EDH general

>>43611441
First for Perplexing Chimera

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>>43611466
you could atleast post a picture

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>Derevi player plays Prophet of Kruphix and leaves mana up for two counterspells
>Cycle Decree of Annihilation at the end of his turn
>He tries to counterspell it
>Scoops as soon as I explain he can only do that with Stifle/Trickbind, calls me a tremendous faggot for using MLD

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>>43611441
Here's some fucking fun for you

SLAP A MOTHERFUCKER IN THE FACE WITH A DARKSTEEL FORGE

>>43611283

They're both making lands into creatures with stats, but the stats differ. I'm honestly not sure.

Anyone know how Worldwakers -7 interacts with Living Plane when it is already on the table?

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>>43611523
Basic bitch shit right there.

>>43611517
>Derevi player
>called me a faggot for playing LD
Pot calling the kettle black anyone?

>>43611545
>Not using a Mycosynth Lattice and Bludgeon Brawl to make Eldrazi Conscription into an Artifact Equipment Aura that grants +18/+10, trample, and Annihilator 2

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>>43611523
gets even better with this

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>>43611545
more stupid combos!

>>43611742
What the fuck I'm so confused

>>43611953
It's a convoluted way to transform Garruk.

>>43611953
liquid metal coat garruk. garruk is now a artifact planeswalker
play march of the machines. garruk is now a artifact creature planeswalker
play xenograft, choose human. garruk is now a artifact creature planeswalker human
play moonmist, transform all humans, garruk is a human --> garruk flips

>>43611742
That is hamfisted as FUCK.

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Would this go better into the snakes or spells deck from C15?

Just getting into commander tommorrow.....

store has 10% off on deck + sleeves + box so i might bight

I don't have much of anything in the way of modern, but i figure since i got a kira i will start with that and go from there...

>>43612027
Snakes obviously

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>>43611441
fun cards eh?

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I feel like the biggest weakness in my RW artifact deck is lack of draw power. What are the best card-drawing artifacts? I have mind's eye, but that's about it.

>>43612093
>RW having a lack of drawing power
>the sky is blue

>>43612122
He wasn't saying that it was surprising, you super-doofus, he was looking for ways to mitigate it. How useless can you be?

>>43612027
Why would you do that? Wouldn't it screw up the tempo because it'd take twice the mana to make things unblockable from your commander?

First for Mishra Eggs

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>>43611596
>>43611523
There has to be a way to abuse these cards, Magnetic theft, and Zada, Hedron Grinder.

I want to make a Tron deck where you shit out goblins, turn them into artifact creatures, play Bludgeon Brawl, and use Magnetic Theft to attach them all to Zada. I need this in my life.

>>43612457
Wouldn't work, since Zada's not the only target of the spell

I wish it worked

Dark Depths can be in a nonblack deck, right?

>>43612642
Yes, it has no black symbols on it.

>>43612642
Yes

>>43612753
>>43612755
Oh boy my friends are going to hate me when I can finally be a real dick with Vesuva or Thespian's Stage

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>>43612093
I don't see a lot of people use it, but I like Infiltration Lens.

>>43612457
Bludgeon Brawl doesn't turn creatures into equipment.

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>>43611441
Fun cards you say?

Here's one that's going in my mizzix

>2015
>still no legendary UR artificer
Mishra's close but I don't want to run black

>>43612777
Might want to reread Vesuva, then Dark Depths, and then figure out why it doesn't work like you think it does unlike Thespian Stage.

>>43612777
Doesnt work with vesuva, since it enters with the counters

>>43611523
>>43612457
Mycosynth Lattice + Bludgeon Brawl + Vulshok Battlemaster + Golem-Skin Gauntlets

Assemble a literal voltron by equipping the entire world to Battlemaster then swinging.

Can somebody explain to me why people play edh? I understand that it's because you find it fun, but why do you find it fun? Why is it more fun to durdle with bad cards than to just win? I've never gotten a good answer from the casuals at my store and this genuinely confuses me.

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>>43612457
Use pic related to find Magnetic Theft. #combocity

Real talk though, what's the best stuff to find with Sunforger? I'm running it in a Voltron build so the only things I can think of are Gods Willing and its brethren.

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>>43613022
Don't forget these

Make the Battlemaster an EMPRESS

>>43613064
Boros Charm?

>>43612777
You still might to run black anyways for Vampire Hexmage, AEther Snap, and Thief of Blood.

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>>43611441
Obligatory "New Commander Pls Halp" post.
I'm currently fairly satisfied with the abuse of Grave Pact effects, but I have a few maybes that I'm not sure what to swap in order to test them first.

>>43613040
I like building a deck with a character at the helm. It feels right. Memedern, Legacy, and standard are all limited in what you can actually play. Sure, I can build a thematic Legacy deck, but as soon as I sit down across from a real legacy deck, it's not even a game. It's not only being able to play with a bunch of "shitty" cards, but being able to win with that like of shit.

>>43613150
Forgot the link:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meren-back-sac-and-pact/

>>43613040
Spike pls go

>>43613064
Master Warcraft is possibly the best thing you can rip off of a Sunforger.

>>43613040
For me it's about trying to solve an ever-changing puzzle. You try to make your deck consistent enough to win, but flexible enough to adapt to the infinite possible board states you'll be up against. You try to figure out whether you need to remove a threat, or whether another player will do it if you let it go. You try to guess which players are more dangerous than they seem. To use your tools the right way, not waste anything.

Plus you get to use all sorts of cards you wouldn't use otherwise. Having uncommon or unexpected cards is pretty useful, because your opponents will usually pack answers for things that are staples but not for weirder things. And there's enough variance due to the size of the decks, that you can afford a couple of subpar card choices just because you happen to like them. (Maybe less so, if your playgroup is more competitive.)

>>43613064
Mistveil Plains

I run
>Arcbond
>Boros Charm
>Chaos Warp
>Pyroblast
>Return to Dust
>Wild Ricochet
>Angels Grace

Generally works pretty well.

>>43611441
How do you go about including fun jank in your decks? The temptation is always strong to optimize the deck, and taking out a staple to fit in some jank can feel awful.

I'm a big fan of Limited so what I do is, whenever a card wins me a Draft or Sealed, or if I lose but feel like that cards was a bomb and almost got me there, I have to throw that card in an EDH deck. No way around it. If I win a draft or sealed, one of my EDH decks is getting some shiny new jank.

