Exalted General /exg/ Ouroboros Trainwreck Edition

Can you use Peony Blossom Technique out of turn to clash? It's Reflexive...

Remember. Holden and Morke are liars.

>>43597069
Reminder: Holden and Morke are liars.

>>43597096

You're attacking someone on the same tick that they attack you, and it's not a Counterattack Charm, so I don't see why it wouldn't.

Really expensive, though.

>>43597096

Yes, because it does not have the Perilous Keyword.

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One of my players is playing a night caste ninja/assasin.
He would like an artifact ninjato.
He has expressed interest in evocations allowing him to generate fog as cover, and illusory copies of himself for distraction.
What type of material should this be?
Thoughts on how to do either of those things with evos?

>Heavenly Guardian Defense allows also the Solar to guard against damage deemed impossible to parry, such as unexpected attacks, hurled bolts of acid or lightning, the burning curses of Kimbery and so on, for just four motes.

Does this mean I don't have to pay initiative against an unparryable attack even if it deals damage? Or is the initiative waived only for those attacks that deal soemthing that isn't damage?

>>43597273

I'd probably have you paying init to counter successes on the initiative/"damage" roll whether it actually translates into damage or not (e.g. the Raksha's ability to shape you into a dog if he deals "damage" with his curse), and otherwise just 4 motes if the attack just said "no, if I hit you're a dog."

>>43597232
>What type of material should this be?
Blue jade, maybe mixed with something fancy like solidified breath of behemoth or whatever.

>Thoughts on how to do either of those things with evos?
Make one Evo for creating vision penalties and other for weaving clones from the mist. Maybe something for stelthing and ambushing your target while the mist is on. Or maybe gaining reflexive attacks after your clones.

Hi /exg/, I'm writing an Exigent that will have attribute-based charms and will be very stunt-focused. I have a few ideas for charms but what about excellencies? How might I be able to have the excellencies depend on stunts like most of the other charms?

>>43597407
>an Exigent that will have attribute-based charms
That's a no.

>>43597429

What?

There's literally one in core with Attribute-based Charms.

Exigents can have whatever basis for Charms they want.

>>43597429
It was the player's request. Also rule 0.

>>43597232

Wasn't Shining Ice Mirror able to create copies of the wielder in the leak, or does your player want something else?

>>43597407

The obvious answer is that they can add their stunt value/dice to their dicecap, which means most of the time it'll be (Attribute + 1/2), with a potential maximum of (Attribute + 3/6).

Alternatively, maybe they can turn their stunt dice into rerolls for a small price?

We need some other things to go on, like whether the Exigent's Charms will be heavy with dice-tricks like Solars or more "fall where they lay" like Lunars and Sids.

>>43596813
>Do I make the defender too strong? Do I make Resistance too strong?

I think this makes Resistance stronger while affecting DV-based defenses. By RAW, where everything is declared before anything is rolled, I would be much more likely to spend motes on DV to avoid an attack that boosts damage than one does not. In your proposed system, Resistance and other soak-based defenses would have an inherent advantage over DV defenses when compared to RAW simply because they are used when more information is available to the defender. Don't know if this is a big deal, but it's worth considering.

So now that the feedback period is over, how long until the book as actually released?

i feel like its time to talk about what we know and don't know and how we can relieve ourselves of holden and morke again

what we know: there is no continuing contract with onyx path, based on rich's acknowledgement that white wolf was gracious enough to allow them to deliver all of their current kickstarters (including, sadly, ex3)

we also know that white wolf will have an ongoing relationship with by night studios, as white wolf's first official act after reconstitution was joining by night studios for the halloween bash in new orleans

also we know tobias sjogren and martin ericsson are both big in the larp scene, so a deal with bns is basically a sure thing at this point

bns publishes primarily classic wod stuff

onyx path publishes primarily new wod stuff

a lot of time and energy was just put into nwod and certainly rich is pushing back against the realization that the nwod lines are not likely to be authorized going forward (his comment on the blog regarding how "these kickstarters are ongoing deliveries of product lines" was a really sad and desperate attempt to create a loophole that doesn't exist)

tobias has actually started mentioning exalted in interviews, likely as a result of your letter writing campaigns (remember pr@paradoxplaza,com with your complaints about how shit tier holden and morke are)

based on all of this, we feel confident that we can expect at least a partial victory and the removal of holden as co-developer of the line and with any luck he will drag morke down with him

godspeed gentlebeings, the war will be over soon

>>43597550
I will look that up.

>>43597684
Honestly? Hopefully a year. Even assuming they're going to be stubborn and leave Craft as is, despite it being almost unanimously hated, there are too many problems to fix in a short time.

>>43597707

There are not that many compared to a lot of things. It's just Maria who is going to cause this to take a year.

>>43597686
You know, I have no special affection for the devs, but your dogged insistence and determination in having them fired and making me wait another development cycle to play this damn game just makes me want to sing them praises to the paradox people just to spite you.

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>>43597707
The primary time problem isn't actually the writing or editing. That's a couple months at the outside.

It's the art.

Still pretty irked they aren't even going to pretend they looked at Craft and tried to make it not awful.

>>43597686
Dude, you are mad. Like, batshit insane.

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>>43597707
>implying they will fix anything
No, this turd with maybe five art pieces redone is all we will get.

>>43597748
You'll be able to play it either way, and at this phase I can't see Holden or Morke being necessary from any viewpoint or even a positive influence on how fast it gets done.

>>43597550
I'm not seeing that in the leak.

>>43597789

You really think the new crop of devs is going to want to work on H&H's version of Exalted?

They're going to either throw it out and start fresh, or start writing their Exalted on top of a foundation not built for it. Either way the game dies an unholy frankenstein.

>>43597784
Well, they acknowledge that not defining magical actions was an oversight. That should get fixed.

>>43597789
I meant full game, with all the other splats. Hopefully you're right and it won't matter either way.

>>43597822
Because Holden and Morke are the only Exalted devs, not just the loudest and least competent.

>>43597843

Vance is going to get tossed out too, dawg. Paradox isn't going to bother with a fine-tooth scalpel here; it's way cheaper for them to just toss everything out.

And even if they do keep him, he's going to be a minority voice, so you're still subject to >>43597822

>>43597843
They literally are though. Check the credits. Unless you think Grabowski is going to take over.

So, if I'm reading this right, Exalted can't die from disease - but instead of being completely immune they can proceed all the way up to defining?

>>43597784
They are going to add things like magical action definition so we'll get at least some clarifications. Craft won't get changed for sure. It's not like they just went with the first thing that went into their heads, they probably tried other systems during development. Other core systems also won't get changed because it's just too late for that.

>>43598007

Yeah. They get sick they just can't die.

>>43598033
It's like some kind of living hell.

>>43598033
>>43598040
What the fuck, so you can contract leprosy and you keep rotting forever until you get healed?
Screw that I'm investing in Resistance

>>43598033
>>43598040
it's just holden and morke's meta commentary on the people who have to play exalted 3

First for manipulating exalts via the SNACKtisfying combo of DORITORS AND MOUNTAIN DEW

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>>43598040

>not putting dots in resistance

>>43598164
IIRC, Leprosy actually just deadens pain receptors which results in rodents literally eating people alive in their sleep.

Which isn't better, thinking about it.

>>43597819

Frost Phantom Strike creates a double of you that mimics your attack.

>>43598164

That is what you get when you don't just spend the point of willpower when the storyteller tells you to do a stamina+resistance roll when around lepers.

So if you were going to make Resistance and/or Integrity into abilities that people actually roll during sessions instead of only to resist stuff, what would you make them do?

>>43598381

The two uses I gave Resistance were Retrying (as in, you couldn't retry anything in the same scene, except by rolling your Resistance in lieu of skill) and Take the Blow (turns a withering attack into a decisive; risky but stops their init cold in exchange for taking some real damage; also does horrible things when combined with soakbeasts so I need to fix it).

Integrity I gave meditation (suppresses/alters your Intimacies either short term or over time, again the only way you could do so, no rolling Presence against yourself) and anima/essence control (increases end-of-turn mote regen or alters your anima level as a combat action).

Not ideal, and i'm sure they do something ugly to the game (take the blow especially) but a start that I liked

>>43598432
>does horrible things when combined with soakbeasts

I'm curious about that one, since soak doesn't apply to decisives.

Neat ideas, though.

>>43598547
>I'm curious about that one, since soak doesn't apply to decisives.

The idea was that, to make it really high risk:high reward and avoid having to "redeclare" Charms depending on whether it worked or not, all the numbers stayed the same; you effectively took a withering attack, BUT, all rolled successes became damage instead of init lost, and they reset as normal.

So Overwhelming usually meant you were at risk of taking at least 1L, but Resistance has some post-soak negators that would let you reliably Take the Blow repeatedly, basically stopping anyone from ever building enough init to launch an actual, soak-ignoring Decisive unless they beat your TtB activation roll (which opposed their attack roll).

>>43598605
If I was going to do that, I'd have it be something you declare when the opponent declares the attack, before use of any Charms.

e.g. They say "I'm making a withering attack", you say "no, it's decisive", and charm selection and stuff proceeds from there.

