Exalted General /exg/ Lying Liars Still Lying Edition

>>43668063
Last time, people were attempting to defend shitty justifications.

What shitty justifications used for 3e do you defend, anons?

I cry when the Scion 2 rules will be better than Exalted 3.

>>43668070
I'm okay with the current chargen system.
Craft is good
Craft is life
Craft knows whose jokes are funny and when to laugh

>>43668236
Craft is crap.

>>43668070
Removing step-by-step resolution in favor of just declaring activations for both opponents before an attack in an unspecified order simplifies the system and makes it more reliant on narrativism vs gamism and you're a rollplayer if you want more rigor.

>>43668537
Seriously, not having a strict order for activations makes the current system literally unplayable.

>>43668546
Not really? Attacker declares, defender declares, and off we go!

>>43668560
That's a houserule.
The factthat the issue is easily ruled away doesn't mean there' not an issue with RAW.

>>43668546
>literally unplayable
If you can only play by-the-book then maybe. Although it would be really nice if they clarified this.

>>43668745
With the amount of time they dedicated to this, with the money it costs and with all the bragging they did and are still doing about it I expect to play-by-the-book and for it to be fucking perfect.
I can get some werid Charms interactions slipping through but this is missing a critical component of the engine. This should not have slipped.

>>43668785
I'll agree that's an oversight, probably stemming from the devs making assumptions and forgetting to share them with their customers. They tested the system so there has to be a method they used. But I guess that's why they are still homebrewers and not professional game designers at heart.

Did they do anything about the art?

>>43669081
They are doing something, yes. Exactly what, I'm confused about.

>>43669081
They sent some of the artwork for replacement or adjustment by their respective authors. Apparently some of those weren't even finished? Dunno, I wouldn't expect too much but hopefully they will get rid of the worst offenders.

>>43669141
>Apparently some of those weren't even finished?
That picture of two dudes dancing in the rain and with weapons come to mind. They didn't have hands or feet and the photoshop effects were incredibly obvious.

>>43669174
There were multiple pictures I saw where the guy didn't even fully get rid of the fucking sketchlines under his paint.

>>43669174
That was a dude and old lady.

>>43668232
>I cry when the Scion 2 rules will be better than Exalted 3.
I'd be extremely happy if that was the case. I'm pretty satisfied with the Ex3 system, and I don't see why Scion 2E being even better would be a bad thing.

>>43669740
I heard Scion 2e was dropping the Storyteller system, is that true?

>>43669751
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is. Apparently the new system will still use dicepools consisting of d10s and some other features familiar to White Wolf fans, but it won't be a new iteration of Storyteller.

>>43669760
Sweet, I like dicepool systems.
Maybe they'll be similar enough that we can steal some mechanics wholesale from one to the other and vice versa.

>>43669774
Yeah, that's kind of what I'm hoping for as well.

>>43669760
Ripping off DtD?
Wow, way to go LawfulNics

>>43669582

if the picture was related to the story of a dragon-blood and a solar, then the old lady sure didn't look like a senior dragon-blood.

>>43668070
>still being this butthurt

the fuck is your problem, man?

>>43670097
idk, she looked pretty old.

>>43669751
More or less. OPP actually owns the rights to Scion, so it's getting a new system, whereas WoD and Exalted will always be using "Heavily Modified Storyteller"

>>43668703
Whatever you say, spergy.

>>43670877
Damn it, I was hoping this thread would fall off Page 10 and we could make a new one instead of the same-faggot front-loading it with his bitching.

Can you guys help me out?

I'm building a Changing Moon Archer, and I'm not very good at building Lunars. The concept is that she's kind of a charming rogue.

I got the OK to use the Crimson Bow. How should I build this Lunar? 2.5 building rules and 35 xp on top.

>>43670911
I wish I knew, at this point I'd rather play Lunars homebrewed for 3E than go back to 2.5

>>43669751
>>43669760
>>43669774

Here's what the Scion 2e system (StoryPath) will look like: http://theonyxpath.com/codename-sardonyx-teaser-the-first/

http://theonyxpath.com/codename-sardonyx-teaser-the-second/

http://theonyxpath.com/codename-sardonyx-schemas-and-scales/

It looks like it wouldn't be hard to do an Exalted hack with the full rules.

Running a 3E game this Friday, set along the Dreaming Sea. Any advice?

/EXG/: THERMONUCLEAR BUTTHURT EDITION

>>43668546
>literally unplayable
>LITERALLY

L I T E R A L L Y

funny shit, this

>>43671061
I love the post by >>43668070 because he couldn't actually post an argument in the last thread, and decided to get really passive aggressive in this one.

>>43671044
Don't go anywhere remotely close to that island full of mutants and super-perfect Sorcerers unless you have most of the E1 Integrity charms.

Wait, you're running it.

Start on the island of super-perfect Sorcerers and mutants.

Alternatively, the City Trapped in Shadow is pretty cool.

>>43671094
>Start on the island of super-perfect Sorcerers and mutants.

What is the reason why?

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>>43671109
Curses. All the magic curses.

>>43671109
Shit be wack, pretty much. There's credible threats to a starting Solar in the form of all the crazy superhumans at the summit, there's STALKER-like environmental hazards all over the place, most of the serf population are incredibly mutated and half of those are completely insane.

It's also teetering on the edge of complete social collapse, so there's an opportunity for the Circle to take power there. Just, watch out for those anomalies, if you don't want mutations out the wazoo.

>>43671154
interesting...

Anyone know where to find the shortened Charm text? I did see it a while back but now I can't remember were and obviously I'm far too retarded to have bothered to save it.

Can anyone give me a run down on the functions and effectiveness of the social abilities; Presence, Performance, Socialize, Integrity, and any others that I might have missed.

>>43671330
Presence: Single target social influence, but usable in almost any situation.

Performance: Multi-target social influence, but more applicable to formal situations or speeches.

Socialize: Keeps your own intimacies hidden, and makes it easier to find out other people's intimacies. Both are very important to get ahead socially.

Integrity: A vital component of Resolve, which determines your character's ability to resist being influenced.

>>43671315
Check the homebrew folder.

>>43671427

Is Presence more important than Socialize or vice versa? What are the must buy charms of each tree? Also, I forgot to ask about Linguistics, what's that like?

>>43671464
That's only a handful of Charms.

>>43671507
>Is Presence more important than Socialize or vice versa?
It doesn't really work that way. Presence and Socialize do their jobs through totally different approaches; it's like trying to say whether Thrown is more important than Brawl.

>What are the must buy charms of each tree?
Harmonious Presence Meditation is a good buy for most anybody. Socialize has some good entry-level Charms iirc.

>Also, I forgot to ask about Linguistics, what's that like?
Twists people around. Linguistics will mess a guy up.

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Can you guys help me with an artifact?

Long-story short, I'm trying to figure out how an artifact's evocations are going to work in terms of damage. It's point is to peg an enemy/multiple enemies with it gaining stacks before exploding these stacks for bonus damage on a decisive.

It's a Thrown weapon, and the stacking part is it's attunement passive ability.

Kinda like pic related, except with flowers.

>>43671518
Yes, because it's not done. You're being impatient.

I had an idea for a Wyld Behemoth, can someone tell me if this sort of thing can be a Behemoth?

Basically, its main feature is that wherever it goes its steps leave behind a field of beautiful, scintillating flowers that spread incredibly rapidly at first, quickly covering several rangebands in a few turns before slowing down to the growth of 'normal' super-agressive plants.

Their main feature is that their petals (as well as the behemoth's skin) are covered by a sweet-smelling substance that acts like a drug, overloading everyone that touches it with images of the infinite possibilities of the Wyld. Affected people just lay down where they stand smiling dopey, touching more flowers getting more and more dosages until they die of thirst.

>>43671745
I like it.

>>43671544
>artifact's evocations
*evocation

>>43671585
I could have sworn someone else had finished it, though.

>>43671745
Sure, it's nice, but what's kept its flowers to spreading all over Creation?

>>43671745
Not bad.

You can also go 'Greener than you think' all the way and make those flowers incredibly, supernaturally difficult to destroy and quickly spreading. The Green Armageddon is coming.

>>43671786
ah, I should have mention, the further 'removed' a flower from it the less fertile it is. The originals can spread in combat-relevant time but after a few dozen generations they eventually become almost/completely sterile.

>>43671802
well, not green exactly. They're supposed to be all the colors of the rainbow.

