The GOAT

>inb4 Pippenbabby and Rodmanbabby

>>76270638
Ewing was better

that's not Robert Horry

>>76270638

Kareem and Wilt were both better. Don't fall for the nike hype

>>76270702
Horry isn't even top 10

>>76270713
Has more rings

>>76270724
Is Bill Russel the GOAT then?

>>76270702
who

>jackson babby
>pippenbabby
>Rodmanbabby

>>76270736
Yup

>>76270736
he unironically might be

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>not having a ring for each finger on both hands
that's so cute

>Tfw there are kids who actually believe that Russel was better than Wilt

>>76270820
>being 10 inches taller and 10 shades darker than anyone in the league

>>76270949
>not gitting gud
smhtbqhwyfam

>>76270638
>won against aids magic on his last legs
>won agains drexler (lol)
>won against barkley feat dan fucking majerle (lol)
>evaded hakeem
>evaded hakeem
>got BTFO by shaq and penny (LOL)
>won against payton and kemp
>won against stockton malone and ostertag
>won against stockton malone and brought name bryon to the spotlight

also

>got btfo by pistons THREE times in a row
>pippen alone showed no drop in bulls's win average while jordan was failing at baseball but got refballed against the knicks
>won all of his titles in the nineties, the weakest SG era in last 30 years

duncan, lebron, hakeem and shaq, all better.

>>76271062
didnt the bulls sweep the magic when they met in the playoffs

>>76271106
that was when they got rodman, next year

>>76270891
If anyone is a child, it's those who believe Wilt was better than Russell.
>m-m-muh stats

>>76270638
>Did the same dunks for 3 straight contests and didnt win until it was in his home town
>Couldn't get past the Pistons until Stern broke up the league
>Couldn't become a dynasty until Magic got AIDS and Bird broke his back
>Couldn't compete with Ewing and a bunch of CBA players so he had his agent make Xavier McDaniels sign with Boston
>Couldn't compete with Ewing and a bunch of CBA players so he had his coach send out JoJo English to get everyone suspended in a brawl
>Couldn't beat a Monstars team with Shawn Bradley and Muggsy Bogues without taking PEDs
>Couldn't 4Peat against a watered down league of nobodies because he'd rather get his father killed by gambling
>Got dunked on by a grocery store bag boy
>Ugly sneakers
>Wears sport jackets with ripped jeans and thinks it's high fashion
>Tried to dunk on a solo breakaway on Christmas in front of a national audience in the mecca of sports and rimmed it all the way back to mid court
>Needed phantom calls all year to maintain his scoring average during all those games shooting 5-25 from the field.
>The League tried moving in the 3pt line for him, it didn't work.
>The league removed hand checking because Derrick Harper was giving him problems
>Needed the greatest rebounder of all time, the greatest 3 pt shooter of all time, and the Lebron James of his era to get a second 3peat
>Bald
>Pushed off to beat the lowly Jazz
>Struggled to beat Charles Barkley and a bunch of nobodies in Phoenix
>Got outplayed by everyone on the Dream Team including Magic with AIDS, Broken Bird, and Barkley

>>76271062
>Won against Drexlar

Why do people short change those Blazer teams? They made it to 2 NBA finals. Unfortunately they ran into the Bad Boy Pistons and Jordan's Bulls, two of the best teams in league history.

>>76271178
Wtf I hate Jordan now

>>76271062
>evaded Hakeem

You mean the same guy that took 7 games to beat the Knicks? The same team that needed 7 games to beat the Bulls without Jordan? Hakeem would have zero titles if Jordan didn't retire.

>bbbut Jordan had a good team

It's almost as if basketball is a team sport!

>>76271347
People keep forgetting their first 3peat team. With Pippen who was just starting to develop and their third best player was Horace Grant.
Grant was a solid player, sure as fuck not a Hall of Fame caliber player. In Jordan's 14 year career be played with 2 Hall of Fame caliber guys in Pippen and Rodman (for 3 years only).
LeBron meanwhile has played with ...
>Wade
lock Hall of Fame.
>Bosh
Hall of Fame
>Ray Allen
Hall of Fame
>Shaq
Was old but so was Rodman when Jordan played with him.

>Irving
Is on his way if his play keeps up like this.

