>muh non-league

>we will invest

aka we will steal

the thieving scapegraces

>>76243921
That's disgusting
That's even more communist than our sports

>>76243937
>reddit spacing
you have to go back la

What's the issue? That 5% would otherwise just line some rich fucker's pockets, usually someone that doesn't give a shit about football at all. Labour have a number of other policies that are more questionable.

>>76243958
What gives them the legal authority to do this?
And second, sports are not important enough for this shit to take place

>>76243979

Would rather we spent the money on football than fucking horse dancing like we do now.

>>76243958
Yeah man, once we hit 5% we can make it 10% then 20% then 50%.

Fuck it, 80% of Premiership TV revenue can go to developing the WSL

>>76244026
>muh slippery slope
Great argument

what is grassroot football?

is it like amateur football for a bunch of middle-age fatties? or youth development (responsibility of clubs and schools imo)?

Taxation is theft my dudes.

Now, I think is non league clubs and towns came together to ask for donations from the big clubs, I'm sure more often than not they would be willing to donate.

Don't need government to play football.

>>76244050

>The charity fallacy

Bet you love food banks too.

>>76244041
Slipperly slope is legit mate
Look at the LGBT community
First we hated gays then we accepted it.
Then we hated trannys and now we accept it
Now we are in the stage of accepting made up bollocks genders.

File: max-stirner.jpg (17KB, 170x200px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 170x200px

>>76244070
>caring what other people do or think

>>76244047

Both really but I'm sure most of it will go to youth teams.

I'm pretty Jeremy is just talking nonsense to get football fans on his side, the Government already gives funding to the FA to develop grassroots football that is already more than 5% of the TV money, and Premier League clubs are very good when it comes to engaging with youth teams, donating to schools etc.

The only problem we have is are coaches are shit, and that's an issue you can't throw money at to fix.

>>76244067
Nobody loves food banks. They're just the reality of a financial crash. The other option would have been the whole system crumbling down which only NEET shut ins want since they don't have lives anyway

>>76244041
>muh "slippery slope fallacy" fallacy
Apply yourself

>>76244103
You should really stop all funding of sports

>>76244103
Yeah he is sucking up to football fans.
As soon as Arsenal won the FA Cup he started sucking Arsene's dick and tried to draw comparisons between him and Arsene.

Almost as bad as Aston West Ham Villa

>>76244067
I'm for people voluntarily interacting with each other without government interference.

>>76244135

I don't mind funding school/youth sport and public sport areas like 5-a-side pitches or whatever, if we can get more people into sport and lower obesity levels it will save a shit ton more with less fatties going to the hospital from heart attacks.

>>76244111

Maybe, just maybe, the alternative is to pay people enough to afford basic necessities?

Workhouses could be justified in a similar way. As a society we're far beyond letting people starve.

>>76244157

I'm not, and I comfortably earn enough to not need the government's help.

>>76243979
>What gives them the legal authority to do this?
Being the government

>>76244050
The reason rich people are rich sure isn't by giving money out to anyone who asks

>>76244180
Spending money that doesnt exist was what got us into this situation in the first place. Do you even understand how we reached this stage or are you just parroting "muh austerity" because Corbyn told you to?

>>76244201
>Spending money that doesnt exist
But it does exist, or are you just parroting views of labour that you've read in the Daily Mail?

>>76244180
Using food banks is a result of poor life choices
Got knocked up at 15 by Deano (who you never saw again)?
Didnt bother for GCSEs?
Can't budget properly?
Addicted to drugs/booze/fags?
Use food banks

>>76243921
Non league isn't grassroots you complete muppet. Grassroot is coaching equipment facilities etc for kids basically.

Grassroots is the entry point to the game.

>>76243940
OP misrepresented what grassroots means, that money wouldn't go to pro or even semi pro clubs it would go to helping kids do physical activity

>>76244227
just another day in the life of the classcuck

>>76244227
I see the Dacre spin is strong, it's the same mentality that causes people to view the extreme minority of benefits "scroungers" as the vast majority.

Same with food banks. Families and people in work should not have to rely on them and it's disgusting that the problem has only gotten worse.

how can any white Brit vote for Labour? Like, you just got blown up by an Arab Muslim, why do you want politicians who turn a blind eye to that sort of thing?

>>76244201

Can't raise taxes? Can't, shock, pursue tax avoiders for the billions they keep offshore?

There's two ways to get money. I'd pay an extra penny to the pound, happily.

