/wodg/ World of Darkness General

If the setting for VtM Fourth Edition isn't close to or exactly the same as By Night Studio's version of the setting, I'll eat my hat. That's probably the only way you can do a post-Gehenna setting without the world blowing up.

>>43532253
How'd they do it? "Gehenna was a bust"?

I vaguely recall people talking about it, but saying that it was basically not all that big a deal for most of the world.

I just think that a post-apocalypse would be cool to play from the perspective of most WoD organizations and characters.

>>43532253
>>43532359
http://theonyxpath.com/gehenna-vampire-open-development/
This was the last official word on it, at least outside of the VtM forums (which I don't frequent).

>>43532359

It's fun as a "what-if" or an ST's special campaign, but it shouldn't be the default. The whole point to VtM is that you're vampires living in a secret world in modern times. There's certainly a cool game where you're vampires living in a maybe not-so-secret world in the aftertimes, but it's not VtM.

As for the By Night settting, the Antediluvians rose, it was pretty bad but it wasn't apocalyptic, the Sabbat lost all of their hold on Mexico and South America. Some other things happened but I can't seem to recall them.

>>43532559
>It's fun as a "what-if" or an ST's special campaign, but it shouldn't be the default.
Yeah, but at the same time it's kind of a let down to hype something up and then go "whoops, turns out the apocalypse was less impressive than everyone thought!"

Also, I think an interesting way to do things would be at the very least a post-Gehenna world. The apocalypse came and went and vampire society is still around and now what the fuck are they going to do?

>>43532686

It's still going to be post-Gehenna, but the blog makes it very clear that it's not going to be post-apocalyptic. It seems like Gehenna didn't go as prophesied and while Vampires were changed, the world didn't come to an end.

Is it going to be a let down? Yep. But that's what happens when you're continuing a story line that was never intended to go past "the world ended". Actually setting VtM in a post-apocalyptic world would probably go over as well as when Traveller attempted to be a post-apocalyptic setting.

>>43532930
At least for me, the main reason I couldn't get into VtM was the whole "You're a vampire with a shot at eternal unlife! But it doesn't matter anyway because the world is ending in less than a decade!" thing, so I kind of like this post-Gehenna idea even if it kind of makes it less distinct from Requiem as a result.

I imagine I'm not the only person who felt this way about VtM, so maybe they're hoping to bring in people like me without alienating the existing fanbase.

>>43533040

Well the thing about VtM was that it was never really a given that the world was going to end, at least for one and a half editions. A big part of the Camarilla vs Sabbat conflict was whether or not the Antediluvians existed and if so, what should be done with them.

I think it's less an appeal to Requiem players and people alienated by VtM's premise (sales have shown us that there's not much of a gain to be had there) and more of an attempt to try to hook back in old players. It's risky, but it's exactly the kind of thing oWoD Lore obsessives can't resist.

>>43533137
You mean there was a time when the standard player faction wasn't objectively wrong about whether Antediluvians existed? Well I'll be damned.

>>43532930
I mean playing after a Gehenna that came and went and WAS a big deal. Like, "in 2004 there was a domestic terrorist attack in Los Angeles and in the following weeks thousands around the world were found dead of a mysterious plague" and then vampire society is recovering and shaken up. The world is still normal, but the vampire world is all post-9/11 post-Katrina style panic and intrigue and dealing with a massive disaster.

That'd be interesting. Especially since so much of the metaplot and the faction ideologies was built around The End Times. Well, they came, they went, turns out many people survived. But now what do you do?

Like, THAT kind of post-apocalypse would be cool. A big disaster, the Antideluvians were all fought, thousands died, there was a cover up, but twelve years later and you're living in a world where the end of days was a bust.

>>43533761

I can't see the answer not being "the same sort of thing you do in VtM 1st, 2nd, and Revised, only there's no more looming apocalypse". You might have people going "Well that wasn't the real Gehenna" or something, but the Camarilla and Sabbat are probably going to fight ad infinitum because of their other political schisms.

The end of the world aspect isn't as important as the political aspect. This is probably a good excuse to streamline all the clans and bloodlines, though.

Looking at drivethruRPG is Premium Color worth the extra cost over Standard Color? Thinking of getting some of the 20th anniversary books.

>>43534028

It'll be brighter, and if I remember right, a bit glossier. It'll look nicer, at the very least.

>>43534028
Depends if you're gonna be using print or pdfs more and if you want to flash the bling on your nonexistent friends

>>43534028
I'll let you know in two months when my premium Vampire 2e and Werewolf 2e come in.

Are there any actual rules on starting equipment for nwod characters, or is it just a "discuss what makes sense with your ST" deal?

>>43535137

Theoretically, it should be looking over the chart and taking things that are within your dots in Resources and keeping your character concept in mind, but in practice it tends to be a "discuss it with your ST" kind of thing.

>>43535137
>>43535302
WoD intentionally doesn't worry too much about your dollar amount of money. And it's not the kind of game where you need to spend time looking around your house to make sure your character purchases everything that they'd reasonably have so that you don't end up in a situation where the ST says "not on your sheet it doesn't exist".

The mechanics of the game mean that even poor people can afford things if they save up, and it would be really difficult within the rules to worry about things like that.

So, yes, basically you have what is reasonable for you to have. WoD doesn't have "starting equipment" because every character is assumed to be a reasonable human being with a life and possessions, as opposed to Shadowrun, where you're one giant purchase of gear and a vague "Lifestyle" that may or may not imply non-essentials.

>>43535358

The tl;dr on that is that WoD isn't really a gear focused game, so it plays fast and loose with it.

Resources isn't even really all the money you have, it's more like how much "fun money" you've got on things that aren't your day to day life stuff.

>>43535400
So much so that "the money you have on you" is actually equipment itself. It's called Cash.

>>43535430

Wow, really? Which book is that one in, cause I didn't see it in WoD core. That's pretty great, though.

>>43535358
>>43535400

Money and purchasing power are really narrative in the WOD, and Resources represents what you can generally afford or acquire besides your basic living expenses.

Unless an important aspect of your character is their wealth, or more likely, lack thereof, acquiring mundane items is simply not important under the WOD mechanics, unless and except the items wanted are unique, illegal, very expensive, or otherwise normally difficult to acquire by regular people (although other Merits could help with such an acquisition).

However, I do wish there was a Merit beyond Resources 5 that represented more extreme levels of wealth and lifestyle, as it's not entirely unrealistic or particularly notable that a character could be more than a "basic" multimillionaire in 21st Century western countries. It would also help differentiate elder vampires, master mages, etc., who are certainly expected to have more resources than your average well to do banker or trust fund child.

>>43535488
It's in the GMC update, at least.

>>43535546
Honestly, I never worry about Resources. If I run WoD again I might use Cash more often.
Alternately I might put together that Lifepath system I've been thinking about doing.

>>43535582

Ah, that explain it. I was looking only at the 1e core, and not the rules update.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxJjYbFqZa0
This reminds me of Geist for some reason.

So it seems Fate's Targeting exemption is getting a huge nerf in 2e. Before you could exempt things by category, but now have to choose each target explicitly.

Before you could make walls that only mages can see through, or a spell that was negated by carrying a certain kind of trinket. Now that's impossible.

>>43536113

This was revealed by Dave in an earlier /wodg/ thread and extensively discussed. He indicated that the decision to not make Targeted Exemption an Attainment was quite deliberate and, he believed, thematically appropriate..

Moreover, since the detailed capabilities of the Arcana have not yest been revealed, we really don't yet know if the "categorical exemptions" you discuss are still possible in 2e, possibly at a level higher than Fate 2 or with the expenditure of additional reach and the Target Exemption spell.

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>>43535956
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJzLI8hknKw

this whole game is like a Geist chronicle. Here, a Silent threshold suicide meets her Geist and gets sent back after choosing how much she resists the agenda of the Queen. Later she'll use the primeval rage, and travel through the underworld to avoid obstacles.

Also I expanded on some Geist stuff I wrote earlier.

So is Onyx Path kill or not?

>>43536502
We find out tomorrow.

But yes,

>>43535137
>>43535302
>>43535358
>>43535400

There's also a bit of a "read between the lines" ruling when it comes to starting equipment.
Take a look at the Equipment section in GMC, specifically in "Availability and Procurement". It says you can gain equipment with a single (or no) roll if the availability of the Equipment is equal to or less than an applicable skill.
In that regard, I think taking a measure of the character's Resource dots and Skill dots (and applicable merits like Status and Proffesional Training) to gauge what equipment a character should reasonably have.

Computer 2? Likely a +1 or +2 PC, sure.
Cracking Software (Availability 3), maybe no... but a Specialty in Hacking, and Status as a IT Worker of sorts? Good enough.

>>43536467
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3oMvDncg74
For some reason Rick, to me at least, checks out as one of the Torn, why?
>"What do I want? Well same as any god really, little Faith. For without Faith I Am Nothing, and without me You're Fucked."

>>43536675
If he didn't stay so dead, the protagonist of murdered: soul suspect would make a decent torn.

>>43536685
Fairy nuff. Hell there are loads of Video game characters that can be used as inspiration for a Geist and Sin-Eater pair.

>>43536467
>The Cat Lady
>Sounds interesting
>Hey, a demo
This game is so sluggish, even when my shitheap of a computer isn't heaving. But damn, it's dripping atmosphere
>Tense moment followed by jump scare that isn't threatening
>"JESUS FUCKING CHRIST"
Man I'm a pussy

>>43537053
shame if it's choppy, but you've probably got some good moments to look forward to in the demo

>>43537053
>The Cat Lady

It is not scary, it is very dark. After all, it is about an old lady who tries to kill herself, only for death making her immortal and sending a series of serial killers her way.

Also it has several badass moments, like going after a killer with an assault shotgun, gas mask and rock music, or pulling the finger to the death (which is required for the best ending).