>>43598699

That's possible, but adds a roll rather than replacing one (and it would need a roll, or some other kind of uncertainty), which I try to avoid for something as common as attacks.

>>43598778
Why? It would still have the attack roll and all, just the decisive version.

Reminder that /exg/ is full of insane butthurt autists from the Kickstarter comment page and everyone fucking loved the leak.

>>43598828

>have any significant degree of Hardness
>the moment you get them below that amount of hardness
>"I with-"
>I take the blow. Bounces off from hardness, now you're at base.
>"I with-"
>I take the blow. Bounces off again.
>ad nauseum

In theory he can go wither someone else, but I dislike mechanics that break down in duels.

>>43598832
Ok strength of many

>>43598864
ok doritolocos

>>43598864
OK Nedloh

>>43598832
you should probably stop reading 4chan holden

it's for adults

Also I'm running an actual IRL Ex3 game and it's awesome. Still getting my head round all the various different options but Gambits have already been the best thing ever like 4 times now.

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>>43597686
Your analysis is very interesting.

What's the source on the White Wolf guys and the LARP scene? I mean I've seen disparaging comments about the Nordic LARP scene off and on in these threads, but didn't realize they were a big deal.

>>43598882
>adults
>edition wars

OK Strength of Many

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>>43598897
This sort of post is about as useful as the "the game sucks, everything sucks, bp/xp sucks, Holden sucks, Morke sucks" posts.

>>43598873
>>43598878
You should have some delicious snacks

>>43597784
What do you dislike about the game, anon?

>>43598937
>Participates in an edition war
>Subsequently tries to claim the high ground about edition wars
Sasuga hamster.

>>43597407

The exigent of 80s action stars?

>>43598832
It's just like a handful of people. Most want to talk about the game.

>>43597789
Personally I want the other splats and I want the line to proceed.

The corebook isn't a complete game, at this juncture, and I'm not triggered enough by the devs being meanies on the internet to care about the drama.

>>43597273

I'm pretty sure the intent of that clause is to allow you to use it out of combat (when you don't have initiative to spend) to defend against large-scale environmental effects.

If you're doing it in combat, I'd make you pay the initiative.

>>43598937
Shut up, Holden.

>>43599297
>Personally I want the other splats and I want the line to proceed.
Personally I want a line that's worth the storage space.

>>43597707

What's wrong with Craft?

>>43598937

>edition wars

Nobody is arguing about editions. Just that 3e is shit. It does not make 2e or 1e less shit. So its not an edition war. Its griping about how we will never get a good edition.

>>43598882

Then start writing like one.

>>43599311
Well it's good that Ex3 is a solid game, then? Unless you're willing to talk about why you dislike it.

>>43599335

No u Holden

>>43599314

Basically go back to when the leak was made. Read all the posts after posts after posts about how Craft is shit. We have had the discussion so much at this point it is beating a dead horse.

>>43599335
Say what you will, his lack of periods and capitalization triggers me less than people that put a lineskip between the post quote and the content.

>>43599329
Man, whenever people throw a bitchfit about 3E they either talk about muh craft or they don't elaborate at all.

3E is good, overall

>>43599377
What about the BP/XP holy war?

>>43599377
>Good

Just because the bar from 2e is so low and it isn't complete flaming shit does not make it good by any stretch of the imagination

>>43599335
i do write like an adult

don't mistake the lack of capitalization for ineptness at persuasive writing

i think the quality of my writing is plenty clear given the responses

or do you not worry that i am effectively persuading people

the fact that you keep trying (badly) to persuade people not to take me seriously speaks volumes

>>43599434
Just use bp only or that xpless thing Holden posted on rpg.net, nigga.

Not like it's the only current RPG that assigns different priorities to chargen vs. game development

>>43599450
Why do you think it's bad, then?

>>43599460
It's your posting that makes people take you less seriously

>>43599469
>only current RPG
yeah, the other ones are pure nostalgia pieces

everyone else is aware of mathematics these days

serves us right, though. we deserve holden, right?

>>43599344
It's just cumbersome and boring. I love crunch, but none of the crunch in Ex3 was fun or appealing. I love Exalted enough to put up with 2e for years. I got 12 sessions into Ex3 before I realized that nothing about it was fun or enjoyable and wound up sticking around for another 3 to retire my character properly and then quit.

>>43599515
>it wasn't fun for me

Ok. Why?

>>43599500
yet you keep feeling like you must respond

ordinarily if you didnt take someone seriously, you wouldn't respond

look, i get it. you like the taste of shit in your mouth. but i don't. i may be a minority

only time will tell, though

>>43599377

Things I don't like about 3E:
* Craft
* Martial Arts costs, and ties to specific named weapons (instead of tag-based, like the rest of the weapons system)
* BP/XP divide
* Vague rules (mostly a product of "natural language" charms)
* Naval combat rules
* Lack of a bureaucratic/projects/leadership system
* XP manipulation charms (mostly in Craft and Lore)
* Charms that require NPCs be statted as PCs instead of QCs.
* Charms that give dice tricks rather than special effects
* New integrity charms and the bridge keyword

>>43599508
I was about to give you a serious answer but I noticed you were the dickhead with the broken shift key.

>>43599553
You are being shat on by more than one person.

>>43599587
but you still felt the need to respond

understandably, from my perspective

there's clearly plenty of people who are being persuaded by posts like mine

that can't make you feel good about the future prospects of this pile of shit

maybe you should stick to arguing with toddlers

although you probably lose those debates too

doesn't that just suck

>>43597273
>>43597327

>>43599302
That's covered by the 4m 1wp cost already though. It's pretty clear that the intent of this clause is allowing you to apply your Parry as a difficulty against attacks that you normally wouldn't be able to. Paying initiative to counter successes on the roll is a separate function. That logically you should also be able to apply to the same attack.

>>43597096
By a strict reading you can take your Peony Blossom attack whenever you want, yes. However, it seems to fly against the intent of the charm to me, what with it mentioning taking an additional attack on your turn. Also its probably much safer to leave reflexive clashes to charms specifically designed for such things (such as Fervent Blow).

>>43598832
So /exg/ dislikes it and the kikestarters (who paid for it) dislike it

Who is this "everyone" who loved the leak?

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>>43599587
>>43599612
You guys realize he's literally talking circles around you, right?

He's mocking you for being buttmad idiots.

It's right there in the posts.

If you'd like to reduce his influence, not engaging him is the correct method.

>>43599460
>don't mistake the lack of capitalization for ineptness at persuasive writing
There's no mistake, it is ineptness.

>>43599688
/exg/ loved the leak, except for Craft. It's when the book came out, nothing had been fixed and the layout and art were abysmal that all the real complaints started. For a while it was actually impossible to have an actual conversation about the game for all the bitching, though the Paradox deal has kicked it up again.

>>43599716
you know, its mostly a way to be identifiable without tripfagging

or do you want me to start doing that?

until this crusade is over next week, anyway

do you make it a habit to underestimate opponents?

usually i would just ignore you, but you're holding a megaphone up to my message

many thanks for that, by the way

be seein you

>>43599754
You know why you're worse than a tripfag? You can filter a tripfag.

>>43599297
>It's just like a handful of people. Most want to talk about the game.
A handful of people who are incapable of shutting the fuck up. Granted, if we want non-critical hugboxes I hear there are official forums for that.

>>43599754
Honestly, even if you used capital letters your posts would be recognisable from the fact that you talk like an anime villain.

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>>43599710

>>43599576
>MA costs

MA is fine, the additional buy in is assuaged by the fact that they can let you take two actions per turn, ignore soak, etc.

The weapon requirements boil down to things like "swords" or "fans and fists" and so on. They encourage the style to hold to a theme and do little to restrict character concepts

>bp/xp divide

Just use bp!

>Natural language

I've read the discussion on SA, most of it was just hilarious edge case stuff or deliberate bad faith readings.

>naval combat rules

I've literally heard no one complain about them

>lack of bureaucracy system

That's in the book. It's not nearly as detailed as Mandate of Heaven, but it's present.

>XP manip charms

Craft gonna craft and there are enough caveats to Lore that I don't consider it an issue.

>Charms that require NPCs to be started out

Such as?

>Charms that give dice tricks

What if I told you that Excellent Strike was the best melee charm in the book, and has a huge impact on combat?

>New Integrity charms

Previously there was zero reason to be interested in Integrity. Now there is.

>>43599710
>buttmad idiot mocking buttmad idiots for being buttmad idiots

It's like buttception

>>43599710
Why? He's making me like the game just to spite him.

>>43599811
interesting

now i have another reason not to tripfag

thanks anon

>>43599832
ever wonder why villains talk the way they do?

never stop to think why you always recognize the cadence and tone?

sometimes a little thought goes a long way

enjoy your evening, anon

>>43599549
I don't usually dissect my opinions too much, but the biggest thing is coming down from the hype. 3 years for an average-at-best product, doesn't exactly leave me in a good or objective place mentally, I guess. Not a fan of most of the new charms either, and my group had already been doing evocations and workings in a more ad-hoc manner for a long time, those might be contributing as well.

