mentioned in a FW book by the unit entry is 40k Siege of Vraks 2nd edition, but I've seen the rules written somewhere in 30k books too.

>>43710730
Only the vanquishers in the armoured company list get to take co-axial stubbers for re-rolls. Militia gets just bog standard pintle stubbers.

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BaC Chaplain converted into a plasma moritat for my EC

This box is wonderful

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>>43710730
Don't know about Militia but SA don't have access to co-axial anything. Which is a shame because the Ryza pattern turret suits the SA style nicely.

>>43710360
It's pretty much just Meltabombs if you're not up for a Lascannon Block or Vanquishers. Admittedly those are things for which anyone ought to be up. You're playing for interest's sake with Militia and Cults most of the time, to do as much damage as possible agains the odds than to win. I enjoy that about them.

>>43710803
Count-as pintle stubber?

>>43710779
That looks turbo-badass. What Legion?

If only dual-plasma wasn't overnerfed.

My 2k Word Bearers;

Word Bearers Primary Detachment

Zardu Layak 175

Erebus 195 (Can be replaced by a generic chaplain with various equipment)


10 Gal Vorbak 405
Dark Martyr, Artificer Armor, Power Fist, 2x Power Mauls

15 Legion Tactical Squad 210
Nuncio Vox

15 Legion Tactical Squad 210
Nuncio Vox

Daemons of Chaos Allied Detachment

Be'Lakor 350

20 Bloodletters 225
Full Command

20 Bloodletters 225
Full Command

Zardu goes cursed earth in one of the bloodletter units whilst the Gal DS in. Lots of choppy choppy death.

increasing to 2.5k Erebus gets downgraded to a standard chaplain, Lorgar enters the fray and makes a unit with Zard+ his bladeslaves and the chaplain in a drop pod.

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>>43710817
Not an option, unfortunately. Again, this is SA, not sure about Militia.

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>>43710656
>I and now others have given plenty of reasons why that isn't the case. We're asking for your reasoning.
What I said >>43710256 best way (only) way to Infiltrate in Terminators. Makes perfect sense why such a thing is there for the Ravenguard.

>Never post-hoc. Stick to just being normal.
I was just joking around. It's whatever.

>The green isn't bright, they're all dark. None of the colours are drab either, they're still quite bold.
See pic. Alpha Legion green is the lighter one. The blue the alpha legion have is some kind of navy blue like what blue would look like if there was a coat of dust on it. I call it drab but I ain't sure what it's actually called. Point being it contrasts with the green. The Green stands out.

>Contrast with what? Warm with warm?
>It does look good but it doesn't quite "contrast" with red, it's
That second quote is you summarizing exactly what I have been trying to say. It's not all the way one or the other mono or contrasting. It's somehow hit sorta a middle ground bringing what to me are elements I like of both.

>Well for one thing that's Chaos marines post Heresy.
Unlike other Legions Word Bearers switched from mostly silver grey to the red like almost instantly. It's why for example the Betrayal at Calth units are already reddish.

>>43710695
Of the Heavy Weapon choices the plasma blaster does look like my best option.

So whats the role for reaper squads? They seem a bit expensive.

>>43710779
>plasma moritat

I see you like living on the edge, as expected of EC.

If I ever make a Moritat I'll give it bolt pistols or volkites.

>>43710811
Hey, I started Guard late 3e, so I know all about getting reamed for fun. But that doesn't mean I don't want to be prepared for the dude with land raiders and terminator "fun list".

I'd love to make lascannon HW squads, but fucking FW didn't give Militia platoons, so I'm stuck with 6 Troop slots and with an autocannon squad, infantry squads, grenadier squads and a levy squad, I'm all out of slots.

>>43710861
Count as multi-laser? Maybe get some spare Chimera barrels and mount them on the turret over the stubber barrel. You could even attach the support strut on the multi-laser to the Vanquisher barrel.

>>43710709
>This guys have Sniper, right?
Yes'sir

You reckon they'll make their points back?

>Personally I think that deep striking such large is a bit much, you could get easily fucked up if you fail a bunch of reserve rolls or roll a 1 on mishap, deep striking terminators work best as MSU to support other elements, I'd probably either get a large fortification to hold them then move them around OR drop the librarians and get a Spartan.

Was thinking about this as it'd be awesome. Current plan for the libby's was to both roll on Sanctic demonology so there's the potential for deepstriking cleansing flame, 2++ S10 termies.

Spartan sounds like the more logical idea though.

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>>43710863
I've already told you, perhaps twice, that the Darkwing cannot Infiltrate. It has Outflank. That means it can arrive from the side of the board. If that's what you have in mind when you say Infiltrate then fair-enough, but that's not most people's definition of the term.

>I was just joking around. It's whatever.
It was a bit out there, but whatever.

>See pic. Alpha Legion green is the lighter one.
Post-Heresy, yes. Preheresy Alpha Legion colours are a mottle mixture like this. The symbols are all drawn in silver. This is an excellent design, distinctive and with a smooth hue contrast, but light vs dark isn't a part of it.

>That second quote is you summarizing exactly what I have been trying to say.
What you've been saying is contrast. I think the term you looked for is compliment, or balance. We're on the same page.

>It's why for example the Betrayal at Calth units are already reddish.
I think that's mostly just Games Workshop central's choice for Calth. You're right that the transition is much earlier than the other legions, but it looks about half-way to me. Pic to come.

Yeah plasma's just sensible, it's not bad or over-specialised against anything like the other options. Plasma combis too.

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>>43710863
Here's the second pic, a cool Termie dude from Book 5. The others from that book match it's scheme.

>>43710910
V. true. It's a point I've brought up a few times this week with regard to my own Militia and Cults list, which I base off old Beastmen models. I inititally made the list to 1750pts, then realised that I had no way to deal with aircraft at all. A low-powered list is one thing but having no option at all against a potential threat is another, that's not fun. Coveniantly a maxed-out Thundernbolt is 250pts so I use a dragon model as a stand-in. Fun times.

I like finding a way to make-do with a borked list. It's a challenge. Plus there's so much variety everywhere else in the list and in general. If you want lots of models you have to make do with fantabulously huge Militia Levies, and work around a Bubblestar. Makes a break from the Legiones.

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>>43710831
Give the Dark Martyr a Tainted Weapon.

