>13 draws

>>75538437
you see a draw, I see an undefeated team, la

>>75538437
>26 without defeat
how can we break these lads?

>>75538437
And still more trophies than rest of the league sans Chelsea.

>literally highest amount of draws in the entire EPL

Got to build a solid defensive foundation first la

5 league goals conceded in 2017 is pretty impressive desu

Next season most of those draws will become wins and Man Utd will run away with the league

>>75538464
But they have been defeated and will lose out on CL football again kek

united will have at least 90 points next season.

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>fifth
>5th, as in 5 the numerical character

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>inb4 draws 1:1 to Celta in Spain
>draws 0:0 at home and goes to final
>le tactical mastermind billion pound Tony Pulis man

>>75538437
You cant become an artist without learning how to draw.

He's going for the record.

>>75538572
>>75538579
Kek'd at both

>>75538552
Liverpool are going to slip again aren't they?

>>75538552
>50 goals

Fucking state of this cunt

Do you guys ever think about the deterioration of manchester united?

When sir alex was the manager, this type of shit never happened. They always played "positive" football, and felt so fucking smug about it. And now you see customers boast of mourinho being a mastermind. Do they have no shame?

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No comment

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*draws towards the Europa League*

>>75538665
>They always played "positive" football
That's fucking bullshit. Fergie was as pragmatic as Mouyes.

>>75538665
I was about to say this. It's sad to see a great offensive team turned into an expensive Stoke.

>>75538680
>muh possession
Slovakia getting this annoyed.

>>75538665
u wot m8, Fergie had games far worse than this against City. I still remember the away loss that pretty much won the title for City in 2012.

>>75538540
>game in hand against swanshit to go a point above liverpool
>Europa league against Celtic Virgo and then The Artist Formerly Known as Ajax

>>75538690
No, he wasn't, especially not with other english teams. He would have played to win this fucking match, while the failed one was playing for a fucking draw.

>>75538552
>that liverpool defence
wew lad

>>75538572
Brilliant desu

>>75538700
Equally annoyed at Guardiola, everyone knew >mouyes was going to cowardly park three buses. But having your GK have most of the ball is extreme

>>75538764
The league is long gone and top 4 is wide open, their priority is EL, so why bothering more than needed while couple of your key players are missing, you can't afford anymore injuries and losing one point would do more harm.

>english teams
>City
Come on.

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>>75538803
it's the rules of the game. you need to move on, frustration won't get you anywhere.

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>tfw to intelligent to win against united D team

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>>75538858
The only positive >mouyes offered over Van Gaal was "more attractive football" initially. It's safe to say now that this ship has sailed long ago

>>75538665
>tf
>tt
od
Manure with Ferguson was the same, but they had the extra time meme bullshit

>>75538894
>literally bragging about completely impotent draws against local rivals
Not suprised that >mouyes' fanboys (You and Germany) are the only ones still here, you know what to expect of him. Paying customers are getting scammed hard

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united fans hailing this as a mighty tactical victory when they have infact been reduced to stoke levels

>>75538928
Outside of...
http://statsbomb.com/2017/04/the-table-is-the-same-has-mourinho-improved-manchester-united/

Comparing current Manure to Van Laals shitfest is insane.

>>75538928
>"The only positive >mouyes offered over Van Gaal was "more attractive football" initially"

He shored up the defence pretty well.

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>>75538995
Griezmann, Verratti, Dybala and Neymar next season la
100 goals scored, crushing teams left and right la (next season)

>>75539008
They're not even the best defending team in the league while scoring less than anyone in Top 7. Meh
>>75539008
Why did they only compare Van Laal's 15/16 season? He had 25% more goals in his first season while getting Top 4 comfortably

>>75538978
nobody cares about what costumers think, their job is to buy merchandising. doubt they even watch matches
>you know what to expect of him
yes, results.
>>75538995
>this much seething

>>75538437
>Mourinho
>white
what could you expect from a typical moortuguese shitskin

>>75539151
>results
Like what, 5th place and Milk Cup while playing the most atrocious football imaginable and being smug about it? That would be admirable for teams like West Brom, who have one tenth of the budget and aren't much lower in the table. Manure are self-proclaimed big club, yet they play fearful like underdogs constantly. Such status comes with expectations, and drawing your way to *possible* EL Final while the league was gone in November reduced any remaining fear factor Manure had. Spurs are much terrifying opponent to face these days, any relegation shitter knows they can easily get a point against >mouyes.

>>75539110
Second best isn't that bad given their injury record for 2 key positions. Their only flaw for now is scoring from the tons of chances created.

>He had 25% more goals in his first season
His philosophy took time. Just like it takes time rebuilding a team completely from that, look at the other side of Manchester.

>while getting Top 4 comfortably
Almost like the league improved from then. Even memes like Spurs, Livershit and Everton got a somewhat realistic top 4 chance now.

>>75538437
if united actually had a competent striker and not a 35 year old who has one of the worst conversion rates in the entire league, they could be winning games.

>>75539243
>Second best isn't that bad
It is, when it's your sole focus. They scored 50 goals, and even half of those were just Ibrahimovic creating something out of nowhere.
>league improved
Yeah, the league that was won by Leicester previous season sure is peaking in quality. Or dominated by PL newbie Conte currently.

>>75538572
Lol!

>>75539227
Mourinho is fixing a team left in tatters after Moyes and Van Gaal. No, it won't be remembered as a vintage United season, but it's clear to anyone that things are looking up under him.

>>75539309
If >mouyes wasn't bailed out by Ibrahimovic constantly for better part of the season, they would be well below Everton right now. Why am I not surprised that Manure's only valuable player of this season gets criticized as soon as he dies and announces his intention to leave

>>75539309
If United's key players weren't out they could and probably would have won that tonight.

Getting a draw at a place where they don't have the best of recent records when their squad is down to it's bare bones and you're acting like tonight was a bad result?

>>75539375
the blame falls on players like trashford and and martial just as much

>>75539351
>Mourinho is fixing a team left in tatters
Nice meme. Chelsea were much worse off after the disaster >mouyes left behind yet a competent manager doesn't have problems dominating with a team that has Victor Moses as a key player.

>>75539329
>Leicester previous season
That's when Van Laal managed to under-perform. Before the meming exploded, it took effort for Chelsea/Arsenil/Manchester clubs to lose on top 4 place. After the Lestah thing every team sans Arsenil improved, yet Mouyes improved most of the stats by at least 20%. Only the "taking chances" part left.