>>43599688
Me

>>43599688
>/exg/ dislikes it

/exg/ before leak:
>HAHAHA ASHTON KUTCHER MOST OBVIOUS KICKSTARTER FRAUD IN HISTORY

/exg/ after leak
>Wait what this is the best version of Exalted ever it actually fucking functions

/exg/ after backer release
>OMFG HOLDEN AND MORKE ARE LIARS BEGIN AN EMAIL CAMPAIGN THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD

Given that there's no real difference between the leak and the backer pdf, my best guess is that the difference is due to insane buttdamaged autists who weren't posting here before the backer pdf came out.

>>43597232
Hello Jack the Ripper (loli Nasuverse one of course)

>>43599947
>ever wonder why villains talk the way they do?
Because the characters usually have delusions of grandeur.

>>43599987
That seems to match with my experience on these threads, and I've been here since before the KS.

>>43599887
>naval combat rules
>I've literally heard no one complain about them
You've literally not been paying attention to the threads, then.
You can't do anything unless you're the captain of the ship, damage doesn't make any sense(1 cannon does the same amount of damage as 1000 cannons, 1 magical cannon does more damage than 1000 cannons), and even the semi-official thing one of the WoD devs wrote as a bandaid for it doesn't fix ALL the issues.

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>>43599943
He wins either way.

You either come around to his point of view or you like a game out of spite for some anon on the internet who got you buttmad.

Good luck convincing your friends to play with that sort of reasoning.

It's kekmate.

>>43599987
You know, we went from red-panda lunar to laughingashtonkutcher.gif to ok holden. Are the memes here getting progressively worse? Is no-caps guy an elaborate meme orchestrated by multiple shitposters?

>>43597096

Yes, of course.

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>>43598274
Missed that. Thank you.

>>43599576
>projects system
Isn't that in?

>>43600034
I've been in the threads for some time, I haven't seen the discussion.

So is it just too abstracted?

>>43600040
The idea that trolls can gain any victory at all is stupid. Yeah, I know shitposters get a chubby thinking about how upset they're making people but in reality that just isn't happening. People aren't getting upset just because someone said something foolish.

>>43600030
We used to have threads about how to beat up Ahlat with a starting Dawn and now we're having threads about who is more buttmad and about what.

>>43600073
It is.

>>43600041
surprising you think its multiple people

ordinarily people are sure its just one person ruining their favorite thing

might have been a few times you mistook someone else for me though

although that was at least a few threads back

don't even remember why, but you probably made them buttmad

>>43600102
I'm making it worse by fucking talking about how buttmad I am by how bad the threads are, too

Which means I AM NOW HOLDEN

>>43600102
So has anyone actually beat up Ahlat here, or is it just a thing we like to theorize about?

Cause Creation has a lot of people to beat up.

>>43600102
It's just no-caps faggot-kun. Some day the mods will ban him, like Strength of Many.

>>43600087
Honestly it's really sad the idea that someone can be in a place, where even the level of attention that is someone sighing, rolling their eyes and saying "you're a moron", is gratifying. Because a few catastrophic conniptions aside, that's all it ever is.

>>43600153
I think they fixed it in the backer release, but I'm not Ahlat Whiteroom Anon

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>>43600102

>>43600138
Ok, me.

>>43600102
>We used to have threads about how to beat up Ahlat with a starting Dawn
To be fair, that build didn't actually function according to the rules.
>>43600153
It's hard, but possible. His biggest weakness is that he has no counter to onslaught (unless he knows he's dealing with onslaught and uses one of his charms to master Single Point or something) which makes him much more vulnerable to Brawlers. I've not seen an actual build capable of doing it at character creation though.

>>43600153
It was a quasi-white-room build way back in the leak that may or may not have worked then (not familiar with the precise details) and definitively does not work now, even within said white-room.

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>>43600087
But responding to him simply reinforces the validity of his arguments.

It draws attention to the fact people can write to Paradox to complain about things and it may make a difference.

People are doing that. But I would put cash down on it being overwhelmingly negative feedback about the sort of shit Holden pulls that keeps him gainfully employed as a night shift gas station clerk in Jacksonville Florida.

Like I said, either way he's winning because you're responding to his posts. He has no skin in the game. He doesn't give a shit if you imply he's bad a writing on an anonymous imageboard.

>>43600082
If you're in a group with someone who has Sail, any time ship combat comes up, you basically just have to sit back and do nothing for the next hour while they trade stunts and dice rolls with the ST. There's literally nothing for a non-captain to do on a ship in naval combat.

Damage is too abstracted, yeah, because a cannonball flying at your ship from point-blank range does the same amount of damage as a ballistae/bow and arrow fired from extreme range, or a long line of cannons all firing at your ship at the same exact time. Meanwhile, if any of these weapons are an artifact or sorcery/sorcerously enhanced(workings!), they instantly do twice as much damage. RAW, a ship with 20 cannons on one side firing simultaneously at a guy with 1 artifact cannon on the other, in the exact same ship, will lose, because the artifact cannon does twice as much damage as the mundane cannons.

>>43600160

>It's just no-caps faggot-kun

You wish. Look back at the other threads and there are people who capitalize their posts doing the same thing but in a less retarded way.

>>43600153

You can beat Ahlat with a starting character if that character is a Supernal Melee clash specialist. Just win initiative with Awareness or Stealth dice tricks then clash him every time he tries to hit you, you'll win eventually as long as you aren't reckless with mote expenditures. He can never beat you in a Clash so he never gets to do anything.

Ancalagon and Supernal Resistance work too.

Runnin Ex3 for people new to Exalted in general, what do I need to know?

>>43600183
They fixed Heaven Thunder Hammer being Dirt Cheap and Hammer On Iron Technique ignoring hardness, which were some of the cornerstones of the build. On the other hand, it also required the user to repeatedly use Thunderclap Rush Attack in a way that was against the rules.

>>43600209
If his victory condition is someone acknowledging his existence, I won't begrudge him that. If you think that the people responding to him are somehow 'losing' though then you're as delusional as he is.

>>43600237
Fuck Sidereal.

>>43600230
He can use the shift-key to false flag.

IT IS WHAT I WOULD DO.

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>>43600211
>If you're in a group with someone who has Sail, any time ship combat comes up, you basically just have to sit back and do nothing for the next hour while they trade stunts and dice rolls with the ST. There's literally nothing for a non-captain to do on a ship in naval combat.
This is a problem pretty much every game with ships has. It's also fundamentally a problem of approaching the construct of naval battle too broadly.

There are several games I can think of that do it well, and pretty much all of them were made 10+ years ago.

My game is set in the West and I'll be taking a hard look at making Sail and ship-based engagements more engaging for the entire group.

>>43600249
*writes down*

What else?

>>43599887

> MA is fine, the additional buy in is assuaged by the fact that they can let you take two actions per turn, ignore soak, etc.

No, that's what the cost of the charms is for, just the same as buying Brawl charms let you hit eight times a round, ignore hardness, etc.

> The weapon requirements boil down to things like "swords" or "fans and fists" and so on. They encourage the style to hold to a theme and do little to restrict character concepts

It's not about restricting themes - it's that they created a system where it's trivial to create new weapon types, but that all such weapons are automatically barred from an entire subsystem.

If you wanted a style to only use swords, go with "must be a medium weapon with the balanced and lethal tags".

It's not a big thing, just a jarring note.

> Just use bp!

A decent houserule, and fairly easy to implement. Doesn't mean I still don't like the bp/xp divide in the actual rules.

> I've read the discussion on SA, most of it was just hilarious edge case stuff or deliberate bad faith readings.

I've never been to SA, so I don't know what they discussed. But just using consistent phraseology and sentence construction would have done so much to clear this up.

Defining "cascading 10s", and then using that everywhere instead of defining it with slightly different language everywhere it is used. Separating fluff from crunch, so it's easy to tell whether Soul-Nourishing Technique actually lets people go without eating, or whether that's just poetic description. Defining "winning join battle" in the join battle section, and referencing it in charms, rather than having the definition contained in one arbitrary charm with no references from other charms that use the same term.

>>43600237

Craft is shit so unless you want to houserule it heavily don't have any of your people do Craft.

>can't craft diamonds from coal
Why take craft?

>>43599887

> I've literally heard no one complain about them

Probably because nobody's used them. One of our first games had a Supernal Sailor though *eyeroll*

Basically, nobody apart from the captain can do anything, until the captain generates enough Momentum to attempt a boarding maneuvour, at which point normal combat happens, and the captain sits twiddling his thumbs until it ends, and naval combat resumes.

> Craft gonna craft and there are enough caveats to Lore that I don't consider it an issue.

Wait until you play a game where two Loremasters become bestest buddies, and repeatedly elevate their XP above that of the rest of the goup.

> What if I told you that Excellent Strike was the best melee charm in the book, and has a huge impact on combat?

What if I told you that mathematical impact on combat was not my primary criteria for determining the excellence of Charms, and that Wicked Dissolve Dust is far more epic than re-rolling 1s.

> Previously there was zero reason to be interested in Integrity. Now there is.

Sure. Because it nicked all sorts of nifty effects from other abilities, and made them accessible without actually caring about Integrity via the Bridge keyword.