>>43671814
I mean it'd be funny if the group of Exalts tasked with bringing it down were able to get a look at the things face, if it has one, and discover it was baked out of it's fucking mind.

>>43671814
>The originals can spread in combat-relevant time but after a few dozen generations they eventually become almost/completely sterile.

I would argue that this is an unnecessary limitation. A Behemoth should be a very large class menace. There is nothing larger class than a multicolored tide of flowers eating all other plant life, animal life, and spreading like a monstrous sea of destruction.

>>43671836
Not everything should be apocalyptic though.

>>43671836
Behemoths are local apocalypses, not global ones.

>>43671836
And making everything that survives high as a kite.

>>43671544
Evocations of [Artifact Name]
A Solar or [Other Losers] attuned to [Artifact Name] gains a power to near death to those it hits. Every time this weapon hits a withering attack on someone, the user gains one less initiative, but instead a flower grows on that enemy. The number of flowers applies differing effects: [A. N.: Change detonate to whatever you want] them, destroying them, but converting one decisive damage die to a success for each flower. Plucking a single flower from someone is a simple action that anyone in close range to (or the target themself) can take, though it may require a brawl gambit if they don't want the flowers removed because, I dunno, it compliments their natural style or something.

It's not my best work, but you're the kind of losers who plays League, so it's good enough for you. :^)

>>43671544
>EVOCATIONS
>A Solar or [Others] who attunes to [artifact] gains an additional benefit to all of their Withering attacks. As long as an attack hits, a flower blooms from them opposite the spot struck by [artifact]. For each flower already on a target when they are hit, the wielder of [artifact] gains +1 to their Withering damage.

>Withering Blossom Malevolence
>Cost: 5m, 5i; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Simple;
>Keywords: Perilous
>Duration: Instant
>Prequisites: None
>Wrapping the essence lines connecting the flowers made by [artifact] around their fingers, [Wielder] yanks them towards themselves. The flowers respond in kind by quickly withering into a spine of solid essence, then shooting through the target they're attached to and returning to [Wielder].
>Activating this Evocation requires that there is at least one of [artifact]'s flowers within Long range. On activation, the flowers are consumed, each dealing (Essence) Lethal damage to the target they're attached to, before Soak.

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>>43671897
Gave me a laugh, and a grounding point.
I thank you.

>>43672106
>lethal damage
>soak
Anon, I recommend you reread the combat chapter befory trying to write combat charms

>>43671835
>>43671836
great, now all I need is a physical form for the Behemoth and a way of mechanically modelling the poison.
taking bashing damage in crash sounds kind of not like it, IMO. I've been thinking about draining wp in crash or maybe requiring willpower rolls in crash to not just lie down and touch more flowers.

I just had a horrible idea for a Lunar MA
>Dolphin Polishing Technique.
Basically lets you steal another Lunars Totems for a limited amount of time.

>>43672167
Right, shit, I forgot Soak doesn't matter for Decisive damage in 3e.

So, ignore the "before Soak" part of the evocation. Problem solved.

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>>43672250

>>43672250

That's not how either of those things work.

>>43672267
It was meant to be a horrible, horrible joke about Dolphin Rape. It could have been worse, i could have talked about Ducks

>>43672285
Well, I don't really know where I was going with it myself.

What exactly is 3e's First Age supposed to be? What's the point of having it when it's going to be kept "mysterious" and "mystic" (fuck that bullshit excuse so hard) and never detailed in the game line?

Why do the devs think that Twilights aren't smart enough to codify how Essence works and build technology with it?

>>43672267
>>43672285
Well, can either of you come up with something that makes a bit more sense?

>>43672310
>Why do the devs think that Twilights aren't smart enough to codify how Essence works and build technology with it?

Because that's boring and if you like it you're playing the game wrong

>>43672310
>What exactly is 3e's First Age supposed to be?
An ephemeral and distant place that each actor in the setting will have different ideas about.
What's the point of having it when it's going to be kept "mysterious" and "mystic" (fuck that bullshit excuse so hard) and never detailed in the game line?
So that it can remain a goal for characters (namely Babby's First Twilight) to pursue while not all actually pursuing the same thing in religious lockstep.

>Why do the devs think that Twilights aren't smart enough to codify how Essence works and build technology with it?
1) Why do you assume it's a question of smartness?
2) Magitech still exists, it just isn't slathered all over everything and treated like the One True Path to Utopia like a Krispy Kreme truck overturned.

>>43672341

Well, for one, make it a Lunar Charm, not an MA. And for two, you have the Lunar Hunt and kill another Lunar. And for three, it's a question of whether to have it add "another totem" (which might not mean anything in 3e) or chimerizing your totem with theirs.

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>>43672341
Yes, yes I can. A MA that focuses on defending a static object, like a building or just a pole buried in the ground, using it both as a weapon to complement the style and cover, Jackie Chan style.

Is that Laughing Wounds adaption in the 3e homebrew any good, guys? At a glance, it looks pretty nice.

>>43672423
Laughing at injured people is rude, anon. Laughing at your own injuries is insane.

>>43672399
I like it.

>>43672351
>1) Why do you assume it's a question of smartness?

Because the overall dev position is "magitech doesn't exist anymore because MYSTERIOUS and MYSTIC as if Twilights aren't smart enough to figure out that shit anyway. It's the flat "it doesn't work that way QED" without any in-universe justification that bugs me.

>2) Magitech still exists, it just isn't slathered all over everything and treated like the One True Path to Utopia like a Krispy Kreme truck overturned.

Problem is...technology is good. There's a reason why we use it. It makes zero sense for the Twilights to NOT make magitech. They have literally near-infinite resources, the sagacity of a thousand geniuses in EACH of them, thousands of years to work on stuff, and immense world-shaping power.

There's this belief that this cheapens the "magic" of the setting, but that's bullshit. The fact that 2e First Age Twilights were able to fucking industrialize the creation of artifacts is a representation of their immense skill and the mind-boggling abundance of the First Age--they turned the magical into the mundane.

Magitech in 2e was one of the main factors that got me into Exalted in the first place. Science Fantasy is easily my favorite genre of all time. To have the devs and a shitload of deluded nut-riding fans go "but that's WROOOOOOOOONG" pisses me the fuck off. Man what the FUCK happened to the epic anime fantasy game I fell in love with.

At least the system isn't shit anymore. But at the expense of the setting.

>>43672399
That's actually pretty close to what Heaven's Ladder was supposed to be.

>>43672368
Well I guess I'm just one of those people who can't into Exalted.

>>43672423
It shouldn't horribly break the game or anything but I haven't tried it yet.

>>43672511
>Because the overall dev position is "magitech doesn't exist anymore because MYSTERIOUS and MYSTIC as if Twilights aren't smart enough to figure out that shit anyway. It's the flat "it doesn't work that way QED" without any in-universe justification that bugs me.
"Magitech" as a label doesn't exist anymore. Magitech, the thing, still exists. Warstriders exists. First Age Artifice is all but explicitly the codeword for the things magitech used to cover in this edition.

>Problem is...technology is good. There's a reason why we use it. It makes zero sense for the Twilights to NOT make magitech. They have literally near-infinite resources, the sagacity of a thousand geniuses in EACH of them, thousands of years to work on stuff, and immense world-shaping power.
Technology is good, yes. Go ahead and have your Twilight spark an industrial revolution like five million first-timer Twilights before him. Magitech does not fill the same role, in the setting, as technology does.

Magitech--excuse, First Age Artifice--is BALLS HARD to do, and gives enormous returns on investment. It's singular wonders, not mass-produced works. That is the role of magitech in the setting.

>There's this belief that this cheapens the "magic" of the setting, but that's bullshit. The fact that 2e First Age Twilights were able to fucking industrialize the creation of artifacts is a representation of their immense skill and the mind-boggling abundance of the First Age--they turned the magical into the mundane.
And why do you assume that's what the 3e First Age did too? Why would you want ANY setting element to turn the magical into the mundane?

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>>43672588
This anon is correct on every point.

>>43672511
>Problem is...technology is good. There's a reason why we use it. It makes zero sense for the Twilights to NOT make magitech.
Why are you replying with this to a post that specifically says that magitech still exists? Besides, while there are reasons why we use technology, not all of those reasons exist for the Exalted. Technology isn't necessarily superior to what Exalts can achieve through their own Charms and old-fashioned, non-technological Artifacts. Technology sure would be nice for the people who aren't Exalted, but eh, who cares about those guys anyways? Pursuing technological advancement isn't necessarily all that good use of a Twilight's time compared to performing Sorcerous Workings or forging a daiklave meant for countering the strengths and exploiting the weaknesses of a particularly nasty behemoth who's been causing trouble.

