Refball - how does it work?

>>75931422
Refs are just human. In football they make decisions in seconds and stick with it. Its better to stay behind your decision than backing out, that would just show that you can be influenced by the players and the crowd.

>>75931957
But why is fifa/uefa so reluctant to help them out, has such vague rules and qhat about the massive financial implications based on their decisions? Do you really think there is nothing going on but occasional human error?

>>75932003
I believe its mostly "tradition and spirit of the game" thats keeping videorefing from being a bigger thing.

I think most refballs are just refs being afraid of fucking up against a big player, that's why Barcelona gets tons of penalties and Ramos needs to literally fuck someone's carreer before getting a red card, yet the same ref in the same match can commit a mistake that affects Barcelona/Real Madrid/big player.

However there are other times when refs clearly have an agenda, Korea's games in the 2002 World Cup are probably the best example and recently Mexico gor a similar treatment in the 2015 Gold Cup (CONCACAF did everything possible to get that USA-Mexico match in LA, filling a stadium and getting tons of shekels for tv rights)

>>75932053
This. I've also heard retired WC referees give a different veredict on the same play, so video might just make more controversy

>>75932056
kind of agree.

i think it is a mixture, sometimes ref is in awe / intimidated by certain clubs or players, who may well have the leverage to actually affect their chances of reffing top games again, if they feel somehow not fairly treated, hence they overcompensate, i.e. give them favourable treatments, while other times there is blatantly some agenda at work.

Croatia , with Bilic as Coach, springs to mind, got really fucked by the refs a little while back.

>>75931422
I think the latent refball is worse than major decisions like Real's 2-2 (even though that was awful as well).
Latent refball being the fact that "top teams" usually get the small decisions called in their favour to "protect" their players as well as getting more injury time when they are behind allowing them a bigger chance to equalise.

It's okay, video tech will be in by 2019, we will be saved

>>75932362
we're getting our first videoref experiment in the cup final, and next season will be covered throughout

you'd know this if you watched our league

>>75931422
>Are the "top refs" all in on it (there are actually very few doing the major matches), being blackmailed in some pedo ring, bought, manipulated /brainwashed or told what to do through their earpieces?

It's not that severe, it's more like if they don't play ball they get relegated to the shitty leagues. What's supposed to happen is, if a ref has a poor game in the PL one week then the following week he'll referee a Championship or even L1 match. That's the rules, that's fair enough. But it's when the referees make decisions (correct ones) against the big clubs and by all accounts had a good game, but still get relegated the next week is when you ask questions. There's a website somewhere that covers it really well and points them all out. Though I suspect it was made by some ABU (for lack of a better term, because the whole site was about favourable United decisions), but he started to cover where it happened at other clubs too. I remember one of them was a referee who refused to give two penalties to United at OT (both correct decisions) and was being praised for his decision making by both the commentators and pundits (throwing terms like "bravery" around might have been too far), but do you know how they repaid him? By making him referee L1 and L2 matches for the next 6 weeks.
People think it's the FA who appoint referees for matches, but it isn't it's the referees association. I can't for the life of me remember who is/was head of the appointments, but I do know he was the "Howard Webb of the '90s" (ie pro-United) and it was he who was solely responsible for relegated referees if they make the wrong decisions (ie ones that don't favour the big clubs). If you don't do as you're told you aren't put forward for Cup finals, CL matches, internationals etc and it's that simple basically.
Googling around and you'll find the site I'm talking about, it's incredibly informative.
Obviously the garbage leagues are openly corrupt, but no one cares about them.

>>75932454
the whole league next season?

theyre doing the FA cup over here, aiming for the world cup too

>>75932454
>Portugal the League
I'm a fucking burger, and even I know that you're being self-important.

>>75931422
In football FIFA and IFAB choose to let the refering done by only 1 guy, who reigns supreme on his match and can't, never, be shamed if he does error(s).
Why? Because refering is HARD, and they need refs for the gorillions of matches.
Imagine you're an employee payed nothing and your boss shame you for the tiniest of error, you'll probably quit.

Also no video because the game doesn't allow stoppages, because they suck and if they were allowed you'll have to put a stop clock, so the ref wouldn't be in control of the clock.

the way football fans talk about refereeing is weird

hockey introduced video reffing and it didn't cut down on complaints about refereeing at all. what it did was take situations where it was normally the referees responsibility to notice a rule being broken (i.e. offside by half a feet) and turn them into semantic bitchfests that slow down the game and don't actually make anyone feel more accomplished.

unless it's something like violence if the ref misses it you have to deal with it and even with violence there should be leeway

think a couple months ago when that african dude stomped on Ibrahimovic's head so he elbowed him during a corner - i feel like if the ref misses the moment either of those things happen it should be expected that everyone just moves on and deals with it. treat it like part of the game.

diving is more egregious in any sport than a ref fuck up anyway because ref fuckups aren't meant to be as manipulative unless you've been paid by the mafia or something.