If the ability is not exciting enough to actually invest in, to the point where you have to circumvent the pre-requisites, chuck it out, and add an ability that people actually want to invest in for its own sake.

>>43600253

Yeah. Except he has responses agreeing with him in the same minute.

>>43600294
Because you want to torture your ST by making him join you in battle against the Crafting System Hydra?

>>43600268
>No, that's what the cost of the charms is for, just the same as buying Brawl charms let you hit eight times a round, ignore hardness, etc

Southpaw build was nerfed, yo.

Also, I mean, wouldn't most people define winning join battle as going first?

>>43600102
Then let's talk about something else.
Weapons! I made a spreadsheet to compare the average number of damage dice you'd get on a withering attack based on weapon and target's stats.

General results: Medium weapons are the best all-rounder or in a duel (where the +1 Def makes a massive difference). Light weapons are better against high Def (duh) and eventually reach this threshold of soak where they outperform everything due to mundane weapons all having the same Overwhelming value. Heavy weapons are good in the specific case of low-Def high-soak targets, but when they're good they're REALLY good. I recommend a party be mostly light-medium and have one guy with a heavy weapon to whomp soak monsters after the rest of the party stacks onslaught on them.

Unless you all use artifacts, then Daiklaives are pretty much better than everything else.

>>43600268
>whether Soul-Nourishing Technique actually lets people go without eating, or whether that's just poetic description.
But anon, fluff is crunch

>>43600297
Pfft, that's also easy to do.

Either way don't let shit posts get you down, and I mean, some people just aren't gonna like the game.

>>43600323
Light weapons are virtually always a better choice than anything else in the Initiative economy, unless you're in a race to deal more damage before you get crippled yourself.

It's why Brawl + Resistance builds are probably better than Melee builds by E3.

>>43600237

That all of the PCs are celestially empowered demigods, and as such, are expected to succeed in just about any task you set them. This makes the game very character driven, so you need to make sure that your party has tangible goals.

>>43600295
>What if I told you that mathematical impact on combat was not my primary criteria for determining the excellence of Charms, and that Wicked Dissolve Dust is far more epic than re-rolling 1s.

What if I told you that ur a faget

(Also, Excellent Strike is boring, but One Weapon Two Blows just became a completely fucking amazing charm that every Solar Melee build should have and you must a fucking idiot if you disagree)

>>43600237

Have them read Exalted 301 by Mengtzu on the rpgnet forums. It's a pretty decent primer.

>>43600323

For Exalts, it's primarily a contest between Paired Short Daiklaves and Beloved Adorei for serious combatants. The former if you Clash a lot, the latter if you don't.

>>43600323
Interesting stuff, spreadsheet anon.

Would a Heavy tag that increased Overwhelming help much? (Thinking ones built for cutting rather than Smashing)

>>43600357

Brawl is better against 90% of enemies that you will face in Creation, but Melee is better for Solar vs Solar combat. Melee kills slower and its accuracy is overkill for everything except Clash wars, but you pretty much guarantee that an enemy will do nothing but get his face beat in if you just clash his attacks. Excellent Strike + Rising Sun Strike + Hail-Shattering Practice is just too much to overcome accuracy-wise.

>>43600321

Probably. Winning in this case means beating all of the enemies, regardless of what your allies got.

>>43600373
I am a faget but Excellent Strike is insanely mote-efficient and shuts down lots of defensive options.

No reason not to use it forever.

>>43600434
Plus melee has a lot more flexibility and unlike Brawl has quite a few defensive options.

>>43600237
Use another system Ex3 has nothing redeeming

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>>43600257
I've put in some time and research (including pulling out Savage Seas) and determined that of the officers that are important on board a vessel under war sail, there are, conveniently, five that are vital.

1. Quartermaster. In combat, this is often the Captain or First Officer. This person is physically piloting the ship through the engagement. Sail and War are his primary abilities.

2. Gunner. This is the person who is engaged in making things explode. Mostly things not on board their own vessel. Hopefully. Archery and War are his primary abilities.

3. Bosun. This is the guy who calls out all of the sail adjustments. He's in charge of ensuring the ship keeps moving. Bureaucracy and Sail are his primary abilities.

4. Master of Arms. Often the ranking Marine. He's responsible for repelling boarders and leading boarding actions. His primary Abilities will be combat-related.

5. Carpenter or Surgeon. This is going to depend on the skillsets the circle has in play. With a Crafter available, they can simply repair damage done to the vessel and keep it in the fight. A Surgeon focuses on keeping as many crew on deck as possible. Primary Abilities are Bureaucracy, Craft, and/or Medicine.

With any luck, I'll be able to bang out subsystems to support those roles in naval battles, but it probably means significantly unpacking the current system.

>>43600506
Iunno, it looks pretty fun!

>>43600506
>Use another system Ex3 has nothing redeeming
This forced meme is just not going to take hold, Strength of Many. Give up on it.

>>43600516
So...
2e mass battle rules?

What Exalt type has the best waifus, /tg/?

What Exalt type would have the worst waifu?

>>43600595

Best Waifus are Lunars.
Worst Waifus are Sidereals (mostly because you keep forgetting them)

>>43600257
I just let my players take special actions and apply modifiers to their ship and/or the enemy ship, ala Rogue Trader.

>>43600595
Best waifus goes to Sids.
Worst waifus goes to DBs.

>>43600571

>he likes eating shit


>>43600595
Agone has best waifus.

Although your probably never heard of it

>>43600604
>>43600625

We have some contention here.

>>43600632
Strength of Many plz.

Shit taste in waifus.

>>43600237
Conflict is made interesting and rewarding by what characters stand to gain and lose. Too often in tabletop RPGs do players initiate a combat and then shrug their shoulders if they lose, either because they didn't die and they didn't lose anything other than expendable items they can repurchase with cash or because even dying isn't much of a consequence. And what I'm saying applies to all forms of conflict, not just combat. If a character loses a debate, an economic struggle, a research competition, it should matter. It should cost something that the character cares about. When PCs opt to jump into a fight they have the opportunity to mitigate the risk to themselves and you should allow them this to some extent, but when you as the Storyteller bring a battle to the PCs it should make the players excited.

>>43600604
>>43600625

He didn't ask who IS the best waifus, he asked who HAS the best waifus.

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>>43600576
Eh. No, those didn't work nearly as well as they were explained on paper.

Look at it this way: if the Quartermaster fails, they either fall behind or lose position against the enemy, resulting in penalties for the Bosun and Gunner and potentially incoming and accurate fire that will keep the Bosun and Carpenter/Surgeon busy.

If the Gunner fails, you don't hit, and that's pretty bad all by itself. But it could also mean you miss another chance at attack, too.

So forth and so on.

>>43600609
Similar to this, although hammering out exactly what sort of modifiers to apply is the tricky part.

Like excellent sailing by the QM or a great War roll from the Gunner could result in automatic successes on the next fusillade or enfilade, by way of example.

It's an easy problem to unpack, but doing it well and in a way that doesn't really slow down naval engagements is the tricky part.

No wonder Holden and Morke didn't bother trying.

>>43600660
Yes, Sids have the best waifus, because it can be anyone and everything.

DB's have worst, because it's always your cousin.

>>43600595

Chosen of Serenity >>> Changing Moon Lunar >> Everything Else > Liminals

Ahn-Aru is pretty cute thou

>>43600697
Ahn-Aru is dogmatically devoted to the Bronze Faction, though.

>>43600646

>he doesn't like obscure French role playing games

>>43600691
Sids also aren't remembered by their waifus, and therefore get keked all the time.

>>43600632

>he likes eating shit

Isn't there an Infernal charm to make him that way?

>>43600749
No, only that he can survive on shit (or other things, like blood, metal, grass, etc).

It doesn't make the process any more enjoyable.

So, I'm still pondering a unified Bureaucracy/Workings/Crafting system based off of the current Sorcerious Workings system, but not entirely shit.

What are things people want to see out of Exalted Craft? I know I want to see more "I'm a supernaturally good paper pusher" out of Bureaucracy, rather than just "I seel the things."

>>43600595
Dragon-blooded waifus tend to be other dragon-blooded, which are bretty gud because they tend to be cool with consorts as long as you're discrete and they'll probably be willing to have a swingers orgy with the, like, twenty consorts you're seeing between the two of you.

Sidereals don't have time for waifus.

>>43600777
I'd somehow like to accomplish vast public works projects with next to no actual resources or infrastructure.

>>43600777

>What are things people want to see out of Exalted Craft?

The ability to make a house without having to bake some mortals a bunch of cupcakes first.

>>43600777
>What are things people want to see out of Exalted Craft?
Two distinct trees.

Tree one should be for fixing shit in the immediate.

Tree two should be about projects.

sxp and basic projects should be burned to the ground, the foundation removed, and salt spread on the topsoil so that nothing can ever grow there again.

Or, you know, something that works well with the actual fiction of the game.

>>43600900

>sxp and basic projects should be burned to the ground, the foundation removed, and salt spread on the topsoil so that nothing can ever grow there again.

This

>>43600595
In my experience, Infernals have tended to be the best waifus.

Funnily enough, Lunars have also tended to be the worst waifus.

