What do you think about homeopathy?

Works better than (((conventional))) medicine.

>>9104688
It doesn't work at all.

>>9104691
t. big pharma

>>9104691
You just took too much.

>>9104688

nope, homeopathy does not work, it's 100% bullshit. What happens is that a bunch of things in conventional medicine is ubber fucked up and sometimes doing nothing(homeopathy) is better than the actual medicine.

examples:
>lobotomy was conidered good medicine not so far in the past
>shock therapy was considered good medicine not so far in the past
>a bunch of common psych medications have horrible effects in people with some genetic mutations but most psych docs won't do the exams before prescribing them

>>9104681
It's the same as doing nothing. Save your money and just do nothing.

>>9104700
The effect is partly (mostly) due to paying for it. Something *that* expensive must be good!

>>9104695

more examples:

>There are doctors who prescribe anti-psychotics for people with depression
>A bunch of doctors actually belived that "gender is a social construct" so they would assign a gender of choice for babies with malformed genitalia what lead to some famous suicide stories(they wouldn't even check the chromosomes XX or Xy, literally Bill Nye level stuff)
>there are doctors right now prescribing antibiotics for weak diseases that would need no medication at all(this is really dangerous)

More examples of why, even tho homeopathy is stupid, you should not simply accept conventional medicine as some sort of perfect good:

>a bunch of medications right now are total bullshit that big pharma got to sell by bribing doctors(Lipitor for example is one of the top selling drugs and is one of the worst things you can consume)
>doctors prescribe "painkillers"(overpriced heroin) all the time without giving a fuck about the patients

>>9104706
>A bunch of doctors actually belived that "gender is a social construct"
While now a bunch of doctors actually believe that "gender is your choice", and cut off your dick if you wish so. If you later change your mind...

>>9104713

Yes, true, but at least it is with consent now. The stuff I'm talking about is with newborn babies and it's ubber fucked up.

>>9104706
>>9104712
that has more to do with some doctors being unfit to practice their profession than with conventional medicine itself

>>9104721

a bunch of this pratices are pretty common, Lipidor is a top selling drug, it sells more than Viagra and you don't see a lot of doctors telling the truth:

it's a bullshit drug that does no good and only harms people

>>9104721

Also, lobotomy wasn't a "bad doctor practice" it was a common procedure. Same with shock therapy.

>>9104695
Shock therapy has been shown time and time again to have positive effects in excess of what would be expected of a placebo.

Of course, there's the risk of permanent memory loss, but if you're a talentless neet, what do you have to lose?

>>9104725
>it's a bullshit drug that does no good and only harms people
>[Citation needed]

>>9104729

>there's the risk of permanent memory loss

oh, that sounds really safe

>>9104742
>forgetting all the cringeworthy shit you have done
Sounds good senpai sign me up

I know very little about homeopathy which ironically by their rules makes me an expert

>>9104728
and both of those are pretty much nonexistent now. lobotomies don't happen and electroshock has like one or two very specific recognized uses, but it isn't used as a cure-all anymore

medicine is a human endeavor, and like all human endeavors will have its pitfalls. if we judged all human works by the totality of their mistakes we'd be paralyzed with guilt. we should judge medicine by what it's doing right now, which is mostly ok with some major fuckups

it's still better than homeopathy, which does literally nothing despite evidence to the contrary

There are select cases of homeopathy where the hormetic effect actually plays a role. But I would say this is the exception rather than the rule, and as a whole homeopathy is bullshit.

>>9104681
>The more you dilute the medicine, the better it works.
>The less medicine in the water you drink, the better it works.
>Not adding any medicine to your water would thus be the universal cure for everything.

>>9104858
Could you cite an instance or two?

>>9104858
possibly, except that almost all homeopathic preparations are far far more dilute than the range in which biphasic responses are seen in the body

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>>9104874
"Properly" done dilutions reach the point where it is statistically unlikely that any molecule of the "medicine" is present at all.

I see some "homeopathic" nostrums in the drug store that are much less dilute than is required by the idiot theory behind all this, and thus likely still contain traces of the "active ingredient." I am unsure whether, in these cases, it is cheaper not to spend time and effort on many additional dilutions, or whether the manufacturer is selling something that might actually work but are marketing it as Homeopathic because idiots' money spends the same as everybody else's

>>9104712
>>doctors prescribe "painkillers"(overpriced heroin) all the time without giving a fuck about the patients
Doctors here literally just give you paracetamol+ibuprofen after surgery.

>>9104695
>>9104706
All of those things are psychology, not medicine. Psychology is just as much of a pseudoscience as homeopathy

>>9104681
Stick to real medicine.

>>9104681
Slightly more effective than crystal healing

>>9104695
shock therapy is still performed, also electroconvulsive therapy

>>9104681
Placebo effect

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>>9104681
Depends on how you define "homeopathy".

