Do aliens really exists?

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the question is not if aliens DO exist, the real question is WHERE and in which STAGE of evolutional development they exist

>>9099733
No.
>B-but, muh Fermi's Paradox
Fuck off, brainlet.

>>9099733
Actually, an even more fundamental question is whether we'll be able to find them before the expanding universe prevents us from ever meeting

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>>9099768
>shitposting this fucking hard

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>>9099975
>high-quality images

Probably. But we will never meet any. Sorry kiddo

>>9099975
That was one of the only non-shitposts I've seen on this topic. Far too many brainlets around who think they can say anything about the probability of extraterrestrial life arising just because there's 6 gozillion planets

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>>9099659
Of course they exist. The question is why do they park their spaceships on our crops instead of using airports like normal people would? Are they hungry?

>>9099659
I'm personally not sure if we're not already under the effects of an alien intellect. After all, if human brain patterns qualify as consciousness, what the hell else could be out there studying us on a scale we couldn't even possibly imagine?
Information need not be transmitted through neurons, after all.

>>9100605
how do people even make crop circles? Seems pretty difficult, or are the aerial photos just all shopped?

>>9100612
they walk around with a piece of plywood and some rope and stomp it down

>>9100612
It's the military industrial freemasons testing advanced satellite mounted gps guided laser weapon systems. That's why crop circles were so primitive back in the 70s when our satellite laser computer capabilities were so limited.

>>9099960
Simple comparative analysis of stars. If a radio telescope sees multiple stars and a visible light telescope sees fewer or single stars. Then you have a found alien post industrial worlds

>>9100630
Dude, you could go into a field and make a crop circle yourself, you'd have to be very precise and it would take a few weeks to a couple months.

>>9100744
it would take a couple of hours, crop circles arent that large.

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>>9099659

We, Human, exist. We are the living proof that our Universe can support life.

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>>9101079
And that's just one galaxy.

>>9099733
>Assumes your wild sci-fi fantasy to be absolute truth without a shred of supporting evidence.
You missed a step kid.

>>9101079
How does that entail that there is extraterrestrial life elsewhere? I swear to fucking God, the brainlets like you on this board need to take an introductory FOL class.

>>9101484
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediocrity_principle

>>9101502
The mediocrity principle is not deductively valid. That's precisely the point.

>>9101484
>>9101395
Sorry to burst your bubble, but they exist.

>>9099733

just because the universe is infinite doesnt mean that there HAS to be other life.

assuming there is an infinite universe, and because of probability that means there's also a chance that we are the only life there is.

learn to math brainlet

>>9101502
philosophy isn't science, sorry bud

>>9101613
"Humans are special" isn't science either.
It's literally religion.

>>9101638

I never implied humans are special. but in an infinite universe with infinite possibilities there's a chance that were all there is.

It's simple physics and mathematics.

>>9101668
Why do you reckon the universe is infinite?

>>9101681
because that is what all of the evidence and best possible explanation would suggest, if you can come up with a better one I'm listening.

the universe is basically constantly expanding in all directions, this can be observed and measured in a multitude of different ways

>>9101604
fucking kek

>>9101613
To his defense, philosophically motivated heuristics are constantly employed in science.

>>9101694
True, but what I mean is speculation needs to be recognized vs things that are quantifiable.

>>9101689
>Using the fact that the universe is expanding as evidence that the universe is infinite
What?

>>9101689
How can infinite be expanding?

>>9101704
THATS WHAT INFINITE FUCKING MEANS

infinite isnt a number that can be counted..it's something that goes on forever.

>>9101701

>>9101708
>>>/x/

>>9101711

No, this is real science. do yourself a favor and educate yourself. take a class, or just read some scientific papers.

you're posting on a science board arguing vs the entirety of the scientific community and all of the evidence they have gathered.

>>9101708
>it's something that goes on forever
Forever in time or forever in space? You've caught yourself in a linguistic trap. Infinite means it has no end, not that it's expanding. The universe has an end which is moving away from you.

>>9101714
No, you're dumb and retarded.

Please go to the relevant board and leave the science to the people who know better.

