EDH/Commander general

>at walmart
>they're selling the new decks for 40 dollars
haha what?

First for I thought about doing it but didn't want to be bothered finding the pasta.

Can you use Phyrexian Altar more than once a turn?

>>43668287
I picked them up for $32 from one of my LGSs

>>43668337
yes

Is Jhoira a suitable commander for the new UR pre-con?
Is the new Drana literally meant for Voltron based strategies?
Why is Daretti so shit/ "no-fun/pleb tier"?

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is wrexial any good?

>>43668161
I need sweet tech for Daxos the Returned. Give me sweet tech, /tg/.

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So I just completed my first deck through tappedout. It's all fun and handy, but I have a slight problem.
Most if not all of the cards are stuff I don't have or my friends don't have and/or willing to part with. The average price to gather all the cards is $250+ and the only real cards I have for this are green ramping and basic lands.

Have you guys ever spent more than $200 to complete a deck? Maybe it's because I never had an expensive hobby but spending that much seems a bit far.

>>43668613
Tappedout puts my Nin, the Pain Artist at $1265.

>>43668613
Dude.

I've probably spent close to $3000.

And all I play is commander cube.

>>43668660
>Commander cube
I've thought of doing this; how do you do it?

>>43668613
tapped out puts my derevi deck at $670

>>43668613

Slowly, but sure. I'm sure there will be a bulk of really cheap cards that you can buy for like $30, and then a dozen or so cards that are actually $10+. Pick the bulk cards first, and assess which of the more expensive ones make some truly unique and/or are irreplaceable and get them second. Then you go for the expensive "good but not essential" cards.

>>43668672
It's basically

7 Packs of 15

Pick your commander within those 7

Then add lands. duals etc are included in the cube.

>>43668684
Are all the creatures legendary, or just an abundance? What if I draft mono legendaries, is it possible to not end up with enough cards in your color(s) if you only end up with a mono or dual legend?

>>43668287
$36.xx at mine.

>>43668698
Assuming color identity is relaxed in cube (it should be), and with widely available mana rocks and every color land, you should be alright. Most cubes have enough legendaries in them that there should never be any situation where the only legend you pick up is mono colored, unless you were purposefully doing it.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a low cost instant to take control of a target creature for more than just a turn in w,u, or b?

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>>43668820

Dreamscape artist is still bad, whoever was defending that piece of shit card in the last thread.

>>43668820
There aren't any.

Guys, what's fun about lower powered edh? I basically play legacy with a single card limit, and i just don't understand how people don't like high powered magic. What do?

>>43668844
>>43668840
There are, he just needs to put the effort in. I've already found 2 situationally useful effects that fit his criteria, and I'm not even halfway done skimming the search I provided.

>>43668820
Gather Specimens. Nix the low-cost-instant part, you won't find it.

>>43668820
For MORE than a turn?

Is Snap worth having in an EDH deck?

>>43668592
Teysa, Orzhov Scion.

Make enchantment spirits with Daxos, sac them to Teysa to exile and get three new white spirites which you can use to sac more things.

Combined with the cat that comes in the deck, you also get cat tokens off of the enchantment spirits which means even more material to sac for exile. Control the board, control the game.

>>43668882
Only if you're running Snapcaster Mage.

I bought the WR pre-con as a way to get back into commander. I have a desire to make it voltron. Any help?

>>43668820
Debt of Loyalty, Dominate, Reins of Power. All very situational.

>>43668886
Run Darkest Hour so the spirits Teysa gives you infinite spirits to sacrifice. Then use her as your commander because you may as well at this point.

>>43668918
Doesn't work, I was trying to build around her earlier. Darkest Hour makes the tokens non-white.

>>43668882
Yes.

>>43668930
>>43668918
Note that darkest hour is run in Teysa decks anyways because it makes for dead opponents with a Altar of Dementia or a different sac outlet and a Blood Artist/Zulaport Cutthroat

What are the key non-legendary creatures for a Sliver deck? So far I have

>Double Strike
>First Strike
>Trample
>Flying
>Tokens
>Flash
>Anti-Counter
>+X/+X
>Regeneration
>Deathtouch
>Lifelink
>Mana Source
>unblockable

Overlord will be my commander and I already have Hivelord. I want to avoid Queen and Legion for now because they're $40 cards. What are the other key Slivers?

>>43668930
That was my point. If you have some OTHER sacrifice outlet, you get infinite things to sac. Blasting Station, for example, kills the entire table.

>>43668955
>What are the other key Slivers?

Prophet of Kruphix.

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>>43668972

>>43668993
Not even shitting with that. Prophet is probably the best card in Sliver Overlord because A) it gives you the mana to activate him, and B) it lets you flash in the thing you just got.

>>43668965
>>43668965
I hear that, but in a void (which happens a lot) I like to be able to use my commander's abilities. I'm putting in bitterblossom with a handful of other token makers to activate her second ability. I love how well Daxos and nuTeysa goes with her

>>43668952
meant to reply to you too here, family:
>>43668999

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>>43668955
Shakira Shakira

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>>43668613
>multiple EDH decks cap out at ~$1300
>"is $200 too much?"
>reconsiders life choices
>mfw

>>43668911
Voltron is stupid and so are you?

>>43668955
Ghostflame Sliver. Gets you around color based protections.

Also makes Ugin a hilarious choice for the deck.

>>43669112
They're investments, Anon. If you've had them a while, they've likely gone up in value. Trickbind was $1 when I got mine, now it's $5.

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>>43668613
My landbase costs 200€ alone.

Goddamn.

>>43669205
Thanks family.

>>43669130
Fuck off man. I'm not even that anon, but that is unhelpful as shit and unnecessary. If you don't want to help, just don't reply, instead of being a shitter about it. Fuck.

Do any anons have experience in playing a 5 color control/ fun police deck in a very diverse and competitive meta? Not a Narset or Wonder meta but more Oona, Vish Kul, Krenko, Oloro and Simic meta?
I'm thinking of just sticking Child or Progenitus at the helm.

>>43668613
It's amazing really. My most competitive deck is a Derevi deck which maybe has $60 of value in it, followed by a Purphoros deck which is about the same. Teysa 1.0, Noyan Dar, Sharuum and Ashling cost around $30 a piece.

How people are spending fucking loads of money in anything except five color ABUR land filled decks is beyond me.

>>43668955
>>43668955
You also want vindicate (necrotic ), auta shards (harmonic), and hibernation sliver. Also, consider playing aluren/ glimpse combo with dormant sliver if you can't afford queen for the other combo.

>>43669169
And you can run all is dust

>>43669411
I am that anon. Thank you for the concern. I didn't reply to that anon because it'd be a waste of time if that's the kind of person they are.

Where my arjun niggas at
>casting spells
>diggin for whatever you need just by existing
>winning every counterspell war
>mutha fuckin diviners wand

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/arjun-edh/
r8, h8, share tech.

>>43668161
played a bunch of games with the prebuilt commanders this weekend.

It really is shame to feel how much weaker Daxos/Kalemne is to the other three.

Mizzix, gets too many counters way too fucking fast.

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Okay. How stupid would it be to put all the experience counter legends in to a Cromat deck? Because I'm tempted to try it. Although I'm unsure what direction I'd go with the rest of the deck.

>>43670789
Wait a minute, the experience counters don't count for the others so they? Mind blown

>>43670813
Experience counters are placed on the player, so they count for eachother.

>>43670789
I think some of the commanders (Kalemne) would be really powerful, if they could get exp counters from another source

>>43670813
Experience counters are on the player, and share the same rules for all "counters" for example, you can proliferate them.

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How do I into Scarycrows?

