EDH/Commander General

>>43536429
I have been tempted to try rat tribal with that guy. Around how many relentless rats do you need in the deck?

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I fucking love Marrow-Gnawer.

Question of the day -

Which commander do you think is the most fun and why?

>>43536454
I made mine without any relentless rats. Honestly the relentless rat builds are stale and boring as shit. There are more than enough different rats to use.

>>43536454
>>43536476
The real Relentless Rats general is Grenzo.

Been wanting to make a new deck and I found a Diaochan in one of my boxes. So tell me what you think.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/a-lady-in-the-streets-a-traitor-in-the-sheets/

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I'm trying to talk myself out of spending 60 dollars to make my one EDH deck moderately decent.

I'm having a hard time convincing myself.

>>43536476
Oh, okay. I had a good idea of many of the other rats to use (pack rat, ink-eyes, etc)but which other rats are key cards? a lot of them just seem to be variations of everyone discards a card or are just vanilla creatures

>>43536587
What are you buying with that $60 anon?

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Comments on my budget Rakos the Defiler deck?

http://img11.deviantart.net/0ef7/i/2008/245/3/c/rakdos_the_defiler_wallpaper_by_prorogue.jpg

>>43536619
Rakdos*

>>43536619
Seems lacking, as it is just a picture of rakdos.

>>43536630
Christ I am an idiot, I need to go to bed.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rakdos-the-defiler-test/

>>43536638
and now I posted the wrong deck.

Ignore me, I am going to go to bed. Goodnight everyone.

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>>43536646
9.5/10 you tried

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>>43536611
this for my Zombie tribal with Gisa

>>43536730
Do it, those are some fun cards.

Any obscure must-haves for a Krenko goblin tribal?

>Captcha select all images of Mountains
My god

>>43536730
If you enjoy EDH, have a group to play with and have the money to spare, then why not? Those are good cards.

>>43536746
Post a list so we can see what you missed.

Can a Gaddock Teeg tax/board wipe deck with combo finishers be successful whatsoever? I feel like it should run like a more resilient Karador with less consistency maybe because of less tutors but I never hear anything about him.

>>43536765
Karadore and Teeg are very different decks. If what you want to play is Teeg then do that.

And yes he is a verry good general, but will draw a lot of hate.

>>43536763
//Artifact (18)
1 Accorder's Shield
1 Armory of Iroas
1 Bonesplitter
1 Chariot of Victory
1 Cobbled Wings
1 Darksteel Axe
1 Dragon Throne of Tarkir
1 Executioner's Hood
1 Greatsword
1 Hot Soup
1 Infiltration Lens
1 Inquisitor's Flail
1 Kite Shield
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Ogre's Cleaver
1 Pennon Blade
1 Ring of Valkas
1 Ronin Warclub

//Creature (35)
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Ben-Ben, Akki Hermit
1 Blisterstick Shaman
1 Bloodmark Mentor
1 Caterwauling Boggart
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Foundry Street Denizen
1 Frenzied Goblin
1 Goblin Arsonist
1 Goblin Balloon Brigade
1 Goblin Chariot
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Diplomats
1 Goblin Gaveleer
1 Goblin King
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Razerunners
1 Goblin Sky Raider
1 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Wardriver
1 Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Krenko's Enforcer
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Mudbrawler Cohort
1 Predator Dragon
1 Reckless One
1 Rummaging Goblin
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Tuktuk the Explorer
1 Utvara Scalper
1 Voracious Dragon
1 Zada, Hedron Grinder

//Enchantment (4)
1 Goblin Assault
1 Goblin Caves
1 Goblinslide
1 Quest for the Goblin Lord

//Instant (2)
1 Heat Ray
1 Volcanic Geyser

//Sorcery (14)
1 Blaze
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Demonfire
1 Dragon Fodder
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fireball
1 Goblin Offensive
1 Goblin Rally
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Krenko's Command
1 Kuldotha Rebirth
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Survey the Wreckage

//Tribal Instant (1)
1 Tarfire

//Land (22)
1 Goblin Burrows
1 Kher Keep
20 Mountain

>>43536746
Generator servant
Rites of Initiation
Betrothed of fire
Reckless one
Goblin war strike

>>43536782
tappedout
use it

>>43536776
I'm thinking a stall until you hit Boonweaver or any infinite recursion combo.

At the very least a lot of decks I see have no way to deal with a heavy tax.

>>43536801
I've got Reckless One but I will add those other ones
>>43536813
I will remember that for next time. I use mtgvault.

>>43536782
>22 lands
Thats cutting it close


Also I would suggest
Zo-Zu the Punisher
Goblin Matron
Moggcattcher
Goblin Piledriver

>>43536821
Yeah I was thinking about taking some creatures out for more lands. I usually have about 30.

>>43536816
use some site so I can see what all these cards do

>>43536730
Yeah, those are cool cards, and they work for a variety of different decks if need be. If you were spending your money on stuff that would be good in exactly one less-consistent commander, then I would have advised against it.

>>43536782
The number of lands seems a little low. Most EDh decks run somewhere between 32 and 40 lands, varying based on number of colours and number of mana rocks.

purphoros, god of the forge would be a cool card to include as he can do big damage with Krenko after a relatively small number of turns.

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>>43536868
You should install the AutocardAnywhere add on. Its pretty handy.

>>43536814
tax effects and mana denial is well-positioned in the overall EDH meta because it's good against midrangey decks until the ultra-late game, but it's also backbreaking against super fast combo decks.
And GW has enough tutors for creatures or enchantments that it can set up the combo with a decent amount of consistency.

the biggest problem is searching up a sac outlet, since the only good ones are Blasting Station, Altar of Dementia, Ashnod's altar and phyrexian altar. But between all the taxes and hatebear bodies, you can probably get there. I play a similar deck with Selvala at the helm.

>>43536827
I would imagine Krenko would be good at 30 to 32 lands if it's average CMC is about 2.5

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>>43536782
Get Skirk Prospector. Use with Staff of Domination.

>>43537183
>>43537136
>>43536913
>>43536821
>>43536801
Thanks everyone

>Want to do a Werewolf tribal
>No legendary werewolf
My autism no

If I wanted to build a deck on 100$, what commander would be my best option?

>>43537605
A commander that doesn't have many colours, because mana base.

>>43537605
multiplayer or french?

I can't believe I'm blanking on good draw spells to put into my blue deck.

>>43537605
Omnath, I guess. Most big green timmy cards are fairly cheap and you won't have to pay a lot for just a bunch of basic forests. Otherwise just get a pre-built one from Wizards. Can't get much cheaper than that.

>make Meren deck from scratch
>it actually works and I win my first game against Kerenaos 2-0
golgari is viable again in french now, fuck yeah

>>43537605
Purphoros, or an edited Derevi precon.

>>43537605
Prossh. He's so good he can still function decently on a budget.

>>43537605
Anything with green is pretty nice since you can get away with a cheap manabase.

Xenagos is cheap.

>>43537605
Purphoros. Then go buy an $80 fleshlight with the change.

>>43537678
Keranos is a bad Nin.

Should I get the new U/R deck or should I just make one myself.
I have probably built 15-20 edh decks, but none has had any red in it, so I want to try something with red and still can be an asshole.

>>43537803
>UR Multiplayer Commander Tier list
1. Nin
2. Jhoira
3. Firemind
4. Mizzix
5. Melek
6. Dracogenius

The rest are irrelevant in multiplayer. Now go nuts.

>>43537816
I already got a Firmind, so maybe.

Also Is there ayway to make it good without being full on combo?