>>76244227

What if you work a full time job and still can't put food on the table? That's the reality of a significant number of people, is that OK?

>>76244268
Instead vote for the woman who knew he existed and did nothing?

>>76244219
When prices go up, the rich start moving their money to escape the burdensome tax, jobs start to dry up and the high earning poor/low earning middle class get trapped by taxes Labour would have to start borrowing to keep the whole system going i.e. money that doesnt exist. This is what happened last time and we're only now just paying the cost of that.

>>76243921
>We are going to give as much money away as we can while inviting every shitskin on Earth so we can give our country away as well
I'm almost tempted to vote for these cunts (although they'll never win again) just so the shit would hit the fan years earlier than it will with Sharia May in charge.

>>76244298
>the rich start moving their money to escape the burdensome tax

They would do that anyway. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to appease these people.

>This is what happened last time and we're only now just paying the cost of that

I'm pretty sure a global recession happened.

>>76244268
The British parliament doesn't work in the same way the US presidency works. Voting against conservatives isn't necessarily to get them out of power but rather to reduce their powers. The conservative government wanted to create a huge majority in parliament which would mean their prime minisiter could push through policy a lot easier with almost no opposition. Considering that during the brexit process we will need to re address our laws on human rights, employment rights etc and also considering she wants to reduce our privacy and freedom online that would be a good thing.

As an American I would have thought you would vote for freedom and vote for liberty? Corbyn can't become PM unless May completely does a slippy G. What we want from Corbyn is to cut her majority and hold her accountable when she trys to create policy and law.

>>76244284
>Arresting someone who hasnt committed a crime
I thought Labour hated facism but ok

>>76244274
If you work a full time job and cant put food in the table then there is somewhere in your life you are making a mistake or have made a mistake. I'm a student with a flat working for minimum wage and I have no issues paying bills, putting food on the table and having substantial disposable income while also using a savings account. Its easy as fuck.

>>76244298
>the rich start moving their money to escape the burdensome tax,
That already happens, and the governement don't care because half of them are doing it aswell

>we're only now just paying the cost of that.
This the deficit that we were meant to have paid off 2 years ago according to cameron's maths?

>>76244315
Take the safe road and vote for the Purple tories if you're being strategic.

>>76244298

Fallacy, really, that assumes businesses would forego one of the richest countries with huge amounts of consumer spending power to save an additional 1-3% tax.

Please realise that the vast majority of these tax rises would be on what businesses have to pay, and businesses won't abandon the UK market. See: Sweden, Denmark, Germany, France.

>>76244338

Ah, so people should go back in time and fix their mistakes, gotcha.

As an aside, when all the migrant labour dries up, how are all the English people taking these jobs going to subsist on an even lower average wage? Guess they're just feckless, sad!

>>76244314
The global recession happened because when it became impossible for countries to keep on borrowing at ridiculous rates they eased up the private lending system so that individuals could borrow at a ridiculous rate. They replaced public debt with private debt i.e. more money that didn't exist.

>We shouldn't appease the rich
You mean the people who are paying for all these policies? You mean the people creating jobs and producing services that all affect the economy? I notice you conveniently ignore the rest of that section.

>>76244304
Cringe

>>76244338
Who'd have thought a single student has less outgoings than a family of 4

>>76244367
>The global recession happened because when it became impossible for countries to keep on borrowing at ridiculous rates they eased up the private lending system so that individuals could borrow at a ridiculous rate. They replaced public debt with private debt i.e. more money that didn't exist.

It literally didn't. The recession happened because private companies couldn't afford the losses incurred from the sub-prime mortgage market, and had to be bailed out by governments who then held the liabilities as public debt.

The recession was a huge collapse in stable markets and, therefore, market confidence.

>>76244339
No, thats the debt our country is under, the debt huge swathes of private individuals are under, and the fact that owning a home or enjoying any of the benefits those in the past enjoyed is near impossible for anyone under 30.

>>76244365
>Muh sweden
There are food banks in all those countries.

They should work to make up for those mistakes. If they're unqualified, go get a qualification. If they're working a low paying job, apply for a higher paying job and work hard enough to get it. If they're not being frugal with money then start doing it. People who did stupid shit shouldn't be let off the hook at the expense of people who put in the graft. There should be minimal support to help them out, sure, but it has to come from them.