>>43711048
Pic. Also called stealth cuz I had to log onto my personal laptop from work without anyone else finding out!

>>43711108
True shit. Tryna build Termies like that for the next stage of my Word Bearers army.

When do 1ksons again?

Is it next year at the earliest but possibly 2017?

>>43711378
I don't get what you're trying to show me in that pic. Darkwings have Stealth and Outflank. They have 6+ cover save in the open and improve any other cover saves by 1, and they can arrive from the side of the board. That's it. No Infiltrate.

Paint gud and your Terminatory dreams will come true. Just remember to keep the power weapons diverse, melee is an all-comers field and you don't want to be up against 2+ saves without an axe.

>>43711414

Late 2016 at the earliest feels right to me.

Okay, so here's my attempt at having Terminators in my Word Bearers army. While I don't really feel to comfy having them go with out vehicles, this is meant to be more fluffy than for winning, and I have lacked Anointed in my Word Bearers.

2500 points

Rite of War: Pride Of The Legion

---HQ---

Erebus - 195 points

Legion Centurion - 150 points
-Diabolist
-Jump Pack
-Refractor Field
-Artificer Armor
-Twin Lightning Claws


---Troops---

(5) Legion Terminator Squad aka Anointed - 285 points
-Cataphractii Armor
-5 Combi-Plasmas
-5 Thunder Hammers
-Dark Channelling

(5) Legion Terminator Squad aka Anointed - 285 points
-Cataphractii Armor
-5 Combi-Plasmas
-5 Thunder Hammers
-Dark Channelling


---Fast Attack---

(10) The Ashen Circle - 375 points
-9 Power Axes
-Artificer Armor for Iconoclast
-3 Phosphex Bombs for Iconoclast

---Elites---

(10) Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren - 390 points
-2 Power Weapons
-Tainted Weapon for Dark Martyr
-Artificer Armor for Dark Martyr

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought - 305 points


---Dedicated Transports---

Mhara Gal Tainted Dreadnought: Dreadnought Drop Pod - 65 points


---Lord of War---

Lorgar - 450 points
-Transfigured


>>43711443
Stealth, Outflank, Dedicated Transport for Terminators and Vets. If you're taking Terminators or Veterans it's better than a Land Raider.

>>43711870
Points already dealt, and unconnected to the point you've made repeatedly about Infiltration.

>>43711991
I was wrong about the Infiltration. I get it and Stealth confused all the time. But anyway point being that it's still the best Terminator Dedicated transport unless you have a fully beefed up Spartan with Armored Ceramite and Flare Shield which costs a lot more. Ravenguard Terminators get Furious Charge, right? Furious Charge the enemy from the side using the Darkwing! Pretty sure Ravenguard have Terminators that actually do that, too. This is also arguably the best use of Terminators among Ravenguard since they aren't Imperial Fists and Salamanders Terminators who can head-on charge.

>>43712258
Finally, took you long enough to realise that.

>it's still the best Terminator Dedicated transport
Not really. To repeat myself just one last time, the benefits from Stealth do not justify the 25 more points, the more limited options (and resulting confused loadout) and the reduced transport capacity. Storm Eagles are just better. Outflanking is silly when you're a Flying Assault vehicle.

>>43712372
What's the best option then to furious charge your enemies with Ravenguard Assault Terminators who can't equip Stormshields making head-on charges not the best idea?

Any idea when Space Wolves will drop? Im guessing they will be in whatever book the Thousand Sons are in.

>>43712735
Yup, they will also be in Retaliation: Prospero. Along with hopefully Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence, too.

>>43712688
Probably a Storm Eagle for both cost and speed.

Thousand Sons or Imperial Fists?

I like them both with equal love.

I feel like the main reason I like Thousand Son's is magnus though, but I'm also not too impressed with Imperial Fists special units atm.

Help me choose /tg/

>>43712977
Thousand Sons, if only for the sake of variety before we get sweet roolz.

>>43712977
>I'm also not too impressed with Imperial Fists special units atm.

IF are OG vanilla marines and their rules kind of represent that as they make everything vanilla so good, BS5 Fury of the legion or Sniper veterans can be nasty.

>>43712977
>one has legion rules, several variant schemes, special units and likes loads of basic dudes
>the other is coming soon™ and has basically no modern information about their organization
hard choice senpai-kun

>>43708126
It's kinda fucked that the resin magos is cheaper than the plastic one.

>>43712923
Even for outflank charging?

>>43712977
Thousand Sons won't be out till next year. Also IF is fun in that you have your Phalax and Breachers form a giant moving fortress with Veteran Tac squads shooting IF boosted bolsters and heavy support shooting tank hunter las cannons. Check out Disciplined Fire rule it's amazing.

>>43708602
Oh yes. very much so. Attach Chaplain with Void Shield harness for immunity to small arms.

>>43708633
That 3+ has saved me a few times. As blind has too, suck it admech. I also fill it with Mor Deythan, deepstrike in Mauns bubble, and then erase a unit so the added survivability is nice.

>>43709168
Dark Furies can't go inside anyway. I know the fluff section says they deploy them, I even asked FW about it and they said it's a no-go. This was last year so maybe if you ask again they'll be willing.

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>>43713017
I know but I feel like they should have legion terminators and some kind of special boltgun veterens. 2 wound veterens w/ master crafted boltguns would be sweet, like vanilla marine +1.

>>43713003
>>43713050
Thing is, when 1ksons actually come out I'd be happy that I have an IF army because they'll ally so nicely with sisters of silence and Custodes.

But I feel that I'll be betraying my primarch waifuu

Also building an army atm would be pretty soulless, can't even take a psyker as a hq.

>>43713325
>playing with primarchs
ew

>>43713294
>Also IF is fun in that you have your Phalax and Breachers
I don't really like those units though which is what makes it a hard choice.

I like my marines with bolters and shields reserved for the termies.

I like it when a tanky as fuck unit with a shield is protecting shooty units but when my entire army has shields and I actually want them to get charged that gimmick kind of dissipates.

>>43713294
Like I said, it's pointless with a Flying Assault vehicle. You can turn probably one assault with that combination, while at best turn two or three with Outflank.

>>43713305
The Stealth really is nice, but it's just not worth 25 points and a borked weapon set. Blind might just be worth it against Ad Mech, but can you guarantee Ad Mech opposition?

