How do we defeat entropy?

>>9154599
Well, you could clean your room for once.

INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

>>9154599
We just need to syphon matter and energy from another universe with a hose

without entropy, life wouldn't exist.

>>9154601
kek

>>9154599
Take the energy magical girls create when they give into despair and turn into witches.

>>9154599
Okay here's the plan
STEP 1
>be alive
>?
>profit

>>9154599
>Doesn't realise absolute equilibrium will never be reached.
>Doesn't realise energy goes through boom and stagnation cycles.
>Ignorant of the fact that entropy is infinite and the Universe will never reach heat death.

>>9154671
>Citation needed

Give me some papers.

Open the universe. Entropy only wins in an isolated system.

>>9154599
what do you think entropy is?

>>9154612
Highschoolers are too young for asimov

>>9154599
Entropy is a good thimg.
Entropy creates complex systems. It makes sure that all random noise is wiped away leaving room for the rezilient systems that can function despite entropy.

Without it something as complex as life could never arise.

And you can always defeat entropy locally in finite periods, We do it all the time.

>>9154706
I'm speaking in cosmic terms
>Entropy a hypothetical tendency for the universe to attain a state of maximum homogeneity in which all matter is at a uniform temperature (heat death)


My essential question is: Can we live forever? Will existence end one day?

>>9154716
>Can we live forever? Will existence end one day?
It will end. Don't so worry about that. But it can potentially keep going as long as we have an energy source to fuel us.

>>9154725
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=FMJNta-okRw

A mere 87 quintillion years a not enough for me, I desire eternity.

File: IMG_0596.jpg (19KB, 163x200px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 163x200px

Singularity

>>9154737
>The final solution to the Last question
it all makes sense now

>>9154599

By ending the universe.

I would have to imagine that whatever caused the big bang to happen and the universe to expand as it did could happen once more if heat death occurred and all matter gravitated to a central point.

>>9154767
>Quantum fluctuation

Quantum tunnelling in the last epoch of our universe could create in an isolated patch of the vacuum, via inflation, new Big Bangs giving birth to new universes.

>>9154716
There are more worthwhile things to learn about the universe than how it ends.

Entropy isn't an enemy, there would be no linear time without entropy and you probably wouldn't exist, plus it would be possible for the universe to end permanently. If entropy carries on forever and the universe sticks around forever in whatever form, eventually everything that can happen will happen forever. Entropy is your friend, you just have to wait 10^10^10^10^3 years to appreciate it.

>>9154599
What if we wrapped the universe in cling-wrap. I mean LOTS of cling wrap, so that it's airtight.

>>9154612
What a great short story that was.

>>9154815
>there would be no linear time without entropy

If our universe would stop to expand it would halt time, but I'm not so sure if entropy has an effect on the unfolding of time.

>>9154734
I feel bad for the post humans

>>9154843

It wouldn't, entropy would still continue even if the universe started contracting. Its space that's expanding, not the Universe, although the universe is theorized have had an initial inflation field. What causes entropy is energy and matter tending towards its lowest energy state. A sand castle decays because that particular configuration of sand only has a small number of ways to be arranged, thus a high energy, while a pile of sand has an enormous of ways, thus a low energy demand. But that doesn't mean a sand castle can't randomly form and if matter/energy didn't have preference for its lowest energy state chemical reactions could go backwards and forwards (for example, a pile of ash turning back into a pile of wood) and sandcastles might regularly pop up after a wave hits the beach, thus there would be no linear time. You might be born and then go into the womb and be unborn.

>>9154734
There's still the energy to be had from throwing iron into black holes.

>>9154599
become meguca

quantum self-driving teslas

>>9154599
Ooen it somehow.

>>9154599
Open it**

>>9154613
Wasn't this the plot of a book?

>>9154599
A final boss battle with the universe.

>>9154843
>If our universe would stop to expand it would halt time

No it wouldn't, time exists as long as energy gradients exist.

>>9154625
Tried it, didn't work
- K

File: 1500616947549.jpg (21KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 320x320px

>>9154599

>How do we defeat entropy?