>If >mouyes wasn't bailed out by Ibrahimovic constantly for better part of the season, they would be well below Everton right now.
Or they would play different tactics. Last two games without Zlatan weren't too bad, not counting this one.

>>75539351
>but it's clear to anyone that things are looking up under him.
he will be sacked within the next two seasons
classic moyes style

>>75539329
>Yeah, the league that was won by Leicester previous season sure is peaking in quality

In terms of competitiveness, it's definitely improved. 66 points got 4th last season. Now even 75 points may not guarantee top 4.

>>75539420
Mourinho won Chelsea their first title in half a decade too.

His final season was down to players downing tools. He never wanted to go back to Chelsea anyway, the United job has always been his dream.

>>75539414
Not saying I rate Trashford or Martial highly (not at all, to be frank) but perhaps the cause is how >mouyes sets them up. If your finishing is as bad as Manure's this season, there's no way it's just bad luck or players being chokers.

>>75539451
Why do you get an England flag and I don't?

>>75539482

>Slovakia
>Football opinions

>>75539549
This.

Is there a more irrelevant country in Europe?

>>75539524
because you touch yourself at night

>>75539450
>Van Laal managed to under-perform
As did everyone. >mouyes' improvements aren't nearly as significant as what Conte has done to Chelsea or Koeman to Everton. Even Klopp improved massively compared to year before. Give Tony Pulis the same team and same budget and he would do the same, ironically enough playing the same football as well. The only comparable managerial failures this year are Wenger's Arsenal and Guardiola. Not counting Ranieri

>>75539459
"Big teams not choking as hard anymore" doesn't mean there's a sudden rise in quality. Chelsea are far from perfect and they have several shitters with guaranteed places in starting XI and yet they've been first for how long now? 22 matchweeks? Once Abra gives Conte some of that Russian mob money to spend I don't see how Manure could possibly compete with them in 17/18

>>75538552
>tottenham
>highest GD, fewest games lost, fewest goals conceded, second most goals scored
how? What did Pochettino do to make a bunch of literally who, youth players, and two above average belgian defenders play so well?

>>75539604
>Conte has done to Chelsea
Took over a team who won the title a season ago and threw a fit, spent 100million and led them back to the title without European football while the usual title rivals are rebuilding completely.

>Koeman to Everton
That was pretty good.

>Even Klopp improved massively compared to year before.
Eh, I'd rather wait for the end of the season. Besides in his first he finished worse than fucking Rodgers and only did well in cups.

>Give Tony Pulis the same team and same budget and he would do the same
Try recruiting world class players when your name is Pulis.

Out of the top 7 managers only Poch did something special given his means.

>Once Abra gives Conte some of that Russian mob money to spend
Not much would change. They are pretty close to the peak you can reach with his tactics.

>>75539716
Because he's a good manager, duh. Appointing the corpse of Mourinho instead of Poch is the equivalent of signing Pogba instead of Kante

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>>75538437

>>75538552

>2 points behind Liverslip with a game in hand

Habbening

>>75539420
playing 20 matches less is a bit easier desu

>>75539243
>>75539377
>>75539450
MUH INJURIES

Spurs managed to still thump teams 4-0 week in and out without their (literally) ONLY goal scorer, both of their main centre backs, and their main wide player (Rose) injured for a good portion of the season.

They managed this with youth academy graduates and fucking Son Hyeung Min. Manchester United Corp. have zero excuses. They are just plainly shit and don't have a manager like Pochettino who knows how to work around set backs.

>>75539823
Unfortunately Liverslip are against teams with literally nothing to play for (there is Boro but that's the last game, where they'll be no doubt relegated)

But you never know with them lot. Feel like United will need at least 12/15 points in the remaining games to seal it. With the remaining fixtures I don't see it happening.

>>75539566
It is not even a country duh

>>75539823
>those United fixtures

not happening

>>75539766
If it was just a "fit", they certainly didn't seem to improve much under Hiddink. Truth is they were dying of >mouyes' cancer and it took someone enthusiastic as Conte to slap their faces, get rid of the >mouyes stench and revolutionize playing system (that is now being copied by half of EPL btw). And Chelsea haven't even began to rebuild, there are still flop purchases like Pedro lingering around. Even Costa is basically holding them back now
>Try recruiting world class players
Not what Manure did anyway, pricetag means nothing anymore

>>75539766
>Klopp
>Do well in cups

Pick one/uno/EINS

>>75539804
>Poch: 0 (zero) career titles
>Mourinho: 24 (twenty-four)
>somehow Pochettino is the real deal
>>75539716
tottenham is a typical english team drilled to get results on the PL. Hence their poor record in Europe and having harry kane as best player.
it's good work from pocho but you can't really say they're at United's or even City's level. Hell, even Conte is probably a better overall manager

>>75539804
Kante is a meme player desu
>bad first touch
>tackle the ball back
>run around brainlessly
>horrible passing


Fellaini, yes this Fellaini made a fool of him last week

>>75539858
Then perhaps >mouyes shouldn't throw his A side against every single EL shitter from Slovakia or Hungary. I mean he barely beats them with his A side, but that is another story

>>75539912
>m-muh past achievements
We've been through this, all >mouyes has to show for him now is the past. There's a reason why we don't address him as Mourinho anymore

>>75539951
this I agree completely with. Selling Morgan and Bastian and keeping Fellaini is the stupidest thing a manager can do. It is literally Brendan Rodgers level bullshit.

>>75539897
>Conte invented 3-5-2
tired of this meme desu

>>75539948
I know this is a strange concept to a customer - laziest players in the whole league with least ground covered, often just standing in front of their own goal - but a workhorse like him is crucial in modern football, all CL semifinalists have one (Khedira, Bakayoko, Casemiro, whoever does that at Atletico maybe Gabi). It's no coincidence that he will become the first PL player to win back-to-back titles with two different teams. And I was comparing him to >pogba anyway, come on

>>75539912
Toby Alderweireld is their best player though

Also Moussa Dembele is criminally underrated, I honestly think he is better than Kante. Stronger, equally as good at tackling but with much better passing

Hit a real rough patch from like October to December - couldn't be arsed checking the exact dates - but they've been pretty fucking solid since then.