>>43537803
>Mardu stax
>Grixis control
>Animar
>Maelstrom Wanderer

>>43537843
No.

Firemind isn't even good without the combo potential.

>>43537589
Innistrad set coming next year, you could be in luck.
>going back to my favorite plane
Needless to say, I'm hype. Do you think we've had enough weak sets to warrant a good one?

>>43537991
No.

>>43537991
If they keep the general theme of the original Innistrad set it could work. The only thing I'm worried about is if they try to combine Innistrad and Avacyn restored into a set not as good as either, like Battle for Zendikar was with Zendikar and Rise of the Eldrazi. That being said, battle for Zendikar was going to be 3 sets before the blocks changed, so may have suffered more than Shadows over Innistrad for which design hadn't fully started yet.

Are you getting any of the new precons?

>>43538576
BW for sure, UG maybe.

>>43538576
I'd like to get the GB one, but it's gonna get scalped to shit.

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>>43536597
Well you have pic and Ratcatcher for rat support. Skull Collector is another ogre that has synergy with the rats.

Also Kiku Night's Flower and Toshiro Umezawa should be run in the same deck for flavor points(they belonged to the same gang).

>>43538576
U/R, maybe U/G as It's basically a bonus for the guys who bought the Freyalise deck last year.

>>43538576

UR and maybe BW.

>>43538576
Ordered one of each.

>>43538634
Why? Doesn't look filled with value to me

>>43538730
Mostly because Meren and her Scourge seem to be the cards to get out of all the new ones.

>>43538753
Even then I wouldn't put either past 4€ each

>>43538634
fairly certain products sold at Walmart are impossible to scalp

So something came up yesterday while playing and it sparked a debate. A player attacked with Dragonlord Ojutai and Shadowmage Infiltrator. The defending player had no way to block them so they both got through. Another player and I started debating over how the attacker should stack the triggers. I thought he should draw first and then anticipate since he could make a more informed decision on anticipate after drawing a card. The other guy thought that he should anticipate first to clear out the cards that weren't needed and then draw a random card afterwards. There's merits to both sides, but what do you guys think?

I sort of want the red precon from last year to chuck artifacts around, but my friend already has a (shitty) artifact deck. Should I just get it anyway?

>>43539049
Let me ask you this: Does it really bother you that much that you and your friend will have similar decks?

>>43539081
No but it might bug the group. Whatever though, I'll buy it. What cards do I need to improve it out of the box?

>>43539020
In most situations you would want to see as many cards as possible, so aim for the draw and then anticipate.

For example look at the difference between Serum Vision and Preordain. One is incredibly powerful, the other not so much.

>>43539092

Hellkite Igniter and Hellkite Tyrant are both solid additions. I added Slobad to get around shit like Merciless Eviction. Also consider Kuldotha Forgemaster and Conjurer's Bauble (last one is a personal favorite more than a powerhouse card). Pia and Kiran Nalaar and the ogre that copies artifact abilities can also be decent, but they aren't what I'd consider staples.

>>43539092
Gilded Lotus, Mana Vault, Great Furnace, Darksteel Citadel, Hedron Archive, Nev's Disk, Darksteel Forge, and whatever other good artifacts you want. If money isn't an issue you can also add Lion's Eye Diamond and Grim Monolith to make the deck even better.

>>43539130
You know Preordain is banned in modern right? Its better then Serum Visions.

>>43539092
Sculpting Steel

>>43539190
I think that's what he meant.

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So I'm doing Edric Elfball atm. Was bored with the usual mono g Ezuri fuckery, so I added some blue.

Is there some auto includes? I'm not doing your standard Edric build with a shit load of unblockabels, but rather elf tribal with edric synergy. I there any elf's that come with some kind of evasion and also work good in tribal?

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Staple cards in Alesha? I ordered a Mother of Runes and am using PucaTrade to get a Drana and Grafted Wargear.

Next week the new decks come out and I want to get the BW Enchantment deck. What should I add to it?

>>43539233
Was Silhana Ledgewalker an elf? I liked that one.

>>43539220
I thought so too, but if you read it again you'll see he thinks Serum visions is better. No doubt because its a 7 dollar card and Preordain isn't.

>>43539255
It's very much an elf.

>>43539190
I was assuming in a vacuum and not digging for combo pieces.

>>43539282
Why would you put your cards in a vacuum? Sounds like a bad idea.

But no seeing what you're about to draw before drawing is better more often then just randomly drawing.

>>43539241
Pretty much all the Death and Taxes staples seem like obvious inclusions. Aether Vial, Thalia, Flickerwisp, etc.

>Guy playing Sidisi activates Shaman of Forgotten Ways
>drops everyone's life total to 5 or 6
>Daxos guy is super salty because he was at 47 life late game
>tfw topdecking Cyclonic Rift, making Gideon a 5/5 and swinging with my board at 3 remaining players for the win

The greatest feel

I don't know. Should I build Papa Purph, Bosh or Thassa? How many ways does red have to recur artifacts from the graveyard?

>>43539351
not many, but with the usual colorless recursion it can work.
goblin welder
trash for treasure
daretti
scrap mastery

>>43539351
>>43539431
There's also a bunch of colorless options, such as;
Trading Post
Myr Retriever
Junk Diver
Arcbound Reclaimer

>>43539049
[Spoiler] mindslaver [/spoiler]

>>43539233
coiling oracle
prophet of kruphix

Why wasn't Prophet of Kruphix in the UG deck? Or Consecrated Sphinx? Feels like a missed opportunity

>>43539590
>>43539608
Shitposters pls go

>>43539241
Karmic guide
Mentor of the meek
Fiend hunter
Siege-gang commander
Viscera seer
Reveillark
Grand Abolisher
Blood Artist
Sin Collector
Entomb
Buried alive
there are a bunch of other nifty little creatures that work well with her ability too

>>43539621
Sorry, I genuinely thought prophet worked really well with the whole elfball strategy

>>43539656
Oh, also avalanche riders, murderous redcap and bone shredder

Is this the first commander edition not to have anything relevant for legacy/vintage?

>>43539675
It does, but it is an recent card that already has a few printings and is often considered a miserably unfun card to play against. Because these products are intended for newer players and they aren't meant to be brutal powerhouses, Prophet was likely omitted on purpose.

Consecrated Sphinx can go and stay go.

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Ok, i have been playing about with mizzix. I was building a Melek deck but now i want to turn it into a mizzix deck and i have a few questions.

1. Does mizzix reduce the cost of X spells?

2. Do X spells have a cmc of X + the rest of their cost on the stack?

3. If so, does that mean that every single X spell i cast have a higher cmc than the number of experience counters i have?

4. Can mizzix reduce alternate or additional costs?

So if all that is yes's: I have mizzix and three experiennce counters, i pay a single red and cast fireball, x = 3. I get an experience counter, then i pay another red and cast banefire, x = 4, getting a fifth counter. Then i cast an overloaded Cyclonic Rift for 1U and a kicked Rite Of Replication for 2UU. Are these all legal plays?

>>43539787
Yes.

>>43539736
I think they've been pretty careful this time. I like it. All the cards are amazing in EDH, but not really all that great outside of it.

>>43539787
>>43539814
Id double check the alternate/additional costs stuff. Anon may very well be right but sometimes they cause weird shit with those sorts of things.

Building a MIzzix list with a Dragonstorm component having trouble cutting 3 cards from somewhere. The Forest is a Mizzix's Mastery

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mizzix-of-the-dragonstorm/

>>43539787
mizzix will reduce the cost of x spells and add more experience counters for x spells as on the stack the CMC of the x spell will be the total mana spent to play it.