>>43670789
was playing with the vanilla precons with some friends. I was using mizzix and had talrand out when I stole somones ezuri.
>cast spell, triggers mizzix, counter.
>triggers talrand, drake
>triggers ezuri, counter
>combat
>ezuri counters all stack on one drake

It was amazing.

>>43670789
Run ever instant/sorcery that makes tokens, that will benefit both mizzix and ezuri, Run efficient sac outlets for merin, A few fireballs to oneshot people when you have like 40 counters. khalmene can just be a fantastically efficient fatty, and daxos will poop out fantastically efficient fattys.

>>43668287
29.99 online :/

>>43670874

Changelings.

No, seriously.

and the last nominee for most autistic post of the year goes to Anon, with post >>43670340, for his stunning declaration of love for the autizzet guild.

Wait, we have a surprise contender, and it's post number >>43671100

>>43669104
I will make sure to grab that to complement the Root Sliver.
>>43669169
I haven't seen that as a problem in my local meta but I'll grab one just in case.
>>43669675
I'm curious about Dormant Sliver. How do I get around the Defender? Do I sac it once I've drawn enough cards?

>>43671104
Good job on topping them both with your utterly autistic meta-autism post. You've truly perfected the art.

>>43668820
Desertion is very strong, but it's a counter spell

>>43671390
I was actually trying to self reference, but I was 4 off. Far from perfect, but approaching it. I just hate Izzet players so much. as far as color identities go, their perception of how fun their decks are to play against are by far the most different from how actually fun their decks are to play against.

Nobody likes masturbatory 10 minute turns full of copy effects. It isn't quirky, it isn't unique, and it isn't fun. Izzet decks are half the reason I play stax.

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>start playing EDH with a cutthroat Sharuum deck against premades and just thrown together decks my friends made
>realize i'm That Guy and tone the power level of my decks way down
>they build powerful RUG decks and focus fire me out first

I'm buying Armageddon bros.

>>43671574
I started playing with an Oloro super friends deck that punished my opponents so hard while barely even affecting me that nobody wanted to play me anymore because they didn't have any fun. Was it very strong? Yes, but that's not the spirit of commander. Play a deck that people have fun playing against, not some combo solitaire deck that everybody else just groans at when playing. You'll end up having more fun too

>>43668613

Just start off with a cheap base and make it better as time goes on. Most of my decks are probably around 200 to 300 bucks but I built a lot of them over time.

>>43671572

wizards cast spells anon

izzet is the only deck that casts spells

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Worth it in mono-red artifacts?

>>43671803
Every deck casts spells. Izzet are the only colors that seem built around masturbatory ten minute turns that ultimately fizzle out at the end.

Izzet somehow perfectly encapsulates both premature ejaculation and endurance masturbation sessions.

>>43668613
>>43671771
Adding to this, the preconstructed decks have a pretty decent mana base already, and usually have a few staples in their colors. If you're playing green, though, every 'staple' has a cheaper version that is still good. Oracle of Mul Daya has Courser of Kruphix/Dictate of Karametra, Craterhoof has that new Goat, Krosan Grip has Beast Within/Acidic Slime, Eternal Witness has the new snake in the Meren deck, etc

>>43671809
as long as you remember to only equip your commander with it

>>43671870
>8/7 vigilant trampler
Yeah that's the plan

>>43671845

I want to play a wizard, anon. I want to defeat my enemies in explosions of fire and lightning, not by summoning some big dumb animal to kill them for me. Izzet is the guild of big dumb fire and lightning spells. Quit being so butthurt.

>>43671852

Yeah, the precons are pretty good. What colors do you want to run anon?

I have kaalia, avacyn and griselbrand. How can i build a budget deck with those?

>>43671091
I actually run an artifact focused scarecrow deck that runs quite well with zero changelings.

>>43672094
Put Griselbrand down and never look at him, since he's banned according to Sheldon.

Then get a bunch of the ~$2 demons and angels that are decent, Angel of Salvation, Admonition Angel, etc etc.

Get mana rocks and swifties (and greaves if you wanna pay a bit more), and just try to hook Kaalia to it and crash in for the win.

Bonus points to: Aurelia and Scourge of the Throne for making you attack multiple times, which triggers Kaalia multiple times.

PS: Expect to get hated on because people don't like Kaalia.

>>43672137
Is the new rw deck good for this? I don't have money for the original kaalia one

>>43672192
I would probably avoid the new RW deck. I bought it on a whim, the only thing of even slight value there is Anya and the Blade of Selves.

Picking up singles is probably your best bet, in that case.

>>43671906
You can do that with every color combination anon. The difference between my Mono Black spellslinger deck and your ADHD izzet deck is that my mono black deck wins consistently, and doesn't take 10 minutes to go off.

>>43671891
Akroma?

>>43671809
You can also run Karn to "unequip" at instant speed. Just make it into a creature and it falls off. If an opponent gains control of it somehow you can also make it into a creature and Homeward Path it back to you.

I might just start playing this in Karn.

>>43671852
Beast Within is more expensive than Krosan Grip

>>43668541
Not really, jhoira is not so good at spellslinging, and even more so without any kind of time counter manipulation.

I havent found a better place for the new drana than just as a part of the 99 in vampire decks

Any commander centered on artifacts has the potential to be no fun

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What are some creatures you wish were legendary?

I'm sad I can't slap Konda's Banner on this dude.

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So do you guys being out your edh decks? What kind of cool, totally unnecessary, cards have you added to your decks? Do you have cool lands?

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Anybody been working on decklists for meren?
Been trying all day, it's hard to get a nice balance between finishers worth reviving, token producers, sac outlets and tutor/grave tutor effects.

Would be nice to see other peoples lusts for idea's.

>>43672379
>>43671845
>10 minutes to go off
Have you even seen a selvala deck "going off"? How about a momir vig deck? or just UGx in general? Artifact players with 101 untapping shenanigans? Its not exclusive to izzet, and its not inseparable from izzet. Ever good RU player should
1. Know their deck inside and out. Every card, and every situation they want a given card in. Fireminds foresight shouldn't take more then 30 seconds.
2. Draw cards quickly. Pretty simple mechanical things here. Just fine motor skills
3. Actually play impulsively.This is why I like arjun, you don't need to plan out some ten minute combo, just cast what seems good at the time, skip over a wincon if you think its too risky/you want the game to keep going for shits and giggles etc.
4. Win efficiently. There is a very good reason I am not running sphinxes tutelage, archmage ascention, or tunnel vision, or very many copy effects. Winning with lab maniac/archive will never take ten minutes unless people want to counterspell war with you (which actually makes the game very interesting).

>>43673832

>other people's lusts

Oh jesus, I don't want to see that. I meant LISTS

How to build Meren? Pure reanimator seems weird. I kinda think BG goodstuff might work well.

>>43673656
that crappy modern art looks awful in the classy old frame

>>43673919
Thanks for sharing

>>43673949
you're more than welcome

>>43673832
I've been tinkering around with Meren as well and its pretty difficult, a couple of good thinga ive found have been making a lot of ghouls with Gisa, reanimating whatever you sac'd, and then pathbreaker ibex/craterhoof for the kill.

>>43673656
I put illuminate in mizzix.
correction, I put in a FOIL illuminate

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>>43673973
>tfw i like that art

>>43673656
That art looks terrible in that awful shitty frame.

>>43674049
I had a similar idea in BG tokens. Not sure how well it would work.

>>43674073
>>43673919
Thanks for being shitty guys.

>>43674088
Yea I had that thought as well, ive been running it as a early sac ramp into self mill reanimation and that works pretty nicely.