I'll be damned if Dark Furies can't pop inside. What a silly decision. Could've sworn there was a note saying Storm Eagles could take Jump Infantry (and ergo Duckships from there)

>>43713294
Phalanx are pretty bad anon. It's a shame because they're a nice concept but another case of horrible initial pricing.

>>43713413
Fuck the IF Rite Of War. You only want Shields on Termies just use the army for Disciplined Fire special rule. Massive shooty guys

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Anybody have any stories where they just utterly tacticool geniused their way to victory?

Where you felt really proud of a badass win you got because you were smart?

>>43713593
Just like the Darkwing they are built for a very specific purpose for a specific combo with specific units and formations. Very cool if used right. Underwhelming otherwise

>>43713413
Oh and IFs are the only ones that can have Storm Shields on Termies (special wargear Vigil Pattern Storm Shields) and have them be able to deep Strike (Alexis Polux's special move.)

>>43714103
Nah, this isn't even as close to okay as the Duck. Warders are a raw deal even at 20-strong. You're paying over 4 points a head for a situational +1 Initiative when charged and 5 or more models strong. Most things in the game don't pay more than 3pts for +1 Initiative, flat.

Breacher charges, plasma guns, en-masse power axes and vexilla are nice but not enough on top of it. The unit's central twist is bare.

>>43714279
Salamanders can take them for way cheaper and IF termies can deepstrike without a special character anon...

Iron Hands can also get a 3++ very easily without taking up a weapon slot.

>>43714618
*10-strong. Phalanx Warders are actually better value in small units for some reason, the extra dudes are crazy-expensive.

>>43713525
>>43713567
Outflank's extra turns makes it worth it for Ravenguard. You guys are also underrating the shit out of the Eclipse Blind. They are S4 AP5 that's with large blast, Blind, AND Concussive.


>>43714618
Lets compare them to a Legion Breacher Squad since both have similar equipment. A 20 man Legion Breacher Squad costs 325 points. A 20 man Phalanx Warder Squad costs 405 points. From a points per man perspective, 1 Phalanx Warder is 5 points more than a Breacher Squad. A Phalanx Warder obviously has the shield wall ability (which btw is not situational at all if it is situational then you have no idea how to play The Stone Gauntlet.) Phalanx Warder squads have more options for gear, too. They can give every single person on the squad a power axe, and can have more than just the sargent be equipped with Thunder Hammers/Solarite Gauntlets. Not to mention that Phalanx Warders already come with a Veteran Sargent. Outside particular exception rules the Breachers also only have the Land Raider Phobos as their Dedicated Transport while the Warders have a choice between the Phobos, the Proteus, and a Spartan. And of course more than one breacher charges, too. Combine those with The Stone Gauntlet's Resolve of Stone and Shield Charge effects while the Disciplined Fire gives even the bolt pistols of the Warders and Breachers a boost and you got yourself a badass moving fortress that can strike back hard as fuck, too.

>>43714632
Alexis Polux is free deep strike even if you take The Stone Gauntlet Rite of War which forbids deep striking. That and the Vigil Pattern Storm Shields are only 10 points if you have Cataphractii armor (which you should as the armor+SS+TH deep strike combo's too good).

>>43715407
Ran out of space so gonna finish here:

To everyone I replied to (sorry for late reply just got back from gym): you guys are looking at all these exclusive units for a general use perspective. They aren't meant for that, and will feel weak if you look at them that way. Here's FW building all these unique kind of units to try all sorts of crazy new formations and tactics but you guys just wanna look at them as generic all purpose units. They aren't meant to be that. If you use a pressure cooker to fry food instead of a frying pan no shit it's not gonna work.

>>43709912
You just hug that wall, Dorn.

>>43709912
No need. Best vanilla terminators. Though there's that one lord of war squad thingy I am not sure if it's 30k exactly but I remember seeing it on some book.

>>43714632
Oh and the IF Storm Shields are much better.

>>43713305
what type of list do you run with your RG?

>>43713305
Oh hey, look. A person who actually plays Ravenguard saying the Darkwing doesn't suck. What a surprise.

>>43715407
Phalanx Warders seem to be made for Zone Mortalis games, they are I5 for the purpose of Overwatch which means they only fire snapshot overwatch on a 6 rather than on a 5 or 6 like the rest of the marines.

>>43708012
pretty close to nothing.

Make a list, then get models.

>>43710887
>Not giving your Moritat the Drakaina
laughingalpharius.gif

>>43715845
Also T5 Resolve of Stone along with that I5. Shield Charge gives Warder/Breachers Hammer of Wrath, should it's dumb to charge with Breachers do it with Storm Shield Terminators and occasionally Phalanx Warders.

If you're curious what army builds look like, I first ran >>43708501 today and then realized my army's lacking Anti Air and that's where I was the most vulnerable so I eventually went with this:

+++++2500 points:

Rite Of War: The Stone Gauntlet

---HQ---

Alexis Polux - 165 points


---Troops---

(10) Legion Breacher Squad - 240 points
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Melta-bombs for Sargent

(10) Legion Breacher Squad - 240 points
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Melta-bombs for Sargent

(20) Phalanx Warder Squad - 505 points
-4 Solarite Gauntlets
-Solarite Gauntlet for Veteran Sargent
-Melta-bombs for Sargent


---Elites---

(10) Legion Terminator Squad - 535 points
-Cataphractii Terminator Armor
-Solarite Gauntlets for everyone
-Vigil Pattern Storm Shields for everyone
-Grenade Harness for Terminator Sargent

(10) Legion Veteran Tactical Squad - 250 points
-2 Heavy Bolters and Suspendor Webs
-Artificer Armor for Sargent
-Veteran Tactics: Sniper

---Heavy Support---

(6) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 305 points
-6 Lascannons
-Tank Hunter (Imperial Fists Special Rule)
-Augury Scanner for Sargent
-Hardened Armor for everyone

(6) Legion Heavy Support Squad - 260 points
-6 Missile Launchers
-Tank Hunter (Imperial Fists Special Rule)
-Flak Missiles
-Hardened Armor for everyone

Warder/Breachers = Moving fortresses that also shoot and are awful to charge into.