It can only reduce actual casting costs, and can't be used to reduce the cost of extra parts eg. kicker, strive, entwine, etc.

>>43539935
Mizzix reduces alt costs though, right? Like Overload and shit

>>43539814
>>43539844
>>43539935
Thanks guys, i just checked the comp rules, i cant copy it because im on my phone, but 601.2e states: The total cost is the mana cost or alternate cost plus and additional costs or cost increases minus any reductions. This makes me want to say that it reduces kicker and overload. What makes you disagree, >>43539935 ?

>>43537755
It's not the same deck you dofus. Keranos's main objective is land destruction while nin just runs ruination. Keranos is also better vs aggro and midrange while nin is good against control

>>43539999
I'm not entirely sure. It would be cool if it did though to cast an overloaded cyclonic rift for U

>>43540039
I was reading the rules about 3 days ago in one of these threads and people couldn't make up their mind if it worked or not

>>43540039
Also, what do you guys think a Mizzix deck will have that a Melek one won't? So far im thinking i cut telling time for anticipate, have less top of deck manipulation and maybe a coulple more Fork effects. High mana cost stuff like delve seems really good as itll almost always give you a counter

>>43540039
Not that anon, but Im fairly certain that Kicker doesnt actually add to the CMC and cant actually be reduced by this sort of thing. I think Entwine is the same but Strive might be different because of its wording (increase the cost of this spell by X for each creature).

If Im correct, alternate costs can be reduced (such as Overload) but not additional costs (such as Kicker). Too bad theres not an ask a judge up.

Whoa, since when did I need to enter all that fucking personal information to log onto woogerworks?

>>43540067
>>43540090
I was the one asking. >>43540039 is right. Turns out it does affect kicker etc, which are added to the cost, then you get your discount.

>>43540090
gA's holy word is sorely missed.

Everyone seems to be at the consensus that alternate works but additional doesnt, but i cant find anything in the comp rules that says this

>>43539241
Imperial Recruiter

>>43540179
Is there just not a thread up, or did he stop posting? Man, it's gonna suck having 2-3 mtg rule questions thread every couple days if he left.

>>43540265
I havent seen him in a while, which may just mean Im checking at the wrong times. Hes slowed down from what I can tell in the least.

>>43540179
additional costs are also reduced by cost reduction affects.

>"The total cost is the mana cost or alternate cost plus any additional costs or cost increases minus any reductions"

all of the additional costs (like kicker or entwine) and the primary cost (mana cost or alternative such as overload) are rolled up into one number and then cost reductions are applied

>>43540250
Or you could buy every other decent creature with power 2 or less

>>43540290
Oh, okay. I think I was getting confused with the rulings for casting with flashback or copies, where you can't pay for alternate casting costs but can pay for extra things like kicker.

Will Karlov be played in legacy?

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>>43540308

>>43540308
No. He can get big quickly, but it requires a lot of lifegain first, which takes up the resources of playing decent stuff that can actually help.

>>43540308
I't a 2 card combo with lifegain that needs the lifegain to be good, the lifegain is useless without Karlov, and he's a vanilla 2/2 without the lifegain.
He doesn't protect himself and he doesn't win the game on the spot, you are trying to make your entire game plan around a guy who needs more creatures to be relevant and has no evasion, for what? I big beater?

>>43539916
maybe lightning bolt, ral zarek, and a land or two?
you should definitely have scourge of valkas in there if you are going to be dragonstorming people.

>>43540308
as a casual deck, maybe, but there aren't really any lifegain cards that are worth using without him, and few worth using with him.

>>43540292
You can tutor whatever you want with it, while reanimating it, the discard it to reanimate later or cast as needed. Recruiter is GOOD for Alesha.

>>43540467
True, but is it worth the cost for someone who hasn't even got the rest of the deck together yet? It's kinda pricey.

>>43540510
Proxies are a thing. Spice it up, make it foil, update the rules text, use alternate artwork, all that!

>>43540694
Proxies aren't legal in EDH

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>>43533335
>http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/lorans-smile-2014-10-27
This reminds me, they need to make a legendary card for Ashnod. Maybe Tawnos while we're at it, but everyone who plays Commander knows her altar.

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>playing Bosh last night
>killing every other player by throwing a depleted Ring of Three Wishes at someone

THIS IS THE FUNNEST DECK EVER OH MY GOOOOOD

>>43540705
Go fuck yourself. People are allowed to proxy as much as they fucking want in a non-sanctioned format. Don't let the shitty Reserve List and bullshit card prices get in the way of playing this format like every other sanctioned format out there.

Touting around your "real" cards that you paid a hundred dollars a piece just to make your mana base work is nothing to be proud of, and I say that as a person who has those cards. I don't expect someone else to NOT play the format because they don't have real cards.

>>43540721
Mycosynth Lattice
Hellkite Tyrant

>>43540746

I agree with you, but at every FNM you go to for casual EDH night you know there's going to be that one cumstain that gets uppity because you're using a proxied ABUR land or something that's equally as expensive.

>>43540841
well they can go fuck themselves because most other people won't care.

>>43540746
I don't like spending money on cards only for some 12 year old to turn up with Hermit Druid in proxies and shit all over me.

>>43541189
Exactly. I've seen people with 100 sharpied basics way too often. If someone shows up with proxy I won't even bother playing unless it's to test card that haven't come out yet

>>43540766
Sounds neat but not for me. I essentially set up an army and played defense until someone attacked me, then I sacced blockers before combat damage for gigantic amounts of damage to the dome. Basically made it suicide to try and attack me

Bloodshot Cyclops is amazing for tokens you can get from Precursor Golem and Hammer of Purphoros

>>43541241

Proxies with a bit of finesse to them I don't mind, but this shit drives me up the wall. Like damn nigga it doesn't cost that much in printer in to just sleeve printed proxies in with basic lands. Just have on it somewhere "I am a proxy" and its fine.

>>43540746
Not the guy you were responding to, but I think the general accepted attitude for proxies Ive seen is its ok if:
>Youre testing a high dollar card to make sure its worth it
>Youve ordered it or plan on ordering it soon
>You own a copy already but its in a different deck (I do this one personally with the more expensive cards)

Of those three I think only the third one would really fly at an FNM or pick up game at a FLGS.

>>43541241
>proxying basics

>>43541450
>2015
>running basics

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>>43541557

>>43540705
According to whom?

>>43540721
My friend built a midrange Sydri deck based around animating things like Ring of Three Wishes, Spine of Ish Sah, and Akroma's Memorial. He doesn't even bother with land destruction or combos.

Getting slapped with a 7/7 Lifelink Deathtouch recurrable spine is not fun.

What do I put in a Vela deck? My other deck is Storm so I need something that's not as good

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How welcoming are people to new players for edh on mtgo? I've legit never touched a game of edh before thanks to my only local store closing before I had a chance to, so I'm looking to do it on mtgo instead.

i know its mtgo but its better than nothing

>>43541706
Play on Xmage, it's way better.

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>>43539320
>>43539656
>>43539718

Thanks for the suggestions bros, I already have Fied Hunter, Siege-Gang, Sin Collector and Murderous Redcap in the deck.

I'm on a bit of a budget but I'll eventually pick up a Vial and Recruiter too.

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Favorite equipment? For me nothing beats Sunforger. It's one of my favorite cards of all time.

>>43536730
>Ghoulcaller Gisa equipped with Thornbite Staff
That sounds like fun, goddamn.