Life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life

Eventually all matter will be in black holes. Then the black holes will evaporate into nothing through hawking radiation.

Space will be empty, devoid of all information .

>>9154734
>87 quintillion is not enough for me
Yet you have a life expectancy around 80 years.

File: images.jpg (7KB, 216x148px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 216x148px

>>9154599
we must construct more pylons

>>9154716
Maybe some ultra rich people today will manage to upload their brains onto computers before their deaths.

but,

you also risk said computer being hacked and put in a hell simulation where one second in real life is 10,000 years on the simulation where escape or suicide is impossible. I'd rather choose death than take that risk

To the people who want to live "forever", all matter is made up of atoms that will one day decay. Who wants to stick around and experience near absolute nothingness? It's a horrifying thought to me. "the Jaunt" by Stephen King comes to mind.

>>9155358
fuck i laughed harder than i needed to as im sick, thanks anyway friend

File: MY_DEMONS.jpg (36KB, 662x705px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 662x705px

S rank luck

>>9155053
why would it all go into those black holes? It's not going to, they aren't vacuum cleaners

>>9155467
Do not push the button, kid

>>9154886
>tfw you bait doesn't get a response

File: kyubey-puella-magi-madoka-magica-the-battle-pentagram-2.77.jpg (18KB, 210x240px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 210x240px

>>9154599
we don't

>>9154614
Life is literally a means of delaying entropy by transmitting a code through deep time, however changeable. Every organism is like a little island of order. Even if entropy is always increasing.

By creating a dyson universe.

>>9154815
>there would be no linear time without entropy
stop watching popsci youtube soundbites

>>9155830
Merely delays the inevitable

>>9154601
fpbp

>>9154625
Are you talking about fucking virgins?
Yum

>>9154599
See
>>9154612

Alternatively, make a deal and become a magical girl.
Alternatively, die and stop worrying about it.
Alternatively, discover a nonconservative reaction.
Alternatively, ask Jesus to do you a solid when he gets back.

>>9154734
>>9154725
I guess it depends on what you mean by existence. Life, yes, no reason currently to think it won't. Just shit in general, no.

>>9154671
entropy is infinite?

>>9154711
>tfw increases of entropy ARE due to random noise.

>>9154612
My dude

>>9155377
The computers will just run out of energy it won't solve anything

>>9155960
We are clearly not talking about the same kind of random noise here. Common man, try to understand what is actually being said before you leave a comment.

If life is actually able to make it to the point where most of the stars are burned out, what would they be like?

File: magnetar.jpg (111KB, 800x500px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 800x500px

>>9156180
I always wondered what it'll be like when 90% of the matter has turned to iron through nuclear decay. Would the universe become 1 giant magnetic ball? What sort of freaky quantum physics effects would a galaxy sized magnet have?

>>9155851

Care to explain how there wouldn't? Physics works backwards and forwards, its only energy states that prevent causality reversing.

>>9156180

Life definitely not, simulations, maybe.

File: Thespian comic_Arik.jpg (364KB, 1634x538px) Image search: [Google]

364KB, 1634x538px

>>9155377
>mind uploading - one of my favorite subjects

1/2

When we talk about Mind Uploading, one thing we have to understand: Creating a copy of your consciousness isn't you. I think there is only one way to achieve immortality: By Gradual neuron replacement and Mind Outsourcing. This procedure will probably take years and require an autosentience.
Gradual neuron replacement will probably occure over a prolonged period of time, month or years, as the individual neurons of the sophont's mind is replaced one by one by functionally-equivalent devices. The brain continues to operate throughout the process, and if carried out correctly, the subject will experience no discontinuity as their brain slowly becomes replaced by electronic components.
(I would like to inform, that our brain is capable of regnerating itself by its own. The brain does not replace itself every 7 years, but it can heal itself)

>>9156209
So just self replicating machines?

>>9154599
You can't. Only way to cheat entropy would be to create an escape hatch out of this universe.

