Brady claims he is nowhere near the greatest QB ever

Everyone's wrong once in their life.

The system meme is NOT a criticism though. That's the way the game is supposed to be played. It's a team sport. The fact that he adheres to it so well is a good thing

It's called modesty. This is the same guy who takes pay cuts just so they can sign more players.

>>75937166
This

what a god

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Just cements the GOAT status desu.

Whether he's saying it legit, or if he just knows saying it will confirm it there's really no debate.

He's the best who's ever done it, he's somehow dominated a team sport. That's special.

This is old news.

Anyone that has actually watched Brady discuss this topic knows that it borderline irritates. He hates it. He and Bilacheck have both acknowledged multiple times that Brady isn't the most amazing player from a breakdown perspective. Brady has gone on and on about players like Peyton and Rodgers "doing things with the ball I'll never be able to".
It doesn t matter.
Sure, if you were picking QBs for some dream team you probably wouldn't pick Brady, but his career will never be surpassed and that's all that matters.

>>75937166
I don't get what's wrong with being in a system. People would rather have their star QB be out there mauled to death like Luck.

>>75937215
Exactly.

It's just that /sp/ is a meme board that doesn't actually understand the sport of American football so they meme about how it's all Brady, despite the man's (and his coach's) constant denial.

They are the best team and franchise of all time. Once you start dissecting that it becomes impossible to judge players individually.
Rings for example are a terrible metric of QB success.

Literally anybody that actually watches handegg closely knows this.
It changes nothing about his legacy however

He's GOAT AND he's humble.

It depends on what we are talking about.

If we're talking about it from the scenario of who is the single most athletically talented, who had the most raw potential and ability, like if you were going to pick one A/V for your team from the history of the NFL without knowing any other factors, would you pick Brady? Of course not.

But if we are just looking at the records for each QB and what they have accomplished in their tenure, then it's not even close, he's the undisputed GOAT!

18-1

>>75937247
>best franchise

The fuck out of here with that

>>75937316
Basically this.

>>75937247
the patriots were on the same level as the jets before 2000

not even a hater but they're not the best franchise yet

>>75937316
This.

The first type of classification doesn't matter because no one player makes a team. And we could play hypothetical all day long. Yeah, he wouldn't have his success without Bill, but Bill wouldn't have the same success without him either.

The second classification is what matters.

>>75937318
Look at what they've been able to do in the salary cap era, nobody else comes close. To win the Super Bowl 5 times in 16 years with a hard salary cap is insane.

>>75937349
They're the best franchise of the post cap era.

Better?

>>75937350
>Yeah, he wouldn't have his success without Bill, but Bill wouldn't have the same success without him either.

To be fair, if you swap Brady with Manning I think Bill still has at least 3 or 4 rings. Can't say the same about Brady if you swap Bill with any other coach.

>>75937147
It's called being humble, and giving yourself something to keep striving for.

There's a lot of factors that go into this.
Obviously if he wasn't married to Gisele he's be asking for a lot more money.
Obviously if Bill wasn't the coach, the records would be different.

But after a certain point, you really have to just give the man his due. He's been terrific.
I guess if what Brady is trying to say is that if you took someone just godly like Payton Manning, and put him on the pats instead of Brady, yeah I guess they'd win even more owls, but that didn't happen so it doesn't matter.

>>75937373
Well sure. Very few people actually think Brady is the best QB on a neutral team, but that's not how we measure things in this sport.

Ranking individual talent in handegg is fucking retarded. That's what he's saying. He's not denying or accepting the title because he knows it's a team sport.

>>75937358
I mean sure, but that's only like what 20 years?

>>75937431
Name a framchise thats had a better 16 year run

>>75937147
>This conversation again
It's old and boring now.
He's the best because he has the best record. That's the only tangible comparison we can make to other QBs

Anything else is just hypothetical.

And I get it, trust me. I've heard the arguments about how "if Brady was on another team" and I'm not even saying he wouldn't do worse somewhere else without Bill, but the fact of the matter is he is where he is, and that's what we have to go by.