>>43600718

That just makes her cuter?

>>43600950
A true waifu would understand that exterminating the Abyssals is a higher priority than exterminating Solars.

>>43600974

You act like there's a difference.

>>43600900
>sxp and basic projects should be burned to the ground, the foundation removed, and salt spread on the topsoil so that nothing can ever grow there again.
What should be done to balance the benefits of artifacts/workings then?

>>43601089

No no, just SXP and basics. Majors up are fine, for most people, it's purely the basic/major hurdle that drives people batty.

>>43601278

The whole thing drives me batty.

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How to: starting to fix craft
>combine Basic and Major Projects into Basic Projects
>Rename Superior Projects into Major Projects
>Rename Experience Points into Bronze, Silver, and Gold
>You get Craft Experience for crafting shit
>You can use them for bonuses on finishing craft rolls if you wish, but it's not required
>Keep Major (old Superior) and Legendary project slots though?

There was some grorius anon some threads ago who went on and trimmed the charms as well, but I don't remember if anything came from that.

>>43601416

Sounds like something I did. Except I got rid of all craft slots since you already have the limit of exotic materials to make artifacts. Cut about 12 charms off of the tree and changed how Craft XP worked.

>>43599987

What? Evocations had massive reworks in backer copy.

>>43601506
You mean cutting them at the kneecaps and beating their faces in with a starmetal golf club.

>>43601416

I'm not sure if I'm grorious or not, but I posted this a while back. Hasn't been playtested - we're just starting a campaign using these rules, but nobody's really taking up craft in a big way.

http://howsfamily.net/Exalted/wiki/index.php?title=Andrew%27s_Houserules#Craft

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>>43601506

Still not too fucking happy about that one. Anyone got any good images of Artefact weapons? The ones in the book are shit.

>>43601526
No, evocations were retarded in the leak. The charm trees were way too long - it could take 100 xp to just reach an adamant evocation

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>tfw I just want to punch gorillas

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So I've notices that a number of weapons have both the Melee tag and the Thrown tag, namely spears. How well do Melee and Thrown charms go together?

>>43601816

Not really that well. Your best option is to optimize for join battle, win it, get a bunch of free auto-attacks at the start of combat to super-size your initiative pool, and then use melee the rest of the battle, or unless foes are out of sword range.

>>43601816

Not bad at all. You use Thrown Charms for your opening alpha strike, run up, grab one of the ones you threw/draw your sword, and then unload into whoever's still standing with Melee Charms.

>>43601870

I love how we both produced the same tactic, and opposite evaluations.

To clarify, I'm not saying the tactic is bad, just that it doesn't involve synergy between the two charmsets, and you never combo charms from the two together.

>>43601870
>>43601882

That's what I was thinking, create a spear that I can hurl like a bolt of lighting as if I'm Zeus or Gwyn, but stay in Melee range for the most part. Thanks.

So I'm trying to come up with a first Evocation for one of my players. So far, most of what he's asked for has been either stuff that is outright "This solar charm except at essence 1"(mostly Blazing Solar Bolt, because he wants 'sword beams'), or stuff that affects evil people in unspecified ways(With his definition of evil being pretty much "anybody i dont like")

His character is a Zenith with Presence supernal, adopted son of the Minister of Military in Great Forks, and a soldier in the Great Forks Irregulars. That's about all he's given me.

The sword, pic related, is made of Orichalcum and steel; here's the write-up he did for it with the attunement bonus editted by me for mechanical applicability.
>A golden longsword of orichalcum and steel.
>It is said that this holy sword was forged not by Gods or the Exalted, but by the prayers of people in need. A village was beset by demons at the end of every year, but the prayers gave form to Seraph and allowed those people to fight back.
>Seraph is the bane of evil and the warder of common people. It is said that it appears wherever darkness is likely to spill, finding its way into the hands of a pure-hearted warrior.

>Evocations
>Whenever a Solar or Dragon-Blooded attunes to Seraph, the blade grants them +1 Accuracy. When fighting undead, demons, Abyssal Exalted or other creatures of darkness, Seraph grants attuned Solars and Dragon-Blooded one automatic success to all withering damage rolls, and converts 10s on a decisive damage roll to aggravated.

>>43602402
And here's the history writeup I did for it based on what he gave me, above.
>Many centuries ago, in the First Age, there was a village by the name of Goad's Breath. For a long time, this village existed peacefully; that is, until a foul-tempered mortal sorcerer grew angry at a number of the villagers. His method of revenge was to open a portal to Malfeas, though which 15 first-circle demons could enter Creation on the days just before Calibration, without the usual trek through Cecelyne. This quickly resulted in a yearly siege of the village by Luminata, Erymanthoi, and other vicious demons.
>The Unconquered Sun was held in high regard, by the people of this village. For years, nay, decades, they prayed to him for help, pleading for him to send someone to strike back against the demons which tormented their village. But no answer came. Then, one day, a farmhand took up a stick and charged at the demons as they approached; in that moment, a surge of power fell upon him, and his stick was replaced with a golden sword. This sword was deemed Savior, by the people of Goad's Breath. The man's name was Quentin Martell, and he had been Chosen by the Sun for his bravery.
>While the portal remained open for a few more months, Quentin was eventually able to find a sorcerer to perform a working that nullified it, sending all demons who passed through it back to the Hell from which they came. Savior, however, remained with him, as he left Goad's Breath and eventually became the king of one of the nearby Hundred Kingdoms. Of course, when the Usurpation came, he was given no quarter.
(Cont)

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>>43602419
(Cont)(Also forgot pic related on >>43602402)
>For the next 400 years, Savior was handed from grandparent to grandchild a handful of times by the members of House Sesus. The most recent, and most notable of these wielders was Sesus Diaro, who took it into battle with him several times, against a number of foes. In 754, Diaro was among the soldiers who fought on the side of Thorns in the battle of Mishaka. He lost his life in the battle, and Savior was claimed by one of the few survivors from the city of Great Forks, who brought it home with him as a trophy, knowing he would likely never wield it.
>The man who took Savior died a few years later, and when the sword was found in his possessions, the Three took it to keep it from falling into the hands of anybody who would use it against the city. Then, in RY 767, after the exaltation and interview of Carwyn, they granted him the sword, which he deemed Seraph, as a gift.

>>43602402
>>43602419
>>43602453
So, anybody have ideas to give me?
so far, I've tried suggesting to him flight-related shit, but he has outright said no to the wings on the sword impacting the evocations at all(and refuses to not have them). I also suggest a giant sun-beam thing that would do damage in an area, but he was against that too, because the only beams he wants are sword-beams, apparently.

>>43602402

>This solar charm except at essence 1

It'll need to be nerfed if he wants to have it at Ess 1. The problem is that being able to make Brawl or Melee attacks at range is a big fucking deal, if he only wants an Evocation for sword beams then chances are that he's SoL, try allowing him to store energy based attacks that he has parried within the sword, like Fire Eating Fist, that he can fire off later. Alternatively, make it a high cost thing in both motes and willpwer, and only let him use it once per scene. Give it a reset condition if you're feeling generous.

Also, what weight class is it? What happens when the wielder loses the purity of his heart? Consider changed the "vs CoD" bonus to Agg damage.

>>43602502

I have ideas, but they're mainly more for a sword based MA I helped a friend with. Making them with melee basically would mean making Melee a ranged ability.

Otherwise remind him sword beams are in the core already, Sandstorm Wind and Iron Raptor respectively.

The only help I have is an old 2e charm I had on my character based off the 00 Raiser Gundam.

Strike of the Godsaber
Cost: — (+2m); Mins: Melee 5, Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Blazing Solar Bolt

By holding the weapon up into the air, the Solar's weapon bursts forth, a solid beam of pure essence flying up a mile long, all before he brings it down on the unworthy. This Charm upgrades Blazing Solar Bolt. By paying an additional two motes when activating that Charm, the bolt crashes through armor as if it were barely even there, halving its armored soak. In addition, the limited effect damage rule cannot be invoked unless the target is truly massive.

In 3e, I'd probably give soak reduction and say it can hurt something regardless of size.

>>43600295

>What if I told you that mathematical impact on combat was not my primary criteria for determining the excellence of Charms, and that Wicked Dissolve Dust is far more epic than re-rolling 1s.

Apples to oranges. Dissolve Dust has prereqs, Excellent Strike is a Melee 2 ESS 1 introduction charm.

Make a comparison to something else as an entrance charm.

Though people said the same thing in 2e about HTT being a boring charm for some reason so.