Veteran Tac Squads/Heavy Support Squads = The main firepower of the squad boosted way up thanks to Disciplined Fire. Flak Missiles for flying stuff which is the first weakness of this army.

Terminators = Free deepstrike (Polux) and take care of artillery/psykers/etc. anyone/anything that can do burst AOE damage to the formation.

How bad of an idea is it to leave a Damocles Command Vehicle as the only unit on the table during turn 1? Or how could I protect it besides surrounding it with whirlwinds.

>>43716492
Depends: does it have the extra armor, armored ceramite, and flare shield combo trifecta a lot of heavy vehicles can take? Does it have a havoc launcher to use to protect itself?

>>43716647
It's in book 5 under the ultra marines it's a rhino and can take extra armor but that's it. It has a 24 inch deep strike bubble for friendly units to land in without scatter and it allows a player to add or subtract 1 for all reserve rolls. Finally you can stick six dudes in it but it has no fire points.

>>43717021
I see, only used the Word Bearers section in that book. Cool...now pray to God, the Emperor, Khaine, every major and minor Chaos God, and every other God I haven't mentioned that you aren't facing the Alpha Legion.

>>43717215
Or anyone with guns. At all.

>>43702659
I sort of thought that too, but consider:

1. They're solo operatives, specialists that are only barely integrated into their legion's overall structure (in most legions). They would prize mobility and (comparatively) low-maintenance equipment, given the choice, since they frequently had to operate in isolation. Same reason the Seekers and Recons are MKIV only (except when they're MKVI).
2. Maximus was very new; not so new that it was rare exactly, but new enough that many marines wearing it would probably have field-tested the prototypes and so were either the first to receive the production-runs or, even, are still equipped with the near-final prototypes that they trialed. Probably the ones that would have been pressed into field-testing stuff are the ones that are either disliked, or specialized.

>>43708276
The logic was "Take multiple anti-armor units to make up for the primaris lightnings light armor equipment." It is not what I would normally run...

I'd rather field the following because I do not need Horus at 4000 points. Just bodies and anti-tank.

Damocles
Master of the Signal
Centurion - Delegatus - Cataphractii Armor - Combi-Bolter - Chain Fist
+ Legion Terminator Command Squad - (x3) - x3 Chain Fist + Dreadclaw
Reaver Attack Squad (10) - x3 Power Weapon - x2 Flamer - 1 Handflamer - Meltabombs + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Reaver Attack Squad (10) - x3 Power Weapon - x2 Flamer - 1 Handflamer - Meltabombs + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Reaver Attack Squad (10) - x4 Power Fist + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Reaver Attack Squad (15) - x5 Power Weapon - x3 Melta
Justaerin Terminator Squad (3) x3 Chain Fists + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Justaerin Terminator Squad (3) x3 Chain Fists + Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Droppod
Terminator Squad - (10) x5 Thunder hammers - x5 Power Axe - x2 Plasma Blaster
Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter - x2 Kraken Penatrator Missile Pairs - Ground Tracker Augeries
Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter - x2 Kraken Penatrator Missile Pairs - Ground Tracker Augeries
Primaris Lightning Strike Fighter - x2 Kraken Penatrator Missile Pairs - Ground Tracker Augeries
Kharybdis Assault Claw
Total: 4000

>>43717215
>>43717648
Do you guys even play with LoS blocking terrain, or use Reserves at all?

>>43718218
Wait if I embark a unit into a Damocles can I reroll a 1 on it's reserve roll?

>>43718218
Do you think that you could block LoS from every single model on the table in a game where scout, infiltrate, and 12" moves are common? Also, I'd like to see terrain stop you from getting demolished by barrage weapons. Single models are a bad idea. There's nothing wrong with low board presence, but having a single model, a rhino no less, is absolute suicide.

>>43718682
I mean if I'm playing the sons of Horus thanks to the edge of the spear since it's now that units transport.

Any Alpha Legion guys use Exodus?

How's he perform? He tickles my funbone too much for me to try and come up with something objective based off stats.

These thread revolve too much around lists and Calth talk.

Lets talk more about ways in which we can show love for our Primarchs. I initially just wanted to get a tattoo but I don't think its something that he would approve of. Dorn doesn't seem into that kind of stuff.

I think instead I might honour him by living a more noble life. It'll be hard I realise but I guess thats a small cross for me to bare to be a better person for Dorn. It also serves the dual purpose of actually letting me contribute to and be a more positive influence on society and make my mom proud. I don't think she is very proud of me at the moment but that can change.

I also plan to reinforce my house and make it more immune to sieges. I guess I'll start with my room first and work my way up from there.

>>43720256
>I also plan to reinforce my house and make it more immune to sieges.
I don't even play IW, but I'm gonna wreck it to honor Perty.

>>43720348

Make sure you wreck one out of every 10 Iron Warrior models you own in his honour as well.

>>43720358
I'm visualizing the flash of satisfaction followed by the deep horror and remorse of taking a ball peen hammer to a painted Iron Warrior Model. Fuck. At least it's better than honoring Curze.

How does the Deredeo's independent tracking rule work when it's using the interceptor rule? Can it fire at two different units during the enemies movement phase?

Also can it only snap shot against certain targets due to skyfire or can it choose to just adopt interceptor and not skyfire when picking targets?

Are you actually supposed to be able to fit pouches, grenades, a combat blade and a holstered bolt pistol onto each BaC marine or will it look stupidly clustered?

>>43720256
Inwit has a scrimshaw tradition among the nomad clans and a fair portion of the Fists are recruited from hive-gangs on Terra and Necromunda. Combine that with the Fists' philosophy on pain-
> "Pain is...a lesson that the universe teaches us. Pain is the preserver from injury. Pain perpetuates our lives. It is the healing, purifying scalpel of our souls. Pain is the wine of communion with heroes. It is the quicksilver panacea for weakness - the quintessence of a dedicated existence. Pain is the philosophic vitriol which transmutes mere moral into immortal. It is the Sublime, the golden astral fire!"
It wouldn't surprise me if at least some Fists have ink of some kind or another.

>>43720690
You only get 18 bolt pistols which I found to be a little upsetting. But I know you can at least put a combat blade, pistol and grenades and it looks quite good.

Do you guys put legion upgrades on all of your marines?

I was probably just going to do shoulderpads on sergeants and just do transfers for everyone else

I want to get into 30k, are the two red books from FW all i need to start playing rules wise?