Repostan my Meren list. Need ideas for cheap cards to go in. On the list are:

Viscera Seer
Catacomb Sifter

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meren-rock-edh/

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How would Dragonlord Ojutai be as the commander for a permission-based control deck? I've never made a control deck so I want that to be my next deck after Meren, and I already have a lot of the WU control staples.

I was also looking at Grand Arbiter Augustin IV (I'm going for permission over stax but this would give me a nice little Ravnica theme instead of the Tarkir one) or Damia (would help with keeping my hand full).

Oloro and Derevi are absolutely not options. I don't like Derevi for personal reasons, and I hate Oloro and anyone who plays that boring shitshow of a commander with a passion. The commander should be something you actually cast and build the deck around, not something that just sits in the command zone all day.

With that in mind, would Ojutai be good? I'm thinking I would use him as a finisher for the deck as well as a way to maintain card advantage with a hexproof commander.

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Hey guys so I'm trying to build a Vela deck. I've got most of the bases covered with these 2 decks as a starting point but im trying to do a mesh between these two.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vela-the-night-clad-clan/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/vela-slips-through/

While Im loading the deck with alot of counterspells, I was wondering, does anyone know of any good black nukes/sorcerys that would work well? I'm thinking of throwing in the Ordeals of Erebos/Thassa for the unblockable ramp, and this foil Palace Siege for creature return/life siphon. Also any monoblack creatures are good, ive gotten myself covered with duals between Alara/Planeschase/Dimir/Shadowmoor

>>43674336
Warden of the first tree and raksha deathdealer would be nice additions. Check out the Abzan/Sultai cards for certain cross combos that would work nice. Kin tree invocation too

>>43674502
Warden isn't legal in Meren and Deathdealer isn't all that good.

>>43674702
he asked for ideas so i gave him a few

>>43674816
And your input is appreciated, they're just...not very good. Sorry. Thanks anyway.

>>43674380

Has anybody else noticed that Vela's boobs sag awfully low on her chest

Like look at that face to nipple distance holy shit

She should probably think about wearing a bra

>>43674934
homegirl just got saggy tiddys, aint nothin wrong w that

>>43668568
I've run him for a while, and he's definitely fun. I'm not so sure about good--his ability is explosive but unreliable, since you're usually relying on mill and discard to fill everyone's graveyards with juicy spells. That being said, I've always enjoyed playing him, since that's part of the fun--since you generally can't control the exact contents of everyone's graveyards, every game with Wrexial plays out differently.

>>43670874
Reaper king as ally commander using changelings and xenograft

>>43668997
I totally agree. If you can get a turn five Prophet to stick, Overlord basically wins.

>>43668955
Harmonic is one of your key responses to a lot of things, though he'll eventually take your own stuff out. Shroud Sliver (Crystaline) is your key defense in the case Overlord gets taken. Cycle sliver is a redundancy in case Overlord gets Song of the Dryaded or you need a specific Sliver early. Ameboid Changling gives you your opponents commanders.

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How do I kill off any semblance of diplomacy in large multiplayer games? My Commander is Gisela and I like to be able to turn things sideways without the whole table forming an alliance. Pic related.

>>43676264
Diplomacy is a large part of the multiplayer format. If you don't like it, find a playgroup that shares your sentiment or play 1vs1.

>>43676466
But watching a bunch of brutal savages fight it out is nowhere near as fun as slowly turning a bunch of shrewd diplomats into brutal savages and then watching them claw each others throats. It's not the destination, anon. It's the journey.

So, I spoke to Sheldon at the GP, and he said there would be a banlist meeting soon, and that from the feeling of the general public, and of himself experiencing it at the GP, that he will put Prophet of Kruphix on the list to consider banning.
The rest of the RC will have to agree with him, but there is a large chance that Prophet will be banned at the next committee meeting, along with the mulligan rules.
(he watched several players pummel casual pods through abusing Partials)

>>43676556
>prophet banned

good. if primetime is banned, than prophet is beyond bannable.

>>43668541

Jhoira won't be good at all for the new precon. If you want to run Jhoira, suspend fatties and other big spells. If you're running the precon, I'd say stick with the face general.

>>43672379

>implying I can kill people with fire and lightning in mono black

I don't want to kill people with AIDS. I want to kill them with Fire and lightning. If I wanted to kill them with AIDS I would play Stax like you, fag.

>ten minutes to go off and doesn't win consistently

I win fairly consistently and do it with 4 spell casts. The fact that our games go long is more due to the way we play.

Any thoughts on some of the new cards? What's been good for you guys?

>>43676591
Prime Titan is completely different from PoK and gains you huge advantage just by hitting the field what the hell is wrong with you scrubs

>>43676816
I agree that it's different then primetime.

that, however, doesn't change the fact that Prophet is almost certainly getting banned at the OGW Banlist update.

>>43672094
Also get that demon from Dragon's Maze that puts a player's life to 1.

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>>43676687
getting a Meren list together but cuts have been tough and I don't often play grindy control decks so I'm still figuring it out as I go.

still 11 cuts to make and I'm probably not running some cards that I should, like more ways to hit nonpermanents

>>43677005
>>43676687
fuck I forgot to post a decklist I suck dicks

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meren-cairn-necromancer/?cat=cost

>>43668613
Take it slowly. I've been playing for 12 years, my decks are valued around $12k, my collection (I only collect precons) at around $5k and I've made more than $60k re-selling near-rotating standard decks, limited leftovers and prize support.

Magic is very expensive, it's also very rewarding. You just don't notice it at first because you're not spending $12k in 9 decks on a single go, you do it along the years.

Magic is also better at retaining value than other hobbies, traveling is an experience, not something you can actually own. Same for concerts, movies and booze. As for gaming, cars, etc. All of that shit has planned obsolescence built-into it, specially more modern ones. With magic your cards from 94 are still playable and still valuable.

>>43676925
Prophet has survived banlist update after banlist update. It is not going to ever get banned, because Sheldon is convinced it's a card that you can use responsibly. Despite the fact that nobody outside of Sheldon's gaming group uses it responsibly.

It's a supremely unfun card that is only saved by "dying to removal" any time it's brought up, despite the fact that "dies to removal" applies to half the banlist. Servant? Dies to removal. Roffellos? Dies to removal. Braids? Dies to removal. Panoptic Mirror? Dies to removal.

All of these cards are on the list because if they don't die to removal, they make for unfun games (supposedly, I think most of them are bullshit bans. #freebraids). If Prophet doesn't die to removal, he makes for incredibly unfun, one sided games.

Despite this blatant inconsistency, Prophet of Kruphix will never get the axe.

>>43677070
>Sheldon is convinced it's a card that you can use responsibly

In the same way it's possible to responsibly own a kilogram of ricin.

>>43677070
Sheldon was at the GP experiencing 'irresponsible' usage of Prophet.
Sheldon was at the GP experiencing 'irresponsible' usage of Partial Paris Mulligans.

These things will not survive the next banning, because Sheldon finally played games where Prophet didn't die to removal because of Force of Will back up on turn 3.

Now, I don't know for sure if it will get banned, because that's up to Sheldon and the rest of the rules committee when the time comes, but I would just suggest that everyone set up a configuration in their prophet decks that they can switch to when the prophet is banned.

>>43677165
Need some sources of players ramming Prophets, Sphinxes, and ghosts rowing small boats up his asshole.

>>43676687
Pathbreaker Fucking Ibex

Holy shit that card is crazy

>>43669653
9 fetchlands, 3 duals, 3 shocklands, 3 filterlands, cavern of souls.
Zurgo is already $600+ in debt and we haven't even started with spells.