>>43672588
>Magitech, the thing, still exists.

Not really. Now everything is pretentious special snowflake stuff.

>And why do you assume that's what the 3e First Age did too? Why would you want ANY setting element to turn the magical into the mundane?

I'm not a shallow fuckhead who cares about superfluous shit like that?

Your accusatory statement is based on the belief that "mundane = boring". I don't give a shit about that. I care about AESTHETIC. You can have a sci-fi/fantasy world but still have a magical aesthetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apojWw_ptO0

^ That's a video about a cyborg demigod literally tearing apart an entire fleet of battleships (which are capable of spaceflight as well) by himself. Despite this, it still has a fantastical and epic feel like what Exalted is going for, and, even more, the aesthetics of everything retain a mystic and magical feel, despite the obvious Sci-Fi trappings.

That is what the First Age should be, in my eyes.

>>43672638
First of all: "Exalts are callous tyrants who don't give a shit about mortals" is a bad idea because who the fuck wants to play a sociopathic piece of shit like that? You're supposed to be a hero.

Second, magitech can assist Twilights and other Exalts. Running simulations of new spells and sorcerous workings? Recording all your data through a hologlyphic glass tablet instead of paper? Keeping track of multiple things or observing every inch of your manse with floating essence-projection screens? Come on, man.

>>43672712
>That is what the First Age should be, in my eyes.
Then it sure is a good thing the First Age is mysterious enough that it may very well have been that, huh. :^)

>Second, magitech can assist Twilights and other Exalts. Running simulations of new spells and sorcerous workings? Recording all your data through a hologlyphic glass tablet instead of paper? Keeping track of multiple things or observing every inch of your manse with floating essence-projection screens? Come on, man.
That's all magitech you can still make. It will just be more significant; probably all as one single piece of Artifice, a massive Artifact N/A workshop.

>>43672310
>Why do the devs think that Twilights aren't smart enough to codify how Essence works and build technology with it?
They did, it's called Artifacts and Sorcerous Workings.

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>>43672712
>I want sci-fantasy
But that's not Exalted is about anymore. The devs made a creative design decision. This does not make the game better or worse, just different.

If you don't like it, run the same system in a different setting.

>>43672824
>If you don't like it, run the same system in a different setting.
Fuck, just run exactly the same setting but with repeatable, mass-producable works. The devs aren't oppressing your fucking vision.

>>43672712
>That is what the First Age should be, in my eyes.
Okay. It's not what the First Age should be in my eyes. Luckily Ex3 probably won't go into detail about how the First Age really was, meaning both of us can have it the way we want.

>You're supposed to be a hero.
You're really not. I mean, you can be a hero, but it's not particularly expected of you - not being a hero in the modern sense, at least. You're supposed to be a guy who's got whole lotta power. Being a villain is as acceptable and makes as much sense as being a hero, and being neither villain or a hero, or a bit of both, is probably the way the average Exalt, insofar a there is such a thing, rolls.

>>43672791
>Then it sure is a good thing the First Age is mysterious enough that it may very well have been that, huh. :^)
>That's all magitech you can still make.

That's not what the devs said. They all but explicitly stated that anything with a technological or Science-Fantasy aesthetic doesn't exist, QED. No temple-battleships, no essence-projection screens, no hologlyphic tablets...

You know that first part of Keychain of Creation, where the Circle invades that fallen manse and encounters its AI? That can't happen in 3e. And I don't think I like that.

>>43672824
I think their decision is stupid and their reasoning is even stupider.

And I decided to just roll my eyes and work on my own Mythic Science Fantasy setting and game, but...I still like Exalted you know. I love the setting except for this one decision. I'm not going to just throw the game in the trash because of it, I just don't like it.

>>43672864
Except for the fact that the devs and their sycophants on the OPP forums will yell "BUT THAT'S WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONG" at you all day long, and their attitudes will rub off on players so that most people will prefer the 3e way.

Also I don't care as much about the whole industrialization part. What I care about is the Science-Fantasy aesthetic the 2e First Age had.

>>43672864
Unless you want a reproducible method for generating yellow jade. I mean, it's a reasonable thing for your Twilight or DB craftfag to want, but if your ST actually gives it to you...

>>43669751
Yes. Story Path is replacing Storyteller, and it is marvelous at bridging the gap between Storyteller and actual modern, playable games.

>>43670124
You seem confused. Is this normal for you?

>>43672912
>Except for the fact that the devs and their sycophants on the OPP forums will yell "BUT THAT'S WROOOOOOOOOOOOOONG" at you all day long, and their attitudes will rub off on players so that most people will prefer the 3e way.
Both OPP forum and RPGnet have plenty of people who like magitech. Also not everyone who plays Exalted frequents either of those forums. This problem exists mostly in your head, not in the real world. If you stopped bitching about your entirely subjective preferences not being shared by everyone and just ran Exalted the way you like, you'd have a lot less problems.

>>43670877
Asking for clear rules in a game that is crunch heavy isn't really sperglord material.

It's pretty basic expectations for a professional product. "Professional" and "product" very much in quotations here, because both appear to be very absent.

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>>43670897

>>43672977
If you say so, man.

>>43673014
I do, Holden.

Tell Rich we're still waiting for those refunds!

>>43672977
"It's really obvious but it's not specifically spelled out in exact detail so I'm gonna get pissy" is spergy though.

>>43672528
Don't feel too bad. Holdemorke can't into Exalted either.

By their own admission they haven't played the game.

>>43673050
The refunds are happening, go post elsewhere.

I'm kinda surprised you backed the KS though, Strength of Many.

>>43673065
Whoah. Where's the source on this?

>>43673065
We really should call them Holdemorkt.

>>43673055
Well, if by "really obvious" you mean "there are at least three different ways to do this, depending on how you choose to read non-technical language" then sure, it's really obvious.

You can either say "attacker declares, then defender declares, then dice get rolled"

Or you can say "everyone declares whatever they want to in whatever order they want to until dice are rolled"

Or you can say "once the defender starts declaring the attacker can no longer declare and then the dice are rolled"

All of which change the tenor of the game somewhat. Between the first and last it's a significant change in tenor, because the attacker has to try to figure out what all the defender will try to do to counter them and miscalculation can carry serious drawbacks.

YMMV, but if you don't see how you can read all three of those into the words we currently have, you're not smart enough to read a newspaper editorial.

>>43672351

Personally I'll keep the magic age the same, magical internet and all.

If Water Parks with Hookers is a bad thing according to the devs, then let me be fucking wrong. I'll be busy getting blown by a DB hooker while going down a water slide.

>>43673055
It's really obvious from what?
Because it could easily go the other way with defender declaring first then attacker
Or it could go with an out bidding system or a secret bid or a secret outbid, we don't know, there's nothing in the text implying any of it

>>43673144
It's the first one, like they did in 1E and 2E.

>>43673184
>If Water Parks with Hookers is a bad thing according to the devs, then let me be fucking wrong. I'll be busy getting blown by a DB hooker while going down a water slide.
That can totally stay,it requires no sci-fi elements, and you can do it in the Second age too, with like a single working.

>>43673205
Are you sure about that?

Because I'm not.

The language is imprecise.

Which is what the complaint is.

>>43673065
I don't know why you're so hung up on Holdemorke being liars when you bullshit nonstop, friend.

>>43673205
Why is the first one? What you derive it from?
>inb4
I don't care about how it was done in two previous editions, even for a normal new edition of a game I'd expect enough mechanical rigor and clarity to be comprehensible to a newcomer
This is doubly true after Holdemorke shitted on everyone who worked on fluff and mechanics before them. This edition has their face and it's gotta stand on its own.

>>43673222
Hence the "whatever you say, spergy!"

>>43673096
>>43673239
It's weird because that's exactly what they said on the podcast they just did.

Are you saying they're lying, anon?

>>43673144
Maybe I am dumb (at least I'm very tired right now), but where is the difference between 1 and 3?

I also read it as 2 was intended, since nothing said something to the contrary.

>>43673248
Ok spergy.

>>43673250
Sure thing chief
I'll start paying attention to your opinion when you have an actual argument (ask your special needs teacher to help you develop one)

>>43673256
I listened to the podcast, they never said that.

Why keep lying?