>>43602608
>It'll need to be nerfed if he wants to have it at Ess 1. The problem is that being able to make Brawl or Melee attacks at range is a big fucking deal, if he only wants an Evocation for sword beams then chances are that he's SoL,
That's what I told him.
>try allowing him to store energy based attacks that he has parried within the sword, like Fire Eating Fist, that he can fire off later.
I'll see what he thinks about that next time I talk to him.
>Alternatively, make it a high cost thing in both motes and willpower, and only let him use it once per scene. Give it a reset condition if you're feeling generous.
Honestly, I'm kind of hesitant about giving him a ranged attack evocation, anyways, since the Dawn has a starmetal reaper daiklave where the first evocation lets him attack at up to medium range by ~cutting through the space between him and his enemy~

>Also, what weight class is it?
Medium. Standard Daiklave.
>What happens when the wielder loses the purity of his heart?
Likely nothing, since pure-heartedness is hard to measure without going lawful stupid paladin on him.
>Consider changed the "vs CoD" bonus to Agg damage.
>When fighting undead, demons, Abyssal Exalted or other creatures of darkness, Seraph grants attuned Solars and Dragon-Blooded one automatic success to all withering damage rolls, and converts 10s on a decisive damage roll to aggravated.
>and converts 10s on a decisive damage roll to aggravated.
All one sentence. Unless you mean just nyxing that part and making all damage it does to CoDs Agg, which I've been considering, honestly.

>>43602502
Well, to start with, your player sounds like a douchebag. "It has to have wings because muh aesthetism, but it can't dance or fly because do not want." "Bad sorcerer found a way to summon demons without going through Cecelyne" makes no mechanical difference because the pokemons start walking five days before the summon is even cast.

You should make the first evocation boost defend other actions used to benefit mortals. That plays into being the warder of the common man and doesn't give him the stupidly overpowered shit he wants.

Also, since it's the bane of evil, it should be made clear that the sword has its own idea of what justice is and may refuse to serve a master who won't show mercy to human foes.

>>43602743

>since the Dawn has a starmetal reaper daiklave where the first evocation lets him attack at up to medium range by ~cutting through the space between him and his enemy~

Hey! I did the same thing!

>>43602791
>"Bad sorcerer found a way to summon demons without going through Cecelyne" makes no mechanical difference because the pokemons start walking five days before the summon is even cast.
>Be a First Age Sorcerer
>Do a Celestial 3 Working to open a permanent portal between Creation and Malfeas
>Demons can now cross directly to this point in Creation
>Whether or not it ACTUALLY requires the 5 days of travel isn't necessarily important, it's a portal in Malfeas that leads directly to Creation, demons are gonna be all over that shit

>You should make the first evocation boost defend other actions used to benefit mortals. That plays into being the warder of the common man and doesn't give him the stupidly overpowered shit he wants.
Might go with that. Dunno how he'll feel about it just being a Defense boost, though.
>Also, since it's the bane of evil, it should be made clear that the sword has its own idea of what justice is and may refuse to serve a master who won't show mercy to human foes.
Now THAT, I like the idea of. Don't think he wants his sword to be intelligent, though, so I can't really do that.

>>43602791
You sound like a douchbag

>>43602402
>>43602419
>>43602453
You realize your player is ripping off the Master Sword wholesale, right?

>>43603104
To be honest, I figured he was trying to copy something from the Nasuverse, since he's such a massive annoying fan of it. Hadn't even thought it might be the Master Sword.

>>43602502
Tried doing write-ups for two potential first Evocations for his sword, based on >>43602791 and >>43602608's suggestions. Let me know if these seem too strong for a 3-dot Orichalcum Artifact.
>God's Grace Interjection
>Cost: 3m; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Reflexive;
>Keywords: Uniform
>Duration: Instant
>Prerequisites: None
>As a blade gifted from on high to defend people, Seraph excels at just that. By interposing the blade between the victim and their attacker, Carwyn can channel the power residing within the sword, causing it to give off a dim glow as it deflects the incoming blow away.
>This Evocation enhances a Defend Other action, adding +1 to Carywn's Defense and allowing him to ignore all penalties in order to parry with his full Defense +1. If the attacker is an undead, demon, Abyssal, or other creature of darkness, Carywn instead gains a +2 to his Defense. However, if the victim is a creature of darkness, this Evocation does not function, the glow of the sword fizzling out in a pathetic display.
Will post the other one here in a minute, it's too long to put in this post.

>>43603303
>Power Reflection Technique
>Cost: 3m; Mins: Essence 1; Type: Reflexive;
>Keywords: Uniform
>Duration: One Scene
>Prerequisites: None
>As the original wielder of Seraph channeled the pain inflicted by the demonic horde against them, so too can Carwyn channel the machinations of his enemies. As he deflects a blow empowered by magic with Seraph, the sword unleashes a brief glow of energy, after which any evidence of the magic enhancing the blow fades into Seraph. Later, when his opponent doesn't expect it, he unleashes their own enhancement back at them.
>This Evocation is activated after Carwyn successfully parries an attack enhanced by a Charm or Evocation. For the rest of the scene, or as long as he keeps motes committed to it, Carwyn can pay the same cost that was payed when it was used against him in order to use the Charm or Evocation for his own attack.
>The attack enhanced by the copy must be the same type as the parried attack. Therefore, copying a Charm or Evocation from a parried Decisive attack requires a Decisive attack to be made in order to use the copied power, and the same goes for Withering attacks.
>If the Essence requirement for the copied Charm or Evocation is higher than Carwyn's, he pays an additional 2 motes per dot above his own score required to use it. After using a copied Charm or Evocation, any motes committed to keeping it copied are lost, as the essence channels in Seraph empty out to prepare for another copy.
This one seems a little too strong to me, honestly, even though I spent a whole 2 paragraphs clarifying what it can't do after saying what it CAN do.

>>43601416
I'm seriously considering using Sorcerous Workings as a base and rewriting the system from there. Dump the whole s/g/wxp nonsense, spend real xp for artifacts otherwise ignore xp costs.

I'm not sure if I should roll craft types back to the 2e elements or just remove "area of expertise" completely. Thoughts?

>>43601544
Fuck, someone actually wrote it already. Guess I don't have to write anything after all. Disregard >>43603885, I suck cocks.

>>43603135
When you mentioned heavy wanking for sword beams I fully expected a picture of Excalibur there.

>>43603913
Fool.

So about Pei-Pei, God of Frogs

>>43603929
No, not that one, he's much more interesting than any nasushit.

>>43603939
I'm thinking middling successful celestial god. Not as big shot as the ones up the chain from the gods worshiped by Icewalker tribes, but gets enough ambrosia in to supplement their salary nicely.

Good person to trade favors with if you do a lot of work in the East. Maybe powerful enough to have an Exigent without dying.

Can you use charms like empowering shout on an entire battle group? The book mentions that a battle group is mechanically one guy, but it's a grey area.

>>43604286
yes

The Zenith anima is fucking worthless, what the hell?

>>43604286
Sidebar mentions that if any one character in a battle group becomes special (suffers a special crippling wound, etc), he splits from the group immediately. If it specifies one dude, it's one dude. Targeting is based on the narrative, not mechanical exactitude.

>>43603939
Best celestial
>captcha godwil the
Damn right

>>43604443
Yeah, the 1 mote is, but the 7 mote is amazing. Spirits are strong as fuck if you can convince them to do something.

>>43604472
The 7 mote power just makes them materialize, it doesn't give you control over them.

Why don't the Solars have charms to grant wishes?
Infernals superior, checkmate atheists

>>43604500
Oooh lets shove it as Essence 5 into Integrity.

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Can you kill gods to death?
What happens to their area of goddening?

>>43604558
Death isn't dead, which means he can be killed.

>>43604583
But I wasn't talking about Death?

>>43604600
Fine, gods of death aren't dead, which means they can be killed. Better?

And the same thing happens to when you kil any god, either it reforms in it's sanctum or if it's gone for good another god usurps it's domain

>>43604611
>another god usurps it's domain
How?
Do they lose their old place?
What happens to that?
Why bother with the paperwork?

>>43604649
>How?
For death, probably political lobbying and assassination rather than all out war.

>Do they lose their old place?
Only if they consider this a promotion and no longer have the power to run both.

>What happens to that?
Same thing as this one.

>Why bother with the paperwork?
People / Things will always die, so if you have shares in death you're never likely to go broke.

>>43604660
>People / Things will always die, so if you have shares in death you're never likely to go broke.
What are you talking about?

>For death, probably political lobbying and assassination rather than all out war.
Okay? How about a position for, say, a god of a waterway?

Geez, do you get a boner from talking about death or something?

>>43604704
>What are you talking about?

The amount of worship Gods get depends on, amongst other things, how much their domain affects people. Given that death is omnipresent as far as mortals go and this is not likely to change, you're never going to run out of worship if you're a death god. People are always going to pray to avoid death or pray that you help a dead loved one, etc.

It's worth the paperwork because it's a great domain to have.

>Okay? How about a position for, say, a god of a waterway?

That would be terrestrial, so most likely it'll be a turf war amongst other local gods; direct scuffles between thenm, making their existing worshippers alter their doctrine to incorporate the waterway, bribing the worshipers of the water god, etc.

>>43604704
>Geez, do you get a boner from talking about death or something?
MAYBE

>>43604704
>What are you talking about?
Do you even know how gods in Exalted work, like at all?

>Geez, do you get a boner from talking about death or something?
Gods of death was the original question you dingus

>>43604734
No it wasn't.
It was quite clearly about killing gods so they don't respawn/reform/come back and what happens to their domains afterwards.

>Can you kill gods to death
Not >Can you kill gods of death

>You kill something.
>It dead unless it reforms in some way
>You kill something to death
>It's killed in a say so that it doesn't reform in any way

Fuck, can't you shitbags into reading comprehension?

