drugs

I've heard contradictory things about the after-effects of stimulants, that they give brain damage and that they actually help develop the brain to be better functioning overall. Which is true? What drugs are safe to use as far as the mind goes? Psychedelics are good or bad?

>>9079489
amphetamines (Paul Erdős used them)
caffeine (Mathematicians turn coffee into theorems)
micro-dosing psychs (probably still bad if predisposition to schizophrenia)

Anything can be bad if you use too much or use for too long.

The artificial reward of the drug to the brain can mess with dopamine (responsible for learning).

It might be wise to put-off using them until your brain is fully developed (mid to late twenties)

If you are concerned/uncertain about safety, it's probably better to err on the side of caution and not do them.

>>9079606
>Anything can be bad if you use too much or use for too long
Paul Erdos used amph his whole life. What does /sci/ think of amphetamine's effects on the brain?

Unfortunately I only have access to ritalin anyway

>>9079489

Aspirin.

>>9079493
I'd imagine long term, (very) minor brain damage and repair could be like simulated annealing for your brain cells.

ME
TH

Use a wide variety of different drugs that work on different parts of the brain.

>>9079719
lol

>>9079489
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zcrb1ff1xs

>>9079730
Anything is poisonous in large enough quantities. Inversely, everything is safe in small enough quantities.

>>9079489
Krokodil

>>9079745
bew whoop

>>9079686
Been taking amphetamines and ritalin for about 10 years, switching between them when I need to travel to a country where one is illegal or just want a change due to tolerance or whatever.
I don't think the whole burning out your pleasure receptors is real, at least not at therapeutic doses.
My brain did break eventually however and now I need to take antipsychotics daily.
Might be unrelated though since I've got a family history of insanity.

>>9079768
>>9079768
>I don't now how to refute this logic that goes against my emotion-based beliefs

>>9079489
Alcohol

>>9079793
The>>>was>>>logical
>>>post>>>not>>>>>

>>9079489
fuck off druggies

Took vyvanse for the first time today, and it's literally the most focused I've been in years. Am I retarded? I've been getting this feeling lately, that I've become dumber and dumber as I get older (I'm 23). After talking vyvanse, I put in the most honest 8 hours of work in the past 5 years. I could focus properly, and when my mind would start to wander, I could control it easily. Am I just a brainlet?

>>9079745
Prions: not even once

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creutzfeldt%E2%80%93Jakob_disease

>>9079489
>what drugs don't have a net negative impact on cognitive functioning in the brain from long term semiregular use?

Most of them.

strychnine

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>>9079489
Tryptamines and ß-carbolines have been shown to increase neuroplasticity, neurogenesis and regulate neurotransmitters, helping to treat psychological disorders like depression, anxiety, PTSD and addictions.

There is known (or a very very high) LD50 for most of these substances

https://search.proquest.com/openview/435caf94bf3800ed6ce1d8219e29249f/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=44265

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5509699/

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/etd/166/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/attachments/47337/the-ten-lessons-psychedelic-psychotherapy-rediscovered.pdf

>>9080439
Tldr what are those links senpai

>>9080439
>heroin
>harm to users
DROPPED

Opiates cause addiction, constipation, and MAYBE hearing loss, that's it.

Its the user that causes self-harm, not the drug.

>>9079865
It's called ADD. Get that checked out.

>>9080679
>its the users not the drugs
>implying that the drug was not a root cause

Top fucking kek. You are retarded my son

>>9080712
>food causes obesity

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>>9080722
>not realizing food and water is a required necessity to maintain proper bodily functions
>not realizing such drugs that cause self of societal harm are due to the drug itself as without its presence nout would occur on account how it influences your thoughts
>yes its partly due to the user but not a root cause

>>9079745
Just one AIDS virus can fuck your life up (but generally your argement is correct)

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>>9080679
kill yourself my man

>>9080679
The addiction is pretty bad though
I think that's the most important factor for that rating
Also there is the danger of respiratory depression
David Nutt is educated in psychiatry, neurology and pharmacology and got fired from his position as British chairman of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) when he published this evidence based research and didn't support official illegal "drugs bad/ legal drugs good" position

here is the study (avoid paywall with sci-hub dot biz):
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673610614626

>>9080667
>research about therapeutic potential of psychedelics and their neurophysiology
>psychedelic psychotherapy is very effective
>psychedelics help neurons make new connections and break habits (disorders, addictions etc.)

>>9080712
yeah the root cause of doing heroin is heroin

well now wait a darn minute

>>9079489
>take a substance that enhances/inhibits your cognitive function by affecting your brain chemistry and forcing your brain to seek chemical balance
>expect it not to have any kind of negative impact
This is why crashes hangovers and withdrawals are a thing

>>9080735
Addiction is not harm like brain damage is harm

Acute addiction is completely reversable

>>9080749
Yeah, heroin in sub lethal doses is non toxic
The addiction is influencing the consumers life though and messes with your endorphine and dopamine system.
Harm =/= physiological damage

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>>9080730
>If you lack self-control with food, it's your fault
>If you lack self-control with drugs, you dindu nuffin mang

>implying obesity doesn't cause personal and societal harm
>implying the lack of a particular drug prevents other addictive behavior
>implying heroin addicts will stop being prone to addiction if all heroin in the world suddenly disappeared

>>9080780
/pol/ teir response

hilariously misguided. dont attempt factual statements after reading a few things and thinking you are informed. You ARE /pol/ teir, exaggerating and trying to spook the reader into submitting to your beliefs.