Some natural medicines work, occasionally nearly as good as similar more modern solutions, many of which are derived from said - no one really denies that. Plus, the placebo effect is a thing, even when that isn't the case.

However... The "let's stick a drop of material X in a drop of water, dilute it a million times so it's the equivalent of one drop of X material in a fucking ocean, because the water will somehow 'remember' this effect." then you're well into the realm of snake oil.

But hey, placebo is still a thing, even for snake oil.

>>9104712
>doctors prescribe "painkillers"(overpriced heroin) all the time without giving a fuck about the patients
t. someone who has never had chronic pain

>>9104862
No dude you'll just overdose

A friend of mine made homeopathy work for him. He was doing well until he accidentally overdosed. He forgot to take his pill.

>>9104728
ECT is still one of best, safest therapy

>>9104728
In 2008, a meta-analytic review paper found in terms of efficacy, "a significant superiority of ECT in all comparisons: ECT versus simulated ECT, ECT versus placebo, ECT versus antidepressants in general, ECT versus TCAs and ECT versus MAOIs."[20]

In 2003, The UK ECT Review group published a systematic review and meta-analysis comparing ECT to placebo and antidepressant drugs. This meta-analysis demonstrated a large effect size (high efficacy relative to the mean in terms of the standard deviation) for ECT versus placebo, and versus antidepressant drugs.[21]

Compared with transcranial magnetic stimulation for people with treatment-resistant major depressive disorder, ECT relieves depression about twice as well, reducing the score on the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression by about 15 points, while TMS reduced it by 9 points.[22]

>>9104695
Lobotomy was atrocious. That's the one thing you're right about here.
>ECT was considered good
It is still considered good. Probably one of the most effective treatments available for many psychiatric issues. It's just expensive and requires long hospital stays.
>have horrible effects
every medication can have horrible effects in certain people this is literally not an argument.
>won't do the exams
insurance companies won't pay for cytochrome analysis and they certainly won't pay for whole genome sequencing.
>>9104706
>anti-psychotics for people with depression
confirmed for not knowing how antipsychotics work. spooky name though innit.
>chromosomes
XX males and XY females exist. there is more to gender than genotype.
>antibiotics
the ones that do this do it because retard normalfags get upset if they aren't prescribed anything even if they come in with a viral infection and there is literally nothing to be done.
>>9104712
>muh kickbacks
yeah this is bad but not anywhere near as common as you imply.
>painkillers are evil!!
name one other class of medicine that works anywhere near as well as painkillers.

kys brainlet.

>>9104681
shekels

>>9105638
"Homeopathy" has a precise meaning, it is not synonymous with "natural medicine."

>>9107281
My experience is that folks tend to conflate one with the other when speaking colloquially.

>>9105162
post-surgical treatment and the racket that is prescribing drugs to patients with chronic symptoms are two completely different things

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i think of homeopathy like this.

If i am deficient in iron i take an iron supplement. i could get it from my doctor or i could eat chocolate and almonds and beans, high in iron. Or i could go to the market and by OTC iron tablets.

If i sprain my ankle, i can take ibuprofen, and tylenol, or i can Rub on some arnica and take a few shots of vodka. I actually did recently sprain my ankle, pretty bad. The nerves were all fucked up, and it was so inflamed. It went numb and i freaked the fuck out, because i hadnt noticed it was numb all day. I was about to call my doctor but i instead rubbed arnica on it and the blood flow was back to normal in 5 minutes. I kept rubbing on the arnica and the numbness went away.

Anyone got dick problems? Need a viagra? Instead of having a heart attack, you could instead take a couple ginseng capsules.

Homeopathic remedies arent nearly as potent or strong as pharma, but there are some things that nature provides that the body responds to. If you understand how certain plants interact with the body, you can find any useful homeopathic remedy for you. Got a problem? Look for a natural remedy, and give it a try. Just ask the kratom tards on /r9k/. They swear off pharma pills and rely solely on kratom to deal with depression.

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>people stupid enough to fall for the homeopathy meme have gfs and I don't

>>9104681
Complete and utter bullshit. If it's not immediately obvious then you are an empty vessel of a human being and should kill yourself.

If homeopathy works doesn't that mean all earth's water is ultra dilute homeopathic concentrations of piss and shit and dead fish and nuclear waste?

>>9108131
is this bait?

>>9108178
/thread

>>9107220
>XX males and XY females exist
way to ruin a good post, faggo

>>9108347
They do...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

Sometimes, gender-fubars aren't just the results of social constructs. (Even if, yeah, most of the time, they are.)

>>9108352
well shit, learn something every day
thanks anon, i take it back

>>9108352
Can't we just differentiate between males and females based on the presence or absence of a working SRY gene?

working SRY == male
otherwise == female

>>9104695
Shock therapy is still used and is good medicine.

