>his football doesn't have such a deep intellectual ideological

> Cappa
The primordial choker. It's like Cúper had been possessed by Ballack's spirit and tried to go forward in time but failed as usual and went back in time.

>>75195413
Also a pedant bordering Valdano's levels of faux prolixity.

>>75190924
Pretty sure Larry David is a liberal

Get that political shit put and put fancy on the left and functional on the right side

>>75190924
this 'ideological rivalry' is literally a meme

>>75190924
Style matters more than results? What kind of retarded nonsense is this stupid yuropoor sport?

>>75195769
It's poorly phrased, but it means "play well and the results will come naturally".

>>75195808
As opposed to?

where does Bauza fit on this scale

>>75195825
as opposed to defend well and be clinical that we will win 1-0

>>75195857
I don't see how "playing well" and "defending well" are mutually exclusive

>>75195857
this and using dirty tactics, like murderball, antigame stuff

¿Bielsa no era de izquierda?

>>75195895
Check your flag.

>>75195832
Bauza is Bilardist, while someone like Tite is Menottist.

>>75195769
i think he means more 'your system' like the patriots or the spurs. commit to your style, to how you intend to win, and never waver regardless of whether you win right away or not, or you are hitting rough spots. stick to your philosophy and find players that fit and buy in, regardless if they are the best talents.

File: 100cia1.jpg (6KB, 211x240px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 211x240px

Is it true that every great argentine manager is from boca?

>>75195895
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be6QHHvsgNY
something like this match with less luck involved


Think like the Detroits in 89-90, they were never a stylish team or a high creativy team, but because they defended well and had a good team cohesion, plus murderball, they managed to win back to back

>>75195955
check your flag's crime rates

>>75195977
>>75196001
I still don't get it. The closest comparison I can think of is like how a few baseball teams like the Phillies and Braves refuse to rely on advanced statistics and stick with personal scouting, but even that is mostly in regards to team building not play strategy, once you have the players you want you just let them play

Maybe it's just because my main sport is baseball but the idea that there's not a more efficient way to play kind of sounds like baloney invented by purists who refuse to adopt modern playing styles, and not a legitimate ideological conflict

>>75195966
this doesn't make sense, bauza played with 4 and even 5 strikers in argentina, also tite's pressing and set pieces are not the likes of a menottist, this is just argie bullshit

>>75195994
couln't name a single one to be honest

bianchi's from vélez, basile from rasing, menotti from central, bielsa from newell's, simeone, cappa and sampaoli river, bilardo estudiantes

>>75196238
it's not even about that, every one should commit to a playing style that guarantees fun and pleasure for the viewer no matter what, every team that does not meet this impossible criteria is disregarded as antifootball by some elitist faggots

>>75196238
you dumb mate? or you are just trying to be an elitist because you watch the "so different " cultured baseball while the rest of common people watch nfl or basketball?


Sometimes when you defend well, trim down ego of their players and convince everyone to act as a collective you got a result, sometimes when you do the opposite and let the individual creativy you got a better result, or not, it is not black or white and depends on what type of person you and your players are

>>75196238
It's not complex. Menotti's philosophy whould be something like "play beautifully and the victories will come naturally". That would be the Barcelona way of playing: lots of passes, control and creativity. Bilardo's way would be football with rigid tactics: simply put, get the ball away from your goal at all costs while trying to score in the meantime.

>>75196313
Tite used to suck Menotti's dick all the time. Bauza was pretty much Bilardo 2.0 when training San Lorenzo.

For clueless europeans, you can compare them to Guardiola and Mourinho

>>75196382
>elitist because you watch the "so different " cultured baseball

Nobody actually thinks that way about baseball in america, that's how hipsters think about soccer

>>75196385
>simply put, get the ball away from your goal at all costs while trying to score in the meantime

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding but how is this not the goal for every team, every game.

>>75196483
>at all costs
>all
>fucking
>costs

>>75196524
Again, how is this not the goal

If a manager of an america team said "we don't try to win at all costs" they would be laughed at and fired and never work in any competitive thing again

Unless by "all costs" you mean breaking the law

>>75196563
>by "all costs" you mean breaking the law
Now you're finally thinking. I'm done.