Exercise messes with your endorphine and dopamine system

The drug does not influence the consumers life more than they let it, they would be living like that with or without the drug.

To say a heroin user digs in his arm fucking his veins with a needle is because of heroin is clearly an opinion held by some PHD far away in an office somewhere, speculating after reading the farts of someone just like him. It is not science.

Ecstasy/Molly
t. Mentally Ill

>>9080731
>One AIDS virus
That multiplies into many

>>9079489
Amphetamines
Psychedelics

>>9080799
Regular opiate consumption overstimulate your dopamine receptors, making it harder to experience satisfaction through over stimuli; for example exercise, eating or sex.

This influences your habits and in users that have problems to begin with, are likely to withdraw from social life and isolate themselves and not pursue more healthy methods of getting that dopamine.

Once habituation is there, withdrawal becomes pretty nasty and painful, making it hard to stop.

The stronger an opiate is, the easier it is to lose control over your consumption habits.

For example Fentanyl > Diacetylmorphin > Morphin > Kratom

All are opiates, but Fentanyl is the most dangerous because it is the strongest, can result in a stronger addiction and withdrawal symptoms and is easier to OD.

Also I think the study considers reality of users: black market, associated criminality etc.

If it would be legal the rating would probably drop.

What is /sci/'s opinion on nootropics i.e. the racetam family?

>>9080787
>lets assume there exists no drug such as one aforementioned of start of debate
>there exists not trace of such and all alike drugs
>assume everything else equal
>no more self harm due to drug because no drug

Cheg mage, son

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>>9080880
90%+ of that is opinion. coupled with the reddit style i dont feel it deserves any post greater than this.

why tf is /sci/ a drug board

>>9080930
Yeah, that's opinion based on talking with addicts and knowledge of relevant research.

So what is your opinion and what do you base it on?

>>9080983
why do you parrot malformed opinions of facts, as facts

Everything you said should've started with "I think", except 3 and 1 before the comma

>>9080989
Everything you contributed to the conversation is assumptions about what boards and websites I visit.

So what is your point of view on the issue?

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>>9080989
PS: here is how the study evaluates harm to self and others

>>9080949
neurochemistry is fun

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>>9080924
But that doesn't address the addictive personality or situations in life that drive people to addiction. You're just opening the doors to replacing one addiction with another.

Look at the affects porn or sugar have on the brain; they're very similar to that of many recreational drugs. They can both be very addictive, but aren't necessarily harmful if they're enjoyed in moderation.

>/find 'nicotine'
>'no results found'

Nicotine has neuroprotective effects. Just chew nicotine gum and don't smoke because obviously smoking is bad for you.

>>9081347
nicotine replacement stuff is way too expensive.

>>9081347
Nicotine isn't exactly great on its own

>>9080731
we're talking about non-biological substances here

>>9081354
How about smoking tobacco from a pipe? You absorb less nicotine but you're not burning up your lungs. And organic tobacco won't have the asbestos or BPA you can find in cigarettes.

>>9079489
How detrimental are passing out completely and having black outs (alcohol) for your brain?

>>9081357
>Nicotine isn't exactly great on its own
As in: Nicotine isn't a pleasurable substance alone, or nicotine isn't a healthy substance?

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>>9081370
>You absorb less nicotine but you're not burning up your lungs. And organic tobacco won't have the asbestos or BPA you can find in cigarettes.
Surely the tobacco itself is the worst, most dangerous part of smoking. The asbestos, BPA and nicotine are negligible in comparison. Smoking from a pipe will ruin your teeth, give you a hairy tongue and even kill you faster than any other avoidable death causing substance.

>>9081035
You have a meth user, she picks at her face until there are scabs, and picks those as well.
She applies makeup to cover up the damage, but resumes picking a few minutes later, so she re-applies makeup.

Here you have physical, psychological and likely social harm that result from this behavior. (That likely would be labled drug related)

She goes to rehab, stops using meth, and stops picking.

Years later (sober from drugs) she has an anxiety attack, forms an anxiety condition and starts picking at her face until there are scabs.


How can you say the picking she was doing on meth was drug-related, when it could be from an underlying condition.


My point is you cant say social, psychological, or physical harm is drug related, with certainty, without a full, completely honest history of the subject. Which is often hard to do, because many drugs cause distortion to memory.


it's a crap-shoot catchall to start labeling drug-related harm on anything but a biological level. we do not know enough

>>9081433
Invariably when you smoke tobacco in any way you're sucking burnt plant matter into your lungs. This is where the majority of carcinogens and tar comes from.
The only reason potheads don't get the same significant rates of lung and throat cancer is because they smoke significant;y less often.

>>9081433
>Surely the tobacco itself is the worst, most dangerous part of smoking

It's not. It's the fact that you're taking it into your lungs.

>>9081464
Is there any proven safe way of enjoying tobacco? - e.g. snus, chewing tobacco, dipping tobacco. As far as I'm aware you're wrong because the tobacco itself contains carcinogens. Chewing tobacco is linked to oral cancer, for example.

The fact that a famous mathematician did a particular drug doesn't make it harmless. These guys are starting off with a lot of brain power and can afford to lose a bit and still be great.

