Warhammer 40k General

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First for Vehicle Damage table needs to be removed

>>43693495
>low quality
>no chicken
You sicken me

Any britfags in the berkshire area? Visiting in the end of January and am looking to buy a Ghostkeel. Was thinking if there's a nice FLGS or store that sells with a good discount to GW in either Reading or Windsor (or anywhere nice and scenic that is nearby)

>>43693531
shut up carnac, you'll never be happy

>>43693526
No, we need monsters damage table
Except for mechanicus, eldar and tau

Those aren't real monsters

>>43693546
Why would carnac want the chicken?

>>43693554
They should have made the Ta'unar and Stormsurge SHV. Too bad the rules for GCs are much better then SHV rules since you can get extra saves and ignore more stuff.

>>43693571

Chicken posters are the only people stupid enough to respond to continuously take his bait.

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New Chaos Space Marine Codex when? It would be cool to have an army that doesn't take half its stuff from Chaos Daemons since the main army doesn't have that many great options.

http://pastebin.com/9rT6GwyS

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come on FW... old or similar versions of current vehicles ok, but why would Spess Mureehns need even bigger tanks?
Wait wait, because of all that titans and knights and stuff. Wasn't 40k supposed to be a *miniature* game?

>>43693531
at least the 7edRef V6 is linked

>>43693543
Buy on eBay.

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>>43693596
>Pic

>>43693595
I guess Geedubs wants CSM players to play 30k

>>43693595

My friend started a KDK gorepack army and now that he heard Khorne won't be supported after 7e he is pretty butt hurt.

He knows CSM is garbage and doesn't want to try them yet he doesn't like the idea of playing an army like Daemons.

>>43693607
I would but I'd like to avoid shipping prices since I'll have me a nice big luggage that'll be mostly empty. I figured if I find a decent price for it (like say 10-20% off GW like most webstores do) I might fetch one while I'm there.

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>>43693611
here you go, dirty boy

>>43693583

Stormsurge a walker, Tau'nar a creature.

Reason?

Because the Stormsurge literally anchors itself to the fucking spot if anything should have rear armour values it should be the fucking Stormsurge.

Monstrous creature for most big ass robots, Walker for clunky shit that's genuinely too unagile to protect it's own butt, or that has exposed pilots and thus a transparent vulnerable spot.

>>43693645
oh baby

>>43693645
>>43693596
If it had wings people would buy it anyway and this hurts me.

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So since Necron don't have a Knight unit. What would you think of having a plastic Pylon with 8hp or so being the counter to LoW in other lists? And keep it at 420 points about? Are there updated rules for it with HP yet? This would seem the quickest way to give Necrons a non-suck LoW choice in the current meta. Since it seems everyone you want to play hates FW stuff out of hand, but will spam freaking Knights out the ass. Is this the only recourse.

>>43693620
This is exactly what I said in the 30k thread. Sticking to 30k mostly until a new CSM Codex is released.

>>43693623
Show him my list

http://pastebin.com/9rT6GwyS

It's daemon heavy, but really CSM these days is hard to pull off without being daemon heavy.

>>43693684
hm, maybe they give it the heavy tank shock rule with the ability to crush other tanks

>>43693596

So the Land Raider is already of dubious value nowadays because it's basically just an oversized APC so you pay 250 points for a moving box...

And they decided to make this thing an even bigger, even pricier undergunned transport?

Genius.

>>43693698
You act like they need a LOW or something

>>43693719
or the ability to carry Dreads into assault, like the currently released imba one.

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>>43693655
What gets me the most about the stormsurge's creature status is the fact that it's fucking open topped. Following that same line of thinking, sentinels should be monsters as well. A unit where the crew and control panel are clearly shown should be walker, even more so that its not a harness like the dread knight, but an actual cockpit like a tank.

>>43693698

Pylon is useless because it had Skyfire and interceptor and 7th edition decided all models with those two rules had to turn to overpriced shit.

This hurts my soul, after I went to so much effort to convert one from plastic GW bits then never got to play it with working rules.

>>43693742
GW planning ahead, make all these things monsters, then suddenly change it with codex update.

>>43693742

Shit I'd make a Walker:

Sentinel, War Walker, Dreadknight, Stormsurge, Penitent Engine.

Most other shit, prolly MC. It's being clunky and/or having a gaping vulnerability that justifies rear armour that's the main thing.

>>43693728
>You act like they need a LOW or something
They should have one and I want a LoW choice in all the army that ain't crap (Well, baring Orks but that's totally different topic). So a Pylon is the easy fix really just need rules for it that fit it in in the current edition. Or just make it so that no fucking Knights in pick up games. Knights are stupid unless it's a 3000+ points game anyway.

>>43693752
>This hurts my soul, after I went to so much effort to convert one from plastic GW bits then never got to play it with working rules.
Is there a worse feeling than that? Spending time, effort and dosh on making something and then soon after it gets squatted, nerfed to oblivion or modified in a way that it's a different unit entirely?

>>43693795
>no fucking Knights in pick up games.
You can
You know
Just not play against faggots like that
Just saying

>>43693752
>Skyfire and interceptor
You know I'd be ok if it stayed like that. All they have to do is add like a Titan-Killer rule whwew it fights at it's normal BS at GMC or Super Heavy vehicles. And then just snap fires at everything else. Would make where you would never spam the thing for smaller games. And it would only be around when fuckers started dropping Knights and shit like that. It would keep it balanced I think.

>>43693795
>>43693858
I kinda agree with both of y'all. I fought my friend's GK with a knight-errant and if I didn't take weapons against it, he'd have creamed me like a JAV bukkake video. On the other hand, it's a huge gamble for him because if you take it out in lower point games, that's like 1/3 of his army right fucking there.

>>43693858
>You can
>You know
>Just not play against faggots like that
>Just saying
When every other fucker autism fag has at least Knight to drop on the table.
You know I really wish it wasn't like that but it is. You're kind of an idiot not to know this. And asking no Knights will get you the whiniest of shit fits.

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>When faced with the stoic walls and defenses alien races, the Fire Caste had no choice but to throw their heaviest weapons against them. Although successful, engagements like these cost the lives of too many brave hammerhead tank crews. Too have greater success with fewer casualties was imperative, and it was with this in mind that the Ethereals petitioned the Earth Caste to create a capable weapon. The firepower came quickly, and easily, but when faced with a reliable platform the Earth Caste stumbled. It was Fio Butterscotch Vagina Face who was first to abandon the reliable hammerhead chassis and craft a new platform from scratch. The first in the line of new "ballistic suits" would perform two tasks. From afar it would anchor itself into the ground and pound upon the fortifications of the enemy until they were but rubble. Upon their destruction it would then storm the rubble, striding higher than even the new riptide battlesuit, its secondary weapons surging forth to annihilate the stunned survivors.
>Upon the Hive World of Agrellan the new Stormsurge battlesuit made its mark not only upon city walls, but to the delight of the fire caste commanders its weapons were equally adept at contending with the grotesque "Knight Titans" who defended them.

It's too late, it's fucked.

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Finally found the pic.

Is the Knight Titan in OP based on this?

>>43693495
Why is the guardsman the only one without a meme face?

>>43693723
Something about it has better assault rules or something.

>>43694164
Because he's an thinking "The shit I put up with" and "Fuck you faggots". Every other race is literally super for some reason, while guardsman is just some bloke.

>>43693543
Bumping for this. Come on lads. 45 pounds is hefty in eurobux.

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Here's an idea for discussion: take a unit from your codex that either fails to fufill its intended role, or has an unclear role at best, and try to rework it in a way so that it becomes more viable.

I'll start: take the basic godhammer pattern land raider, and replace its twin linked heavy bolter with a twin linked lascannon. Give it a new rule:
advanced targeting uplink
>if the land raider does not move, in the following shooting phase it may either gain tank hunter and monster hunter or fire one if its weapons twice. Reduce its transport capacity to 5 to make room for the other lascannon generator and essentially turn it into a razorback/predator on steroids. Keeps its point cost at the current 250.

The other raiders work well as assault transports while the godhammer was weirdly mixed as a tankhunter and transport, so I thought why not go all the way as an anti armour unit?

>>43694392
Warp Talons.

Make their blind always work, give them grenades, make them not scatter when deepstriking and make them able to charge on the turn they arrive. That way they would actually fulfill their role as alpha strikers and be worth the 30 points a pop as well.

>>43693596
>>43693645
You know looking at that makes me think with a little reworking. You could make this into a count as Squat landtrain car like the engine maybe or one of the other pieces in the long train.

>>43694451
That's a bit much. Even the Raven Guard formation with the Vanguard and scouts make you work to get to that point.

You were able to do that sort of stuff in 5th edition. And it was boring and sucked the fun out of the game when your dudes got wiped and there was nothing you could do about it.

Kind of like shooting now.

How are Tempestus Scions? Is it worth loading them with Melta/Plasma guns and deep striking behind vehicles, etc.?

>>43694504
I just don't see the point in making a unit with the intention of deepstriking it and inflicting blind... when they still scatter and the blind doesn't really work that often. And it's an assault-only unit.. with no assault grenades and they're stuck sitting around like fucking muppets when they're whole purpose for existing in the fluff and the tabletop is to ASSAULT as a rapid-strike unit from the warp, in a surprise attack.