>>75937147
Only the GOAT would say that

Just watched an interview about this.
He's not just being bashful, he's almost annoyed with the question.

I get where he's coming from, his team compliments him a lot and his coach is literally the GOAT, but he's pretty foolish to dismiss the talk completely.

>>75937445
it's one of the best runs ever, not denying it but the first 40 years of the franchise were firmly below average

of the super bowl era I'd only put the steelers ahead of them and they're knocking on the door.

>>75937349
Actually if you went by rings the Jets were ahead 1-0

What's the best metric for individual success of a QB?

>>75937473
Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls
Brady is 5-2 so far

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying Brady is better but if better record is the determining factor then Montana still has a claim.

>>75937534
>What's the best metric for individual success of a QB?
There is none.
QBs only come into their own when they find an environment and """""system""""" they gel with. The difference with Brady is that
1. He found that environment early
And 2. He didn't let greed consume him. He always took less. (Though as someone pointed out his wife earning a shit ton has a lot to do with this)

>>75937551
Montana is even more held up by his team mates than Brady is tho

This just proves that he's the goat, all the greats say they aren't the best out of respect for others
>Jordan said the players before him were the best
>Gretzky never said he was the best
>maradona never said he was the best

>>75937534
1. Consistency
2. Winning
3. Peak Performance(did they win mvps at their best? or were they always just in the 5-10 range like Big Ben)
4. Longevity
5. Context of their era.

>>75937577
>Jordan never said he was the best
Nigga what?

>>75937577
I don't think you know Jordan

Replace Brady with Manning. How many owls do they win?

>>75937577
Jordan was a huge egotistical asshole

Brady probably is too deep down, but he's not the type to boast in front of the media.

>>75937638
>Replace Brady with Manning. How many owls do they win?
They lose the Seahawks and Falcons owls that just happened but they win all the other ones, don't lose to the giants either time, and pick up another win likely the year manning won with the colts

>>75937638

Manning likes to control more of the game plan than Brady

it would affect too much to be able to predict

>>75937638
6 or 7.
Granted they don't win all the same owls. They would lose to the seachickens for instance.

>>75937638
I'd say 3

>>75937577
>Maradona never said he was the best

Yes he did.

"For me he (Messi) is a great lad, but I still think that I was the best.'

Also
>all the greats say they aren't the best out of respect for others

Muhammad Ali was calling himself the greatest all the way back when his name was Cassius Clay and he hadn't won the heavyweight title yet,

>>75937638
I'm not sure Bill would put up with Eli's autism

>>75937638
At least, just as many. Simply because Peyton loses two of the ones they won tops because he's not as much of a comeback stud but the g men would never even get close either time.

They have a good chance of picking up an additional owl as well, but it's impossible to know.

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>>75937701
>he thinks we are talking about eli

>>75937638
Probably 3. Brady is just mentally tough and clutch while Peyton was carried to both his rings. Brady was never carried even though it's a meme his D and Vinatieri carried him. Go watch his drive against the Rasm for proof

>>75937638
Peyton would have found a way to choke in situations where Brady didn't

I'd say 3

>>75937638
Just as many if not more easily

>>75937736
brady was carried in 2001

yeah he had one clutch fg drive but he had 1(one) td pass the entire postseason and the patriots defense won that game no matter what you want to say about brady.

It'd be like saying Malcolm Butler was more important than brady in 49 just because he made the play to close out the game

in 2001 Bledsoe threw the game winning touchdown vs the steelers in the afccg and pats offense was bailed out by the pick six in the owl, and that's not even mentioning he nearly fumbled away the ball vs the raiders.

>>75937834
>brady was carried in 2001
I am a cocksucker for brady and that guy is right

>>75937396
>Implying Chicken Parm Man would have won more Owls than Brady if he had half the amount of HOF offensive talent

>implying being the goat in football means anything

>>75937523
Nobody cares about pre 90s football you faggot

No shit. If you swap him and Rodgers, he'd be way worse and Rodgers would have a ring every year.

>>75938398
i do

>>75937162
even a stopped watch is right twice a day

What other Michigan QBs were sucessful in the NFL?