Speaking of proxies, how about this shit:

> Go to local EDH night
> Sit with some people I've played against before, start bullshitting
> Guy I've never seen before but some of the other guys recognize comes up, wants to start a game
> Everyone pulls out decks, this mother fucker pulls out a tablet and brings up the deck tester on Tappedout
> Literally starts to play a game on his tablet, can't see anything going on because of the glare, he keeps fucking up and drawing extra cards and shit because tappedout is garbage on a touchscreen
> I'm just speachless and after a few turns say I forgot I needed to buy some cards before the league games start and scoop up my shit

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>>43541910
Sword of Vengeance. It's the perfect voltron package in one card.

>>43541910
I don't use equipments because I'm a degenerate combofag :(

Might be Thornbite Staff though. Nemesis Mask is fun too. Skullclamp is great but I only run it because I have to.

>>43541958
That's some real bullshit. I've used TappedOut to goldfish decks and my roommate used it once to test his Standard deck against mine, but it's not fun to use that way. Especially in an actual game of EDH. What the fuck.

In my opinion, you should only use paper proxies when you plan to get the cards eventually, not as eternal replacements for an ABUR dual you can't afford. Live within your means, etc

>>43541910
>>43542080
Skullclamp is great for combofags like us.

This is off-topic because it wasn't in an EDH game, but when I was in high school I was playing in a 2v2 team match with Auriok Steelshaper+Genesis Chamber+Skullclamp in an Affinity shell. In one turn, I drew my whole deck and killed both of my opponents, then just for fun I killed my teammate too.

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>>43541910
Call me boring, but nothing beats good ol' Lightning Greaves for me. For my second favorite and I guess a more unique answer, see pic related.

>>43541958
That's pretty garbage. I would have said something.

>>43542134
Well, that's going in Bosh

>>43542224
And when you're finished, you can throw it at them!

>>43541371
I'm pretty sure in most cases nobody would even mind if you just printed a HD scan of a Duo Land, cut it out in the right size and stuffed it into a sleeve with a promo card or normal land.

>>43542224
>>43542246
Fun fact: when you use Bosh to throw the Bracers at someone... it's doubled.

>>43541726
>finally finish my Wrexial deck today
>test it
>mill like a motherfucker
>finally swing someone's face, anticipating to copy his "Take another turn" sorcery
>prompt to choose something comes up
>won't let me select any card
Thanks, XMage!

>>43542260
I'm pretty sure you're wrong there because the ability is only activated after costs have been paid among other things, which means the bracers don't see themselves being thrown.

>>43539746
>considered a miserably unfun card to play against.
Worst card ever printed.
Playing actual solitaire would be more fun because at least I could move some cards around without being interrupted.

>>43541958
we had a guy who couldn't find his actual commander so he pulled a .jpg of it on his phone, but I've never heard of someone doing some shit like that

>>43542280
>play magic for free
>one bad thing happens
>complain

>>43542283
>Worst card ever printed.
>Playing actual solitaire would be more fun because at least I could move some cards around without being interrupted.
It's actually worse to play against, as a play experience, than fucking Sensei's Divining Top even. At least players with Top can be quick if they learn to do so. With Prophet, it's literally "imma take some more turns now thxguyz" and you can't do shit about it. The only thing I've seen that makes Prophet worse than normal is when someone uses it to slam down a Lighthouse Chronologist and max-level it in a single turn, then passes to someone else and Prophet lets them defend it. Fuck, that is so horrible to deal with.

>>43542304
>people aren't allowed to be disappointed because shit is broken still
I bet you'd also be against people being pissy because a gift they got broke due to a manufacturing mistake.

>>43536597
Crypt Rats are great, especially with a protection from black sword on them. Infected Vermin aren't too bad either. Nezumi Graverobber is great. Nezumi Shortfang can put in work. Pestilence Rats and Swarm of Rats are pretty good with Marrow-Gnawer. Skullsnatcher is decent graveyard hate. Throat Slitter is good removal. Typhoid Rats are are good 1/1 deathtouch for 1. Mutavault is a rat. Lab Rats is expensive for it's buyback, but it can get the ball rolling when needed. Thornbite Staff with marrow-gnawer and one other rat is infinite die triggers. With two other rats it's infinite rats.

You're not going to be playing all the optimal cards, but it's a pretty fun lower powerlevel deck to play.

>>43542399
Good sweet lord that's horrific.
That's turns 2.5 turns for every other player's turn. How do you not just instantly win at that point.

>>43542147
The other 2 people seemed cool with it, so I didn't want to be the sperg and make a scene.

>>43541958
I feel like trying this now to see how butthurt people would get

>>43542548
You would not have been the sperg in that situation.

I almost guarantee he would have shit himself if you were to even say something like, "I don't think I really want to play this match, I can't even see your boardstate."

>>43541910
I've never used it, is it wrath on a stick?

>>43542507
He just sat there and defended his boardstate and made no attempt to win. It turns out, his win con was Laboratory Maniac and a lot of mana for a big Blue Sun's Zenith to draw his deck.

He also, to try and dig faster for the pieces, cloned Chronologist and max-leveled the clone instantly too.

SO. MUCH. BULLSHIT. It was bad to the point that the only out we had *as a table* was one guy's Sudden Spoiling, which he just couldn't get to fast enough (tried multiple times to tutor for it, but U/G Fuckstick always had counterspells with backup counterspells for when one of us tried to help stop this madness).

That game single-handedly damaged a friendship and drove two people away from EDH for about 6 months.

>>43542653
It's whatever you need on a stick my friend.

>>43542653
It's a repeatable source of whatever you need. Sunforger is probably the best RW card and I run it in every deck with those two colors.

>>43542303
Eh, that's fine, in my opinion. The tablet thing >>43541958 posted sounds like several levels of shit.

Whats the best reanimator commander? Thinking about building Teneb but having to hit the player is kind of rough. Preferably more then one color.

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friendly reminder

>>43542865
You can run mimeoplasm, he's awesome for reanimation, or Karador Ghost Chieftain. Alternatively you can run karlov cause apparently that card is super insane and the deck that's build around it can do everything and is legacy playable and will tear the French edh scene a new asshole according to one anon

>>43542653
>>43542688
there is no wrath you can tutor with it
in fact i feel like there aren't that many high impact cards you can tutor with it at all, just targeted removal spells or like tithe i guess

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>>43542868
>green cost of the ability
>monoblack
What.

>>43542260
Bracers would stay equipped for double damage from saccing something

>>43542868
Where do you think you are right now?

>>43542937
That's been a thing for a while. It's a sultai card so it fits into bug colorless philosophy

>>43542548
It's not being a sperg. More like being reasonable because you can't see his board, and he can't even get his shit to work

>>43542668
Laboratory Maniac as a win is for slow shitters I say with my casual Dredge Combo the best UG combo win is make infinite mana and then deck everyone else out of the game.

>>43542968
>bug colorless
>monoblack
I don't know what you're talking about any more.

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>>43542968
>sultai
>monoblack
>card ability requires green
>green has no issues with enchantments
What.

>>43542968
haha what

>>43543055
Don't worry, anon, I'm sure once Return to Theros comes out we'll get a mono-black version of Mortify.

Considering that Wizards has deemed it OK for red and black to get enchantment removal for 7 colorless mana, why are they still adamant on not giving them any enchantment cards in-color?

Something like
>Death to the White Players - 3BBB
>Sorcery
>Target player sacrifices an enchantment, then loses 2 life.

It would still be overcosted and suck ass, but it wouldn't ruin the game right?