>>43604756
Alright, chill the fuck out.

You can permanently kill them with Ghost Eating Technique.

And if you do, then their domain is appropriated as already mentioned

>>43604756
...Okay, I admit to a reading derp on my part and sorry for the insult. Carry on.

>>43604731
>The amount of worship Gods get depends on, amongst other things, how much their domain affects people
Oh, he meant that stuff.

most likely it'll be a turf war amongst other local gods; direct scuffles between thenm, making their existing worshippers alter their doctrine to incorporate the waterway, bribing the worshipers of the water god,
Huh. Nasty business.
But wouldn't they have to answer to more people, like the new Celestial of the thing they took over? Seems kind of a hassle.
Unless you're small and insignificant that it would be worth the trouble and result in power/political boost I guess?

>>43604733
It's okay, I don't judge.

>>43604734
>Do you even know how gods in Exalted work, like at all?
I think I have some idea now?
>Gods of death was the original question you dingus
Um, but it wasn't?

>>43604756
Wow, rude much?

>>43604783
>But wouldn't they have to answer to more people, like the new Celestial of the thing they took over? Seems kind of a hassle.

Either you make a deal, or you just bung the new boss a cut of your total worship, ever so slightly increasing their cut from the previous waterway god. In most circumstances this will be enough for them to not hassle you day to day.

>Unless you're small and insignificant that it would be worth the trouble and result in power/political boost I guess?

Some random waterway isn't going to be important enough for celestial gods of travel, rivers or trade to really notice except as a memo they skim once and then toss in the trash. But if you're now the god of the waterway and the surrounding farmland, that's a big boost to your local influence.

>>43604832
[Huh. INTENSIFIES]

Thanks everyone for answering my stupid questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pgs6vaN_-g
This would be a great MA.

Some questions:

Are you guys still using the Resources guide out of 2e for figuring out how much stuff that doesn't make meat-puddles out of enemies costs?

On that note, why are there no costs listed for boats?

Finally, is it me... Or would the Mass Combat units in the various 2e books carry over nicely once you substitute their weapons and armor? It almost feels like a gift to all of us who were dumb enough to spend money on the previous edition.

>>43598939
>Whines about shitposting when someone talked about the fucking game
>Not whining about "OK [whoever]"
>doesn't contribute fuckall to topic
You are the bitter taste in your own mouth, faggot.

>>43599297
>Personally I want the other splats and I want the line to proceed.
That's where I'm at. I'm willing to bet money Grabowski isn't going to pick up the line, and anyone who does (including him) will fuck the whole thing up. I'm kinda lost as to why everyone hates Morke and Holden. Because they were assholes on the internet? Have you seen US? Who cares? Besides the art and Craft (pun intended), the edition is solid.

>>43599515
>none of the crunch in Ex3 was fun or appealing
I'm not saying you're wrong to dislike it, but the combat system is surprisingly genius. Also, Exalted's most compelling aspects have been setting material, not system material. That being said, this system works.

>>43600034
>even the semi-official thing one of the WoD devs wrote as a bandaid for it doesn't fix ALL the issues.
Gimmie.

>>43600379
>Have them read Exalted 301 by Mengtzu on the rpgnet forums. It's a pretty decent primer.
Thanks for that. I never knew I wanted or needed it before.

>>43600576
>>43600516
>>43600663
Personally, I plan on taking a stab at having the captain do captain-y things in normal Sail shit, while having my other players acting to solve various crises that arise from the shenanigans. Technically unrelated, but if run correctly, the players may not even notice. (It's good to have rookies sometimes).

>>43604986
Also, How would you guys stat up Lintha in 3rd edition?

>>43604993
>Also, How would you guys stat up Lintha in 3rd edition?

There's a QC statline for them in the antagonist chapter. As individual characters, they'd be normal humans with a few minor mutations in some cases like Gills, Fangs, or maybe Unusual Hide.

>>43604986
>I'm kinda lost as to why everyone hates Morke and Holden. Because they were assholes on the internet?
Because they are assholes that vitriolically defend their idiotic decisions like craft, ma merit, bp/xp and some select setting elements. This shows that they will keep making moronic decisions and just as stubbornly defend them in further books, building this shit up and up.

>Have you seen US?
I hate over half the thread's population too, so what? They aren't trying to sell me things.

>>43605023
On top of this, their signature auzhian swords (assuming those are still a thing) should be the same as chopping swords, but also have the Disarming tag and their cost should be 2 in the West and 3 everywhere else.

>>43605037
Wanna buy my deluxe copy when it comes in?

>>43605023
Fuck, I must have missed that.

>>43605052
>Fuck, I must have missed that.

To be fair, they're sort of rolled in as one fluff option for a general "grizzled mercs and highly skilled bandits" statline, so it's not too surprising.

One of my players wants a staff as a shaping ritual like the Talisman because he wants to do White Reaper Style and you can form weapon with a staff.

I am having a hard time coming up with the mote generation powers though. Anybody have any suggestions?

>>43605126
I don't like artifacts having sorcery evocations, the talisman had none, it was all the sorcerers merits.

>>43605143

What? I am talking about the shaping rituals. Like how you can spend a point of willpower to augment your join battle and get a mote for every two successes on the roll.

Not only that but for what you mentioned under the Talismans it says

>Evocations: Exalted sorcerers may master Evocations of the Talisman of Ten Thousand Eyes. These Evocations typically enhance the wearer’s senses, both mundane and spiritual, or directly enhance or alter spells.

>or directly enhance or alter spells.

So it can have sorcery evocations they are just not written out.

>>43605052
I'll give you 20 bucks for your Deluxe copy.

>>43605173
My mistake. Just refluff the Talisman rituals.
>directly enhance or alter spells
I wonder if the devs intend to allow sorcerous mote gathering evocations.

>>43605201

The Talisman has different themes. Like sight and discovery. The staff has a different connotation. I am just not sure what themes a staff would have. I can handle the mechanics once I have a good theme to work with.

The player does not really care as he just wanted a walking staff and wants to do martial arts at the same time so he decided to go with the staff as his shaping ritual.

Hello everyone.

If you could each have a charm for 3rd Edition Lunars, what kind of charm would it be?

>>43605224

A charm that lets gives you a counter-attack and more dice based off the mote usage of the enemies attack.

>>43605235
So something like this?


[LOL NAMES ARE HARD]
Cost: 1wp, 3i; Mins: Perception 4, Essence 1
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Counterattack, Decisive Only
Prerequisite Charms: XXXXX
Time seems to slow as the Lunar spots the trails of essence that flow from the blade and body of their attacker. Even as it heads towards them, their keen eyes snatch up the essence, and use it to fuel their own response. The Exalt may use this charm in response to any attack against them that motes were spent on. For every mote spent to augment the attack, the Lunar gets that many motes worth of free Excellency that can only be used on a counterattack that this charm creates. In addition, if more motes were spent on the charm than the attackers Guile, the Lunar learns of the aspect of their attacker’s essence, and of any ongoing charms they have active.

>>43605293
>[LOL NAMES ARE HARD]
>not "animal noises.mp3"

>>43605235
>>43605293
I don't know why, but the thing I thought of when I read that was 'Shar-Pei'

>>43605216
>just wanted a walking staff
Walking paths of life and stuff like that? Perhaps add some Xia bent with the MA and give motes for interacting with users of different styles.

>>43605235
>>43605293
Hah, I had a random idea along the "playing off of enemy attacks" charm for Lunars too.
Although in adaptability and more screw the other guy over way - either reverse or copy one of the charms enhancing the attack that they've seen before. So for example reversing Excellent Strike would double the amount of 1s to be used by the Lunar's charms rather than remove them.

>>43605423
>Although in adaptability and more screw the other guy over way - either reverse or copy one of the charms enhancing the attack that they've seen before. So for example reversing Excellent Strike would double the amount of 1s to be used by the Lunar's charms rather than remove them.

As neat as that sounds, I dunno how I'd even start to write a charm that broad.

>>43605432
Well, limit to dice-trick charms. Copy option available if in a Clash or combo with Counterattack. Limit reverse to only if it's simple enough to be done on the fly.

>>43605143
>I don't like artifacts having sorcery evocations, the talisman had none

But you can make it express evocations

>>43605460

Cruel Mockingbird Reflection
Cost:1m+, 1wp+; Mins: Perception 4, Essence 2
Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Clash, Uniform
Prerequisite Charms: [LOL NAMES ARE HARD]
[Fluff Goes Here] When the Lunar Clashes against an attack augmented by a charm, they may use this charm, adding in the cost of that charm, to mimic it perfectly. This includes all costs, including Health Levels, Initiative, and Mote costs. The Lunar needs not meet the prerequisites to mimic the charm. They may only mimic one charm per attack.

I would add in the Dice Tricks, but I'll need to fiddle with that one. Is it to your tastes so far, anyway?

If Infernals eventually evolve into baby Primordials, what do Abyssals evolve into?

>>43605547
Abyssals are dead. Dead things don't evolve.

If you mean what can they become, then they can be turned back into Solars who don't have the Great Curse anymore.