>>43670789
Mizzix and Ezuri in Yasova or Meren and Ezuri in Tasigur would be much better ideas.
Daxos and Kalemne's triggers aren't quite friendly with the other commanders.

>>43677178
Row boat ghost aint too bad. Row boat ghost is just a win condition.

Prophet and Sphinx however, are 'if you don't kill me you lose, but you have to sit through the game anyways'.

>>43677165
Yeah, I'd like some sources on this.

Tell me somebody brought a stax deck to him.

>>43668911
Voltron's mana base is expensive and terrible.

>>43676687

The synergy of 2 EXP counter generals is insane. Sultai gets Ezuri and Melen, which means you can revive a small creature with melen and then get the trigger on ezuri because its a small creature

Also UWR lets you cast Kelemne, go into Niv Mizzet or Melek and then abuse their abilities with Mizzix's spell reduction

also Strionic Resonato is a powerhouse

>>43677320
Fuck off, Deadeye instantly makes the game revolve around him the same way Prophet and Sphinx do. If anything, Sphinx draws less attention than the others because he can sit there for a turn and just draw you half a good amount of cards before dying. Deadeye threatens to end the game with your next cast.

>2015
>people still whining about a 5 drop 2/3 with no ETB effect

>>43677399
Don't you have a D&D session to attend, Sheldon?

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>>43677399

You mean this?

>>43677399
Look, everyone with half a brain gets that Prophet dies to removal, and isn't a problem in competent metas.

None of what I just said describes the majority of EDH players/metas. EDH is largely for retards by retards, and Prophet is Toxic to retards. Ergo, ban Prophet.

>>43677456
Or you just run a few kill spell and call it a day. It's a format like any other, if your deck consistently loses to something you need to work on it

>>43677393
Deadeye instantly makes the game revolve around him in the sense that the game immediately ends if the player controlling deadeye has a brain.

Deadeye doesn't threaten to end the game, it just does, and there's nothing wrong with having an efficient, powerful win condition.

>>43677504
It's a problem since it's impossible to remove unless you have the right card at the right time

>>43677456
>>43677490
Even in competent Metas Prophet is usually the best card (period) in a UGx deck.

Momir and Zegana decks are built around getting prophet out fast and hard, and having enough protection to get through 2 or 3 kill spells. Turn two prophet with FoW back up is real, and it ends games.

Yes, it dies to removal, yes you should run removal, but that doesn't make prophet or dealing with it as simple as casting a spell.

>September 2012

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/commander/24889-Commander-Official-Banned-List-And-Format-Philosophy.html

"One of the concerns that we've had recently is the overrepresentation of heavy ramp strategies to the point where it makes up a large proportion of the aggregate decks out there. While we think ramp should be good—this is battlecruiser Magic after all—it's probably a little too prevalent and needs reining in a bit. With that in mind we're banning the most egregious offender Primeval Titan."

A 6 MANA CREATURE

WAS THE MOST POWERFUL RAMP SPELL IN EDH

>>43677545
You mean in response to the soulbond trigger? all of them. that you have a million times to respond to?

Tons of cards are hard to remove unless you have removal.

>>43674380

I remember running Puppeteer Clique to good effect, as well as a copy of every mono black ninja (including winners like Ink Eyes). If you're not running the demon ninja from plane chase you should definitely pick it up. I've won games on like turn 5-6 by hitting an opponent with him off of a Ninjitsu trigger and stealing a bomb.

>>43677490
>>43677490
See: >>43677070


Dies to removal will not be, and never has been, a valid argument, especially in the context of a format balanced around fun, not competition.

>>43677603

>WAS THE MOST POWERFUL RAMP SPELL IN EDH

Cheatable into play turn 1 and 2, has a 6/6 body, gets value with each attack declaration and can be blinked or recurred into abuse

It represents a whole 2 turns of advantage and land drops

>>43677635
No thats exaclty what i plan to do. Pretty much pull off a tormented soul/unblockable ninjutsu combo. My bigger issue is mana ramp, creature boosting, and field nuking. Im planning to load the deck up with cancel, dispel, dissolve and even got my hands on a Rishadan port for mana denial, but these are my main issues.

Drana and the Ordeals seem to be good for counter boosting but even then I wonder if it'll be enough?

>>43677743
Why would you want to focus on counters when your commander is more about bouncing and recurring your own creatures? Run bounce spells, they double up as creature protection, commander enablers, and tempo based removal.

>>43677816
By counters, I mean counters on cards, not counterspells.

>>43672137
I never understood what makes Griselbrand THAT bad in commander. Sure, you can draw a gigantic fuckload of cards with just him out, but there'S so much more busted stuff that actually does more than just "draw a lot" and is almost as consistent as getting to that mana count with mono-black.

>>43675286

"The best boobs are the ones you get to touch."

>>43677743

I typically focus on smaller creatures, I guess, so I don't worry too much about mana ramp (you're probably not going to find any outside of the Extort double swamp ghost, artifacts, and myriad landscapes anyways).

>>43677835

>Sure you can draw a gigantic fuckload of cards

that's entirely the problem. Have you seen what decks in Modern can do with him? Can you imagine that shit as a commander?

>>43677835
Pray tell, what effects in magic are more busted than "draw 28-42 cards"?

>>43676264
Insurrection, that'll teach those fucks for sitting on lethal and not swinging

>>43677865
Well, yes, I have seen that. There's still a pretty huge array of pretty consistent insta-wins or infinite loops in commander that you can get off faster than getting him out in mono-black.

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XMage update fucking when?
I need to playtest my shit before sinking any unnecessary money in it, dammit!

>>43677921
No, there really isn't. Black has some of the most efficient short term ramp, the most efficient tutors, and a fairly efficient storm based wincon enabled by grisel. The deck was a nightmare to play against.

>>43677957
What?

What's XMage?

>>43677987
>>43677987
Xmage is a rules enforced Magic The Gathering platform with full support for most major formats ...

>>43677921

As soon as griselbrand hits the table, you control the game, because even if they remove him asap, you can pay however much life you need until your hand and graveyard have whatever they need for you to win the game

The reason this is more powerful than an infinite combo is that the combo is fragile, if a piece or two gets countered or removed in response to combo triggers, you are no longer a threat. Whereas the griselbrand player has still almost certainly got the game in the bag, only some serious hand disruption can save you now

>>43677987
Free fan-created Java-based Magic program.
The gameplay is automated, similar to Magic Online, but you have (almost) every card available and a huge variety of formats.

Problem is that they are kind of slow with the Commander 2015 update and you can't proxy for it since it's, like I said, automated.

>>43676546
Not gonna lie, you're treading heavily on That Guy territory. At some point people just won't play with you or will all focus you, eliminate you, then move on with what they believe to be an actually fun game of Magic.

>>43678045
Encouraging interaction instead of the stale "I can't attack him or he'll think I'm mean and attack me" attitude most people have is not That Guy territory. It's cool guy territory.

>>43678011
>>43678043
Ah thanks.

>>43678081
Then again, forcing people to play the way you want them to play and cause the entire table to not play the way they'd prefer to is very deep into That Guy.

>>43678109
>wrongbadfun

>>43678134
>playing a slow and diplomatic game isn't fun for me so the others can't have fun with it either

>>43678109
Well edh has so much stupid shit now that you need to play like that so you dont lose the game instantly out of nowhere.

>>43677921
T1 Dark Ritual Buried Alive
T2 Exhume Grislebrand win

fuck you and the horse you rode in on
>huge array of pretty consistent insta-wins or infinite loops in commander that you can get off faster than getting him out in mono-black

>>43678160
They can, but they need to stop joining my games then. And I'd hardly call that slow and diplomatic. Standard EDH is building increasingly uninteractive towers of cards. It's not diplomatic, it's multiplayer solitaire.