Had to take out an Angel of Serenity to fit Alhammarret High Arbiter in my Ephara deck. Objectively a bad switch, but what the hell, Alhammarret won me a prerelease.

>>43613373
Ooh. Awesome. I did throw a Reiterate in there because I had one, but Wild Ricochet makes a lot more sense.

Solid stuff. Thanks! Also I don't know why I don't have a Boros Charm, holy crap.

>>43612041

Except it's a hardcore Nonbo with the snek commander

>>43612093
Skullclamp, Skullclamp and Skullclamp.
Enlightened Tutor to find your Skullclamp.
I guess you can run Staff of Nin
Mind's Eye is cool with Sun Titan
Hedron archive is fine too if you have a high curve
Outpost Siege and Prophetic Flamespeaker because why not.

>>43613472
Easy. Make it work. You can have a perfect machine with imperfect parts. Usually for me, that means a commander, but in the case of other cards, you can build a foundation.

I guess my big thing was that I railways wanted to use Pyromancers Gauntlet and never had a chance. One day I said fuck it, and built a Chandra burn control deck. It's not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

>>43613550
>Mind's Eye with Sun Titan
Meant Mind Stone.

>>43613064
My usual package is

- At least one white creature removal (Swords, Path).
- At least one artifact/enchantment removal (Return to Dust, Wear // Tear, etc.)
- At least one permanent removal (Oblation, Chaos Warp)
- At least one counterspell (More efficient in builds with blue, but at least Lapse of Certainty)
- Enlightened Tutor
- At least one protection spell (Boros Charm, Valorous Stance)

With that said, my current Aurelia is:
- Swords
- Chaos Warp
- Unexpectedly Absent
- Return to Dust
- Wear // Tear
- Wild Ricochet
- Enlightened Tutor
- Lapse of Certainty
- Boros Charm
- Valorous Stance

I'd run Tithe if I had it, too.

>>43613553
Good jank and Limited bombs can actually perform surprisingly well in EDH. Back to the Alhammarret example, I found that people don't want to blow him up, ever, because you're locking down every opponents' best spell and though they're tempted to spend the removal to get their spell back, they don't want to do so at the cost of giving the other two guys theirs back. I can't hope to win the game with Alhammarret, it's not a Consecrated Sphinx, but it provides good value and doesn't draw removal. Often times it will further my control game plan more than if I'd played Consecrated Sphinx, because the latter would just eat a removal spell right away.

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>>43613585
>>43613064
>>43613119
>>43613310
>>43613373
I find your lack of Final Fortune disturbing, it's like you don't want to go #YOLO all or nothing we settling this now bitches.

Also, Boil and red blasts. When are you ever playing at a table where those aren't good?

>>43612093
Slate of Ancestry, Seer's Sundial, Mask of Memory, Loreseeker's Stone, Jalum Tome, Ichor Wellspring, Skullclamp, Sadbot, motherfucking Top


There's probably dozens of better ones, but those are just the shit ones I know I use in my cheap budget-ass decks

>>43612093
Staff of Nin and Loreseeker's Stone

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>>43611523
>>43613022
>>43611545
>>43611742
SOMEONE SAY STUPID COMBOS?

>>43613732
I love that combo

My lfgs is having a tournament where we all use the new unmodified precons, which one is the strongest?

>>43613040
it's less about the result (winning) and more about the method (madness)

EDH is the format for people who like doing silly things in magic more than they like winning. that's why you have people who try their damnedest to take some $1 junk rare from kamigawa and break the hell out of it.

I mean, nobody plays mario kart just to get the fastest time and be the undisputed king, they play it to throw turtle shells at each other. the whole somebody winning and being 1st place thing is the goal, but it's not the actual attraction

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>>43613732
Sup?
???
Prophet

>>43613991

The red blue deck has the most powerful commander (mizzix) and the most powerful single (mizzix's mastery) but that in no way means its the best deck altogether out of the box

They all look pretty strong but I'd guess the red white one looks best out of the box

>>43614032
i dont get it

>>43613040
>Why is it more fun to durdle with bad cards than to just win?
You will never understand, I can tell from this sentence. But >>43614026 is pretty much right.

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>>43614026
>it's less about the result (winning) and more about the method (madness)
>(madness)

>>43614056
You can pay 1 to cast a creature from your GY. Rooftop storm makes all the zombies cost 0, conspiracy makes small your creatures everywhere zombies, prophet let's you cast creatures at instant speed letting you cast a big Eldrazi from the GY with the shuffle on the stack.

>>43614026
Mario Kart is a near perfect comparison, well done

>>43614049
RW is the weakest out of the box. WB/GB > RB/GB > RW

>>43613585
Makes sense. I had no idea Lapse of Certainty was a thing. How annoyingly out-of-color.

I gotta look for a Valorous Stance. Oof.

>>43613632
Oh boy. I'd play this for sure.

>>43614105
if you have rooftop storm and conspiracy in play why can't you just cast them from your hand like normal? Why are they even in your graveyard?

>>43614110

You think the WB one looks strong out of the deck? With the constellation stuff?

I guess so

I don't like either of the WB commanders abilities unless you get to fully build around them

>>43613040
It's all about the journey not the destination mang. EDH is the zen-est of the MTG formats.

so what do you think of sage of fables or novijen sages in newzuri?

>>43613040
Remember when you were a Timmy just getting into Magic, and you'd see some big dumb fuckin' creature and say, "oh, shit, if I ever managed to cast this fucker it would be so sick!"

But then you got good and started playing Standard or Modern and stopped playing stuff over CMC 4?

EDH is the format that lets you use those cards the way you always wished you could.

>>43614199
Long game.

You could make a mill deck, have cards that toss your own out, as long as you have Havengul Lich out, cast their own abilities like mad and in a pinch, cast Emrakul.

The other main game is that you double cast insanely powerful creatures for instant slamming, which would allow you to basically, if you're retardedly lucky, get the cards you need within 9 or 10 rounds and basically get out a shit ton of monsters that your opponent can't block and can't stop with their own creatures since you're pulling out 2 a turn instead of 1. And if you got lich? You got access to all their abilities.

Its stupidly OP and I don't think I've ever seen a deck like it used in a tournament before. Would be fucking hilarious.

>>43613040
>to durdle with bad cards

Nobody does that though unless they're actively making a deck to just shit around with.