>>43720741
Depends on what you want to play

The two big red books are only marines. Also they dont have the rules for Ultramarines or anything newer. Supposedly an update is coming for it

>>43720733
Every single marine has an Iron Warrior shoulder pad in my army. The head and torso bits i've parceled out randomly, not necessarily just to the sarges.

>>43714035
It's in 40k, not 30k but sure

>Fists vs Aspectdar
>turn 5, holding my position badly. Striking scorpions hold an objective, reapers hold another one, Jetseer going with 3 scatbikes (from a 6-man squad) behind a wall
>be losing 4-11 or something like that
>need to control every single objective, then 3 objectives, then kill his warlord (total possible d3+3 + d3 + d3 + 1 points)
>Tank shock the scorpions with a razorback and capture an objective by sitting on top of it
>Tank shock the jetseer out of cover with a land raider
>Proceed to blast at the invisible jetseer squad with the rest of my army
>Jetseer miraculously dies
>Assault the reapers with a contemptor and 5 scouts
>End turn controlling everything
>Score 3d3+4 points and end the game 12-11 since we rolled a 2 on continuing the game

>>43720733
Random head and torso upgrades (the more veteran the unit, the more upgrades per squad since most have honor markings), and shoulderpads for everyone

>>43711108
>If you want lots of models you have to make do with fantabulously huge Militia Levies

Which is shit. Auxilia gets to take 3 units per Troop slot and their basic dudes are twice as expensive as Militia infantry squads.

Is it true Auxilia was the pet project of one developer, because that's what it feels like. Out of nowhere this group just becomes the face of the Imperial Army with their superior skills that everyone wants to be a part of and who are second only to Marines, etc.

>>43721096
It is the pet project of one developer, he was doing the CAD for himself, for the most skilled parts of the Army, then the studio liked his designs and produced them. It's not "Mary Sue" tier, it's just that the IA has lots of diversity, militia being the Argentinians of the army, then the average troops, then the elite SA

Hi, newfag here

So I hear these Heresy armies are like a fixed Space Marine codex, right? Can I use plastic Marines like the AOBR ones to make an army rather than pay Forgeworld prices?

Also you keep talking about Legions, are they like Chapters? I have a Crimson Fist army, what are their Legion rules?

Also why are people making loyalist Marine armies with Chaos chapters? Can I make a Red Corsairs Legion?

Never played HH before. Trying to make a Death Guard list that is fluffy and good but not sure what works and does not in 30k since I have only played 40k. could cut the squad size a little on both to make a lascannon squad and flak missle squad. Better? Other options are leave as is or cut other stuff to fit in lascannons. I donno.

HQ
Deathshroud Terminator squad x7 rad grenades, melta bombs 335

Troops
Legion heavy support squad x10 augury scanner, rad grenades, missile launchers w/flak 350
Legion heavy support squad x10 augury scanner, rad grenades, missile launchers 300
Legion tactical squad x10 melta bombs, rad grenades rhino w/havoc launcher 235
Legion tactical squad x10 melta bombs, rad grenades rhino w/havoc launcher 235

Heavy support
legion spartan assault tank armoured ceramite, flare shield 340
legion vindicator dozer blade, extra armor, twin linked bolter 140
legion vindicator dozer blade, extra armor, twin linked bolter 140

LoW
Mortarion 425

>>43721606
2.5k list with Death Gaurd tactics and The reaping rites of war.

is it possible to build a legion army without using a specific legions rules?

>>43721578
>Argentinians
hello brit-friend!

>>43721618
Why would you want to?

>>43721618
Yes it's called homebrew 40k, which is not 30k.

>>43697860
Help, I am buttmad they kicked the MKII Bundles.

What should I do know?

I saved for treating myself for christmas....

>>43721672
Yeah it was kind of annoying that they got rid of so many of the armor bundles in the site transfer. A spartan would make you feel better anon....

>>43721618
I honestly don't know how that word ended there... it's appropriate either way

>>43721578
>then the average troops

Who are? Because for "Argentinians", those guys get all sorts of nice shit with the right Provenances. So what slot do the "average troops" fill in this equation? Militia already stretches from shit mooks to almost SA tier.

>then the elite SA

Who were so widespread they basically became the face of the Army and made up a good third of it.

>>43721694
I was thinking of an angels wrath Word Bearers force.

I also heard that the book coming out on february will allows more loyalist shenanigans so I will keep the Warp stuff smaller.

>Even got the pre heresy centurion because he looks so awesome.

What legion would work best with the armoured spearhead rite of war?

>>43721893
Iron Hands probably, I prefer their rite fo war though for that.

They even have a tank commander character.

>>43721618
Of course your can. Just use one of the genetic rites of war with your own (hopefully not atrocious) color scheme. Lore-wise, your army is one of hundreds of different specialist companies that operate within a given legion, and have a specialist color scheme and honors to match.

>>43721919
Fucking autocorrect.
>you can
>generic rites

>>43710963
Unsure if you are actually allowed to take santic.
>>43714632
IH 3++ is character only.
>>43721600
Horus heresy plays in 30k.
Legions are the proto-chapters. 9 were loyal, 9 became traitor. After the civil war between these 18 legions, each loyal legion split into smaller chapter, in your case Polux created the Crimson Fists from the Marines proficient in Void battle.
They are no specific rules for these marines but upcoming Rites of war (formation) should enable that.
Red Corsairs weren't yet formed but in the upcoming book warband like forces would be possible.

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>>43722074
>Horus heresy plays in 30k.
>Legions are the proto-chapters. 9 were loyal, 9 became traitor. After the civil war between these 18 legions, each loyal legion split into smaller chapter, in your case Polux created the Crimson Fists from the Marines proficient in Void battle.
>They are no specific rules for these marines but upcoming Rites of war (formation) should enable that.
>Red Corsairs weren't yet formed but in the upcoming book warband like forces would be possible.

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Planning a levy blob militia/cults army here. Any reason to take a malcador over, say, two leman russes?

>>43720256
>Lets talk more about ways in which we can show love for our Primarchs
>Dorn
make a pain glove and wank with it.

>>43722351
It's a super-heavy. It can split fire across multiple targets.

>>43722370
It's actually not too bad. It leave you with a tingling for days.