Comfortably the best defensive organisation in the league. Bailly with the highest upside of any defender in the league by a fucking mile.

Need more dynamism up front, but they're definitely on their way to building a side that's going to be imposing and very difficult to stop.

Anyone who can't see that is as blind to football as it gets.

>>75540005
He certainly made it popular, not his fault EPL is tactically a decade behind. And his Juve were first to have significant success with it since the 90s perhaps
>>75539983
I stopped questioning Manure transfers long ago, you'll just go crazy if you try to think of reasons behind them

english pinball league

>>75540055
>Comfortably the best defensive organisation in the league
Spurs back 4 even with their backups (Trippier, etc) shit all over them

>>75540033
I'm not a customer, but the Kante meme is getting out of hand. If you really want to see a complete and good midfielder check Wanyama, Dembele or Herrera. They are the three best in the PL now probably.

If you at least talk shit, not just talk fifa level bullshit. Bakayoko is quite good on the ball and he is more of the powerhouse in the MF, Fabinho does the running around, but also he is good with the ball. Khedira doesn't cover as much distance as Kante, not nearly. And in atletico Saul does the most work. If a midfield is well organized, and the players best abilities can come out, then a meme player like Kante is uninportant. Check the french national team. Kante is not even a starter for them. He is only good for the counter-attacking football. Every other times, he gets exposed. Like when mourinho blocked the half space and made chelsea keep the ball and have static attacks. That was a tactical genius of him.

it would've been nice to see a United side with Rojo and Pogba instead of Blind and Fella. They would've been faster, and maybe would've tried to attack a bit. This mach was time wasted this way. Sadly.

>>75540135
United have conceded 5 goals in 5 months of Premier League football.

>>75540135
Of course they do, their CBs are unparalleled in PL. But let the customers spout their Bailly memes, no point arguing

>>75539972
>english champion in 2015
>his team is about to be champion again, if the administrator they hired manage to not fuck it up
>past

>There's a reason why we don't address him as Mourinho anymore
that's just frustration because he picked United. You're just letting sentiment dictate your views. Mourinho is a football man, not a club man, and one day you'll be able to tell your little slovakian grandchildren you witnessed the most based and accomplished manager in the history of the game career. You won't care about him bringing United back to the top then, his effect will probably wear out a few years after he leaves.
>>75539983
>Bastian
>signs for Chicago Bulls
>I can still play at the top level doing it for money la
>>75540046
>Toby Alderweireld
couldn't even tell who he is. that's tottenham's level.

>>75538540
you know the winner of the europa lel goes to champions, right?

>>75540185
>that's tottenham's level.
No, that just shows you're a massive pleb.

>>75540210
I don't know him, k?
relax

>>75540055
do you actually believe that what happened today was >defensive organization in any way, shape or form? cheesus christ letting manshit players walk into your box unharmed and wait for them to slip over their own feet is not defensive organization. Just because they didnt score it doesn't mean you defended well, not even close. It was pathetic display of positioning above everything

I love Toby but I have to hop on that BBBailly hype train.

>Crazy recovery speed
>Insane jumping ability, springs like a salmon and stays in the air forever
>Unbeatable 1v1
>Ridiculously aggressive front foot defending without the usual brainless African stuff
>Ice cold on the ball

Even his positioning is good. An African defender with good positioning. It's literally never happened before. The stars have aligned to gift us the most natural defensive talent in football history.

>>75540169
he even makes the dipshit Blind look like a good defender sometimes.

You got mental illness if you don't rate bailly desu

>>75540159
>Wanyama, Dembele
Rate them all highly, same with Kante.
>Bakayoko, Fabinho
Hard to tell between those two, only seen Monaco in CL. Since ground covered stat is not available, their tackling is pretty much identical and while Bakayoko does more duels and interceptions while Fabinho does the key passing and creates chances, I'll theoretically stick to Bakayoko as the workhorse.
>Khedira doesn't cover as much distance
Who does? Khedira obviously doesn't have the physique considering age and history of being crippled, but fulfills the same role. Perhaps with more intelligence and experience
>he is only good for the counter-attacking football
Good thing that such playstyle now dominates football then, right? Look how the CL semi-finalists (Madrid's style being questionable) approach the game, how do leaders of top 5 leagues with one expection play. Possession football is dead, Barcelona being the prime example. Manure and City have the most possession in PL and they're both shit. And talking of France NT, it's no coincidence they lost to counter-attacking Portugal too. One could say they would be better of playing fast direct football with Kante instead fucking around with >poobag.
For such football (as evident by PL-winning sensation Lester and Chelsea) Kante is a key component.

>>75540164
Spurs have conceded 4 and 2 less overall than Yanited.

They're decent defensively but if you're really going to claim an adequate Bailly and his chucklefuck friends are the best defenders in the prem you are delusional customer

>>75540185
Basti had to leave because Mou wouldn't have played him. As a 32-year-old World champion it is pretty devastating to sit on the bench of the english >6th placed team, but out of loyalty he didn't move to an other european club, and out of dignity he didn't go to china, The MLS was the best choice left IMO.

>>75540296
unironically this

>>75540185
he played for atletico. belgian.

>>75540185
>current Chelsea is >mouyes' team
Honestly stopped reading there. This has been proven as fundamentally false a hundred times already and we've had a nice discussion
http://archive.4plebs.org/sp/thread/73083708/

Moortuguese are the biggest shitposters on /sp/

>>75540349
When Mourinho made Chelsea have the posession and took away the only thing they are good at, they became literraly sunderland-tier. If you thing that conte won't be exposed in the CL next year you are wrong. Counter attacking football only works if the opponent is dumb enough to let you do that. Take Chelsea as an example, and Rashford's goal against them.

I think they share the work, but Fabinho covers more distance moving the team around, and Bakayoko is more involved in the defensive work.

And tell me, do you rate Good Boy Ander?

>>75540351
Spurs have conceded 4 since March ffs 2 vs Everton, 1 vs Southampton and Swansea.

Why would you lie when we were having a reasonable and intellectual discussion? You have a mental illness friend and I will not discuss with you any further, lest you try to bamboozle me again.

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>>75540317
>>75540296
>36 million for the centreback Pogba when you already have Phil Jones warming the bench

>>75540362
he was not at the level. he played a couple of FA cup matches against championship teams and even then it was evident how slow he was moving.
for some reason bayern didn't want him back. nobody of importance (except the Bulls) did. it was a good con job, Bayern did well.