>>43537275
people tend to think it's more plausible that the Queen of Maggots is more an entity of suicide or depression or something. But yeah, you can go along with her, or tell her you'll do it your way.

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>>43537275
>It is not scary
I nearly shit myself at pic related.

>>43537313
That part has some references to the previous game. That ghost guy on the building is the main character from it. Haven't played that as I'm waiting for the remake he is making.

Also, another badass moment is scarying to death the neighbour with the cat spirit.

>>43537313
yeah, that was a good moment. Hard to beat the Chapter 1 closer though

>>43537337
>>43537313

Now that I recall a bit more. I think that woman and the man who asks you to talk to her are the main characters of the previous game: Downfall.

>>43537636
they are: Ivy and Joe. Might be cool to see mitzi show up in a later game.

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>>43536467

yeah i've re-named ferrymen "the risen" as a yet another shout-out to wraith (between soul-forgers being soul-forgers and the shadow people basically being shades at this point, everything's a callback to wraith.)

Then again, wraith is a gold-mine for geist ideas. Wraith always felt like it shoulld have been cheerful yet horrifying from a lot of the artwork

>>43538441
nice. Maybe I should go back and read some of the Wraith books again.

>>43531969
>Masquerade 4e is going to be post Gehenna. What do you think Masquerade--or either World of Darkness as a whole--would look like post apocalypse? It's unlikely the world as a whole will have realized anything even happened, but the idea of how the various supernaturals would react in that situation is a neat idea.

We don't know that. No one knows what Dracula's plans for One World of Darkness is and its safe to assume that nothing about 4E's setting is guaranteed to stay the same.

>>43532253
They already said that it won't be BNS, and that Gehenna will have happened, but it won't be 'end of the world, Masquerade broken, Vampire Hunter D-style vampire post apoc'. I expect them to pick and choose from various scenarios, perhaps from the Gehenna novel which presented a lot of this in a way that didn't destroy cities with rolling flesh monstrosities or darkness raining blood on the earth after 3 days.

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Deranged Derek Vampire when??

>>43532559
By Night's default post-Gehenna setting is horrible.
Gehenna started and petered out partway through.
The Sabbat did the whole 'eat itself from the inside' thing because noone was sure what happened or what to do.
The Camarilla couldn't have their party line be 'oh, they don't exist' when there is viable proof that they DO exist. They changed the party line to 'oh, they are beneficient mothers and fathers' and they promote that, which is dumb as... well, unless you're a bog-new neonate embraced in the years since the party line change, you KNOW what the party line used to be.

The only good things setting-wise to come out of it was the breaking of the Promise and the Independent Alliance of the Giovanni and Setites, and the Assamites replacing the Gangrel as a pillar clan.

The entire system update for the LARP rules is a thing of beauty, as well, but that's a different topic.

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>>43539377
Surely you mean Loopy Lawrence?
>mfw there prolly a Group of Malkovians whose names are all play on this theme.

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cWoDfag here.
In Guide to the Camarilla, it specifically called out the Tremere as being in for a rough time if they tried to attend Brujah Rants. Why? What's the source of this special enmity towards the Tremere? I thought Brew-whos only had serious hateboners for Blue Bloods.

Are they still pouring out 40s for their Salubri homies?

>>43535546
There is and it is discussed in vampire chronicler's guide.

>>43539984

Everybody hates the Tremere

>>43538441
Soulsteel and forging souls is actually already in Geist, in the Forge Dead Dominion. It's in Book of the Dead, where most of the good Geist stuff is.

>>43539611
Well, once Cthulhu awakens and he *doesn't* eat you, it's pretty easy to think "they're beneficent mothers and fathers"
>Ass mites as a pillar clan instead of base gangrels
>A good thing

>>43539984
The reason for the special enmity is that in cWoD you aren't your own person, you're a stereotype and everyone around you is also a stereotype who treats you like a stereotype because they know you're a stereotype. You're not allowed to have the same ideology as the Brujah anyway, just as the Brujah aren't allowed to even think about acting like Ventrue.

>>43540575
I've found it to be an interesting scenario, anyway. Doesn't give the Tremere a wooj monopoly and promotes some inter-clan rivalry. Plus it came from a hefty backroom deal between Hardestadt and Tegyrius, which makes it feel like vampire. And the Gangrel had been a rough non-entity of the Cam anyway since Xavier went 'shit, Antediluvians!' during the whole Eye of Hazimel scenario.

On a more important note, does anyone have rule suggestions for including stands in wod?

>>43540638
Everything you just said is why I don't like oWoD.

What sort of enemies should I throw at a V:tM party with a ventrue who's invested in nothing but stamina/fortitude? Humans/anything with guns can barely bruise him, unless I just say everybody they meet happens to be rolling around with anti-vampire rounds or whatever

If I throw something supernatural at them or something that does aggravated damage, then yeah it can hurt him fine, but damage it does to the rest of the party wouldn't exactly be fair

>>43540739
fire

>>43540697
What do you think Geists are?

>>43540739
Attack him in non-physical ways. Have an influential Toreador spread rumors about him. Have a Nossie hack his shit and blackmail him. Sky's the limit.

>>43540706

No one cares.

>>43539611

Thanks! I had forgotten most of the details but I remember being unhappy with it.

>>43535956

You know, the whole Kavinsky storyline thing is another piece of music that feels Geist as hell. Gonna have to listen to that again.

Also I had the pleasure of reading the Crow comic the other day. It's uncomfortably close to reading someone's diary, but damn if the titular Crow isn't a good example of a more caring kind of Geist.

>>43539611
>pillar clan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDEbsZpweDo

>>43540813

If Jojo doesn't end up an influence on Geist 2e in some way, I will eat my hat. My other hat, since I already ate this hat: >>43539355

>>43540834
>No one cares.

Struck a nerve?

>>43540852

Please no. Jojo and Geist have absolutely nothing in common.

I had an idea for a Dark Era...The Vietnam War.
Plenty of room for the various Splats

>>43540864
Supernatural entities tied to a person but distinctly different aren't similar?

>>43540864

Nah, I just think drive-by "I don't like X" posts are pretty dumb. Would have been the same if it had been about nWoD.

>>43540864

Neither does Persona and yet it's right there in the intro chapter. Much like Persona, I could see it being a very superficial influence, probably for Key and Manifestation ideas.

>>43540903

That is such a broad description that almost anything can fit. You might as well put oWoD Avatars into that fit. Thematically or mechanically there is nothing similar between the two. In fact, its a really shit description because Stands are an extension of one's soul, not another being inhabiting your body. They are more akin to goetic demons than they are geist.

>>43540926
>Nah, I just think drive-by "I don't like X" posts are pretty dumb. Would have been the same if it had been about nWoD.

No one cares.

>>43540926
>Nah, I just think drive-by "I don't like X" posts are pretty dumb.
Well, I was the person he replied to, and that was my reply to him, so it's not really "drive-by".

>>43540976
>You might as well put oWoD Avatars into that fit
Avatars aren't separate entities that have their own flavour and appearance and style independant of the character. Your Avatar doesn't really even have a form, as far as I'm aware, it's just a shard of your being. Geist and Stands are as similar as Geists and the Shadow from Wraith, and that's still a clear comparison that many people would make.

Plus, it's as similar as Persona (which is another "this is a part of you made manifest") which as >>43540926 points out is already cited as an inspiration and a place to get inspiration.

>>43540739
>>43540828
Oh, you could also have them try to recover a McGuffin from a "Shane the Shy" style character.

>>43536113
>It's a spell now
>You can make up spells that do whatever the fuck you want
>This is the entire fucking point of Mage
Creative Thaumaturgy a better version for more Reach, then.

>>43541088
>Plus, it's as similar as Persona (which is another "this is a part of you made manifest") which as >>43540926 points out is already cited as an inspiration and a place to get inspiration.

Personas are a bad inspiration too and don't fit. As was said, they are a superficial influence, not a real, strong influence on how Geists are supposed to work. At least Persona 1/2 has thematic relevance to Geist whereas Jojo's stands have no place in Geist's setting.

The idea that's being peddled in this thread that Geists are Stands shows a lack of understanding of both Geists and Jojo. The connection between them are as superficial as it gets.

Got what you JoJo fans need. It's a work in progress.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16ILQg-VrKzGS3LOzdRKMr7O7lQu9NWREnD8zGwmMW8Y/edit#

>>43541205
>Personas are a bad inspiration too and don't fit.
Except they're not and they do. And going "well that's not the same" is really limiting. That's like arguing that Dresden Files and Hellblazer don't fit as Mage: The Awakening inspiration because they're only superficially similar.

It's not that people have a lack of understanding. It's that you're seeing things so strictly that it's keeping you from using inspirations.

>>43540976

Struck a nerve?

Nah, I'm just fooling. Anyways, WoD influences, at least the kind in the intro chapters, have never really been on thematic point, or at least have very broad thematic points. I think Vampire's always been the most on point out of all of them.

>>43541243

Its not that they aren't the same thing, they are completely different. Geists are ghosts that make pacts with humans. Stands are psychic powers derived from the soul. They aren't anything alike except for the superficial "they float behind you" aspect. There is nothing similar about them other than visuals. Dresden Files and Hellblazer fit Mage very well for a lot of reasons. The only thing that Stands have going for them is that they look similar.

Again, if you want Stands in WoD they are closer to Goetic Demons than Geist.

>>43541205

The cited influence on Geist is Persona 3, which probably has the most to do with Geist. The Underworld is heavily inspired by Tartarus. 1 and 2 are too Mythos-y to count.

>>43541331
The BIGGEST reason to use Geist as inspiration has nothing to do with the powers. It has nothing to do with the mechanics of it. It has nothing to do with the narrative, even.

It has everything to do with the visuals, because "strange and unique otherworldly entity" is one of the most important aspects of *The* Geist itself. Your Geist should basically look like a spooky Stand, even if you've never seen Jojo.