I accidentally put a lot of artifact support in a deck, and now I can't imagine a deck without that? What do I do now, /edh/? I feel like all my decklists are 30-40 lands +the good mana rocks, seer's sundial, mind's eye, staff of nin, coercive portal

>>43614515
>and in a pinch, cast Emrakul.
>in EDH
I've seen Havengul Lich do some bonkers shit in games, my man, but you don't need it and Prophet and Eldrazi for that. You just need Prophet and Eldrazi.

>>43614611
I did that once, so then I made a deck that focused on blowing up artifacts. Splash green and put in all the ramp you can manage, take out ALL the rocks, and put in mass artifact destruction.

It's not very smart, but it's very liberating.

>>43614636

>it's not very smart

Depends on the meta

Having all your ramp be land based is a huge advantage in an artifact heavy meta because you dodge all the artifact removal and are free to use blowouts like babe of progress

>>43614503
Novijen Sages and graft creatures are nice. But I guess if you only want the draw Sage is better because it requires less counters. And it triggers Newzuri.

>>43614700
Yup, that's true. With such a deck (which would, naturally, include blowouts like Bane of Progress) would definitely be meta-sensitive. I find it's a lot of fun, though, and really it doesn't have to be the primary theme.

>>43613732
>>43611545
>>43611742
STUPID COMBOS? YOU WANT STUPID COMBOS? FUCK ALL THE SPELLS FOREVER.

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>>43614819
FORGOT THE IMAGE. HERE GO.

>>43614819
>>43614850

And I told myself I would never build WUR
HAH

>>43613040

I play to win in edh

I don't ever purposely durdle with bad cards. I try to make all my edh decks as powerful as possible within my budget

If you mean that the cards are bad in legacy, so why do we play them in edh? Well that's retarded, every competitive game has different formats for exactly this reason, a card is only good within a format, outside of that, there's no context

Singleton is just different, it lets us play to win but use higher cmc cards and slower strategies because the decks are too inconsistent for most turn 1-3 combos (nobody reply to this talking about hermit Druid, I've played with and against it, wouldn't call it "consistent" by legacy and modern standards at all)

>>43614850
Sundial is fucking insane. I can't believe they put that in a core set

>>43611581
>Eldrazi Conscription as Equipment
Oh God that's terrifying

>>43613064
punish ignorence

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What's your pet card?
I like pic related because its just the right kind of creepy

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>>43614503
>>43614729
I'm considering adding Sage of Fables for my Wizardcycling package. Cycle Vedalken AEthermage, search either Sage of Hours, Fathom Mage, Glen Elendra Archmage, Master Biomancer, Master of Waves, Silumgar Sorcerer, Sower of Temptation, Venser, Shaper Savant, or Zameck Guildmage.

>>43615230
>wizardcycling
They should have done more cards with that idea. Demoncycling, spiritcycling, that would be neat. Just like transmute.

>>43615262
Future Sight had a lot of cool ideas they should really follow up on. Fateseal, Gravestorm, Transfigure, and [Type]cycling. They're probably real hesitant to use any of them after they fucked up Delve so bad.

>guys what if we put Delve
>are you listening
>guys listen
>what if we put Delve
>LISTEN
>let's put Delve, right
>let's put Delve on Ancestral Recall
>wouldn't that be fucking hilarious?

>>43614850
This is actually hilarious.

>>43614954
So wait, equipping an aura bestows the "enchanted creature" effects to the equipped creature??

>>43615328
Gravestorm is kinda dangerouns just like any Storm but I am really mad the Sultai mechanic wasn't Transfigure. I mean, c'mon sac a creature to get another of same CMC that seems pretty Sultai.

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Did someone say stupid combos?

>>43615364

No but you can equip the same creature

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>>43615205
lik dis if u cri evertim

>>43614850
>ask the player to name every card and put it on a piece of paper on every Meddling Mage
Maybe he'll forget something.

Daily reminder that if you aren't on Pucatrade.com you're a scrub and you should be. You immediately get $5 worth or points just for signing up, which means FREE CARDS!

You can sign up here and you'll get a gift from me as well. Be sure to verify your phone number though: https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/110587

>>43615398
Switch control with Bazaar Trader and speak like him. "How about this Mesa Chicken, very fancy!"

>>43615442
There's a Temple of Epiphany coming from the USA for me, I wonder if the shipping wasn't bigger than the points the guy will earn.

>>43615466
Ehh, I do that sometimes too(ship things for more then they're worth) mostly because I just want the points anyways.

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>>43615442
Marketed hard boi

>>43615426
>"I'll make you a bet, anon."
>"I'll name every card in the game from memory. If I miss a single card, or I give a name that doesn't exist as a card, you get my deck."
>"If I win, I get your deck."

Do you take the bet?

>>43615511
Every time, no questions.

Speaking of new Ezuri, if you don't pick up Deranged Hermit relatively soon you're fucking silly.

>>43615511
What happens if I lose?

>>43615511
yes. by the time he actually recites that many cards, oath of the gatewatch will be out and he'll have missed the new cards that were released with it.

>>43615511
Obviously after clarifying he means every card in the game of Magic: The Gathering, from Alpha to present day. No one likes a smartass who goes naming regular playing cards and pretends he won on a technicality.

>>43615328

Fateseal is a mechanic that would be basically impossible to have as a set mechanic. The standard block it was in would become a fucking nightmare.

[Type]cycling and Transfigure are better mechanics, although the main problem there is that Wizards doesn't like having mechanics that require a shitton of deck-searching because that plays into the game-length issue. There's probably something stupid broken you can do with gravestorm, too.

GRANDEUR, though, that's a Future Sight mechanic I'd like to see come back.

>>43615578
Fuck that's right Grandeur. Or give us whatever the hell they had in mind with assembling contraptions.

>>43615578
kamigawa 2.0 legends matter: the revisiting

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>>43615505

>>43615602

I think it'd be pretty easy to swing in a wild west or Arthurian inspired plane, too. Anywhere there's a lot of legends being born as people do great deeds.

>>43615578
>>43615599
how do you explain granduer from a flavor perspective?

I bought the red precon from last year. What are some good substitutions to make? Considering using Bosh or Feldon, I've heard good things about them in here

>>43615650
The most famous spell/deed of the character? So famous seeing it reminds you of their name.

>>43615640
Does that mean we get a legendary common finally. It should be a goblin.

>>43615578
What's so wrong with fateseal?