Mourinho did what any decent manager would, quietly show him the door, and spare his club a top salary to a has-been not even his lifelong Bayern was willing to sustain through his twilight years

Mouyes already turned on his players. Won't be long before he repeat another meltdown and lose the dressing room like his last days in Chelsea and Real Madrid.

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>>75540424
If Conte is going to get expossed with his counterattacks in CL and such playstyle doesn't really work, how come Juve, Monaco and Atletico are among the best 4 in Europe? Can't clasify what Real do honestly, but it's definitely not purely possession-oriented.
>Ander
Yeah, but I'm not going to praise Manure players

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>>75540532
>It's going to be different this time around s-surely
I wonder who the "snake" will be in the eyes of >mouyes' fanboys this time. Rooney probably

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>>75540489

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>>75540606

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>>75540606
>literally an upgrade + 70 million

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>>75540489
This might hurt you, but Bailly shits on your beloved Alderweireld on every stat in this little game of yours. I mean you really have problems mate. Sometimes you have good ideas and shit, but your autism against manchester united is overly weird. Just accept Bailly is a beast, nothing will break in your world.

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>>75540489
hmm

>>75540503
Show him a world-champion with exquisite work rate and mentality the door, and also show the door to one of the best CMs in england, when you have literally 4 other CMs and you intend to play 40 matches in 5 months with a 3 midfielder system. You can't make this shit up. It's fucking mental from Mourinho

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>>75540626
Hold on, Hamšík and Pogba are defensive midfielders now as your comparison suggest? Last time I checked they were playmakers... Well, are supposed to be, only of one them is

>>75540686
My sides are in orbit.

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>£100bn for a fat choker

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>>75540665
Besides the obvious flaw (per game, but it probably doesn't make such difference) you can probably guess why Alderweireld or Verthonghen don't have higher numbers in tackles and interceptions than Manure players? Comparison to Jones and Rojo is fair and square since they play in the same system, but Spurs' CB don't have to deal with shitty through balls constantly due to how their midfield is set, and can deal with opposition's offence thanks to positioning instead of going for tackles and duels constantly. As evident by
a) Fouls commited, for some reason omitted in your comparison
b) Total goals conceded
Bailly could be perceived as an improvement to what Manure already have (barely is), but he's not top 4 PL quality, let alone "beast"
>>75540687
Same applies to this, but to even larger degree.

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>>75540768
Oh we're making funny stats now, right?
>105 million for the wrong Pogba

>>75540699
>not at the level required to play
>not part of the club culture, just a literal sell-shirts guy for costumers
>contributes to nothing in the team (not even receiving treatment at the club when injured: that's not the mentality Mourinho is looking for)
showing him the door is how you deal with a situation like that. if anyone owed "respect" to Bastian was bayern. they didn't step up.
>morgan
he left because he decided to. mourinho wanted him to stay but can't force players to accept all-season bench roles and get appearances when needed
>when you have literally 4 other CMs
they're in trouble, true. but it's part of management, you just can't force players to do what they don't want, they are relatively free to manage their careers. the youngsters will need to step up, that's what the academies are for. surely fesa-mensa and tuanzeba can't be that bad.
> 3 midfielder system
sometimes it's 3. most times is 2

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>>75540919
Just how agitated are you right now? Tell us. Because you know very well how silly the chart is, you know very well you won't make me mad with that. There were times when I would bother to make an actual chart as a reply, but I've learnt that explaining something to pakis under British flag is a waste of time. The Hungarian customer is trying to justify his arguments at least

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>>75540826
Beacuse this tool is a shit and the goals conceded is literally 0 for each and every player (no I'm not stupid enough to chose the goalkeeper stat)

And as for the fouls, ha racks up the same as Vertonghen, average 1 per match

Your problem is that stats only matter if it makes your argument looks valid. Admit it already that Bailly is probably one of the best centerbacks in the world. Couldn't name three better.

>>75540874
Why are there people who keep defending a badly managed autumn and these fucked up decisions? I'm most of the times pro Mourinho, as he gets shit done, and you can see United improving, but this whole thing is so fucked up about the midfield. If Pogba is not ready for sunday, and Herrera/Carrick would like to get some rest the literal options to play there are Rooney, Blind and Matty Willock. That's just insane.

>>75541033
Just how agitated are you right now? Tell us. Because you know very well how silly the chart is, you know very well you won't make me mad with that. There were times when I would bother to make an actual chart as a reply, but I've learnt that explaining something to autistic jeep fc customers under Slovak flag is a waste of time. The Hungarian customer is trying to justify his arguments at least

>>75541197
I'm not even a customer mate. Hungarians are poorfags, we don't get to be customers.

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>>75540850

>>75541115
How many clean sheets? A keeper with a shit defence will have to make more saves per game than one with Juve's defence.

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>>75541090
>fouls... the same
Wrong naturally, why else would I bother to bring it up. Bailly is at 0.99 p/90, while Vert and Alder are at 0.73 and 0.29 (!) p/90 respectively. That's 26% and 70% difference in likelihood of commiting a foul. What really got my attention though
>Bailly is probably one of the best centerbacks in the world
Is this a serious claim?

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>>75541197
Agitated quite a lot, I see

>>75541157
>and you can see United improving
you can?
compared to LvG's era they still play boring predictable and ineffective football, they're still around the same place in the PL and statwise I think they have scored even less goals than LvG's team
the only positive is the high chance United have to win the Europa League

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>>75541090
>Couldn't name three better.

>>75540919
> Mario Gomez
> Wolfsburg are 14th

HOLY FUCK what happened.....a big club should sign Ricardo Rodriguez before he goes to Milan. City/Barca could use him can't believe Wolfsburg have gone to shit after KdB and the Croats left.

