Why isn't there any animals with wheels?

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>>9038033
Why does this thread keep getting reposted?

A wheel is not that hard to make. You might have also heard stuff like "why didn't x civilization have wheels until x!?"

To that, I would just challenge you to build your own wagon. You'll quickly find that the wheel is not the problem, but the axel and joints. Same with nature. How can could you make a joint for a wheel? How could you turn it with purely biological means?

because legs are better

>>9038033
There are though. If you count gears as a form of wheel.

A wheel requires parts moving independently from each other. How would the wheel get any blood supply or heal when damaged if it's disconnected from the rest of the body?

>>9038049
God could find a way

>>9038033
Some spider turn into wheels to escape down smooth hills

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>>9038033
Here's a big reason: if you are standing on an incline, you will have to spend more energy to remain in place than you would if you had legs. Why? Because gravity pulls you down a lot easier if you are a wheel than if you are a leg.

>>9038104
Yes because people can't turn their feet sideways.

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>>9038112
You're right anon, if it were a perfect incline you could just stand perpendicular to the decline. But let's say you're climbing a hill, or walking up a pile, or you are in a pit. These are all common things that could happen to a terrestrial animal because terrestrial animals live on variable terrain. So in order to climb a mountain or get out of a gorge they'd need to ascend in a "sidestepping" manner.

Is there anything wrong with sidestepping with wheels in order to go up/down? One thing that comes to mind is that now you require strong joints to move your legs in a weird fashion. Humans have ball and socket joints on their hips to allow us to extend our legs forward and back easily, but not to the side. The new wheel animal would require 360 degree ball and socket joints, in my opinion, in order to be good at

1) Going forward and backward using the wheels
and
2) Traversing variable terrain by sidestepping, so it needs to be able to move left and right very easily without a lot of energy

>>9038033
Flat surfaces with anything interesting for an animal are quite recent, this eco niche is so new that wheels haven't had time to evolve yet

>>9038124
Or! Just walk in a fishbone pattern like people do with skis.

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>>9038129
That doesn't solve the problem of spending more energy. If the angle between the gradient and the wheel isn't 90 degrees, you will be spending extra energy to stay on an incline. If you had a flat paw, you have more surface area and therefore more friction available to keep you on that incline

>>9038129
Somewhat defeats the point of having wheels if you're gonna do that

>>9038140
If you ignore movement downhill maybe.

>>9038139
frictional force is independent of surface area

>>9038139
Yes but things don't evolve only to minimize energy expenditure.

>>9038151
What?

>>9038057
>animals with gears
L0Lno fgt pls

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>>9038112
Lrn2en-premiére fgt pls

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>>9039718
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8fyUOxD2EA

>>9038033
There was an episode of Andy Richter Controls The Universe where he had wheels.

>>9039732
>gears claimed
>no gears displayed
yahh riiight

>>9038151
>things don't evolve only to minimize energy expenditure.
t. brainlet

>>9038033
>what are mulefa

>>9038101
animals can roll. Not sure that's a wheel, without an axle an shit.

>>9038104
What is a "parking brake?"

>>9038112
And of course a wheel cannot be turned sideways either.

>>9038059
Communal organism? Build a wheel like army ants build a bivouac, but more so.

>>9038151
>>9039236
>>9040009
If minimizing energy expenditure was the over-riding "goal" of evolution, we'd all still be sponges.

Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money. Using energy more profligately in order to get to the next energy source before Slowbro might be a winning strategy.

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>>9038033
How semantic are we being here? Wheels do exist on the cellular level, macroscopic limb wheels are way less control/require more energy than limbs

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we have mini wheels does that count

>>9038059
>How would the wheel get any blood supply or heal when damaged if it's disconnected from the rest of the body?

Maybe the same way nutrients andO2 get from blood cells to other tissues, even though the blood cells are not attached to the cells in the rest of the boy.

Especially for a low-energy, slow-rolling wheeled critter, that might work.

The Siberian Monorail-sloth maybe.

Can someone explain how an axle would actually work for an organism?

>>9039732
Those pivot rather than rotate like a wheel.

If your definition is loose enough a wheel that only turns <30 degrees, than yeah, almost every joint in your body counts.

The roadrunner's (Accelleratii Incredibus) lower half actually transforms into a spinning wheel when he reaches top speed, as does the coyote (Eatibus Anythingus) under certain conditions.

>>9041344
Cool as fuck.

>>9041344
>>9041343
I think, in context, we're talking locomotion-related wheels, not just rotating structures.

>>9041369
>>9041330 communal...

>>9041376
Are specific names of cartoons capitalized?

>>9038033
There's at least one species that we know of that has wheels

>>9041380
No an actual organism not some communal shit, fuck off with your moving goalposts

>>9041376
10/10
>>9041379
Yea i figured. The real question is why would wheels be advantageous for an organism, over limbs. Wheels are much more limited than limbs in terms of the terrain they can transverse, especially with shit like plants everywhere. Id imagine it would be much more possible from an evolution standpoint if some organism evolved in a completely flat area, but that doesnt exist.
Another thing is low surface area contact between a wheel and the ground, compared with limbs. I feel that would be a factor

A wheel cant be self contained like a limb.

As in what does the wheel spin around and how does the wheel connect to the rest of the body? How would you get resources to the wheel tissues, and how would you protect the bearing from infection.

Doesnt even seem remotely possible to me

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>>9041371
Yeah but that was in response to the implication that there are no animals with gears. Clearly there are.

>>9041835
There are. They're called humans.

>Why isn't there any animals with wheels?
Because wheels are great on smooth roads, and shit in dense wilderness. They trade efficiency for flexibility and reliability.

>>9038033
>tfw no mulefa gf

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Some jumping insects employ gears in their legs.

>>9041391
Then anything I can think of is going to have to roll VERY slowly.

>>9041423
>Wheel tissue
Nonliving matter for the wheels. like horn?

>Protect from friction
Animules are good at making oil

>>9038151
>>9041341
Maybe so, but having to walk in such a way is so beyond wasteful that all the animals who potentially developed such a limb barely reproduced even if they survived.

>>9041989
What if the entire planet was downhill tho

>>9041993
What, are you stoned?

>>9042002
No, I'm a man. Only women get stoned.

>>9042009
and only brainlets make sweeping generalizations.

>>9042009
They stone homos too I think

>>9041916
That gay fag from YouTube was right, the cars from the Cars movie are futuristic insects!

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>>9042024
>he said, making a sweeping generalization

>>9038064
He did by making us amirite?

>>9042038
(that's the joke)

>>9042150
>I was merely pretending
Sure thing, champ. ;^)

>>9042166
keep replying

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>>9042215
>he said, desperately trying to get the last word in to salvage some sense of dignity

>>9038050
This. Legs enable better control, also jumping and vertical movement is important too for land and sea animals.

>>9042306
I meant creatures not animals.