And they do NONE of these things even remotely well AND you pay a premium for the privilege of sucking.

Just wonder how this goes.
In the Shield of Ball stuff for Necrons. In their Relics of the War in Heaven list it doesn't say anything about one per model like the Necron codex list. So could I put the Edge of Eternity and Solar Thermasite onto the same Overlord? It's not like they have a lot of stuff anyway.

>>43694392

Leman Russ

Bring back old Lumbering Behemoth rule (can fire all weapons at full BS regardless of movement or the nature(ie. Ordnance) of the weapons fired, but can only move 6+d6" if going cruising speed). Maybe also give it some kind of
independent targeting rule for the sponson weapons, too, but I think that should apply to all vehicles, not just the Russ.

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>>43693495
Hey to all of those in the know, I heard that the World Eaters in 30k operate similarly to the Carcharodons in 40k crunch wise.

Is this true? Is there any main difference? From what little I have seen they do seem similar.

I ask because this would give me an insight into how both work, and maybe let me understand both of their upsides and downsides.

Thanks guys.

>>43694585
This, Warp-Talons deserve to be stupidly good in the new book.

Give them AP2 as well, they cut through reality but not terminator armour? Fuck off with that fanfiction tier writing GW or actually reflect it on the table

This will never happen so we as might well go full broken shit in our dreams here.

>>43694577

Back when I played I had two melta suicide squads of Scions that'd deepstrike behind the biggest, juiciest rear-board target they could and light shit up until they died or the game was over. They consistently made more than their points back, but a part of that was sheer luck with scatter rolls and regroup tests, plus my opponent would usually leave their high-value shit with juicy gap towards an open area in the terrain.

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>>43694392
Pulse driver cannon gets armorbane and an extra shot
Cluster missile becomes 2d6+6
It gets a networked markerlight

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Will Shadowsun die, or at least be crippled?
>>43694710
Posting the superior version.

>>43694727
Fuck off.

>>43694392
Flayed Ones:
Can run and charge the turn they deep strike. They are kind of totally pointless without this really.
Oh, and make Scarab swarms 5+ armor save again or cheaper maybe.

>>43694733
No.

>>43694392
Remove Flash Gitz as a unit altogether. Any normal Nob may take a Big Shoota, Rokkit Launcha, or Kustom Mega Blasta.
Git Findas are a flat +1 bonus to Ballistic Skill.
Any Ork Nob/Mekboy can take a Kustom Job for *any* ranged weapon at 5 points/upgrade. Meks get the first upgrade free. Big Meks get the first two free. Upgrades are like in the 4e Ork dex: Shootier (+1 Strength), More Dakka (+1 shot), or Blasta (-1 AP, no extra gets hot tacked on).

The fluff mentions snazzguns as being everything from multi-barreled rocket propelled tubes to energy casters. Why not have some fun with that?

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>>43694733

Dude he worked hard to make that in photoshop. All that hardwork deserves meme status don't you think?

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>>43694392
4 Hull points
It Will Not Die as standard

>>43694784
Celery man?

>>43694667
Destroying high value units and causing havoc is what I'm looking for, and its great to hear that suicide squads work out.

I was also thinking of bringing Scout Sentinels to cover more ground with my Mechanized Army, and to slap an Augar Array on one to make it easier to send in the Scions.

So tomorrow my friend wants me to play with some of his Imperial Knights and Adeptus Mechanicus units cuz he's trying to convert me back to the Imperium since I am a Chaos guy. I have never played with either before. Based on what I have seen him have, I am pretty damn sure I can run this list. Is it good? I have never faced IKs and Cult Mechanicus before so idk how these guys work.


+++Imperial Knight Baronial Court+++

Knight Crusader - 485 points
-Rapid-fire Battle Cannon
-Stormspear Rocket Pod
-Sanctuary

Knight Paladin - 420 points
-Twin Icarus Autocannons
-Banner of Macharius Triumphant

Knight Gallant - 385 points
-Twin Icarus Autocannons
-Ravager


+++Allied Detachment: Cult Mechanicus+++

---HQ---

Tech-Priest Dominus - 170 points
-Eradication Ray
-Stasis Field
-Uncreator Gauntlet


---Troops---

(7) Kataphron Destroyers - 385 points
-7 Grav cannons
-1 Cognis Flamer

>>43694621
I'd love to have the option of +1 BS to Focus Fire on a single target if I have sponsons and don't Split Fire at normal BS with a Russ.

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>>43694392
Give the Flamestorm Cannons Torrent. Increase the price to 250 points like the other two models. Allows the sponsons to hit the same target, freeing PotMS for the Multi-Melta or Assault Cannon.

>>43694845

Personally, I wouldn't put an array on a S.Sentinel. They always felt too fragile for something like that. A Hellhound variant, maybe, or possibly a Chimera or Russ that blitzes up the board, but 2HP AV10 Open-Topped is not something I'd sink points into.

>>43694621
>Bring back old Lumbering Behemoth rule (can fire all weapons at full BS regardless of movement

That was never the old Lumbering Behemoth rule, it was that you can fire one more weapon then you were normally allowed which meant moving 6'', firing the main gun and then ONE weapon OR staying still and firing all guns. Now Leman Russes can fire more weapons then they ever could before, Im not sure why you fags keep bitching about this when the only two Ordnance tanks got slightly nerfed, did you cunts glue sponsons to your battle tanks and now cant unglue them or some shit?.

Thinking of starting up a SM list with a Chapter Master, but can't seem to find the rules for one that isn't papa smurf in the codex, any help?

How goofy would it be for me to model something like this on my BA successor chapter master? The chapter has a tradition that only the chapter master can drink Warboss blood.

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>>43695113
Forgot my picture.

>>43695112
Apply yourself

>>43695112
All the other characters are canon Chapter Masters. For a generic one, the Captain HQ has an upgrade that turns him into a Chapter Master.

>>43695113
>>43695144
Go for it. This is 40k, don't take it too seriously.

>>43695113
>>43695144
>How goofy

Do you even need to ask that?

>>43695144
Quite goofy indeed. But they're your models, if you want that, don't let anyone stop you,

>>43695173
>>43695185
Thanks.

Any rumors of Blood Angels in Mont'ka?

New Chaplain gives me hope.

Will a Decurion save Blood Angels?

Why are Sanguinary Guard considered bad because their weapons are two-handed?

Take the chapter banner and they get 4 attacks on the charge and one re-roll on a missed attack. That's as good as 5 attacks with no re-rolls.

>>43694989
Thanks, I'll probably take a Hellhound variant instead, considering its a Fast tank and the AV isn't too bad. I'm not familiar with Deep Striking shit, so I'd like to keep it safe and use an Array of some sort.

>>43695204
You'll get NOTHING

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>>43694392
Make this a codex option

>>43695204
>Why are Sanguinary Guard considered bad because their weapons are two-handed?

2-handed is one of the shittiest rules, fluffy but all it does is deny a pistol or extra cc bonus.

Two-handed items used to be relevant in the old Chaos / Orks books and governed what kind of gear you could carry

They should give them concussive or 1+ strength, the rule just hurts it's user.

>>43695204
Don't know. People seem to think that three attacks with master crafted on the charge is worse than four attack on the charge, which it isn't, it's actually statistically slightly better.

They are very expensive though.

>>43695020
Different guy. I did but I'm not that bitter about it. Now I use multi-melta sponsons. It works out pretty decently for me. If it's a blob or a tank a long range I shoot the battle cannon, and snap shot the other weapons. If the target is a vehicle close up I shoot the melta sponsons and skip the battle cannon. It works out pretty decently for me.

>>43693620
It worked. Tbh Im glad to be distancing myself from 40k. Im not a fan of the formations and the crazy power creep/power gaps.

>>43693723
It'll be a monstrous creature to ensure sales.

>>43695251
>it's actually statistically slightly better.
What? explain to me how rolling an extra dice when you miss one attack is better than just rolling an extra dice.

>>43693858
I think 1 Knight is ok in pick up games.

>>43694651
Yeah I wouldnt get my hopes up CSM bros. I expect to see a Blood Angels tier update, with what will be the worst formations in the game.

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>>43695020

Mmmm, basically. Hadda go dig it up, since my old 'dex is not near me atm and I haven't read it for yonks. The 5e rules were (excluding Fast vehicles etc.)

>0-6" All weapons
>6-12", 1 weapon + all weapons below S4
>12" No weapons
>ordnance = cannot fire any other weapons, full stop.

Now show me on the Space Marine where the Battle Cannon touched you.

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>>43694392
Drop the price a bit or give the main gun an alternate ammo type. Bane cannon could fire a high explosive shell that's similar but a little weaker to how it is now, maybe a S8 AP3 massive blast. The alternate mode would be geared to killing a single target fast. Trying to think of the profile that wouldn't be stupidly OP or under powered. Perhaps make it SD 3" blast, I don't know.

>>43695362
That is entirely dependent on the rest of the army. If it's all grav spam or invisa death star, I'll still call the guy a faggot and not play him.

So would it be acceptable to use different chapter tactics for your marine army?

Like one game I use imperial fist chapter tactics and maybe the sentinels of terra formations.