>>43543170
Colour pie. Blue doesn't get creature destruction just because Nev's Disk exists.

>make a deck with 50 planeswalkers, 40 lands, rhystic study and 8 mana rocks
>win every time
party hard

>>43543170

Using artifacts or colorless spells isn't the same as the color getting spells itself. The options are supposed to be limited.

>>43543170
maro would throw a fit about the filthy savages raping his precious color pie.

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Anybody else know people who are just awful to play against?

>guy who used to come to our group
>stacks lands up in a single pile and puts them off to the side
>when he makes tokens he uses a die, but then puts them on top of his cards which makes them look like +1/+1 counters
>only partially taps his permanents, barely distinguishable from his untapped permanents
>puts permanents in no distinguishable order, just clusterfucked around his area
>always wants to back plays up to the point of being ridiculous
>the kind of guy who tries to sound like he knows the rules front and back, but doesn't actually know what the fuck he's talking about for even basic rules
>refuses to keep visual track of his life, only keeps track in his head (and is never right about what his life total is)

He doesn't show up too often anymore, but when he does, I just don't play with him anymore. I just can't fucking stand it.

>>43543233
>>43543242
but how can monoblack answer enchantments?

>>43543213
Pognify? Rapid Hybridization?

>>43543213
>>43543233
Yeah, but black gets edict effects and stax-like stuff with Pox and Descent Into Madness. Wouldn't forcing an opponent to sacrifice an enchantment be OK? I don't understand why a permanent being a different supertype makes it so different.

>>43543287
They can't, unless they force the opponent to discard it before it's cast.

>>43543291
I'm saying that artifacts aren't the reason blue gets creature removal. Blue get removal because Wizards is incompetent.

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>>43543287

>>43542936
You're right about there not being a wrath it can get, and it's a bit mana hungry, but it's utility is amazing. Sunforger can get so many great cards. Fork, Wild Ricochet, Return to Dust, Path, Swords, Boros Charm, just to name a few.

>>43543287
monoblack isn't meant to be able to answer enchantments. that's the color's "weakness"

>>43543287
It makes them discard the cards before they cast them

>>43542868
What is this a reminder of?

>>43543386
a very tired and retarded argument about how does monoblack deal with enchantments. one retard said "show me a black card that can kill enchantments" and another retard who was trying to be a smartass posted a picture of a black creature with an ability that requires green mana and the whole shit toboggan just rolled down the hill from there.

>>43543303
>I don't understand why a permanent being a different supertype makes it so different
I mean, I do understand why a creature is different than an artifact, because black mages deal with necromancy and death magic and artifacts aren't always alive.

What I don't get is why it's IMPOSSIBLE to deal with artifacts and enchantments. What's wrong with it being more difficult and clumsy, costing like 5 or 6 mana for white's 2-mana Disenchant?

>>43543402
Wow. Wish I could say that was surprising.

>>43543407
Mono black actually has limited access to artifact destruction.

>>43543407
Regardless of the reason, I think it makes games more interesting. Different colour players have to cooperate to deal with different threats. Everyone has a role.

>>43543373
how come blue can answer anything, then?
>>43543328
that's not monoblack
>>43543377
what if they topdeck one and then cast it? how does monoblack answer that?

>>43543407
Because if every color can do everything (which is what your logic leads to) then there's no reason to play multicolor. In fact, there probably wouldn't be a reason to play anything but white since the color can answer literally everything while also has excellent threats, both early and late game ones.

>>43543477
>how come blue can answer anything, then?
Because despite what they say, Wizards still plays favourites.

>>43543477
>how come blue can answer anything, then?

R&D's favorite

>>43543467
No it doesn't. If anything it has a lot of cards specifying non artifacts

>>43543170
Wizards are very autistic about what is ok to bleed in the color pie and what is not.

Every color should be able to do everything, certain colors just do things better than others, see Languish vs. Ezuri's Predation

>>43543493
It can't draw cards well with the exception of mentor of the meek, puresteel paladin and a few cantrips. It can get plains to hand though.

>>43543477

Blue can only "answer" things while they're on the stack. That's the weakness in Blue's answers. the only way Blue can deal with a resolve artifact/enchantment is by bouncing it and then countering if (if they have the mana/cards) on it's way back in (but that's still a 2-for-1 so). Blue can "answer" creatures but they're always getting a creature in return so it's always a temporary answer (or a 2-for-1 anyways).

People who think blue can do everything are retarded. Especially when White can literally answer any permanent.

>>43543493
The way I see it, there's more reasons to play multicolor than monocolor in every MTG format. If monocolor decks had inefficient cards to shore up their weaknesses, multicolor decks would still be able to play only the most efficient cards in each color.

We're already seeing this with stuff like Spine of Ish Sah and Scour From Existence anyway.

Are there any other effects like Pentavus that can create artifact tokens on command in mono-red? You can probably guess which commander this is for.

>>43543682
Myr Incubator, off the top of my head. Does the card need to be a creature, or an artifact?

>>43543700
Myr Turbine, I mean. Sorry.

I don't run it myself, but my buddy's Arcum deck sure does.

>>43543640
That's the point. If every color could do everything, then white could also draw cards and thus solve it's big weakness. Because of the versatility of its answers, there wouldn't be a reason to play other colors then. Just play the color that can answer everything, has threats and ways to replenish that hand, no matter how inefficient. This is one of the reasons why WU decks are so common in standard, to the point they basically show up in every standard.

>>43543700
>>43543714
Has to be an artifact. For welding purposes.

>>43543477
blue's only solid answer to anything is counterspells. every other answer they have is temporary, like returning to hand, or destroying a creature and replacing it with another creature. splashing blue gives most color combinations a very powerful edge because of it's wide range of answers, even if they're soft answers. you don't see many competitive monoblue decks outside of fish which relies heavily on tempo and countering the right spell at the right time, while having many unfavorable match ups.

>>43542968
Nigga lrn2Apocalypse

>>43543682
Hammer of Purphoros
Precursor Golem, sorta

Daretti?

>>43543751
Yup, and Precursor Golem works ok even though it's triggered. Thanks.

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>>43543682

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So /tg/. What are some must includes into the new commander deck to make it good?
Was thinking the likes of gissa and grave pact.
Any other nice techs?

>>43543682
Key and Peele Nalaar? Thopter engineer? Goblin Kaboomist?
Red is kinda new to the artifact thing and isn't fully there with making artifacts yet

>>43543820
>key and peele nalaar
I don't get it

>>43543855
Kiran (Key) and Pia (Peele).

>>43543820
You should be ashamed of yourself. :^)

>>43543855
Comedy duo. Their name sounds like Kiran and Pia

How do I make a U/G Ezuri deck with lots of huge islandwalking sea creatures but also some token generation? I really want to run the new Kiora and Tromokratis in this.

I tried artifact things, but it really doesn't work too well. What would be some great U/G sorceries to flood the board with 2> power tokens?

>>43543807
ooh, very nice.

>>43543820
I really want something that I can reuse though. The thing about Pentavus that's great with Welder/Daretti is that it can create tokens to weld with, sac himself to make the last token, and then get welded back in. The red token generators, although quite good, aren't really the same. I might still look into some of them but for the most part they don't seem that great.
[spoilers]I chuckled at Key and Peele Nalaar though.[/spoilers]

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>>43543855

I've decided I want my next deck to be a B/G deck with a lot of reanimation going on. Not necessarily combo, but just good, consistent beatdown. I want to be resilient through board wipes, and just keep brining out dudes. Multiplayer setting, so It needs good board presence too.