>>9101718


Im probably one of the few actual scientists on this board. You might wanna stop reading pop sci because youre making yourself look stupid.

Im finishing up my phd in astrophysics this month, right in time for the solar eclipse coming up.

fuck off brainlet.

>>9101723
The absolute state of American education.

>>9101723
Is this the /sci/ equivalent of 300 confirmed kills pasta?

>>9101729
>Implying im american without evidence
You're full of assumptions without proper evidence.
you see, in science, we use facts and evidence to determine our conclusion, not our preconceptions.

>>9101737
There's plenty of evidence you're American.

>>9101729

Look , idk how else to do this. I can demonstrate this for you very simply.

We cannot calculate the size of the universe, so it cannot be finite. Therefor it MUST be infinite. there are no other options, its one or the other. Anything else is speculation and pseudoscience and as a scientist i have no interest in such things. When I am shown evidence of anything otherwise i will consider it, again i implore you to show me any evidence you would have to imply otherwise.

>>9101743

Pathetic attempts at discrediting me. Plenty of american scientists are leagues beyond your lowly reasoning skills, I'm attending oxford FYI. If you need a geography lesson: that's in the UK, lad

>>9101745
>We cannot calculate the size of the universe, so it cannot be finite.
M8, just stop.

>>9101743
>t. Yuropoor who will never get into Ivy Plus school

>>9101762
>>9101765

>>9101748
https://www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/research/astrophysics/people/students
Which one is you?

>>9101605
given an infinite timescale, a probability has infinite time to occur

>>9101605
The universr is homogeneous and isotropic on large scales.

Therefore, if life exist here (and it does), then the conditions for life to exist must be present in some other place in the universe, otherwise this would be a special part of it (breaking homogeneity)

The only alternative is that the universe is finite in size, and small enough that the chance of us being alone means a thing.

>>9101833
>first lets assume humanity is not special or unique. We are nothing. Lifes cheap. Self replicating proteins dna and simple cellular life magically appears all the time.
Atheists. Everytime.

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>>9101851
Theists.

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>>9101863
top kek this

Yes.
We are never going to see aliens because the future is not out in the stars but inwards as virtual gods in our computers.

>>9101863
How is Christ not wanting you to fill your heart with lust and waste your life to a porn addiction considered bad again?
>>9101900
>what is free will
18+

>>9101851
I see the /pol/tards have found this board, too.

>>9101691
You think the entire universe exist just for earth so you can shit post? kys retard

I have seen an alien spaceship. not gunna do story time but ya. aliens exist and they have visited earth.

>>9099659
Its not about if, its about when and where

The universe "works" toward ever increasing complexity.
Yet it uses the same patterns everywhere, to the smallest particle to the biggest galaxy, they all behave in similar ways.

>>9101985
Here is your argument listed out in two points to properly embarrass you:

>the universe has not been created for Earth
>there are aliens

As is clear to anyone, the conclusion does not follow in any way from the premise. The existence of alien species is an empirical question, and no observations have been made thus far to allow anybody to claim the existence of aliens as a fact.

To say I don't believe aliens exist does not mean I believe that they don't exist. This remains an open question. So fuck off brainlet, you of all people certainly don't have an answer to this question.

>>9099659
It's improbable for them not to exist. We exist, therefore even if we limit alien lifeforms to only DNA based life dependent on oxygen and water it's impossible that we're the only ones. The answer is either
1. They exist and
a) they're unreachable
b) they're reachable but it would take us thousands/millions of years to meet
2. They existed and died, or they will exist in future as life is created on their planet

Nothing can be proved until we discover each other or find out more about the statistics of how life is created. Not to mention it's possible they aren't conscious and alien planets are full of primitive animals and microorganisms.
Pointless arguments with obvious "answers", none of which is real.

>>9102051
>We exist, therefore even if we limit alien lifeforms to only DNA based life dependent on oxygen and water it's impossible that we're the only ones.
What shit tier university did you go to to think this reasoning is valid?

I've just opened /sci/ and this was the first thread shown - I've clicked the bait and I see all the replies... this instantly reminded me why I haven't checked this place in weeks, good bye guys- see you next year I hope summer will be entirely gone by then.

>>9101851
I'm catholic you imbecile.