>>43673260
The first is structured i.e. the attacker can take their time and pick charms. The latter is combative. The defender can simply declare their action at any point, at which time the rolls must occur.

There are a couple of other interpretations I've heard.

>>43673293
A 4th one I've heard is playing Charm-Chicken.

Each person announces a charm, and they only stop once they're not willing to raise anymore.

>>43673285
Your listening comprehension appears to be as poor as your reading comprehension, anon.

"I haven't even had a chance to play the game in about six years now." "Same." In effect, they've never played 2.5e and never played 3e. Ergo, they've never played the game in question (Exalted 3e).

Try to get at least 8 hours of sleep a night so you can keep up.

>>43673293

The latter sounds shockingly retarded and I'm not sure why you would ever see it as a valid interpretation.

>>43673265
>>43673250
>you're a sperg
>actually this is a legitimate complaint and here's some points illustrating my point of view
>that's why you're a sperg

ok Rand Brittain.

>>43673325
It was suggested because we have a certain player who always drags out their turns. Typically it ends with the ST going "Ok you're done. Defender uses these charms."

So you might have a time limit attached there. You might just go straight combative. But both are valid interpretations of the text block purporting to be the rules about operation order.

Which, if you're not clear, is the focus of the complaint.

>>43673322

But, they play tested the game and posted logs.

>>43673343
>ok Rand Brittain.
who in the fuck...

>>43673322
>never played 3e
Maybe because it's not out yet? And testing its various systems isn't exactly "playing"?

>>43673343
Oh please, like Rand would ever have the balls to call someone a sperg, Strength of Spergy.

>>43672948
>the gap between Storyteller and actual modern, playable games.
Harsh, anon.

Of course, you're also entirely correct.

>>43673325
Yes, it is. It's also a possible interpretation. Hence the game requiring the correct process plainly spelled out in text.
I don't know, maybe they can fit back an explanation of step by step resolution if they cut a bit of that horrendous Craft bloat or that Wyld Shaping Technique they designed to be unusable anyway.

>>43673371
>weak backhand

Come on now, you just accused someone of lying, got served, and all you've got is that weak backhand? Quit now while you're just ashamed.

>>43673369
It doesn't mean anything more than any of the other names. Think of it as some retard beating his chest and screaming "SAGE"

>>43673392
You're not arguing with just one person, sperglord.

>>43673389
>I don't know, maybe they can fit back an explanation of step by step resolution if they cut a bit of that horrendous Craft bloat or that Wyld Shaping Technique they designed to be unusable anyway.

D-do you even read what you're posting or do you just go out of your way to misinterpret everything in the most incompetent manner possible?

>>43673386
-…b-b-but what's so bad about Storyteller? I mean, you can hate a particular game, but nWoD2 seemed like a very beautiful modern sleek system. Then again, I haven't had the chance to play it, but still. What makes you hate Stioryteller per se?

>>43673464
Anything derived from Storyteller is terrible, and Fate is the only good system. Sorry.

>>43673369
Some brownnoser running full damage control on rpg.net

>>43673427
>Think of it as some retard beating his chest and screaming "SAGE"
I'm just thinking of someone from /vg/ who really hates this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV29YxK52XY

Imean, I know what a Sage is in 4chan terms, but that's just what I thought of

>>43673458
I thought I had a pretty clear comprehension of both what I was reading and what I was posting. You seem to disagree.
So please enlighten me: where did my comprehension fail?

>>43673492
well thanks.

>>43673492
Because he thinks the minus thread is shit?

Because, like, it mostly is shit, no matter your feelings on the game.

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Oh for fuck's sake. What is it about epic (as the genre) games that makes all their fans so terrible? You shitbadgers make this thread terrible and unreadable. You are bad and you should feel bad.

>>43673509
I listened to the podcast and I'm really missing the part where they said they /deliberately/ designed Wyld Shaping to be unusable, when all they said was they didn't want it overshadowing Craft completely like in 2E.

The problem lies in the thick gooey layer of paranoia between your ears and your broke-ass brain IMO.

Thing I don't get about the anti-Magitech/First Age Artifice/Whatever crowd is that they constantly blabber about "M-MUH BRONZE AGE AESTHETIC"

Well yeah, the Age of Sorrows does have a classical era aesthetic. It will continue to have it even if the First Age was filled with magic robots and genetically engineer servitor races.

The First Age is a golden age, and age undreamed of in the current "Spears and Swords" age by any but the the reborn God-Kings who created it once upon another life.

I'm saying you can have both sci-fantasy AND gritty bronze age mysticism.

>>43673542
>shitbadgers
And this is why we don't go into the Wyld kids!

>>43673542
We should all ignore Strength of Many's posts.

>>43673590
I dunno... That could be a Malfean fauna.

>>43673612
oh dear god, you made it worse!

>>43673565
Then again this anon COULD be relating to the fact that Wyld Shaping literally makes behemoths climb out of nowhere and attack you. I myself don't consider it really bad, actually, since it is well mitigated later in the game, for when the charm seems to be designed. But it DOES make the Charm all but unusable early and mid-game.

>http://howsfamily.net/Exalted
is the person who makes this here? If so i guess i have some bug reports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWHXexf2iHE
The Wyld is a strange place, yes?

>>43673464
Storyteller is really old. 20 years old? No other system is that old, even d20 is only 15 years old and people are well aware it's shit.

Storyteller is, fundamentally, imprecise. It was a decision taken with a mind to being more encouraging of role-playing than its contemporaries, AD&D(!) and RIFTS(!), to name a couple. Fundamentally, it is unchanged since then, although several refinements eventually led to nWoD 1e, which was somewhere between AD&D and 3e in that it still had vestigial (and often useless) callbacks to the older Storyteller engine.

The whole "natural language" versus "technical language" kerfluffle we had in these /exg/ threads underlines one of the major problems Storyteller has as an engine that were somewhat ameliorated when Rose Bailey (bless her heart) pushed for more technical language in nWoD.

>>43673491
Haha. Fate has its own problems, but it is notably better than Storyteller and derived systems.

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>>43673492
Rand Brittain, actual sperglord. Pic related.

Also, amusingly, the anon accusing others of being sperglords in this thread.

>>43673623
Not out of nowhere, you're in the Wyld! And you only get a behemoth specifically if you roll badly and attract all sorts of unpleasant attention.

Then again, the only Behemoth described in the core-book thus far isn't at all threatening to a Solar, even in early-game.

>>43673671
>Then again, the only Behemoth described in the core-book thus far isn't at all threatening to a Solar, even in early-game.
Well then, make ones that ARE threatening. It's not that hard Sonny Jim.

>>43673669
>the anon accusing others of being sperglords in this thread.

Oh there's definitely more than one anon doing that. I know because I also think they're being sperglords.

>>43673669
Wait, were you the faggot whining about how Rand was such a bully in an earlier thread?

http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43608142/#43611668

lmao you butthurt queef.

>>43673671
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it's actually not that bad a counterbalance for a potentially unlimited-power Charm. I was just suggesting that MAYbe (I really don't know) that one other anon was suggesting WST to be unusable because of that part and not something heard in the podcast.

(Also: in a way, the Wyld IS 'nothing'. Well, actually, it is more of an 'everything', but at that level of abstraction, it's about the same)

>>43673652
>Haha. Fate has its own problems, but it is notably better than Storyteller and derived systems.

Oh my mistake, I meant *World, the only good system.

>Rose Bailey
>bless her heart
>Rose Bailey
>her

Um, anon...?

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>>43673652
Thank you for your answer.

>>43673565
I didn't even listen to the podcast. Know what I did? I read the Charm and applied some critical spirit to it. It's fucking unusable.
The xp cost? Harsh, but it's your xp and I guess if you really really want to invest it in WYld Shaping hey ho go for it.
The mote cost? Nearly makes it unusable, fortunately there's ways for other Solars to stick around and lend you motes while you do your thing. If any of your friends feels like dipping in Lore just so they can be walking breathing motes batteries for their Wyld Shaping friend, go for it, dudes! Remember that you are also paying for Excellencies and whatever success-adder of your choice.
The Willpower cost? Actually completely bearable by just you... If you have a relatively high Willpower. Of course WP is harder to raise and regain in this edition, so maybe ask your mote buddies to buy Will-Bolstering Method.
The difficulty? Oh boy oh boy. Let's say I want to make a single talent of magical materials? Enough to get filthy rich from but not even enough to craft a daiklave (maybe a short one). First I gotta sculpt land through phase 4 - four rolls at difficulty 5, 6, 7, 8. Then it's back from the start and to phase 3: thre rolls at difficulty 5, 6, 7. For a total of 7 wp, 105 motes and 14 xp. If I fail any of these rolls at any time I lose everything I've worked for and every xp and wp I spent on it.