You're thinking way too hard about this, and it's leading you to dismiss a very valid source of inspiration. You're seeing the primary narrative excuse for the ghosts that float behind you and dismissing it because it's not the same fluff reason. There's more to it than that, both for Jojo and Persona.

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>>43541091
>>43540828
I can see these two being the same person

>>43540771
and have him use this as a panic button if he's cornered

Thanks guys

>>43541353

Tartarus in 3 and Tartarus in mythology are really only related by name but whatever. Its more likely that they didn't play 1 or 2. I mean, Persona 1 is pretty Geisty. Persona 2 is very nWoD.

>>43541408
>On a more important note, does anyone have rule suggestions for including stands in wod?
>What do you think Geists are?

As I said, its extremely superficial. Geists are Stands is the thinnest, laziest comparison you could come up with.

>>43541331
"Inspiration" doesn't necessarily mean it has the same tone, or even a similar mechanic. *cough*twilight*cough*

Going by your argument, we could say that Digimon is a good inspiration for Geist.

>>43541462
>Geists are Stands is the thinnest, laziest comparison you could come up with.
But it's one some people have familiarity with, and helps new players ease into the concept(s).

>>43541239
The Vampire Stereotype would just be WWWRRRRRYYYY

>>43541492

>Going by your argument, we could say that Digimon is a good inspiration for Geist.

No, that doesn't make a lick of sense either.

>But it's one some people have familiarity with, and helps new players ease into the concept(s).

There is two things going on here. One is people in this thread, who should know better, saying Geists are Stands and thats just fucking retarded. The other is using it as an inspiration in a book, which I'll grant, if you have no idea about either outside of osmosis would be a decent "this is what they look like" comparison to put in the book.

It still isn't a very good comparison and both you and the writers should find something more fitting. Just because people are familiar with the concept of Stands, doesn't mean that they are Geist just because they haven't read past part 3 and don't know what Stands actually are.

>>43541531

Well meme'd my friend.

>>43541331

The superficial aspect's reason enough. They float behind you, they have powers, and it's a popular example of one of the Geist concepts in popular media. Someone picking up Geist for the first time isn't going to care that they're actually more like another splat's creature, what they want is a list of "what should I be watching/listening/reading/playing to get a grip on how to visualize and run the game?" You have to cast a wide net when you making a creature that doesn't have a lot of common folklore, so I can see it having a small write-up.

I mean if it doesn't, whatever, but I have a feeling some writer will slip it in. What really matters is if the Geist 2e Dev team remembers to keep The Frighteners as influence. Aside from the lack of Geists, that movie's perfect for inspiration.

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>>43541543
>osmosis
Did you say...Osmosis?

>>43541462
>Geists are Stands is the thinnest, laziest comparison you could come up with.
Unless you take Phantasmal Key.

Also, no. Digimon isn't even remotely similar. And Twilight doesn't either, it just shares a *name* with a mechanic. Digimon might be good inspiration for Demon, though. The Digiworld is similar to the "saved" splinters in Splintered City Seattle.

Just because you can't see how something different might be a good source of ideas doesn't mean other people are so uncreative.

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>>43541574
>Geist 2e Dev team
Man, I'm not on the "nWoD is kill" bandwagon and even *I'm* worried that Geist 2e won't happen

I need NPC garou ideas for a small rural caern in the Appalachians. W20. Help!

>>43541560
I guess that one Lodge would hate Stand users just as much as Geists, to them Geists are 'Claimed Dead', Stand Users would give them a headache, as they would see it as a Human who has Claimed a Spirit, which shouldn't happen.

>>43541595
I was referring to Twilight's presence in the VtR inspiration list.

>>43541652
Or maybe a Human who's Claimed himself?

>>43541669
Oh. That's perfectly fine and I can see why it would be, even beyond "it's popular".

>>43541652
More like Mages.

>>43541688
Either way it's still a headache.

>>43541652
>>43541688
>>43541709
These are good ideas. If you guys come up with any more interesting crossover interactions, I'll put them in.

Also, there's supposed to be a Stand User for each splat. I can make them myself (just vague descriptions of who they are and what their Stand does), but I'm taking suggestions.

>>43541709
Speaking of, I think a Mages reaction would depend not only on their denomination, but what your Stand did.

Hunters would be...difficult, Cheiron would have you up on a chopping block before you could say Jack-Knife, not sure about the others.

Not sure on Changelings Or Prometheans though.

>>43541543
>There is two things going on here. One is people in this thread, who should know better, saying Geists are Stands
What? Where?

>>43541762
Please make the Vampire's name "D. O."

>>43541650

It'll happen. Whether nWoD survives or it gets fused with oWoD in some unholy, One World of Darkness fusion, we're getting a new Geist. It's got prime video game potential. I can see Obsidian going for it after doing a game in a more popular WoD line.

>>43541762
>Stand User for each splat.
I'd advise against doing this, it's generally not a good idea to mix Splats like that.

>>43541807
>It's got prime video game potential.
Does it?

>>43541799
see
>>43540813

>>43541799
>Please make the Vampire's name "D. O."
Could you even pull off Stone Mask Vampires in nWoD?

>>43541799
I was thinking Desmond Brando, who is vaguely alluded to in the first chapter.

>>43541808
My (admittedly flimsy) justification for allowing this would be that DIO had a Stand despite being a vampire. I know Araki's vampires work differently from WOD vampires, but I don't think it would feel right to have your Stand vanish when you go supernatural.

>>43541846
I'm not sure. Going to have to reread Requiem.

I wanted to do the Speedwagon Foundation as a Hunter group.

>>43541844
You mean the post that was clearly in jest?

>>43541872

You don't think I meant "people are saying stands are geist" literally did you? People have been saying that stands are geist for a while now.

>>43541867
>I wanted to do the Speedwagon Foundation as a Hunter group.
Yeah! Even Speedwagon Is Impressed! Still not sure what the hunter doodahmadads for SPW would be.

>>43541846
Lots of Protean Devotions for absolute body control?

>>43541846
>>43541867
The pillar men and DIO have some sort of crazy Protean/Vicissitude bullshit going on.

>>43541808
Yeah, but since they're mixed in the source media, it's tempting.

>>43541896
Then why did you draw a line between "people saying Geists are Stands" and "listing JoJo as an inspiration"?

>>43541872
The last few days have lead me to believe that RPG.net is onto something when they end posts with /sarcasm.

Because clearly people are too stupid to not take everything completely literally.

>>43541834

Ironically, it's greatest weakness is its greatest strength: you could do a pretty decent open world ghost detective game with the premise, with a lot of narrative freedom. It also gives video game writers the chance to write an always around sidekick in the Geist, which is like video game writer crack.

>>43542128

>its greatest weakness on tabletop is its greatest strength in video games

This is what I get when I post without coffee.

>>43542128
I don't know, I feel like the powers are the main problem. Conceptually I can see where you're going, though. An open world game where you explore a city and deal with emergent ghost problems would be great.

I don't know if it's the first game that would spring to mind, though. I mean, Vampire and Werewolf and even Changeling are a lot more friendly to the straightforward nature of video games. Their powers don't tend to involve vague narrative things.

>>43540926
Persona 3 is about death and accepting the inevitability of it, it's pretty thematically relevant if not so directly tied to the rest of the game.

>>43541091
>"Shane the Shy" style character.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2vbfpz/shane_the_shy_the_most_infuriating_villain_ever/
>He [...] assured us there was no way that anything we were getting for him this time could be used to start a civil war.

>>43542361
Presence is one hell of a discipline.

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>>43542128
I just want a werewolf video game made by the Prototype devs

>>43542434
Platinum Games' Exalted

>>43542496

Hideyeki Kamiya could probably design some great Solar fights.

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>>43542496
>>43542563

We already have one of those, kind of

Even the theme music's lyrics fit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPJ7x9iMw0

>>43542563
I want something with a story and non-combat play like Mass Effect/Dragon Age/VTMB/Witcher/Whatever and then combat like Metal Gear Rising or Kingdom Hearts (II) or Devil May Cry. The Neir trailer is basically what makes me think Platinum would be able to do an Exalted game.
https://youtu.be/BPnAEHHPPz0

I mean, ideally you'd be able to create your character RPG style and decide how you upgrade yourself, but combat like this shit would be great.

>>43543085
This is why Platinum would be great at it. "You're some loser from Lookshy who Exalts and now everyone is after you, *MURDER THEM*"

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So Christmas is in like a month and a half or something and I need to plan in advance. Okay really it's just for starting NaNo late and writing a "WoD but not really" novel

What are some good ghost stories for Christmas? What are some good spooky WoD Christmas things?

>>43543191
>What are some good spooky WoD Christmas things?
What is WoDs Santa like?

Also, someone post "Marty and Bubba save Christmas".

>>43543106
>This is why Platinum would be great at it. "You're some loser from Lookshy who Exalts and now everyone is after you, *MURDER THEM*"
And by the end of the game you realize they would have been right to murder you because by now you're an evil, unstoppable asshole?

>>43543222
>What is WoDs Santa like?
He's an Inspiration 10, Obligation 10 Inspired Mane, his existence empowered and reinforced by generation after generation of children finding out he isn't real.

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>>43543222
>What is WoDs Santa like?

You can make a Santa Claus with every splat. For my money, he's a True Fae. But Slasher Santa has his moments.

>>43543191
Well, you've already picked out the premiere ghost story for Christmas. It's not hard to update. Check out Scrooged, starring Bill Murray, if you haven't ever. As for spooky, you can't go wrong with the Krampus.

My favorite Christmas story is far and way O. Henry's "Gift of the Magi."

>>43543191
>What are some good ghost stories for Christmas? What are some good spooky WoD Christmas things?
The Spirit of Christmas is spreading Christmas cheer, whether you like it or not.