I think this is all about discipline, he just follows Belichick's playbook without questions and that's it. Put any other QB in his position and he probably wouldn't be as successful, like Rodgers and his last-play hail marys are an absolute no-no in Bill's team, and Peyton's style also clashes with him.

>>75938503
The game is completely different. You can't compare teams from now to those back then

>>75937638
13.

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>even Brady realizes he's a system baby

>all these Bradyfags back tracking

HAHAHAGAHAAGAHAGSHDJSHDHDHRDHAJ

LITERALLY CANNOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

System QB shitter exposing himself while his white knight fans catch amnesia so they don't contradict their God. KEKEKEKEK

>>75937357
They're the best team of the modern era, but saying they are better then the Steelers and Raiders of old (just to name two) is premature.

>>75938576
agreed that it's dumb to compare them directly to one another but football has a great history and to just dismiss it due to recency bias is lame.

the best way to compare teams is the success they had relative to the other teams of their era. It's not easy to do but makes for fun conversation if you're into sports history.

Will say though if the patriots repeat they're the greatest franchise of the last 50 years(super bowl era) because the run they're on has been that good.

I only give the Steelers a smidge because they've been the most consistent franchise since the 1970's.

They've won multiple championships in both the pre and post salary cap era, which has to count for something.

No, he's still the best no matter what he says. Natural talent isn't everything. No other QB could've won that game but him because he had the heart for it. Gayron Rodgers would've gave up in the second quarter.

>>75937147
Good on you, Tom.

>>75938605
I respect him a lot more for saying it though.

>>75938616
Brady is alright, its his fans that are faggots.

>>75937565
>he's never seen joe Montana play

Anon stop being so ignorant

>>75937736
The kicker literally won Brady 2 rings. How is that a meme?? Those were 2 win or go home kicks

>>75937215
nothing wrong with success in a system, its when people start claiming that a team system exists because of one player or that the one player is better than he truly is.

Fact is, Tom is good at the game but he didn't revolutionize it in the way some other quarterbacks have.

Bradyniggers are annoying because they refuse to accept basic facts like the fact John Elway and Peyton Manning changed the game more than Brady did.
They will pull up stats and scream MUH RINGS without ever considering the fact that a pocket passing QB isn't exactly reinventing the wheel.

I know Peyton was a pocket passer too, but goddamn did he change the way audibles were done and revolutionize the leadership role of a quarterback in the offense.

John Elway is self explanatory, closest thing to a one man show ever in the league and changed the game for "dual threat" and "scrambling" type quarterbacks.

Tom is good, but he isn't actually that special of a player, and other guys were. Even if they dont have MUH rings or MUH STATS

>>75938845
>John Elway is self explanatory, closest thing to a one man show ever in the league and changed the game for "dual threat" and "scrambling" type quarterbacks.

Fran Tarkenton and Roger Staubach were earlier scramblers, they just didn't do it with the size Elway had

>>75938845
"Changed the game" and "leadership role" are arbitrary ways to measure success, you sound like you've watched too much ESPN

The biggest change Peyton brought to the NFL was whining in the offseason to the rules committee until they changed the rules for defensive holding to benefit passing offenses.

>>75937709
> he doesn't understand the concept of sarcasm even though he's the native speaker

>>75937215
>he isn't s system baby he is good
>what's wrong with being a system QB?

>>75937700
"You're a great lad"
"For You"

>>75938811
Ah yes, I forgot Vinateiri carried the ball down to the 40 yard line.

>>75938845
changing the game doesn't necessarily mean you were great

Vick changed the game more than brady did but he only had spurts of success due where as brady is sustained greatness not seen over 16 years

>>75939039
you're right on this but to be fair i see pat fags do the same thing to manning in his 2006 championship run

>>75939098
Because Vinateiri made more FGs for Chicken Parm man in the 2006 playoffs than all 3 of Brady's runs combined, while Chicken Parm man put up a 3 TD 7 INT ratio for those playoffs

>im not the GOAT
>Madden 18 lterally cays hes the GOAT
>he signed off on that

brady is a master troll

>>75939098
Did you even watch the 2006 playoff run? Parm man sucked absolute cock.