So what is this bullshit that Lebron never played with anyone? Be has played with more talent than Jordan over the same amount of years.

>>76270638
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPn1J07F10E

tl;dw
Jordan's unquestioned 'GOATness' was the result of a marketing ploy, all arguments otherwise are arbitrary and the goal posts are constantly moved to make him look like he's the best.

>>76271300
nigger they had drexler, porter and cliff robinson. it was a weak era. only two good teams of the nineties are hakeem and drexler's rockets and bulls trio.

i mean you literally had dominant teams like utah jazz with two hall of famers, hornacek and a literal D-league level roster around them.

>>76271423
nigger did you ever watch rodman play for the bulls

did you fucking compare bulls rodman, who could clamp down prime shaq to cleveland shaq?

>>76271503
Rodman was 36 when he joined the Bulls. Still solid, but that wasn't prime Rodman.

>>76271469
>i mean you literally had dominant teams like utah jazz with two hall of famers, hornacek and a literal D-league level roster around them.
And if you look at Stockton's stats, you would wonder why the fuck he was even considered a HOFer. He just passed to ball the Malone in the post and took a nap.

>>76271503
Nigger did you forget MJ took a team consisting of Pip and 10 bums and fucking WAXED Magic's Lakers 7 YEARS before Rodman was a Bull?

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>>76271469
Amazing how he beat so many 50 win teams when there was no talent in the 90's. Knicks, Pacers, Cavs and the young Hornets were all teams the Bulls went through every year. Meanwhile Lebron made it to 7 finals in a row beating no one.
The league is weaker Now, because there is literally only 2 teams that are legit. Thanks to this new super team trend, shit will probably be like this for several more years.

>>76271543
>top 3 in assist
>top 3 in steals
>put up 17 points per game


How wasn't he a Hall of fame tier player? He was better than Steve fucking Nash, a 2 time mvp and future HOF player.

>>76271607
>Amazing how he beat so many 50 win teams when there was no talent in the 90's. Knicks, Pacers, Cavs and the young Hornets were all teams the Bulls went through every year.
It's called expansion, ya moron.

The Heat, The Magic, Twolves, the Raptors, etc had no business being in the league and they still dont. The league might actually be interesting if they contract 8-12 teams.

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>>76271178

>being this retarded

>>76271646
And today you have tanking. You do know the top 4 worst teams in NBA history have all occurred within the past 8 years. Those expansion teams were better than the 76ers, Bobcats, Lakers etc over the past few years. And how did expansion teams effect who Jordan best in the fucking playoffs?

>>76271637
80% of those assists were to Malone and he did all the work.
Steals, yay, game changing stat, right there!
17 points a game? Like I said, why is he in the Hall of Fame again?

and being better than another overrated piece of garbage doesnt mean a thing. Players dont go in because of the transitive property. Nash won an MVP as a team award because they went from garbage to a high seed. That's on the idiot voters. MVP has always been a joke in the NBA.

>>76271607
that knicks team was only good because the rules allowed extremely physical play, they had enforcers and nothing else + ewing is the fakest HOFer.

league is not weaker now, but you have a legit superteam and lebron vehicle stomping the competition.

>>76271543
i assume you never watched stockton play. he would eat chris paul alive.

>>76271533
yes he was, bulls rodman was better than pistons rodman. he was the mvp against seattle and stopped malone in both finals.

>>76271589
>magic's lakers

that lakers team had divac as their second best player, magic was on his last legs, just horribad team overall.

as i said, it was a weak, weak league after bird's back got shot up until hakeem's rockets showed up.

>>76271672
>And how did expansion teams effect who Jordan best in the fucking playoffs?
It doesn't you pinhead. Some one is questioning how talentless teams can have 50 wins, when all they needed was one good player, a decent sidekick, and a bunch of journeyman who lacked basic coordination. The answer - all those damn expansion on top of the already bad teams that already existed like the Mavs, the Kings, the Nuggets, etc.

the league knew this, which is why the first round was only 5 games because it was such a waste of time.

>>76271705
90-91 Magic was only 31, went for 20 and 12 and was second in MVP voting. Lakers won 58 games and went 11-3 to get to the Finals. They were anything but bad.

If you weren't an underage faggot you would remember literally no one was picking the Bulls in that series.