>>75196563
>Unless by "all costs" you mean breaking the law
It does

A true Menottists wouldn't celebrate Maradona's handgoal vs England. Bilardo loved it

>>75196447
mennotist doesn't even mean to play like menotti, it's all about talking and not really a playing style, no competent manager can commit to that and be succesful, not even menotti who played borderline murderball in 1978.
bauza got lost in the way

>>75196483
because each team is different, some teams like to pass around, set the pace, tire down the opposition , others prefer to get a quick offense, with 2-3 touches at the ball at most.

if you really care about it try to watch the barcelona vs juventus match, they are very different teams, there were moments where Mandzukic went all the way back to defend, while Neymar/Messi didn't once in the entire match.
Like i said, it is not black or white, sometimes something works and sometimes they don't

>>75196628
>>75196635
What laws can soccer managers even break? Other than doping which every sport does

>>75196676
Faking injuries, diving, waste time, scoring hand goals, try to hit the opponent as much as you can't when the ref isn't watching, etc

Playing as dirty as you need to win

>>75196719
Nigga I meant actual laws, of course they're gonna stretch the rules, every team does that

File: ca3b6cf3c442463b9cf6e5ada5ff3e14[1].jpg (40KB, 500x653px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 500x653px

>>75196676
kidnapping and threatening Cruyff to not show up in the world cup

>>75196762
Not that much, it's more like "winning even if it hurts to watch the team play", playing anti-football tactics, defending with 11 men once you score 1 goal, playing gay tactics like offside trap, focusing more in defense than attack, focusing more in dead balls than passing plays, etc

>>75196846
you shouldn't even reply to him, the only sport he watches is baseball where the only strategy is going up picking a bat and swinging, if you manage to hit you run a little bit

>>75196661
That makes sense, but I don't see how that constitutes an ideological difference, like why would passing more be considered more "beautiful" then playing defending more heavily?

>>75196846
>playing anti-football tactics

See, this kind of thing just sounds like the baseball GMs who would say "we trust statistics, but we also trust our eyes"

And why would it every hurt to watch your team win?

>>75196765
he was great in Perfect Strangers

>>75196975
I think this semen slurping sport might not be for you. Stick to Baseball or Handegg.
Ameridoops will never grasp The Beautiful Game™

>>75196975
>That makes sense, but I don't see how that constitutes an ideological difference, like why would passing more be considered more "beautiful" then playing defending more heavily?


It is subjective, for example i am a corinthians supporter, and i would rather take a 1-0 hard win over a 5-4 win with a lot of beatiful goals and stuff like that anytime.

some countries have an ideology like that, or individual clubs, Italy for example have the fame of being a very defensive nation with a good team structure.It is a cultural thing at the end of day.

But if you are a casual i think watching a team with high chemistry, a lot of team goals etc it is more impressive than watching a team scoring from corners all the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnoz4NuYMU8

Mexico/Mexican league has Lavolpismo and Lapuentismo. But it's just a bastardization of Menottismo and Bilardismo.

File: celso roth.jpg (127KB, 700x525px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 700x525px

Who /celsoroth/ here?

>play weird and stupid defensive systems
>make stupid decisions during the game
>blame the team if you lose
>calls supporters stupid for disliking your methods

>>75196975
>why would passing more be considered more "beautiful" then playing defending more heavily?
Because the mass media pushed the meme that sideways passing is the most beautiful way of playing football during the last decade and casual followers fell for it

>>75195582
ironically, it's not bullshit

the political ideologies of all those coaches align perfectly

there's a correlation between political ideology and football ideology in Argentina

>>75195769
>>75195808
nonono

Menotti is literally an extremist

He says that losing and playing beautifully is better because football is supposed to be poetry and all kinds of things like that

No joke. He says things like if people care about results they should look at spreadsheets and not the game.

we have two different schools in Italy too
the more traditional one, started by Rocco* and carried on by the likes of Capello and Trapattoni and nowadays Allegri, which focuses hard on results and cares very little about style
basically, catenaccio

the Sacchi school, heavily influenced by Dutch total football, whose most prominent are Zeman and now Sarri

needless to say the first has been immensly more successful and is by far the dominant one here

*fun quote by Rocco: ahead of many matches, when a journalist said to him the usual prematch formula "may the best team win" he answered "damn, i hope not"

>>75198555
doesn't allegri have 100x more style than any eplel managers

File: 113[1].jpg (113KB, 956x500px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 956x500px

who /anarchist/ here

>owe millions to some casino
>don't care about your job just keep hopping from team to team and getting fired in 3 months
>going on TV just to say Pepe Guardiola is a fraud and every coach copied him
>talk shit to the reporters

> No pekerman
> No poch

Shit list desu

File: confused black gentleman.png (298KB, 600x512px) Image search: [Google]

298KB, 600x512px

>>75190924
Can someone please fucking explain to me why style would EVER matter more than results?