What's a good General for this kind of playstyle?
It looks like my options are >>43543817, Sisters of stone death, Jarad for value, Savra control, or Glissa the traitor for artifact stuff (pretty good with spine of ish sha im guessing).

It seems Meren is actually fitting my critera, since she stays relevant through multiple wraths.

>>43543468
why is blue's role beating everything always?

>>43543650
but blue can answer resolved artifacts and enchantments by simply stealing them. blue can answer literally anything on the stack or off of it - whereas other colors cannot answer anything on the stack and cannot answer many things on the board either. stealing things is a 2 for 1 in your own favor, too. blue can do literally everything. white may be able to kill any permanent, but that only makes it the second most overpowered retard color. meanwhile black and red have entire permanent types they simply are not allowed to answer because "every color needs a weakness" except of course for blue and white.

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>>43543726
>every other answer they have is temporary

>>43544018
>why is blue's role beating everything always?
So everyone has someone to team up on.

>>43543817
Better mana, obviously
Volrath's Stronghold
Grim Backwoods
Grim Haruspex
Ogre Slumlord
Birthing Pod
Survival of the Fittest/Fauna Shaman
Greater Good
Fecundity
Hell's Caretaker

That's the cards off the top of my mind right now. I'm sure there's plenty more.

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>>43543600
Wow anon, sick no artifact destruction black has. This and curse artifact sure don't exist.

>>43544018
Because MaRo plays blue

>>43543942
Jesus Christ anon I laughed inappropriately loud at work from that.

>>43544101
>already on its way to the graveyard

i'll always love the old comfy wordings

>>43541910
Ditto.
I fucking love it, if you've got Mistveil Plains you can also just keep using the same instant turn after turn.

>>43543874
I couldn't remember the actual names off the top of my head

>>43543726
>you don't see many competitive mono blue decks outside of fish

this is an EDH thread. watchyutalmbout, nigga?

>>43543726
Talrand and 48 counterspells say hello.

>>43544101
Curse artifact is a piece of shit. but, Gate to Phyrexia is just almost ok. meaning it'll work i guess.

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>>43544122
I like how they had to explain how tokens work.

>>43544234
>If the Hive is destroyed, the Wasps must still be killed individually.
Cute, for some reason.

>>43544101
>Exactly 2 cards from 20 years ago
Not really enough to prove it's in the colour pie. They still hadn't fully worked out what each colour did back then, and artifact destruction in black certainly isn't in modern bordered magic.

>>43544234
Good god

>>43544340
>mono black has limited access to artifact destruction
>no it doesn't
>examples
Sick goalpost moving baka sempai desu

>>43544374
wait so you're admitting you're wrong? why are you talking about goalposts?
confused anon here
cuz it sounds like you're admitting you are wrong but then you say something about goalposts that makes no sense?
are you an retarded, anon? it's ok to admit it.

>>43540308

If he was 1/1 with lifelink for the same cost, maybe

>>43544234
>5 for a 1/1 flier

>>43544340
Right, it's not in the color pie, but those 2 cards do fit the requirements...

Which means black has limited artifact removal.

>>43544424
You can't into reading comprehension can you?

Not even that anon, but you sound pretty retarded yourself

>>43544424
"examples" refers to anon posting examples showing that black does indeed have (very limited) access to artifact destruction. Then >>43544340 is moving the goal post to "artifact destruction is not black's role in the color pie".

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>>43542653

You're thinking of this

was a lot more fun before Theros and its gods

>>43544374
A rare colour pie violation doesn't mean that that effect is part of that colour's slice now. The fact that those cards are 20 years old, and we haven't had the like since, demonstrates that.

>>43544490
plays well with Zurgo

>>43544490
That's like turbo-wrath since it destroys everything

>>43544493
>Mono black actually has limited access to artifact destruction.
>No it doesn't. If anything it has a lot of cards specifying non artifacts

Who the fucking fuck was talking about the color pie? one anon said that black had limited artifact removal, another anon claimed that it didn't.

There are examples of cards that prove that it does have access to artifact removal. Everyone knows it is not in that slice of the color pie, but that doesn't make the two examples that anon gave invalid examples.

Demonstrating something that doesn't matter to the discussion, surprisingly, doesn't fucking matter

>>43544544

Zurbo Bellstriker can just be repeatedly cast from the Command zone through his Dash ability.

>The fact that those cards are 20 years old, and we haven't had the like since, demonstrates that.

On a simialr note, dark ritual is now out of color pie

Desperate ritual is more accurate

>>43544570
Ah, fair call.

>>43544589
The commander tax still applies even with Dash.

>>43544589
Or you can just use something with Indestructible so you don't have to repeatedly cast your commander over and over.

>>43541685
Nah I like direct damage so that's not for me

Chris Bosh best Golem

>>43544619
No, dark ritual has been reprinted a few times, and was referenced recently in dark petition, so has been grandfathered in, though only happens rarely

>>43544673
But it returns to hand where it can be cast again without tax

>>43544775
Very true

I thought you meant you were just paying his Dash cost regardless of how many times he's popped from the command zone

>>43543968
Jarad is pretty fucking sweet, can do some crazy shenanigans, also works well with Savra in the 99 and the new commanders from this year's precon.

Mikaeus allows for some resilience through board wipes and some serious combo capability. You may want to look into making him instead of a BG thing.

Any Meren bros around? Can you please rate my deck: http://deckstats.net/deck-8252563-9fff0e1f6045233a897f699b142fe6e8.html

Keep in mind that this is supposed to be a duel commander(french) deck. Feel free to post your own Meren decks.

>>43544754
dark petition has literally no connection to dark ritual at all

>>43543817

I think Awakening Zone and the new Awakening Zone are both decent since they give you on demand creatures to sac and mana ramp in one.

Darksteel or Blightsteel Colossus?

>>43545128
Darksteel if you want your friends to have fun, Blightsteel if you want to win.

>>43545148
>Blightsteel if you want to lose to clone and bribery

Ftfy

>>43545026
Not bad, looks pretty decent. Only change I would probably make is adding one/both of the Altars, Mikaeus for double ETB/LTB, and another board wipe.

Some of the creatures are meh but I understand the theme you're going for with the ETBs.

>>43544068

Steal magic is very over costed. These effects only get played in EDH because EDH is a format designed around big effects.

A lot of color pie whiners don't seem to realize that EDH =/= the rest of magic.

>>43544018

>by stealing them

The only steal effects that really see any play outside of EDH are Threads of Disloyalty and Veldaken Shackles. Most of them are too overpriced to see any plat in eternal formats.

EDH is an exception because casual EDH groups usually build big swingy plays, and steal effects are strong there.

>White may be able to kill any permanent, but that only makes it the second most overpowered retard color

In what format? White is awful in Modern and EDH, and it's power in Standard is fairly variable (as is every other color's power in the format).

>red and black have entire permanent types they simply are not allowed to answer

Red and Black are the best colors in Modern, Red has SEVERAL different deck types present in all formats, and Black is probably the 2nd/3rd best color in EDH. If you think Red/Black suck, you're probably shitty at this game. The thing about White/Blue being able to "answer any permanent" is that their answers are very inefficient or costly while Black/Red answer their permanents with incredible efficiency. The same with Green, which can answer anything except creatures with reckless abandon.

>>43545148
>>43545187
Blightsteel, got it.