>>9099659
Eventually but not now

But can we fuck 'em?

>>9099659
We have no good reason to assume they don't, but no evidence to show that they do.

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>>9099659

There's 0 evidence for the existence of aliens.

>>9099733

This is absolute bullshit. There is 0 evidence that they exist at all. When you say "stage of evolutional development" you're probably making a reference to the Kardashev scale, wich is absolute useless since we have no evidence of any civilization who is more than type 0 ever existing in our universe.

aliens aren't real.

>>9102233
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Exoplanetology was mocked for a long time, for the same reasons you're scoffing at the idea of extraterrestrial life. We could logically extrapolate the existence of other planets - after all, we have nine (eight) of them - but for a long time, no one could prove it.

>>9102233
This is as bad an argument as those of people arguing in favor of their existence. The fact that we have no evidence for the existence of aliens does not license us to assert their nonexistence, doing so would be fallacious. The epistemically responsible position is to deny that we are competent on the issue, that is to say, we do not believe that aliens exist while we simultaneously do not believe that they do not exist. In essence, we should be agnostic on the issue. There is no evidence to support the existence of aliens, but the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

>>9102239
>We could logically extrapolate the existence of other planets - after all, we have nine (eight) of them
That's not how logic works famalam.

>>9102244
Observation: Earth is teeming with life
Observation: We're here to think about ourselves
Assumption: the Solar System is not exceptional in the context of the entire universe
Corollary to the first assumption: there should be other planets in the universe that are also teeming with life - maybe even intelligent life.

>>9102233
the evidence that there must be life in other planets is that there is life in our planet.

>>9102258
The observation "We're here to think about ourselves" is not clearly sound, and I don't accept it. Likewise, your assumption is precisely the question we are asking, viz. "is the solar system unique in that is fosters life?" You can't make this an assumption when this is exactly what is being argues.

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>>9102270
>The observation "We're here to think about ourselves" is not clearly sound, and I don't accept it.

A pathological argument is not evidence.

>>9102280
Nice ad hominem. I refuse this premise because I don't see how you arrived at the observation that we are here to think about ourselves. This is not a trivial claim, it is teleological, which relies on very dubious metaphysical assumption, such as 'humanity has a cosmic purpose'. I don't even know why you included it in your argument in the first hand, since it does not play any role in what you take to be a deductive argument. The only premises playing a role in your argument are that
(i) Earth is teeming with life
(ii) The solar system, and as a result earth, is not exceptional in the context of the universe (i.e. if Earth has a property x, some other planet must also have property c)

As mentioned before, (ii) is simply stipulating the question at hand. You have proven nothing, as this is precisely the source of the disagreement.

>>9102292
*some other planet must also have property x

>>9102292
Deductive reasoning is not capable of making predictions unless the subject is already proven. Inductive reasoning must be invoked here, and it is a great predictor for as-yet-unobserved possibilities.

>>9102310
You never base inductive reasoning on a single observation. The way induction works (at least its most classical version) is that assuming you repeatedly see only white swans, you will infer that all swans must be white. But clearly, it is unreasonable to assume from only one observation, viz. that of Earth and its harboring of life, that other planets harbor life as well.

Usually, those who argue in favor of life on other planets try to make an argument reliant on probability, something like the Drake Equation. But of course, we don't have the values for many of the components of this equation. For instance, we have no idea what the average number of planets which can harbor life is, nor do we know on how many of those planets life develops.

Whether or not aliens exist is open to speculation, but speculating is all we can do. We don't have enough information to even make a guess as to how likely it is that other planets host life.

>>9102324
That's why I never made an argument in favor of saying aliens absolutely exist, because that is patently absurd because there's no proof that they do. My argument is that we do not have a good reason to assume that they don't exist that doesn't invite all kinds of uncomfortable questions in the field of statistics.

>>9102325
>My argument is that we do not have a good reason to assume that they don't exist that doesn't invite all kinds of uncomfortable questions in the field of statistics.
What uncomfortable questions are you referring to?

>>9099659
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9J13F-OlQQ

>>9102336
Fuck off you kook.
>>>/x/

>>9101993
>>9102051
>>9102267
brainlets get out REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>9102331
>What uncomfortable questions are you referring to?