The Charm is simply written to be unusable for anything that you couldn't get from other stuff anyway - and horribly overpriced as an alternative. about the only good thing that cna be said about it is that it requires very little in-character time - a meaningless advantage in a role-playing game where the players decide the flow of the narrative.

>>43673581

The same reason that people sperg out about the possibility of guns existing in Exalted. They don't want the setting to change from Bronze Age at all. They want it stuck there for eternity and static.

>>43673222
>>43673144
>>43673190

From the text:

>Charms that reroll or otherwise remove numbers from a roll's result perform this action before other Charms can act upon them. If an attacker's Charm rerolls 1s, a defender's Charm which turns 1s on the attack roll into negative successes will not function unless the Charm's text specifically says that it does.

It seems to be clear that attackers declare charms before defenders, based on this?

>>43674019
Not even that anon, but how the fuck do you get that reading from that text? It says only that some charms get RESOLVED before others.

>>43674019
Not really.

>>43674094
Because the example was with a defender declaring the use of their charms after an attacker did?

Sorry...

>>43674141
um, no it's not. It says nothing about declaring charms.

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>>43673945
Dumb fuckers forget that giant mechs are Bronze Age as fuck.
Then again, the likelihood of anyone knowing Talos as anything other than a god in TES is slim...

>>43674226
And the Colossus of Rhodes is a thing.

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>>43674226
The problem is that they want animoo mecha, not metal or stone giants piloted by magic.

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>>43674335

>>43674335
The difference being a cockpit?

>>43674365
Indeed sir. I just like it if Warstriders were a mobile frame that amplified the soul(s) of the person/people piloting it and made weapons and armor out of that.

>>43674383
The difference being mechanical bits.
>>43674365
Because mecha are sci-fi.

>>43674417
I am half certain that I've heard of an anime like that.

>>43674434
So, if it's magic, it's okay.
But if it's magic moving a machine it's shit...
So Archimedes and Hero of Alexandria are too Iron Age?

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>>43674552
Ok, mechanical is too broad a term. i mean there's a difference between sci-fi mecha and whatever steampunkish brass monstrosities of cogs and floating magic armor would fit Bronze Age.

>>43673144

>You can either say "attacker declares, then defender declares, then dice get rolled"

>Or you can say "everyone declares whatever they want to in whatever order they want to until dice are rolled"

Both methods yield the same end result because in both situations the defender will unleash a response that is proportional to the attacker's.

So use whatever option your group finds more fun because the difference is really academic.

>>43673190
>Because it could easily go the other way with defender declaring first then attacker

Ask yourself how most groups handle orders of operations in games that don't spell it out.

Protip: a person cannot declare a defense against an attack that hasn't happened occurred against them yet, regardless of the system.

>secret bids

No. Read the section on transparency again. Secrecy only applies to a couple of war charms in very specific circumstances.

A lot of the bullshit in these threads would go away if the anons hell-bent on proving the game is bad would actually read the rules.

>>43674019
>>43674141
No, that was not an example of Charm declaration, that was an example of order of operation of already-declared Charms influencing the same roll

>>43674652
>that hasn't happened occurred against them yet

Before telling others to read, you should probably step back for a while and actually learn English.

>>43674623
>whatever steampunkish brass monstrosities of cogs and floating magic armor would fit Bronze Age.
I was thinking of the Warstriders having Moonsilver joints, because that just seems like a sensible way to explain a machine moving as a man.

>>43674652
Sorry, I mistyped one part.

>Protip: a person cannot declare a defense against an attack that hasn't yet been made against them, regardless of the system.

>>43671745
>Their main feature is that their petals (as well as the behemoth's skin) are covered by a sweet-smelling substance that acts like a drug, overloading everyone that touches it with images of the infinite possibilities of the Wyld. Affected people just lay down where they stand smiling dopey, touching more flowers getting more and more dosages until they die of thirst.
Lets do...things with these flowers involving a herd of Beasts of Resplendent Liquid

>>43674652
Dude I can't believe this bullshit I'm reading.
Declaring a defense against an attack is one thing. It's also a thing that doesn't happen in Exalted due to defense being passives, thus no need to declaration.
Charm activations are enhancements of attacks and defenses that are already happening. There's no particualr reason attacker should always be first. There's no particular reason defender should always be first. Arguments could be made for both cases (mainly who do you want to be stronger due to having more info available for decisions). The rules have to resolve this or any solution you come up with falls into house rule territory.
Leaving such a fundamental mechanic of the game to house rule territory is a mark of poor professionalism and/or writing skills.

>>43674694
You don't need to explain it, it's magic. Nobody tried to explain the Colossus of Rhodes or Talos.

>>43674623
There is a difference, but the line doesn't fall in the same location for everyone.
There is overlap and one person's refluff of Greek fire is another person's too modern flamethrower.

>>43674683
I made a typo, it happens. Relax, Strength of Many.

>>43674737
Okay, bad choice of words there, I guess it having Moonsilver joints would look cool in the "Oh gods we wouldn't have enough Moonsilver for one joint if we wanted to replicate this." sort of way

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>>43674738
True enough.

>>43674720
ohh, I hadn't considered that. I guess they could produce the drug, too. If you fed them the flowers.

>>43674737
>I don't know my mythology
Talos was pretty well explained.
A bronze man brought to live with ichor (that's god blood) he was killed when someone pulled out his plug and he bled out. Some myths further consider him the last of the Bronze men, indicating either a robot race or mass production.

Holden getting really frustrated on rpg.net as people post mechanical fixes and better systems than the shit he tried to shove down peoples' throats.

Meltdown in...

>>43674812
And we can expect your product in Yu Shan, when?

>>43674838
5!

>>43674813
I mean in a more mechanical sense, like how his joints work, or how he sees and talks while lacking human organs, that kind of nitpicky, unimportant things.

>>43674729
>There's no particualr reason attacker should always be first.

Let me give an example.

Bill: I attack Bob.
Bob: Oh yeah, well I defend with X, Y, Z.

versus

Bill: I defend against Bob's attack with X, Y, Z.
Bob: I attack... Josh?

One makes way more sense than another!

>>43674694
Sounds like a fun way to make maintenance a nightmare, or just more relevant to the story as a whole. These joints cannot be repaired without an unholy amount of moonsilver. That damaged control ligature can only be replaced with a new part composed of yellow jade.

>>43674861
Ah, apologies for the snide snark back then.

In some versions he is implied go be a functional human but made of Bronze given movement through the divine blood in his veins. Like, functional circulatory system. However, that one is obscure and in all possibility fan fic from centuries later.

>>43674838
Nigga I realize you are tsundere for Holden but shilling for notanautomotan's shitty heartbreaker is kinda pathetic, given how many other people are also criticizing it.

"You're on the road to failure.

You have not defined any parameters, set up any overarching goal, nor otherwise lay down the basic design statements that answer the fundamental questions - "What is Exalted? What do I want out of Exalted? How am I going to achieve these goals?"

You have pretty much copy-pasted ES and Aleph's houserules. So far, you have done no work, but worse than this, you have already decided to use a specific paradigm anyway, before you even answered the basic questions that should tell you what paradigm to choose.

You took a new set of attributes and abilities because they are "neat," and intend to build your personal new edition from this basis. You are, ironically, doing the exact same mistake the SV crowd has accused the devs of doing - holding on to the Storyteller system as "legacy code" and not reworking things from the ground up."

I mean, unless you're notanautomaton, in which case, fuck off?

>>43674885
And so on, there should be parts that no one wants to remove, take apart and study because:
>A) They might not know how to put them back together afterwards.
>B)There's no telling what removing them would do to the Warstriders functionality.

>>43674907
See that's the perfect amount of "it's magic, lol". It's not too little that it's boring, not too much to bog down the setting with magic science.