File: michael-whelan_isaac-asimov_foundation.jpg (1MB, 987x1600px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 987x1600px

>>9156295
2/2

Now comes the tricky part, in which a autosentience(total self awarness) is required.

Mind Outsourcing is when the subject saves their mentality and memory storage to external substrates which were separate from the subjects's own brain, until finally al of the sophont's thoughts, perceptions, memories, identity, etc. take place outside and away from the mass of grey matter the sophont initially came equipped with. You have become a digital entity This will probably require decades or even centuries because you have to fully understand yourself for such task.

This of course requires, that autosentience doesn't lead to catatonia.

File: 1504746540395.jpg (59KB, 500x493px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 500x493px

It makes me a little sad to think about some distant descendant watching the last star wink out, and waiting for it's reserve power to go out, then the last self organising complex beings huddling together in the darkness waiting not just for death, but perfect Oblivion, where they won't even be able to recombinate into life, or anything, as the atoms of their computers dissipate into radiation. Our super advanced future selves if we ever make it there have the worst fate.

>Mfw this thread kept me up last night

>>9154599
We get little girls to sign contracts to fight monsters and harvest the energy released when they turn into witches, duh.

>Fly through the dying cosmos at 99.9...light speed
Time dilation has made time stand virtually still for you.
>Not many wonky gravitational anomalies in such an even universe
>Statistically the universe will either spawn new big bangs or return to a lower entropy state after a really long fucking time.
>But you're in stasis whizzing around at incredible hihg speed.
>ship traverses the void until things are more suitable.

Alternately
>humans master quantum gravity enough to enter black holes.
>Enter, no other options
>fall into eternal black hole
>never reach the singularity
>time dialates exponentially
>thoughts slowly take longer to process (not that you would notice)
>Humanity in limbo forever

>>9156159
so explain what you're talking about. how does entropy or the second law or whatever clean away random noise in any kind of universe.

Negative mass

>>9156466
In a universe without entropy, the universe would have to be full off very hot patches and cold patches. Getting the climate on earth to calm down wont happened. There is no longer anything driving everything toward equilibrium.

Something as subtle as life would be drowned out by other gatherings of mass that will self assemble, and stay that way because there is nothing to break it down. Reproduction no longer has any benefit. And without reproduction, the complexity of these masses is only decided by the chance of that shape and function spontaneously combining.

So there would be a ton of super simple forms of organic matter.

>>9156507
Or huge masses of self assembled biomatter that becomes bigger and weirder until it gets so big that it starts to fuse.

>>9154601
Sort yourself out, bucko.

There's no way we can defeat something we don't fully understand

>>9154601
top kek

>>9156561
We understand entropy very well, and have for a long time. There is nothing mystical about it.

>>9156507
I don't think the universe would be like that. The second law of thermodynamics is only a statistical description. Proposing a universe without the second law is almost a contradiction in itself. I dont think you'd even have a universe almost. No energy.

>>9156604
A universe without entropy is what the whole thread is about, and what this discussion is about. If it could exist or not is a another discussion.

File: 53.jpg (313KB, 620x877px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 620x877px

>>9154599
We dont

>>9155283
>I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even five hundred would be pretty nice.

>>9156180
Humans would probably exist in giant colony ships which make use of ultra efficient fusion or fission power generators with enough fuel to run for multiple millenia. Their bodies would be kept alive by artificial means while their minds would exist in a matrix like simulation. Life would go on like this until the ships ran out of fuel. I'm just daydreaming here

>>9156623
But my point is that a universe without entropy wouldn't make sense... is fundamentally unimagineable.

>>9156623
And actually the thread isn't about the universe not having a second law. Its about nullifying it.

>>9156728
We already have refrigerators if you are talking about nullifying it locally.

>>9154709
I loved asimov in high school.

>>9156773
well we already have biological life. To an extent (and don't quote me), you could say the same for a hurricane - that is until it ventures onto land and loses its food source. Its OPs question not mine! Tbh, i dont think the question makes too much sense like i said to the other guy but ive been interested in entropy.

Is he asking (pretty much) can we fight against death?

>>9156728
On the hurricane thing - but then again, we can starve too.