>>43605569

Abyssals are not dead. They were saved from death by the exaltation. The Dead can't exalt.

They are living people empowered by death.

>>43605569
>Abyssals are dead
But that's wrong, and you should feel bad.

>>43605582
Point still stands, the thematics of death in of itself don't exactly like evolution. Anything an Abyssal would "evolve" into would be 100% a result of self-modification or an intake of power from the Neverborn. An E10 Abyssal is just an E10 Abyssal by default.

>>43605621
But Anon, they aren't the Exalted of Death

They're the Exalted of Murder

>some guy is doing 3e charm trees
>bunch of sketches in the backrounds, looks amazing
>its a furry porn artist
GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

What's up with all the "may only be used once per scene/day/story" charms? Who actually wants to do that sort of bookkeeping?

"I have the perfect power for this situation but am hesitant to use it because I might need it later" sucks.

The reset conditions only make both issues worse.

>>43605660
Wasn't that Neph's thing or am I just crazy?

>>43605716
D&D4 pls go

>>43605716
It provides useful limits to charms that could break the game in half.

>Exalts heal bashing damage in anywhere from 1 hour to 2 days
mortals heal it in anywhere from 12 hours to 1 week

>mortals in WoD heal it in 15 minutes

The fuck is that about? Is everyone in Creation a hemophiliac?

>>43604905
>implying anything from One Piece is worth stealing

Yeah. It's ironic.

>>43605758
More people in WoD all secretly have some werewolf genes.
I want to see you trying to heal perfectly from being beaten up so badly you lose consciousness in a few hours.

>>43605690
wat

>>43605716
Holden was convinced he was going to be able to pull it off where D&D4e failed.

He lied to himself on that one.

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>When using the prerequisite, the Exalt may channel this Charm to speed her body’s natural resting processes, allowing her to get a full night’s rest in the time it takes her to meditate, restoring one Willpower and resetting any Charms that can only be used once per day, while also restoring twenty motes of Essence. Energy Restoration Prana can only be used once per day.

>>43605778
>>43605758
Forgive me if I'm remembering the system differences wrong, but the difference between bashing damage in WoD and bashing damage in Exalted is that in WoD, your health-track can be filled up multiple times.

Fill a mans health track up with bashing and it rolls over into lethal if he passes his test every turn to stay awake. Fill up the lethal track and he starts taking aggravated. Having a lethal weapon or an aggravated weapon merely lets you skip a track or two in the course of making a man dead. Exalted doesn't do damage rolling over because it'd make combat take 10 years instead of only 1.

You can absolutely beat a man so black and blue with your bare fists that he needs months to recover, but you can also knock a guy out with no lasting damage because you socked him right in the jaw and he just couldn't stay awake.

>>43605826
>Exalted doesn't do damage rolling over

Wrong

>>43605740
I can see it being appropriate for some of the charms, but for most it seems to be just extra bookkeeping.

Take Unhesitating Dedication from Integrity. You get a bonus against an instill action that goes against a defining principle. Hardly gamebreaking. You can only use this charm once per intimacy per story, however, necessitating that you keep track of which intimacies you've used it to protect. Worse - the reset condition necessitates that you keep track of the natures of the instill actions.

It's worst on the ST who has to keep track of all the terms and conditions of all the charms of all the players.

>>43605860
Most PCs will only have one or two defining principles.

>>43605845
"A character whose health track is full of bashing damage,
and who continues to take bashing damage, upgrades
his existing damaged health levels to lethal damage on a
one-for-one basis, moving from left to right across the
health track."

Well, you're right! But unlike in WoD, someone with a full track of bashing damage is rendered 100% unconscious with no save. Your incapacitated box being filled with bashing makes you unconscious; filled with lethal, and you're dead. You are incapable, without a charm, of "soldiering through" the pain and staying awake to lengthen combat. You'd have to be stabbing an unconscious person to roll damage over. Or roll way more damage than you needed on the blow that filled the incapacitated box in the first place.

>>43605821
>Every hour spent meditating using Mind Cleansing Meditation restores one of the Solar’s damaged health levels, defers her need to eat, and causes the slightest drop of water to nourish her body like a draught from the purest brook.

Man, Integrity makes Martial Arts into the immortality tree.

In terms of not getting liquefied in battle, is Dodge + Resistance viable in lieu of any combat abilities.

>>43605944
Resistance has the problem of being too expensive for what you're getting out of it until a magic point at which point you become nigh-unkillable. If you don't Supernal it, this magic point is Essence 5 Stamina 5.

If you don't want a single actual combat ability just have a decent athletics score and dodge for disengaging, though I'd really question why you wouldn't at least have a few dots of archery if you don't want to be in danger.

Can Mortals kill exalted?

>>43605987
I took War and Command merit instead. I just need something to avoid death. Plus Dodge could hopefully let me build up enough initiative to fire off a Brilliant Raptor occassionally.

I just had the silliest idea, a charm for either the Abyssals or Liminals that lets you remove part of your body and grow it into an exact copy of yourself.

>EVERYONE GET IN HERE

>B-But muh Adjoran Shintai...
That one just creates Heroic Mortal afterimages of you, I think, not sure on the Heroic Mortal bit.

>>43605994
If an E1 Exalt somehow doesn't have any actual combat charms, not even favoring a combat ability, a single Heroic Mortal can kill an Exalt

If an Exalt has excellencies from favoring combat abilities, it's going to take multiple Heroic Mortals to take him down.

If he has actual combat charms, the Mortals are going to want to set up a silly situation like poisoning his food, setting the tavern he's in on fire while he's lying in bed with a tummy-ache, and setting up an ambush with archers in the bushes.

If the Exalt is a combat-focused Dawn, he isn't scared of fighting a thousand mortal men. He might be a bit worried if they're led by a competent mortal commander.

>>43605994
It's possible, in the right circumstances and with lucky rolls.

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>>43605660
Absolutely wrong. They are Death's Lawgivers.
>>43605716
>>43605860
I like them. They allow for legend-worthy feats of skill that don't make the character a one trick pony that always spams the "best charm". The reset conditions are there explicitly to discourage the need to save them for later.
>>43605821
Yes, Integrity is good, news at 11. Dawns can do 1/day powers 4 times: 1->energy restoration prana->2->dawn reset->3->newly reset energy restoration prana
>>43606013
>That one just creates Heroic Mortal afterimages of you, I think, not sure on the Heroic Mortal bit.
Nope, you create real, actual independently thinking clones of yourself (who you then can be bffs with, romance, if that's your thing or just let them live their own lives) with all your memories, only difference being lack of Exaltation/Essence pool. Mutations carry over too IIRC.

>>43606002
Dodge on its own with minimal investment will never produce the initiative you need to shoot off Brilliant Raptor on its own. Not until Essence 3 with more than a handful of charms are you actually gaining appreciable Initiative per round;

Force-Stealing Feint gives you 1 initiative when your opponent misses an attack. Essence 2.

Flow Like Blood gives you 1 initiative every turn you aren't struck by an attack. Essence 2.

Thousand Steps Stillness gives you init for every 1 or 2 rolled on the attack roll Essence 3.

Refinement of Flowing Shadows gives you an additional 1 init per round you aren't struck starting from the moment you use Seven Shadows Evasion, but ends permanently the moment you're actually struck. Essence 5.
The Essence 1 charms merely let you maintain a solid evasion defense, disengage easily, or move back range bands when someone tries to hit you. You'll need an actual combat ability to gain initiative yourself; otherwise your only source will be using the War Charm that lets you roll Join Battle when your battle-group empties an opposing battle-groups magnitude track.

>>43606077
>Nope, you create real, actual independently thinking clones of yourself (who you then can be bffs with, romance, if that's your thing or just let them live their own lives) with all your memories, only difference being lack of Exaltation/Essence pool. Mutations carry over too IIRC.
well this proves I know nothing about anything, serves me right for trying to make an Exalted version of the Grim Patron.

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>>43606097
You can still do it with, say, an Abyssal's own blood shed in battle summoning ghosts to help them.

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Question: it's not made clear anywhere whether cestus are functionally the same as being unarmed or if they are separate weapons for the purposes of martial arts.

Anyone know if this has been clarified?

>>43606128
Well, now I'm a happy bunny. Haves some German humor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oB6DN5dYWo

>>43606145
They have different tags so are not analogous. Unarmed means no cesti / cestuses / whatever.

>>43606077
The Dawn reset only works on combat and movement charms, I don't think ERP counts for either.

>>43606145
It's a weapon, so no. In 2e it was usable with "brawling" styles when explicitly called out as a form weapon for them.

>>43606181
If it's Bridge-bought with MA charms, I don't see why it wouldn't

>>43606194
>>43606181
My bad. Still, 3 times is a lot.

Do you still need dots in Integrity to buy Bridge charms, or do you substitute dots in the ability you have the pre-reqs in?

>>43606251
You need the dots and the Essence.

>>43606090
Dang. Gues I'm stuck taking the Ifrit merit that lets you shoot fire out of your ass

>>43605690

Seriously? Where?

Could some one here explain this "natural language" thing for me?

>>43606868
Not without using technical language.

>>43606898
try me

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>>43606928