Paul Erdos did amphetamines, sure. Plenty of other mathematicians were alcoholics. Draw your own conclusion

>>9081520
there was a thread a while ago about this on /fit/, but the jist of it was that there are unflavored varieties of vegetable glycerin based e-liquids that can be applied topically in a manner not dissimilar to regular nicotine patches

>>9081438
Why

do

you

keep

doing

this?

>>9081520
You can smoke tobacco without taking it into your lungs.

As for chewing tobacco, it causes problems because people keep that shit in their mouths for 18 hours a day. Everything is going to cause problems under that circumstance. If people put it in their mouths for 2 minutes every 3 hours, it would be perfectly fine.

>>9079686
>only

>>9081433
This is sarcasm, right?

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>>9079489
Coffee

>>9081588
>if I say something it must be true

>>9080684
Doesn't that stuff have to be present during childhood to get any diagnosis?

If you want to do drugs there's already something wrong with your brain lol

>>9083363
Nah that shit decreases learning in the hippocampus

>>9083363
Caffeine dependency basically removes any benefits of continual usage of caffeine, with dependency developing in a couple of weeks of daily usage. You basically get to the point where your dose of caffeine is required to function at the same levels as non-drinkers. It's best used as a slight performance enhancer on infrequent occasions (i.e. exams) if you're looking for any benefits from its use.

>>9083359
Not at all, chum. Tobacco contains carcinogens, there is no way to consume tobacco without doing some form of harm. Tobacco-specific nitrosamines are confirmed carcinogens. Saying there's ''less nicotine'' is a negligible detail.

>>9083439 Most studies actually show the opposite effect, when speaking in terms of infrequent consumption. Suffice to say, long-term caffeine ingestion can't have good effects on your learning. Infrequent doses, ie once every couple of week, would be beneficial if anything.

>>9081535
Reddit spacing retards think /sci/ is their safe space because we're all atheists.

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>>9083506
I know it contains carcinogens, but is tobacco smoke really more dangerous than BPA? BPA significantly increases risk of cancer as well, but has the added harm of being a xenoestrogen that can fuck up your metabolism, fertility, lungs, and even dopaminergic system.

And by "less nicotine" I meant you would need to smoke more pipe tobacco to get the same amount of nicotine you would get from a cigarette, considering the membranes in your mouth and sinuses don't absorb nicotine as readily as your lungs do. My point was that smoking from a pipe is a less unhealthy way of getting nicotine into your system than cigarettes, if you can't afford nicotine gum or patches.

>>9083563
>>9081535
I will post however i want you stupid fag.

if it happens to end up spaced out, it's a plus that it triggers your autism

>>9084050
Stop

Doing

This

You

Piece

Of

Shit

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>>9084050
You

are

not

on

reddit

>>9081354
>>9081347
if you want to absorb a shit load of nicotine, vaping will do it.

i used to smoke about 10g tobacco a day, unfiltered. switched to vaping, and now i go through about ~50mg per day, it only costs about ~$15 per month.

>>9084052
Dude,
chill
the fuck out

>>9081438
Behold the world's dumbest man

>>9084354
if you are going to refer to me use the proper pronouns, faggot

>>9084050
I don't care about reddit spacing but you just kinda strike me as a dumbass retard. Sorry

>>9084358
i am struggling to live with the statements you have made about me

>>9084359
I'm sorry I don't mean to offend, I just don't like your posting in this thread

>>9084361
sounds like it is in your best interest to get over it

you can't stop me

>>9083428
No. It's most common in children because children are naturally a little aloof, because they're kids. Thus parents like to assume that because they can't control their brat, (or if they aren't how the parent wants) they take them to the doctor. The doctor immediately agrees it's ADD/ADHD and prescribes a mildly expensive drug.

Parents keep paying, kid slowly loses his shit - if it's adderall, it's a medical amphetamine. Guess what that does to the brain of a developing child? Never the same.

>>9079745
Dimethyl Mercury.

>>9080780
So olney's lesion only been observed in lab animals? Never in humans?
Genuinely curious.
>Captcha: choose jaguars
>Two leopards, a cheetah and a black puma

>>9079489
>Government gets scared of drugs
>People can no longer do research on them openly
>Very important questions like "Can psychedelics be used to treat pre-existing mental conditions?" go unanswered
>Politicians kinda-sorta realize they fugged up and are finally starting to greenlight research into psychoactive drugs and their medical uses
>We're 50 years behind then we should be, all because a bunch of dumb-ass soccermoms had ANOTHER moral panic attack

THIS is why I'm such a strong advocate for libertarianism...

>>9079745
So you're saying I should take
1. A small line of coke
2. 1 mushroom
3. A single toke a speed

and

4. A can of Redbull

All at the same time? Sounds legit.

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>>9084650
Actually it was more of a /pol/ tier anti beaner, blacks (cannabis) and hippies (psychedelics) agenda, combined with pseudochristian puritan morality, economic interests (fiber, pharmaceuticals...) and a lot of police sitting around without a job after alcohol prohibition proofed to be retarded.

The soccer moms were useful tools at best

But yes, we are embarrassingly far behind on research about this topic and the most extensive material is up to 60 years old (Hofman, Shulgin, Grof etc.) but it is getting back on track finally.