>>76244343
>implying we even have a representative in my borough

That being said I'll vote labour because thats the leading party in my area. If you live in an area where lib dems are torys biggest rivals then you vote lib dem, if its green then vote green etc

Thats the only safe road. Torys have enough strong holds right now they will hold onto the leadership but will lose seats which is the ideal situation right now

>>76244367

>Bankers destroy the worlds economy buying up debt they can't afford from large property companies selling mortgages to anyone who asks.
>Get bailed out by governments at the tune of hundreds of billions
>huurrr it's public services and dole scroungers that caused this

ah yes, those rich people sure are the ones contributing to our society when they move all their money to tax havens regardless of tax rates.

>>76244369
You shouldn't be a family of 4 if you can't afford to be a family of 4, thats my point.

>>76244402
The subprime mortgages are exactly what I was referring to. This is obvious if you actually read my post.

>>76244417
What if you live in an area where labour and conservative are literally neck-and-neck

>>76244420
I never said that. I said its the philosophy of "borrow to pay for nice shit now" that caused it. The bankers are just as much to blame but they were playing by the rules that the state set for them.

>>76244427
Labour, like I said there enough Tory seats where no one will touch them that Labour taking marginal seats is ok

>This genuinely engaging debate will get deleted but big baller shill threads will stay up

>>76244422

>Be doing just fine with a family of 4
>Worlds economy collapses because of rich people gambling on our mortgages and pensions
>Get laid off from work
>All jobs now have shit pay
>Price of everything goes up
>Have to resort to food banks

S-stop making bad life decisions goy!

>>76244417
Labour needs to be killed off completely otherwise the people that vote Tory just to keep out Labour, will keep voting Tory. Bite the pillow and vote Conservative this time.

>>76244405
>If they're working a low paying job, apply for a higher paying job and work hard enough to get it
You're assuming we live in a meritocracy.

>>76244427
ABC's of voting, anybody but conservative.

>>76244458
>A literal pol thread doesn't turn into shit flinging
I'm as shocked as the next poster

>>76244466
It also assumes that the higher paying job want to hire you every time or that everytime one gets taken up, that is one less person to apply for the next one

>>76244459
>Still be in that shitty low paid job a decade after the crash

This hypothetical family were either not saving, had it all in a subprime mortgage, or were relying on credit (or a combination). They're probably not frugal with their expenses and were never particularly well educated or skilled since they were unable to get promoted or move to a job that pays a basic level of living (even though any job can if you're frugal enough).

>>76244464
>this time

This is the fucking worst time to vote Tory. Give them a majority and we lose freedom

>>76244466
Ability to network is of just as much merit as basic skill. Also unless you're trying to get into £50k+ jobs then yes it mostly is a meritocracy.

>>76244483
>even though any job can if you're frugal enough
>cuts are the way to make your life better
You working for the conservatives?

>>76244464
I think that's what people tried back in 2015 when Millband was in charge of labour

>>76244495
I voted Remain and weakening our nations negotiating stance is more likely to kill our freedom than 5 years of shitty conservative social policy. Labour needs to get rid of Corbyn and start presenting a credible opposition.

>>76243940
nigga shut your mouth before something even more stupid starts coming out.

>>76244483

Welcome to reality, not everybody is university educated, some people have to go out and graft for their money, they shouldn't be the ones punished for it whilst the people caused the mess get let off and compensated for their mistakes.

>>76244521
Not sure tory is that strong of a negotiating stance. 'no deal is better than a bad deal' makes no sense whats so ever.

>>76244521
>weakening our nations negotiating stance is more likely to kill our freedom

I don't understand this argument, May called the election expecting a landslide and a mandate. Why would the EU care about how big a majority May has (if she even wins now)?

>>76244519
Do you live outwith your means? This is a fundamental of life. I budget, make my meals fresh, don't regularly buy frivolous things and i can live comfortably.

Labour are your crazy lefties with mainstream support right?

>>76244007
Horse dancing is part of your culture Nigel. You should learn to be more appreciative.

>>76243937
>Muh Taxation is theft

What does it feel like to live in a country where you can't vote for Ron Paul?

>>76244550
It makes less sense when you remember May was a remainer.

>>76244568
Mainstream communists right now

The absolute state of British politics. I wish a slow painful death to all of you who were old enough to vote in the 2010 GE, but didn't vote BNP.

>>76244588
>you now remember the BNP

>>76244561

>Accept your lot in life, peon, dying in the gutter means you are too lazy to make some fresh meals.

Seriously hope you're getting a degree in killing yourself.