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>>75541302
>Van Laal, first season, matchweek 33
>59 goals scored, 3rd in table
>mouyes, first season, matchweek 33
>50 goals scored, 5th in table

>>75541289
Ah so you were agitated when you posted that essay

>>75541266
p90 is the wrong method to use, it gives you more of a players character if you show a /game metric. This way you won't run into idiotic comparisations like the Khedira one here.
0.9 foul/ game and 0,75 foul/ game means that Bailly makes 18 fouls in 20 games, and Vertonghen makes 15 fouls in 20 games. That's not a big difference. Vertonghen makes fewer, but his contribution is lower as well. And well, since the Bailly-Rojo wall became the no1. somewhere around january United conceded 4 league goals, while tottenham conceded 15, so that means that the Rojo-Bailly pairup is better than the Alderweireld-Vertonghen

>>75541302
LVG relied on De Gea saving his arse every game. The team would barely create 1 chance per game, and get sliced open by a counter attack at almost every opportunity. LVG did relatively well against the big clubs, but if he were still at United this season I highly doubt he could replicate it.

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>>75541394
well, yeah

>>75541302
I don't know I saw some fast counter-attacks and direct plays for them, not just the meme possesion-hording, and also the defense improved a lot, especially in the last 4 months. With van Gaal I didn't see a future for United, with Mouyes... who know, only the future can tell.

>>75541331
Name just 3, who are inarguably better and have 14-15 years left on their career.

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>>75541476

Herrera is literally a GOAT though. Problem is all the forwards have been utter shit

>>75541516
this tbqh. Probably the best player in their full squad

>>75541157
I'm giving you the arguments. they sound reasonable to me
>Rooney, Blind and Matty Willock
Rooney is a good idea. he's played there before. Nice. Timoty fosa mensha also does midfield. The world is not perfect, they'll survive.
Part of Mourinho's philosophy and interpretation of the game is to create fighters and a fighting spirit. these little problems that are bound to happen and the team has no other option than go through them ends up helping a lot.
So far, he's recovered literal fan-despised players in Fellaini, Young, Darmian, Rojo and made them important. Herrera has also been made into a fighter. You can't imagine the psychological effect making those former fringe players feel important for the team has, they'll do anything for the team.

>>75541415
Obviously it's the only correct method to use, how are full games and 30 minute sub appearances even remotely equal statistically? You also got the numbers wrong (on purpose I believe, but that doesn't matter). The fault in the Khedira comparison is somewhere else entirely, no reason to bother with butthurt paki who got bullied out of his senses.
>since the Bailly-Rojo wall became the no1. somewhere around january United conceded 4 league goals
Seems more like 5 since early February, either way it's fairly impressive. However this is more due down to >mouyes' tactical approach of not losing at any cost, look at the impotent draws against Hull, Bournemouth or West Brom in that time, and compare the point gain and goals scored of Spurs meanwhile. Playing for a team that puts defence above anything else doesn't necessarily make you a better defender.

>>75541605
Rooney was a shit midfielder from day one. Like a hairless short Fellaini. Horrible first touch, horrible technique, horrible decision-making, and extremely slow. Only thing he is good at are the hoofballs to Valencia.

Timothy Fosu-Mensah (written correctly) is out for a few weeks with a dislocated shoulder, so no, he is not an option.

>they'll survive
barely. With second tier options. If >mouyes keeped one of his topclass CMs and if he would have taken away his pride, United wouldn't be in a pile of shit. It is interesting to see when will Herreras or Pogbas season end with a tear in their legs. I reckon soon, and then you will understand what the fuck I'm going on about.

Fellaini is utter bullshit. If you pour chocolate cream on dogshit it still stays dogshit. The fact that a fellaini-tier player can be a starter for United is the main reason that they are choking to get p4 when they could easily be p2.

But an other riddle: if he knew he has a lot of matches, if he new that the schs were leaving, why didn't he bring someone in? To play 30 minutes instead of making Herrera and Pogba dead in 99% of the matches?

>>75541690
use the totals. that's the only way to measure what a player gives to the team
> Playing for a team that puts defence above anything else doesn't necessarily make you a better defender.
>t. juventus costumer

>>75541690
how can you compare a 9 x 10 minutes subtitutes stats to a 90 minutes starters? You can't that's why all the statistic matrixes failures and liars. The best method, the best you can get is if you opt for the /game metrics. IF the player is not good enough to play full 90 minutes what's the point in comparing to a starter? Solskjaer would've been a goat in your statistic system with his 30 minutes run-ins. Maybe even better stats would pop up by his name then by any other strikers in the world, but that would've been a big fat lie. See? Or you agree that Rani Khedira is totally better and superior to Sami?

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>>75541476
Pogba is completely useless in Manure midfield, we've known this for some time now. There's Mata for creativity up front (ofcourse >mouyes being a clueless burnout barely used him when he was fit), Herrera who is a box-to-box and Carrick for calm defensive presence and accurate distribution. But just imagine >mouyes trying to drop the dabbing flop if there wasn't an excuse like an injury, Woodward would bust his balls

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>>75541768
And yet you can notice in stats above that Juve defenders aren't as busy as Manure ones in chart somewhere above. There's a difference between careful direct football (completely BTFOing Barca in Turin, with four times the chances) and bus parking (what they did at Camp Nou), but they've earned that bus parking. And even then they had four shots on target, compared to Barcelona's 1 - one.

>>75541909
I mean Mata played 22 PL matches before his injury, so Mou pretty much played him.

And as for Pogba, he is the best option now to pair up with based Ander.

>>IF<< they manage to get a decent Holder to unleash Pogba's creativity and pull some weight off Ander's shoulders, and they also bring an all-rounder in, Pogba could be a really useful addition to that midfield. Maybe not the best ever, but definitely one of the best in the league.

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>>75542025
>Juventus plays against strong teams exactly like Mourinho, dominating and creating lots of chances at home, and away parking the bus and grinding results, yet I'll still claim >mouyes is finished and Juve-way is the future because I'm slovakbro la
k.

>>75541841
>Khediras
Intended to ignore the buttblasted paki nonsense earlier, but since you insist on brining it up here's an actual chart. Obviously it's nonsense since Rani play barely above 100 minutes, but have you seen me or anyone else making comparisons between players with such difference in playing times seriously? Same with your 9 x 10 minutes subtitutes, it's an extreme case. Per game comparison doesn't make any sense, if you dislike the p/90 for some ridiculous reason just go all in and make it totals, but you better pick the players who never leave the pitch. You could argue p/90 flawed because of impact subs, but it's the best option there is. And it's not like we were discussing impact strikers ITT anyway

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>>75542260
Forgot pic

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>>75540159
>an unironically goat post from hungary

what happened with the world

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>>75542048
1385 minutes out of more than 2000 with extra times included, see the difference between total number of appearances and minutes now? Games alone suggest he's key starter, while just checking the playing time without any additional stats says otherwise.
>Poobag
Hold up, so you're saying they need to bring TWO more midfielders to make him look decent?