>>43722396
plus Malcadors have tons of 2ndary weapons with 48" so they can sit back more

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>find a cool pic of Alpharius on Lexicanum
>Decide to save it as i plan on going alpha legion and modeling him
>go to folder where I saved the pic, ordered by date downloaded.
>Don't see him anywhere
>Finally reach near bottom of folder, see the pic
>Date Saved: 09/08/14
>I never even had a passing interest in Alpha legion then, and certainly never downloaded that pic before.
>mrw Alpharius rused me

I hope this just means that I've been approved to go Alpha Legion

>>43722521
>all the primarchs are lies

>even the emperor is a lie

>its all just a bunch of Alpharius clones with wildly different personalities

Are there any plastic Tigrus pattern Bolt Pistols available in any 40k kits?

>>43715407
>Outflank's extra turns makes it worth it for Ravenguard.
What on earth do you mean by this. Please explain.

>They are S4 AP5 that's with large blast, Blind, AND Concussive.
Compared to S5 AP4 Large Blast and Concussive that's a raw deal. We've already gone over why Concussive doesn't really do much in this situation. Blind is effective against only a few targets, in most cases it doesn't make up for the lack of Strength (and at times AP).

>btw is not situational at all if it is situational then you have no idea how to play The Stone Gauntlet
It's situational because it only activates when charged. That's the meaning of situational, it's only active or relevant in certain situations. And you're paying 5 points for this.

>Phalanx Warder squads have more options for gear, too.
Already covered. The gear is nice but doesn't remove the basic overcosted pricetag, or the weird pricing in general.

>They can give every single person on the squad a power axe
For 10 POINTS EACH. On one-attack models, and at the price of having no boltgun. You're not even getting +1 Attack for two melee weapons. This is the rawest of raw deals. Phalanx Warders with Axes cost as much or more than an Invictarus Suzerain and are the same or worse in every respect. They don't even claim their central gimmick as Axes reduce you to Initiative 1. It's a completely foolish design.

>Not to mention that Phalanx Warders already come with a Veteran Sargent.
. . . Every squad comes with a veteran sergeant.

>The Stone Gauntlet's Resolve of Stone and Shield Charge effects
Which both boost regular Breacher Squads, as well as anything else with a shield. All of these things do the same thing as Phalanx Warders for notably less.

>you guys are looking at all these exclusive units for a general use perspective.
No, we're not and you're making an enormous presumption founded on very little when you make that statement. 1/2

>>43715407
Phalanx Warders and Breachers are identical units except for their cost - anywhere from 3 to 5 more points per head; an additionaly point of Initiative when charged and 5 or more models strong, a very small and situational bonus that is irrelevant when combined with Unwieldy weapons; and options, which are fair priced within themselves but don't make up for the overall unit's bloated cost, and either do not synergise with or outright *negate* the unit's special bonus for which they pay so many points.

They're also a Fast Attack choice unless taken with the Imperial Fists' special Rite of War, and then if so compete with a slot with the same unit but without the mildly and rarely advantageous, at-times negated and at all times overpriced bonus, which happens to also recieve all the special other upgrades inherent in the Rite. Nevermind that one of those bonuses - the Hammer of Wrath upgrade - cannot be used at the same time as the Warder's Initiative upgrade, another case of the bonus being negated without compensation.

There really is a reason why people say the unit is bad. A situational point of initiative that is easily negated does not expand the role of a Breacher squad in any meaningful way, especially when it's so easily negated and so expensive. Neither do upgrades that still cost points on top of the total; as nice as Breachers with Plasma Guns and Demo Charges are, they're just not worth 50 to 100 more points a squad BEFORE purchasing the 10-20pt upgrades. It's just a raw deal, and one that conveniantly has a much better alternative, basic Breachers.

>>43720256
Horus Heresy is about miniatures and a board game with which they are played. There's more to it than that but saying there's "too much" of it is like saying there's too much food in my dinner.

>>43722204
Gave him the benefit of doubt.

>>43721096
You are aware I wasn't talking about Militia Infantry Squads, right? Those are poor value for money, it has nothing to do with Militia Levies. You can see right there in my post it says "Militia Levies". Those are good value in an enormous blob with a bunch of Provenences of War slapped on.

My army uses Feral Warriors and Abhuman Helots. 25points nets the entire unit +1 attack, on models which have pistols and melee weapons already. For half a point per head everyone is putting out 3 attacks. From 50 models, that's absurd. Then these bods are all T4, for a marginal price. The Initiative lossmakes little difference. A Discipline Master with Melta Bombs gives the unit a tool to deal with Dreadnoughts and Monsters and gives them Ld 9 and rerolls, while Discipline Collars gives them the all-important Stubborn. The total cost of this unit? 160pts, as much as 10 Tactical Marines plus a power weapon for a tarpit from hell.

Sure it's unwieldy. Sure it can't hurt T7 targets that aren't Monstrous creatures. Sure it will inevitably lose close combat after three rounds or so. Sure it possesses a specialised role in an army list that is generally a challenging experience. None of these things are bad. The unit is fun, flavourful and good at what it does to boot.

Just don't take basic Infantry squads, they're crap.

>>43720256
Brother!
You could get the IF fist tattoo'd on your ass cause I'm like 90% sure that used to be a part of the IF's "now you're a full muhreen" ceremony in IF fluff from ages past.

>>43721600
You need to lurk WAY more. What you know is pure disinformation.

>>43720256
>Lets talk more about ways in which we can show love for our Primarchs
I guess I can try to scape and lick blood to honor Papa Sang more. Self improvement is something I'm sure he'd approve of, and I need to do that more.

>>43722919
I've been looking for a reference to Johnson's original name for a while now!

A few years back I decided that Lion El'Johnson is a really lame and crappy name, and that he needs something that reflects his inspiration without sounding faggy (lol). I setteld on "Linus Elgensen".

Then I saw a piece of 2nd Ed fluff that called him Lynn Elgonson and I felt very validated, and I'm been looking for more since.

>>43722762
>You are aware I wasn't talking about Militia Infantry Squads, right?

You are aware that I was, right? The whole bit how Auxilia can get 3 100pts. rifle sections in one Troop slot, while militia has to fit one of their 50pts. infantry squads per Troop slot.