Take Mourinho for example (and ignore the fact that he is currently shite with Man U).

When he was winning at Chelsea people would say "but his football is ugly! It's boring to watch! They just park the bus!"

...so? You're literally just jealous that they're winning and you're not.

Sure as fans we all want to watch exciting football, but as a manger, if you prioritise "beautiful football" above winning, then you're a fucking idiot.

File: osorio-seeccion-mexicana[1].jpg (2MB, 4500x3088px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4500x3088px

>>75199485
What's his style?

>>75199659
Things I have literally heard them say:

>it's a game bro, if you don't allow yourself to enjoy a game then you are living wrong

>football is poetry, it's for the enjoyment of the people, it's a work of art

>this is the football that people love, winning playing ugly is meaningless

>>75199485
>pekerman
center-left

>poch
he says he isn't argentinian anymore :^)

>>75199659
You've been fooled by a taringuero m8 (spic reddit users)

Style over results is not necessarily good football. Mourinho bus parking is still an style. Style over results advocates to not let a game outcome to be the final verdict of your style. If your team was "better" then you should work in the aspects that failed ("only care about your team") to go further. You can't always rely on the results, if you do so you are like a dog chasing his tail, since there is so many things that can go wrong (for both sides) in a football game.

This bilardism vs menottism is just a journalism invention (that was encouraged just because Bilardo and Menotti really hate each other) and a travesty to what they actually believed.

>>75199950
>hurr le evil journalism invented it

the divide is real as fuck

and the quotes are literal

>>75196975
>And why would it every hurt to watch your team win?
You must understand that the "anti-football" allegation is usually made by jealous fans of opposing teams to the one that is successful.

Jose Mourinho and Jurgen Klopp are probably two good examples of opposing philosophies.

Mourinho wants to win at all costs. People accuse him of playing boring football because he parks the bus a lot.

Klopp's famous meme is "gegenpressing" which basically means "always pressing / attacking". He always says he likes "rock and roll" football, very attacking football, and that he cares about putting on a show for the fans.

I guess it is a bit odd because Klopp could think to himself "why the fuck do I care what the fans think, I just need to win if I want to keep my job" - BUT, I think Klopp has developed this style because it has brought him success, and that's why he sticks with it. I think he thinks that the crowd's support, for example, is key to success, and when you play attacking and exciting football, the crowd get amped up, and they passionately support the players, which spurs them on.

So yeah I guess it's just different styles that managers have developed in order to be successful. If Klopp had won lots of matches with a colder, more cynical, more defensive style of play then he would probably employ that. I am guessing that he uses his attacking style because that's what gave him his greatest successes - Dortmund, where he's had his biggest successes, is a team with a very passionate, dedicated fanbase. Arguably Chelsea (where Mourinho managed) is less dedicated; lots of Chelsea supporters are rich twats who aren't dedicated at all. So that might be why Klopp relies on a style that involves the crowd more, in order to spur the players' performances. Purely because that's what has given him the most success.

>>75200000
do you understand what a travesty is mr quints?

>>75199659
If you play good you won't lose too much desu
Become anal about results and you eventually become england

>>75200069
You know what's the real meme? This attempt to deny that such a thing exists is the real meme.
>le we have evolved past that silly dichotomy!
No we did not. Simeone is proud of Bilardo and Sampaoli is proud of Menotti and highly dislikes Bilardo

>>75199771
Exactly, this stuff is fucking stupid

>>75199950
The way you've written it, I don't know what the difference is.

>Style over results is not necessarily good football. Mourinho bus parking is still an style. Style over results advocates to not let a game outcome to be the final verdict of your style. If your team was "better" then you should work in the aspects that failed ("only care about your team") to go further. You can't always rely on the results, if you do so you are like a dog chasing his tail, since there is so many things that can go wrong (for both sides) in a football game.
If Mourinho is still on the "style over results" side, which you suggest he is by saying that his style is still a style, then who would be an example of someone who cares more about results?