How can we be the only life that exists when there are so many planets on so many solar systems in the universe where they could exist? The odds of life happening on a given world would need to exceed ~2.7x10^-24

>>9102350

totally plausible number to be honest.

>>9102350
Sure that would mean the odds of a world harboring life are minute, but of course as we agreed, there's no way to ascertain what the probability that planets host life is, so that figure is as likely as any other figure since we can only guess at this point.

>>9102350
How do you know it isn't trillions of time more unlikely even than that? Since we have to exist before we can even contemplate this question, our observation of ourselves is tainted by the obserervation selection effect.

>>9102374
>How do you know it isn't trillions of time more unlikely even than that? Since we have to exist before we can even contemplate this question, our observation of ourselves is tainted by the obserervation selection effect.

We don't, but it starts becoming statistically impossible for it to exist in more than one place below that probability.

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>>9100358
>life is primarily made of the six most abundant elements in the universe that coalesce trivially in as fewer than 100 years for amines and therefor nucleotides
>zimbillions of gorillions of tons of the six most abundant elements in the universe surround us in every direction around us for umptillion miles, smushing into each other for a bazillion minutes
>errrr brainleth thunk pobbabilly of alium are lots. they no thmarter den I errrrr

>>9102569
The fuck? Until you have a working theory for how organic compounds can become a viable population of replicators complex enough to kickstart evolution, you obviously can't say anything about how likely it is to happen.

its a honeypot phish this thread

theyre trying to find out if anyone has figured out

>theyre in the language

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>>9102644
It's trivial for life to form in an environment similar to earth given sufficiently localized quantities of hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen cyanide and ultraviolet light.

>>9102688
I don't understand why so many people will just handwave away this problem like you do here. How can you possibly know it's "trivial"? Can you justify that or demonstrate it in any way?

I mean, it almost seems like some kind of religious dogma so I guess there's no point even trying to argue about it

because it's a simple non-problem and you lack the basic understanding of organic chemistry and geology to understand it. The image I posted demonstrates the process by which sulfuric meteorites strike bodies of water, are bombarded by radiation and can form all necessary nucleic acids to create RNA and DNA, along with ribonucleotides, amino acids and lipids. Once there is enough DNA and RNA floating around in close proximity to ribonucleotides, amino acids and lipids you eventually get rudimentary replicators, bacterium, life.

>>9102755
Well, congrats on your upcoming Nobel prize, I guess.

I get the impression that the anti-alien brigade are mostly christfags who are determined to keep believing that they are singularly special.

If you find one of anything in this universe, you will find gorillions. Ants, rocks, religiotards, planets, galaxies. Things don't appear to occur in isolation. It is reasonable to infer that life is no different, and is widespread throughout the universe.

>>9102761
Yep

There are actually retards here who think ET doesn't exist somewhere? I remember when the first exoplanet discoveries were groundbreaking science. It will be the same with aliens.

>>9102349
so now the cool thing to say to be considerated smart is that there is no life in other planets.

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>>9102759
it was already proven in the Miller–Urey experiment. 1952 after the initial analysis they sealed the vials with the primordial soup which was generated in conditions which represent a young earth like planet. after miller's death in 2007, independent scientists examining the sealed vials preserved from the original experiments found that there were actually well over 20 different amino acids produced in Miller's original experiments. that was considerably more than what miller originally reported, he generated naturally occurring amino acids, and even some that you cant even find naturally on earth.


he was nominated for the nobel prize, but never won it. its like with any other academy award, someone thinks something else is of more importance to get an award for it.

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>>9102848
we simulated that experiment in school , its a rather basic process.

you have a water filled siphon, which represents the primordial ocean, then a heated reservoir which simulates water evaporating from the ocean surface into the methane-ammonia-hydrogen atmosphere where it creates clouds, represented by a condenser with a spark gap to simulate lightning storms in the clouds, then the water passes a condenser and rains down into the ocean syphon, where it causes it to overflow into the evaporator. it takes about a day until you see the first reaction, the water turns pinkish at first but you would need to let this experiment going on for a week, you need to add mercuric chloride to prevent microbiotical contamination, and finally to stop the reaction you add barium hydroxide and sulfuric acid, and then it gets evaporated to remove impurities.

just these basic conditions of having a hydrogen-ammonia-methane atmosphere, liquid water, a sun to evaporate water ,and thunder storms are enough to create the basic building blocks of life.