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>>75542260
The point is that these comparisions only have legitimity in context, which the squawka matrix clearly doesn't give. As for the 90 metrics. What if you have a good player who dies every 60 minutes. He only plays 2/3 of every matches, gives all to it and then leaves the pitch. It's unfair to compare him to a hardworker who plays 90 minutes. I mean I get it why some people prefer p90 but as far as I'm concerned the /game metrics give a closer picture and a less "cheating" overall

>>75542319
I try my best m8, thanks

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>>75542235
Juve parked the bus against fucking Barcelona, with 3 goal lead from home fixure and had 4 shots on target. In a crucial CL match.
Mouyes parked the bus against City (knocked out of CL by Monaco), with 1 shot on target. In a league fixture.
Spot the difference

>>75542567
the difference is that Juve plays in a meme league. literally no rivals. United still hasn't established league dominance. it will take some time.
United-City in the PL is the literal equivalent to Juve-Barça in the CL

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>>75542551
>What if you have a good player who dies every 60 minutes
Well, then it obviously depends on just how good those 60 minutes were. If he can GOAT it up in that time, I'm sure manager will gladly sacrifice one sub instead of having a mediocre guy in for full match. The point of p/90 display is that you can clearly judge the impact player has in his dedicated time. It would be very flawed for someone like Giroud who used to be brought on for last 10 minutes, but again we're talking about extreme cases here. Neither Bailly, Alderweireld, Sami Khedira or hugely popular Pogba (compared constantly) are used in such manner.

>>75539804
>>75539948
>>75540033
>>75540159
>>75540349
>>75540424
>>75540562
Good posts that contribute to discussion

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>>75542664
Can't wait for the Manure dominance orchestrated by >mouyes. Next season already? What do you reckon

>>75542441
He started 16 and came on as a sub 6 times, played 1385 averaging 63 minutes on these games. And well he has 38 matches overall in all competitions, 31 out of them as a starter, so you couldn't say mou didn't use him as a regular.

I say they have to bring in AT LEAST two more midfielders to have a midfield at all.

Carrick is like 89 years old, and Fellaini is literal hungarian second league tier. Ander is based, and Pogba seemed good on his last games, but two of them won't be enough for the domestic + european run. Out of Uniteds 56 matches, he missed 15, with this current injury and out of the remaining 41 he played on 38. That's pretty regular

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>>75542784
Cheers pal

>>75542765
answer this

>The point is that these comparisions only have legitimity in context, which the squawka matrix clearly doesn't give.

>>75542850
I think they will be strong contenders. Their defence won't be weaker, and if they manage to imrpove their finishing, they will easily be on the podium. They will be above City. As for Chelsea I am not sure, as they will struggle in the two front run with such a thin roaster. Maybe next year will be Tottenhams year.

>>75542664
>no rivals
Juve wouldnt have any rivals in the EPL as well which by the way would quite comfortably be won by Sarri's Napoli or Roma. And regarding Moorinho he is not finished, he is more than that, he's a dead body on the sideline way beyond the point of no return.

>>75542877
I fucked it up a little, the last sentence should have gone to the Mata part, but I think you guys get the point.

>>75542784
glad you had fun reading them m8

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>>75542994
I mean come on, you could come up with something clearly original, don't be an assliker.

Why are ABUs here are so repetitive and boring? I get it you hate United, but meh, you are just literally copypasting the slovakbros ideas and try to make people mad. Does that ever work? Where is the german creativity? I'm really disappointed in you.

>>75542877
Player like Mata should be a key component, not being brought on and off without assurance. And he always had fairly good impact when he was on, by far the most creativity in Manure's squad since Pogba is worse at key passing than Spurs' very own non-dabbing Pogba. Remember how good he was before >mouyes came to Chelsea and shipped him off? Player of The Year, if I recall correctly. He could be Manure's only undoubtedly elite player now that De Gay isn't what he used to be and Herrera's form only picked up recently. I doubt >mouyes will allow him to flourish though, wouldn't be surprised if he was sold this summer to make room for Griezmeme or someone.
By the way just checked Mata's positions and it seems he played more time on the right wing than as a #10? See this is exactly what I'm talking about, he's their best playmaker and >mouyes uses him as a fucking inside forward. He doesn't want him

>>75542850
they'll win next season. dominance is a thing established over a long period. I'd say 5PLs in 10 years.

>>75543221
don't need to be creative if you're right
have you been in coma when ranieri won the league?

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>>75542946
That's why I'm always discussing the chart I made, either in replies to it or directly in the post. Ask me why these players were chosen to compare, or why these particular stats categories were picked and I'll have an explanation. What you see in this thread is just butthurt paki desperate to come up with some way to get back at ABUs, not a real stat discussion on his part.

>>75543300
>sends Mata away
>wins League
>somehow a bad decision
>Mata goes to United.
>United a top 7 team, no better
you need to work harder in your bait. he's a good player. but if you want to win, you can't give him a key role player. He's a key player in an Arsenal or Everton. Or a struggling United.

>>75542994
While Juve would clearly dominate, no doubt about that, I wouldn't be so certain about Napoli or Roma. They are Spurs quality, in Napoli's case the offence is among the Europe's elite but their defence is trash.
>>75543221
How is he wrong though? There are about 3 players in entire EPL who would be starters for Juventus

>>75543300
He played all the Europa mathces when he was fit, and that was clearly the more important series from day 1, if I recall it correctly. Key-Passing is quite an uninportant stat when your teams endgame is Zlatan. And Pogba gave a lot of wonderful passes to Zlatan, who fucked up most of them. That's the key in Uniteds underperforming this year. The many missed chances. Paul hit the woodwork like 10-12 times already. That's a lot. Maybe only KDB has more woodworks than him. Herrera's form has been top class since Mourinho realized he is the best midfielder in the PL, circa around september.