>>75932485
>>Portugal. the League
8/10 reference tbdesu

>>75932508
>Canada the Flag
You can be quiet, too.

traditionally it works through club power, the clubs more powerful at a given time will get favors from the ref, like not getting early yellows, yellowing the entire opponent defense at the end of the 1st half, how dubious penalties are decided, giving a hand in the first goal if needed.
There's no need to be words or orders from the referee institutions, a smart ref just knows who he's supposed to help, even though, in same cases there may be stuff like "just make sure they don't lose, if they are not totally shit". that's the case of most leagues in europe and the european competitions, the way I perceive it.

In meme leagues like the premier it seems to go a lot beyond that, the impression I get is that it's defined beforehand, scripted. the ref's job is to make sure the script is followed. there may be story arcs that even go from one season to the next like the "chelsea difficulties as champion, then resurgence as dominating force again the next season" or "the small meme club that is surprise champion, then is threatened by relegation, then it all has a happy ending"
>top refs
the best refs are the ones that can do it unnoticed, the way they make the players and the crowd feel they're not being reamed, or just impose their authority and do the job without any lubricant and players or managers don't dare to complain about pain in their assholes.

A bad ref would be like the ones in Korea WC where it was evident what was happening. that case was just blatant corruption, it's not likely a good ref would take money just like that, their real rewards are career progression with all the money perks and prestige it entails.

File: 1492044253148.jpg (35KB, 403x405px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 403x405px

>>75932509
AKA m80 the Leaf, am i right?

i'll stop now

>>75932463
Not sure if it's the entire league but at least the big 3 will have it
we're a pilot league, the dutch league as well I think

>>75932003
because it would not make that much of a difference, especially not in the long run. plus video ref still uses a human in front of a screen so the chance of human error is still there even if minimized by multiple replay/angles of the incident.

also, it would most likely decrease the occurence of smaller teams beating bigger ones which would make the already top heavy competitions even more boring.

What pisses me of is that rules are so vague, especially on barging, where it is often allowed, but will suddenly be called foul.

Many times towards the end of a match, one teams attempts to get the ball will always result in free kicks, of the kind that are usually not given, while the other team gets away with much stronger tackling.

This is very frustrating to watch, as it completely throws the flow of the game of one team and encourages them to get angry and make stupid errors. There has been many examples where an open and balanced game, suddenly turns into a complete rout (e..g Bayern v Arsenal, first leg, 1-1 at HT), as the referee suddenly starts constantly calling foul on one team and allowing the other to tackle very agressively..

>>75931422
good refballing is not sublte and not that noticeable.
yo might know that there are different styles of refereeing, that the same action may be called a foul by some refs and not called by others and both are acceptable choices.
Now if a ref uses the same criteria for both teams it's fine, but one might be a bit more lenient to one team and a bit more strict to another. No big actions, just the normal build up play. And if you go look at the replays the comments will be that some refs would have called it some wouldn't but there's nothing scandalous.
But the end result is that one team has a harder time building up the attack and defending.
You could go further and make some wrong calls in favor of the team you are refballing against. Just be careful to do it in an area of the field and to a type of player where they can't do much damage.for instance calling a non existent foul on their DM but letting fouls go uncalled on the talented playmaker.Then in the highlights it will appear that you've made mistakes in favor and against both teams and those who complain appear paranoid.
Further, you can be a bit of a little shit to players of one team but not the other. Small things, don't look them in the eye, respond more curtly, and so on. That will make them nervous and angry, which will influence their play.
With all those things you'll have one team that has a harder time building up attack, have trouble defending and their players will be afraid to make contact while in defense and so on.
If there are big evident cases of refball it's because the favored team was too inferior to the other, or was being too shit and couldn't score.

>>75932460
Trying to google but can't find anything. Do you remember anything about the name of the site or the person maintaining it? Highly interested in this.

>>75932460
That's exactly the same thing that happens here in Brazil. Also, in South America in general. If you don't as you're told to, your career is pretty much fucked.

>>75932706
closest i found is this:
http://www.refereedecisions.co.uk/

seems to have not been updated since 2014 but makes some interesting attempts at analysing referee decisions..

>>75932460
In La Liga, referees can't be relegated until the following season.

Also never looked into this until now, but Calciopoli was basically proof of organised refball and, just like the various pedo "scandals", there seems to be a lot more going on than actually came to light, i.e. was officially accepted and punished.

>The 2006 Italian football scandal, or Calciopoli in the Italian-speaking world,[1] involved Italy's top professional football leagues, Serie A and Serie B. The scandal was uncovered in May 2006 by Italian police, implicating league champions Juventus and other major teams including Milan, Fiorentina, Lazio and Reggina when a number of illegal telephone interceptions showed a thick network of relations between team managers and referee organizations, being accused of rigging games by selecting favourable referees.