>>76271793
>They were anything but bad.
Yeah, not bad for a team who's best player had a fucking deadly virus that ended his career.

>>76271793
>magic's last year
>worthy's corpse's last year

>jordan is the mvp
>bulls have best record in the league
>blowout much stronger east teams on their way to the finals

but entertain me and tell me who (except yourself) picked lakers as favourites there

>>76270638

There was never any doubt.

The debate is merely for who is #2 (Kobr).

LeBron is still top 5.

>>76271793
>magic last year with aids
>oldtime lakers
>no based kareem

Fuck right off

>>76271749
But we are ignoring Lebron beating up on the Bobcats, 6ers, Knicks etc for the past decade? Teams that were worst than those 90 expansion teams.

>>76271910
Kareem was shit his final year with the Lakers. Plus he was like 42 years old. Did you think he would have helped against Jordan's Bulls?

>>76270638
B-but he had hofer Luc Longley and BJ Armstrong.

>>76271793

>Bryron Scott was in his last leg.
>Worthy was on his last leg.
>Magic had an incurable disease and had to carry the team....Rodman and Pippen manhandled him.
>Sam Perkins was the 2nd best option.

It was a legit passing of the guard. Slow, half court ball team that was designed to play against the Pistons vs. an upstart physical, fast, athletic team that had more in the tank.

>>76271880
Bulls were vegas dogs and virtually all national media had the Lakers. The narrative at that point was still that Jordan was a ballhog and not a winner and they would not be able to overcome Magic's team-first playmaking.

>>76271178
>>76271062

How come no one ever mentions the facts that Jordan used to literally beat the shit out of his own teammates in the locker room, because he knew no one could touch him because he was "the franchise".

Speaking of "the franchise", the whole idea of one player being bigger than the team and bigger than game was created by Stern and Jordan and David Falk.
And why do people still pretend that Jordan "decided" to go play baseball, when we all know he was suspended over his gambling addiction?
Speaking of gambling and organized crime and Michael Jordan and refusing to pay his debts to organized crime gangs, whatever happened to Jordan's father?

>>76271958
designed to play the pistons?

>>76271916
I'm not comparing eras. Im just saying Jordan's era was absolute dog shit.

This team was a top threat to win the West ever year - >>http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1996.html

Gary "I can't score over 20, but I can play D, somewhat" Payton and a guy who could dunk. That was a beast team during Jordan's "dominance"

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>>76271958
Yes I'm aware of how it played out. At the time the general consensus was that Jordan was not capable of leading a team over the top.

Remember this was the team MJ willed to greatness. People had not fully bought in on Jordan at that point.

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>>76271958
>Rodman

He wasn't on the Bulls then. He didn't join the Bulls until 7 years later. Amazing how people think Jordan played with Rodman his entire career.

>>76271975

Lakers vs. Pistons was the previous year's final.

I think I mistakenly stated that Rodman was on the Bulls....he was still with the bad boys back then, my bad.

>>76271989
>>76271993


You two should hook up IRL.

>>76270638
There was never doubt

Lelbron BTFO

>>76271970
>whatever happened to Jordan's father?

>Jordan owed a huge debt
>Gamblers approached him to throw the finals to square the debt
>Would rather win and let his father die.
>Body was identified by dental records.

>>76271979
Prime Kemp was the 3rd best PF in the NBA behind Barkley and Malone. And Payton averaged 20 per game most of his career and was a lock down defender. The fuck are you talking about?

>>76272009
Go to bed LaBrawn

>>76272018
Yes, he locked down all those expansion roster players. Couldn't do it when it mattered. Saying Kemp was the 3rd best PF is only proving my point with how bad the league was.

>76271989
>this was the team MJ willed to greatness

>willed

>>>76271970
>Jordan used to literally beat the shit out of his own teammates in the locker room

>>76271178
>I'm from Cleveland:the post

>>76271543
I wish I was this much of a millenials.

>>76272275
I'm sorry you were dumb enough to believe what ESPN and the announcers told you. Here's another red pill. Reggie Miller was garbage too.

>>76271958
Is this guy autistic? He thought Rodman was on the Bulls in '91? You are fucking retarded.

>>76271696
Clearly you think hall of fame is only reserved for superstars.