>>75200072
Harsh m8

>>75200109
>>le we have evolved past that silly dichotomy!
I never said such dichotomy didn't exist. I'm stating that such ideologies came from bastardizations of Menotti & Bilardo.
It's not like bad interpretations of others people's' ideas aren't able to gain followers.

>>75199659
I think it's something on the lines of Sacchi's phylosophy: "you dont only have to win, you have to win convincingly"
Of course going the extreme way and putting flair over results is stupid tho

>>75200178
>then who would be an example of someone who cares more about results
There is none. At least not successful ones. What I meant was that this dichotomy (at least in its theoretical expression) isn't real, and are not mutually exclusive when you understand what people actually meant when they explained it.

> You can't always rely on the results
> always

See? You can't ALWAYS rely on results, but if you have lost one way or another multiple times, maybe it's time to review your gamestyle. There is no successful manager in the world who doesn't know how to swap between different aspects of this doctrines (that have existed way before Bilardo & Menotti) when it's necessary. Bilardism & Menottism is just a way to categorize and summarize some general ideas, are not meant to straight up split the managers into two eternal groups.

>Sampaoli about to sign with Argentina and the AFA

Where does Sampaoli fall in place on the spectrum?

File: hp1111111111.jpg (39KB, 497x325px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 497x325px

>>75190924
>sampaoli
>menotista

File: tipsss.jpg (20KB, 333x333px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 333x333px

>>75196324
>rasing

>>75199056
juve is literally "score in the first 25 minutes and spend the rest of the match playing 8-2-0: the team"

>>75199659
Well, as someone who supports a team that never wins anything (West Brom), I had a lot more fun attending games when we were playing more positive football pre-Steve Clark than I do now

>>75206426
>Implying Monaco don't play exciting, team focus football

Jardim is the new Bielsa.

>>75206467
That line has nothing to do with beautifulness, even less with teamwork. Read the quotes

>>75190924

in Caruso we trust

>>75206426
manuel machado?
really?

>>75206426
Lel'd at Machado.

He'll never manage anything above a Moreirense-tier team and it's such a shame.

>>75206820
He managed V.Guimarães a few years back.
Perhaps his career highlight.

But he's the guy that clearly stands out from the rest of the managers in the picture.

>>75196676
>>75195825
God you're a fucking retard, do some reading instead of demanding for your ignorance to be spoonfed.

>>75206820
Machado deserves to go to Olympiakos to have the owner's wife suck his Tuga Cock, like she does

>tfw too good to Tugaball

>>75206734
I did read them, it's literally what it says. Monaco play the same regardless of who the opposition is, they just focus on outscoring them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't but it's always stylish.

>>75199659
>Can someone please fucking explain to me why style would EVER matter more than results?
At the end, being a sportsman is being an entertainer. Style is better for entertainment, which is what draws the crowds

Some people are also ideologically drawn to what a sport should be like

>There are argentines on this board who never saw their country lift a trophy

>Football is beginning to be a lie well documented by the media.
>The coach proposes and the player disposes, but the limits that the tactics impose on us are every day obfuscating more the expression of new talents. A pity.
>The bacillus of efficiency has also attacked football, and some dare to ask what's the point in playing well. I feel tempted to tell about the time they dared to ask Borges what is poetry for, to which he answered: "What is a sunrise for? What are caresses for? What is the smell of coffee for?" Each question sounded like a sentence: they are for pleasure, for emotion, for living.
>Football is made up of subjective feeling, of suggestion - and, in that, Anfield is unbeatable. Put a stick with shit hanging from it in the middle of this passionate, crazy stadium and there are people who will tell you it's a work of art. It's not: it's shit hanging from a stick [...] if football is going the way Chelsea and Liverpool are taking it, we had better be ready to wave goodbye to any expression of the cleverness and talent we have enjoyed for a century
>Football is an excuse to make us happy.

Where does he fit in?

What about Valdano? It annoys me how underappreciated he is among football fans. He's actually one of the best philosophers of the sport, his quote comparing english football to shit on a stick is the best football quote I've ever heard.