And Sheldon himself has said he wants to see interactive games of EDH, not solitaire. So you are actually doing it wrong. (as much as I hate sheldon).

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ezuri-claw-of-phyrexia/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/-omnath-locus-of-rage-/

Still working on these two decks, if anyone's got any tips or suggestions.

>>43668613
Well both of these decks are nearly $1000 and I know my Omnath, Locus of Mana deck is at least $750, so yeah. It's a pretty expensive hobby but it doesn't seem that way for me since I draft constantly and just turn anything I win in those into money to fuel EDH decks on top of speccing on a few cards here and there.

>>43678230
Well, if they know you don't like it and they still keep on doing the same shit then just don't play with those anymore or tell them, before they join, that you don't want the game to be that type of direction.

And Sheldon saying what's right or wrong in a format that is almost entirely based on what your group plays and agrees on and that's actually advertised as being the one allowing the most individualism and creativity makes him sound pretty hipocritical, if you ask me, since their description implies that there is no right or wrong way to play it if the people you play it with are okay.

And before you assume I like playing uninteractive pillowfort bunker shit, I don't and actively try to kick people's faces in ASAP once it's clear they play something along those lines.

>>43678370
Wrong general, brah. Should probably go ask in one of the other Magic threads, since this one is the EDH one.

And the playability of those decks mostly depends on how serious/casual the people you'll be playing with are.

>>43678424
what do you play then?

>>43678424
Nah. If they see my general and want to switch decks, I'm fine with that so long as they're fine with me changing too.

That's all I can do.

>>43678457
Yeah, I just realized. I'd say semi-casual. One of my friend's brothers goes to tournaments pretty regularly so he's moderately decent at the game.

>>43678504
Currently I like playing a Wrexial "Gimme all your spells" group mill variant or, if I want to just go with big stuff to punch faces with, Mayael or Rosheen Meander.

>>43678208
>T1 Dark Ritual Entomb Exhume Grislebrand win

fix'd

>>43678504
I like to play Toshiro "Hatred is both how I win and an apt descriptor of my feelings for your deck" Umezawa.

>>43678536
I'd say you should technically be fine playing one of those casually with friends over a few beers. The decks should at least function and be easy enough to steer for a newcomer. Just don't expect to do too great against any advanced or meta-ish decks and make sure that this brother also doesn't go too hard on your ass when playing. I know a few guys that go to tourneys semi-regularly and they tend to not really hold back against beginners unless told so beforehand (though that might just be my group's autists/elitists).

>>43677710
If a creature crushing the game when cheated into play turn 1 is cause for banning, I assume you believe Jin-Gitaxias should be on the list? Probably just as powerful as Griselbrand on turns 1/2, if not more powerful because now no one is making land drops with any degree of consistency while you happily burn through your deck keeping your best 7 cards each time.

>>43678653
Guy saying Grisel isn't THAT bad here: The big difference is that Black can pull those cheats off far easier than blue, due to all their searchers.

Not to mention that the draws are what make Grisel strong, and Gitaxis' can'T hold a candle to them.

>>43678689
Hit Jinnie Git with spot removal and you're good for now, hit Gristlebrand with spot removal and they still are getting 21+ cards.

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>>43678617
>Toshiro "Hatred is both how I win and an apt descriptor of my feelings for your deck" Umezawa
He was my first attempt at mono black, and he was great fun in duel commander. I found him difficult to run in multiplayer games so I ended up switching.

My next choice was Kuon, Ogre Ascendant for a stax-y archetype, but I eventually settled on loli Lili.

>>43678689
I wasn't so much arguing against Griselbrand here as arguing against Prime Time being banned. There are much better legal creatures to cheat in turn 1, and Prime Time honestly doesn't do as much as the big 3 banworthy creatures. The main reason why Prime Time and Sylvan Primordial got banned is because Sol Ring ramps you into them really fast. Funny, Deadeye and Sphinx are really good when Sol Ring ramps you into them too. And ramp spells are really good when you can Sol Ring into them.

I'm seeing a pattern emerging here.

>>43678566
I play Wrexial LD

Guys, I want to be a backstabbing bitch.

What do I secretly put into my Grouphug Phelddagrif deck to kill people off, fast? I've been thinking "that anvil skipping discard step" + Jace's Archivist + "that artifact creature dealing damage on each discard" as a rather quick and unexpected kill-combo.

>>43678836
Hermit druid combo out of nowhere

>>43678868
>I cast Hermit Druid
>I'll counter it
>thanks for the free cards M80 :^)

>>43678779
He's been fine for me in multiplayer, but in four plus player games I tend to win with repay in kind more. Hatred is for dealing with players that have a faster combo win, or can control me in that situation.

>>43678836
Anvil of Bogardan + Jace's Archivist + Psychosis Crawler is what I was thinking of.

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I'm building the new Ezuri but I'm completely new to green in EDH. Is there anything I'm missing or need to work on?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ezuris-mass-compleation/

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>>43679207
Glad to see you included your copy of WIN CONDITION, friend.

>>43678836
Daniel?

>>43679207
>Glen Elendra Archmage
Insanely good, and Ezuri resets persist.
>Ponder/Brainstorm/Preordain/Serum Visions
Makes your deck more consistent.
>Tooth and Nail
9 mana win the game.
>Summoner's Pact/Chord of Calling/Green Sun's Zenith
What you need when you need it.
>Future Sight/Magus of the Future
Incredible card advantage sources. Easily the most underrated blue cards in EDH, especially considering they're at bulk rare status.
>Cyclonic Rift
Literally one of the best spells in the format.
>Dizzy Spell/Muddle the Mixture/Merchant Scroll/Mystical Tutor
I swear by these 4 cards in all blue decks I make.
>Trinket Mage/One artifact land/Sensei's Divining Top/Pithing Needle/Tezzeret the Seeker
I also swear by these. If nothing else, Trinket Mage just grabs Sol Ring, but he can also make you hit a land drop. Tezzeret should go without saying because god damn that utility son.
>Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
One of the best green creatures.
>Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time
You just put these in your deck. Like, just fucking DO IT.
>Oracle of Mul Daya
Another one of the best green creatures.
>Birds of Paradise/Wood Elves
More ramp.

If I kept going I'd end up telling you to use Zegana as your commander.

>>43679574
alright then. link the most perfect, consistent Zegana deck you can make/find. I'm curious

>>43678011
Does /edh/ use XMage a lot? I kinda like playing on Forge but the IA is just boring sometimes I want to play with real people sometimes but don't want to run into random spergs running Hermit Druid combo.

>>43679637
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-09-14-zegana-edh/

Here's what a friend uses. He's won 2 of the 3 EDH tournaments my LGS has run with this. He doesn't run all of the cards I've listed, but this list is some oppressive bullshit. There's a few French lists on MtGtop8 since even there, UG goodstuff makes a dent.

>>43679207
I'd throw in hardened scales just in case someone shits on your doubling season. Cheap, easy and something you could drop turn 1

>>43679851
And considerably worse than Doubling Season in basically every application of this deck.

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If I have Call of the Kindred out and I look at the top 5, but decide not to put a creature onto the field because theres not one there that shares a creature type, do I still have to put the 5 cards on the bottom of my library?

>>43679894
yeah its shittier, but its also cheaper, its intended as a quick ramp or a backup plan

>>43679895
Yes, assuming there's 5 cards there. If your library has less than 5 cards, you just do as many cards as you can. Like, the card says right there that if you choose to do the trigger, you must put those cards on the bottom.