Also, Santa Claus Geist.

>>43543361
>You can make a Santa Claus with every splat.
Vampire Santa (His Ghouls are Elves)?

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>>43543361
More Nedroid Christmas. This time with g-g-ghosts!

>>43543408
High Humanity Sanctified who is more about the carrot. Krampus is his coteriemate.

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>>43543419
>>43543408
Of course, man. Vampire Santa's almost assuredly a Gangrel. Probably a member of the Circle of the Crone, the pagan bastard.

>>43543399
>Also, Santa Claus Geist.
While I like making the complaint that "your Geist reveals he was Santa all along" is how Krewe Channels work... I was thinking a Krampus Geist.

>>43543361
>But Slasher Santa has his moments.
Pretty sure Christmas Slay is a movie.

If I do go with spooky Christmas for my novel, I'm going with "A Christmas Peril"

>>43543399
>Also, Santa Claus Geist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvwYCbBWxT8

>>43543191

Better write 3000 words a day, anon. That's only four hours out of the day, anon.

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>>43543448

>>43543449
>>Also, Santa Claus Geist.
>While I like making the complaint that "your Geist reveals he was Santa all along" is how Krewe Channels work... I was thinking a Krampus Geist.
Maybe the interpretation of Santa is tied to the type of Sin-Eater you become on Christmas day, or something

>>43543495
Last time I did it I started on day 15 and got to 35k.
I mean, I didn't get to a *point*, but I got words. Hence why I'm planning out this time.

As an aside, apparently it was a tradition in Victorian times to tell Ghost Stories.

http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2014/12/19/ghosts-on-the-nog/
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705363363/Telling-ghost-stories-is-a-lost-tradition-on-Christmas-Eve.html?pg=all
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/dec/23/ghost-stories-victorians-spookily-good

A Christmas Carol is just the most popular one that overtook all the others and lasted.

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Also, just because I love Nedroid, have this, /wodg/.

Does someone have the pdf of the 2e fighting style merits?

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>>43543519
>I was thinking a Krampus Geist.

Yeah, that's all you need. A thing in your head telling you how the bad children need to be punished, they're oh-so-wicked and must be beaten, burned, hurt...

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>>43543606
You can find it on the blog, but yeah, I saved it

>>43543580
Alternative file name:

reginald joins and is kicked out of the aegis kai doru in one day.png

>>43541531
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!

One W. One R. Either six or twenty Ys. Two exclamation marks. Not well meme'd.

>>43543580

How would your character survive a Dracula town, /wodg/?

>>43541104
That just leads to power creep.

>>43543767
Personally, I always did it with one W, three Rs, and 5 or more Ys. To each their own.

>>43543770
SEP field?

>>43543622
As Punishment is Krampuses dealio, maybe he's a Beast.

>>43543970

The Krampus is totally a Beast. Loves making people miserable, preys on the unsuspecting for nebulous crimes, hangs out with more popular characters on the basis of "but they really like him!"

Eshmaki with a hunger for Punishment.

>>43544084
>Eshmaki with a hunger for Punishment.
noice

>>43544084
But what, or more importantly who, is he when he isn't in his Lair?

>>43540575

Can a sin eater learn to soulforge?

>>43541799

Geists are not stands. They are very reminiscent of stands

>>43544226
>Can a sin eater learn to soulforge?
Iunno, probably. I'm too lazy to download Book of the Dead and look it up, so you'll have to do that yourself.

>>43544193

You know that one guy who always rings the bell in front of stores, wears the Santa outfit, has the bucket ready and waiting? You always walk past that guy, right?

He notices, he always notices. And trust me on this, one day you may not walk away scott free.

You better watch out.

>>43544444
He's making a list.

He's checking it twice.

>>43544474
>>43544444
As for his Lair; Do you know how hard it is to run in knee deep snow?

>>43544675

The chambers of his Lair are made from all the bedrooms of the people he's terrified. It's practically a labyrinth in there. And at the Heart? That's where the really bad people go, the one he chains up and drags back. Even if they escape, they just end up wandering the Primordial Dream forever.

Is it just me or are the dread powers for generic monsters in the hunter books more powerful then most things actual splats are capable of?

>>43543222
A Turk who delivers presents to children once a year. He can't reach very many because he can't stop time and his car has bad gas mileage.

>>43544819
Not really. They're generic flat things. At best they're STRONGER, but they're blander and less flexible. Dread Attack gives +1 to +5 Lethal Damage rating (or in 2e I think 0L to 5L). But Protean 1 through 5 is a lot better.

Sure, there are one dot Dread Powers that are really strong, but they're not meant to be purchased like Merits, they're meant to be given to a monster with the dot rating as a rough guideline of how capable they are with their power.

>>43545067
Attacks that do 5L is pretty fucking crazy, in terms of "roll 2 successes to instantly kill anything with a normal Size and Stamina".

It's a relatively boring power for a PC though, compared to the suite of powers you'd get from Protean, yeah.

Is Legend the Hunter thing?

>>43545457

There's Hunter the Reckoning and Hunter the Vigil. Dunno about any Legend.

>>43532559
>>43539611
>post Gehenna setting

how do they even embrace? everyone is thinblood at gen 15

if they run out of low gens then its over for the kindred

>>43545457
>>43545868
Legend is the Beast version of a Vice. It's what stories about them focus on, as a personality trait.

Their virtue-replacer is Life; the trait the monster has that makes them seem more human.

>>43546112
We don't know. But if they pull from the Gehenna novel, the Withering seems to die off leaving stuff like, 8th gens turned into 11th gens and stuff. So who knows.

Thinking about buying Vampire The Requiem 2nd Edition for xmas through Drive Thru. Are there any other recommended material to pick up for to go along with the base Vampire book? I will probably pick up some expansions and stuff later on.

>>43546219

Damnation City is an important city building book that's still very relevant.

What was this project through which Lucifer wanted to speed up humanities development but in the end it cut the source of faith for the fallen?

i'm reading up Demon: The fallen stuff (oWod) but i don't have the rulebook, my only source is the wiki witch has lots of missing info

>>43546219
None.

>>43546283
Even this is wrong since the basic premises of vampiric existence are changed between Blood & Smoke and VtR, the covenants are different, the morality system is different.

>>43546333
Science. Remove Faith from the world since the earthbound fed off it. Accidentally also killed Arcadia.

>>43546369
i ment for his project during the war against the loyal elohim

this:
>Babel: Lucifer attempts to connect humanity and Heaven, and fails.

from what i gathered from the wiki, he wanted more faith to beat the loyalists

>>43546336

Even for a city building book? There's not that much different between the editions to make general city advice irrelevant.

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true story

>>43547387
If you're the sort of person who'd buy Damnation City for use in a different gameline, it'll work just as fine for Vampire 2e.

>>43547561
Go home, Tzimisce, you're drunk.

>>43547600

I do tend to recommend it outside of WoD games, yeah. That and Your Story from Dresden Files. There's not a whole lot of setting creation advice for modern city based games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eiut_qUNBI

So, past life regression. Big in oWoD, not so much in nWoD. Do you use it in your games?

>>43548154
What if you were an oWoD character in your past life, with your current one in nWoD?

>>43548181

I assume upon discovering this, your character's life would become very, very complicated.

Can anyone familiar with old mage explain what are EDEs and what crazy high level stuff you can do with the dimensional science sphere of the technocrats?

>>43536467
for the fifth Renascence, possession might be viable. Like an Underworld Goauld or the ghostly fusion of Geists.

where can find all books mediafire?

>>43551004

I'm not being condescending, but google it. WoD books are super easy to get with a little bit of googling. I used to have a mediafire folder I'd use and I would link that, but that one got shut down a while ago, I'm afraid.

>>43551004
>>43551674
Well I *AM* being condescending, and it looks like someone's grandmother accidentally posted while TRYING to google it.

>>43551983

Why are you against the elderly trying to game, anon. Have you considered that The Greatest Generation also wants to feel intense bouts of personal horror?

>>43552091
>Have you considered that The Greatest Generation also wants to feel intense bouts of personal horror?

All they have to do is realize they sired the Boomers through the Millennials and that should be enough to drive them to madness.

>>43552137

No, no, no, that's Real Horror. Personal Horror is when you scream "What have I done?!" while wearing vampire fangs and wearing a cape.

>>43552137
What about the fact that they helped crash the economy and are still ruining the country with their poor decisions and lack of awareness of global events and social justice, because they come from an age where you knew everyone you'd ever know and they were really the only people who'd affect your life (until the war) and technology meant tractors and cars and those newfangled televisions?

Oh what horror they realize when they understand that their reality was in many ways myopic, and that myopic failure to realize the grander picture of the world and their place in it--and indeed the consequences their actions have on the world--has in many ways doomed the current generation to clean up not only their mess, but the mess of their children, and that the next generation will likely still be cleaning up their children's children's messes?

Also if they aren't dead by now all their friend are and they'll be joining them soon. That's horrifying as well, I guess. But Reaganism and global warming are also pretty bad.

>>43543222
We've been over this. He's an ancient vampire who runs at supersonic speeds dragging the sleigh behind him and when he comes to town his changeling vanguard bursts out of there like a jack in the box to hold off the hunters while he delivers presents.

>>43552682

That's gotta be at least Celerity 6, right?

>>43552776
It was all sorts of shit. I think we concluded Santa's whole get-up is multiple pieces of five dot hedgespun raiments geared to speed and that Missus Claus was a mage with access to Time or Forces. Frankly the idea that Santa Motherfucking Claus is the most powerful being in the World of Darkness and could wreck anyone's shit if he felt like it but all he wants to do is hand out toys and occasionally set fire to people who mess around with the kids on the nice list was worth all that autistic numbercrunching.

>>43552908

>Vampire Santa
>Changeling Reindeer
>Mage Mrs. Claus
>Beast Krampus

You know what. I'm down for that campaign.

