Where do you rank dirk among power forwards all time?

Duncan
KG
Barkley
Malone
Dirk

Id argue that dirk > malone > barkley

>>78276707
Malone was better than dirk but he suffers from getting BTFO by Jordan's bulls repeatedly
Dirk has a ring

Duncan > Malone > KG > Nowitzki > Barkley

>>78276546
He will go down in history as a top 10 player of all time

>>78276627
>>78277698
Dirk is better than KG

Top 5 PF all time.

Beat the balzers(roy aldridge), lakers(kobe gasol), thunder(durant harden westbrook) & then the heatles that had lebron wade and bosh.

Only 1 ring but those playoffs and finals were fun as hell to watch.

>>78277744
KG is the better overall player.

>>78277798
He is the better overall defender. But not the better overall player.

Duncan is still untouchable. But malone wouldn't have been as great as he was w/o Stockton and Utahs system at the time

>>78277798
KG fell harder and legacy became tarnished. Dirk is better

>KG > Dirk

Fuck off with this stupid meme already. "Hurr KG was more of a two-way player than Dirk so he's better"

KG wasn't a 7 foot big man that could effortlessly sink 3s and pull off some bullshit unguardable fadeaway in the post so pretending like their offensive abilities were remotely equal is beyond retarded.

Dirk took a fat giant shit on KG in their one playoff meeting, and swept his shitty team.

Top 7. #1 offensively though

>>78279783
>Dirkfags bootyblasted

SHOCKING

KG had a better peak, better advanced stats and was literally one gorillian times the defender Dirk ever was. Dirk was a slightly better scorer. That's it.

Literally no one picks Dirk over KG if they're building a team.

What did KG do out of his first years in MIN and his stint w Boston? Dirk has the longevity over KG

>>78280062
>Literally no one picks Dirk over KG if they're building a team
boy that sure sounds like a baseless claim you just made up

>>78280062
>KG had a better peak

What, you mean failing to reach the Finals even once in the west before hopping to a super team is a better peak than going to the Finals twice and winning one without a single other all-star on the team?

You stick Dirk with a Tyson Chandler and all of a sudden you have a team that can be filled with role players and go to the Finals. KG needed a PP, Ray Allen, and Rondo to win anything, and hardly even had the distinction of being the best player on those teams. At least LeBron left no question he was #1 on every team he's been on.

And for all the talk about how great his defense was, he could NEVER shut down Dirk. He was Dirk's bitch every time they met.

>>78280062
>muh advanced stats

Dirk sits at the top of the arc, he has a defender up on him at all times. KG does the same, and his defender is slacking 5 feet off ready to give help defense.

Some things can't be quantified, and Dirk changed the entire fucking NBA with his set of skills. Modern PFs are not shaping their game after KG, they're all trying to become Dirks. KG is a diamond dozen center with better average passing ability pretending to be a PF. Given the choice between Dirk + generic modern C or KG + generic modern stretch 4, a GM takes Dirk no question.

>>78280911
Uhh in Minny KG never had someone as good as Chandler much less a bunch of good role players. Oh actually he did one year, 2004 with Cassell and they got to the WCF where Cassell got hurt and they lost to the Lakers.

So he literally never had even one year with a decent supporting cast. It was a dumpster fire. They got stripped of draft picks from the Joe Smith fiasco and continued to shit the bed. Dirk wouldn't made the finals either with those crap rosters.

>Duncan

he was a C, even Pop called him a C, he just played PF next to Robinson early in his career

>>78276546
Below KG and Duncan.
Above memes like Barkley and Malone.

>>78281136
Pop protected Duncan with big men his entire career. Big enforcer/ rebounder guys like Nestorevic got 2000+ minutes next to Duncan.

>>78281131
Troy Hudson got injured too, so they Darrick Martin and Hoiberg running the offense. Garnett was playing backup PG in that series. Still took them to 6. Wolves win the title that without the injuries.

There is literally no Debate

Dirk > KG

Defense
KG > Dirk

Offense
Dirk >>> KG

even in the defensive stats that matter KG barely is better than Dirk where as Dirk destroys him in the offensive stats

>>78281530
>even in the defensive stats that matter KG barely is better than Dirk
Post the defensive stats you're using to back up that claim

>>78281131
Uh, Lantrell Sprewell?

Here's the crux of the difference: Dirk made random players around him better while still putting up huge numbers, KG as soon as he played other good players stopped looking statistically incredible. Same with Kevin Love.

He was never capable of carrying the bulk of the offense on a team that could win a championship unlike Dirk. He was always at best an equal sidekick to another similar level player to have any real success.

Nash left Dirk, won 2 MVPS, but nobody would ever argue he was the better player now. With Dirk, it was always you could throw a completely different supporting cast around him, and the Mavs still did good every year. KG needed the right guys to even get past the first round ONCE in the West, and didn't win shit until he formed a fucking super team with 2 other HoFers.

>>78281583
>random players around him
6 of Dirk's championship team supporting cast have at least one all-star appearance. 1 is in the HoF, 1 has been a DPoY. I think he had a pretty good cast.