>>43674871
You are dense, aren't you?
We are talking about Charm declaration, not declaration of attack
The fact that Bill is attacking Bob is already set in stone when we are at the point when we declare respective Charms
Your example would be:
Bill: I attack Bob
Bob: [doesn't need to say anything because DV is passive and is automatically happening]
Bill: OK, so I'm attacking, now Charm declaration, uh... You first
Bob: No way, I want to know what you are activating for your attack
Bill: Well I wnat to know whatyou are activating for your defense before deciding if I want to spend motes on this attack at all!
[Mexican standoff until it's time to pack up and close the session]
Seriously I hate feeling like I'm talking to a mentally handicapped person because I know you aren't, you are just being contrarian for no valid reason

>>43674838
Unf, yeah, it's looking really good: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?770263-Exalted-Exalted-Blackjack-and-Hookers-edition/page3

>At least my legacy code is one year old, rather than two and a half decades. And my goal is to create a system to support the Exalted that I play. A world fallen after two apocalypses, filled with ancient ruins and strange cultures, where having infrastructure is really, really important, and where your inferiors turning on you can and will result in your death, regardless of your own power. A system that supports that without being overly mechanical. Charms that are each important and interesting, where reading the charms section isn't a soporific. And less rape than every other edition.

Unf, I fucking love your next to no thought into this heartbreaker and constant passive aggression, man. I orgasm with every post you make.

Ahahahaha.

>>43674922
Afraid I'm not notautomaton, Holden.

>>43674976
Afraid I'm not Holden, Strength of Many

>>43674961

This >>43674976

I don't post at rpg.net. Why would I?

But as entertainment it's fucking great.

>>43674976
>>43675005
OH MY GOD! Will you two STOP memeing!

>>43674938
Also, fits easy into the system.
Essence driven.
An Underworld version likely would require actual godblood. A Solar version may be powered off prayers or the divine might of it's maker. Infernal versions are possibly Demons shaped that way that must constantly eat gods to keep fueled.

However, yes, designing a fully formed and functional body from a block of Bronze would be, while labour (and likely medicine as well as craft) intensive would be a flavourful feat.

>>43674928
I can see that being a hilarious limit break. Take the whole thing apart on a manic investigation bender. No idea how to reassemble. Juggernaut inbound, ETA 2 weeks.

>>43675027
No, that's actually Holden.

You can tell from how mad he is.

>>43674953
There's a few ways this can go:

Bill: I attack Bob <describes attack stunt>
ST: Are you using any charms on that?
Bill: uh... sure
ST: Ok Bob, how do you defend?
Bob: <Describes defense stunt, and maybe charms.>

>>43674976
Well, just keep sucking his dick, I'm plenty entertained by you too. Make sure to gargle *all* the cum.

>>43675032
Well I can see this going just swimmingly.

>>43673581
The problem with Magitek is that people are not creative and make it look exactly like modern technology or banal Sci-Fi. Its a terrible aesthetic and really fucking boring: Essence Internet, Essence trains, Essence space ships, etc

I have no problem with magitek in Exalted as long as it both has a different aesthetic and different feel from conventional Sci-Fi. More Miyazaki Castle in the Sky less cyberpunk

>>43675087
How about Naussica or Laputa?

>>43674976
You seem awfully defensive. Isn't notanautomaton our lord and savior, here to make the best edition of Exalted ever!?

You should be honored and simply wait for le epic meltdown XD

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>>43675068
Oh, I don't think notautomaton's system is worth a damn. There are already better hacks out there, including the attached.

But watching Holden get buttmad about people doing a better job than he did, publicly? Priceless.

>>43675108
Derp, Laputa is castle in the sky.

>>43675087

>Its a terrible aesthetic

For you maybe. There are lots of other people who love the hell out of it. Its alright though as you can storytell either way.

>>43675117
>>43675129
STFU FGT

>>43675129

...

> people post mechanical fixes and better systems than the shit he tried to shove down peoples' throats

You said, eagerly spreading your anus to be receive notanautomaton's might Valor.

>Politics, which covers dealing with large organizations, and Bureaucracy, which covers running large organizations.

Yeah, this is totes better than Ex3.

Ahahahahaha.

So Cutting Circle of Destruction can be enhanced with supplemental charms as though they were reflexive. Reflexive charms don't have to be from the ability they're enhancing. Discuss.

>>43674961
>And less rape than every other edition.
I love how he just HAD to mention this.

>>43675183
Thank goodness someone has some sense

>>43675190
You can only use Reflexives if it makes sense for you to be able to use them, nothing is broken.

>>43675247
What?

>>43675129
Urgh, Cortex. I've played that mod before too. Its mechanics are so clunky as to break immersion whenever you want to do anything, and they completely fail to capture the feel of Exalted.

>>43675194
Well, technically, everything is rape.

>>43675129
>But watching Holden get buttmad about people doing a better job than he did, publicly? Priceless.

>referencing Aleph's gay fucking Kerisgame that the bitch cannot stop talking about

I love the confirmation that all the butthurt in these threads was just because you have shit taste, anon :3

>>43675144
I guess I just don't understand why you would want to portray First Age technology as conventional Sci-Fi when there are so many other directions you can take. It seems like a failure of the imagination

ah, the edf is here

i thought i would take a moment to remind you all

refunds are now available

contact rich for yours today

he can't remove you from the kickstarter, there's a non-zero chance you'll get your stuff too

>>43675271
>Characters may use any of their reflexive Charms at any time, so long as it makes sense for them to do so,
Right from the book.

>>43675353

I am still waiting on my response. I really don't even want my copy.

>>43675344
The First Age was raised to Glorious Heights unimaginable! *imagines the modern day exactly but crosses out 'electricity' and replaces it with 'essence'*

>>43675353
Some day, bold warrior, we will get notanautomaton his rightful place as lead dev of Exalted.

Until then, we must shill harder for our lord and god.

>>43670976

>Tier Practical Maximum Potential Maximum
Mundane 4 5
Daredevil/Psion 5 6
Hero/Proxy 5 6
Demigod/Nova 6 6
God/Terat 6 7

My attempt to put it in Exalted power relations:
Mortal
Heroic Mortal
Terrestrial Exalted
Celestial Exalted
Maybe Solar?

>>43675353
hurrr

>>43675372
Can I have it?

Incidentally I really don't want you or no-caps-guy posting here, but we all have to suffer through it.

>>43675372
he has been very quiet since the first person successfully battered down his inbox

>>43675390
you're confusing me with another anon, anon

easily done

id much prefer neall be given exalted 4, but chances are it will go to conrad. everyone likes conrad.

>>43675381
>The First Age was raised to Glorious Heights unimaginable!
>imagines
>>43675398
Mortal
Heroic Mortal
Terrestrial Exalted/Young Celestial or Solar
Celestial Exalted or Solar
Elder Solar/Incarna

>>43675407

No. I will just mail it back to Onyx Path.

>>43675306
You seem 9000% buttmad.

How angry are you every morning when you're reminded you're a lying liar? I don't get up super early just to start new threads, but it's a really great side benefit of getting up super early.

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>>43675129
Please break down exactly what is superior about notanautomaton's system. Please. PLEASE.

I need this from you. Get off your fat ass and start typing this shit. It's the only thing that I actually want from your fat, filth-ridden fingers.

>>43675381
Hey now, there were hover boards, it's at least near future.

However point taken, the space between sci Fi and sci fantasy can be a bit odd.

>>43675423
I like Holden, hth

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>>43675454
I'm sorry I don't have the unconditonal love for notanautomaton's homebrew that you do, anon. Unlike yourself, I am not HIV positive, so there is nothing for his posts to cure...

>>43675487
yes but he has managed to insult a significant portion of the fanbase

whereas conrad's only insult was arguably 2e lunars

>>43675487
Me too.

Not because he is particularly good, but because he makes people I otherwise dislike really mad.

>>43675524

Which had some good points. At least compared to 1e. But 1e Lunars were just so terrible its stupid to compare.

>>43675539
congratulations on your life, it seems everything's going swimmingly

>>43675524
>yes but he has managed to insult a significant portion of the fanbase

Insulting you is excellent and good though.

>whereas conrad's only insult was arguably 2e lunars

Then he should die.

Fuck off with Silver Solars.

>>43675557
i wasn't really defending it.

i'm just saying it's only arguably conrad's fault, because most people blame alan alexander

>>43675569
It actually is.

Also I know Neall, he's nice and I like him. I'm probably going to end up playing both Scion and Exalted, given that both systems have different priorities.

>>43675524
anyone in charge of 2e lunars shouldnt be allowed near the line holy fuck

>>43675625
oh shit i forgot to use pink text

yes, neall is good people

many of the opp freelancers are

especially the ones who specifically refused to work with holden

>>43675557
>1e Lunars
Yep, that is about the bottom of the barrel.

>>43675643
I mean, if these people are super into that one rpg.net guy's homebrew, things suddenly make a lot of sense.