>>43552626
That's the Boomers, not the Greatest Generation.

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What would you say is the most popular VtR clan?

Not in-universe, of course.

So I want to write up a character sheet for Sobek, the Crocodile God.

What would be the best way to go about this? Draft up a Mokole sheet and then convert it to a vampire? What edition would this work best in?

>>43553016

Daeva. Sexy Vampires rule the roost.

>>43553025
could be some pertinent stuff in Scion?

>>43553207
Well, he's not literally a god. He's a 4th generation Settite sired from a Mokole. A small typhonic cult worships his huge, slumbering ass.

>>43552626
Thats the Boomers man

The Greatest Generation were the ones who fought Hitler and then went home to work on the ambigiously leftist New Deal policies their kids all hate

>>43553016
Mekhet.

All the darkness and cool abilities of the Lasombra without any of the social dickness. Practically everyone has come up with an idea for a mekhet ninja.

>>43541834
I'd say so. The endless ghosts to deal with lend for easy sidequest bait or enemies in a world. As does the desires of your geist or creating and building up a krewe. Journeying to the Underworld and seeing what stuff is down there also builds morbid curiosity.

>>43543449
Krampus seems more like Beast material than anything else. Especially with lessons or whatnot.

>>43553553
>without any of the social dickness

Without obtenebration too

Don't even bring up that khaibit shit

>>43552989
>>43553455
Aren't they all dead, then?

>>43553696
I don't really see Geist working well as an open world game, though. I feel like open world is sort of a gimmick, and that not every game needs it. I feel that most WoD games would be best as a more controlled sort of Bloodlines style game. Which come to think of it the fact that you could only murder people in certain situations really helped that game. It wouldn't have been nearly as good if it was GTA style where you could go around murdering pedestrians (often by accident) or kill people you didn't want to deal with. Even Skyrim or New Vegas style would have probably ruined the tone and lead to just youtube videos of people killing NPCs and shit.

>>43553728
Probably, but my character is essentially a Moros, so I'm looking for ghost shit.
Like I said, this is actually not for nWoD, I'm just trying to write stuff based on my experience with nWoD. But genericized, like people say Dresden is obviously oMage inspired (I don't see it)

>>43554152

No? They're old but not dead, dude. The last veteran of World War I died only very recently. It'll be a while before The Greatest Generation goes. We even have a few Lost Generations kicking around in the world.

>>43554152

The only way you could do Geist is open world. A Sin-Eater's deal is that they wander around their turf, looking for ghost mysteries, or traveling to the Underworld. An open world city is the best way to get across the freedom of the second chance. Just because it's played out doesn't mean that it's not an effective gameplay choice. Something like Changeling or Promethean can be more focused, but Geist demands emergent gameplay by its very openness.

Also, you could kill as many people as you wanted in Bloodlines. Just because Hunters would get on your ass doesn't mean that you couldn't do that. It's the same deal as Notoriety in GTA. I also don't see the problem with letting the player do kill videos on YouTube. There's videos of people showing off their kills with their Disciplines in Bloodlines and it's not like it magically makes that story worse. Players being players isn't going to sully the holy writer of the video game writer or whatever.

>>43543923
You can google the fucking manga page. It only has one w and one r, and lots of ys.

>>43553261
Mokole who are embraced don't last more than a single night, and die at sunrise. Vampire was drunk when it started reading about them and should have gone home.

>>43554545
I don't see why Geist would inherently need to be open world. You could do a Geist visual novel.

And I thought you could only murder people in certain places. And the reason a game might want to not allow that is because tone is important, and mechanics can reinforce tone. Creating a place where players can't kill NPCs or use their powers all willy nilly means tighter control over tone.

Put a different way, I can't count the number of times my "I'm totally going to actually do a roleplay run" declaration has quickly turned into being a wanted woman and everyone in Whiterun dead because I tried to do something, failed, and decided to kill everyone I could.

>>43554607

>I don't see why Geist would inherently need to be open world. You could do a Geist visual novel.

You could do anything as a visual novel if you really wanted, but that doesn't mean it's the way to go with the property. The point is that you want to pick the gameplay style that has the best fit for the game as it presents itself. For Geist, it's a gameplay style that allows the player a lot of freedom and exploration since the tabletop's gameplay is player driven and motivated, for better or worse. You want to give the player the opportunity to play with the carrot/stick mechanics of Synergy and the emergent gameplay of Key/Manifestation combos. That sounds like an open world game to me, or at least the very least a pseudo-open world like Bloodlines/Deux-Ex that provides the same sort of freedom.

Also in the open hubs of Bloodlines, you can pretty much kill whoever, it'll just bring down the cops on your ass, and they'll fuck you up. Bringing Disciplines or feeding openly call down Masquerade violations as well.


>Put a different way, I can't count the number of times my "I'm totally going to actually do a roleplay run" declaration has quickly turned into being a wanted woman and everyone in Whiterun dead because I tried to do something, failed, and decided to kill everyone I could.

That's a problem with your self control. That's not really a problem with the game. Like, there's a point to what you're saying, but that tone can just as easily be broken when the player realizes that their previous freedoms have been curtailed. There's a reason folks tend to just jump around and do silly things on their second or third play-through of Half-Life 2. I'd say that's a tone killer too, despite Valve's best intentions to keep you immersed.

>>43554815
>That's a problem with your self control. That's not really a problem with the game.
Most people tend to have the same problem.

>>43554286
>The last veteran of World War I died only very recently
Makes me sad.

>>43554815
>You could do anything as a visual novel if you really wanted,

/tg/ tried to plot a nWoD eroge VN a few years ago

Vampire was Main Girl
Werewolf was tomboy
Hunter was trying to get you to turn against the other girls
Mage was eccentric girl
Promethean was shrinking violet
Geist was nee-san
Your childhood friend was a Fetch, your REAL childhood friend is actually a Changeling trying to contact you without tipping off that fetch

>>43554576
He is 4th gen. Things can get kind of weird at low levels.

>>43555418
Creepy stalker demon?
Yandere Beast?

>>43553031
And they get celerity. They're pretty great.

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>>43541331
>except for the superficial "they float behind you" aspect.
That's all you need Anon. Now go get some meds for that migraine of yours.

>>43555616

Mummy's the School Princess with a powerful clique. She's going to be "taking a break" from school very soon, but for now wants to pursue a lost love, one she only barely remembers. You happen to look very similar, or so she claims.

Beast Route is Twins: Yankee Beast and her twin sister Student President Hero. Can you heal the rift between them? Do you even want to?

Demon's your Homeroom Teacher. Demon's the Principal. Demon's the school nurse. Demon's the mysterious wanderer you keep meeting on Main Street. She's secretly all the same paranoid girl, and if you can suss her out, it's time for some fourth wall breaking shenanigans.

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whoops, forgot my image; fits more Geist than Beast, though

>>43557666
>Yankee Beast
American, New Yorker, or delinquent?

There's a lot of difference between a cabbie from the Bronx and someone with bleach blonde hair slav-squatting with a bokken over their shoulder.

>>43532686

Be careful what you wish for.
>the status quo is too static
>suddenly age of sigmar

>>43553031
>Walking corpses swimming with other people's bodily fluids and associated microorganisms
>Sexy
Pick one.

>>43554607
>I tried to do something, failed, and decided to kill everyone I could.
I feel like this is more of an indication of you having problems appropriately dealing with failure.

>>43558769
Blood is transfused immediately into Vitae, which is the essence of Life itself. If you like life, a vampire is sexy.

>>43554102
>Don't even bring up that khaibit shit
You mean obtenebration? Yes, they have it.

>>43559261
>the essence of Life itself
>Anything but Sekhem
>chortlingmummies.png

>>43559378
There isn't a single actual MtC reaction image, is there.

>>43546135
Can a Beast change their Life or their Legend?

>>43555594
Fuck that. If you're using Garou instead of Lupines, Sobek is just some vampire with the Serpentis power to make you look like some kind of beast-headed deity.

>>43558194

Delinquent, of course. Though maybe she's a cabbie as a side job and drops off people in the wrong part of town...intentionally.

>>43559564
There's nothing in the book that says they can.

But then, there's nothing in the book that says they can't.

Changing their Life would probably be easier, finding a new "rock" - so to speak - to anchor your humanity to. Changing the howling hunger driving your Horror to feed that is Legend is probably more of an important plot point in your chronicle.

>>43559651

Was there ever an attempt to differentiate Lupines from Garou, aside from Lupines using Vampire mechanics? I figure with One World of Darkness, Lupines are out either way, but I'm curious.

>>43541651
Swaggerin' Cletus. He ain't to bright ( on the account of being born from an incestuous union) but he can get you whatever you need. The best in sneaking and stealing.

>>43559936
>Changing the howling hunger driving your Horror to feed that is Legend is probably more of an important plot point in your chronicle.
Just as important as trying out a new diet?

I may have read too much Pterry when I came up with this but, wouldn't the Tooth Fairy from Hogfather be good example of a Beast with a, shall we say, 'interesting' Chronicle coming to it's end...

>"I used to jump out at them and shout 'BOO!, but then I got to like them. Only children where frightened of me, I mean, what's to be scared of? Horns? Boney arms? But then I discovered there were much worse things than me, and I wanted to protect the children, keep them safe, from all the really Bad things."
>"And the teeth?"
>"Oh, if you leave all those teeth lyin' around, anything might 'appen!"
>"Anything nearly did...So, you are the Tooth Fairy then?"
>"Yes! I...ooh...then, they came, stealin'...I'm too weak to look after 'em anymore. Eh...you don't die here, just get old, listening to the laughter..."

I just realized, with Beast...you can make the Planeteers.

>>43558795
I meant more "whoops, they saw me pickpocketing, gotta fight back; whoops, now a bounty is on me; whoops, might as well just kill as many people as I can because it's fun".
I know I'm not the only person who's done that.