Another game I use the new raven guard formations in kauyon with raven guard tactics and maybe captain shrike.

As long as I let my opponent know beforehand it's not too cheesy is it? I don't want to be locked into one playstyle with the marines, the whole marine schtick is their flexibility to me.

>>43694885
>TFW 3 Knight list
YOUR FRIEND IS A COCK SUCKING FAGOT!!!
You're playing Chaos right?
If so, HE IS EVEN A BIGGER FAGOT THEN I THOUGHT!

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>>43694645
not really. the world eaters would be loud, vicious and leave a path of destruction in their wake

space sharks on the other hand are silent, don't wallow in their murder, and use precision

>>43694392
>1k sons
>150 points for 5, each additional dude is 22 points
>ap2 bolters
>can take 1 heavy bolter per 9
>sorcerer gets endurance and knows all tzeentch powers

i guess my thinking is that noise marines do volume of shots better so rubrics should have better quality of shots

>>43695876
No, you're perfectly fine with using different chapter tactics to suit whatever army you're running. I used to do that all the time until I settled in cozy with the Raptors Tactics.

Also, as another point. The Badab War Chapter Tactics are your best friend for varying it up, as with all of the Badab War Characters. You can seriously catch people off guard with some of them like Lias Issodon making Infiltrating Power Armor, or Sevrin Loth with the ability to PICK his psychic powers.

So, there's a few you should really look into for mixing shit up. Space Sharks, Raptors, Mantis Warriors, and Red Hunters are some of the best tactics for surprising the shit out of an opponent.

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Predictions for the 7E Ig?

People keep asking me if I've bought the Horus Heresy box yet.

Why would I? I don't play armies of the Imperium and even if I did, why would I get a box that's mostly just less poseable tacticals?

And yet they keep asking.

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>>43695884
>>mfw knights are the only thing I want to run out of all this new crap since 5th.

Not the other anon, but I have feels too!

>>43695900
Where the fuck do you go to get a supply of that stuff?
WIZARDS R US?!

>>43695916
Sweet thanks I'll go comb the pdf files for the badab war stuff

>>43695921
>less poseable
it's literally the tactical box, but all MK4 instead of a mix of MK6/7

>>43695900
I'm talking crunch with the World Eaters and Carcharodons, not fluff dude.

So /tg/ always asks about everyone's favorite and most hated primarchs, but who's the most "meh", mediocre, or uninteresting primarch and why Khan?

>>43695960
I'll make this easier for you.

Badab War Chapter Tactics:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Chapter_Tactics_V2.pdf

Badab War Characters:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Warhammer_40000/Forge_World_Space_Marine_Badab_Characters_V2.pdf

>>43695976

GW doesn't care about the White Scars.

>>43695976
That was true once but then Brotherhood of the Storm and Scars came out. So he is actually very interesting now. One of my favourite Primarchs actually.

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>>43696000
Perhaps you missed Kauyon?

>>43695962

Put them next to the latest tactical box, it's immediately noticeable the betrayal at calth bolter marines are to an older standard.

Terminators are decent.

>>43695976
Sanguinius. He's basically the superest of the super men, and that's horribly trite.

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Buy invasion bonds. The Flashlight men need you to do it.

In a casual, friendly game, is 6 thunderwolves too much?

>>43696116
Are you giving them Storm Shields?

>>43696020
you're an older standard, fag

I'm still mad they haven't made a new generic terminator box, in the style of the DA/BA ones.

>>43696142
Yes

>>43696116

One unit of basically anything is fine if you don't do dumb combos like invisibility tricks.

Don't take flyers under 1000 points. Not because they're too good, they aren't and prolly won't win you the game, they just distort the format of the game in a shitty way that makes it less fun for both parties.

So after playing 40k since release of 5th edition marines. Getting bored of it completly. Then reinvesting when the Magic crack den became a actual FLGS. And getting disintrested again i have realized i need a new army. I am stuck between chaos(have some shit for them already. Zerkers,DP,Lord in termie armour,10 bloodletters and 10 Plaguebearers+DV Chaos shit) Eldar(3 jetbikes,Farseer,Warlock,5 OLD 2nd? ed or older Rangers.) And Tau(I have fuck all so this is most wallet pain) I know Chaos suck in 6-7th ed. Even with daemons. But as a general fun to paint/build level all armies seem great. Tau have dem suits(most expensive army after i did my mathemagic) And cool infantry. Eldar have the best lookin vehicles and Chaos is cool overall(but fuck MORE POWER ARMOUR). Any advice how to decide fellow fa/tg/uys?

>>43696162

Okay, do me a favour:

Line up all the tactical marines armed with bolters from the box next time you're in a GW store. All in a line.

Note in awe the spectacular monopose.

Marines are always kinda samey in most squads, but not -that- samey nowadays.

>>43696224
Forgot to mention the local players avoid tournament shit unless testing new crap release(Oh god Admech gravcannon spam)

>>43696224
download the chaos/daemon codex, fix up your army and play a couple of games

>>43695976
You spelled Mortarion wrong

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>>43695920
>Predictions for the 7E Ig?

IG will remain a medium to medium-high tier army. Ogryns will remain unuseable. GW will release another Commissar model despite there being more than a dozen sculpts.

>>43695970
well the space sharks get fear, pistol/ccw for a point, and gain rage after destroying a unit or causing them to fall back. that along with the decurion, chapter tactics (what ever it's called that gives reroll). so you get a mid game reward which is cool but it doesn't seem worth it to me, but i'm a filthy chaos dude so what do i know?

world eaters get a butt load of special rules and weapons. might wanna ask the 30k guys

>>43696098
>>43696066
>>43695920
these are cute, but not that good. mostly i find that filter annoying to look at

Aight tee gee,

What army can I take which can do a passable take all comers build without being either horribly powerful or woefully pathetic?

Does such a mid-tier codex exist?

>>43696240
>Note in awe the spectacular monopose.
dude, they're full multiparts

most people are just boring in how they put marines together

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>>43696300
>these are cute, but not that good. mostly i find that filter annoying to look at
It's called saliva filter, Anon. If that messes with your eyes, try this on for size.

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>>43696162
>I'm still mad they haven't made a new generic terminator box

Tell me about it meng. I refuse to buy any of the current Terminators until they get updated, and only own the ones from Space Hulk and the 5 shitty ones from Black Reach.

>>43696316

I have yet to see a Betrayal of Calth marine not in that pose.

Arms a few millimetres more raised, head turned left or right a little, that's it.

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>>43696337
no, this is bad and you should feel bad. adding in a meme makes it even worse, terrible really

>>43696373
I'll stop. But that's probably what you see when Chaos shows up unexpectedly.

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Does anyone here know of IG heads that have face-covering helmets? I think I saw ones that were specifically based off of Doomguy, but I don't know who made them. I'm not looking for Tempestus Scions, necessarily, but if they're the closest approximation they'll do.

>>43696471
FW has Cadian heads with full helmets. I think it's called hostile environment gear or hostile atmosphere something?

>>43696471
Cadians or if you hate money, Forge World Elysians.

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>>43696368
I'm pretty convinced that the issue is that you can't pose the legs. I would throw money at a kit that had multi-part legs as well as multi-part arms.

The most I've ever been able to do was put one of these clowns in the CQC Stance, holding his combat knife parallel to his bolter.

>>43696357
Could you explain to a non-Marine player (which I guess I can't say really now due to BaC)? Are the new terminator boxes all chapter specific like DA Termis with robes, Blood Angel Termis with ... blood, etc?

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>>43696471

Pig Iron has a few if you're cool with third party bits. They fit Cadians perfectly as well.

Is there a book where IG become CSM at the end? Too new to tell if my friend is bullshitting or not.

>>43696565
Yeah, that's it.
>>43696496
>>43696533
Thanks anyway.

Quick, everyone give me the worst 40k puns you can think of!

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>>43696538

Yeah, the Dark Angels have their specific termie box that makes deathwing termies and deathwing knights.

Blood Angles also have their chapter specific assault termie box. Both sets have their chapter specific stuff. The generic termie box is kind of boring, not a lot of details or bits and the poses are not very dynamic. Needs to be updated badly.

>>43695920
Wyvvern formation will give them apocalyptic megablast 2 with fleshbane combo.

>>43696665
>Needs to be updated badly.
If you suck at modeling, yes.

>>43696888

>modeling

Aka, an activity that almost all players don't care about.

Hell, half the players don't even paint their shit.

Most people just want to slap it together and that've it look great.

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>>43696888

They're old kits man. You don't shame a CSM player who pines for new Chaos Marines because you can do good things with them if you're good at modelling. Don't do the same for those of us who want updated Terminators. #AllTerminatorsMatter

>>43696357

I just stole bits from the DA and BA kits and the SH and DV termies. It's the reason I decided on a bird theme for my dudes, I can just scrape off the blood drops and swords and just have everything covered with wings.

>>43696301
Well Space Marines will offer you the most options for a casual take all comers list.
You can do this with most armies though.

>>43696301
Tau, in a CAD, without the new GCs.

>>43696190
That is the answer to your question

>>43695920
2nd tier codex with a couple decently competitive formations that force you to buy some poor selling kits.

>>43697269
>that force you to buy some poor selling kits.
I'm counting on this. Sister Codex will be nothing but this.