>>43679918
Why run bad backup plans when you could just run another good card instead?

>>43679657
I play it.
It also gets mentioned here every now and then, so there must be a handful of people from here playing on it.

>>43679851
not only do i have a few ways to get it back from grave, but i also have primal vigor.
also that card doesnt even double +1/+1 counters. it just adds one. i'd rather just see a land card so i can cast my commander again

>>43679956
Its not a bad backup plan if it works. Ive gone up against some Izzet decks that start hitting you straight out the gate and something like HC is needed. And what good cards? He could pull out the shitty terramorphic expanse for it

>>43680048
He could pull out a lot of cards for the good cards I listed in >>43679574.

>>43679972
>>43679657
I don't know how to feel about it. Having a tabletop where you can do anything is pretty useful. Sure you get some (a lot) of people who don't know the rules (mouthbreathing retards that are just as often ignorant as they are liars) on cockatrice, but when it works out, having that tabletop is way more efficient than having a computer program walk you through each stage of each interaction.

>>43679851

Just get primal vigor m8.

>>43680113
Well, the main benefit I see in XMage is the ease of finding people to play with and not having to bother with people not knowing the basic rules and throwing a fit when you say they're wrong.

And it's not really "walking you through each stage" either, since you can easily skip most of the stuff if you got nothing to do.

>>43668613
All together I've spent well over $2000 on my Commander decks.

>>43668613
My completely trash Aurelia deck is like 400 bucks and I'm still missing like 200 bucks and god forbid I want to add Imperial Recruiter

And instead of printing good shit that can drop the shit's price, Wizard decides to print fucking Arbiter of Knollridge and Hostility

Fucking print Stoneforge Mystic you pieces of trash I hate you all

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>Wizards putting out tons of political cards
>still haven't topped the best one

>>43679972
Downloaded to see how it is, will fuck around and maybe play a game if I can.

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>>43680341
sorry guys, wrong picture, don't know what happened.

>>43680385
Brace for a few bugs, it's not entirely perfect. Most things work, though.

To my dismay, Wrexial's effect randomly works or doesn't, which is incredibly infuriating.

>>43680609
How do I build a Commander deck? The deck editor seems for normal formats only.

>>43680616
Put your commander in your sideboard and the 99 in your regular deck. Then choose Commander as your format when hosting/joining and select one of those decks.

>>43680426
That's because it's mass land destruction and mass land destruction, or just decent land destruction in general, is bad wrong fun in WotC's eyes now.

>>43680305
>Fucking print Stoneforge Mystic you pieces of trash I hate you all
It was 2x in a event deck, I doubt they will print it in a while. Crazy that it went up to 40$, dropped cause of the premade and now its back up there, and it only sees play in legacy.

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>>43680727
That's because SCG and TCGPlayer and all them are in league with Wizards on what gets reprinted. It's why the Reserved List still exists.

>>43680232
>not spending well over $2000 on your Commander deck
>singular

>>43680751
Half of it is that Wizards is just retarded when it comes to dealing with prices, and the other half is speculators causing price memory which keeps things expensive. Every time I go to my lgs they always have stacks of goyfs for trade but the price will never budge.

>>43680820
>>43680751
The problem is that people are absolutely retarded with this game and treat it as some sort of really, really shitty investment. Oh, nice, you bought 40 Tasigurs for 5 and sold them for 40 two years later, congratulations. You made 1600 bucks over two fucking years.

Seriously just get a job, go find an accountant and invest a little money. You'll make more money faster and won't come off as a fucking child.

>>43678836
If you play Hive Mind, pacts.

>>43680789
Honestly, I don't really know what else to do to the decks. Most of the expensive cards that are missing are just fetches and OG Duals. I mean the only deck that's missing any REALLy expensive components is Brago, and that's because I didn't want to shell out for Mindsculptor and Mana Crypt. I mean it's basically:
Jeskai Enchantment Pillow Fort (Still waiting on a solidly passive general for the deck, as well as some more good enchantments with relevant activated abilities, but it's about as good as I can make it without going total dickery lock-down)
Kaalia Dargins and Angles and No John You Are The Demons (Again, not a whole lot I can do to the deck, it's about as good as I can make it without doing a complete overhaul)
Brago Superfriends (Didn't want to shell out for a Mindsculptor or Mana Crypt)
Damia Apostles (Still a work in progress, not sure what to do with it, trying to stay away from "Monoblack with splash colors" that apostle decks tend to fall into)
Ashling the Cuban Missile Crisis (The only two things I can really change is to shell out for Snows, a Rimescale Dargin and a Gauntlet of Might. And considering the deck is just supposed to be a goofy multiplayer deck, I'm content with where it is)

So yeah, I've shelled out as much as I conceivably can.

Are fetches necessary in monocolored?

>>43680966
Eh? Depends on how much you want to thin out your draws. they do add a level of consistency that you don't normally find, but I mean that's only four cards. Honestly not worthy it in my opinion. Just lower your land count a bit and throw in some mana rocks.

>>43680966
No. They're not even that useful in two color decks since you can only get 1 dual (I guess 2 now, or soon).

>>43680902
Or do both and use your hobby to pay for itself while using your job to pay for things that actually matter.

>>43681016
You can grab OG duels, the laglands and shocks, thats pretty solid.

>>43681047
Yeah but that's 3 lands you can grab in two color versus up to 8 lands you can grab in tri color.

>>43680966
Outside of Titana and some mono white. No.

>>43681047
>laglands

I think you mean Tangolands.

>>43681095
Still deck thinning and getting both colors when you need it is important.

>>43681095
I think its still worth the investment, you thin 2 cards and fix mana
>>43681118
Did I stutter, it's laglands

>>43681047
In two color decks, you can only get the fetches and your respective BFZ/OTG land, half of which aren't even out yet.

>>43681118
>Deck thinning

An irrelevant argument unless you are recurring your fetches like 3-4 times.

>>43681118
Oh yeah, just saying, not nearly as important as it is in Tri color. I mean personally I've never had a game with a dual color deck with a properly balanced mana base where I've felt starved for a particular color.

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>>43681131
Nah nigga it's tangolands.

>>43681131
>Did I stutter, it's laglands

Sorry friend, you're wrong. Tango is the name.

>>43681139
>An irrelevant argument unless you are recurring your fetches like 3-4 times

Not really. Sure it's not a big deal, but in addition to fixing your mana it does thin some.

>>43681144
When you are playing some decks with few lands 30-36 getting the right colors is more important.

>>43681176
>>43681118
>>43681047
Battlelands.

>>43681234
This or pimplands or go home.

>>43681223
>>43681176
I'm going to call them laglands.
>>43681234
Now you're just a faggot

>>43681234
Garbagelands because they belong in the garbage can

>>43681234
you can fuck right off. battle lands doesn't even make sense.

>>43669205
$4.05 on Star of David games atm.

>>43668613
Last I checked, my Maelstrom Wanderer was in the $4200 range.
Never foil an EDH. Not even once.

>>43671574
I know that feel.
>be me
>Have a lgs with a super competitive edh group
>Move
>realize new group has been playing edh for a matter of months, and like half the group found MAGIC with Theros.
>Put away Maestrom Wanderer and Damia Artifact Combo, build UG Snakes.
>Have infinite fun casting Endless Swarm into a Hive Mind.

>>43681495
>>be me

you sure?

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>Working on a new G/R/U deck
>It's not meant to win, it's meant to make 4+ player games fun and political
>Running all sorts of swapping, control changing, polymorphing, spell doubling, redirecting cards
>Assault suit, crown of doom, various vows, various offerings

This is gonna be fun.