>>43615657
Hey alright, probably from me, I'm a huge fan of both Feldon and Daretti.
Just off the top of my head for Daretti
Mind stone
Alhamarets Archive
Scuttling doom engine
Hoarding Dragon
Summoner's Egg
Ring of Three Wishes
Your favorite of the dual colored swords
Burnished Hart

I hope you like artifacts anon.

>>43611517
Wouldn't Voidslime work as well?

>>43614850
I"m gonna fucking build this.

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>>43615729
Anon, I...

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>>43615406
That fucking card, man, every time

>>43615398
You don't even need Zedruu or Bazaar Trader for that, do you?

>>43616027
>Or

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>>43615406
Has this card achieved meme status or is there really an anon who can't get over that stupid flavor text? There are a ton of cards with sad flavor text, and most don't include homeless beggars.

If you feel bad for bums, you've obviously never met one.

>>43616051
Oh shit, I misinterpreted

>>43616081
Kamigawa is flavor central

Same it's going to be ruined when they inevitably decide to revisit it

>>43615511
Depends what's in his deck and depends what's in my deck.

oh goodness I just bought the UG deck today. I played it once as it was out of the box just for lels, and damn, what the fuck is wth 41 lands and all that ramp?

anyway, I hit my house and dug through my cards real fast to see what I wanted to add, and boy if newzuri sticks for even a turn or two he makes an impact
>1HKO the guy who tapped out with a putrefax
>swinging with a 15/15 looter il-kor
>proliferate a guy to death with viral drake and inexorable tide

with a little more fine tuning I think I'm going to like this deck quite well. the only foreseeable problem is if they hold spot removal for ezuri before I can get my first few counters

>>43616187
Ezuri is by far the strongest of the new commanders which is incredible because there's a commander with a built in cost reduction.

He combos with literally anything ever. It's obnoxious.

>>43616238
>Ezuri
>Not Karlov

>>43616254
xD

>>43615814
I like them so far. I'm leaning more towards Bosh though, I like burn and he seems super fun for it

>>43616238
Karlov is easily the strongest of the new commanders.

OG Ezuri would be stronger then the new one even.

>>43616299

Karlov seems like a legit creature-killer, but is there anything special about him I'm missing? Doesn't he just grow and then use the tokens to exile creeps?

>>43616292
I haven't built for him, can't help you there.
I have a hard time keeping him on the field and he's pretty pricey at 8.
I did get to the point where I could chuck around Spine of Ish Sah once on a fluke, that was great fun.

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>>43616112
>Shame it's going to be ruined when they inevitably decide to revisit it
You can't retroactively ruin something that's already been released.

Besides, original Kamigawa was canonically thousands of years ago. It will and should look a lot different next time around.

Personally, I'd love to see the spirits and arcane stuff set in an industrial-era Kamigawa.

>>43616333
21 commander damage is super easy, and he's removal on a stick.

Look at it like this.

Ezuri and a bunch of his creatures VS Karlov and his creatures.

Ezuri adds +1/+1 counters to the fight, then even if he gives the creature unblockable Karlov just exiles the threat.

Karlov is much safer, much cheaper, and faster.

best mana rocks excluding sol ring?

>>43616517
Legal in commander.

Mana crypt obviously.

Mana vault would be a close second I would think.

>>43616517
Chronatog Totem

>>43611441
Do you place any flavor/power handicaps on yourself while deckbuilding?

I don't use cards that don't exist in the modern border for non-competitive decks.

>>43616380
>>43616238
>>43616254

>Ezuri
>karlov

Sorry guys, I'm pleasantly surprised with Ezuri and karlov both, but it's obvious that mizzix is the most powerful new commander, there's a decent chance it will be banned to be honest

>Mizzix
>not Mazirek

get combo'd, scrubs

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>>43616655
>thinking the RC will ever ban the precon commanders

>>43616380

There's nothing safe about a general with no evasion and a strategy that revolves around putting +1/+1 counters on itself

>>43616635
I never use Eldrazi cards and only use Phyrexian where flavor-appropriate. A few of my commanders including Liliana have undoubtedly encountered Phyrexian tech so that's alright in doses.

I also try to avoid cramming too many legendaries into a single deck, and prefer cards with generic names. For example, Grave Pact sounds so much nicer than Butcher of Malakir or Dictate of Erebos.

>>43616655
Not a fucking chance mate.

Niv is better, the Izzit maze runner is better. Sure she's better then the flying duo but that's not saying much.

>>43616696
Oh yeah, I forgot how hard it was to clear a path in B/W. And how useless exiling creatures is.

My bad.

>>43616675

Mazirek is strong but the combos are even stronger for mizzix

>>43616734

I never said the bw commander is useless or bad at all, I'm just saying that "safe" is the last word I would use to describe it, safe is sigarda voltron, or derevi (no commander tax)

I guess it's "safe" in the sense that you can't wrong with a removal on a stick general

>>43614199
>Emrakul
>COUNTERSPELL!
>Sure, his trigger goes in the stack, I play him from the graveyard.
>FORCE OF WILL!
>Sure, his trigger goes in the stack, I play him from the graveyard.
That day, the Vendillion Clique player had an aneurism and finally died.

>>43615765
It's scry, but instead of helping your plan by eliminating your dead draws you're hindering the opponent's by trying to make their draws dead. It slows down games instead of speeding them up.

E.g. Modern Lantern Control is the apotheosis of this mentality (even though it doesn't use the Fateseal keyword), and it's boring as fuck to play as, against or even watch.

>>43616788
Yeah I meant being able to exile threats is a lot safer then being able to pump a creature before you attack.

Also B/W is a pretty "safe" color combo all around.

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What are some of the oddly-good cards in some of your decks?

I put wall of frost in my Nekusar deck for some simple commander protection early game. It's strangely done wonders for me.

>>43616715

Dude Niv only barely competes with mizzix because of the curiosity combo being so simple

Otherwise it's entirely in favor of mizzix who can combo any number of ways

I don't think you guys have really examined what you can do with discounted spells, you can't help but combo out, and the colors are perfect for it

>>43616789
>Emrakul ever going to the graveyard

good job

>>43616830
The problem is that it can't discount the colors.

And the fact that you need to go up in CMC each time makes it worse.

Most izzit spell based combos are colored mana intensive.

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>>43616825
>What are some of the oddly-good cards in some of your decks?
When I've got spare Mana, I can either drop down a few 1/1's who benefit from my cards which enhance both Red and White creatures.
Or I can just increase everything's power, which people sometimes forget about.