How extensive is the use of AI, besides the use of drones, among the Tau? Are there AI advisers/administrators or something of that style?

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>>43697431
Drones, targeting assistance in suits, presumably the same in their fleet, but AI is meant to help people I don't think it's used autonomously yet

So I get how Thousand Sons are topping this they are the most tragic and interesting Chaos Legion.

http://strawpoll.me/5930412/r


I get how Astra Militarum is topping this they have overall the most options as an army in 40k and it's cool to see normal humans fight all sorts of aliens and monsters.

http://strawpoll.me/5992841/r


But WHY oh WHY are the Salamanders leading the best Space Marine chapter poll? They are black and they like to burn things. That's all there is to them.

http://strawpoll.me/5930460/r

>>43697431
water-cast have assistant drones, and they have engrams of peoples minds. (Ob'latai and puretide)

>>43697431
Extremely common, Everyday sighting. They go all the way from drones that help citizens with their shopping, drones that do heavy lifting. Construction Drones. Combat Drones. Flying Drones. Space Drones. Repair Drones, "Micro-drones" That get injected into people's blood and help repair their bodies internally, and such.

But despite how ubiquitous they are, the Tau Drones are roughly as intelligent as the simple AI's you find in real life. Which naturally means they're completely retarded and only capable of performing a single task; which they can do fairly well. You could compare their intelligence to that of a squirrel.

>>43697509
>But WHY oh WHY are the Salamanders leading the best Space Marine chapter poll? They are black and they like to burn things. That's all there is to them.
They're post human blacksmiths that live with their families and value human life.

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Okay so what if

Right

What if AP worked backwards

So you had AP values between 2 and 7

2 did nothing

3 means the best armour save you can take against it is a 3+, 2+ saves are demoted to 3+

4 means 2+ and 3+ saves are demoted to 4+

And so on up to 7 which ignores all armour saves

I haven't eaten anything all day

>>43697509
> Why are salamanders so popular

Because they're good people. Salamanders are the only space marine chapter that actually allows and even encourages their marines to visit their donor families whenever not fighting, or making shit.

That also brings to mind the fact that they actually make shit. Brand new shit, of artificer quality. They're all craftsmen that make stuff and lovingly maintain them in flawless quality. Heck, nearly all of their artifacts weren't items of religious or supernatural power, but simply made by space marines in momentary fits of artistic brilliance.

>>43694727
Image the cozy interior of that battlesuit. It'll be like a cool little clubhouse all to one's own. With big fuck-off guns on the outside.

>>43697509
>But WHY oh WHY are the Salamanders leading the best Space Marine chapter poll
They are the Not-Dickheads chapter

>>43694727
Holy shit, just imagine the conversation being had between the Shas'o being given this suit by a batshit insane Earth Caste engineer.

> "SHAS'O' BIG'DICKUS! I HAVE MADE A SUPERIOR BATTLESUIT FOR YOU!"

> "What is it no-.. Holy shit, why the fuck does it have so many dick guns!?"

>>43697641
I imagine that the Dorf Earth Caste Engineer doing that.
>>43697719
>by a batshit insane Earth Caste engineer.
He's a Dwarf Fortress Dorf.

>>43696018

Where they got beat up?

>>43694392
That is basically my thinking exact for the Land Raider. Either that or make it 220pts with tri-Bolter turrets and have the lascannons as options.

Anyway. I spend a lot of time reworking and homebending Warhammer, yet I don't think I can answer your question. I either change entire armies, or tweak lone items of wargear. Example:

Power Spear/Lance

Range -, Strength U, AP 2, Melee, Unwieldy, Spearwall, Charger

Spearwall: This weapon does not count as Unwieldy in the first round of any close combat in which the bearer is involved.

Charge: This weapon gains +1 S on the charge.

Power Lances are now more attractive to more units, and have some utility outside of the charge, without being outright better than the current profile.

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>>43697314
>Sister Codex

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>Oh you're one of Those People who decorate their tank interiors
You mean there are people who don't make their transports comfy for their squad?

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Does Farsight's Dawn Blade steals only lifetime to give it to its wielder, or does it actually steals vital energy (So, roughly lifetime and vital force) steal?
What would happen if Farsight learned the truth about his blade and tried to kill himself using it?

>>43698142
"Cronal energy" I think it is. So if he offed himself with it he'd just die.

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>>43694392
>BS4, A2 and 3+/5++
>Psychic Overload becomes WC1 Focused Witchfire that causes d3 wounds to the unit if said unit fails a 3d6 Ld-test. These wounds ignore armour and cover saves
>160 pts

>>43698142
Infinite life

>>43694155
I doubt it. I think thats double nagger, a mame founded on 4 chans subreddit page. /B/ I think.

>>43694392
Tau stealth suits.
straight 2+ cover save out in the open like the ghostkeel.
Make them troops choices. Keep the price. Fixed. All suit armies with all the actual suits available now viable.

>>43698306
All the suits are available now, you just have to be a little clever with the formations.

>>43695947
Space Walmart?

>>43698306
Just use formations and you can all suits all the time every day.
You don't get many markerlights though.

>>43698395
Infiltration cadre

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>>43698306

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>>43697314
>Sister Codex
>Ever

>>43697798
Where they got a shittonne of stuff.

Do people normally play unbound nowadays or should I be building my first list into the "normal" Force Org chart?

Anyone ever tried using Skarbrand with Green Tide? 100 orks with Hatred and Rage sounds interesting...

>>43698638
It depends on what you want to do.
My lists usually involve one or two units that I can't fit into an FOC or other so I just make everything unbound and toss them in.

>>43698638
In my group we dont, the upgrades that the normal force org and formations special rules are too good to give up

>>43698644
I was looking into doing this as well, I have a Weirdboy that is trying to take over my Waaagh with the help of Slaneesh(my friend plays Khorne so I thought it was pretty thematic).

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>>43695976
> Implying it's not Dorn

>>43695920

>New codex with artwork
>all the same units except for new models for a tech priest and a commisar.
>Leman Rus tanks now blow up on a roll of 6 on an enemy model's to hit roll
>Tank orders removed
>Infantry and Sentinel formation that gives you a reroll to hit in then first round of the game for those models
>Enemy gains 3 vp for each conscript runned off the table.

>>43697502
> Look at autozoom from thumbnail
> Image slightly blurry
> M82 RETCON DRONE
Man, I was excited for a second, i thought GW was being clever.

>>43695976
Khan
Corax
the Salamanders guy

The rest are interesting in their own ways.

>>43696020
Theyre the basic MKIV, thats how those legs and torsos have always looked.

>>43696337
I really like the funky shading it creates on those guardsmen posters. Like cel shading but not garbage, and with a silky texture I can't really describe. On greyscale images or when cranked up to a million like it is here, it looks like ass

>>43698788
>implying Dorn isn't the worst

>>43697592

Personally, I really like that, but I'm a fan of Armour Save modifiers, so I might be biased.

>>43698306
What rule are you looking at that give the ghostkeel 2+ cover in the open? Or did you just hear this from your cousin?

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Alright I've been looking at the eldar for some time now and I've got to ask, how's there learning curve? are they difficult to use? or are they some what like say, Space marine and crons in terms of difficulty play wise?

How well does /tg think this list will work in a semi-competitive FLGS? There's a few people running 30k shenanigans in 40k games, like primarchs and weird vehicles; and there's some fluffy eldar/chaos players as well.

Vraks Unending Host
**HQ**
Renegade Command Squad 90pt
Arch Demagogue w/ Master of the Horde
Disciple w/ Banner of Hate
3x Lasgun Disciples

**Elites**
Renegade Chaos Spawn 55pts
3x Spawn

Renegade Chaos Spawn 55pts
3x Spawn

*Troops*
Renegade Infantry Platoon 300pts
PCS w/ Krak Grenades
Demagogue w/ melta bomb
Renegade w/ chaos sigil
11x Lasgun Renegades
2x Plasma-gun Renegades
RIS w/ Krak Grenades
Champion w/ melta bomb
Renegade w/ chaos sigil
11x Lasgun Renegades
2x Plasma-gun Renegades
RIS w/ Krak Grenades
Champion w/ melta bomb
Renegade w/ chaos sigil
11x Lasgun Renegades
2x Plasma-gun Renegades
Renegade Infantry Platoon 270pts
PCS w/ Krak Grenades
Demagogue w/ melta bomb
Renegade w/ chaos sigil
11x Laspistol Renegades
2x Melta-gun Renegades
RIS w/ Krak Grenades
Champion w/ melta bomb
Renegade w/ chaos sigil
11x Laspistol Renegades
2x Melta-gun Renegades
RIS w/ Krak Grenades
Champion w/ melta bomb
Renegade w/ chaos sigil
11x Laspistol Renegades
2x Melta-gun Renegades
Renegade Mutant Rabble 30pts
10x Lasgun Mutants
Renegade Mutant Rabble 30pts
10x Lasgun Mutants

*Heavy Support*
Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery 70pts
3x Rapiers w/ 3 crew + militia training

*Fortification*
Aegis w/ Quadgun 100pts

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>>43699048
It can get worse.

>>43699390
You'll get your shit pushed in by Knights. Or anything that flies. Or anything that's invisible. You should really have a plan for at least two out of those three in any competitive format.