Or the whole point how needing to spam Provenance levies is shit, as in it's shit that you need to do it. I just want a bunch of regular dudes with lasguns going pew-pew, not min-maxed barbarian hordes with axes and pistols.

>>43723010
Lionel Johnson is actually not his whole name

It was originally Richard L Johnson

Russ kept calling him Dick Johnson so he changed it

>>43708031
You forgot the Alpha legion on the loyalist side

>>43723128
>You are aware that I was, right?
Yes, which is why I addressed it as irrelevant to my point.

>Militia and Cults are shit because they do things I don't want in an army
Bully for you, play Solar Auxilia. You're entitled to your taste.

>>43723531
XD

>>43723674
>Yes, which is why I addressed it as irrelevant to my point.

But it was my original point you glossed over with "just take loads of cheap fodder levies."

>Militia and Cults are fine because they do things I want in an army

Good for you, anon. Now how about the people who want Army that's not stormtroopers lite or raving levies?

>>43715480
The wall you can't break, my limpdick of iron

>>43723721
Which original point? Are you this >>43710910 anon? It seemed like we were agreeing.

>Good for you, anon. Now how about the people who want Army that's not stormtroopers lite or raving levies?
Militia and Cults. You don't have to make a melee army, grenadiers and HW teams are fine as are all the vehicle choices. The army is supposed to be a cheap and numerous army yet there are plenty of options for elite units with 3+ saves and high Ld values. What are you complaining about?

>>43723817
>What are you complaining about?

Ok...
1) Militia doesn't get platoons, even though Auxilia does and they need them way less (more expensive units).
2) Infantry Squads are shit.
3) Either it's spamming levies or grenadiers with a bunch of Provenance, bog standard Militia built around infantry squads is a shit.

There.

>>43721600
Is this a troll?

>>43724157
yes

>>43722613
>What on earth do you mean?
Extra opportunities to charge the enemy not possible with a regular Storm Eagle and it takes a dedicated transport spot in a FOC which is always helpful

>Blind only affects a few enemies
In an average army there are a lot more enemies that are affected by it than those that aren't.

>Phalanx
Okay...again you aren't running The Stone Gauntlet correctly. Shield Charge does NOT give a true boost to the Breachers cuz you are dumb if you charge with Breachers. Phalanx can actually charge unlike Breachers without penalties. Power Axes are an option because of Shield Charge as it makes the Phalanx more Charge friendly. Phalanx already comes with a veteran no upgrades needed thus why it's base cost is higher than Breacher. Power Axe Warders get shield charge over Invictarii.

Basic Breachers can get one melee weapon only for the Sargent. Warders can have up to four more if needed.

Also gonna mention since I actually play this army, when the enemy likes to deep strike inside my moving fortress Warders are the ones that take care of those guys.

Again, Phalanx advantages over Breacher are:

More gear options
Shield Wall
Ability to successfully charge well
More Breacher charges than Breachers themselves

All these for five points more cost than normal isn't bad at all. They are Breachers which are better than Breachers in every way. With Power Axes and Shield Charge they are second only to Assault Terminators in charging the enemy for being five points less than them.

>Enormous presumption founded on very little
A lot of the implications and the assumptions you've have about the Darkwing and the Phalanx shows that you have seen neither in play. Shield Wall situational? The enemy is forced to attack the warders if they wanna hit the pure ranged firepower. Making that Invictarii comparison. Thinking that the Eclipse doesn't make a difference.

>>43723531
The only reason I’ve heard for them being loyalist is that they were told that they could kill the Chaos gods by letting humanity get wiped out. Accepting that trade would be stupid, so I have a hard time believing that they’d go along with that.

Is there any chance that the Alpha Legion had a small contingent at the Siege of Terra? Not having been there is the only thing keeping me from starting an Alpha Legion Epic army. I have Blood Angels already – not sure they ever met in combat during the Heresy. But AL would be quick to paint (clear blue over silver) so I’d actually have a chance of making progress. The other traitor legions I like the look of (especially Sons of Horus) would bog me down in detail painting.

>>43724774
>Is there any chance that the Alpha Legion had a small contingent at the Siege of Terra?
Very likely. That sounds exactly like the situation where Horus would want some of that patented Alpharius grease.

They'd probably be doing special Alpha Legion things not normal Marine things, though.

>>43722613
Oh and when I say they are second only to Assault Terminators, they are second only to OUR Assault Terminators. The Power Axe Shield Chargers make quick work of most Terminators.

>>43724012
>1) Militia doesn't get platoons, even though Auxilia does and they need them way less (more expensive units).
Pretty much just a fluff factor. Nothing "needs" plattoons, they're just a cool feature.

What's more needed is for basic Infantry squads to be able to go up to 30 models strong. Grenadiers are 20 and Levies are 50, yet the inbetween step, Infantry, are 10. Stupid.

>2) Infantry Squads are shit.
You get plenty of other options. Work with them. It's a bigger deal than say a Legion getting a duff unit like Justaerin, but it's not the end of the world.

>3) Either it's spamming levies or grenadiers with a bunch of Provenance, bog standard Militia built around infantry squads is a shit.
Way to cut out Ogryns, Sentinels, Thunderbolts, Platoon Command Squads, Leman Russes, Artillery, Heavy Weapon Squads, combat Force Commanders and the joys of Planetary Overlord. Or way to make " a bunch of Provenance" sound like it isn't in the order of 40+ different force-defining combinations. And there's Pyskers and Spawn for Mutants too.

Ultimately, nothing is stopping you from just playing Auxilia. Or if you ask your opponently nicely, just bring 40K guard.

(you never answered if you were that other anon, btw)

>>43724748
What do you mean they can charge without penalties? Phalanx squads have all the same rules as breachers, including the penalties from hardened armor. Phalanx squads are exactly the same as breachers except more expensive and with the initiative bonus and more wargear options. They both come with veterans, I have no idea what you're smoking. They are not better than breachers in every way. They are more expensive, pointlessly so. Ten of them costs more than twice as many tactical marines, all in exchange for being T5 (which is actually useful) and a bunch of largely irrelevant bonuses.

The fact that they may or may not work for you is purely anecdotal. You could do the same thing for fewer points, allowing you to spend more on units that actually accomplish things. They aren't worth the points increase over breachers. To be entirely honest, I don't think that breachers are worth the points themselves, even factoring in the RoW. Both units are a huge number of points better put into more artillery or something actually capable of killing marines.