>>75937834
This is accurate, but it was also basically his first season as a starter. By the 03-04 owls, he was already near his prime. It's just a shame that bill never gave him a top tier receiver to throw to until 2007. In some ways it's almost a blessing he was hurt in 2008 because if they kept that team, the pressure for him to perform would have been utter insanity.

>>75938845
No, Tom Brady didn't revolutionize the position, but he has been the most incredible leader in the history of the sport to play the QB position. Even though Peyton probably wrote the playbook for his teams, teams didn't have the same fear that he just couldn't be beaten down. That counts for something in terms of how you measure special.

>It's over
>Dats Tom Brady do
>We finna bouta put forty on they ass lil nigga

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>>75937834
>Nearly fumbled against the Raiders

>>75937147
It's what the Goat would say.

Always striving to get better.

>>75937316
>!

End yourself

Will he retire once Bellichick gets dead?

>>75939159
He was better than the stats showed. he was good when he needed to be, especially in the afccg

a ring is a ring, I don't care about style points

>>75939414
>Implying Bill isn't immortal

>>75939453
Then don't fucking say stupid memes like muh Vinateiri or muh defense, you niggers can only have it one way

>>75939476
I didn't

I was just pointing out it's hypocritical to say Brady deserves credit for Vinateri's field goals but Manning does not.

The qb needs to get the kicker in position to score points. Kicker's are always given too much credit or too much blame. They're rarely the reason a team directly wins or loses a game, even in the wide right the bills made a lot of dumb mistakes prior to that.

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>>75939521
lol

>>75939559
thanks for proving my point

>>75939521
And >>75939133 pointed out why your argument is a false equivalency and why that comparison isn't even remotely hypocritical

>>75939602
how the fuck is it a false equivalency?

the pats offense scored one fucking touchdown in the super bowl

Brady had one touchdown pass that entire postseason, and drew bledsoe threw the game winning td in the afccg. Manning even had a higher YPA and completion % in his 2006 run than Brady did in 2001.

Don't give me that bullshit.

>>75937551
But Montana reached 3 (so far) fewer Super Bowls

>>75939671
Because he wasn't turning the ball over like a complete fucking idiot and his kicker didn't contribute as much in 2003 and 2004 despite the memes

Reche Caldwell and Rax Grossman are responsible more than anyone for Peyton winning anything in 2006

>>75939855
Peyton had only one interception in his 2015 super bowl run with the broncos, just because you're not turning the ball over means you're actively contributing to your team winning.

And the grossman argument is dumb. The bears were 13-3 with grossman all year, so either grossman played well that year(no he didnt) or that defense was really fucking good(bingo). And if opposing quarterback means so much to you Peyton had to get through Brady in the afccg to get to the bears.

>>75937147
If he accepted such claims most of this board would be calling him an arrogant asshole, that's just a normal reaction to that kind of question, regardless of what he actually believes

>>75937147

Anyone who takes this seriously is a fucking idiot.

He's clearly trying to be humble and anyone who's heard him speak before knows this.

He doesn't care about some basement dwelling faggot on 4chan trying to twist his words for the sake of their nigger-tier argument that he's a """system QB""".

>>75940780

1 INT and at least 3-4 fumbles in that post-season. Peeton Manning was a joke of a QB in 2015 no matter how you try to spin his putrid year.

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>>75939671

>>75937147
he's a cheater you can't trust what he says

>>75937638
none

>>75939671

Brady is an enormous reason they won the SuperBowl in 2001. You cannot refute this no matter how hard you try.

He led that last minute field goal drive to perfection, clutch play after play after play.

>>75938811

Were the Pats supposed to be fucking retards and throw hail mary's at the end-zone for a TD instead of going for a FG when that was all they needed with no time left? Did Vinatieri wear a Brady jersey to drive them down the field both times, then switch jerseys to kick the FGs?

Jesus Christ, even after SB 51, the inability for whiny faggots to simply accept greatness instead of denying it is just remarkable.