>>43616847
>This nigga has never played Instant Reanimator in Modern.

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>>43616655
>>43616254
>>43616238
>>43616380
>tfw R/W player
H-hey, double strike on our commander, though, right guys? And she gets bigger! That'll be really useful in c-combat, right guys?
Honestly probably going to buy it anyway if I have the cash just because a few of the individual cards look really cool and it'll be convenient to get all the giant tribal stuff in one package

>>43616789
>Playing Emrakul from the graveyard.
What? I'm missing something here

>>43612829
I like it.
I was playing around with it in a Odric build that I recently took apart. It was pretty rad there.

>>43616981
>What? I'm missing something here
Yep, Havengul Lich.
Look further back in the conversation.

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>>43616789
>emrakul
>COUNTERSPELL!
Try reading the first line of emrakul's rules text

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>>43616960
I'm buying it for Gisela, Anya, Angel of Serenity and Sun Titan and because I don't hava Command Tower, Sol Ring or a Signet but you've no idea how disappointed I am by this thing. Seriously, fuck whoever made these garbage commanders.

>>43616997
I frequently just slap it on my commander, Iroas.
Unless they have some way of avoiding his damage, they either block with 2 critters and I get 4 cards, or they take at least 7 commander damage.

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>friend is fairly new to MTG
>bought the BW precon to play in our group
>his face when I drop a Wrath

He was so mad, meanwhile the other players just took it as normal

I don't think he knows cards like that exist. I don't know what he'll do if I use MLD

>>43617007
Ahh, that'll do it

You still can't counter Emrakul though, unless you drop a Mindbreak

>>43617047
>New people are shocked at the existence of Wrath
Big fucking surprise

>>43617047
A newbie's face when he sees his first cyclonic rift is always priceless. 97% of the time the word "bullshit" will come out of his or her mouth.

>>43616863

You don't need to go up in cmc each time though, if the first couple spells you cast are at least 2 or 3 cmc you will get 3 permanent counters and that's all you will need the whole game, as you said, it doesn't reduce colored costs so you don't need more than 1-3 counters, any more than that is just gravy for X spells

Lots of blue red combos can happen when your time warps and turnabouts and cost the same as a counterspell

>>43617130
I still don't see how She'll be strong enough to contend. But more will come with time.

>>43617111
Signed up but never got a verification email.

>>43614850
You do realize that rather than being a dick and forcing your opponents into a "you can't play anything, ever" situation, you could just win on the spot, right? You're producing an arbitrary number of creatures with haste and nonzero power.

>>43617065
Or activate a Sundial of the Infinite. That card has saved my ass more than once.

>>43617215
did they try to flash emrakul in on your turn while you had sundial untapped? because it says activate it only on your turn

Guys which of these gorgeous foils should be the commander of my U/G/x deck

My idea for both decks is pretty similar, it's a UGx control deck that either wins through equipped commander (jenara + Silverblade paladin + Stoneforge mystic, etc) or hasted tramplers (Surrak + xenagod)

I like the removal and board wipes I get in bant colors, but the red haste enablers are cool and it also gives me stuff like dualcaster Mage to add an interesting twist on UG/x control

>>43617214

What is the most hilarious creature to do this with? I'm trying to figure out what infinite horde is the funniest.

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>>43617264

Forgot picture!!!

>>43617280
Storm Crow. Show them winter unending.

>>43617209
Sometimes it takes a minute or two.

>>43616847
How bout ya read his text box again you fucking dummy.

>>43617321
Okay, I got it.
https://pucatrade.com/profiles/show/111152

Honestly never used the site but heard great things about it.

>>43617287
>>43617264
Jenara is better.

>>43617287
Surrak

Go fast turn left fuck shit up, especially if you get haste on everything

Are any of the precons fun to play? I'm not talking "Yeah this is alright", I'm talking CMD14 red precon tier "oh my god I'm having so much fun my precon can't possibly be this sexy".

Lets talk about shitty moments with Rules Sharks or shitty people who don't understand the rules again. I liked it last time.

>Playing EDH with L0 Rules Advisor
>They Talk about it a lot (they're a judge now)
>She plays several planeswalkers and keeps harping on about retaining priority and using their effects.
>We understand this rule already
>We Usually kill the Planeswalkers during the end step of her turn because efficient mana usage.
>I Chord for a Tidespout Tyrant using some tokens to try and end the game
>She tries to doom blade it in response to it ETBing
>Tells her the same shit we just heard about planeswalkers and how i retain priority until I do something.
>she gets angry and storms off cursing about how the rules are shitty.

Why are people such idiots

>>43617382

Yeah my friend has a xenagod deck that is very scary, it goes real fast and turns left on us

I'd want my Surrak deck to have flashes of that but more as a late game thing when I think I have control of the board, before that Ima be ramping and countering and removing my way to a nice empty board when Surrak hits

Jenara has been different in testing. She hits the board early to take advantage of the lack of flying blockers. And the control develops alongside of her. If all goes well I swing right out with her, unblocked for all 21 damage, but most of the time it wins without her, through some kind of recursion combo

>>43617448

>the current year
>lacking a Y chromosome

Fucking poorfags

>>43617215
>Sundial
>Activate this ability only during your turn.

How is this countering Emrakul?

>>43617418
Right out the box? Probably the U/R or B/G
Some guy said the U/G is really fun if you tweak it a little.

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I play Death By Dragons

targeting YOU

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>>43617600
Cool, my turn? I cast my commander, pic related.

>>43617631
And on my turn I cast Clone and copy Karrthus.

>>43617448
Gives rules advisers like me a bad name.

I generally try to keep the rules working, but I'm never a hard ass about it.

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Goddamnit Phyrexian Arena makes Sensei's Diving Top more nasty.

>>43617668
>You a blue player survived a turn with Karrthus and 3+ other 5/5 or greater dragons attacking you?

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>>43617631

Fuck you Kaiba

>>43617691

Try dark confidant with sensei's top, it's a lot of fun

>>43617111
Can I somehow check if someone has a card I want and ask for it?
The waiting game is shit.

I kinda want to play Mizzix because I have never actually sued straight up UR, but I already have Jeleva. The two seem like they would play very similarly to one another because my Jeleva had the standard time walks and the rest of the deck is mostly Modal bounce/kill spells to control the board and bounce Jeleva to keep digging. Am I wrong? Because I can really only imagine one way to play UR spell slinging.