>>9084265
I like nicotine and puff on my friends vapes when I'm out but then I bought my own

After puffing on it a little per day after a week my lungs felt like shit and I got rid of it. I'm sure smoking and vaping for a long time you get normalized to feeling shitty lungs all the time and forget how breathing should be naturally

>>9083439
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v17/n2/full/nn.3623.html?foxtrotcallback=true

Really makes my neurons fire

>>9084676
>a /pol/ tier anti beaner, blacks (cannabis) and hippies (psychedelics) agenda
conspiracy theory tier. Are you gonna start sperging about how prisons are a massive plot to keep blacks enslaved and crack was introduced by the FBI to destroy black families?

>>9081520
Chewing tobacco and snuff is safer than smoking cigarettes on the simple fact that the turnover rate for cells in your mouth is extremely high. Actual cancer rates for smokeless tobacco are actually pretty low, especially when compared to inhaling tobacco smoke. That being said, there is still a chance where you'll get mouth cancer and have to have part of your jaw removed. If you wanna roll those dice, go for it. It's also an objectively disgusting habit that a majority of girls will be turned off by. If you are a girl, dipping will immediately destroy any chance of having a significant other. It's foul.

>>9084720
I've actually done independent "research" on those "crackpot" theories back in college, and in the shorthand, my conclusion was basically "they're entirely possible, and it most likely may have happened at one point in history in some other context, but it is unlikely that it has happened here in America".

So, yeah. I also did that shit with the 9/11 attacks, and all my research boiled down to "it is entirely possible and well within the reach of reality, but is unlikely that this is what happened on the day of the attack".

Basically, all I'm saying is that it probably didn't happen, but don't be so quick to dismiss any theory as "fanciful" or "illogical" without having done the damn research yourself. I was quite surprised to find out a few things during the few months I spent doing independent research on various ex-secret government projects and stuff.

>>9084720
Are you trying to deny that US politics likes to target groups they don't like?

I'm not saying that they didndonuffin but you trying to defend insane, pseudo moralistic, expensive and ineffective politics is on a similar level.

Crack is the Cocaine Import Agency not FBI and they still make a lot from the drug trade. Look up how Opium production was in Afghanistan under Taliban rule and under US control.

Here's an article about it
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/10/gary-webb-dark-alliance_n_5961748.html

>>9084652
Yes if 1 and 3 are pure and you don't have a pussy heart

>>9084824
My point wasn't "your body can't handle it"; my point was "what the fuck is the point of putting all that in your body all at the same time?"

For what ungodly purpose? What could you possibly hope to gain?

>>9079686
>I only have access to ritalin
I only have access to Tradea, concerta's spic knock off, you ungrateful fuck.

>>9084835
Wombo combing drugs gives very unique experiences. There are known toxic combinations like cocaine and alcohol (but how many people do coke in a context where there is not alcohol)

If you use your brain and choose your combos in a smart manner you are fine

>>9084821
>I'm not saying that they didndonuffin but you trying to defend insane
Lolnope. You're just making massive assumptions because you don't or cant conform my argument, so you put me in a box and argue against the label on the box instead.

I'm not defending any policy, there's just no proof that any of the policies were introduced to fuck over whatever minority you like the best

>>9085657
confront*

How do I know if I have ADHD or just shit motivation?

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dank bud will make you stronger and increase your mathematical ability, trust me on this my man

also cures cancer

>>9079782
>Might be unrelated though
Probably not. Mesolimbic pathway and dopaminergic system distortion in general are well known aspects of psychosis, false sensory routing, increased false memory generation and storage. Etc.

>Source
Experienced amphetamine psychosis. Most of the stuff from that period, in retrospect, might not have been real. I don't know if I was truly capable of short range mind control and biasing people's behaviors. Etc. The belief stemmed from much earlier, but I began to put them into active use shortly before, and heavily during. It is also not easy to delineate psychosis from not, temporally speaking.

Nonetheless, there were many things I experienced that happened to be in contexts (like tests) that showed them to be likely incorrect. I also felt as though there was a cavern under my house and that I could dig through a second story floor, revealing a space in some other "dimension", with artifacts unknown. Though I never tried.

>>9083363
Coffee = regular consumption, generally. Which eliminates any benefit.

You're better off with guarana seeds, and occasional consumption. Guarana has additionally been shown to trigger apoptosis in BRAF-melanoma cells. The very cancer that killed my father while this sat unused on my desk for many months, along with various essential oils, and tetramethylpyrazine and many others.

Alternatively just consume acute doses of fermented cacao. Get the theobromine, some pleasant quinones and other metabolic byproducts. Elevates intracellular cAMP, upregulates BDNF, makes the body better at lipolysis, ketosis, etc.

>>9079693
are u an idiot? acetainophen is the reason for trumps 'muh painkillers addiciton'

>>9084893
>>9081772
sorry senpaitachi I realise Im lucky

I still would rather be on amphetamine, since it has such a long history of use.

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>>9086577
would you not

>>9080679
this anon has a point, it's not helpful attributing the human behaviors that follow from addiction to the drugs because we're talking about what objectively is harmful here, not subjective crap that includes addiction-prone people seeking drugs to abuse

>>9079686
>Only ritalin
That stuff is pretty damn good and damn hard to get when no one takes your mental health seriously.