>>76244558
Its facetious to pretend that we aren't an important trading partner to the EU. No deal is as bad for them as it would be for us. However, if it seems that parliament would refuse to allow a no deal situation then the EU has more negotiating power. This is what a weak Tory majority/minority government would do. If they think we're willing to walk away with no deal then they'll be more compromising.

Would you compromise on a deal when you know the other party is going to take anything?

>>76244568
Used to be hard left way back, then became tories by another name and are now more in line with scandinavian socialism.

>>76244607
Probably philosophy and then he'll wonder why he can't get a job with it

>>76243937
autism

>>76244611
We need the EU a lot more than the EU needs us though

>tfw Corbyn doesn't win but Labour gets the FA Cup and Wenger stays in

>>76244607
It takes so little effort to budget and save money than you can put away that a lot of it does come down to laziness. For most its fairly shitty because they were never really taught (huge part of the poverty cycle) but its the only way someone can properly escape it.

>>76244561

And you are a uni student, living on government loans or your daddies money as a single. Lets see how easy it is to budget when your washing machine breaks down, your kids need new shoes, the car needs new brake pads, the rent or mortgage payment is due etc.

>>76244630
This isn't true. I'm not a retard who's going to pretend we won't hurt, and I still think the best course of action would have been never leaving in the first place, but its happening and to go back on it will only hurt us more. No deal is genuinely better than a bad deal for several reasons. This is the situation we're in and ensuring we can negotiate strongly is the pragmatic choice.

>>76244611
>Its facetious to pretend that we aren't an important trading partner to the EU

True.

>No deal is as bad for them as it would be for us

It'd be far worse for us. We'd have no deal with the EU and no regional trade agreement in place. Joining the illustrious list of Somalia, South Sudan, Mauritania, East Timor, São Tomé & Principe and Palau. Even North Korea has a trade agreement with China.

No deal is the worst possible deal.

>>76244614

Well, that means he didn't work hard enough!

Srs though, I'm a software engineer that specialises in automation. Universal income needs to happen, at the moment I'm automating the outsourced jobs but it's going to get to a point where low-skilled labour isn't needed. That's why I'd happily pay more tax.

>>76244645

Right, you're falling into the trap that poverty is 100% of the fault of someone's personal choices. This isn't close to true, ask the poor fuck who gets born in some shithole country, getting fucking cholera, on his deathbed, "How much harder should you have worked?"

>>76244649
Don't borrow a penny from my parents because they can't afford to do that. I do get a loan while I'm studying but that doesn't undo my argument because a) its impossible for me to work full time and study and b) I'm not talking about during those month,s I'm talking about the months I don't get my loan.

5 months out of the year I live purely on what I earn and since I put effort into it I get to live comfortably on it. Not having a kid or a car is part of that "making the right decisions" thing I keep banging on about.

>>76244672
I disagree with your analysis of a no deal situation but its irrelevant since the best situation for each party is to have a deal. The important part is that the EU has to believe we are willing to walk away without one, otherwise they have the upper hand.

Again, would you compromise on a deal with someone who you know is going to take it?

>>76244694
We're not talking about that poor fuck though. We're talking about the UK right now. This is moving goalposts.

>>76244771

It's called an 'analogy'. People aren't 100% responsible for their lot in life.

>>76244801
No, but a British man is more responsible for his lot in life than a Somalian man.

>>76244730

Every uni student does find because your only real expenses are rent, alcohol and food.

You're making a big presumption that people using food banks have always been on a path towards it and it's not a case of inflation, social services and benefits being cut down and a global recession. I'm sure most of them also had savings and had to cut down on a lot of luxuries and are still fucked. You can't just say "oh well the price of living is rising I better just put my kids up for adoption no big deal".

>>76244758
>I disagree with your analysis of a no deal situation

What is there to disagree with? We'd be a minnow in the trading world. There's no denying it.

>The important part is that the EU has to believe we are willing to walk away without one, otherwise they have the upper hand.

But they know we won't, all those involved in negotiating and scrutinising the process so far also know it's a must avoid situation for very obvious reasons. It's just Theresa May trying to look "strong and stable" in an attempt to win votes. Do not fall for it.

>>76244827
If they've blown their savings then the source of their savings were poor or their management post recession was poor. If they've been working the same dead end job for a decade with no promotion or any vertical move then they're not putting enough effort in to work, training or looking for jobs. IF they were relying on social services before they were reformed then they were on a path to it.