>>9156674
>>9156180

Abject nonsense. The creatures that exist in a trillion years time will be more machine than organic, they'll live in space because they won't need to breath.

Isn't entropy probabilistic at a quantum level?
So there "is" a way to reverse entropy

And to the people saying "open it" well, wouldn't entropy just re-adjust? You're not eliminating or diminishing it, just spreading it.

>>9156874
open what?

>>9156883
Sorry.
Open system.
Since Entropy can only increase in an isolated system. But opening it would only make a "bigger" isolated system, unless we get to multidimensional shit. And even then we wouldn't know.

We already do by being alive. Since we are conscious "demons", we can literally do exactly what the demon did in Maxwell's paradox.

>>9156858
My post specifically says humans. Nothing says humans won't be around in a trillion years. Besides.. I'd rather be living in a dream workd than floating around in space.. what is there to do in space anyway.. Nothing... your post is retarded

File: wojak.png (824KB, 720x681px) Image search: [Google]

824KB, 720x681px

>>9154599
It really only appears like a problem if you choose to conceptualize an arrow of time pointing from past to future, so just stop doing that.

File: GenericWhiteWojak.png (126KB, 619x757px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 619x757px

>>9156900
>we are conscious "demons"
>we can literally do exactly what the demon did in Maxwell's paradox

>>9156200
***Squish***

File: 1504592796767.png (622KB, 504x690px) Image search: [Google]

622KB, 504x690px

>>9154599
>yfw trying to defeat entropy causes an increase in entropy

>>9154599
By using it against itself.

>>9156888
Its not that it only increases in an isolated system, its just that due to the complexity of physics, thermodynamic laws can only be assumed under certain constraints, typically at equilibrium - essentially a simplification like how you try to reduce confounds in experiments. People are working on a non-equilibrium set of rules/understanding now though.

>>9154612
hell yeah

>>9154625
>>9154878
>>9155621
>>9156313
I've still not heard a good argument against this idea. Tell me why it wouldn't work, /sci/.

>>9155377
Read "I have no mouth, but I must scream." Basically what you just posted happens

>>9154612
fucking gayas hell story for gay retards
i guess the gays gotta dream too

File: Kyubey.jpg (61KB, 813x668px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 813x668px

>>9154625
Sounds like a good plan. Would you like to make a contract?

>>9156307 Claiming that your uploaded conscious isn't you is a philosophical argument, no?

>>9154599
PRO TIP:
YOU CAN'T

File: crystalcomputer.jpg (50KB, 560x482px) Image search: [Google]

50KB, 560x482px

>>9154599

Using Time Crystals

>Computer that could outlive the universe a step closer

The heat-death of the universe need not bring an end to the computing age. A strange device known as a time crystal can theoretically continue to work as a computer even after the universe cools.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22028-computer-that-could-outlive-the-universe-a-step-closer/

>Death-defying time crystal could outlast the universe

We don't have to take the heat death of the universe lying down – a time crystal, symmetrical in time rather than space, would have the power to survive

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328484-000-death-defying-time-crystal-could-outlast-the-universe/

>Time crystals—how scientists created a new state of matter

https://phys.org/news/2017-02-crystalshow-scientists-state.html

>>9154858
>Reactions in all possible directions possible at random, releasing and taking in energy
What would happen?

>>9154599
Worm holes through time

Rub two materials together and measure their temperature change.

>>9154858
It would make you look like you knew what you were talking to if you stopped misusing the word entropy. The way you talk, im guessing that when you say entropy you actually mean the second law of thermodynamics. Entropy is a mathematical quantity, not a force or a law, a description or an observation.

Clearly if you don't know what entropy actually means, you must know nothing about it. All you've heard about it is from pop sci.

Fucking faggot.