>>43560092
>The Tooth Fairy himself was "The" Bogeyman who collected the children's teeth in order to protect them from the old mind-control magic.
I'm not up on Pratchett, and the wiki doesn't put a hyperlink there. What do teeth and mind control magic have in common?

>>43560145
>What do teeth and mind control magic have in common?
It's basically Thaumaturgy, if you get a small part of someone can use it as a focus to either find them, or control them.

>>43560102

You're going to need to clarify that.

>>43560145
sympathetic magic

>>43560473
I was a bit sleep-deprived when I came up with the idea that each of the five Beast Families lines up to one of the Planeteers (Kwame is an Anakim, Gi is a Makara, et cetera.).

There's been another interview with Paradox about the purchase of WW and their plans for the IP.

They're clearly exciting about LARPing, video games, and the classic WOD. It's totally unclear what, if anything, this means for Onyx Path or the new WOD.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/09/white-wolf-interview/#more-327115

>>43560687

I read that and drew some conclusions. Wild speculation abounds:

>White Wolf is very happy with Onyx Path and By Night, but wants more direct control over the IP. Their "uniting under one banner" was actually criticizing CCP for making OPP and BNS do the heavy lifting for the fandom.

>Dracula's a huge WoD fan, both old and new, but he's got Ideas and he isn't afraid to use them. Metaplot will be revived, and nWoD's getting one too, or at least Promethean.

>One World of Darkness might actually mean exactly what it says: oWoD and nWoD are one universe. Dracula apparently has "extreme" ideas on how to accomplish his vision, meaning we might see a Week of Nightmares type event to fuse the universes together.

>Dracula continues to have great taste in WoD games.

>BNS and OPP will continue to function, but under a much stricter licensing agreement (X many books out by Y, perhaps a WoD bible they have to follow)

>White Wolf remembered Exalted exists. Could be good, could be bad.

>>43560879
>Metaplot will be revived, and nWoD's getting one too, or at least Promethean.
I don't really see that as happening.

Keep in mind that metaplot is not very newcomer friendly, and they said they wanted to make it accessible to "neonates".

I also don't see anything that suggests a merger of nWoD and oWoD.

>>43560879

I still read the "One World of Darkness" and "uniting under one banner" as more a reference to cross-platform consistency, including LARP, RPG, card games, comics, and most importantly, video games, primarily with the much better known classic WOD. I also don't believe any plans have been finalized, or anything necessarily implies the end of the new WOD, no less Exalted. If market confusion is a concern, there's a lot that could be done without cancelling the game lines.

I do agree, however, that Paradox will take a much more active creative hand in the WW IP than CCP, which was essentially nothing other than the odd decision to first object to nWOD second editions.

At the very least, we'll likely see some setting changes, but the nature and extent is still a complete unknown.

>>43561000

Metaplot is good for video games, card games and comics, particularly supplements and expansions.

The metaplot talk might also still only relate to the classic WOD, without any major changes to the new, metaplot-agnostic WOD.

>>43561045
I don't see how the presence or lack of a metaplot would add or detract to video games. VtM:B didn't need metaplot. It had the setting, but that's no the same as a metaplot. "There are antideluvians that will one day awaken and bring about the end of the world" is setting.

"The Gangrel leave the Camarilla and the Ravnos all die in the next book" is metaplot.

>>43561000

Heavy metaplot is not very newcomer friendly. A light transmedia narrative, though? With an easily accessed central source, you could set up a continuing storyline pretty easily. It's not like the 90s where changes happen unannounced from book to book, you could have something in the video games affect the books, and then events in the books affect the TV show or something. In an era where people love making wikis, it's at least viable.

The nWoD/oWoD fusion is a stretch, yeah. It's solely based on it being mentioned that he has very extreme ideas on how to tell his WoD story. It's probably the most extreme idea I could think of, but I could never have the mind of Dracula.

There's no doubt that White Wolf is going to be very hands on with their property, though. I expect there to be a new bible for all the lines.

>>43561085

VtM:B WAS metaplot. The events of the fledgling in Santa Monica were canon and explained why the Kuei-Jin started to lose hold of their Great Leap Forward or whatever. We also learn that the cabbie isn't Caine, but a Malk who thinks he is, but that's White Wolf covering its ass from any grumbling that could arise from the game's revelation.

Also people fucking LOVE metaplot. Why do you think there's an event treadmill in comics? Why do you think LOST got so popular. A metaplot means speculation and clues and putting the pieces together. It's a great way to hook in people and ensure brand loyalty. It's water cooler talk taken to its logical extreme.

Monday Meeting notes WHEN

I need to know if OPP is kill.

>>43561399

Not usually till after 5pm EST. I doubt we'll learn anything new.

>>43551983
did. didn't find. now help your grannie or I'll forcefeed you ribbon candy and stop giving you $50 in your birthday cards even though you're 37

>>43561399

I doubt OPP knows anything more than a few days ago. It will be weeks or months before the dust settles, plans are finalized, and legal relationships memorialized.

I expect Rich to mention that CURRENT Kickstarters will be honored, consistent with his tweets, and then provide an updated production schedule as usual, as if nothing else is happening behind the scenes.

>>43561566

At most, this week's Reason to Drink will be something like "negotiations with White Wolf. Exciting times!!!!"

>>43561566
>It will be weeks or months before the dust settles, plans are finalized, and legal relationships memorialized.
It sounds like Mage 2e is going to manage to squeeze it's way out before anything is doomed, then, at least.

>>43554576
Set severed Sobek's ties to Helios with some 10 dot power. He's the only Mokole vampire in existence, and is Insane and Miserable.

>>43559651
Talk about fucking boring. Compare that to a huge, albino prehistoric crocodile, which is also an ancient powerful vampire.

>>43561660

I think we'll likely see the release of the Mage 2e corebook and Signs of Sorcery. Anything else is far too speculative.

Dave even indicated on rpg.net today that the fate of the other announced supplement, Tome of the Pentacle, now rests entirely with Paradox.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?769514-nMage-2e-What-s-the-difference-between-the-Seers-and-the-Guardians&p=19544177#post19544177

>>43561660

It's not like the contracts for everything in production are null and void. Everything on the schedule is guaranteed to be finished because it's going places. Anything OFF the schedule, that's what's up in the air.

it's so depressing how some LARP hack fuckhead is gonna ruin both world of darkness gamelines.

>>43561803

LARPers were always the most passionate WoD fans, so it makes sense that they would inevitably own the IP.

>>43561716
Which could include Deviant.... damn.

>>43561981

I certainly wouldn't hold my breadth waiting for Deviant.

Right now we'll be lucky if the nWOD finishes publication of the second editions of the major lines and few supplements.

>>43561981

And One Thousand Years of Night, the VtR Elder book that's been announced over a year ago but currently isn't on the schedule. I think there's some other books in that state as well: Hunter Second Edition and Changeling 2e: The Hedge are at the top of my head.

>>43562051
Hopefully at least Secrets of the Covenants and The Pack still make it.

>>43561238
They became part of the metaplot after the fact. It's not the kind of thing where you needed to know the events of all previous novels to know what was going on, and since it was self contained it's not like you needed to know how the events of the game changed the world itself.

LOST didn't have a metaplot. Only RPGs can have a metaplot, because the "meta" part is the part where the world goes on without your specific characters having a part of it. Ostensibly when the Gangrel decide to leave the Camarilla, YOUR Gangrel does the same. When all the Ravnos everywhere die, YOUR Ravnos dies.

Metaplot isn't the same as other work's continuity.

>>43561165
I could see a more defined setting--or even just a "Canon" setting for stuff where you're given several options--where the multimedia games are treated as different aspects of a chronicle. The way you do this is by having things affect the characters, not the world.

Dresden Files RPG does this pretty well by being set before the major shake up to the series' status quo. It also follows a series of stories, but doesn't force you to follow that, and even though it's ostensibly got a Metaplot to follow, it gleefully suggests ways to ignore it, like having Spring and Autumn Faerie Courts,

A WoD that did the opposite of that--had a bunch of various options in the RPGs and went with specific ones in the multimedia--would be cool. Like, Vampire the RPG doesn't really mention anything about Gehenna or care about it in specifics, but Vampire: The Series is all about the coming of Gehenna and an Antideluvian awakening, but doesn't effect the RPG at all. Think of it like how Marvel doesn't have the MCU affect the 616 universe in-continuity, only from a real world point of view (Nick Fury being replaced by his black son Nick Fury Jr. who's best friend is Phil Coulson).

>>43562064

Secrets of the Covenants is in editing and The Pack is actually being written, so they should be fine. Anything in Art Direction, Layout, and Proofing is definitely going to make it.

can we all at least agree that having metaplot between Editions to explain changes to the rules is the most moronic thing ever conceived

>>43562132
In general yes. However I like remnants of a previous edition showing up, like Gilgamesh in FF games

>>43562189
That's more of a thematic thing. It's like when an artist paints the same subject.

>>43562132
Oh god, yes.

That one's pretty bad.

>>43562088

Metaplot is fiction's continuity and progression applied to the RPG, so yes it is. It's exactly the same as an in depth TV show plot or the ARG before a movie in practice: it encourages speculation, it gives you very specific characters they want you to fan over, and most importantly it keeps you coming back every month/week. The immediate change on your game is different, sure, but in essence it's the same deal.

Also options are great for the RPG player, but for the transmedia fan, continuity is king. We might get a standard "well, you don't HAVE to follow this if you don't want to", but in a world where folks are coming in after the latest shocking revelation from a WoD video game or comic, they may not be too keen on options.

>>43562132

Yep. I blame D&D for getting that ball rolling. Fucking Time of Troubles ruined an entire decade of gaming.

>>43561981
Deviants Morality track would have been called Empathy, right?