>letting government into your sports

how

>>76244825

(Not the original guy you're debating)

Bruh, being someone that works closely with children of low income/troubled backgrounds, I can tell you you'd be surprised how shitty a start in life some people can get. Not somalia bad I assume, but even in somalia you could be born to parents who instill a strong work ethic and support you. It's a different story when you're left to care for your disabled mom after your alcoholic dad went to prison after beating the family most days. (This is the most extreme example I have but it's indicative of what I'm talking about).

>>76244831
I'm not going to bother unpacking all the assertions propping up your argument. Sorry senpai

>>76244888
I'm not denying that exists which is why way up in the thread I do advocate minimal support for individuals in that sort of situation. This originally all started from me arguing that recklessly spending is what put is into this situation but that doesn't mean I'm a hard line libertarian. It should be about giving people that you work with the agency to break free from that.

>>76244883

Aren't all your stadiums built using tax payers money?

>>76244883
Literally this
>>76244923

At least Corbyn is advocating using private money to fund public aspects of sports, not public money to fund private capital.

>>76244890
With arguing skills like that i can see why you're in favour of Britain flipping the table and walking away.

>>76244956
Its 11:30pm and you're relying solely on flimsy assertions. I'd rather they take a good deal and to get a good deal we have to be willing to take no deal. This is basic negotiating.

>>76244879

So what if you are born in some post-industrial northern shithole where there is no real opportunity unless you're naturally bright and academically minded? Should we just put them into camps?

>76244922

What use is agency if they aren't raised in a way that they know what to do with it though?

For example the fact that finances are not part of the curriculum is a tragedy. I'd be happy to advocate for libertarianism -if- our education system actually produced people capable of making rational choices pertinent to the society they live in.

>>76244991
Basic negotiating should tell you that a good deal scenario is impossible for two reasons. One being that the government is unsure of what sort of deal it wants, two is that there's no way the EU will agree to let us have a better deal than we already have. There is no good deal.

Brexit is drawn-out damage mitigation at this point and no deal is the worst case scenario. One that ends with a hard border in Ireland, grounded flights between Britain and Europe, an immediate halt of lorries crossing the channel, a human rights crisis for EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU etc...

>>76243921
5% is like half billion quid considering that the premier league + all the teams individually are worth tens of billions

>>76245044
>>76244922

>>76245044
You touch on what I mean by "i advocate for support" as part of that would be helping to raise them in a way that they know what to do with it. I believe public education should be a focus of investment as actually preparing all sorts of people for later life and that things such as finance and general PSE should be an integral part of a curriculum. When I say "giving people agency" part of that is ensuring they can actually use it.

>>76244402
subprime mortgages were stimulated by the Clinton administration.

>>76245032
There's always opportunity. Work a shitty local job, save money then try and move or open a business locally. Allow them to do this with an economic policy that supports small businesses or new business, that doesn't make it harder for social mobility to occur.

>>76245169

Most businesses fail within the first year, and you're presuming that somebody is intelligent enough to go through the process of setting up their business, costing it, running a marketing campaign and managing employees efficiently. Unless you want every single person on the street to own a corner shop?

>>76245248
IF they're not intelligent enough to do that then they can work a shitty job, save money and try to get on the property ladder or they can move somewhere else where there are more opportunities. Stop only engaging half my posts - it makes it seem like you can't respond to the other half.

>>76245282

The other half of the argument was moot as I'm specifically talking about people who won't be starting their own business or if they tried and it failed, and again you are presuming everybody has the luxury to save money up etc.

For example, my grandmother and grandfather had 5 children, during the 1950's, it was a social obligation to repopulate after WW2. My Grandfather died in a workplace accident so my Grandmother was left widowed with 5 young children, she worked all the time, the oldest siblings looked after the youngest etc. She worked damned hard her whole life and never remarried or leeched off another man out of pride, she would had to have used food banks today out of no fault of her own.

>>76243937
>>76244577
Honestly this. How do you even survive in the UK?
The LP here is not a major political party, but at least people have heard of it and I don't have to buy a TV license.

>>76246179
Don't you have a stadium to buy?

>>76246179

We could vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party which would cause a complete collapse of government.

>>76246220
Not that I'm from San Diego, but https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/11/08/san-diego-chargers-stadium-vote-fails

Not saying US sports aren't too subsidized, just asking how a Briton could hold limited government views over there without going crazy

>>76246236
Please do that. Your government's been garbage for the last 300 years+