>>43545240
do you even read the title of the thread you're posting in?
jesus christ lmao
>cost efficiency
yeah if only we were playing a format where fucking mana crypt was legal eh? sure would help us power out those expensive cards. oh well...

god you blue mana apologists are the worst. when faced up against pure logic you just shift the goalposts to >b-b-b-but it costs more mana
which is particularly ironic because blue can counterspell anything for 2, 1, or even 0 mana no matter how expensive it is, which is basically the most cancer thing ever

>>43544424
Are you literally retarded?

>>43545349
M8, calm the fuck down, it's not like you can't play blue decks or anything

>>43545240
White has the best, cheapest removal in every format at the moment.

Swords, Path, Silkwrath/Stasis Snare.
Black is fucking garbage in modern aside from Tasigur and a few 1 mana discard spells.

>>43545220
>adding one/both of the Altars
Thanks, I totally forgot about Ashnod's Altar believe it or not. Will totally try that one out, not sure what second altar you're referring to.

>Mikaeus
I might test him out, but at 6 cmc I'm not sure the undying on everyone is worth it, especially since it doesn't work on Meren. Wouldn't know who to take out for him.

>another board wipe
Haven't really been struggling with creature based decks all that much so will probably not include damnation for now.

Thanks for the suggestions

>>43545502
The second altar is Phyrexian Altar, the somewhat more expensive cousin that produces a single mana of any color.

>>43545349

>blue can counterspell anything for 2, 1, or 0 mana

Unless it's uncounterable sure, but don't forget that if it's a creature black can remove it for 2, 1, or even 0 mana

and if it's an artifact red/green/white can remove it for 2, 1, or even 0 mana

and if it's an enchantment white/green can remove it for 2, 1, or even 0 mana and these colors can remove their permanents at any time and not just while it's on the stack i guess i can see why you might be so bummed about blue you know

also, EVERY color can use Mana Crypt to ramp out dumb shit. If you ramp out your dumb shit and blue steals it, too bad I guess? Maybe play bigger dumber shit or not play into their stealing magic? How many of the top tier EDH decks even run stealing magic anyways? Not to mention the fact that green really is the best color in EDH.

>>43545438

White is pretty garbage in Modern. It has strong sideboard cards but a lot of it's main board stuff just isn't worth it. I think the only really good white decks are like Abzan Midrange.

Black is in Azban, Jund, "Grixis" and has Thoughtsieze, Inqusition (perhaps the best turn ones you can get aside from Goblin Guide), Lilianna of the Veil, Slaughter Pact, Dark Confidant...Black's fine in Modern. It's better than fine.

>>43545502
You only have 6 Humans out of about 40 creatures, most of those have relevant ETBs, and Mikaeus allows you to double up on their ability.

6 mana can be hefty but he also allows you survive a board wipe mostly unscathed, double up ETB/LTB, double up EXP counters from creature death, anthem the majority of your creatures, and get double sac effects on non tokens. The only times I'm ever disappointed to draw Mikaeus is if I'm fucked on mana.

Also, I just thought of Grave Titan.

>>43544424
This post made me cringe.

No re mach tho

>>43536597
crypt rats + whip of erebos normally closes out a game

>>43545568
>other color can remove [specific type of permanent] for cheap
i mean yeah sure, so what?
so every color that's not white or blue can remove specific permanents from the field for cheap, but blue can counter literally any kind of permanent spell as well as actual instants and sorceries from the stack for cheap. so if it ended there it would already be clear that blue is given a much larger piece of the pie. but furthermore blue can just steal literally any type of permanent from the field, or copy it, or bounce it, or just fucking kill it for 1 mana if it's a creature because somehow that fits into the color pie. i don't even know why im letting you rope me into arguing about mana efficiency, the entire point is that when i ask why can't black kill enchantments the answer is "color pie" but when i ask why blue can answer LITERALLY anything on the board on the stack there is no answer other than "b-b-b-but it costs more!"

Just tried putting together an Ezuri deck on tappedout, are Synthetic Destiny and Thought Vessel not available yet?

CALLING OUT THE KARLOV FAGS TO POST THEIR DECKLISTS

>>43545780
I DON'T HAVE ONE YET BUT I HOPE TO EVENTUALLY HAVE ONE. MAYBE LOOKING AT SOME OTHER LISTS WOULD HELP.

>>43545669
Alright dude, I'll try Mikaeus. And Grave Titan, forgot all about him. Mind posting your Meren list? I'm curious.

>>43545759

>blue can counter any type of permanent spell

this is the thing that people just don't understand about counters. While (some) of them don't have any restrictions the problem with counterspells is that if you don't have the mana up when the spell itself is being cast you've missed your opportunity to act. That's why blue (without extra support) has to play so re actively; the weakness is counters is that you can't play proactive (tapping out) without opening yourself to a whole slew of shit that you can't really deal with. It's worse in multiplayer games because while other colors can answer problem permanents whenever they want, blue has only a small time frame to deal with problem permanents without setting itself back on cards. The other colors answers are more lenient in that you can draw them after a threat is deployed or if your mana was down and still remove that threat with the same amount of efficiency that you could if you had the answer to them when they first came down.

blue stealing can deal with them but it's a very expensive answer and only really good in battle cruiser EDH formats. The best EDH decks don't bother with that shit because why would they? Instead of relying on your opponent to play good things for you to steal, you can just play your own good things and win the game. I'm sure if you asked most of the higher tier players what they thought about blue, you would get a lot of similar answers.

>>43545759
Not the person you're arguing with here, but are you the same person who's been posting this the past few threads? If so, you've had people give you some very clear and good answers and you should really stop now because you're just shitposting anymore.

Also, the color pie is a thing because otherwise every color would just have the exact same cards with different names and a different colored border. Without the color pie everyone would just more or less play the exact same deck with the only difference being the color of the card's border.

As to why blue has counterspells it's because blue's section of the color pie has to do with 'intelligence, mind magic, and pre-planning' and that's where counters fall in. The reason Blue has counters is literally because that's the way the color pie has made it work, It's the same reason Black has kill spells/reanimation, Green has the 'return to nature' destroy artifacts/enchantments, white has the 'law and balance' exile/destroy permanents, and red has the 'im so angry I'm destroying your stuff and homes' destroy artifact/land.

On top of that, counterspells are slowly getting worse and worse. Obviously people can still buy the old good ones, but they're not going to be printing any that potent anymore.

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>>43545780
>>43545860

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>>43545090
>dark petition has literally no connection to dark ritual at all

Spell mastery adds 3 extra black mana to your pool.

Which is what Dark Ritual did.

>>43545902
I don't actually have a Meren list, just a lot of experience with Black.

That said, I think you're going the right direction with her (ETB effects). She's not going to be hyper competitive or anything but she should be fun, or at least what I'm hoping since I bought that precon.

I keep thinking up more cards I forgot. I noticed you don't have a Grave Pact/equivalent.

>>43545759
Someone post the blue polymorph that actually EXILES
I already hate exile, especially since it's becoming more and more common.

>>43545971
>One card always gives you BBB for B
>One card will sometimes give you BBB back after paying 3BB

I mean, I can see where you're coming from but it's from such a cockeyed angle that no one is capable of understanding why.

>>43545911
That's offset by counterspells denying ETB/LTB effects, can't underestimate that.

>>43545985
>She's not going to be hyper competitive or anything
I disagree. While she isn't the deck to beat, I've had some solid games against T1 decks. Her resilience to removal combined with the disruption and removal of black and the value and ramp of green make her a really, really consistent commander.

>I noticed you don't have a Grave Pact/equivalent.

I tried it out and didn't like it. It's dead versus control and I'd rather just run a damnation against creature based decks if further testing proves that I don't have enough stuff to deal with creatures already, which I think I do.