>>43699344
Eldar are slightly steeper than Marines or Necrons, but that's only because if you fuck up your positioning, things die very fast. You can mitigate that somewhat by going with a jetbike army and bringing a wraithknight. People may not like you though.

Im looking to wreck a nid player in a 1k match with tau. Currently i have a few 1k lists i use, all taking advantage of hunter contingent.

What would you guy suggest?

>>43699559
Not playing Tau.

>>43699559
Bro it's nids. Do you really need help kicking a man when he's down?

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>>43699519

>>43699534
Would I be able to deal with air via the Quadgun, and snap firing the plasma squads? And would the knights be at all inconvenienced by the rapiers and all the melta?

>>43699581
Im not awfully worried, but his roommate is 3-9 with blood angels. The fucker won a TWO V ONE match today. SM vs his 1k nids. I didnt watch (beating a csm player) but i look forward to a fight.

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>>43699559
>>43699559
>Im looking to wreck a nid player in a 1k match with tau.
For what purpose? What did he ever do to you?
>>43699597
That face. I now have a new reaction image.

>>43699573
Nah. I love 'em. I love winning. They fit me well.

>>43699625
He's on a winning streak. So am i. I want to keep the shop dominance. Plus everyone at the store wants to see us on the board.

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>>43699628
Tau players people. Tell the Nid player to listen to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNuX7bs2qAM
He'll need it to feel better.
>>43699651
>Plus everyone at the store wants to see us on the board.
They want to see a grown man beat a dying puppy to death?

>>43695970
Replace bolter with ccw+pistol for free or add ccw for 2 like all legions. Replace chainswords with chainaxes does free if properly WYSISYG.

They have to sets of rules; the first being so bad that fw gave then an update the next book so I'll skip that and tell you about Blood Madness : Rage but must always try to charge if possible and can never fail a leadership check due to Our Weapons Are Useless. Might also lose the ability to go to ground voluntarily.
RoW is strong, giving everyone hatred when in the any deployment One and can e-book pinning and 1s when running
All unique gear and relics suck for them

>>43699599
A quadgun hasn't been viable anti-air since it was introduced. Get some Heldrakes of your own, or maybe a hellblade. Chaos Fire Raptor is also good. Relying on snapshots that aren't twinlinked and also don't have good volume of fire is also a losing strategy for dealing with things that fly.

You're not taking enough rapiers to be a serious threat to knights, or even to SM battle company really. You don't have enough melta to reliably take them out either. Maulerfiends are a better bet for Knights.

>>43699651
>shop dominance
Lmao. Literally nobody cares about your scrublands LGS.

You will have a better time with 40k in the long run if you stop caring about things as petty as your win-loss record.

>>43699720
Blast! I wanted to get away with not bringing in additional detachments. I'll think on it a bit more, thanks for the help!

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>>43699390
First you can't take the spawn. They are only unlocked through the Master of Renegades rule which doesn't have a way to unlock spawn since you can't take covenant of tzeentch in the vraks book (Spawn being in the book was a editing error, its suppose to be the Marauders entry)

Also its really hard to understand what your troop sections is. Just say how many infantry there are per squad and what upgrades the unit took. The way you have it written is a giant wall of text and i have to spend time sifting through in order to add together your models to actually know how many models are in the unit. Write it something like this

15x Renegade Command Infantry
w/ Autoguns
+ Krak Grenades
+ 2x Plasmas
+ Chaos Sigil
w/ Demagogue
+ Meltabomb

There. its much more concise and it doesn't clutter the list with extra words (such as referring to everything as renegades)


As to actually critiquing the list if you aren't going to give your infantry squads militia training its not worth giving them lasguns and special weapons. Its much more efficient to equip them with CCW+Pistol because ws2 still hits most things in the game on 4+ so its not a draw back to being ws2 plus you usually cause more damage in close combat anyway (get en extra attack on the charge, attack during both player's turn instead of just in the shooting phase). Of course actually taking special weapons is important so I suggesting making one platoon combat focused (and make their special weapons flamers) and take the saving from that to make the other platoon have special weapon (probably plasma) and militia training. Then take the spare points you have from dropping the spawn you can't take to get a 2nd rapier battery and buff up the size of the CCW platoon.

>>43699344
Both Eldar and Dark Eldar very much rely on positioning and taking advantage of your mobility. You're looking at 4+ saves on 15 point models with T3. One good large blast and you're right fucked outta 90 points.
Be prepared to make cover your friend. Many of your weapons have a surprisingly short range; the cost of shooting with an absolutely terrifying punch. Getting your models there alive will require a lot of deep striking, careful movement, and cover.
This, of course, goes out the window with Wraith units, which play pretty much like Terminators with bigger guns, Terminators with Choppy swords, Dreadnaughts with AV11, and any analogy for Wraithknights being 40K on auto-pilot.

>>43699757
We dont. Were doing a pretty casual escalation league. No ones keeping or caring about score. Its just "oh hey these guys win a lot and we always play the same people. Yall should fight"

Eh, scratch that. Tell the Nid player to listen to this instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7QzxYAjgNc

>>43699772
Ah, my mistake. I thought the newest Forgeworld ruling was that you could use the spawn. Sadly, 4chan appears to have eaten my formatting, but it's good advice for future list ideas, so thanks.

The problem with that advice though, is that the unending host only has one heavy support slot, and I don't know if I can ally in a CAD under 1k points without a massive change, so I dunno if I can get more rapiers.

The Unending Host req is:
1 HQ
4 Troops
--Two of which need to be platoons

>>43693596
What is that gun in the front? Triple-melta?

>>43696281
>Ogryns will remain unuseable

Hell, it'll be every unit apart from Infantry, Vets, Sentinels and Russes that remain unusable.

>>43695920
Rough Riders will finally be squatted out of the codex.

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>>43699581
>Do you really need help kicking a man when he's down?
Well he is a Tau player...

>>43699651
>I want to keep the shop dominance
Oh shit, this is to much! Gotta be fake

>>43699798
>No ones keeping or caring about score
Yet you want to keep our dominance...

>>43694392
Genestealers can assault from outflank or can assault out of a Sporocyst
Pyrovore has an AP2 flamer with assault 2. Would make a good sacrifice unit inside a Sporocyst.

>>43699855
There is no official forge world ruling on the spawn dilemma. There have being email replys saying both things (ones that say you can take spawn and ones that say its an editing problem). Ultimately it clearly is an editing error (as master of renegades doesn't have a way to take a spawn but does have a way to take marauders who's entry is missing) and by strict RAW you can't take Spawn.

You are right that you don't have a slot for another Rapier Battery. The problem is as someone else mention is that you list doesn't have anyway to deal with big impending targets like IKs and such. A few on foot infantry with special weapons just won't cut it (especially without militia training). Renegades heavy lifting comes from the heavy support slot (rapiers, artillery, wyverns, russes) which is the major drawback of the Uneding Horde detachment is that it doesn't get access to those tools. At larger point games you can just take a CAD or the Purge in addition to Unending Host to take care of that problem but at only 1000 pts you can't afford it after taking the troops required to take Unending Host.

My advice if you plan on still running Unending Host is to commit wholly to the infantry. Trim the excess points on special weapons and characters and get as many recycling CCW+pistol renegades as possible with the only upgrades being a chaos sigil and krak grenades. Flood the board and focus on the mission because you aren't going to do a lot of damage with just infantry.

>>43699772
What do you think of this list? The purge was somewhat easier to justify than a full CAD, since minimum mutants are unlikely to do anything.

Vraks Unending Host!
*HQ*
Renegade Command Squad
+Arch Demagogue w/ Master of the Horde
+4x Shotguns

*Troops*
Renegade Infantry Platoon

...15 man Platoon Command Squad w/ lasguns
+Demagogue w/ Meltabomb
+2x Plasmagun
+Chaos Sigil
...15 man Platoon Infantry Squad w/ lasguns
+Champion w/ Meltabomb
+2x Plasmagun
+Chaos Sigil
...15 man Platoon Infantry Squad w/ lasguns
+Champion w/ Meltabomb
+2x Plasmagun
+Chaos Sigil

Renegade Infantry Platoon

...15 man Platoon Command Squad w/ laspistol+ccw
+Demagogue w/ Meltabomb
+2x Meltagun
+Chaos Sigil
...15 man Platoon Infantry Squad w/ laspistol+ccw
+Champion w/ Meltabomb
+2x Meltagun
+Chaos Sigil
...15 man Platoon Infantry Squad w/ laspistol+ccw
+Champion w/ Meltabomb
+2x Meltagun
+Chaos Sigil

Mutant Rabble
10x Lasgun Mutants
Mutant Rabble
10x Lasgun Mutants

The Purge!

*HQ*
Renegade Command Squad
+Arch Demagogue
+4x Shotguns

*Elites*
Disciples Squad
+Autocannon
+3x Lasguns

Disciples Squad
+Autocannon
+3x Lasguns

*Heavy Support*

3x Rapiers w/ 3 crew + militia training
3x Rapiers w/ 3 crew + militia training
1x Earthshaker Carriage

>>43700093
>Genestealers can assault from outflank
Why not from Infiltrate, they have that instead of outflank

>>43700128
This is still 1000pts, by the way. My bad.