>>43617668
>Implying you survive all those dragons attacking you.

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>>43617696
bruh blue has best fog

>>43617696
>>43617715
Joke's on you, I was UG this entire time and I cast Arachnogenesis when you attacked.

Arachnogenesis really is one of my favorite cards from C15.

>>43617111
Shit like this just worries me. Mailing shit to random addresses is just asking for fuck ups.

>>43617724
>>43617732
>>43617668
>Implying the Kaarthus player isn't attacking the faggot who tapped out for DBD and dared to target him with it.

>>43617631
How do you even make those colors work together?

>>43617761
JUND EM' OUT!

>>43617761
Ramp and black work really well together.

Just add red value.

>>43617761
Token spam and sac effects.

Alternatively, ramp into Fatties and X spells.

Alternatively to that, suicide aggro.

>>43617761
>He doesn't know how to Jund 'Em Out

>>43617710

You're not wrong

Jeleva and mizzix have some stuff In common in terms of what goes in the 99

Idk what your practice is, but I'm the type of player that doesn't mind taking apart a deck that I love, and building a deck that's similar but different, maybe in color identity if not in general strategy

There are only 9 mtg decks
For commander it's different but you get the point. The nuances of execution are fun to explore, even when you're using familiar cards and familiar tactics

>>43617761

Dude jund is like the quintessential tri color deck

You ramp and remove your way to midrange victory

Blue's worst nightmare really

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>>43617732
spider fog is god tier fog.

I'm a fog expert trust me.

>>43617911

No question it's the best fog ever in my mind, and it has some tough competition from constant mists

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>>43617761
>How do you even make those colors work together?

Oh my friend, you have so much to learn.

Played two games of Commander today, both as monored.

First was my newly made Purphoros deck, because fuck point systems.
>order the entire deck off tcgplayer
>all three separate packages arrive today by some miracle
>but I forgot to order Purph
>go buy him
>later, the game starts
>Kruphix, Animar, Sliver Overlord and Mimeoplasm
>don't draw into enough token makers, Kruphix floats 170 mana because Prophet, hastily kill the other players before he BSZs me for 107

Game Two, this time as Ashling the Pilgrim
>a Darretti player joined, Mimeo became Oloro
>Draw into a nice hand
>turn six or so pyromancer's goggles a mana geyser
>play Godo, fetch collar, play Ashling equip and explode all while I have a Dictate of the Twin Gods out
>gain some sixty life I think
>meanwhile the Oloro player has played Venser's Journal, Font of Mythos and Rhystic Study
>is sitting on a comfortable 20+ cards in hand
>I have Molten Psyche in hand
>about to copy it with Pyromancer's
>accidentally discard it to my own effect, no worries I've got Library of Leng
>sliver player plays Living Death, Darretti plays Scrap Mastery for no reason
>time's up, went from a winning move to a defeat because I accidentally discard
Never trust random discards kids.

>>43617860
I get you. The problem is that Jeleva is still fairly new. On top of that, I had wanted to build it since its release, but held back because my group had a hate boner for Jeleva because the exile was flat out annoying. Recently, I just said fuck it, and I love it.

I do the same thing you do and take apart decks just for something different. My mono red is my best example. At its core, it's Ashling, but it's been Akroma, Jeska, Kamhal, Zozu, and right now it's Chandra.

Maybe if I want to use the black in the deck, I'll switch to Melek/Mizzix, but Jeleva is too fun atm.

Funny enough, I'm almost in the same boat with BG, though thankfully my current BG is a-typical. I just don't know how I feel about 2 decks of the same combination.

Why do people defend Sheldon to keep the format?

>>43617737
Nothing should go wrong as long as you properly secure and mail the cards.

>>43618082
Because there's this expectation that without that shitter, the format will effectively become German Highlander.

>>43618082
They wish for a force that makes minimal moves rather than Wizards which would bend the format to whatever form they choose.

I want to make a Zedruu Crappy Santa deck. What are the absolute shittiest artifacts and enchantments I can gift out? Either those or things that are guaranteed to make people lose once I gift them.

>>43617737
Simple white envelope mail is surprisingly more likely to arrive to it's destination without bullshit than professional shipping in my experience.

>>43618119
>German Highlander
I looked this up and it's just singleton

What the fuck

>>43618162
Singleton 100 using a banlist more similar to the Vintage list than to the EDH list.

>>43618133
DELAYING SHIELD

Eat an enormous amount of damage to give it counters then gift it to someone not running white. Bang, insta-loss

>>43618119
>>43618125
And how much people support Sheldon? is it 50-50? Because I do want that fucker out, I've been reading about him.

>>43618183
Again, what the fuck

Why even bother

>>43618198
The most offensive thing Sheldon has done is the tuck rule change which I'm a fan of as there is already a normal highlander format.

His opinions are absolutely fucking awful and he's a terrible human being but he's not as bad as Wizards.

>>43618201
Germans, yo.

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>>43617932
okay /tg/ rank dem fogs

Dawn charm
Glacial Crevasses
Sunstone
Spore Frog/Kami of the False Hope
Mirror Match
Arachnogenesis
Darkness

What is the best fog effect in commander?

>>43618311
You're missing a ton of other Fogs.

>>43618311
Angus Mackenzie

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>>43618375
add whatever

I'm voting for Dawn charm

I love dawn charm.

>>43618311
Moment's Peace, natch.

I like Mirror Match a lot. Fog + any ETB triggers off your opponent's creatures, plus your own possible triggers for a bunch of creatures entering the battlefield.

>>43618311
>Doesn't even mention Constant Mists

Constant Mists
Haze Frog
Sudden Spoiling
Spike Weaver
Angel of the Dire Hour
Comeuppance
Batwing Brume

There's a shit ton more

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Have to cut two cards, any suggestions which?

>>43614850
What does Sundial do here?

>>43618657
Prevents the mage tokens from dying at eot.

>>43618657
Nothing, because you have an arbitrary number of creatures with haste, and should have won already.

>>43618732
But le so funny lockout combo xDDD

So I'm gonna shill my MODO EDH channel here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBmnc0TsjlB3uXNOtxP40tA

I've been at it for almost half a year know on and off in the past but my new job in China affords me a lot of time to make videos so I'm putting up one to two videos daily.