>>75937638

Peyton would've shit his pants in far too many big games for Bill's liking, especially in all the cold-weather Foxborough playoff games. He probably would've traded him after getting fed up. Especially with his sulking, arrogance and Archie Manning's bullshit. Bill couldn't put up with it.

Answer: ZERO.

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it took me a decade to come to terms with it but I think Brady might be the GOAT over montana now
montana was more fun to watch and had more magic and physical ability though
>initially like brady, glad he's gonna get a chance to start in NE now that bledsoe went down
>he's a california guy, played at michigan so he's allright in my book
>dude just becomes a fucking brain surgeon right off the bat carving teams up and always seemed to make the right decision
>the Pats have been a joke of a franchise, just basement level afterthoughts in the league, honestly if you wanted to list all 32 teams you would maybe forget the pats or the titans even existed. people forget that. I dont remember any pats fans prior to 2001. maybe seen a jersey once.
>Brady goes on to create a dynasty, owl after owl
>Pats fanbase and NE fanbase in general completely makes me despise him
>just recently have finally learned to root for the supervillian now

He's a fucking scumbag liar, totally deflated those balls and probably has been for his entire career, the rumors about the Pats having bugs inside the stadium are probably true also
but the fucking man is an amazing QB
oh and fuck him because the raiders should have gone to the owl that year. fucking tuck rule bullshit. that was a fucking fumble. but this effort to deny his GOAT status? that he is a system babby? fuck off with that noise. Brady is easily the best QB to play the game. He can just do everything. He capitalizes on every fucking play. if there is a chance he takes it and it always pays off for him. people dont see the risk in his game at times. dude is fucking ice cold and always bets on himself. its like golf. no one wants the hyper competent guy who doesnt make mistakes but doesnt have any flash either to win. they want john daly to win.
also he's super fucking cool to his team and was a total bro for wes welker. dude honestly cares so much about winning and not chasing a pay check that it's endearing.

>>75937551

Yes, making it to and winning less super bowls is better. I agree.

>>75939414
He lives off the souls of all Jest, Razors and Fish hatred, he'll never die now.

>>75937551
AFC was a glorified minor league in the 80s early 90s. Between Montana's 1st and last ring the AFC never won a Super Bowl

>>75937298
>He's GOAT AND he's humble.
The former doesn't exist without the latter. Highly achieving people don't accept they're responsible for anything. There's a term for it but I can't remember what.

>>75941933
Ali

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>>75941775
>100% is worse than 71%

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>>75942306
>montana only played 4 years

>>75941099
thats my point, he was shit but his playoff stats in 2015 were a little better than brady's in 2001

He's saying that without Belichick, he wouldn't be shit. We all know that. Put Brady on a team like the Colts or Browns, and he wouldn't be shit. Belichick would have won the same amount of rings with Peyton, Rodgers, or whoever could come in there and just be consistent.

>muh peypey
>muh montana
sad!

>>75942587
Brady had 1 year of experience in 2001, muh arm or not Peyton was an awful decision maker even his last year

>>75942617
rodgers maybe, peyton? no way

>>75939597
when did vinny go 1/3 for Peyton?

>>75939559
Why did they need to kick three field goals that day if they had the GOAT at QB?

>>75942306
Is 1-0 better than 3-1 by your autistic logic?

>>75942714
you mean two FG right? they wouldnt need the 3rd if Vin had made one of the previous two

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>>75937147
basiclly he's a humble grateful guy who just happens to have a laughably unscientific diet and who will balloon up to 300lbs when he retires and tries eating tasty food.
As dumb as that diet is, I prefer to believe that Tom follows it because it's his wife's (stupid) idea, and he does it because he loves her.

>>75941919
not true actually, raiders won in 1983

>>75941268
>Brady is an enormous reason they won the SuperBowl in 2001. You cannot refute this no matter how hard you try.

>He led that last minute field goal drive to perfection, clutch play after play after play.

yes the last field goal drive was clutch, but so was butler's interception in super bowl 49

does that mean malcolm butler was more responsible for their championship in 2014? hell no

Brady had one touchdown pass that entire postseason, as much as drew bledsoe his backup who threw the go ahead td in the afccg.