File: SKlqan0.png (316KB, 293x400px) Image search: [Google]

316KB, 293x400px

>>75209140
>passionate, crazy stadium
>anfield

how do I learn more about this? I feel like I just discovered a subculture inside a subculture or something

>>75209016
99% of them

GOOD THREAD

>>75209314
http://theantiquefootball.com/post/105629110568/menotti-vs-bilardo-the-battle-for-the-soul-of

>>75200769
>>75206324
Sampaoli is self-declared Menottist and even had a fight with Bilardo

>>75190924
Fan of a shit first division team here.
I'll take literally anyone that can keep us from relegation, couldn't give a single fuck about playing beautiful football.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPo4LqPtPGQ

Great publicity about this division desu

Cappa = Play beautiful = Menotti = Moustache
Caruso = Win at all costs = Bilardo = Moustache+Goatee

>>75190924
Could Carusso save us from relegation to CONCACAF and give us a chance to qualify at least to "repechaje" to the new World Cup?

>>75211136
He probably could desu

He would get all the points in la altura + 1 point in every away game

>>75210911

>Sampaoli is self-declared Menottist and even had a fight with Bilardo

>le watch 5000 videos man
>menotist

>>75211385
He got that obsession from Bielsa though

that's why he's center-Menottist and not full blown Menottist like Basile who never cared about anything

this is the best thread I've ever been on

>>75206467
>>75207543
this man is right desu

File: ole.png (442KB, 660x385px) Image search: [Google]

442KB, 660x385px

Merlo and Basile

>great coaches
>best friends
>total opposite football ideologies

IMO you can be a shit defensive team and you can be a shit offensive team too. As long as your playstyle works and gets you results and team cohesion, it doesn't matter.

Juventus under Allegri is widely considered a defensive team, but i've never seen anyone say they play badly at all.

It's quite interesting. If you already enjoyed successes you might be hungrier for fancy football. If you have no trophy at all you want to win something with the most functional football. The same way a lot of communists were pampered brats with "ideas". Fascists were often "self-made" from poorer background. Both extremes somehow do not work out.

>>75199811
>he says he isn't argentinian anymore :^)
Wait, what?
Disregarding his comments though, where would you say he fits on the spectrum?

if you have the human resources to completely dominate the other team, why would you try and scrap a victory desperately holding the onto a small lead until the end? Just bang 2-4 goals. Adapt your system to your players and their limitations.
Tite was considered a bus parker in Corinthians, now that he's in the NT he's just blowing everyone else out of water with 24 goals in 8 matches.

Why is Bernie on the Right?

Is America that right wing of a country compared to Argentina

>>75212907
He hasn't been to Argentina in 4 years, doesn't even visit his family, and apparently claims he has moved on and enjoys the European lifestyle and doesn't want to come back not even to visit

That said, he's a disciple of Bielsa, not sure if he's more aligned with Menotti or Bilardo... probably Menotti tho from what I gather. So he's probably center-left.

>>75213216
Haven't seen anything it in the media here, although that doesn't say much considering how shit-tier it is.
Good thread btw.

>>75195825
Bilardo dont give a fuck if you played well or you bite the eyes of your rival to win unfairly. Menotistas contra Bilardistas is a big deal in this sport, there is a famous scene when bilardo was coaching Sevilla and Maradona kick Ribera in the head, Sevilla doctor comes to the pitch and helped Deportivo player. This is Bilardismo: pisalo, pisalo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvB-8tTphws.

>>75200333
>Sacchi's phylosophy
the only way to win is playng a good football

>>75213322
Bilardo is G-O-D

some anecdotes:

>he's a doctor, he studied Medicine while being a professional football player

>didn't celebrate 1986 World Cup win because Germany scored 2 headers against his team and he considers his teams have to be perfect when defending aerial plays
>he was so angry he didn't even want the medal and threw it away

>he had an habit of calling his players 3 A.M. in the morning to wake them up in the middle of the night, and immediately ask them: WHO ARE YOU MARKING TOMORROW? (answer) GOOD, BYE. (hangs up)

>once he took Ruggeri (already world champion and Real Madrid player) and took him to a park and made him run around the park as people gathered to see the spectacle... he then made him play against little kids to practice passing

>>75195930
>antigame
god damn this fucking expression. few years ago our sports (((media))) used it 24/7. fuck

>>75213535
>>didn't celebrate 1986 World Cup win because Germany scored 2 headers against his team and he considers his teams have to be perfect when defending aerial plays
>>he was so angry he didn't even want the medal and threw it away
kek