I've got gauntlets where I deck tech a general and run it through some 1v1 games; the current gauntlet is with Daretti, Scrap Savant as seen here in one of my better and more fun games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbh8nsO2dNc

I'm about halfway done with uploading the games for him and then I'll move onto another general. If you're not a fan of 1v1, I am starting to branch into Multiplayer.

>>43618743

>>43593298

>>43618689
I see. You could just do it in response to anything though. The only vulnerability is split second and opponents piling up things on the stack in response to Kiki's ability.

>>43618311
Have you tried Fog?

>>43618637
The General being Nin?

>>43618833
Yes.

>>43618637
i dont see storm crow soo
you gotta cut 3 cards

>>43618637
How does one win? through some sort of combination without no end that i just can't see?

Or just fuckin Niv-mizzle and psychosis crawler.

>>43618917
>Or just fuckin Niv-mizzle and psychosis crawler.
And Tezzeret's -5.

>>43615426
prints a list with every card of magic... and has it included into the deck box

>>43618637

easy 2 card cuts

cut nin and make firemind your commander, then cut that creature that adds mana to your mana pool. unnecessarily fragile mana rock

>>43618747
Why would anyone play on magic online when Cockatrice exists?

So, red mages. Do you run burn spells? I know most people they are bad because they're inefficient at killing large shit, but I honestly have never found a single time when even a Lightning Bolt was bad. It kills so many commanders and so many utility creatures.

Am I insane?

>>43619087
Both are really bad ideas, but thanks for your input.

>>43619100
Because they have disposable income and enjoy drafting with people who aren't complete pieces of shit?

>>43619100
Because drafting on using draft.wtf and Cockatrice is only slightly above ripping your own teeth out with pliers.

>>43619125
>people who aren't complete pieces of shit
Clearly never played on modo.

>>43619119
Why are cutting the mana rock creatures a bad idea when they're... just not good?
Not even metalworker is very good in your deck. with only 32 artifacts

>>43619156
Because they are very good and 2 cmc mana artifacts are the most important part of the deck and metalworker is insanely good.

>>43619156

Thanks for agreeing with me

Artifact mana dork is silly

But also, the deck is built like an optimized Niv mizzet fire mind deck, so why not just do the thing where your deck becomes 100x better

>>43619107
I'm not really up on what's out there these days, but generally speaking you can do more with a creature or an enchantment than you can with a burn. Burns usually lower card advantage for dubious gains, and there's a lot of target immunity available anyway. Plus, most red creatures have built-in burn anyway.

>>43619178
Because then my general would be 100% useless until the turn I'm comboing off which also happens to be the turn where I draw through my entire deck and draw niv anyway. And since my general would be useless in the rare cases where I don't draw into any draw 7 spells naturally I wouldn't be able to use nin as a draw engine and would lose the game.

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>>43615205
Never underestimate the power of a serf when Butcher's Cleaver and Cobbled Wings are on the field.

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Why is Thromok the most horrifying commander in existence?
>Play mostly token creation all game.
>Suddenly, Insurrection.
>Thromok enters the field and devours everyone's creatures, the tokens, and Anger or something like that.
>Most likely has doubling season or Primal Vigor on the board.
>Gigantic God-Emperor of Dune kills someone in one go.
>Next turn Chandra's Ignition.
>Everyone's dead.
>Mfw

>>43619125
>>43619144
>Paying for fake cardboard

moving my head back and forth in a way to simulate honesty, my family

>>43619257
>not realizing you can redeem the fake cardboard for real cardboard officially

But you're a dumb meme poster trying to evade a post filter so I don't expect much from you.

>>43619271
>the guy who posted about modo clearly plays only edh where you can't redeem old cards and the new cards even then only in x4 quantities

I swear, /tg/

>>43619291
And the two people you replied to very clearly said "draft".

Dumb. Meme. Poster.

>>43619257
Modo lets you redeem sets.

It also lets you qualify for things. and win money. if you're not a piece of shit.

>>43619257
>baka desu senpai
The name of the game is Pay to Play. The fake cardboard is a bonus.

>>43619107
I sometimes run Burn in my Boros deck. Blaze Commando and Shock gives me some damage and a free soldier.

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>>43618133

Celestial Dawn locks out an opponent if they don't have white in their commander. Otherwise it works as a color fixer for you.

>>43619210
I like nin more then Niv, so keep that... but. the mana dorks just don't look good at all.

I don't see how they can be any good when you already have a million pieces of artifact mana, and they're just terrible artifact mana. And Metalworker can't be that good when you seem to be emptying your hand of artifacts... and Metalworker does that once and is then useless.

>>43619332
There are no other two mana artifacts that I can play, metalworker consistently taps for 4-6 mana after a draw 7 spell.

>>43619249
I'm fairly sure if anyone say a Thromok player place his commander on the board, he'd become the fucking target of the table.

I'm running R/W boros tokens and I've got Dictate of Heliod and Glory of Warfare. I considered running Crusade as well but that helps enemies too.

Is there a Red Enchantment that boosts the damage of all of my creatures?

>>43619360
Gratuitous Violence straight makes them deal double damage,

>>43619387
Aw shit nigga you just made my day

>>43619360
There are many symmetrical damage doublers.

>>43619360
Berserker's Onslaught. Attacking creatures you control have double strike.

>>43619404
>>43619417
Shit guys my deck's gonna rock ass

>>43619360
It's not Red, but I'd grab Cathar's Crusade.
Every time any creature enters your battlefield, every creature you have gets a +1/+1 counter.

Also Legion's Initiative would be great.
It can't save your tokens from a wipe, but it can save the rest of them.

Also Gleam of Battle, which gives your creatures +1/+1 counters when they attack.

>>43619567
How do you keep track of what has what +/+ bonus when you have so many tokens? I try not to have anything that isn't a flat +1/+1 or similar to everything bonus if I can help it for my own convenience.

>>43619620
I use d6's for counters.
The other bonuses are usually pretty easy to remember.

>>43619620
Use dice for +1/+1 counters and nothing else. You just have to remember your anthems.

>>43619620
It can get a little annoying to play with anthem type effects, but with a few physical tokens and dice, you can save everybody a headache, even with pic related on the field.

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>>43619835
of course I forgot pic related

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>>43615205
Flavorful as fuck.

>>43611742
Wouldn't he die from having 0 toughness with no converted mana cost, or does he stop being an artifact creature?