>>9102848
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2xly_5Ei3U

based carl sagan

>>9100149
>>9099975

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>tfw no xeno gf

>>9101613
If Aliens aren't real explain how I'm real. Checkmate.

>>9102827
That poster is neither cool or considered smart.

>>9102688
> trivial
I don't think you know what that word means.
>>9102755
You really are batshit crazy.

>>9101793
me on the left

If earth was unique, then the conditions to make it would have to be unique in turn. Then the local space would have to be unique.

From that it follows that in every point of the universe, a single one is unique and can be pointed at.

Congratulations, the presence of life only on ear means the cosmological principle is burst.

Alternatively, we are merely very rare. In an infinite universe, very rare just means "more space between instances"

>>9102233
>wich is absolute useless

bruh

Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying - Arthur C. Clarke

I just think about it.....

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>>9099659
Define Alien. If you're talking flying saucer grey illerminaty aliens, likely not. If you're talking about some tentacled horror on Europa, it's possible.

>>9102761
I'm not religious in any way, I just think people ignore the anthropic principle when they make these claims. It isn't necessary for rocks, planets or galaxies to exist in order for us to observe them, but it is necessary for abiogenesis to occur for us to observe anything. So our single observation of life arising doesn't put any upper bound on how likely it is to happen.
>>9102848
Amino acids aren't alive.

>>9103655
It's probably more likely that there are "greys" somewhere in the universe than there is any form of life on Europa.

>>9103930
What is your evidence for this claim?

>>9099659
I'd argue that life on other planets exists, but that there are a good deal of great filters on the way to life and sentience .
Meaning that there are few, or no, other civilizations in our galaxy, or at least ones that are technologically ahead of us.

>>9103965
Baseless conjecture.

>>9103971
ayy lmao detetced

>>9103971
If there were civilizations that were say, a few thousand years ahead of us their engineering projects wouldn't go unnoticed.
You wouldn't be able to hide a dyson sphere or any of its variations.

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>>9099975
he said fuck off brainlet.

humans are entirely environmentally constructed through infinite environmental factors. The reasons we do things and have have and value or logic is completely meaningless and based on so many infinite factors the possibility of a piece of self replicating DNA having the 0000.1% of our bullshit is infinity to infinity

>>9103942
Not gonna lie, I got none. It's just that life being on Europa would imply that it happens basically anywhere there's liquid water, and so the universe would be full of life pretty much anywhere you looked.

Something about that just doesn't seem intuitively right to me, but I can't really give a concrete argument against it. It could be true.

>>9103979
Your point?

>>9104022
If there were intelligent alien civilizations that are a few thousand years older than us we would have seen them by now

>>9101793
Hi, I'm Jaz (upper right). I'm not only the smartest on this board, but also cute as fuck, don't you think?

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>>9103926
>Amino acids aren't alive.

no one ever claimed that brainlet. they are merely the building blocks of life. the next step is formation of polymeric bonds or polypeptides from these monomeric amino acids, these amino acids will start reacting with each other by condensation, a chemical process by which two molecules are joined together to make a larger, more complex, molecule, usually with the loss of water. it is the basis for the synthesis of all the important biological organic nutrients from their monomers. molecules with projecting hydrogen (-H) atoms are linked to other molecules with projecting hydroxyl (-OH) groups, producing water (H2O), which then moves away from the original molecules: A-H + B-OH --> A-B + H2O.
so, in proteins, the monomers to be joined are amino-acids. the -H comes from -NH2 (the amino group) and the -OH comes from -COOH (the carboxylic acid group) at the other end of the amino acid. this results in a peptide bond (-CONH-) between the two amino acids (the product is called a dipeptide). dipeptides can in turn form more peptide bonds with each other to form a polypeptide chain. a large enough polypeptide chain is considered a primary protein. the exact same principle applies to the other two organic nutrients. in lipids (fats and oils) glycerol provides up to three -OH groups to react with -COOH on so-called fatty acids. The links are called ester bonds. in carbohydrates, the monomers are monosaccharides like glucose. both of the groups that combine are -OH groups. this results in a disaccharide. the bond, in this case, is called a glycosidic bond. these links can also be extended many times, resulting in the production of polysaccharides.
given enough time, more and more complex organic nutrients will start to be produced. that means more complex proteins, lipids and carbohydrates with the capacity to self-replicate. this polymerization of nucleotides gave rise to RNA molecules