Mata played as a right-wing kinda, but he had a free role so he roamed inside a lot. I don't think Mou will sell him, he is a fan favourite, and he found the connection finally, and he knows how to use Juanito now. And as far as the no10 role go, they have Rooney, Mikhitaryan, Mata, Lingard (pereira, januzaj), but because of Zlatan, they are forced to play this amorf 4-3-3, without a real playmaker, so Mikhi and Mata are offen used as wingers. Today would have been different, with Henrikh in a false 9-ish, 10-ish role, but without Pogba (with Fellaini) it is impossible to play anything else than hoofball. Again, sadly. I don't even know why I keep watching football on television. It's either refball or shitty meme teams. Meh.

>>75542991
Highly optimistic tier
>>75543338
Simply >mouyesbro tier

>>75543386
Have you been in a coma when he was fired, because he almost got relegated?

>>75543718
And there would be like 3 from Juventus who would be starters for any top6 PL teams (bar Liverpool and Arsenal). Not beacuse they are shit players on either sides, but there are different demands en each leagues. Maybe the only player I'd poach from Juventus would be Marchisio if he was younger and less injury-prone.

>>75543989
a lot will depend on if they will go for marquee big money signings or they will try to fix the goddamn holes in the squad for once. I hope the second, it would be nice to see a head-to-head run for the Pl between 4-5 teams until the very end.

>>75539865
last season new castle beat tottenham 5-1 when newcastle was already relegated and tottenham was still in the title race

>drawchester drawnited

>>75543619
>sends Chelsea's best player away
>wins league, whole squad immedialy collapses and nearly dies of cancer right after
>Mata's confidence and qualities take a huge step back, playing for stagnating Manure
>mouyes comes and doesn't give him playing time in natural position, even though he's clearly still their best creative playeer
>n-not good enough la

>>75540033
Funny how everyone you brought up knows what to do with the ball, unlike Kante.

>>75544114
And liverpool tends to choke against small teams this year.

Arsenal will be out of the race on sunday.

It will interesting to see which 3 are going to stay in the top4. I hope Pool and City, with United winning the EL. It would be fun to see how far the 5 meme teams with their meme managers could go in the CL next year.

>>75544211
Mata was at his best as an inverted winger at Chelsea desu

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>>75544267
Great argument, Kaiser.

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>>75544114

That was great fun, thanks for reminding me.
Also this gives me a warm feeling in my tummy

>>75543802
>clearly the more important series from day 1, if I recall it correctly
Hardly so, it only became crucial after it was clear that Manure will struggle for Top 4 in PL. Which was soon enough either way.
You're hugely overestimating Pogba's "wonderful passes", because that's what he's all about. All flash, no effectivity and the reason why Juve off-loaded him for cash instead of keeping him to challenge CL. His occassional thorugh balls might look good, but actual playmakers make far more crucial passing that isn't so noticeable. We don't have to even discuss his shooting, he's by far the worst in the whole league at that with 88 attempts and 4 goals, simply embarrassing.
>Rooney, Mikhitaryan, Lingard
None of which have remotely Mata's quality, Mkhi for example is a glorified basic right winger with solid technique but not playmaker's vision. The 4-3-3 argument sort of makes sense though, it's what PSG used as well under Blanc when Zlatan scored shitload in >Ligue 1.

>>75544211
>best player
>is sent away, team passes from struggling years to clear winner
>best player
No. Hazard was their best player. Mourinho did a Mourinho by identifying that. He then brought Costa to be the second key player. mata had no role there besides important player, he left. those are career decisions, some people want to be key players in 2nd tier teams, others don't mind to help out in winning teams.
Mata made his move. Still not a champion to Mourinho's 8 titles. He will be next season if he accepts the Káká role to the armenian or whoever comes next if Mourinho gives up on mihki.

>>75544555
>Juve Off-loaded him
more like Pogba left Juve in shit. That's why you are so after him right? You feel betrayed. Don't be, betrayal is kind of his thing, just ask the United fans.
Mikhi is a faster and more technically gifted Mata, but he is no winger either. He struggled on the wings at Dortmund under Klopp as a traditional Winger. He is better off behind the striker, where he has space to create.

I just don't get why did josé think that 4 midfielders will be enough until the end of the season. Pogba and Herrera will start playing worse from now on, maybe drastically, until they get injured. They played almst every game in the last 8 months. That's just unprofessional from Mourinho. He sucks at man management again. No wonder.

>>75544704
Mourinho rated Oscar over Mata
>oscar
>over mata

I just couldn't even then, and I can't even now. That's just insane

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>>75544000
>there would be like 3 from Juventus who would be starters for any top6 PL teams
My sides. There's a reason why Juve are in CL semis while PL's best team was fucking Lester, knocked out in quarters. It's not that PL has some super demanding requirements on its players so Italian or Spanish can't adapt, it's that legitimate talent simply doesn't play there with a few exceptions. Take Manure for example, you can immediately scrap their entirely starting XI and replace them with Juventus players. Mata might look better than Khedira, but it's highly questionable since the latter is a WC winner with huge experience in all competitions. The only players from that league who would definitely be an improvement are Hazard/Sanchez instead of Cuadrado/Mandzukic, and Kante instead of Khedira. For Wanyama or Dembele, the same argument as in Herrera's case applies

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>>75544704
As already pointed out to you, Hazard wasn't Mata's replacement, Oscar was. I don't need to remind you where he's playing now

>>75544805
Juve fans disliked Pogba leaving because of his marketing potential. As a crucial player, not so much.

>>75544893
>Mata might look better than Khedira
*Herrera

>>75544875
same. oscar is at the skill level where I even wonder how he's a professional player. normal game for him is lose the ball 15 times, win it back with a good tackle 5 times, score a blooter every 5-10 games. selling him for 70 million was the best deal they couldve made

>>75544875
No, that's not correct. Mata didn't get what he wanted, which was key role (like Zlatan and Pogba this season), which were given to Hazard and Costa. He'd have to fight with Oscar, Willian and whoever was there, for a position, performance-based. That's how you win.