>>43562274
> but in a world where folks are coming in after the latest shocking revelation from a WoD video game or comic, they may not be too keen on options

I like transmedia stuff generally but man, this shit always ends poorly in the endless upping of the ante that always goes on in these settings

like I could see it making for some fun videogames and tv shows or whatever (the shows will either start shit or get shit after a couple of seasons for the same reason) but with the RPGs, it'll just be stupid fucking shit that should've been in the corebook for STs to run games with forever ago

>>43562385

I wonder if we'll end up getting a Vampire show on Netflix. Dracula apparently made his own WoD fan TV show before becoming Lead Storyteller.

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>>43562274
(Pic isn't how I feel about you, I just wanted to upload this reaction image)
>Metaplot is fiction's continuity and progression applied to the RPG, so yes it is.
It's the specific "applied to the RPG" thing that makes difference. It's not about the depth, it's about how RPGs are supposed to be player driven but metaplots are inherently NPC driven.

>Also options are great for the RPG player, but for the transmedia fan, continuity is king
Once again, see Marvel and DC. The MCU doesn't affect the 616 comics didn't effect the Ultimates comics doesn't affect the video games doesn't affect the Spider-Man cartoons.

Now, don't get me wrong. The 616 comics have changed a bit to be more accessible to people coming in from the movies (and to focus on things Marvel owns the movie rights to, which is why X-Men are in the comics less, and why Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are no longer Magneto's kids). Like I said, Nick Fury is now technically Nick Fury, Jr. who looks just like Samuel L. Jackson but younger. Phil Coulson is in the comics.
Hell, in the other of the Big Two, Harley Quinn is in the comics and Mr Freeze is a sympathetic character.

But that doesn't mean that the Chitauri attacked New York in the comics, and it doesn't mean that AXIS and Secret Wars affected the MCU.

>>43562461
I know we'll get TV shows. What's this about a fan show?

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>>43562516
And why Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver aren't mutants and aren't related to Magneto anymore. It's why 616 Nick Fury is black and has a partner/best friend named Coulson. It's why the Fantastic Four has been disbanded and the Spider-man cartoon characters were killed off. The MCU directly affects the comics, which directly affect other media.

>>43562628
And why they can't make new X-men or FF merch.

>>43562516

It's in the interview. Dracula's so into WoD that one of his webseries is intended to be set in the setting, in the most copyright friendly way possible.

>>43562688
how much more of a faggot could he possibly be?

>>43562516

Fair enough, I'm willing to concede that I'm splitting hairs there.

Man, I just wish we'd know what the big plans are already.

>>43562717
See, and that makes me worried. I would have prefered an RPG fan with some distance. Who can grasp the appeal of the WW properties, but who is not in balls-deep and who has clear favourites.

Having a fan at the helm (ironically) almost always ends poorly. The inmates should not be running the asylum.

>>43562773
> but who is not in balls-deep and who has clear favourites.

Who DOES NOT have clear favourites

>>43562688
Sounds like cWoD fans are going to get the shaft while nWoD is going to be left on its own to continue being awesome.

>>43562628
The MCU isn't directly affecting comics, it's indirectly affecting them. The 616 universe became more friendly to the newcomers, but the events of the movies didn't actually themselves have an impact on the comics. The REAL WORLD affected the plot.

"Let's make this look more like that". Not "this in universe changed that". There will never be a Crisis on Infinite Worlds that effects both comic and movies. They'll never really cross streams.

Also, what Spider-Man cartoon characters were killed off? Marvel owns the rights to the Spider-Man cartoon. Ultimate Spider-Man is all Marvel, that's why Coulson is Spider-Man's principle.

Hell, Spider-Man is the one property not really affected by the movie rights being licensed to someone else until recently. Spider-Man is all the fuck over everything. Video games, TV shows, comics, huge crossover events. Marvel said "fuck the Fantastic Four" and "fuck the X-Men", but Spider-Man has been going strong everywhere BUT the movies.

>>43562773
What are you talking about? People always complain about "inmates running the asylum", but when a property switches owners--because the original owners move on or die or whatever--there are basically two outcomes: New IP owners who weren't fans of the original and don't "get" it or fans who LOVED the original and want to basically make their fanfictions canon while not fucking everything up.

And the inmates are always the better option because they're going to better understand the core. People who don't care is what turns the Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six games from a super realistic military tactics game into a forgettable everyday squad shooter.

I WANT the guy who made a web series of Vampire.

>>43562688

Er, my bad. Lemme make a correction:

>Martin's credentials stretch much further than just previously having worked over at White Wolf/CCP. He's created two major participatory EU TV-series (one of then he swears was designed to be unofficially comparable with WoD) and runs LARPs for Nokia in central London with Tim Kring of Heroes fame. He's been a prominent games researcher and keynote lecturer on the power of participatory culture.

>He's one of the most influential players on the European LARP scene and it's known as the bad boy of Nordic LARP, running adult games in Shakespeare's Elsinore Castle, in abandoned nuclear reactors and decommissioned military ships. Google him and you'll dig up some pretty wild stuff. He's probably going to use his penname "Elricsson" in his new position. Pretty suitable considering the origins of the White Wolf name. He's a massive fan of all incarnations of WoD but not an uncritical one.

It'a not an ACTUAL webseries, but some kind of LARP TV show thing I think.

>>43562882
>known as the bad boy of Nordic LARP, running adult games in Shakespeare's Elsinore Castle, in abandoned nuclear reactors and decommissioned military ships

how much more embarrassing can it get

>>43562882

Also, I AM googling him as suggested, and his Dracula picture is his Linked In Avatar. Honestly if I was Dracula, I'd do that too.

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>>43562882
>keynote lecturer on the power of participatory culture.

>>43562882

do we know what his favorites and least favorites are? if he tries to make werewolf cosmology default i will be pissed.

>>43562869
Except in this case the guy has to appease not one, but dozens of fandoms. Imagine if Marvel and DC fused, but the new guy in charge of story development was a Marvel fan only or a fan of Spider-Man and Batman but feels meh about other heroes.

>>43562869
>The MCU isn't directly affecting comics, it's indirectly affecting them. The 616 universe became more friendly to the newcomers, but the events of the movies didn't actually themselves have an impact on the comics. The REAL WORLD affected the plot.
Yes, I was referring to the MCU as a series of movies, not an in-universe event. And it directly affected the comics. Saying it became more friendly to newcomers is ridiculous, since they're still too pussy to do a hard reboot like they need to.
>>43562869
>Also, what Spider-Man cartoon characters were killed off?
SpiderMan and friends, the ones in that picture. >>43562628

The reason Marvel is content with Spiderman is because they don't own Peter Parker, but they do own Miles Morales. So they can put in not-Spiderman in the Avengers movie without needing anyone elses approval. It's also why other spider characters are being pushed and Peter Parker's superheroing is being dialed down.

>>43562899

How about the CEO of White Wolf having a pair of LARP fangs?

>RPS: Does this mean we can expect World of Darkness LARPing at the next Paradox Convention?

>Sjörgen: Haha, that would be awesome, if so I will for sure bring my custom made fangs and be one in the crowd. I'm keen to find out what tastes the sweetest, journalist or YouTuber blood...

Our new CEO and Fearless Leader, everyone.

>>43562932

So far, we know that Dracula's super into VtM (enough to be the official Dracula), Wraith, and Promethean.

>>43562899

that actually sounds kinda awesome.

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>>43562899
>>known as the bad boy of Nordic LARP
he's totally a wigelius

>>43563081
>That camera lingering on them just long enough to get really uncomfortable
And what the fuck are the boys doing? Why are they doing ridiculous poses while the girls act normal?

>>43563081
>dat webm

Oh Sweden... whatever happened to the Lion of the North?

>Specialties: Augmented Reality, Game design, universe creation, IP design, gamemastering, dramatic writing, funding applications, short fiction, interactive acting, hypertext writing, tabletop and live action roleplaying.

You know what? For now, Dracula's all right by me. Also the linked in says that he's been working for White Wolf since April, meaning this deal must have been in the dark for MONTHS.

>>43562899
Look, Nordic LARP is actually pretty cool compared to American LARP, but really you can't be embarrassed of dorkiness when you're looking for someone to run an RPG business. Playing pretend is literally the business model.

>>43562773
Also, let's not forget that Inmates are running the OPP asylum. I don't agree with DaveB on everything, but he's a great inmate.

>>43562924
What does that even mean? "People who participate in things have more power than people who don't"? Isn't that kind of obvious?
I don't need a keynote telling me that I'd feel like I have more agency in my life if I participated in things. I already know that, I'm just really lazy.

>>43562939
Not really. I mean, I'm pretty sure Kevin Feige has favourites, but it's not like the MCU is in trouble because of it.

>>43562998
>Yes, I was referring to the MCU as a series of movies, not an in-universe event. And it directly affected the comics.
That's not the same thing. The MCU changed 616 in looks, basically. Nothing from the Avengers movie actually changed anything within the comics. The events never effected anything. What happened was they said "let's changed X to look more like Y". That's not a thing that's ever really going to happen in an RPG. An equivalent thing would be if Beckett were a black guy in Vampire: The Series and the cWoD metaplot said Beckett had a son once who was also embraced and they had Beckett retire and his son-Beckett became the new Beckett

Also... no, they couldn't have put Miles Morales in The Avengers. They couldn't use any Spider-Man aspects in the MCU. That's how licensing works. I also don't know what characters are dead in that image. I know that Peter Parker isn't dead. He was for a while, with Doc Ock in his body. But that's back to normal

>>43563026
>Jokes about vampires from a guy running a company that makes vampire games is cringeworthy
Jesus, Anon, are you the kind of guy who keeps your RPGs in a shoebox so that your friends don't make fun of you?

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>>43563123
>Why are they doing ridiculous poses while the girls act normal?
>ridiculous poses
>act normal
I don't know what you're referring to.