>>43546121

>ETB

Torpor Orb does it too, but sure, it is an advantage. Counterspells aren't bad (I'm not arguing that) but they're not 'no weakness havin OP removal that makes blue the best color always' either.

>LTB effects

Any exile removal will do this too, though, which I think every color but green has for creatures.

>>43545911
i mean yeah sure counters only work if you have them and untapped mana when you need them. that's why, if the game were fair and the color pie was a real thing, blue wouldn't be able to answer literally just anything after it has resolved. but blue can, because blue is the devs' pet color that can do literally anything if it is themed to be "smart" or whatever. I don't know why you spend an entire post telling me counters aren't an end all answer to everything. they aren't, but they're still powerful and really mana efficient. but that's ok because any weaknesses that blue would have suffered for having to run reactive answers are all erased because they are also just given a suite of answers to anything that hits the board as well. meanwhile black literally cannot deal with enchantments on the stack or on the board because "color pie".


>>43545924
all ive heard regarding why the color pie is okay is someone try to argue that a black/green card is why black can answer enchantments. lmao

the color pie is bullshit because "smarts magic" somehow involves killing anything because you're actually just "transforming it" even if that involves turning an 11/11 indestructible trample into a vanilla 2/2, stealing literally any artifact, enchantment, creature, land, or planeswalker but somehow "im so angry im destroying your stuff" can't actually destroy half of the permanent types in the game

im all for the colors being different and having weaknesses, and that's exactly why it's bullshit that blue can do anything

>>43546158
Fair on both points, I'm looking forward to being able to try her out. I wish the other commander didn't cost as much mana though.

>>43545128

Why not both?

>>43546025
>and was referenced recently in dark petition
>dark petition has literally no connection to dark ritual at all
>Spell mastery adds 3 extra black mana to your pool.

How is this considered a cockeyed angle? Dark Petition is a tutor with a conditionally tacked-on Dark Ritual.

>>43546201
>blue wouldn't be able to answer literally just anything after it has resolved. but blue can, because blue is the devs' pet color that can do literally anything if it is themed to be "smart" or whatever.

oh god, here we go again. the only thing i can really ascertain from your posts is that blue is probably not your color in real life either

>but that's ok because any weaknesses that blue would have suffered for having to run reactive answers are all erased because they are also just given a suite of answers to anything that hits the board as well.

where. what answers. what do you do when someone throws down a really threatening artifact/enchantment and your mana was down

if you bounce it, you're down a card and they're just going to replay it. if you counter it after the bounce then you've wasted two cards to deal with one card and probably wasted two turns dealing with it too. and that's just assuming they cast it into your obviously open counter mana instead of just playing a bunch of shit you can't deal with.

>>43545971
>which is what dark ritual did
dark ritual did not tutor a card for 2 mana
that's demonic tutor, anon. why do you even talk without looking up the cards you're talking about?

what dark ritual did was gave you 2 mana net

like, how are these in any way similar? how do you even fucking breathe while being so dumb?

>>43545780
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/karlov-of-the-ghost-council-1/

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>>43546290
>where. what answers. what do you do when someone throws down a really threatening artifact/enchantment and your mana was down
just steal it?
jesus christ anon get yourself together

Are there ways to force opponents to search their library? I want to use Ob Nix Unshackled and make people lose 10 life as often as possible

>>43546395
ghost quarter is not optional
cannot think of any others

>>43546290
You seem to forget that being down a card means nothing if you kill the opponent before they recast the threat.

The guy trying to say blue is invincible compared to the other colors is a fucking moron but you guys acting like blue isn't above all the other colors are being equally moronic.

T1 island being the best play in magic is a thing for a reason.

>>43546345
You are being willfully ignorant if you don't see how Dark Petition is supposed to evoke Dark Ritual. Its thematic even. After your dark petition to the demon you start your dark ritual to get the power the demon promised you.

>>43546395
Maralen, but they'll just search for an answer.

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>>43546373
Get a grip anon

>>43546439
wat

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>>43546439
Meant this piece of shit.

>>43546201
>destroying an indestructible creature
But seriously, I am kinda with you on blue having the destroy spells. Admittedly, in non-EDH the replacing of the creature with a bear is more relevant but in EDH the token is negligible and it's more or less just kill spells.

The stealing stuff is mind magic and about the only colors that I can think of off the top of my head that can't is W or G, but those are my weakest colors knowledge-wise. Black can steal creatures and artifacts from the grave and the field and Red can steal creatures from the field.

As for Blue able to do 'everything' that's because it's more or less the jack of all trades, master of none color. It has a little bit of everything. Blue's weakness is admittedly in it's creatures. They have gotten some pretty good ones over the years but not as consistently good as other colors.

>>43546409
actually it's supposed to evoke demonic tutor, following the "strictly worse" theme of old powerful cards reprinted with downsides in origins. day's undoing is a timetwister that you can't continue to combo with on your turn. dark petition is a demonic tutor that you have to go to 5 mana to cast in the first place that will not refund you mana unless it resolves and you have spell mastery.
>but it's thematic because demons!
literally irrelevant

>>43546373

so you're playing 7 mana to grab one thing that's threatening and is probably much cheaper than your card

that delicious mana efficiency. i don't get why you think this effect is so strong when it's only really good at casual tables. I've been trying to find Tier 1 decks that use these types of things and I don't know if I will find any but I sure as hell haven't found them yet.

>>43546409

Unless you play Modern?? Blue was silly in Vintage and legacy because of balancing reasons, but it's not the best color in EDH, Standard, OR Modern by a long shot.

>>43546345
>how are these in any way similar?
Both cards have the exact phrase "add BBB to your mana pool".

>>43546266
More like it's a slightly overcosted Diabolic Tutor that is sometimes more of a Demonic Tutor. We're just looking at it from two separate points of view.

>>43546519
and Dark Ritual was insanely iconic back in the day. It was black's bolt.

This discussion makes me sad. Its like a new age timmy player shitting on giant growth just because become immense is a thing.

>>43546506
>thematics are irrelevant in an EDH thread
Keep being a shit anon.

>2015
>Soldier tokens still not human
literally why

>>43546509
I am still amazed that people don't seem to realize that mind control effects are some of the most powerful removal spells in the game by a long, long shot.
Blatant Thievery isn't just getting you one of their things; it's removing one of theirs. Even something as simple as a mana dork can be huge, and realistically, you will be getting their Sun Titan or Sheoldred, or whatever. And you even get multiple shit.

The deck that wants to resolve Dark Petition will always do so with spell mastery. Hell, the 2 spells in their yard will be some combo of other tutors.

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>>43546480
blue can destroy indestructible creatures though, in fact as far as i know every color except red can.

>>43546509
it's hilarious how you keep digging your own grave. you want mana efficiency? you can have mana efficency. blue apologists are the worst. they know LITERALLY nothing about the subject matter but they insist on talking about it anyway. why do you even post, anon? you're clearly completely ignorant.

oh yeah and
>7 mana
>steal the best thing from each opponent
>not mana efficient
it really doesn't get better than this. but hey, even if this could only steal 1 thing, the point remains that blue can answer LITERALLY anything even after it resolves - a fact that you can't make go away by closing your eyes and screaming about mana efficiency when I'm talking about issues with the color pie. black can't kill enchantments because it is somehow not a part of their color, but blue can answer absolutely anything on the board, on the stack, in your imagination, wherever.

>>43546596
There is a reason Duplicant is the number 1 reanimated card in my Feldon deck.

>>43546571
uh, sure, now tell me about how it harkens back to grinning demon because that card also is about demons lmao