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>>75544805
>Y-yeah we DON'T want to sell him at any price he's that good, but maybe if your offer 105 million...
>let us just sign improvement for 30 million first
Come on now, the "Juve fans miss Pogba so badly" might have seemed legitimate back in summer, but even pakis themsevles realize just how scammed they got

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>>75544982
Juve can't into marketing either way, have you seen the new logo? So his value in that regard wasn't very high for them, Manure with their elite PR merchandising techniques have far better use of a clown of Pogba's calibre

>>75544981
you're confused (or pretending to be) about the language. we're talking about key roles here. read >>75545038

>>75544893
The english weather, food, pitches and lifestyle are sometimes too much for players too handle, and the italian is sometimes too friendly, so your argument is not true. Adriano maybe wouldn't have gone a useless fat prick in england, and Di Maria a little bitch in Italy. Take Manchester United for an example, I don't think that the Chiellini-Barzaghi-Bonucci defence would be good if you inspect them one-by-one they have a good chemistry together, but he italian defenders alone usually get exposed in england (ranocchia, ogbonna), so no thanks. Herrera is better than khedira, Pogba is more built for the english football than Pjanic, however I could see him as the third player on the midfield. The United Wingers are arguably better. Sooo so far only Pjanic (and a fit, injuryless Marchisio) would get in. And if we'd need another young striker than maybe Dybala, but that's all. As for the other way around: De Gea, Herrera, Darmian would all be good fits to Juventus, and maybe even Rashford/Martial/Mkhitaryan, so that kinda equals the tally.

It is hard to adress, I know, but again if United wanted to play catenaccio, then Rugani would be a clever singing, but as they clearly don't there is no need for such a defender.

But hell, you don't need such a good squad anyways as you play 22 league matches against part time plumbers and betting cheaters. And of course Ibra would still dominate the shit out of the Serie A, if he wouldn't be dead. RIP

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>>75545027
no this time Jaroslav! Herrera is not a WC winner, and doesn't have a huge experience in all competitions.

Caught you telling a lie! Apologize!

>>75538526

This is true la

>>75545354
The fuck you talking about, Ranocchia has never been this good and Ogbonna has been a starter for years

What a delusional post

>>75545135
Read my comment again. I asked if you felt betrayed, not that you missed him, that's totally diferrent.

>manure will go unbeaten all 38 games in the PL next season
>they will still end up in 6th

Screencap this.

>>75545573
Hull concedes 15 goals in 8 mathces.
>B-But ranocchia is in the form of his life
If that's his top form he is literally Roberth Huth tier.
Great potential, shit end product

Ogbonna is a starter yes. Does that make him good? Fellaini is a starter. Walcott is a starter. Emre Can is a starter. See my point?

>>75545798
Yes he's always been shit, but according to you he's got "exposed", and this is somehow part of a trend of italian defenders getting exposed in englel that only exist in your mind
Ogbonna is shit too and yet he's managed to be a starter for years despite that, even though he was shit in Italy

Not to mention the whole other storm of delusion in your post, you never watched a match of Serie A and still you dare to make such presumptous statements full of a sense of superiority that comes from God knows where

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>>75545354
Pretty much this >>75545573 , what a strange post you just made. Even attacking rejects from Napoli (Gabbiadini) are performing at a much higher level than they did in Serie A. Claiming BBC backline is only suited for Italian football is complete nonsense as well, as evident by their European performances. Spurs, PL's best defence, couldn't even make it out of the group stages. Those players are on completely different level than whatever fuckers Manure have and yeah I'm counting """The Beast""" Bailly. Same goes for wingbacks Alves and Alex Sandro (legitimately top 3 in the world), Darmian was a Torino player for a reason. Shaw, Blind? Come on. Mandzukic offers about as many goals on the wing as Martial does, except his primary job is marking the opposition's flank and he excels at that, so he would a huge improvement for Manure. I don't think we need to seriously compare Dybala or Higuain to Trashford, Pooney or Mkhitaryan. And lets address the elephant in the room, yes Pjanic is obviously better than Pogba right now. Dabman *could* improve, but we've been through this a hundred times, he's too simple in his head to become elite playmaker, let alone world class. De Gea might have better reflexes than Buffon, but his form stagnating rapidly compared to previous two seasons and his positioning can't be relied upon. Plus Gigi is a leader, something Manure desperately lack.
>Ibra
Even in his prime at Inter and Milan he didn't come close to Higuain's Serie A goal record.

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>>75545471
Obivously refering to Khedira lad

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This is all I see since I blocked that autistic Slovakian fuck. Why hasn't he been euthanized?

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>>75545581
Sort of, but only because I saw the "Manure" part of headline first. Half a second later when I got to the transfer fee, I knew /sp/ will be a lot of fun in comming months. Poor guy was never going to come close to such value, especially if you've been watching him regulary in Italy.

>>75546620
how do you filter flags? appchan x is installed

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>>75545038
>>75545296
Clearly a bad judgement of player's capability then. Sure he won the league, but perhaps everything wouldn't fall apart for >mouyes when Hazard struggled with fitness in 15/16 season had Mata still been there. Because Hazard being hopelessly out of form was one of the major contributors to >mouyes' mental breakdown. If only there was some other creative player available and you could bench Hazard, hm... Oh, but there's Oscar, right

>>75546874
I think it's about Mata's style of play. He's a quality creative player. Not fit to counter attacking style which is what Mourinho designed for Chelsea.
He has been more useful for United, who is being designed to play more time in possession (at least 1st halves in Old Trafford), role in which Mata is good. He'll never be key, though, lacks the world class talent.

Sleep well, Švejk

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>>75548248
Night night >mouyesbro

>>75541909
They can't bench pogba now, he sells to many shirts and had his own emoji for fucks sake it would make the entire united company look like clowns.

>>75538718
>implying they won't lose the final to lyon with a shitty memphis depay goal

>>75553616
>Implying Memphis can play in the EL for Lyon this season
Deluded

>>75540159
>Not a customer
>Herrera a complete midfielder
Come on,I mean he's a good player and all,but he's a Man-U tier player at best.

Big Sam better tbqh

>>75538526
my shit last night was pretty solid

>>75540850
jesus Poogba is literal dogshit

>>75553616
>memepiss is going to be the first player to play for 2 teams in yurop in teh same season

Hokay blackie

>>75540159
Ketia from RB Leipzig is the complete package. Everything you'd want in a midfielder.

>>75540238
Do you actually believe it is like this every game? Man Utd have been pretty comfortable in most matches.

>>75540665
>be part of a back 6
>comfortably guess shit that will happen because numbers lol

bailly is a great player for sitting deep but he's shit in every other aspect

>>75538680

>no pogba, ibra, or the 3 guys that would be playing alongside bailly in central defense as well as a late red card for Fellaini
>all City can do is draw at home against this

the only thing that will stop United from CL is injuries