>>43563151
>Also, let's not forget that Inmates are running the OPP asylum. I don't agree with DaveB on everything, but he's a great inmate.
And OPP was subject to their soulless corporate CCP overlords who didn't give a damn about the IP one way or the other. And wasn't it great?

>>43563173
No?
I mean, we complain to no end about how CCP didn't give a shit and how that negatively affected things. Rich was single handedly keeping WoD afloat.

>>43563156
>wear hijab to show humility and dedication to God
>take gangsta selfies on tv

Why even bother wearing it?

>>43563151
>That's not the same thing. The MCU changed 616 in looks, basically.
Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Inhumans who aren't related to Magneto. Mutants being killed off, again. Fantastic Four breaking up and some of them being erased from existence.

>They couldn't use any Spider-Man aspects in the MCU. That's how licensing works. I also don't know what characters are dead in that image.
Miles Morales isn't Spider-man. He's Spiderman.
>I know that Peter Parker isn't dead. He was for a while, with Doc Ock in his body. But that's back to normal
He's not dead, but they're dialing back his superheroing, he's basically just a millionaire playboy now who pays people to do superheroing for him.

>>43563081
>>43563156
Okay, what the hell IS this?

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>>43563156
>Two gay boys and angered black muslim.
Perfect.

>>43563187
>Why even bother wearing it?
Daddy said.
+
Get massive Islamic vote.

>>43563187
She's a kid, do you really think she's wearing a hijab because she's made a personal choice to publicly express her moral and ethical principles?

>>43563123
Already preparing for their femboy kek days. Gotta show off that nice meat.

>>43563194
Google just brings up a million /pol/ threads. It might well be a 4chan original production.

>>43563215
And what about the teenage / adult ones that wear them with full makeup and figurehugging clothes?

>>43563151

I think it's harmless and kind of endearing but that doesn't mean I'm not going to poke fun at it. The world's not going to end when one dork teases another dork, especially when one dork is a millionaire and another dork just posts on 4chan.

>>43563184

We might soon desperately pine for the good old days of CCP when they didn't get in the way of the creative vision of the tabletop RPG developers and writers for both cWOD and nWOD as we begin to experience the conglomerated, "edgy" metaplot hell of the new "One World of Darkness" envisioned by our new Swedish LARPing overlords.

>>43563239
Just google "vem vet mest junior" as seen on the bottom left.

>>43563194

It's a kids quiz show. Apparently it's become the hot new meme.

>>43563269
>£381.37 prize

Shit, that's more than most people got on The Weakest Link

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>>43563190
>Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver being Inhumans who aren't related to Magneto.
Yeah, because they can't use the term "Mutant" in the MCU.

Also, you are dramatically missing the point. The actual EVENTS of the MCU have not affected the comics. The REAL WORLD has affected the comics. Again, there is a major difference. In the MCU, Nick Fury was always black and Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were always mutated by the Tesseract. In the comics, things were added or retconned to explain those changes. The continuity wasn't changed to follow the movies, events and revelations happened to make it closer to the movies. That's not the same.

>He's not dead, but they're dialing back his superheroing, he's basically just a millionaire playboy now who pays people to do superheroing for him.
No, Superior Spider-Man (Doc Ock) dialed back his superheroing and created a legion of Spider-Man themed henchmen to fight crime, and allowed the cops to deal with problems. It's actually a big deal that now that Peter Parker is back in his own body that he does *more* crime fighting than Superior Spider-Man did. There's even a bit where he wants to listen to a police scanner and Doc Ock Spider-Man's girlfriend says *her* Pe-- the other Spider-Man let the cops handle problems when they could.

>Miles Morales isn't Spider-man. He's Spiderman.
No. That's incredibly wrong and dumb. Pic related. Also, >>43562516 this image was appropriate.
When Sony purchased the rights to Spider-Man, they purchased the (movie) rights to all Spider-Man related properties. If they had wanted to do a Spider-Verse movie, they could have.
Just like Fox has ALL the movie license to X-Men. Since "Mutants" are part of the X-Men franchise, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were actually in limbo (because they're also part of the Avengers franchise). This is why they weren't allowed to be "Mutants" in the Age of Ultron
And also why he wasn't allowed to be called "Quicksilver" in Days of Future Past.

>>43563260

How the hell do you do a "provocative" and "contemporary" storyline for WoD anyways? Vampire Edward Snowden? The Garou Nation version of the Trans-Pacific Partnership? HIT Marks that are also drones?

>>43563385
>Vampire Edward Snowden?
Please, he's clearly a Mage.
>HIT Marks that are also drones?
So HIT Marks?

Also, provocative and contemporary doesn't necessarily mean "major political world news headline".

>>43563360
>Also, you are dramatically missing the point.
No, I've read and responded to your point, you just don't get it.
>The actual EVENTS of the MCU have not affected the comics. The REAL WORLD has affected the comics.
This is what I've said. Just as the release of Advanced D&D is what spurred on shit like the Time of Troubles, the creation of the MCU has spurred on massive changes throughout the comics.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are not mutants in the comics, because they don't want them to be in the movies. They aren't related to Magneto in the comics because they don't want them to be in the movies. Nick Fury has a black son replacement in the comics because that's the way it is in the movies.
>No, Superior Spider-Man (Doc Ock) dialed back his superheroing and created a legion of Spider-Man themed henchmen to fight crime, and allowed the cops to deal with problems.
And the new Peter Parker is doing the same thing.
http://www.newsarama.com/25971-giuseppe-camuncoli-on-amazing-spider-man.html
The long-time Spider-Man artist is working with Dan Slott on the Amazing Spider-Man relaunch for "All-New All-Different Marvel," placing Peter Parker in a different kind of suit -- a tuxedo -- as a well-to-do businessman in charge of Parker Industries. Camuncoli, who goes by the nickname Cammo, describes the wall-crawler's new status quo as "Iron Man meets Batman Inc.," but with Parker charting his own unique path -- with two surprise bodyguards in tow.

>>43563385

I admit to being curious about werewolf George Bush, Changeling Barack Obama, and Vampire Bashar al-Assad...

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>>43563156

>>43563420

It means OWOD needs to be brought up to the current time thematically. Works are products of their time and all that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNOVGVNkRww
>Note to self: Never visit this Lodge.

>>43563492
>Works are products of their time and all that.

The fuck was going on when they wrote Wraith?

>>43563492

So it has to stop being oWoD.

Because huge chunks of oWoD are so distilled 90s that trying to update them will be a total shitshow of dissonance.

>>43563492

The V20 stuff did a little bit of that, which I liked. Vampires being able to text Disciplines through the power of Thaumaturgy to each other is the best thing.

>>43563518

According to Wikipedia, Green Day released Dookie.

>>43563444
Here's a video from four days ago talking about Amazing Spider-Man versus Superior Spider-Man and their differences in personality:
https://youtu.be/jB7uF2jIixA
Spider-man is still very much all about how Great Power means Great Responsibility, and no problem is too small.

>No, I've read and responded to your point, you just don't get it.
Except that my entire point is about how the actual events of the secondary material do not directly affect the primary material. More than that, let's bring this back to the beginning:

Comics do not have a "metaplot" in the way that oWoD did. Comics are influenced by their spin-off sources and secondary properties, but they do not directly relate to the comics, and any changes that happen to make comics more familiar to the fans brought in by secondary sources is explained within the comic itself.

Meanwhile, in an RPG if you have a series of novels or supplements, those novels are canon. The changes revealed in those novels DIRECTLY changes the plot. When Week of Nightmares comes, all the Ravnos die and the Gangrel decide to quit and that becomes canon. The setting has advanced. That's metaplot. The metaplot is the way that the EVOLVING SETTING is intended to affect YOUR GAME.

The Time of Troubles was a direct IN UNIVERSE change from one edition to another. It's more related to Crisis on Infinite Earths than it is related to the fact that Nick Fury's son looks exactly like the Nick Fury from the movies, and goes by Nick Fury.

And really this is a stupid argument anyway because even if the supplementary materials--WoD TV shows or video games or novels--change things, it won't be like in the MCU and 616. It'll be more like... well, the Metaplot of oWoD. "This novel says Dunkelzahn died, so Dunkelzahn is no longer active in the setting" "This supplement has the Universal Brotherhood revealed to be a cult of Bug Spirits, so now Chicago is covered in nuclear fallout."

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>>43563694
>And really this is a stupid argument anyway
Between you not reading what I'm saying, and completely missing the point of the argument, I have to agree. If you just want to see yourself post like an idiot for no reason, you can go back to the OPP forums, but you haven't tried to comprehend a single thing I've said.

I was not saying that comics have a metaplot, that was another poster. You're probably confused because there's more than one person posting in this thread and they're not allyou.

The Time of Troubles was not an in-universe change. The change happened through the edition, the Time of Troubles was just an in-world explanation for WHY those changes existed.

>Spider-man is still very much all about how Great Power means Great Responsibility, and no problem is too small.
And like I said in the first place, he's dialed back his superheroing and is basically just a millionaire playboy who pays people to do superheroing for him. For instance this black guy.

>>43563538
that is so fucking awful

I hope this is what they do, because everyone will realize how fucking dumb it is and paradox can get rid of white wolf and farm things out to OPP again

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It's time, /wodg/. What line should I request being put into?

I can provide pics for any curious anon.

>>43564000
How is that dumb? Also, you're complaining about a thing OPP did and saying "I hope they do that so that OPP gets it back... so they can do that thing I just complained about".

Also, what's dumb is when powers don't adapt to changing technology. Although I will say blood magic through texting is dumb. Blood magic through letters would also be dumb, but slightly less dumb because at least you could write with the blood.

>>43564101
Geist.
Or /d/eviant

>>43564101
Beast - aka nWoD's Wraith

You'll be a cult classic

>>43564101

Mage!