>>76270665
>babby

you have to go back, seriously - go back

>>76271970
>How come no one ever mentions the facts that Jordan used to literally beat the shit out of his own teammates in the locker room, because he knew no one could touch him because he was "the franchise".

Because not everyone is a beta-faggot like you and Kwame Brown. If you can't handle the drill - get the fuck out. Robert Parish and Steve Kerr fought back and MJ respected them for that. You'd probably cry like a little bitch you are.

>>76270736
Depends on what your criteria is.

If you're talking most dominant in their era, then yeah he is. He shut down the greatest scorer in NBA history, Wilt, in his prime and has the most rings.

If you're talking best physically, LeBron is probably the best. He's just really weak mentally, especially early in his career.

Best overall is still MJ

>>76272569
Unironically this. Anyone who's actually played sports (.0001% of spuhhh) know you fight all the fucking time w your team mates. It's a bunch of alphas trying to make their mark not a goddamn drum circle.

>>76272652
no you don't

everyone hated me and tried to hurt me in scrimmages but my teammates never fought each other

>>76271889
Jordan > Kareem > Kobe > Wilt > Shaq > Durant > Lebron

>>76273115
Faker fans are literally the worst.

>>76270638
Never, I used to really like lebron cause he played for my favorite team (Miami Heat) but crying over some bullshit on his fence that he probably hired someone to spray on it made me lose all respect for him entirely. The GOAT should never give a fuck

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>I rate Kareem despite never watching a single game of his

>>76271979
>6 expansion teams added during Jordans prime
>obviously little population growth in that time
>international players still a meme

Really hard to get it through 30 something's that the 90s was the most diluted era of basketball in modern history

>>76273115
You're missing Hakeem, millennial scumbag.

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>>76270638
>Any doubt?

>>76273220
The funny thing is, I'm a 30 something, and I'm not advocating for LeBron. I just KNOW Jordan is an overrated scumbag. He would have been another Dr. J if he played only 10 years earlier before the league became a total joke, which it still is today. I'm not taking any numbers seriously until their is major contraction.

>>76273224
Forget Bill Russell vs. Wilt. The dream banished Ewing, David Robinson and Alonzo Mourning to the shadow realm every time they played.

>>76273263
Undersized Hakeem faking it at the 5 spot was outplayed by actual centers. Sam Cassell carried the Rockets to their rings, not Hakeem.

>>76273283
and the GOAT Big Shot Horry.

>>76273290
This, too. Those Rockets teams were extremely good, even if people forget them because they weren't "superstars" by today's manufactured standards.

>>76273261
scumbag yeah, overrated no

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>>76271423
Stephen A Smith is the product of the Lebron delusion. His excuses have caused the narrative to reach critical mass. Even this current Cavs team is built solid by any standards.

But instead of facing the facts, the narrative is attempting to be shifted to the fact Durant joined the Warriors. Warriors only had 1 pure scorer, Cavs been having 2 pure scorers. But the king excuse maker for 'the king' is trying to get people to avoid the fact that despite how good James is, despite he has a great team behind him, the Warriors just play better ball.

>>76273319
>the Warriors just play better ball.
atm you could put just about anyone in their system and they'll shine right now

>>76272620
He shut Wilt down? No, Wilt still had amazing stats and far better than Russell in matchups. Russell had a super team.

>>76273296
Hakeem was a humble african prince, he'd be the most popular player in the NBA in 2017

>>76271423
Allen and especially Shaq are bullshit to put here. You are reaching like a motherfucker with that shit. Love deserves to be named over them by a mile.

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>>76270949
>le there were no other dominant players meme
>pushing the jordan is goat meme when he only beat the corpses of bird, magic, and isiah

>>76271970
>when we all know he was suspended over his gambling addiction?
LMAOOOO bill simmons pls

>>76272039
>nickname is literally ''the glove''
>"Eeeeeh I don't think he was good at defense xD"

>>76273406
with shaq you have a point

allen was a legit specialist at that point though

>>76273382
>muh stats
russel won almost every time, fuck off westbrooktard

>>76271423
what a retarded ass point, did he play with those guys at the same time?

are you stupid or what?

>ray allen
>shaq
lmao ok your stupid nevermind

>>76273470
>'hit threes in limited minutes' specialist, woah
he was a fuckin role player, listing him in that and with hall of famer attached is dishonest as fuck, that lucky three that every lebron hater uses is in a game where he didn't do shit the rest of it, which was common with him even the tail end of the celtics.