>>9080743
I fail to see your point. I'm not a neuroscientist so I don't know if there's a negative feedback loop with neurotransmitors or how they work, but I don't see why intuitively both drugs that enhance AND inhibit cognitive function should all have negative impacts, either long term or short term. I read a study about methylphenidate, amphetamine and modafinil couple months back and no one knows for sure but they theorized that (and this varied with age: for example they're all bad for brain development as a child) amphetamine and methylphenidate could potentially help the brain, while modafinil probably has a negative long term effect.

I tried adrafinil and phenylpiracetam. I dont think it improved my cognitive abilities much, but it did increase my sociability and motivation for about 6 hours hard before slowly winding down. Only downside is slight headache and the veins in my eyes becoming super pronounced as it was winding down.

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>>9080439

Ecstasy is less harmful than Cannabis? Get the fuck out of here with this shit.

Are there ANY drugs that won't fuck you up if you have schizophrenia?

>>9088435
Nicotine!
Probably barbs or benzos, and opiates that dont bind to receptors other than mu and maybe delta

just a guess

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>>9081535
people have been doing this ever since 4chan began

(way before reddit was made)

I used to bosh ritalin and play counter-strike until i came down every day for a year. Pretty sure it made me retarded.
LSD - makes you retarded and burnt out
Ketamine - no negative effects on cognitive function
MXE - same as ketamine
DMT - there is no way you can do this semiregularly without burning out
Psilocybin - makes you less retarded than LSD but still makes you retarded if you do it too often
Amphetamine - the increase in brain function is worth the tradeoff of long term retardation
Methamphetamine - fucks you up long term but if you ever had a bright idea and wanted to work on it for 20 hours then meth is your friend
Benzos - don't get addicted because benzo addiction is hell. Taking a benzo recreationally feels like having 4 drinks, losing 40 iq points and having a feeling of heavy weights on your eyelids. Great for coming down from meth though.
Opiates - I don't enjoy them personally but they aren't neurotoxic
Ecstasy - extremely neurotoxic
Coke - extremely cardiotoxic, not so neurotoxic
Crack - fucking great, everyone should try crack once in their life

>>9088908
>everyone should try crack once in their life
Including criminals and schizos amirite

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>>9080679
yeah there's absolutely no way to die from using heroin, you're so fucking right my dude

>>9079782
What happened when your brain broke?

>>9079865
Interesting. All I have is focus. I'm mildly exaggerating, but I can only absorb a single stream of information for periods of time. Like, I'll often walk somewhere, like the store or something, and will get there with no working memory of actually getting there; I had spent that whole time in my thoughts. I'm very capable of focusing on school for long periods of time at least.

>>9079745
Bullets are safe for your brain. They do not typically gain mass when traveling at high speeds.

>>9088208
A pure, measured dose of MDMA is an extremely safe drug to take in moderation. If you think molly is bad for you it's because you're popping pills every week your dealer made from adderall mixed with rat poison.

>>9088908
>Ecstasy - extremely neurotoxic
Jesus christ are you seriously this ret-
>Crack - fucking great, everyone should try crack once in their life
And suddenly, all my questions disappeared.

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>>9079489
Cannabis shits good man twin studies already debunked all of sci's myths

>>9079489

DPH

>>9086605

acetaminophen =/= acetylsalicylic acid

>>9086588
Amphetamine psychosis was the happiest period of my life. I kind of liken it to when Zaphod Beeblebrox goes in that Infinite Perspective chamber and decides he's the most important thing in the universe.

>>9091908
Yeah, fuck off. It's been years and I still get the swirly vision.

>>9079865
>vyvanse
I took Vyvanse once.
First I got the urge to masturbate.
After I was done with that, I got agitated and almost euphoric. Started talking more than usual and an urge to interact with people, party or whatever.

It had the exact opposite effect on me!
I couldn't focus in the slightly.
Instead I got the urge to do a lot of unproductive and irrelevant things.

Has someone else here ever had a similar experience? Nootropics having the opposite effect.

>>9091985
Took Vyvanse one time, was up three or four days with the fourth of July in the middle. Kept seeing fireworks in my periphery. Spent hours just going down conspiracy theory rabbitholes.

Overall, I got distracted a lot, but was very focused on the pointless BS I was involved in.

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Is there any scientific research whatsoever that supports the idea that LSD has negative long-term effects on cognitive functioning?

I know that MDMA permanently decreases the amount of serotonin available in the brain, but I have found nothing scientific whatsoever that suggests LSD or other psychedelics have negative impacts on the brain.

Can a non-brainlet help/back me on this?

>>9092032
As far as I'm aware, it is entirely possible to suffer psychological damage from LSD, but there is no definitive evidence of physical damage.

>>9092034
What sort of psychological damage? I don't give a shit about having mild psychosis or flashbacks or any of the other low risk side effects, I mean would it impair your ability to function as you normally do?

I'm going to be a college freshman soon and I've been wanting to try LSD for a while, but I don't want to do something that is going to permanently fuck my brain up, like MDMA.

>>9092075
A bad LSD trip lasts forever and you might end up calling the cops or taking suicide

>>9088908
>Crack - fucking great, everyone should try crack once in their life
WTF! . . . Is this crackhead serious?

>>9084698
Yeah vaping is in no way a healthy thing to do. But as someone who used to smoke 30 a day my lungs feel a fuckton better than they did.