>>43673656
I have a deck that is 100% foiled for the cards that exist in foil.
The basics are foil full art ZENs at the moment, want to turn them into Judge lands. The duals are either signed, FBB, or both.
Expedition Shocks and Fetches.
Survival of the Fittest? Why pay $40 for a card, when the $300 foil exists? Everyone and their brother knows someone with a Sakashima, but not a signed chinese foil.
tl;dr I have gone the deepest on bling.

>>43676546
This is why my casual deck is Heartless Hidetsugu. Like everyone is diplomatic in the first few turns while they set up borad, until I flip the switch and everyone is suddenly down really low and taking damage every turn

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>Just finish my Bosh deck.
>Get into a six player game.
>Don't even get to really test my deck because the guy next to me keeps blowing my shit up.
>Game ends with Memnarch player comboing out.
>The guy's only reason for constantly destroying my shit was because "You were next to me."
>Mfw
There was a Mizzix, Titania, and Memnarch on the field doing a bunch of bullshit. I was fucking mana screwed already, but he felt it necessary to blow up my Sol ring.

>>43680959
Just buy walletsculptor, it's not going up or down now that Legacy is dead.

Then again, I'm the guy who buys Arsenal Sylvan Libraries.

>>43681820
>arsenal sylvan library
mah nigga

it's such a good printing compared to legends imo. really gives me that "mystical fuckin elf library" feel as opposed to legend's "glowing tree stump vagina"

>>43680966
Mono can run only 4 so thinning is useless and you're not getting color-screwed anyway.
Guilds can run 7, which is good but not absolutely necessary unless you're color greedy like Jarad or just want to be a spike.
Tri-color can run 9 and it's a really good idea because you're actually improoving your game that much by having a turn 1 fetchland, any fetchland.

>>43681234
Voyeurlands

>>43681880
Tango makes the most sense.

Takes two to tango.

>>43681880
I was partial of dubslands myself

>>43681602
Bro, that sounds nice.

But I gotta know, where can I get that picture without the caption?

>>43681901
Yeah and then a third steps in and steps all over their feet, it's a fucking stupid name

I like the other anon that called them Garbagelands because they are trash

>>43681602
Color me interested. Who's the commander?

>>43681937
You're a retard.

>>43681933
Spell contortion

>>43681933
Spell contortion

What kind of answers does a mono-green Saproling deck against Elesh Norn? Really having trouble coming up with something other than Scour from Existence and that bitch completely prevents token stuff from playing the game.

>>43681780
Retard knew he wasn't winning and was just trying not to "lose".
There's those faggots a plenty. FNM we played 4-man tables with the new precons and Meren won my table because the faggot with a 10/10 Anya enchanted with my Vow of Malice wouldn't attack Meren despite him having 5 life, no fliers and a board ready to explode because "If I beat him you will just kill me". I had two spirit tokens, Teysa and lands in play, no hand.

Cue 19/19 Overwhelming Stampede for 8 creatures.

>>43681977
Beast Within, Song of the Dryad, Desert Twister if you're really reaching, Duplicate, Spine of Ish Sah, Karn Walker, Ugin Walker.

>>43681901
I liked Crowdlands
>doesn't require some long-ass explanation
>makes more sense than Tangolands
>rolls off the tongue nicely

They're battlelands.

>>43682018
>>43682011
>>43681937
>>43681901
>>43681880
C.u.c.k.o.l.d. Lands

>>43682008
Thanks mate, will try some of those out.

>>43681780
I fucking hate that shit. Last time I played I was running Melek next to a BUG Sidisi self-mill token army and he kept hammering me just because. Turns out, he didn't have his contacts in and my board was the only one he could read. Asshole.

>>43681922
CHECKEM
twodubs confirmed.

>>43682037
Enough of this garbage forced meme

>>43682011

In my playgroup we call them "bofa lands" because they come in untapped if I got "bofa deez"

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>>43682011
>makes more sense then takes two to tango
>Takes two too tango requires a long ass explanation
>Tangolands doesn't roll off the tongue.

>>43682018
>>43682011
>>43681922
>>43681880
>>43681901
>>43682051

>>43681963
>>43681967

Thanks guys! Means a lot.

>>43682083

Motherfucker it is a BOUNCE HOUSE

Fucking retard wrote that comic

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>>43682058
>Implying tangolands isnt a forced leddit meme

>>43682150
>>43682083
It's a bouncecastle

>>43682018
>>43682037
>>43682051
>>43682070
>>43682083
>>43682156
I vote we just force a nonsensical offensive name just to piss people off
Like "Niggerlands" or "Faglands"

>>43682083
>balloon jump
>moonwalk
>bouncewalk
I am disgusted right now.

>>43682184
>>43682156
>>43682083
>>43682070
>>43682051
>>43682037
>>43682018
I say we should call them "Tiddylands".

2 are out, it comes in standing.

>>43682206
Can someone actually post them all together in one image?

>>43682248
What, the lands in question?

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>Normally play with mates in a nice basement
>mates are busy this week so I wander to the local gaming store for their EDH night
>no one plays spot removal
>no one plays cheap counter spells
>no one plays pyroclasm effects
>everyone just ramps into huge dank memes and whoever gets there first wins
>win every game with silly Vela deck because I actually do things before turn 6
>massive neckbeard spergs out when I Snuff Out his Rafiq and rants for 5 minutes about how unfun cards like that are
>mfw

>>43682278
>Not playing spot removal
Why are some edh players so fucking terrible. Someone has to realize they're retarded right?

>>43682278
You know, people bitching about one player not running the same decktype as everyone else in the shop and whining how unfun they are deserve to be smacked. Trying to tell you to play something else just because it's not the usual shit that's is literally trying to take people's fun away.

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>>43682328

It's because people goldfish non stop, cut all the cards that don't help them "win" faster, and then go full autistic ragemode when they play against real people who don't just let them ramp into some Tooth and Nail combo unmolested.

>>43681223
People argue about the usefulness of off-colour fetches in modern and the general consensus is that x4 fetches in a 60 card deck has such a small effect on thinning that it may as well be non-existent.

People who think that fetches are useful because of deck thinning are idiots. If you run off colour fetches it's because you are running landfall effects, land recursion (ie: life from the loam, crucible etc...), have need of shuffle effects (brainstorm) or some other esoteric niche usage (panglacial wurm???). Anyone running off colour fetches in their EDH decks for any other reason is a tryhard faggot who doesn't actually understand probability.

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>>43673656
I use all Euro basics.

>>43681645
>foil ZEN
>not Unhinged
>Hoping to upgrade to judge lands
>not Guru
I mean, I guess you can call that 'bling' if you really wanted to.

>>43682206
They should be called Arby Lands.
Because they're bad lands.

>>43682328
'it's a casual format'

I see retards even play standard without a single spot removal spell and folds over backwards to a single Seeker of the Way, it's amazing.

>>43682429
>landfall effects, land recursion (ie: life from the loam, crucible etc...), have need of shuffle effects (brainstorm) or some other esoteric niche usage (panglacial wurm
Green gets some pretty neat shit sometimes.

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>>43682442

>eurolands
>no mosques

>>43682371
You're complaining about people not liking to play against "no attack until turn 7" decks that LITERALLY do not interact with you at all?

/tg/ is always fucking retarded for the sake of fun.

The only reason these people don't complain about playing against ramp2memes decks is because they want to play those decks themselves. It's fucking boring.

