Players that are better than Messi

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>>73972153

>>73972174
>>73972213
>>73972234
Wrong

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>>73972153
>>73972174
>>73972326

>>73972345
Iniesta has all the same trophies as Messi but also two Euros and a world Cup (which he scored the winning goal in)

>>73972374

Messi is better

Perhaps Greatest Of All Time (GOAT)

I honestly can't think of any I've seen.

The only ones that come close in the modern era are Xavi, Zidane and Robben

>>73976709
Iniesta is literally better than Zidane.

>>73976442
Prove it

Haven't seen one better than Messi in form. Xavi/Iniesta midfield was based, though, and deserve more credit.

VARDY
A
R
D
Y

>>73977064
6 goals this season

>>73977340
Saving them up for when he EXPOSES Memepaoli

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>>73972374
Just like Piqué. So, is Shakiro better than Messi too or is that "team titles are the measure for who's the better player/GOAT" just a retarded and last resource argument for desperate antis?
Yeah, I thought so.

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>>73972174
Wrong Ronaldo.

>>73979994
Messi had Aeguro, Higuain and Mascherano, why couldnt he score?

>>73980142
Have you seen them play without Messi? Against Perú and Venezuela, for example?

They are dogshit in their NT.

>>73980142
>Aeguro

Oh wow! A never-in-form and a serial-choker couple of strikers, and a DM! He had the WC on a silver platter, the little fucker!

You do realize Messi did EXACTLY what Maradona did in 1986, right? That is, being the main responsable to take the NT to the final and then NOT SCORING in it? The only difference being, Diego had a striker that, for once, did not fuck up. So now even you probably call Maradona a GOAT without hesitation, but Messi a choker.
That's the level of retardation that one has to deal with in some threads... and there's not helping it.

>>73980171
The fuck? I doubt has watched more than the WC final, if that.

>>73980284
I don't think Maradona is GOAT because he played in an easier era. You do have to put some on the blame on Messi though, he gets quite lazy sometimes and just walks around with his hands on his hips, which happens a lot with Argentina with their shit midfield

>>73980364
>easier era

Mid 80s-late 90s was the hardest era in history to be an attacking player.

>>73980489
Overall competition has increased. Better salaries, coaches, drugs, training and tactics

>>73980142
> ask if collective titles are the objective way to measure a player quality
> jumps with an automatic response "but he also had good teammates"

Nice argument following there m8.

>>73981137
How do you measure then?

>>73981435
Have you tried with watching them play?

I'm not even the same argie you were arguing with and I don't think Messi is the goat, but Jesus, measuring a player ONLY and DEFINITELY by their collective titles is just pain dumb. Why don't you just assume that Valdes is better football player than Messi or Cristiano then.

You either acept this or you redefine what being "best player" means.

>>73981778
Valdes is a better keeper than Messi

>>73981898
He is better than Khan or Neuer?

>>73981960
Does he have more trophies?

>>73976442
Fantastic argument

>>73980489
I think you're confusing the level of defensive play in the 80s/90s in comparison to attacking with overall difficulty
There's no argument that it's harder to play football now that it's ever been
But that's because athleticism is priority these days, not skill level
pick Maradona out and place him in todays game and you'd see him get rinsed by any defender you like
But that's because in his day you could pump yourself full of cocaine then go out on the pitch and go past people because everyone you're paying against either has a drink problem, smokes 20 a day, has the same coke problem you do, or just isn't fit
Most players back then weren't natural athletes, so pump yourself full of steroids like Maradona did and you now have an athletic advantage over other people
Put him in today's game and most players would keep him quiet
Jack Wilshire being an exception, what with the smoking and the perpetual injuries, he's about Maradona's level

>>73972234
what's your favorite maramoment?

>>73972374
So do you actually watch games or do you just go on Wikipedia?