Coffee - when you're feeling groggy and want to get some energy
Beer - when you're thinking too much and need to dull down thinking (1-2 beers is enough)
Weed - when you're in desperate need to completely relax
LSD - when you want to completely ruin your brain
Water - for staying hydrated

>>9092075
Imagine your emotions are heightened by an order of magnitude and you experience a bad trip. You might spend years with periods of anxiety similar to PTSD. The likelihood of this happening is increased if you have a tendency toward mental illness and/or if you take large dosages. But, all in all, you're probably fine. Most people who drop acid do so without lasting negative repercussions.

>>9092107
Why does lsd ruin your brain I've read that it can make you quite cynical. Like you have conversations and view them as meaningless in the grand scheme of things cause you are a tripnut

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>>9092032
>>9092075
A bad LSD trip can trigger some psychotic episodes if you have a history of mental health issues or they run in your family. Schizophrenia and autism especially. But if it's something like anxiety, depression, or ADD, it's not that much of an issue. Regardless, you should start with a low dose for your first time.

And MDMA doesn't become seriously neurotoxic unless you don't wait in between doses. Waiting 1-3 months between rolls gives your brain enough time to fully recuperate and the long-term damage is negligible as long as you're not mixing it with other serotonergic drugs or alcohol.

>>9080679
you forgot the brain damage from not breathing enough and also the death from not breathing enough.

>>9092107

>weed to relax

lucky you, weed just makes me anxious, paranoid and self-conscious

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>>9092129
I guess it depends on the person and on how hard you're tripping. I've heard stuff like your personality might get completely annihilated, and that it takes a long time to recover.
And from looking at brain scans of a person on LSD, doesn't it seem improbable that your brain isn't altered in any way?

>>9092135
>And MDMA doesn't become seriously neurotoxic unless you don't wait in between doses.
While this is true in most cases, I wouldn't count on it. I know quite a few people who have dropped MDMA only once and are now completely fucking insane.

>>9092179
Yes I've heard similar something must happen but why doesn't it cause serotonin syndrome like mdma I can't figure it out 5ht2a is a serotonin receptor not sure

>>9092179
Please show us the dosages administered in that picture, otherwise your "evidence" amounts to fuck all.

>>9092092
This happens so rarely that it might as well be a non-factor. Especially if you take doses that are <200mg

>>9092120
No one in my family has a history of mental illness, but I do get pretty bad anxiety when I am in public or around people. It seems an ego-death triggered by LSD would actually help my anxiety though, wouldn't it?

Also, in your opinion, how would ego death affect someone's academic performance?

>>9092206
Because he's full of shit, that brain scan is useless and only depicts heightened dopamine levels while on LSD.

You won't find a single scientific study with strong evidence to support the notion that LSD permanently affects the serotonin available in your brain.

>>9092211
I'm not saying his brain scan is right but in asking why doesn't it. It definitely affects receptors that deal with serotonin

>>9092207
Ego death actually really helped me to understand set theory and a lot of the rules it is based on. I literally understood Godel's Incompleteness theorem for the first time in a deep trip.

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>>9092166
Have you tried an indica strain?

>>9092198
>I know quite a few people who have dropped MDMA only once and are now completely fucking insane.
Do you have any details on that? From what I've read overdosing fries your short-term memory but I never heard anything about this. Insane how?

>>9092287

Yeah, Indica is better I guess. Still not great. It's a shame, I used to really love weed but I just can't usually enjoy it anymore.

>>9092287
Indica and sativa was debunked a while ago it's believed that terpenes determine the effect of a strain not simply indica vs sativa. Sure there are clear differences like leaf structure, height, as well as flowering time but they also have different terpenes. Most cannabis is highly hybridized now bred to finish in as little as 8 weeks of flower.

https://merryjane.com/culture/sativa-indica-cannabis-classification

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>>9079489 Well what about those "smart drugs"? But it seems the good ones haven't been around for long enough to answer your question with any firmly backed statement. But from what I heard so far there's at least one which has been around for over 30 years and is known to improve cognitive functioning. Damn I really would love to get more scientific insights into these pieces of cognitive catalysm.

Humans (neuro/biologically) don't age as quickly as scientific progress I guess?

>>9092135
>autism
>autism
do you know how autism works friend

>>9092287
not anon but i knew a guy that OD'd on MDMA 5 times and ended up clinically insane, as in locked in an asylum. He became completely delusional and was constantly having all kinds of hallucinations and paranoia attacks, usually correlating with his short term paranoia when he was using.
anyway if it was up to me the poor guy should have been put down, he's still locked in there completely fucking insane

>>9079489
Cocaine is pretty good. In small doses, of course. Don't be a retard who snorts lines. Just buy a gram and then do little doots for 24 hours. I do this and it makes me so productive.

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>>9092316
>do little doots

>>9084050
This

You can troll and talk

At the same time

You're making it worse by

Pointing it out

>>9092430
Point

it

out

how?

I'm curious about this psychedelic thing still if someone would care to enlighten me. Why can't they cause serotonin syndrome if they directly affect it. Also why isnt the mechanism of action fully understood yet?

>>9092430
>>9092454
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>>9092480
>Why can't they cause serotonin syndrome if they directly affect it.
Don't know for sure, but my guess is that it doesn't affect serotonin levels that strongly. Mixing it with MDMA is a fairly common combo, and that doesn't cause serotonin syndrome either.

>Also why isnt the mechanism of action fully understood yet?
There hasn't been that much research done on the topic, unfortunately.