>>76273543
He didn't shut him down clown

>russel won almost every time
Yea, like I said his team was stacked, way better than Wilt's. Wilt vs Bill is the exact proof that team always Trumps best player.

>>76273406
Ray Allen saved my shitty team in the finals and Lebron's "legacy"

>>76274728
>t. joy
post bosom

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>>76274783
What is this unintelligible bullshit?

>>76270638
Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the greatest of all time.
Despite being a dumb Muslim

Back in MJ era, wasn't it forbidden to defend zones? If Lebron could force 1v1, wouldn't he have an easy time freighting to the basket?

>>76273424
Magic and Isiah are barely older than Jordan

Ffs, people are still onto this? Jesus, when you're great - you're great, that's it, you can play in any era and under any rules, why are such petty faggots? These guys are among the greatest ever, they'd adjust easily. If Wilt had played during peak Shaq era when they let him get away with 10 offensive fouls per game, he'd probably have averaged 60 ppg. If Jordan had played in the post-handcheck era, he'd probably average 35 ppg. LeBron is a fucking tank and he'd fit pretty nifty into the 80s and 90s.

>>76277724
magic had fuckin aids and isiah had glass knees, that being said MJ is goat

>>76273185
the entire goal of basketball is
1) be tall
2) score points
7 feet and most points in history

>>76274728
Robert Horry tier you absolute faggot. A game isn't decided by just the last shot. He did nothing else that game, and it was also the headband game. LeBron brought them back when they were down big.

>>76277724
carmelo and cp3 are in lebron shape too right? idiota

>>76280125
If Bosh didn't rebound Lebron's brick and get the ball to Ray Allen who made the shot while having a hand in his face, I wouldn't have gotten to see a second championship from my favorite team with the big 3

>>76271178
topkek

Kareem exists

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>>76281958

>>76282014
>I-it's not fair, he was too tall

>>76270638

that's not oscar robertson

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>>76270638
>The GOAT
First off, I will say that yes, MJ is the greatest basketball player the world has ever seen.

BUT... I'm sick and fucking tired of retards and kids spewing this nike marketing bullshit when they've never even seen him play. They just blindly parrot the common consensus and perpetuate this personality cult by fighting keyboard wars about rings and stats.

Fact is: MJ was labeled the GOAT long before he even had a championship, by both the fans and his competition. Why? Because he was the most unreal player the world had ever seen. His main feat was his surreal air time and mid-air ball handling. (His defenders could take off after him and would reconnect to the ground when he would STILL be in the air) Then his obsessive will to win and the ability to strike fear into an entire elite team with his surreal actions, incredible basketball IQ and with the rate he hit game winning shots. All of this in a league full of thug niggers who slammed him to the ground when he drove to the rim.

Rings and stats just were things that inevitably had to come with it. One day the people who actually saw him play will be old, careless or dead and nobody will remember WHY he was the greatest.

>>76284018
>Fact is: MJ was labeled the GOAT long before he even had a championship

Nope. Sorry bro, kill yourself.

>>76284024
>Magic
>Bird
>Isiah
>anyone from the dream team
>literally anyone who owned a TV
Yeah they must have been smoking back then. This Jordan guy looked like a hack from the start.

>>76281243
If literally everything that happened preceding that play didn't happen they would never have that play. This is the lamest way to discredit him.

>>76281243
>oy vey goy, lebron didnt lead the heat from a 10 point deficit up to that point where ray closed the deal
>oy vey goy, lebron didnt score the three and block then score the freethrow, kyrie carried him
>buy my sneakers goy

>>76271646
Fuck you the heat and Magic had some pretty decent teams in the 90

>>76271793
Sorry I don't remember who was picking who in the 91 finals I'm not 55 years old

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>>76271672
>4 worst teams in NBA history have all occurred within the past 8 years.
I really hate 90s fags, and I'm one of them. You just blindly dismiss everything as "stupid millenials" and don't cite any stats to prove your claims, just blindly defend the era off rose-tinted memory, and cling to false memes as proof the era was better. In your case you completely pull a false claim out if your ass.