Iniesta is brilliant, an all-time great but for fuck's sake. You don't need to construct an argument that Messi is better. Just fucking watch. This isn't baseball where you need to go by stats

>>73972326

Ah yes, casillas is better than Messi, as he has a World Cup and 2 euro cups

>>73983864
What's the point of being the """GOAT""" if you can only play well against shit or ordinary teams but don't have a strong mentality to perform when it matters? Iniesta thrives in big games, he always has. Messi on the other hand will disappear completely in 9 out of 10 important games. What has he achieved when he didn't have Barcelona players to bail him out? Fuck all, that's what, and you dare say he's better than Iniesta? Have some fucking shame.

Messi has never won anything with Argentina so no-one will notice that I'm a virgin and that makes Messi can't be considered the best ever.

>>73984188
filename

>>73981435
Realizing how much of a player someone is by watchim him playing is really that crazy of a notion for some people...? CR really IS ruining football

>>73983511
Premise is correct; athleticism is priority these days. But don't be stupid: if you're going to raise the level of the rival's phisical condition, you have to do the same with Maradona's, not just throw the 80's guy in modern football. Pointless. He'll be another footballer today's training, and someone with Diegos natural talent, power, skills etc wil always stand over the rest. Also, hint: a life of drugs and alcohol does not help you achieve your maximum potential...
But then you wrote
>Jack Wilshire being an exception, what with the smoking and the perpetual injuries, he's about Maradona's level
...and I realized I took the bait.

>>73984410
When someone writes something like this, he really doesn't realize the rest probably saw by themselves what's he's mentioning and will inmediately call bullshit?
I recommend you to start watching Messi's games (you can keep watching Real Madrid and Brazil). You're missing out. Have some stuff

http://www.michelacosta.com/en/messi-vs-cristiano-ronaldo-finals/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D222LenCEvM

Video doesn't even include the HUNDREDS of goals scored in playoff games where he would save Argentina or Barça's pretty much all by himself. Or goals against Real Madrid (all time top scorer), or Atlético Madrid (Spanish team he has scored the most goals). Or critical goals in WC QF... etc

>>73976442
Pele.

>>73976709
>Zidane
this meme will never die

>>73980284
Diego gave 2 assists in that final tho

>>73985301
we are talking about maradona, not about hipothetic maradona from the present. this kind of crazy shit is dumb: you dont say some runner from the 30s is faster than usain because he would run very fast with the training methods from the present.

>>73984410
>Messi on the other hand will disappear completely in 9 out of 10 important games
guy that never watches football and tries to be polemic

>>73980142
>Messi had a team of horrible players
>why couldn't he score?

>>73990009
Lol? YOU are talking about an hipotetic Maradona throwing him, completely out of context and anachronically, in modern football... and saying that "most players would keep him quiet" (again with the guessing).
I'm actually trying to put some context and sense in your fantasy.

So, to sum up
>"we are talking about maradona, not about hipothetic maradona from the present."
Good. Then he's the fucking GOAT and you might as well drop your faulty and pointless theories.

>>73972153
>>73990351
also:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/messi-is-better-than-maradona-but-maybe-not-pele/

>>73990399
How many and what games have they taken into account in Pele comparison? Its still pretty mindbogling how Messi was better dribbler then the guy that played in 50s and 60s...

>>73987913
He gave one, and the player he gave it to had to run 40m and do 4 touches on the ball to score it. That player could have choked it at any moment, yet he didn't. That player is the difference in NT legacy between Messi and Maradona. Let that sink in.

Iniesta is the most underrated player in history. Barca, Messi, and Spain owe everything to this guy.

>>73990399
I gave it a serious, honest shot and read it. It seems to make sense at first, but he ends up comparing absolutely incomplete and empty stats (like a stereotipical brain dead American when it comes to sports) to determine who's the better player...

The mere fact of Brazil's general team dominance over any NT counterpart in that period of football history completely brakes an individual analisys based on stats, like this robot does.

And I would say the same if that analisys showed that Messi was "better" than Pelé/Maradona or Maradona better than Messi/Pelé

>>73976724

DELETE THIS