>>43677052
This guy gets it I realize this already and I've barely been playing for over a year but that's because I got a bunch of jaces when they were ten bucks and from packs and those are the reason I was finally able to build my gaming pic with what I wanted (plus my stepdad played from alpha to future sight and just gave me his collection but I haven't sold anything there yet)

>>43682477
>Sometimes

Green is rapidly approaching the best color of Magic from Modern and up because of all the 'neat things' they keep giving it.

>>43682463
The 'casual' excuse isn't even relevant, considering nearly every commander without inherent removal has some kind of on-theme-ish removal available. Not to mention that
spot removal is even in precon decks.

>>43682490
u wot m8
You talking about Mirage basics?

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>>43682568
,

>>43682587
Huh.
Well, that was sweet of her.

>>43682522
What the hell are you on about? I was complaining about the fat fuck throwing a fit because someone dared to not play the same shit everyone else in the shop plays, not about the guy playing a deck containing removal.

>>43682328
The problem with running spot removal in EDH is that it's bad in terms of value. You are essentially setting yourself and the other player behind by one card, while the rest of the players not involved in the interaction are de facto ahead.

To make spot removal in EDH good, you have to be using cards like Shriekmaw, Nekrataal, or Attrition that continue to have value after playing them. Things like Terminate and Dreadbore, while not bad, are also poor in terms of value.

>>43682689

In a world with no must answer cards this might be true.

So I just moved and after talking to a guy at a FNM I found out that the local EDH group apparently hates people using mana rocks, especially Sol Ring and only tolerates it if you're a noob.

Should I pretend I'm new in order to use it or oblige their shitty house rull immediately?

>All these weird complaints like spot removal

The only things I do not tolerate at a table are combo players who explicitly try their best to go infinite the second things seem slightly off, or Prophet of Kruphix/Seedborn Muse. If I see either of those, I focus that player down from the get-go and kill them. Mostly because they are the largest threat due to nobody else running the nonsense that follows, and partially because I just hate seeing that shit in a game to begin with.

Who the fuck doesn't run tons of spot removal to deal with shit like that?

>>43682689
>play blue Myr shenanigans
>enemy would play Elesh
>counter her
>get to keep board, he loses her and the others don't care either way because big green stuff

Don't really see where anyone other than the guy hit gets a major setback or advantage

>>43682712
Some decks literally can't work without them. Artifacts are a part of the game for a reason.
Fuck their rules. Fuck anyone who tries to restrict how someone else plays. I don't think any card or playstyle should be outright banned.

>>43682712
sol ring is actually bullshit powerful, but i don't see the problem with thingls like guild signets, cluestones, mind stone, chromatic lantern.

>>43682756
If I got the guy correctly he was mostly talking about Mana Vault and Sol Ring in stuff that doesn't need it because they all don't like people going into T1 Sol + Vault into T2 7-drop.

I mean, I can somewhat understand what they mean, but unless the person is playing 80% of his deck of that stuff to get a single combo off by turn 3 and win I really don't see what's so terrible about it. They seem to forget that playing archenemy on the guy is also always an option if things go haywire.

How well do you think Meren would be as a BG mana dork/druid swarm deck? There are plenty of combos for infinite mana, and she provides a steady way to bring them back over time. The lack of Haste outside of Crossroads and Memorial have me concerned as opposed to Jund. I'm trying to find something that really fits.

>>43682741
Not every deck is a control deck. For decks that aren't control decks, removal needs to provide value after being cast. That's why I mentioned cards like Shriekmaw and Nekrataal - they have value after their first use.

>>43682747
You and the Elesh player are down a card. The others are not. Is the concept of card advantage completely alien to you? It's not that you shouldn't have countered Elesh Norn, but think about the true outcome of the scenario you just mentioned - the players who were not involved in the interaction are now ahead by a card because you and the Elesh player both just spent a card.
Ultimately, when you countered Elesh Norn, you made the right move, because had she resolved her controller would have obtained an absurd amount of value. However, the ultimate outcome of the situation is that you spent a card and the Elesh player spent a card and no one else did.

>>43682328
I once played a table where I won by decking all players without running any mill spell.
It was just Drana, Cabal Coffers, Thespian Stage, Vesuva, a bunch of Swamps and three retards who couldn't beat me because they didn't run a single removal in their decks.

>>43681645
Do you have a picture?
How much is the deck worth in total?

>>43682846
Of course card advantage is a thing I know. The thing is that, had I not run removal in that situation, I would've been straight-up done for.
Commander has such a huge card pool that there's counters to almost any kind of deck that need to be taken care of immediately if they appear and running enough removal to have a good chance of having it ready when your deck's counter would come out (given that it's a thing you can take care of with your colors) is absolutely necessary and gives that required removal an even higher importance and value (since it often directly prevents you from losing) than in other formats.

>>43682689
Yes, but if I'm either down a card or lose the game, I'll take the lost card. In a 4 person game, my two opponents being up 2 cards selected randomly from their 99 card decks isnt that big of a deal, StPing a consecrated sphinx or Pathing a blightsteel is a justified use of resources, and your deck should have enough draw to make loosing one card insignificant in the course of a 10-20+ turn game.

>>43682822
I don't play that way, so please forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't that not only paint a huge target on yourself but also over extend yourself?
One removal or counter spell and you're doing meh and have to fix mana vault while everyone else still has cards and permanents ready to go.
It's still an amazing play, but with 3 other players capable of answering it, with access to the same or similar resources..
I love sol ring. I know people call for it to be banned, but literally anyone can use it, and it makes weak decks/colors better and gives diminishing returns to decks that are already pimped out.

>>43682587
And now they'll stone her for sleeping with a man she's not married to.

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All this talk of spot removal has me thinking - is there a good commander in EDH for a permission deck? I know Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is great for tax-based decks, but I haven't really heard people talking about how to do a permission-control deck in EDH.

>>43683005
>>>/pol/

>>43675522
>not using conspiracy

>>43682712
Who does EDH attract the worst kind of idiots?

>>43682977
Well, yeah, it is a huge target (hence the archenemy option) but if you actually do run something that turbo-cancer rampy, your shit either has inherent counter protection or you can just afford risking it. Not to mention, there's not always a blue player and a lot of creature counterd are more than 2 mana and would also lock them out of turn 2

>>43683051
Worst part is that the guy I talked to about it loves U/G counter stuff and also has a fully fletched Sliver EDH tribal. I don't even understand why he would be pissy about fucking Sol Ring when almost all his stuff can take care of whatever it shits out or just runs a deck full of mana generators himself.

>>43682977
> but literally anyone can use it
Not please stop, this is arguably the worst thing about it. Mathematically speaking a t1 sol ring will happen in around 40-50% of games, and will almost always result in a huge advantage, no matter what deck you're running.

>>43683008
UWx is a really capable of permission with Esper arguably the best, but Bant has UG bullshitery. Hanna is my permission deck, and it is capable of holding down against Animar and Wanderer at the same time. Note that I didn't say pillowfort. It's a proper control deck.

why are all the esper commanders no fun allowed tier?

>>43683175
>blue's counter and draw shit
>black's potent creature removal and discard crap
>white's enchantment hate and exile elements
>also slap artifacts and life gain into the color pie
Gee I wonder why that wedge is considered annoying.

>>43683156
Would Dragonlord Ojutai be a good pick to helm the deck? I know most people would say GAAIV, but he seems to fit more with a tax-based playstyle.

Ojutai gives me a powerful hexproof evasive finisher that also gives card advantage. Is that what I want? I hate to ask a question where the answer should be obvious, but I've never played a control deck myself which is why I'm asking.

Also, how many counterspells should I run?

>>43683233
>Esper
>wedge

>>43683175
Sidri can be built to be a very fun with many little combos that are as effective but not as opressive as Sharrum's shit.