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>>78281530

>>78281583
Spreewell was old and washed up by the time he got to Minnesota. And by the way, we're talking about ONE YEAR. He had Spree for one year (in 05 he was just awful). So the best year he had only Spreewell.

What about the rest of KGs time in Minny? Marbury, Sczcerbiak.... and? How many other supporting guys can non-wolves fan here name? I could list off 10-15 guys easy who Dirk had.

It's just not comparable and anyone who lived through the era will attest to that. Imagine most people here didn't start watching until KG got to the Celtics or laters.

>>78281574
>Defensive Rebounds
Dirk 6.8
KG 7.8

Steals
Dirk 0.8
KG 1.3

Blocks
Dirk 0.9
KG 1.4

Not to mention in the playoffs Dirk is WAAAY better than KG. Kevin Garnett is literally a regular season babby then falls off in the playoffs while Dirk actually gets BETTER

Dirk is overall a better player than KG

>>78281660
yet none of them were in their prime

>>78281739
>box score stats to measure defense
you're clueless

>>78281761
Neither were any of KG's Big 3 in their supposed super team.

>>78281660
He was the only one who was an all star the year they won. It could be argued Chandler should have been there too, but Kidd, Marion, and Jet were just good role players at that point.

When Dirk went down that year, the Mavs went on like a 10 game losing streak after having a super dominant start to the season. Hell, when he was injured early last year as an old as shit vet, the Mavs were the worst team in the league until he came back.

Dirk does things you can't put on paper and measure, and I'm not talking about intangibles like leadership and shit, but things you COULD measure if we had a better understanding of how to measure them like how he opens up the floor for other players, can create scoring opportunities better than most when the game slows down, and can stop at the top of the arc in transition for an easy 3 points like no other PF is capable of. He fucks with defenses so much in so many ways, ways that KG could never hope to do. KG himself could never defend Dirk. A prime Dirk would still be awesome today, a prime KG would a secondary or 3rd tier player to somebody who could actually carry a team.

>>78281739
Why would you use per game stats? Garnett played low minutes his last few which drag down his numbers, doesn't make sense. Also Dirk played at a much faster pace so there were more possessions = more opportunities for box score stats.

Just use per 100 possessions

DRB
Dirk: 10.1
KG: 12

Steals
Dirk: 1.2
KG: 1.9

Blocks
Dirk: 1.3
KG: 2.1

KG blows him away

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>>78281120
>diamond dozen

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAA

dirkfags eternally BTFO

>>78281234

This is true, but if I was assembling an all-time Texas team, I'd play Duncan at the 5 and Dream at the 4

KG is Dwight Howard with a jumper
Dirk is a 7 foot tall Stephen Curry without handles

Dirk >>>>>>>> KG

>>78282030
Dwight Howard was the best center since shaq before going to LA

>>78281926
Mavs went 3-7 and lost 4 in a row when Dirk got hurt in 2011.

2009 Timberwolves won 22 games after KG left

>>78282068
*2008

>>78276546
1. Duncan
2. Barkley
3. Dirk
4. Malone
5. Garnett

>>78281951
>KG blows him away
Are we looking at the same numbers???

>>78282084
>>78282068
Wolves record post KG

2008: 22 wins
2009: 24 wins
2010: 15 wins
2011: 17 wins

less help than any other superstar throughout their prime

>>78282060
Howard and KG were relics by the turn of the decade. Their game couldn't survive in the modern NBA.

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>>78282155
>>78281951
>>78281739
>box score stats to measure defense

>>78282060
>Yao

It only lasted a few years, but he was definitely better than Dwight for a bit

Always manhandled him 1 on 1 as well

>>78282157
and we'll never know how dirks teams would have done without him if left

>>78282212
That other guy literally said show me the stats. Be mad at him for asking.

Name one thing KG could do on offense that Dirk couldnt do better.

Better passing, and put-backs that's it.

Dirk could drive to the hoop, do fade a ways in the post, drive from the post, shoot 3s, take passes going to the hoop, spread the floor, shoot jumpers, create points in isolation, and draw fouls all better than KG.

>>78281998
offensive foul
technical for taunting
multiple games ban for gangster signs
shot in the head by undercover cop in the stands for apparent gun carrying

>>78276546
*tips sombrero*

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I'd take horace grant over that texas faggot any day of the week

>>78282278
KG wasn't even a better passer. He had double the ASTs, but also double the TOVs as Dirk. Dirk rarely needed to pass because he had so many different ways he could score. You couldn't double team Dirk because he spreads the floor unlike KG who you could send a 2nd defender on, and he'd still have plenty of time to get back to his assignment.

Thinking KG is better than Dirk is the ultimate pleb opinion. Dirk is arguably better than Duncan too, but KG is nowhere near either of them.

>>78281951
KG barely beats him out on defense meanwhile Dirk completely blows him away on Offense. Overall Dirk is the better player.