File: dancingpepe.jpg (25KB, 800x536px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 800x536px

>>9156295
>Creating a copy of your consciousness isn't you.
This is one of the worst philosophical misconceptions of all time.
It's not that a copy wouldn't be "you," it's that there's no such thing as continuity of "self" in the first place. The closest thing to a continuity mechansim that actually exists is just your memories (and existing habits and aptitude for new behaviors, although you can argue those are ultimately derivative of memory), which can exist in more than one container without any one of those containers being more genuinely "you" than any of the others. "You" from ten minutes ago doesn't magically teleport into "you" from five minutes ago any more than "you" before an artificial mind version is created would teleport into that artificial mind version. The artificial mind creation would result in two versions of "you" existing at the same time if you don't kill the source "you" as part of the process, which screws with our intuitions since there wouldn't normally be more than one version existing at the same time in the natural scenarios we're familiar with, but the multiplicity of the situation doesn't make the artificial mind any less legitimate or "just a copy," at least not in any way that's less legitimate than the countless many momentary versions of "you" that have already emerged from your birth to the present.
Replacing your brain with artificial components one neuron at a time wouldn't be beneficial at all, it'd just satisfy a superstitious belief that there's some special continuity of "self" module you need to preserve for an artificial "you" to be more than "just a copy."

>>9154599
by turning back time, duh

>>9155022
I'm currently on a no death run so watch me solo it

>>9154612
Asimov is too much of a pacifist to my sci-fy likings, I want to read about a prussian empire fighting against a corrupt democracy, not about how humans are still shit beings 1000 years in the future

>>9157978
>the countless many momentary versions of "you"
isnt your definition of you just pointlessly redundant, intractible and meaningless.

what about people with amnesia.

>>9157978
You are a product of your brain's processes, and if you stop the process you die.

>>9158039
No, it's just the truth. It's exactly what the Buddhist idea of anātman is about. It only seems weird because of how widespread the misconception of there being a continuity of self is. It's actually a lot less convoluted than that misconception since it dispels the magical bullshit of identity continuity and leaves you what's actually going on, which is just brain activity generated moment to moment.
>>9158056
>and if you stop the process you die.
"You" is a manufactured narrative, which is why the phenomenon of "ego death" is a thing. It's possible to experience the "you" narrative dissolving while the biological organism that came up with that narrative is still breathing and physically fine.
If you recreate brain activity in an artificial substrate, that artificial version won't be any more or less legitimate as "you" than the biological version is.

>>9158139
But don't you get to the problem of infinitesimals? Surely identity is a brain problem not a philosophical problem. Its a product of how we process information. Not inherent in the world. I dont think continuity or discrete descriptions are either more or less true. You're talking as much bullshit as anyone else. Stop using mystical crap to make a point.

Go back to Brokeback you arse broken queer.

>>9158156
>Surely identity is a brain problem not a philosophical problem.
It's not a brain problem because it isn't an actual thing, same reason souls aren't a brain problem.

>>9158139
>"You" is a manufactured narrative
Manufactured by what?

I'm not your enemy

>>9158173
I don't understand that question. What possible alternative options could there be for this? And why does it matter when the point is it's just a story of convenience and not a real thing?

>>9156820
https://youtu.be/O133ppiVnWY?t=1h2m55s

File: 1501460660149.png (446KB, 840x824px) Image search: [Google]

446KB, 840x824px

>>9154601

>>9158177
Fuck You!

>>9158139
Your second paragraph is not relevant at all. And to that i say "so what?" Fakkit.

>>9158218
It's completely relevant because you're claiming some actual "self" continuity mechanism dies when brain processes stop, and I'm pointing out why that isn't true.
>And to that i say "so what?"
No, you're the one trying to argue we need to do something special to preserve a thing that never existed in the first place, you don't get to say "so what."

>>9158139
>If you recreate brain activity in an artificial substrate, that artificial version won't be any more or less legitimate as "you" than the biological version is.
Eh, Me-2 may have the same memories and has the same mindstructure as I, but we don't share the same consciousness. It is a newly created being with my mind.
If I would met such being I would of course treat it the same as every other sentient being.

Consciousness is a continuous process, not a a pattern of memories and programs.

>>9158230
>Me-2 may have the same memories and has the same mindstructure as I, but we don't share the same consciousness
You can say the same exact thing about "you" from a year ago and "you" now.