>>43699344
They actually are more difficult to use if you're brand new to the hobby and don't know rules fluently yet. People will complain about them regardless because for any player that does know the rules, they can easily be made an unbearably powerful army

>>43700128
Well if you are trying to save points your extra renegade detachments don't also need renegade command squads. the 1+ requirement is for the army not detacments so you extra purge detachment can take an enforcer for its HQ slot.

Also I still stand that if you want to take the special weapons on your infantry squads you you give them militia training as well so that you can hit with them.

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>>43699792
Different poster here, but would it be a fair characterization to say people are pretty cool with an Eldar list that isn't spamming Wraith units?

I'm a fantasy player who's looking to get into 40k, and I've always enjoyed the Eldar aesthetic and the playstyle you described. I don't have a definitive list, but I'm really enjoying the idea of running a Biel Tan craftworld army; aspect warriors, tanks or walkers, especially the murder clowns in some capacity, and definitely a wraithlord (I've always loved the mini, even when it was the Eldar dreadnought), and then either the smaller wraith dudes, jetbikes, or psychic guys to fill out niches missed in a primarily martial-soldiery list.

I've been lurking these generals for a couple days, and though the Tau seem to be the current complaint of the day, Eldar get tossed around as the measuring stick for cheesy just as much.

The way some people talk about the pointy ears, I don't mind exercising some discretion in choosing which toy soldiers I play with.

>>43699559
Take Anti-Air because I guarantee he's packing two flying hive tyrants

He also abuses jinks and cover with venomthropes by putting his hordes in 4+ ruins, or having his tyrants jink when not in the air for a 2+ cover save

He might also use that horrendously under costed Forgeworld super venomthrope

>>43700133
do tau gunline armies even fear assaulting from reserves?

What's a Space Marines head with long, flowing locks of hair that doesn't look like a screaming jarhead?

>>43700221
There will always be the people that have a completely justified hate of the smug cunts that are my spess elves, but most players will just want to play a game.
Don't plop down a Wraithknight, 5 wave serpents, or an all-bike army and you won't lose out on too many games.

>>43700203
I knew I forgot to add another thing to the text. Yeah, the plasmas have militia training, they have no champions, and no melta bombs though. :p

>>43700221

For the most part, you'll be fine if you don't spam anything - one unit maximum for Wraithguard, Jetbikes etc is probably okay. It's when people take 3 units of these things that bring on the hate.

Wraithlords are weak units now, you'll get no hate for that one. If you mean Harlequins by 'Murder Clowns' that will also be okay, as they are actually considered quite weak.

>>43700226
>Forgeworld super venomthrope
Malanthropes are such a wonderful unit, that T5 makes all the difference

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>>43694727

We have our new cheese unit boys.

>>43700304
You're list is pretty fine then. The extra heavy support will help a bunch. The only big change I think would be to replace the meltas with flamers since that squad is still only bs2 it will be hard to actually get a hit with two single shot weapons and it will force you to assault vehicles that you can only hurt in close combat. With flamers you will do some damage, will be at targets you are better at assaulting and give you overwatch protection (plus will save 10 points per squad)

Also switch of you CCW squads into the other platoon to make them a command squad. That way their champion becomes a demagogue so you'll have two units with fanatic instead of just one (since being a command squad does nothing unless you take a champion).

Taking the flamers and with the 20 points saved from taking an enforcer in the Purge gives you like 50 pts to play with. Find 5 more and you can take a 2nd (seperate) Earthershaker carriage

>>43699390
Don't be afraid of knights with that much disposable infantry you will swamp a knight in melee and can bog them down like no tomorrow. also at 1000 pts you can only run a max of 2 knights but yeah follow the advice of the other posters and you'll do fine just remember knights are only 1 model and aren't effective at fighting hordes without support (in melee at least). Also knights aren't objective secured so just hold objectives with massed troops and throw the double dukes at any knights.

in addition spread your infantry blobs out make sure they are all spread out it will make them so much harder to kill.

>>43700459
*Can only hurt in close combat with a single meltabomb

>>43700459
I am confused by the enforcer suggestion. Doesn't the 1+ Renegade Command Squad requirement apply to each detachment?

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>>43700307
I see, seems fairly easy, variety is the spice of life anyways. And yes, I picked up that moniker for the Harlequins from 1d4chan and I liked it.

>>43700299
Thanks, I guess that can only be expected from mere Mon Keigh.

>>43700609
No. It just says 1+ command squad. No where does it specify detachments.

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Hiya Boyz, wondering if it would be better to use Dakkajets or Traktor guns for Vendetta/Heldrakes? Only reason I ask is because I noticed that Skyfire makes them fire at everything else as Snapshots....

>>43700886

Tractor Kannon is the best anti-air in the game for its price.

Been tweaking my 1500 IG list lately.

Not sure if I should keep the second executioner from the HQ squadron to the third Heavy Support slot.

Sorry for the shit formatting.

I tend to try to deepstrike the scions near the chimeras and hold objectives fairly well.

I think to bump up to 1850 I will add more scions to the units.

I have a pretty annoying time against my friends Ravenwing bike squad. He runs all the damn formations with a good handful of meltas.


1500/1500

Tank Commander (600pts)

Command Punisher

2x Multi-meltas, Heavy Bolter, Knight Commander Pask, Warlord

Executioner
2x Plasma Cannons, Heavy Bolter

Executioner
2x Plasma Cannons, Heavy Bolter

Elites

Militarum Tempestus Platoon (190pts)
Militarum Tempestus Scions
4x Tempestus Scion
Taurox Prime
Taurox Battle Cannon, Twin-linked Hot-shot Volley Gun
Tempestor
Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

Militarum Tempestus Platoon (190pts)
Militarum Tempestus Scions
4x Tempestus Scion
Taurox Prime
Tempestor
Plasma Pistol, Power Fist

Troops

Veterans (195pts)
Demolitions, Flak Armour for Squad, 8x Veteran w/ Lasgun, Veteran w/ Meltagun

Chimera
Augur Array, Autocannon*, Dozer Blade, Heavy Bolter

Veterans (195pts)
Demolitions, Flak Armour for Squad, 8x Veteran w/ Lasgun, Veteran w/ Meltagun

Chimera
Augur Array, Autocannon*, Dozer Blade,
Heavy Support

Wyvern Battery (65pts)

Wyvern Battery (65pts)

>>43695923
Then don't do pick up games. Tell people you want to play against them using Knights, let them think up a list built around that. Even fluffwise, most armies have a chance to pick counters to Knights, so it would fit better than in a pick up game anyway

>>43701155
Take Hellhounds, his bikes get no cover saves or Armour saves (if I remember right the AP is 3 right?) I'd also recommend Vendettas, it doesnt seem like he would be able to handle them. Otherwise weight of dice is going to be your friend.

>>43700221
If you only take foot guardians for troops, people have less problems with Eldar.

>>43701548
Inferno Cannon right? AP 4

>>43693596

Looted Battlefortress incoming!

>>43701816

Yeah, the Chem Cannon (Poisoned 2+) is AP3 and the Melta Cannon is AP2.

>>43699319

Ghostkeel has Stealth. (6+)

MV5 Stealth Drones grant any unit they're attached to Stealth, unless the unit already has Stealth, in which case they grant the unit Shrouded. The Ghostkeel already has Stealth, so gains Shrouded. Stealth and Shrouded stack. (4+)

The Ghostkeel has a Ghostkeel Electowarfare suite which doubles the effects of Stealth and/or Shrouded to to a maximum of 2+ against attacks more than 12 inches away. (2+).

So the Ghostkeel does have a 2+ cover save in the open, so long as it's being shot at from more than 12 inches away.

>>43701865
Is it bad that I want to see Chem Cannon with Torrent?

>>43701920
That's the advantage of the inferno cannon. The advantage of the Chem cannon is that it melts space marines, no saves allowed.

>>43695484
Maybe str 10 AP1 3" blast with Armourbane and Wrecker? Making it D would cause the shadowsword to fall further into disuse.

>>43693623
Source on Khorne not being supported after 7th? Mates about to drop 2k+ on a Khorne army

Tips for beating the War Convocation? My friend has been wrecking everyone with it lately, the Dragoons + Sicaran units are absolutely brutal when they all get the massive strength boost from the Canticles. Tons of high Strength attacks in your face t2, and if I focus on taking those units down, I leave his Dunecrawlers and Kataphrons untouched, so they can shoot my army to bits.

He's fast (Scout+Dunestrider when moving and charging), shooting (Plasma Kataphrons without Gets Hot, thanks War Convo), has a fucking Knight, can be durable if he uses the Shrouding Canticle, etc.

I play Renegades/Daemons btw

>>43693623
>Won't be supported after 7e

What do you mean? As in not getting more releases for a while? Well fuck, Khorne got his own army (KDK), lots of new minis for AoS which can easily be used in 40k, a plastic Greater Daemon..

So yeah you won't get more units most likely, but that's not the same as not being supported. The only chaos god who risks not getting love is Slaanesh.

>>43699697
Thanks bro!

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>>43702439
> I play Renegades/Daemons btw
RIP

Anyone have experience with the Forgeworld airbrush paints?