>>78281868
>asking for stats then saying they mean nothing

You're clueless.

>>78282488
>Garnett
9x All Defence First team, 3x Second team, 1x DPOY
>Dirk
No Defensive selections

>>78282552
Dirk = NBA Finals MVP
KG = Got carried in the finals

No one is debating Garnett is the better defensive player but OVERALL Dirk is the better player

>>78282610
KG was robbed off FMVP. He also played along side better talent which meant that naturally his stats wouldn't look as good as a good player-bad team would

>>78282650
>KG was robbed of FMVP
no he wasn't he falls off in the playoffs that's why his playoff stats compared to Dirk are complete shit

>>78282610
Dirk was actually meh in the finals.

>>78282671
Well Dirk scores more points, because that's what he's expected to do. But when you have other stars on your team you're stats will always look worse than someone who doesn't.

>>78282552
>1x DPOY

Cucked by Duncan his entire career. Meanwhile, Dirk was pretty much the best offensive PF every single year in the 2000s.

KG wasn't as good as Duncan on defense or as good as Dirk on offense. He was a jack of all trades master of none forgettable player in the 2000s.

Dirk, Kobe, Duncan. Those are who define that era of the NBA. KG is a shit who gets overrated by people who never actually watched games then, and jack off to the box score numbers he put up back then.

>>78282699
No he really wasn't

>>78282705
lol moving the goalposts now aren't you?

>>78282736
>Cucked by Duncan his entire career.
How many DPOY did Duncan win?
>Dirk was pretty much the best offensive PF every single year in the 2000s.
In his prime he was putting up around 1 more PPG than Duncan while being worse at everything else
>Dirk, Kobe, Duncan.
Kobe is shit. He doesn't deserve to be compared to put next to Duncan, KG or Dirk.

>>78282705
casual fans like scoring, what can you do

>>78282699
What the fuck are you talking about? Dirk was great every game that Finals except the clincher where he struggled in the first half and the team carried him, but he showed up in the second half and the Heat got blown out.

You must be thinking of LeBron who didn't show up in the Finals.

>>78282847
>Game 1: 7 for 18
>Game 4: 6 for 19

>>78282705
Dirk would score more points in the playoffs AND do it more efficiently than KG.

KG had the same statistical inflation as Kevin Love until he played along-side other superstars, and his stats dropped like a rock.

>>78282813
Can't win without scoring kiddo. Try again when they start awarding points for blocks, steals and >muh defensive GRIT lmao

>>78282885
>the game where Dirk played with a 102 degree fever
>the game where dirk broke his finger

>>78282885
Had 27 points in game 1 and lead all players on both teams. Dirk was unarguably the best player on the court in the 2011 Finals, especially in crunch time.

>>78282898
That' because you have to give up the ball. The same thing happened to Ray Allen. Put Dirk alongside 2 all stars and the same would happen to him

>>78282736
>Forgettable player
(You)

>>78283100
He absolutely is forgettable. Just like Nash, Pau, and Wade. People only ever talk about him in comparison to Dirk or Duncan. Nobody threw a parade for his retirement. He left hardly an imprint on the league, and gets retroactively overrated.

Dirk = better scorer
KG = better overall player
There, it's that easy.

>>78283022
Dirk tended to put on better numbers on teams where had more support. He was always consistently good, just like LeBron, just like Duncan.

KG showed how completely unspecial he was next to other great players.

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>>78283188
>like Nash, Pau and Wade

>>78283260
Dirk never played with that kind of support. The only "superstars" he played with was Nash (before his prime) and Kidd (way out of his prime). Duncan never played with another allstar like that as well, with David Robinson being out of his prime and Kawhi being out of Duncans prime

>>78283252
Not it isn't you dipshit. Not even gonna bother with your retarded post, read the thread because that dumb argument has been addressed several times.

>>78283188
Too obvious now 2/10 for making me reply

>>78283277
Look at Bosh and K-love's numbers with LeBron. They put up big numbers in a small pond before that.

Nash after leaving Dirk exploded statistically, but could never win anything without him. True greats overshadow lesser greats when they're on the same team, and KG with PP and Allen never established himself as THE GUY on that team and his numbers went way down.

>>78283188
Maybe they're forgettable because it's obvious you never watched them

>>78283336
I don't see your point yet. Are you saying that if Dirk had went to the Celtics or played alongside LeBron his numbers would be the same?

>>78283342
Non top 20 players all time are forgettable. The NBA HoF should have better standards like the Baseball HoF.

>>78283349
I can tell you for certain if Dirk played with Paul and Allen, his numbers wouldn't have fallen off. Dirk would at least be a #2 on any of LeBron's teams.

>>78283418
You're a moron. Of course they would change. He was the number 1 guy, playing along side LeBron would force him to take less shots which means score less points

>>78283418
The fuck? Celtics won because of their defense with was mainly KGs doing. They completely collapsed without him go check out the on/off splits. So scoring isn't really relevant. KG was the MVP of that team everytime he stepped on the court.

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>>78276546

#1 easily