>>9158229
Not that anon, but I would like to remind: think therefore I am. You can't convince me, that I'm not real, [spoiler]demon[spoiler].

>>9158238
The "I" part is in fact one of the major focuses of criticism that have been brought up against that Descartes proposition. Even if it's agreed for the sake of argument that the existence of thinking can be known as definitely true, that doesn't say anything about the existence of a distinct and continuity having self entity.

>>9154601
+1^

>>9154612
Just read the story, it was good but does anyone know a good "end of the universe" story that doesn't pussy out by having things continue or start over somehow?

>>9158603
Marathon Infinity

>>9158230
I would recommend you look up the existential comic "The machine". It will explain what you're not getting.

>>9154599
You can not defeat Entropy.
Give up you'r existance.
Lay down and die like the filthy time locked organisms that you are.
Stop resisting.

>>9158727 wrong your and you sound upset friendo :^)

>>9158727
phoenix flames

good luck.

>>9154599
Who are "we"?

>>9159405
the people who aren't alive.

>>9158603
real life.

>>9158603
On the beach.

>>9154599
you do work

>>9154612
spbp

Make a new universe without entropy.

>>9161655
> Make a new universe without entropy.

kek

>>9157627
This

File: nusmug.jpg (6KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 225x225px

>>9154625
unironically this

Gravity

>>9158139
>brain activity generated moment to moment.
that's you, and that why a copy isn't you, my buddhist fag

>>9158229
>I'm pointing out why that isn't true
you're doing a poor job at it

>>9158237
no because me from 2 years ago and me now share the same point of view unlike a copy

>>9155643
explain your theory in detail

>>9162876
Prove that you weren't created a week ago and your memories are false. Your entire perspective is a lie. The only thing that makes you "you" is the fact that you are existing in this moment right now. You are whatever pattern of atoms that make you up at this very second. If someone were to copy exactly atom for atom and make a new body, that would still be you.

>>9162942
unfalsifiable therefore not science
>>>/x/ or >>>/his/

>>9154599
>>9154601
/sci/ is dead and the undergrads killed it

>>9162942
>copies my atoms and gives them different spacial coordinates
>that would still be you
fuck off newfag

>>9163394
This

>>9163394
/tg/ is better at science than /sci/ is. The same thread was posted on /tg/ and they were doing a better job ansering it.

>>9163527
>antser

>>9163527
>neckbeards vs underage le funey NERDS who luv science and that 4chan maymay site lol im bi btw xD
Not a surprise at all.

With a giant frigerator to make things mroe colder.

>>9163394
>nobody can have fun on this board
And you still wonder why you don't have any friends

>>9162942
The change of atomic structure doesn't occur that fast. A glass of water from yesterday is the same glass water today.
We are the product of a brain process, not same atomic pattern.

>>9163602
>LE PROFESSOR JOKES SCHOOL IS FOR LE FUN
fuck off normie

>>9156200
There will be a lot more carbon and oxygen, anon.

OP is a faggot

File: Polarisstarlifting.jpg (68KB, 1152x788px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 1152x788px

>>9155830
This

you dont
you help it out

>>9165572
I AM TRYING MY HARDEST!

>>9154699
Even if the universe expands forever it's still considered closed? Doesn't applied thermodynamic phenomena travel at relativistic speeds?

>>9154858
>tfw you discover that some background always existed unbound by today's concepts and space/time is just shock wave of a phenomena that started within

Isn't life the answer to entropy? The literal function of life is to gather scattered matter into a more ordered whole and maintain it there as long as possible. Granted it's an extremely inefficient process but overall it seems to function at a reasonable pace where it's allowed, especially in our case where we've achieved sapience.

File: entering_autism_land.jpg (25KB, 285x357px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 285x357px

>>9166523
Sorry for being autistic but how does this reduce entropy? Also test
[math]I'm a faggot[/math]

>>9166523
I think he's referring to the entropy of the universe.

>>9154599
Gravity.

File: 1503587935913.png (1MB, 1280x959px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1280x959px

>>9154599
We just need to pierce the heavens.