>>43620711
No, you're right.
The Liquidmetal Coating makes target permanent and artifact until the end of the turn. Transforming Garruk doesn't stop him from still being the same permanent, and thus also still being an Artifact.

Xenograft doesn't change him away from being an Artifact, so when he's Garruk, the Veil-Cursed he's still an Artifact Creature Human.

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>Bust out Titania tonight for some stompy
>Strip Mine + Wasteland + Dustbowl some Bant playing nerd so hard he scoops and rages out
>Tell him since he had PoK out it was only fair he had 1/4th the lands everyone else did
>hfw

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I'm looking to buy Plunder the Graves.

But looking at the different decklists for Commander 2015 it looks like Swell the Host is by far the best value.

Am I wrong in this?
It just looks like it blows the others out of the water.

>>43620982
If you're looking for best value, buy singles.

If you're looking for best value and want to buy a deck despite it being retarded, look at which provides the most value to you for your commander plans. If you want to build a g/b deck, then g/b is probably better than u/g.

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>>43611517
You're my hero

So why isn't PoK banned? It fits basically every one of the retarded banning criteria for this format

>centralizes games
>everyone but the u/g/x player fucking hates it.
>if not taken care of, game quickly devolves into a shitfest
>encourages land destruction as a means of dealing with the asymmetry it creates.

I'm not saying Prophet of is a great card of anything, but it seems like a clear case of the unfunsies, and thus highly bannable in this format with their fun police mindset. Is it just because sheldon uses it?

>>43621090
It becomes THE singular target, it isn't really that powerful unless you're playing with retards.

>>43618311
I'm with the Moment's Peace guy.
>>43618444

Constant Mists has a high buyback price for the one deck I run fog in (not much land ramp) and if you need to cast fog more than twice you're doing something wrong.

>>43611517
ty slow internet connection, I got to see the all

>>43611517
I fucking love Decree of Annihilation for that cycling ability. Because it's the only instant-speed MLD (that I know of), you can crack fetchlands and then cycle on top of those.

>>43621090
Prophet, Deadeye, and Sphinx all fit the banning criteria, Sheldon just honestly does not give a fuck at this point.

>>43619107
I run Gut Shot in Heartless Hidetsugu to even the odds.

>>43621090
>Is it just because sheldon uses it?
Probably

>friend bitches endlessly after am overloaded Mizzium Mortars kills his token army
>goes after me the rest of the game
He had close to 20 flying deathtouchers out, I wanted to slap him

>>43620982
Swell the Host has Command Beacon.

A land that should be in pretty much every commander deck.

It'll have some value./

>>43615837
Yeah, that's fine. Decrees are triggered abilities.

>>43619844
Why even bother with the Crusade? You have infinite birds. Just play an instant.

>>43621107
So, if you're playing edh as intended, it is a problem. I agree entirely.

>>43621648
>not putting removal in your decks is "as intended"
I don't see that anywhere in the rules.

>>43621690
No, I agree that you should run removal.

But you specifically said prophet isn't a problem "unless you're playing with retards". And I agree with that entirely. Unfortunately, EDH is designed for retards, by retards. So Prophet is a big problem.

>>43619107
there was one time where I literally killed 2 players and almost killed the 3rd with a late game price of progress. if I had a fork or reverberate in my hand it would have been instant game over

>>43622091
How did you kill them with card board? Paper cuts? Why didn't anyone stop you?

>>43622119
if you grind the edge against an abrasive surface it can become quite sharp. it takes time and a careful hand but it's quite doable

>>43622119
He's never put a sharpened Magic card through someone's eye

Question time: if someone drops a Naturalize to pop an artifact, can I use Bosh's ability to throw the targeted artifact at them before the spell resolves?

Anybody know any good sites where I can trade english staples for foreign staples?

>>43622253
>inb4 Pucatrade shill

>>43622249
Yes

>>43622276
Oh boy

Fun times ahead

>>43622253
https://pucatrade.com/dashboard

You're welcome.

>>43622313
>>43622267
wew lad

>>43621722
I like your point. It also should be said that the fact Prophet of Kruphix immediately becomes the biggest target on the table and has three opponents trying to remove it is a testament to its ability to warp games. As has been said a million times before, a card turning a game into Archenemy doesn't make the card balanced, it means the card is really fucking powerful. I wish some day I'd stop hearing "the card is fine you guys, it turns the game 3v1 so someone will answer it" by people thinking that makes a goddamn lick of sense.

That said, I don't think Prophet is banworthy, people in general do need to run more removal in this format and learn to fucking interact. Still, I wouldn't be sad to see her go, she does nothing good to the format.

>>43617280
Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite

>>43622808
But there are tons of cards that should have 3 opponents trying to remove it.

>>43623005
Yes and that doesn't make them all banworthy. The point, what many people seem to miss, is really fucking simple.

Saying a card is balanced because it turns everyone against you, and everyone tries to remove it, is dumb. Really fucking dumb. Discuss what the actual card does, compare it to other cards if you'd like, but don't go "It's balanced because Archenemy", that is beyond retarded, it's the most tired argument you keep hearing in these threads after "dies to removal". This reasoning can apply to any goddamn card. "Both Primes are actually sort of weak, everyone tries to remove them and they turn everyone against you. Time Walk is fine, everyone hates extra turn so they'll target your ass. Black Lotus should be unbanned: if you win T1 with it, your next game will be 3v1."

>>43621365
Because infinite infinitely big birds is more fun?

>>43623043
All of the cards you mentioned give immediate value.

Prophet doesn't. Someone else can steal Prophet. Someone else can reanimate Prophet. Prophet doesn't do anything when it ETBs or dies. It's only a problem until someone casts removal.

>>43623105
And now you actually have valid points instead of just going "everyone will try to remove it hurr". Though none of that addresses what the card does when it isn't immediately removed, some point a lot of people seem to completely ignore because they live in a world where any semi-threatening permanent is removed immediately every time regardless of how many such permanents are played at the table every turn.

I don't think Prophet should be banned but what the card does when it survives even one turn is ridiculous. And yes, it will sometimes, when multiple players are tutoring for and cloning and reanimating and E.Witnessing and Body Doubling Prophets, then protecting them with counterspells (sometimes free ones like Misdirection / Force of Will), eventually, one sticks, and somehow that is a completely inconceivable scenario for some people here and they don't even bother discussing the card's effect because the possibility of it surviving longer than 5 seconds isn't even on their radar.