I ordered 4 pots of Chemos purple the other day for speedy basecoating of my EC

>>43702439
Daemonettes, spawns and seekers are your best friend when it comes to Chaos, they are cheap, cost effective and if you take a herald you might be able to get more on the field with summoning. Spawn are fast cheap and a great tarpit.

Seekers are my favorite unit, epcially if you give a herald the book.

On a side note, I don't know the renegade rules but if you got the daemon engines, mauler fiends are not to be underestimated with that speed.

Just don't move too far out and give him the charge turn 1, if he hides, congrats now you get the turn 2 charge of death.

If his units have too high I for your taste, add a unit of fiends, they give -5I to a unit when they charges.

Throw in the Slaanesh banner, -d3 WS on a turn will kill the crab something fierce.

As for the knight, I'd look at the renegade part because that thing is the bane of daemons, other then that, Unless you got a unit of plague bearers because those things make stupidly easy work of anything with HP.

Praise the Prince of sex drugs and rock'n'roll.

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>>43700399

>>43694451
>>43694767
>>43700093
Instead of assault from reserve entry, which is usually the domain of formation taxing, would it be better to deepstrike in the opponent's assault phase? His units could try to clear ground or steal the charge, so he can still anticipate, but the main issue of massed range fire is negated.

>>43702720
I guess you could do, but certain units still need to not scatter at all.

I always thought the difference between general deepstriking units would be "we need reinforcements, bring more in" whereas dedicated assault units for an ambush or similar would be biding their time for the perfect opportunity. Kinda fucks it up when they can come out into a wall and instagib themselves.

>>43693623
>>43702325
>>43702454
>my mates cousin aunts uncles friends mates mailmans brother's nephews aunts cousins mates says that his doctor's brothers uncle went into a GW once and they're totally not being supported

Khorne just got SHITLOADS of new stuff. Skarbrand for fucking example. i highly doubt this is the fucking end of Khorne. GW might be stupid, but they're not stupid enough to ignore one of their most popular armies.

>>43701788

Because so many people are complaining about Avengers right? I think what you mean to say is don't spam 3 man squads of scatter bikes.

>>43702799
Yes they are. All those units already have codices. Why would they care?

>>43702790
> NOW BROTHERS, WHEN THEIR GUNS ARE POINTING RIGHT AT US
> SHOUT LOUDER BROTHER, WE DO NOT HAVE THEIR ATTENTION

So lads why don't you go to a sperm bank and sell your spunk for minis? A single visit in the UK nets you 35 GBP and you're expected to come in like 1-2 times per week for 3-6 months. That's anywhere between 420 pounds to 1680 pounds.

You can literally build a slaaneshi legion with your jizz. What a crazy world!

>>43702790
Or they could give Chaos easy access to homers, like space marines.

I don't like the idea of loads of perfect deepstriking, as it's supposed to be a viable alternative, not a no brainer.

>>43702910
True, they should at least be a reasonable purchaseable option to dedicated assault units like Warp Talons and Mutilators. If you get to DS normally, then make the "charging from DS" either baked in or also purchaseable.

I just don't get it. Warp Talons have such great potential but they lack everything that makes an assaulter good. To top it off, if you give them these things, they become TOO OP. So what to do? Remove blind so you can add charging, no-scatter and assault grenades? Change their claws to some generic AP4 power weapon?

>>43702807
He's literally going

>KDK is dead
>Why is it dead?
>Cause Khorne isn't going to get anything after 7th

That's what he's saying. All new Khorne shit will be given a unit entry in WD and will say "Available for KDK armies", just like it did with Skarbrand.

>>43702949
Ah right I get you.

Khorne will be supported definitely, but KDK will die a slow death when CSM and CD 7ed come out. But that was obvious from the get go nearly.

>>43702949
They didn't make Skarbrand available for KDK

>>43703075
Oh. Well, he can be Allied as Daemon army then.

Either way, Khorne has lots of shit. Tzeentch has literally zero unique Forge World units. Even Slaanesh has unique ones.

>>43698377
Nah, nah, it's the space dollar store that they go to. The one with all the incense and arts supplies.

>>43695900
As a 1k sons player, that's rather interesting but perhaps AP 2 bolter is a bit too OP. In 40k there's usually a few shooting "conventions" so to speak:

If it's high strength, it's got low AP. If it has good AP as well, it has 1-2 shots at most.
If it's low strength and low AP, it's usually high volume of shots or can be taken en masse cheaply.
It's average all-around

Having AP3 bolters at range at a good volume of shots is already pretty damn good. The 4+ invuln is also damn good. The firepower or survivability of Rubric Marines isn't the problem. The mandatory extremely shitty 58 point sorcerer and the inability to take any other weapons at all is what's wrong with them.

Leave the points alone, but allow them to take heavy bolters for free 1 per 4 (so a fluffy squad of 8+1 sorc gives you 2) and give them grenades.

Then either leave the sorc as is but cut him down to 20 points from 58 OR leave his points as is but give him baked in spell familiar and an extra wound.

changing the Mark of Tzeentch to allow you to harness charges on a 3+ instead of 4+ would be nice too, and it'd only affect like 3 units in the whole codex anyway.

>>43703342
I think they should bring back rubric terminators as well, that would be pretty cool.

>>43693961
>And asking no Knights will get you the whiniest of shit fits.
Really? people who bitch that you don't want to fight their faggotry and just want a casual game?

>>43694392
This never works. It's always fucking retards buffing their own shit until everything is broken.

But make vespid 14 pts a model, or make them jet pack

>>43703376
Its amusing that some people consider Imperial Knights as something unkillable.

You really should revise your list if it isnt capable of handling a single knight.

>>43703365
Those are easy to make honestly. The defining trait of Rubrics are that they're relentless lumbering units led by a sorcerer and shoot sorcerous bolts. Simply make Chaos Terminator Champions able to become psykers and make inferno bolts purchaseable for bolt weaponry if the bearer has the Mark of Tzeentch.

All of a sudden, through those little changes, you have your 1k sons legion trait more or less. The rest is your modelling, painting and fluff.

>>43703404
>You really should revise your list if it isnt capable of handling a single knight.
Well, it takes a lot of tailoring to fight even one Knight in most lists if you just don't bring your own KEQ. And some people don't like GMC or Super Heavy units in smaller games they really slew the balance too much. It's like bring a Gatling gun to a pistol duel it's just totally dishonorable and unfair.

>>43703380

Assault 2 on their gun'd work.

They're not bad in terms of stealth ruins plus move through cover plus ruins being the most common terrain,

They're crappy assault units, but initiative 5, hit and run, an assault shooting weapon and hammer of wrath give them a little utility to tie things up in a pinch. Needs smart maneuvering and timing, but a Tau "assault unit" really should be more about strategy than damage, so that's fine.

Their big issue is their fire output is so low.

>>43698638
Very few people use unbound for the simple reason that it isn't a challenge. You don't "build" an unbound list, you just bring along whatever models to the game. It's not like the points matter when you can literally take whatever.

Even if you do agree to a points limit there's no guarantee that either side's list will be a fair and fun challenge for the other. It makes more sense if two seasoned players negotiate and work out some fuzzy arrangement or novelty scenario, and simply put this is a minority of all warhammer games. Most seasoned players are not interested in pure fucking around and like a proper challenge to flex their muscles, while newbies are exactly the type of person who can't be trusted with a rules-less system.

And of course, because list-building is non-existant besides "look at this absurd combo" as with this post >>43698644, you don't see much talk of it on forums and boards. Most of the obvious borked combos have already been discovered or are redundant with each other.

>>43702906

Don't you have to be like a really smart man with a job as a doctor or engineer and good looks and etc etc

>>43699390
It doesn't look too bad from a glance but I don't know if I can completey thumb it up. The reason for that is that I literally can't read that block of text in the middle. Before you can work on your list design, you must first work on list presentation. There's about five or ten linebreaks that stodgy paragraph will dearly appreciate.

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>>43703553
>good looks
>what women care about
Lol. You were on the mark with the first few points.

>>43703488
On scale of 10-10, how fluffybunny are you? It doesnt take that much to do a list that can handle a single knight in 1-2 rounds of shooting. Every race can achieve that.

>>43699295
Well, (not typing like a retard now as I've had a few hours sleep and some juice) my favoured system is one where armour modifies the Strength of incoming attacks by percentages. So a marine might have an Armour value of 7, and take an attack from a Penetration 3 weapon. This leaves 4 Armour points, which reduces the strength of the attack by 40% rd.

It's less complicated than it might appear as it can be represented on a 10x10 table, which is no more difficult to remember or arbitrary than say the WSvWS to-hit table. The extra granularity also allows for models with multiple armour types to stack onto each other, ie a model with just a helmet has 1 point of armour while a breastplate and one shoulder has 3, and buying a Refractor Field adds one or two irreducible points to the total.

But I'm happy with Warhams armour systems and similar because they are very simple, and profide a different vector of survivability to Toughness - one's a smooth gradient, the other's an all-or-nothing boundary.

Another thought about the "Everything's an old Ork Choppa" system: Invulnerable saves are basically just unmodifiable Armour saves. Seeing as all cases of saves being ignored are simply "reduced to nothing". Changes the way you look at it, as a threshold on the maximum valuable AP throwable at the model instead of a reduced penalty on taking high AP attacks.