Anyone who has even the beginning of an inkling of a notion of an idea about how absurdly large the observable universe is, knows that statistically there must be life elsewhere.

>>9099768
The Fermi Paradox pretty much confirms there are no aliens any where near by.

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>>9105297
>Fermi Paradox


the fermi paradox is based on an inappropriate use of propositional logic. when recast as a statement in modal logic, the paradox no longer exists, and carries no probative value.

it confirms nothing.

>>9104373
I am sure you understand this but your explanation of condensation reactions makes it seem like you don't want to acknowledge the reaction mechanisms behind them

>>9105410
the reaction mechanism behind it is simple clay sediment. clay minerals act as a catalyst to start the condensation reaction

>>9104895
the problem is, intelligent life may be very rare in the universe

The universe is so big that there must be aliens somewhere. There's probably many species out there, and many of them are superior to us but just don't care about visiting lesser species such as humans.

>>9104373
I'm aware of speculations about how organic molecules could eventually form themselves into a viable population of RNA-based replicators or something similar, but as far as I was aware there is no solid theory for how this happens, and it certainly hasn't ever been demonstrated.

I do not have any expertise in biology or chemistry though so I obviously won't argue this point. If the process is actually well understood then I apologise and retract what I've said, but it seems like solving how abiogenesis occurs should have been a pretty big deal that most people would have heard about.

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They're not sending their best and brightest, folks. They just aren't. They are probing anuses, they are abducting cattle and I assume some of them are good ayys. We're gonna build a force field to keep the ayys out and the ayys will pay for it.

Believe me, I know force fields. It will be the biggest, best force field within 10,000 light years. It will make the force field they have on Tau Ceti E look like it's made out of Legos. And after we build the force field we are sending every ayy that is here illegally back to their homeworld. It's time to make Earth great again.

I spoke to their leader, their head guy the other day, and he said "President Trump, you can't build a force field and we certainly aren't paying for it." You know what I said to him? I said "Draxzlor, the force field just got 10 miles higher."

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>>9106048
lost

>>9103252
The kardeshev scale is complete garbage, any sufficiently advanced civilization would find a much better energy alternative with near limitless power (fusion, quantum vacuum energy, etc.,) long before getting to type 3. A type 3 civilization will never exist because there is no reason for it. Its retardedly excessive and unnecessary to use up an entire galaxy's resources for any reason.

>>9106048
I'm gonna copy this for pastarity

Ayy lmao

>>9101916
The utter and absolute arrogance of fundamentalists, ladies and gents.

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>>9101502
>>9101613
The standard cosmology model (Lambda-CDM) assumes the Copernican Principle. We're not special faggot, give it up and accept aliens are real.

Yes.
Universe is infinitely expanding
Life in it occurred at least once
Therefore, it will occur an infinitely expanding number of times
Even if we aren't first, life will eventually appear somewhere too

We can at least assume that each cluster of galaxies has at least 1 planet with life on it.

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>>9109133
>each cluster of galaxies has at least 1 planet with life on it


and that's already a mindbogglingly large number. even if you say 1 out of 1000 galaxies has 1 habitable planet in one of its billions of solar systems with life is already quite pessimistic. how many solar systems have we observed just in our galaxy? and there are approximately 100 billion other galaxies just in our observable range, and more beyond that. it's absolutely crazy to assume there isn't at least more than one primitive lifeform scratching its non-anthropomorphic ass right now.

>>9106401
also, nobody would ever need more than 640k of ram

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>>9101723
(I hope you know you're arguing with a really bad troll. It's bleedingly obvious.)