>>9092480
Found this on wikipedia:
"The psychedelic drugs psilocin/psilocybin, DMT, mescaline, and LSD are agonists, primarily at 5HT2A/2C receptors.[63][64][65] The empathogen-entactogen MDMA releases serotonin from synaptic vesicles of neurons.[66]".
I would guess it might have something to do with this, but I'm not a neuroscientist

>>9079489
Literally none if you're using natural, healthy cognitive functioning as a baseline,

Any of you tried psilocybin? Pros/Cons?

I need something ANYTHING to help me focus and help me sleep as little as possible.

Any ideas?

I already bough Adrafinil (metabolized into modafinil by the liver) but hasn't arrived.

I'm done with caffeine, been thinking to start smoking...

Anything more effective?

I don't want to kill myself, I must become who I should have been...

>>9092712
Modafinil, or armodafinil which Ive used more and is more potent, will wear off very quickly with the "super focus" aspect.

It will make you not tired and energized but not give you super focus

>>9092730
Adrafinil should last longer (due to having to be metabolized) right?

Also, I don't know if I want to get into illegal stuff, I'd rather risk using unscheduled stuff...

Should I just go get an Adderall prescription?

Also, any smokers here care to defend nicotine?

I don't care about lung cancer, I could even just start with an e-cig or whatever...

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>>9092679
Pros: Feel as though you are a piece of the universe peering into and reflecting on an infinitesimal sliver of itself, and realize every little thing you learn helps you see a clearer picture of the intricate beauty that makes up this reality you play a part in.

Cons: Get anxious sometimes

>>9092712
>help me sleep as little as possible
Don't avoid sleep dumbass. If you want to spend less time sleeping, get as much quality sleep out of your time as you can. Get the best mattress you can, do some back stretches before bed (especially yoga focusing on massaging the spine), and stop browsing 4chan right before bed.

As for focusing, amphetamines work wonders. Cocaine too, if you have the money for it and the self-discipline to not go overboard.

>>9092775
I'll get amphetamines then, thanks.

Also, thanks for the advice on sleep.

>>9092749
From what I've read armo is the most potent, as it only contains the active isomers. It is nice, hard to get dependent on it since it doesn't really provide a high at all (first times are kinda like speed but there is no chasing the dragon possibilities)

After 2 years of what I would call moderate use now it mostly gives me a slight headache with nice energy and a slight mood boost

>>9092756
It lasts like 5 minutes, there is nothing "productive" about it. I'm the armodafinil guy who just replied to you. Nicotine is most addictive thing I've tried, since it is so mild and honestly eliquid flavor are very nice. I had to throw away my ecig stuff since I would aim for it right as I got home

>>9092801
thanks

>>9084821
Get a load of this retard

>>9084720
>Are you gonna start sperging about how prisons are a massive plot to keep blacks enslaved
Hey now, no need to bring race into this. A white or latino's prison labor is just as good as any black's.

>>9079746
underrated

Been using temazepam, for years in pretty high doses (60/80mg) No problems, helps tremendously for severe insomnia. I take it for four days a week. Doctors keep telling me it's dangerous, there full of shit in my case at least.

Anyone else enjoying the good parts of benzos? It sure beats the destructive side of alcohol.

>>9092497
That is not a picture of Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, it's Methylenedioxyamphetamine.

>>9081035
This still doesnt help the credibility of the graph. Like explain to me how cannabis is so high up?

>>9088908
Of course LSD is going to make you retarded and burnt out if you take it on a regular basis you stupid fuck. Please continue to take as much crack as possible.

adderall, lsd, pot. cannabis doesn't make you stupid. it just makes you comfortable with don't nothing when you could be doing something productive

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rrnyffcg9jc

>>9092135
>And MDMA doesn't become seriously neurotoxic unless you don't wait in between doses.
Literally all of the literature on the topic has consistently shown the exact opposite. MDMA, like many drugs, causes damage via ROS formation. Unless it's coupled with specific anti-oxidants, like gluthionine and vitamin C, it's going to cause brain damage. That's just the nature of stuff being forced to stay in the synapse and messy breakdown products, eg autoxidation via fenton reaction, breakdown by MAOSs, formation of reactive quinones, etc. The same deal is behind L-DOPA induced tardive dyskinesia, (meth)amphetamine toxicity, etc.

Don't believe urban myths and "common knowledge". If you desire MDMA use, there are ways to do it right and reduce subsequent damage to undetectable levels.

>>9092305
>"smart drugs"
Most of them are just anxiolytics and L-type VGCC blockers, which make people's brain work better in the presence of their wifi and cell phone saturated everyday lives. You hear the same thing with magnolia bark. Also a calcium channel blocker.

Phenibut and magnolia bark are very useful, but I do not consider them outright nootropics. They simply inhibit aspects of a negative baseline state.

>>9079489
Mary Jane

>>9096494
You're wrong. MAPS does not give antioxidants to MDMA therapy patients, and they have FDA approval for their trials. This wouldn't be happening if it was causing brain damage.
I recommend reading this: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/mapscontent/research-archive/published/MDMA_IB_FINAL_30Mar2016+(3).pdf

I don't disagree with the conclusion
>If you desire MDMA use, there are ways to do it right and reduce subsequent damage to undetectable levels.
but
>Literally all of the literature on the topic has consistently shown the exact opposite.
is not true.