>>75213535
more anecdotes

>every new pre-season, he would force his players to make a choice:
>you either marry now, or next year, you can't marry between seasons
>so he would use his contacts to arrange the marriages of multiple players every season
>if a player had a girlfriend for more than 2 years, he would force him to marry her

>he had a great relationship with the wives of the players... there was a contract: they would take care of him (healthy lifestyle, no sex the night before a game, etc.) and he would do the same (make sure they aren't cheating or sneaking to parties)... the wives of the players always speak fondly of him

>before the world cup, the press absolutely hated him, so he set up an espionage network using taxi drivers, bus drivers and waiters to spy on journalists and other powerful people (club managers, owners of the newspapers, even government officials)
>he discovered that they were plotting to oust him and get him fired from the national team by starting a false scandal about him
>2 days before the false scandal broke out, he went to every radio and revealed the plan thus ruining the coup d'etat

File: based.jpg (21KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 500x500px

>>75213535
>>75213847
>he had an habit of calling his players 3 A.M. in the morning to wake them up in the middle of the night, and immediately ask them: WHO ARE YOU MARKING TOMORROW? (answer) GOOD, BYE. (hangs up)
>2 days before the false scandal broke out, he went to every radio and revealed the plan thus ruining the coup d'etat
top lel, absolutely based.

>>75195496
>uses faux prolixity
that bothers me

t. Manolo el simple

File: european version.png (598KB, 1500x1315px) Image search: [Google]

598KB, 1500x1315px

>>75216220

>>75190924
Where does Shakespeare fit in all of this?

>>75216695
Right between Joyce and Céline

>>75199659
This is exactly the reason most people hate the Greek NT and any based defensive park-the-bus team out there.

Noone gives credit to a good defender. No defender has and will win balondor.
Noone likes watching two non related teams play and one of them parking the bus.

But honestly, If it;s your team, you ve been parking hte bus since mintue 2 and for some reason you ve managed to scrap a result from a far better opponent, I honestly find it quite thrilling, more thrilling than watching a team get humiliated 3-0 by half time and the rest of the game becomming pointless.

>>75190924
>Taking Simeone seriously
Embarrasing

>>75216318
Don't forget Greece as red paradigm

File: -.jpg (253KB, 1386x1566px) Image search: [Google]

253KB, 1386x1566px

>>75216976
>No defender has and will win balondor
???

>>75225239
Cherrypicking. Him and Beckenbauer were the only ones iirc. Where are the golden balls to Neuer, Bonucci, and Pepe?

>>75225403
Agreed, but playing in a era of Messi/Ronaldo it's always going to be difficult.

>>75225428
they score so many goals because there aren't good defenders

>>75225403
Yashin has one

>>75198555
Does Conte fit in the middle of this? Leaning more towards Rocconata?

I remember hearing an argy say that kirchnerismo was just like caruso: good for getting the country out of the real third world apocalypse shit, bad for anything else

>>75213535
>3 A.M in the morning

as opposed to 3 A.M. in the afternoon?

>>75197833
Thanks for taking my inter to serie B celsão

>>75198189
Am I the only one here that compares football with poetry too?

It is the beautiful game

>>75199761
You are joking right? Dude has literally only lost a game in almost 2 years yet everyone still shits at him because his style of playing

>>75190924
which one of those WCs was effectively won by the dictator ruling your country at that time?

>>75231544
78.

>>75231565
you beat us in '86

how do i not know this??

>>75198555
>"may the best team win" he answered "damn, i hope not"

kek

This thread is pure gold, congrats OP. The closest to this divide we have is the oldschool (Felipão, Luxembruh, Celso Roth, Renato Gaucho, been around since the 90s at least, old, stubborn, believe in man motivation opposed to studying and tactics) x the new school (Cuca, Tite, Róger Machado, Jair Ventura, Eduardo Baptista, believe in tactics and studying, not that good with man management). Renato Gaúcho recently took over Grêmio from Róger Machado and led them to the BR cup title, and immediately declared "the only ones who need to study are the ones who dont know shit about football". On the other hand, Cuca and Tite are the last 2 league champions, and except for Grêmio (with Renato) and Fluminense (with the old wizard Abel Braga), every other big club has a manager from the new school on board.

>>75216318
place greece way over the right off frame

To anyone who understands spanish. This video is about bilardo, and it's golden.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-1LiyCpsUg