>>9104681
the less I think about it, the better

>>9108356
Do they have a penis? Its a male. Do they have a vagina? Its a female. Are their genitals all fucked up and they had issues with puberty? It's an unfortunate genetic disorder. There are no other questions

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>>9104681
It cures cancer so there's ought to be something to it.

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>>9105697

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>>9107310
Nonetheless... they are wrong.

Since there may be some value in a given "natural remedy," and Science Based Medicine can confirm this and add a new therapy to its repertoire, but homeopathy is nonsense, it is better not to encourage the conflation by doing it on a Prestigious Internet Science Site, such as this one.

>>9108131
None of the things you sited as alternatives to "pharma" have dick all to do with homeopathy.

If you knew this and are baiting us, nicely done.

If you did not know this be ashamed, be very ashamed.

ITT: Brainlets that don't know shit about homeopathy and only believe big pharma propaganda

>>9108155
I am trying to kill myself by homeopathic means, taking a solution that contains no trace of several extremely deadly toxins.

Should be dead any day now...

>>9108178
>If homeopathy works doesn't that mean all earth's water is ultra dilute homeopathic concentrations of piss and shit and dead fish and nuclear waste?


Yes, but under the theory behind this nonsense, at extremely low dilutions toxic materials that cause a set of symptoms will instead cure them,. because magic.

Homeopathic solutions no longer containing any trace of fish shit and nuclear waste should be a good cure for traveler's tummy and radiation poisoning.

>>9108356
"Being female means never having to say your SRY."

>>9108938
>sited

Fuck..."cited," obviously.

>>9108131
ginseng is not homeopathy, unless it's a homeopathic preparation of ginseng, in which it's just plain water

>>9108356
>Can't we just differentiate between males and females based on the presence or absence of a working SRY gene?
not that simple either
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

>>9108983
It is part of the thing that bothers me about the transgender movement, it kinda takes away from folks who have real, physical gender problems.

...also seems to me this sorta thing was common knowledge in the 80's. Hermaphrodites actually exist, they are just rare as fuck. XY females are actually a bit more common, and, for some reason, becoming more common, and while it generally isn't a day to day problem, it does involve trials and medical issues of its own.

>>9108940
Then educate us on what "real" homeopathy is.

>>9104693
underrated

>>9109158
Real homeopathy is the greatest medicine known to mankind. It combines natural medicine with minimalism and doesnt give you cancer

Homeopathy is two bullshit ideas rolled into one.

The first is the well-known one - the dilution quackery. There is no evidence for "water memory", or why it should be a thing with alcoholic solvents, or with sugar, or why only the desired substance gets potentiated... The list is endless. So many holes in that idea.

The second is completely unrelated, so I have no idea how Hahnemann came up with these two bad ideas and why he combined them. It's the idea that what causes similar symptoms must have curative properties for an illness. This lacks merit on so many levels, and clashes with everything we know about metabolism, germ theory etc. that no sane, informed person can possibly believe it.

And that's actually the most disheartening thing about homeopathy - many people do not care at all about the quack ideas behind it. They say "it just werks lol" and buy it.

>>9109180
the principle of similarity didn't start with homeopathy, it's an ancient idea that pops up in a lot of cultures

my suspicion is that it's a side effect of how much our brains like to read causal connections in random events

>>9109170
You are an idiot, I can tell by your lack of understanding on this subject yet insistence it is everyone else who doesn't get it.

>>9109180
The water memory has some cool experiments behind it though. They don't point to sustained superstructures of water molecules but while there is still salts or proteins in solution complex structures can appear. My favorite corollary is the method by which a peroxidase works by essentially lining up water and hydrogen peroxide molecules and doing a proton shuffle until the O2 and water molecule ditch. I like water chemistry which is a woefully underpopulated area of study especially with regards to solvation models in QM and MM modeling.

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>>9109170

>>9109187
Wew lad have fun taking your cancer inducing medicine while I take superior natural ones.

Homeopathy works, for some people, for some conditions.

There is something in homeopathic remedies. I'm sensitive to things, atmospheres, energies if you like, and I have had the experience of being handed a homeopathic rememdy, and being able to feel the essence of it and tell the other person what the remedy was for. Several times.

Now because this is /sci/, there will no doubt be someone posting all the reasons this couldn't possibly have happened. But it did. We're just waiting for science to catch up with a few things it doesn't have answers for yet.

>>9108977
homeopathic medicinces dont use water as a base, its all 40-70% alcohol.

What idiot would use water as a base for medicine?

>>9109180
The second idea was actually the original one. The idea was to force the body further towards death, so that the spirit would be alarmed and respond to the threat.

Hahnemann came up with the dilution quackery because he thought he noticed that less concentrated medicines had a stronger effect. The idea is that the diluted water still somehow alarms the spirit without actually pushing the body further towards death.

Replace spirit with the immune system and you have vaccines.