>>43675665
I like Exalted 3E though too.

It is possible to like both.

>>43675580
>Fuck off with Silver Solars
Because Lunar powers should only ever be shape changing, amirite?

>>43675454
>I don't get up super early just to start new threads

I'm just chiming in randomly to say that's an oddly specific denial that just makes you seem frighteningly pathetic.

>>43675707
look, it's pretty simple

there are people who like slavery too

they're demonstrably wrong about it, but they do have the right to like it

>>43675557

What is so terrible about 1e Lunar? (I do not know the first edition)

>>43675707
no it isn't

ex3 is tainted by holden's involvement

>>43675721
That's not what he said at all. He doesn't want the charms to just be Solar Charms with [Animalnoises.mp3] thrown in.

>>43675721
Exactly. Which is why their charms should be weaker, more expensive knockoffs of Solar Charms while their actual unique abilities should be sequestered in knacks in order to keep Eclipses vaguely balanced.

Because that is what I mean by Silver Solars.

>>43675794
So, in what way are 2e Lunar charms more Solar clones than 2e Terrestrial charms?
Are we complaining about excellencies?
Or that they use the same core system?
Specifics, please.

Lemme sum up what happens whenever the devs are brought up in these threads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szhs8BjgYH8

>>43675768

Technically a lot of 3e's actual problems are Morke's ideas. Holden has a couple bad ideas and then defends them to the death which just makes them more apparent.

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>>43675748
>>43675768

You don't have to post twice at me. I'm sorry...

>>43675768
holden is real, and strong, and my friend

>>43675844
I'm complaining about how Lunars were weaker, shittier Solars.

That's what Silver Solars referred to.

They should've been better, and 2E didn't deliver on this.

>>43675861
i could take holden one on one

holden wasn't in the marines like i was

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Not this again.

>>43675895
Let's talk about something else.

It looks like in 3E, Dragonblooded seem to be built around getting buffs when they have bigger initiative than their opponents?

>>43675804
Point taken.

What would be a better solution?
How would you mechanically create their charms?

>>43675844
You seem to be taking this rather personally. Either way. Their charms are basically just Solar charms, because they geenerally shove anything remotely interesting into knacks. I would like to point out this is not conjecture on my part.

It is actually a stated design of 2e Lunars, so that Eclipses can harvest their charmset without compromising their Solar-ness. Which is why you have charms like Wind-Wings Carry Technique, or... Really, the vast majority of charms in the book, which seem like merely Solar charms with references to silver, and animal things in it.

As opposed to say, Sidereals, whose charmset, while broken as all fuck, didn't feel like Solar Charms with a coat of silver paint.

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>>43675925
Yes, and it makes sense. There are many of them, so if you focus one, the others get a chance to recover.

>>43675927
There was a playtest for Lunar Errata that got scrapped in favor of 3E, but I remember stuff that basically let Lunars eat people's brains to get artifical mentor dots (getting all their memories, knowledge, and known languages too) or split off their heart's blood forms into seperate beings, to impersonate multiple people at the exact same time.

>you go into an isolated village
>everyone in the entire village is basically a single Lunar.

There was also a war charm that let them double the size of their armies as an illusion effect, by getting their dudes to be *really loud* when marching or mounting empty suits of armor on battlements.

It never really got out past playtesting, but it bodes well for 3E, I think.

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>>43675981
>>43675925
However, the actual DB splat is likely to have completely different mechanics, according to the devs.

>>43676010
So long as they get to keep the charms that let them buff battle-groups directly.

Solar War seems to be more big picture strategy in 3E, so making DBs into front-line commanders and sergeants who lead their guys from the front would be thematically appropriate and also really interesting.

>>43676002
>There was a playtest for Lunar Errata that got scrapped in favor of 3E
suuuuuuure there was

its not like holden and morke didnt make a huge stink about hating playtesting or anything

>>43676067
It was during the Ink Monkeys period with them, actually.

Plus, it looks like animals (and subsequently, shapeshifting into animals) looks like its now worth a damn this edition.

>>43676010
my dad says holden is going to get fired anyway

>>43676051
That'd be great, yes. Perhaps buff groups up to (Essence) in Size, with each DB casting cooperatively adding +1 to the size limit.

>>43676067
Could you please stop trying to make every conversation about your hatred of the devs? I would really appreciate it.

I'm actually making some effort into writing 3e Lunars, so I am actually interested in the playtest >>43676002 mentioned.

>>43676098
I'll see if I can find it again, then, either for this or future threads. I'm just a little scared that the devs might find out who shared it with me and then it starts *more* drama.

Then again, I think they've stopped reading /tg/...

>>43676098
Some people just want to keep talking, Anon. Even if they've already said all they have to say, they just don't want to stop.

>>43676148
>Then again, I think they've stopped reading /tg/...
hahahaha

as if

those egomaniacs can't handle not having control of the narrative, but they read desperately and encourage others to post defenses of them and their work

it's fucking pathetic

almost as pathetic as the echo chamber the irc has become

>>43675960
>>43676002

I am used to dealing with the Lunars can't have nice things camp. Apologies for knee jerk.

Excellencies are a base.
The war charm for illusionary forces was in the actual 2e Lunars.
I personally would have preferred more illusion and emotion charms. Some were solid and had their role, others were sorta pointless.
The memory steal through sacred hunt is cool. As would be creating short lived familiars.

Did you care for the rage or gift charms at all?

>>43676181
>those egomaniacs can't handle not having control of the narrative, but they read desperately and encourage others to post defenses of them and their work
so you know the truth

keep fighting the good fight my friend

>>43676098
Okay, here's a paste I made, with hopefully all the details to protect the (not so) innocent.

http://pastebin.com/AqDCfvYL

I don't think it's that big of a deal now, because this is an early draft of errata for an older edition, and likely their plans for 3E Lunars have changed quite a bit?

>>43676181
Nah, they really just ignore it now and I use these threads to call them fags anonymously.

You though, you take this to an entirely uncomfortable level.

>>43676310
i'm sorry that i make you uncomfortable

maybe you just can't handle how right i am hmmmm?

>>43676367
lmao

Where do you even live? Like, you're the weirdest motherfucker in these threads by far.

>>43676392
i bet you'd like to know that holden

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>>43676392

>>43676411
No, I'm Holden. Now fuck off.

>>43676280
Thank you very much. I'll look this over for my own Lunar writing.

>>43676095
Or they could just wear battle-groups like pants, ala 2E?

That'd probably be a terrible idea though.

>>43676280
Gratitude

>>43676530
Well, anything to unfuck these threads' signal to noise ratio!

>>43676680
tell edf to go pls go

>>43676755
No. You go. Having actual discusion about the game is way better than shitposting and bitching and whining and doomsaying and whatever. Even if the game is bad. Which it may be, it all depends on the person in question.

>>43676812
you'll note i only respond to their shitposting these days

>>43676755
Why you so mad, faggot?

I wanna talk about a game I like, sorry that triggers you.

>>43676868
So you samefag constantly?

>>43674953
>The fact that Bill is attacking Bob is already set in stone when we are at the point when we declare respective Charms
Why isn't Bill declaring his charms when he declares he's attacking bob?

>>43677003
I don't know, why isn't he?
Because the rules don't specify that he should.

Oh hey I've got another question for you:

How do you resolve Charm activation order when it's a contest without an attacker or a defender?

>>43676934
samefagging is when you respond to yourself, anon

>>43677050
>How do you resolve Charm activation order when it's a contest without an attacker or a defender?

Not in defense of Exalted, but I've legitimately never seen an RPG ever say a word about this.

D&D, WoD, LotW, etc, absolutely nowhere ever have I seen "when two characters are acting in opposition with no clear attacker or defender, here is how you declare their relevant abilities."

And to be honest I'd love to see even ONE try it, because I can't think of any ways of doing it that aren't either: inherently disadvantaged for the guy who goes first (X-then-Y order) OR extremely onerous to use more than once or twice per session (secret bids).

>>43677050
>Because the rules don't specify that he should.
I don't know about the specific text but it seems pretty logical. Why assume that he shouldn't? When they declare an action my players just declare the charms that modify that action as they do. It's never been much of a problem to us.

>How do you resolve Charm activation order when it's a contest without an attacker or a defender?

That's a very good question, although I feel like the order of declaration doesn't actually matter much in play for those circumstances. Can you think of an example of a situation where it would matter?