There's your worst teams, heavily dominated during the 88-95-96 expansion era, and Jordan's prime. That's pretty indicative the league was overexpanded. Its better now because they have only added a couple teams in 20 yrs while domestic population growth has grown a lot, a legit international pool has opened up, and more money has incentivized a bigger pool of talent to draw from.

I grew up in the 90s, I remember it all, it was clearly an inferior product to today's game. I doubt many of you can pull up a 90s game on YouTube without dozing off within 30 minutes. It's a joke compared to today.

>>76271749
It does dilute it though. If there's only 50 good players to draw from and there's 20 teams vs 27, even some off the worst teams will draw at least a couple people off teams that would be on contenders otherwise.

But yeah, the bigger reason is it pads the good teams records and makes them look better than they were and as elite competition when they weren't. There wasn't a single consistent team that challenged Jordan during his run. Plenty of teams popped up for a year or 2. But he had 5 different opponents in his finals, then somebody he never played won while he was gone, then your told the Knicks were elite, then the fucking pacers lol. The constant turnover of challangers is indicative of mediocrity in the league, not it being stacked. A fucking 8 seed won the east the year after he won his sixth.

Wilt was so dominant, they changed the rules to slow him down.
MJ was so popular, they changed the rules to make him more dominant.

Just the facts

>>76287277
Casting pearls before swine

>>76287277
missing the 10 win 2016 6ers, the 12 win 2010 nets, and in the list of 15 win teams, the t-wolves and the bucks, not on either side just pointing it out.
>>76287393
>Spursx3
>Warriorsx3
>mavs
>Thunder
you play enough you wind up playing different guys. fuck look at the nfl, Brady has played 6 teams in seven super bowls, no one is arguning his goatness.

>>76287553
Fair enough, that's what I get for citing espn lol.

But I would counter that the west is the far superior conference now, and it was almost the opposite in Jordan's day, and 4 opponents in 7 vs. 5 in 6 might sound like a petty difference, but it's not.

>>76287673
*4 in 8

>After the Bulls won their third championship, the NBA launched an investigation into Jordan's gambling problems to check whether he had violated any league rules. Then, four months later Jordan stunned the world by suddenly retiring from professional basketball.

At the press conference when he was asked if he would ever return he said, " Five years down the road, if the urge comes back, if the Bulls will have me, if David Stern lets me back in the league, I may come back."

>those last 13 words...

Alot of MJ hype was Nike merchandising. Imagine how completely torn apart MJs reputation would be if twitter and camera phones existed. Hookers errywhere. Nike drops the air Jordan campaign(which only happened because bo got hurt and they had to scrap the bo knows campaign)

Guy couldn't hit a 3 for shit. Only season he hit with any consistency was the year the year they actually move the 3 point line up 6 inches. He was a Kobe during an era where the rules allowed for that type of play to dominate a game.

>>76287447
Damn even as a Jordanfag that really fires the neurons(also a statfag so I love Wilt). Where you steal that from.

>>76270638
Lebron is objectively the greatest of all time
Millennials just don't want to admit it because of le untouchable sneaker man who they never even saw play

>>76287869
what shit arguments, I feel embarassed for you

>>76288226
>>76287447
Also, I'll add as a huge appreciater of the most underappreciated player of all time, he was VERY unliked. Not that it was all undeserved but people didn't want him to win. I think he is very very similar to LeBron in a lot of respects.

>>76288333
But one difference is even while LeBron was hated he was still mostly hailed by the press and league.

>>76288274
>Millennials are the Jordanfags
>not the Boomers and Xers
Nice try, grampa.

>>76288274
Get the fuck outta here. LeBron sucks big time. Talk about exploiting bad competition (where all the big men think they are shooting guards) and being a vile disgusting meaingless stat padder in a league that allows Westbrook to average a triple double. Jordan was that, and leaned on Pippen to do all the dirty work, but at least he didn't disappear when it counted. Imagine thinking the greatest player of all time can't score double digits in every playoff game LOL

Speaking of Pippen, he's clearly better than LeBron. He just had to take a back seat to the biggest chucker of all time. If he didn't, he had everything LeBron has, and more. That's how low on the totem pole Lebron is. But yeah, keep sucking his dick over fugazi stats and ESPN and ad hype you clown.

>>76284018
>nobody will remember WHY he was the greatest.
thankfully you can find most of his matches online I think