Brady's the goat but nobody was saying after his 2001 postseason that he carried the patriots to anything.

>>75942714
Because their #1 receiver was Deion Branch in his 2nd year

>>75942655
Peyton definitely. Belichick would mold him.

>>75942648
I'm not disputing Brady was impressive for his experience in 2001, but he did not play well in that postseason. He had a few big moments, but overall he was lackluster and the patriots defense was more responsible for that championship for doing a number on the greatest show on turf and in the afccg Bledsoe threw the go ahead touchdown pass to send them to the super bowl.

>>75942794
Into not pathologically choking? Call Brady a system baby all you want but to even say him and Peyton are equally trustworthy in big moments is flat out retarded

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>>75942722
>100% is worse than 75%

>>75942794
i think peyton just wasnt good enough to beat good defenses

i could be wrong though

>>75942933
I'm asking you which QB has a better resume if all else is identical you autist

Let's also say the guy to go 1-0 has the record for one and dones in a career

>>75942981
I agree with the point you're making but just a counter question

If losing the super bowl is better than going one and done

than going one and done is better than not making the playoffs(obviously this does not apply to Brady but lets say Drew Brees who has only made the playoffs 6 times as opposed to peyton who made the playoffs 15 times

>>75942875
But would it be the same if Peyton was in Belichick's system?

>>75942981
dude calm down and just suck brady's dick pls

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>>75937147
Getting sick of the humble shit tbqh. It's not going to change the haters perception, they'll scream cheater or muh Sheli or whatever else shit they cling to.

Just fucking step up to the mic already and go full Bret Hart and say you're the best there ever was and best there ever will be.

>>75943577
Would Peyton allow himself to be coached by Bellichick the way Brady has?

>>75937147
no hes just modest

also has the ability to let his play do all the talking

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>>75937147
GOAT and modest

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>>75937147
You heard from the man himself. If he says he's not the goat then he's not the goat.

I"m inclined to agree with Brady on this one.

I mean it's not like you'd patsfags would call your idol wrong..... would you?

>>75942756
he eats extremely healthy food and has become way more agile, aged 39. You ok buddy?

he was ok with being the the cover of the GOAT edition of madden just publicly he'll never brag

Brady isn't the GOAT. Brady + Belichick is the GOAT.
Brady's best-in-class attributes are his coachability and his never-say-die attitude. He is an avatar of Belichick on the field.
Belichick is playing a video game out there through Brady. Brady will execute Bill's orders perfectly, just like a video game. No second guesses or know-it-alls fucking it up (Payton).
And most importantly, like a Roman of the middle Republic, Brady will not give up. Ever.

If GOD were to boast...

>>75937147
He is GOAT because he has amazing ability alongside his fantastic sportsmanship/willingness to do whats best for the team (example pay cuts) that consistently make his team the best in the league.

4 4th qtr comebacks in the 'owl alone.

Ridiculous. I stroked out once.

Greatness is partially a byproduct of circumstance. Aaron Rodgers is an elite talent but went to a team that was poorly coached and managed on the defense side which held him back, boo hoo that's life and circumstance. The most talented QB ever probably never even got a chance to play the sport in the NFL.

But Brady has had the best career, that's what we have, and the greatest career.

How can you watch that Super Bowl performance and not see it cemented right there, that was greatness

SKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPP

>>75937373
2 rings with Manning at most, and that is even IF it works. Manning's ego would clash with Belichick's team first philosophy. Manning has proven himself to be a choke artist against good defenses in the playoffs, and he requires dominant defenses to carry him in the post season. The Patriots defenses have mostly been good, but maybe only 1 or 2 seasons were they actually dominant. He can't nut up consistently and play his best in tough playoff games like Brady has made a career doing.

>>75937162
Truly Lord Brady is a noble man.

You're all right Finland.

>>75938618

To be fair, they've won more rings than either at this point.

>>75937147
Would he have had the same kind of success if he played in Cleveland?

>>75945793
Right now yes, but not at his begininnings

>>75945543
what

steelers won 6 owls

>>75944484
Nah he's definitely the GOAT. There is no denying it at this point. Being humble just adds to his legacy.