>>43677151
>because I can't think of any ways of doing it that aren't either: inherently disadvantaged for the guy who goes first (X-then-Y order) OR extremely onerous to use more than once or twice per session (secret bids).
Why not just go with "totally arbitrary order with individual players having the possibility to add in shit after the fact but before anything's rolled"? Avoids disadvantaging players early in the order, not much trouble.

>>43677255
>Why not just go with "totally arbitrary order with individual players having the possibility to add in shit after the fact but before anything's rolled"?

If it's escalation-only, then nobody will swing in with a heavy opening bid, which leads to a mild opening, then a ramp up, then another ramp up, then ANOTHER ramp up until at last someone decides they can't or don't want to pay the motes/WP/spellslots to win this contest. It drags out action resolution by a factor or 3 or 5, easy.

If you can escalate OR retract, then you hit an endless loop that has to be broken at some point

>>43677151
I don't know about LotW or nWoD, but both in D&D and in oWoD there should be no need for a ruling like that because you have not dice-enhancing powers you have to declare on the fly - your action IS the power, as opposed to Exalted in which your action is enhanced by the power(s)

In D&D for example everything the opponent decides happens out of your round, and your reactions are limited to picking up the d20 to roll a save... if even that; oWoD has its initiative order as well and while there are some (I think) reflexive powers you can activate to enhance an action you are already taking, they are so rare and hte resource economy is so fundamentally different that in 99% of cases you don't have to worry about priority of activation; and when you do it's so rare that you cna legitimately say "welp this is a fringe case I'll just rule it on the fly"

This includes contested actions, of course. You have an order of initiative, at the pointa guy declares an action you could contest your options are: a) you still have freedom of selection because it's not your turn or whatever so you can decide to contest; b) you are already locked into another action for the turn so suck it up (or spend a wp if the ST will allow it)

Exalted is fundamentally different. Here you don't simply decide which action should you take and the opponent does not have the simple option of doing something or nothing in response. Here booth contenders have access to abilties which are not actions that mechanically affect the actions they have taken; such abilities and the accompanying resouyrce expenditure are an integral part of turn-by-turn gameplay and deserve to be addressed with as much rigor as humanly possible

And yes, giving priority to one or the other gives the advantage to one of the contenders; the one with access to the most information at the moment of decision. But honestly? I couldn't think of any game that isn't Exalted where this happens.

>>43677151
>Not in defense of Exalted, but I've legitimately never seen an RPG ever say a word about this.
Well it's true no other RPGs have Charms, but plenty of RPGs include Orders of Operation.

>>43677323
>It drags out action resolution by a factor or 3 or 5, easy.

It's the method I use at the table and it certainly doesn't prove problematic there. People generally declare what they intend to use and only add stuff in in case the opponent reveals they're using something very scary.

>>43677419
>and in oWoD there should be no need for a ruling like that

Two vampires are in any tug-of-war or other largely-symmetrical contest of strength outside of combat. How much do they spend on bloodbuffs?

Literally right off the top of my head, dude.

>>43677447
And that OoO usually has a massive blindspot on contested actions.

LotW spends a lot of words talking about sorting out who the active vs. reactive character is in most opposed actions, but in the cases where there's neither it just shrugs its shoulders and assumes you'll be fine, despite that completely ripping the logic out of how powers are declared.

>>43677521
Fate is pretty clear on it.

>>43677186
>That's a very good question, although I feel like the order of declaration doesn't actually matter much in play for those circumstances. Can you think of an example of a situation where it would matter?

Uh, pretty much any contested roll that isn't an attack?
Two Solars are racing and both have access to Athletics Charms; both could enhance their run on the contested roll but neither feels like overcommitting motes to a race they could won otherwise.

>I don't know about the specific text but it seems pretty logical. Why assume that he shouldn't? When they declare an action my players just declare the charms that modify that action as they do. It's never been much of a problem to us.

I can agree that it's logical andthe most sane thing to do, but you know what? I still want to see it written in the rules. I'm also not in the habit of inferring authorial intent from omissions.

>>43677323
Constant outbidding is madness.

>>43677469
My question to you is:
does vampire arm-wrestling happen as often as contested rolls (including attack vs DV) happen in Exalted? Is it as central to the game?

I wouldn't care about having detailed resolution to vampire arm-wrestling (or vampire footracing or vampire whatever) because I'd be called to arbiter on that like one time per story, tops, and it'd be sufficiently rare that no one would care about me ruling one way or the other. No one would even care if next time it came up (next season) I ruled in an inconsistent manner. Also, it's very likely that each vampire would only be able to spend up to 3 BP, so I would simply allow a public outbidding that would be resolved in 4 seconds flat.

Do you think you could say the same about contested rolls in Exalted?

>>43677593
>Two Solars are racing and both have access to Athletics Charms; both could enhance their run on the contested roll but neither feels like overcommitting motes to a race they could won otherwise.

First of all, that's mitigated by the fact that a race is usually an extended action. A lot of these contested rolls are. Choosing what to invest in the early or final rolls is part of the player's strategy for the race, so that helps avoid each roll being identical (and tends to push the "outbidding" aspect to the last few rolls, where I find it appropriate).

And then, player vs player contested rolls aren't that common, and for those players tend to know what each other's character is capable of, so the "bidding war" doesn't happen. For Player vs ST contested rolls, there's only going to be a bidding war if you let it happen (which means you generally have a good idea wether or not you want to push your "FUCK YOU" button and alpha-strike something even before declaring anything).

>>43677833
Okay, you told me that:
-this is not a common situation
-rather than one contested roll this would be resolved through several contested rolls in an extended contested action
-both players have a choice to invest heavily early, heavily late or evenly throughout the race
You spectacularly failed to address my point: what happens if it's time to roll, both players (or the player and the ST whatever) want to wait to see what the other is committing before deciding what to commit themselves?

>>43676280
Man, if they get pissy about that, they are literally sub-human anyway.

For fuck's sake. 5 years of promising a lunar fix, and then they get a good chunk into it...and decide fuck it, 3e now.

AND THEN REFUSE TO RELEASE WHAT THEY HAD DONE.

That's the part that kills me. Sure, move on, if you want, but release. That. SHIT. Motherfuckers. I want to use it, even if it's not finished because it'll be another decade until 3x Lunars are out, and that's assuming I don't have to take another year to re-do THAT because I hate the Hurblur ANIMAL ONLY bullshit!

>>43674483
Evangelion

Ooo ooo, I've got another!
Bill is at a higher initiative than Bob. For whatever reason Bob decides that rather than attacking immediately, he's delaying his action - he wants to see how hard is Bob going, whatever.
It's Bob's turn. Bob decides to attack. Bill has the option of clashing the attack.
Does Bill decide wether to Clash or not before or after seeing Bob's Charm declaration for the attack?
If the answer is "after" then this gives a serious advantage to Bill's defensive delaying strategy; after seeing what Bob is committing he could just decide to Clash with a superior force... or if Bob overcommits Bill could just nope! with a perfect for 4 motes and get a free attack in the same turn out of the whole mess
If the answer is "before" then, well, it would run contrary to what everyone is sayingis the logical thing; the attacker, or rather the player who is taking a turn, would not be declaring Charm activation upon taking his action because his decision would be reliant on another decision by the other player

>>43678036
I'm the guy who posted it, and again this was just early playtest stuff, so it might not even be that good. I just wanted to help out home few guy.

>>43678178
It is after, a clash is a defensive charm.

>>43678274
*homebrew

I'm phoneposting.

>>43678274
*homebrew

Frigging phone.

>>43678313
A Clash isn't a Charm, but I suppose you meant action? It isn't defensive either. Both are attackers. Hell at this point Bill isn't either an attacker nor a defender... He hasn't evne decided when his turn is!

Another great session. Group liking the rules, everything flows OK (and getting better as system mastery levels increase). Couple of bad character builds are getting slowly fixed up by Solar XP. Everyone's having a lot of fun doing their thing and doing it hard.

Sounds impossible, reading this thread, doesn't it? Almost like my group aren't a pack of whiny shitheads with a grude. Funny that.

>>43678544

No. You just have a pack of simpletons who are entertained by shiny objects.

>>43678544
>Another great session.
>Group liking the rules
>everything flows OK
>fixed up by Solar XP
>Everyone's having a lot of fun

OK Holden.

>>43678274
I'm aware. I'm just expressing if they do get pissy, they are fucking idiots.

>>43678544
Hey i've had fun playing 3.5/pathfinder before doesn't make those games any less shitty.