>>43724748
>Extra opportunities to charge the enemy not possible with a regular Storm Eagle
You mean Outflanking, which forces you to spend the first turn off the board and if I recall correctly prevents you from charging the turn you arrive, which is turn 2 at the soonest? So charging at most turn 2 if you can do so, but probably turn 3? Versus simply starting on the board, using your status as a FAST SKIMMER to move into position and assault possibly on turn 1? If you want to keep this unit in reserve, the enormous speed means you gain little from Outflanking in any case. This, like a number of points in this debate, has been covered repeatedly already.

>it takes a dedicated transport spot in a FOC which is always helpful
This could be a good point, however I'm not seeing anything that allows a Darkwing to be taken as a Dedicated Transport.

>In an average army there are a lot more enemies that are affected by it than those that aren't.
That is not the point. The point is that Blind is an unreliable condition (especially when dependent on S4 AP5 attacks on Space Marines with I stats of 4 or greater) that generally returns less than the extra kills from S5. It is good agaisnt somethings, but it's again not worth a 25 point hike.

>Shield Charge does NOT give a true boost to the Breachers cuz you are dumb if you charge with Breachers.
Irrelevant. One, it's an option and a damn useful one if you can deny the enemy's charge, and two it's redundant with the expensive upgrade to turn Breachers into Warders.

>Phalanx can actually charge unlike Breachers without penalties.
What are you on about.

> Power Axes are an option because of Shield Charge as it makes the Phalanx more Charge friendly.
30 point models that make one attack at I 1 are not charge friendly. They're not anything friendly. They're both less lethal and less survivable than a Terminator with a Power Axe, or a Suzerain. They're just horrible value.

1/2

This is my Word Bearers list: http://pastebin.com/aQ93tEBf

I was wondering which is the better option for transporting the five terminators: the Land Raider Phobos and its Frag Launchers option, or the Proteus for its Explorator Augury Web?

>>43725132
>Nothing "needs" plattoons

Then how do I field more than 6 Troop choices? Because I'd love to take more units, but I can't.

>basic Infantry squads to be able to go up to 30 models strong

Still doesn't enable me to field more actual units.

>Infantry, are 10. Stupid.

No, infantry are 20.

>You get plenty of other options.

Which are either grenadiers, which is basically SA with some options, or levies, which are just shit conscript fodder.

>a Legion getting a duff unit like Justaerin

More like Legion Tactical Squads being shit and making you use anything but them.

>Way to cut

Talking about Troops here, anon.

>Ultimately, nothing is stopping you from just playing Auxilia

Except I want Army, not stormtroopers. Army, not stormtroopers lite. Army, not shitty conscript blocks. That's the one option that's not much of an option in the list dedicated to the core Imperial Army.

>Or if you ask your opponently nicely, just bring 40K guard.

Or FW actually giving us proper Imperial Army.

>>43724748
>Phalanx already comes with a veteran
I've already told you, all squads come with a veteran. Are you not reading other people's posts? The bonus of including a sergeant in most squads is 50 points, without add 5pts onto each additional model.

>Power Axe Warders get shield charge over Invictarii.
The ability you've already snubbed? Hammer of Wrath is not enough to make up for I 1, 1 A and a 3+ armour save.

>Basic Breachers can get one melee weapon only for the Sargent.
When those melee weapons cost 10 points on models that have 1 Attack and cannot claim the two-weapon bonus, and which is already overpriced, it doesn't make a difference.

>Also gonna mention since I actually play this army, when the enemy likes to deep strike inside my moving fortress Warders are the ones that take care of those guys.
Terminators or basic Breachers would do a better job for the same cost or less. This isn't about "can a unit do something", even Justaerin or Tyranid Pyrovores can do things. It's "can they do something effectively for their cost".

>list of advantages
Every single one of those has already be dealt with thus far. You need to reason why the criticisms agains them don't matter, not just repeat the point. And also the unit is no better at charging than normal Breachers - you're now repeating a point you're making for the first time in the same post.

>All these for five points more cost than normal isn't bad at all.
Uh no, "more options" and Breacher charges (same thing) is more than 5 points per model. It's just the situational +1 Initiative.

>They are Breachers which are better than Breachers in every way.
They are identical in every respect except:
- They have +1 Initiative when charged and more than 5 models strong
- They cost as much as 5 points more per head
- They can purchase some average to bad options, some of which negate the previous bonus
- They are Fast Attack choices without a Rite of War
Survivability, basic profile, movement, all identical.

>>43725315
>more artillery
What the fuck? Do you even play Imperial Fists?

>>43725323
>You mean Outflanking, which forces you to spend the first turn off the board and if I recall correctly prevents you from charging the turn you arrive, which is turn 2 at the soonest? So charging at most turn 2 if you can do so, but probably turn 3? Versus simply starting on the board, using your status as a FAST SKIMMER to move into position and assault possibly on turn 1? If you want to keep this unit in reserve, the enormous speed means you gain little from Outflanking in any case. This, like a number of points in this debate, has been covered repeatedly already.
And it's already been mentioned that there's no other option to do what the Darkwing does. Turn 2 Furious Charge is in many cases more helpful than turn 1 Furious Charge especially for the Ravenguard where the element of surprise is key.

>This could be a good point, however I'm not seeing anything that allows a Darkwing to be taken as a Dedicated Transport.
Veteran Tactical Squads and Terminators can take it as a Dedicated Transport if they don't exceed the transport capacity.

>returns less than the extra kills from S5
Blind's not meant to kill you do know that, right? Like even the first sentence when they describe what the Eclipse does says that.

>Irrelevant. One, it's an option and a damn useful one if you can deny the enemy's charge, and two it's redundant with the expensive upgrade to turn Breachers into Warders.
>What are you on about.
>Phalanx squads have all the same rules as breachers, including the penalties from hardened armor.
Only Breacher Hardened Armor has the -1 charge penalty not the Phalanx one. Combine that with power axes and you can down most TEQs.

>30 point models that make one attack at I 1 are not charge friendly.
Vanilla 15 point model cost. If they have combi weapons it's 20 points. 25 points if you go the power axe route. Where the fuck did you get the 30 point models from?

1/2