>>43703597
>It doesnt take that much to do a list that can handle a single knight in 1-2 rounds of shooting.
>TFW you play Orks, Nids or Chaos Daemons non KDK.
Well fuck you too asshole, it's people like you that need to be marched to the death camps. :)

>>43703729
You can list tailor pretty nicely to beat it with Nids and Orks, at least.
Chaos, not so much.

>>43702439
First off, your friend sounds like an asshole. You guys are buds and shouldn't bring that shit to play each other.

As a guy who plays the exact same kind of army, here are some tips.

+Medusa carriages with Renegades are fucking boss. Bastion Breachers should take out those Knights no problem.
+Pink Horrors. Just summon reinforcements when you start losing your hordes o'daemons and Renegades. It works for me every time.
+Rapiers. Every vehicle shits itself at Rapiers.
+Chaos Spawn. Renegades get the best Spawn, and if you take Mutant Overlord, we can get 3 Giant Chaos Spawn, which are fucking AMAZING. They should keep the Robots at bay for awhile.

Good luck guy!

>>43703729

>Daemons

Run your biomancy prince at the knight, then summon Slaaneshi shit for rending as a backup.

Hell, unprepared for it I beat a three Knight and some Skitarii list in a pickup game doing that. Some of my other shit was useless, like a Lord of Change who took the entire game to do two hull points vector striking and a huge flesh hound blob that basically had to resort to tarpitting to buy time, but Daemons are a toolkit army that can do whatever you need if you hedge your bets on the shity random power tables right.

>>43703729
>3x10 tankbustas
>"What is Flyrants?"
>Screamers
Try again scrub.

>>43703743
CSM have Forgefiends, which aren't bad for the weight of shots they shit out. Default Hades give you 8 S8 shots and Daemonforge allows rerolls to armour pen. 5s on the front to glance, 4s on the side. Distract with some melta bikers and you should have a decent chance of taking one out at not much cost.

>>43703790

>Screamers against AV13

Daemons have anti-knight, but that is not their anti-knight.

>>43701912
But it's equally arguable that the drones replace the ghostkeel's stealth with shrouded which means it only gets +4 to its cover save 12" away.
The wording is really fucky

>>43703824

And then the drones themselves get stealth, meaning it doesn't matter.

>>43703824
What? No. The rule is clearly written. The drones grant Stealth. If the model already has Stealth, then the drones give Shrouded instead.

It doesn't upgrade stealth to shrouded. It sees if you already have Stealth and gives you Shrouded if you do. It's like someone double-checking if you have a videogame before buying it for you as a gift, to avoid that pointless clash.

Of course, given that the suits do already have Stealth, the rule on the Stealth Drones could just read "Shrouded" and it would be mechanically identical.

Whee.

>>43703894
Ahh, but because it *isn't* the Stealth or Shrouded rule/s you can claim the bonus from it and from the main special rule at the same time.

(I don't know if that's relevant, I'm just sayin)

>>43703894
Maybe it was made that way for the chance that the Ghostkeel was killed and you joined the drones with an independent character?

>>43703918
>>43703894
Maybe. Honestly it confuses me too. Not like characters can join MCs anyway and both Stealth and Shrouded are conferred rules so I dunno why the fuck didn't the drones just have Shrouded.

That way the Ghostkeel gives the drones Stealth and the Drones give the Ghostkeel shrouded. The warfare suite gives the Keel the bonuses and you're done. If the drones die, the keel loses shrouded anyway.

It feels as if it was made with something non-existent in mind, like being able to join MCs.

>>43703940
Is that even possible?

First time playing Vanilla Marines. I usually play Space Wolves. I made this fun little list based on what models I do have and what I think is neat in the Vanilla Marine codex.

Demi-Company:

Captain (Terminator armour, Chapter Master, Burning Blade, Chain-Fist, Auspex.) 205 points

Command Squad (Apothecary, Champion, Company Standard, 3 Power Shields, 1 Lightning Claw, 1 Power Axe, 1 Power Maul) 210 points

Tactical Squad (8 Tacticals, Grav-Gun, Heavy Bolter, Power Sword Sergeant) 138 points

Tactical Squad (8 Tacticals, Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter, Power Sword Sergeant) 138 points

Tactical Squad (8 Tacticals, Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, Power Sword Sergeant) 138 points

Assault Squad (5 Assault, Jump Packs, Flamer, Power Sword Sergeant) 105 points

Centurion Devastators (3 Centurions, 3 Twin-Linked Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers, Omniscope) 250 points

Venerable Dreadnought (Extra Armour, Power Fist w/ Heavy Flamer, Multimelta) 145 points

Librarius Conclave:

Chief Librarian Tigurius, 165 points

Librarian (Terminator Armour, Force Stave, Storm Shield, ML2) 125 points

Librarian (Force Sword, ML2) 90 points

Thoughts?

>>43703994
sorry, forgot to mention, it's 1751 points

>>43703965
As far as I can remember the rules I think so. Normally you can't join a unit with a monstrous creature, but after the Ghostkeel is dead you are left with a unit of jump infantry, so you can join an independent character.
It's really not that improbable, since the Ghostkeel is the only case where you want to use the MC as a shield to the drones and not vice versa, so the drones may potentially survive the death of the Ghostkeel.
It's something rather unlikely, but maybe GW made it that way to avoid giving a commander Stealth+Shrouded.

>>43704016
Huh, that is interesting yeah. Now comes the more interesting part. What units with stealth can be given the keel's drones to get shrouded? Kroot? Would they get Shrouded (Forests) or just shrouded?

>>43703894
Except when you manage to snipe down the Ghostkeel and only drones are left. With the current rules drones have stealth, with your version drones would have shrouded. Somehow you managed to buff tau even if in a minor way. I hope GW recruits you to write the next tau codex in year or two.

>>43704042

Which would of course be utterly meaningless, I hope you realise.

>>43703488
You're missing the point. Point is you need to tailor a list to take one of them down, and SERIOUSLY tailor it to take down more than one before they wreck your shit.

Unless you play eldar or necrons or tau of course, but nobody who does cares about game balance, because theyre so far on top.

>>43698196
>synapse grants eternal warrior.
>nids fixed

>>43704030
They'd get shrouded when theyre in the forests, and stealth out of forests. Its pretty clearly worded, Im not sure where the confusion is.

>>43703790
>3x10 tankbustas
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Not even insane Ork players would take that many tankbustas and they have shit for saves. Most would not survive long enough to shoot. Let alone doing anywhere near enough damage to get even close to bringing it down.

>>43704183
>this git

>ork player here
>start every list off
>2x 15 tankbustas
>2 x Battle Wagon RR

Tankbustas are the best ork unit right now. If its a tank, or has a 3+, it's going away when they look at it.

>>43704164
Fair enough, I wasn't confused I was just double-checking. Perhaps Stealth (Forests) doesn't count as stealth since unworded it means +1 cover save EVERYWHERE.

>>43704183
Didn't an ork army won a tournament with a list entirely composed of tankbustas in trukks and bikerzs?

>>43704218
I wouldn't doubt it, I could see them in Battle Wagons, but not trukks. Anything can blow a trukk up, and when they blow, half of what every ork unit inside dies. That's why you take BWs if you want to get your important models there alive.

>>43704231
Found it.

Combined Arms Detachment – Primary Detachment

HQ

Zhadsnark ‘Da Rippa’150 (Warlord)

Warboss: Da Lucky Stikk; power klaw; warbike 135

Troops

15 Warbikerz: Boss Nob (power klaw) 305

3 Warbikerz54

3 Warbikerz54

Allied Detachment – Secondary Detachment

HQ

Painboy: grot orderly; warbike 80

Troops

10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35

Great Waaagh! – Secondary Detachment

HQ

Big Mek: Mega Force Field; killsaw; warbike 165

Warboss: Big Bosspole; power klaw; warbike 130

Troops

10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35

10 Gretchin: + 1 Runtherd 35

Elite

8 Tankbustas104

Trukk: Rokkit Launcha 30

8 Tankbustas104

Trukk: Rokkit Launcha 30

8 Tankbustas104

Trukk: Rokkit Launcha 30

8 Tankbustas104

Trukk: Rokkit Launcha 30

8 Tankbustas104

Trukk: Rokkit Launcha 30

>So far the army has performed really well for me with only 6 loses out of 25 games.

>Here what my tournament history looks like with the army so far.

>1st out of 20 player Local RTT
>7th out of 30 player Assault on Kokoytos
>1st out of 56 player Storm of Silence
>14 out of 47 player Guardian Cup

>>43704259
I always tell my friends this. You maybe playing a "tournament list"/tier 1 army, but if you don't know how to play the army and haven't practiced with it, you're probably not going to do to well with it. Also, everyone's meta is a little bit different, you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you my meta was 85% close combat oriented. But it do.

Some thoughts I've had in response to DE players getting sick of being a low-tier army.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12492p140-played-against-new-sm-book-im-done-with-de-for-now

Does it matter if you better dakka than the other factions, or does it matter if you have more? If the Imperium is in a battle where they have better dakka than Chaos, but Chaos's dakka is more plentiful but lesser in quality, who's doing it right?

Does your level of painting have to be super high quality to be eligible for commission work?