>>9091826
mdma is unavoidably neurotoxic. spacing out use, controlling dosage, and proper prepping mitigates some of this, but nowhere near all of it. this has nothing to do with cut pills, whatever tested dnm-sourced product you have is still damaging your brain

>>9094575
not even that. It lacks a H on nitrogen (is this a nitrene then? Hard to tell without the lone pairs indicated)

>>9084893
I'm pretty sure they're both methylphenidate
Unless there's somw manufacturing thing that makes it worse than ritalin,I'm pretty sure its the same

>>9098128
I believe concerta is an extended release varient of Methylphenidate, I took the drug for around six months back in Highschool, made me feel absolutely awful.

>>9097786
Maybe if you live a shitty lifestyle. I eat right, get 8 hours of sleep and exercise in addition to spacing out my rolls to at least 3 months and testing my product to ensure it MDMA only. Every roll feels like the first time followed by 3-7 day after glow. Also, studies of long-term MDMA abusers have trouble finding permanent neurological damage. Its partly because neuroscience is relatively new and they can't cut open humans but I remain skeptical that those that follow mitigation guidelines will experience noticeable negative effects.

>>9097093
Then those guinea pigs can enjoy their brain damage. The FDA is hardly credible, and certainly not infallible.

>>9098375
> I don't believe actual studies or agencies aimed at protecting public health because it doesn't support my opinion.

Are you this fucking stupid?

>>9079489
Caffeine.

>>9098183
>Maybe if you live a shitty lifestyle. I eat right, get 8 hours of sleep and exercise in addition to spacing out my rolls to at least 3 months and testing my product to ensure it MDMA only. Every roll feels like the first time followed by 3-7 day after glow.
great for you
>Also, studies of long-term MDMA abusers have trouble finding permanent neurological damage
lmao, what does this matter? last I checked, there was a statistically significant difference for repeat users on mental tests, and there isn't a way to entirely avoid the neurotoxicity, you're just fine betting on the damage being minimal with prep and your brain being able to recover after. that hope for recovery also is insane to me, given you're on a board nominally dedicated to learning and intellectual betterment. even if you would eventually recover, that's a period of your life you've irrevocably damaged for some hedonism
>I remain skeptical that those that follow mitigation guidelines will experience noticeable negative effects.
also great for you, but your skepticism doesn't reflect any studies I've seen and amounts to gambling. it's also really irresponsible, you got into this publicly trying to defend mdma as "extremely safe," while heroin is safer with a measured dose. I really don't get it, just do psychedelics or something

>>9079489

I get Adderall IR 30 MG x 2 daily.

My focus, memory, motivation and overall 'Brain Power' has increased by at least 60% since I started using them five years ago.

But everyone is different so I just got lucky, I suppose.

>>9079746
Not if you inject it directly into your brain

>>9084652
this is exactly how I like to party lmao
microdosing drugs is extreeeeemely alfa

>>9084835
>what the fuck is the point of putting all that in your body all at the same time?
to get lit mang

>>9099106
Consult the literature buddy-boyo, it's very consistent over many decades. You're slave to the underlying logic that drives the universe, just like everything else. It works how it works regardless of how hard you close your eyes, and how many times you shoot the messenger.

What some largely political, revolving door mess of a "regulatory" entity says or does, is completely irrelevant. This research probably has a purpose. It's asinine that people act like MKUltra never happened, along with the myriad set ups that were intended to be used to bolster certain political and cultural actions. How naive and historically ignorant can you get.

I can't imagine what it would be to live life as one of these newage starry eyed "everything is so much better now!" types. You're amnesiac sheep. Shit sucks in more or less the same ways it did in the recent past, if not the totality f our recorded history.

>>9100070
You consult the literature, buddy-boyo. I linked it for you in the post you responded to. Fraudulent 90s-00s studies like Ricaurte's "oops I gave these apes meth and pretended it was MDMA" are not valid, and they were certainly much more politically motivated than the FDA today.

>>9079489
was on clonazepam and xanax for over 6 years. I did not get a high except that it took the anxiety out.

Now I'm on pregabalin and paracetamol, 4 bloodpressure medication and insulin.
Did an experiment and not take the insulin, it took about 3 weeks for the diabetes to worsen and the kidney functions to weaken.
It was interesting to go half blind, getting the feel where one body could not hold up anymore.

Also I was on opioid medication only to figure out if the addiction was or could be worse than benzos, in reality my experiment with the opioids where a miss.
There was only a week feeling unwell, and the first 3 days are worst but nothing compared to benzos imo.

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I've taken acid like 10 times now and still haven't seen 4D

fckn a

Have seen some pretty fucking amazing 3D fractals tho...no wonder brainlets thought this shit connects you with god. The whole 'connected with everything feeling' (which is really just a failure of the process in the brain which maintains where the border of inside/out is) combined with seeing elaborate 3D fractal lattice shit, and a high tendency to see eyes everywhere? poor brainlets lol, can't even appreciate for what it really is
like holy fuck my brain is doing that just automatically...a biological device, doing such precise computation. incredible

I wanna actually see 4d tho

>>9100788
cuck

I like amphetamines but am hesitant to do them regularly, is there much damage to cognition due to long term therapeutic(aka adhd) dosage?

>>9102191
Likely you'll incur some degree of working memory deficit, and some ROS induced cell death / structural damage. Other broader effects are unknown.

ITT : The Dunning Kruger Effect