Sorry I don't buy it

>>9029401
I don't understand intelligence worship in the first place.

You're literally just lauding someone for being lucky. We don't worship lottery winners, why should we worship geniuses?

>>9029408

They make the world more interesting

>>9029408
because someone like Jansci isn't born everyday

this is what Eugene Wigner had to say about Von Neumann


""I have known a great many intelligent people in my life. I knew Planck, von Laue and Heisenberg. Paul Dirac was my brother in law; Leo Szilard and Edward Teller have been among my closest friends; and Albert Einstein was a good friend, too. But none of them had a mind as quick and acute as Jansci [John] von Neumann. I have often remarked this in the presence of those men and no one ever disputed me.

... But Einstein's understanding was deeper even than von Neumann's. His mind was both more penetrating and more original than von Neumann's. And that is a very remarkable statement. Einstein took an extraordinary pleasure in invention. Two of his greatest inventions are the Special and General Theories of Relativity; and for all of Jansci's brilliance, he never produced anything as original."

>>9029401
he was smart but his life was a failure overall. he was an attention whore and he wasted his energy on bullshit instead of math and physics.

he hasn't invented anything worth a damn really.
wall that genius... wasted.

ps: there's a good docu on his life and Oppenheimer takes a shit on his von Neumann's carrier and achievements in it.

>>9029427

Wasn't Oppenheimer a Communist and von Neumann a fanatic anti-Communist?

I wouldn't believe anything Oppenheimer says

>>9029427
Von Neumann is considered the father of mathematical game theory, i think that is disputed...and if that was his only achievement then that would still be a big one


Oppenheimer did nothing as original in physics that Von Neumann did in math

>>9029451
edit: i mean its not disputed, he is considered the sole father of game theory when he solved the minmax theorem in 1928

>>9029446
KYS. immediately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer

>>9029451
you're an idiot too. van Neumman did not invent game theory. He's did invent ergodic theorem. That's about all of note that he did.

And you're completely weong on Oppeheimer.

>>9029456
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory

"Modern game theory began with the idea regarding the existence of mixed-strategy equilibria in two-person zero-sum games and its proof by John von Neumann. Von Neumann's original proof used the Brouwer fixed-point theorem on continuous mappings into compact convex sets, which became a standard method in game theory and mathematical economics. His paper was followed by the 1944 book Theory of Games and Economic Behavior, co-written with Oskar Morgenstern, which considered cooperative games of several players. The second edition of this book provided an axiomatic theory of expected utility, which allowed mathematical statisticians and economists to treat decision-making under uncertainty."

no, sorry you are wrong again

>>9029456

>a member of just about every Communist Front organization on the West Coast

So yeah, I can see why he would have felt a deep hatred towards someone like von Neumann.

>>9029417
Having a high IQ and being intelligent is not enough. It also matters what you do with all that potential.

Von Neumann and his life should be studied as a lesson in egomania and how one can piss their potential away.

>>9029465
>felt a deep hatred
Where the fuck did you get that from? Please cite it.

>>9029471

He was a Communist, von Neumann wanted to to nuke Communists. It's extremely easy to see a logical reason for personal hatred there.

>>9029475
you're an idiot.
again, cite what you claim about hatred.

and whatever Oppenheimer's politics were, he was smarter than Von Neumann and did way, way more.

Von Noimann didn't do shit with his potential.

>>9029478

Citation for Oppenheimer being smarter than Johnny?

As far as I know, Opps was just one of those generic physicists who made minor contributions but would have been largely forgotten if not for his involvement in the Manhattan project.
Von Neumann on the other hand was thought to be one of the smartest human beings ever by his peers.

>>9029456
>Oppenheimer

I love that he won an Enrico Fermi Award despite them be contemporaries a mere 3 years age difference and having worked together at Los Alamos.

Fermi died to early. He seemed like a really interesting character. He could have become a better Feynman if he had lived a little longer.

>>9029408
Why worship anything then

>>9029486
so source of this supposed hatred is you ass. got it. don't bother responding without a link.

>>9029493
Fermi was way smarter than Feynamn. And everyone was saying how fun of a character he was to be around and how he always loved educating younger physicists.
Too bad he died early.

>>9029427
>>9029456
>>9029478
>Von neumann didn't shit a shitton of important results in a shitload of fields of mathematics

how to tell someone's doesn't know any math
do you idiots even bother to check anything before you open your retarded mouth?

>>9029408
well mememann wasn't just born lucky he also worked hard all the time
compare that to someone like langan

>>9029516
>he also worked hard all the time
yeah, dining with government and military officials is hard work.

>>9029520
yea sure thing budy. let's see your cv

>known for

Abelian von Neumann algebra
Affiliated operator
Amenable group
Arithmetic logic unit
Artificial viscosity
Axiom of regularity
Axiom of limitation of size
Backward induction
Blast wave (fluid dynamics)
Bounded set (topological vector space)
Carry-save adder
Cellular automata
Class (set theory)
Computer virus
Commutation theorem
Continuous geometry
Coupling constants
Decoherence theory (Quantum mechanics)
Density matrix
Direct integral
Doubly stochastic matrix
Duality Theorem
Durbin–Watson statistic
EDVAC
Ergodic theory
explosive lenses
Game theory
Hilbert's fifth problem
Hyperfinite type II factor
Inner model
Inner model theory
Interior point method
Lattice theory

>>9029511

I don't need a source to dismiss the opinion of a Communist.
In my opinion, all Communists are liars and snakes.

You on the other hand keep making these weird claims but can't back them up.

I mean, you can't really type either but I get that being dyslexic isn't 1:1 correlated with mental retardation and I'm sure you're smarter than you make people think you are.

>>9029535

Lifting theory
Merge sort
Middle-square method
Minimax theorem
Monte Carlo method
Mutual assured destruction
Normal-form game
Operation Greenhouse
Operator theory
Pointless topology
Polarization identity
Pseudorandomness
Pseudorandom number generator
Quantum mutual information
Quantum statistical mechanics
Radiation implosion
Rank ring
Self-replication
Software whitening
Spectral theory
Standard probability space
Stochastic computing
Stone–von Neumann theorem
Subfactor
Ultrastrong topology
Von Neumann algebra
Von Neumann architecture
Von Neumann bicommutant theorem
Von Neumann cardinal assignment
Von Neumann cellular automaton
Von Neumann interpretation
Von Neumann measurement scheme
Von Neumann Ordinals
Von Neumann universal constructor
Von Neumann entropy
Von Neumann Equation
Von Neumann neighborhood
Von Neumann paradox
Von Neumann regular ring
Von Neumann–Bernays–Gödel set theory
Von Neumann universe
Von Neumann conjecture
Von Neumann's inequality
Von Neumann's trace inequality
Von Neumann stability analysis
Von Neumann extractor
Von Neumann ergodic theorem
Von Neumann–Morgenstern utility theorem
ZND detonation model

What a fucking loser this guy

>>9029539
>In my opinion, all Communists are liars and snakes.

Why? What's wrong with being a communist?

>>9029535
How were there so many super geniuses in that time period?

You had him, Godel, Church, Turing, Feynman, Einstein, Erdos, other Hungarians (like Erdos/Johnny), etc.

Seem to have been more geniuses then than now

>>9029540

Even one of those results would make a mathematician happy and consider his life fulfilled.

>>9029539
>>9029542
take your faggot internet fight somewhere else, retarded pansies

>>9029535
>>9029540
Over half of those things he didn't invent and just got a name for it because of his status.

>Von Neumann architecture
LMAO... prime example.

>>9029544

There are the same geniuses now. How many guys do you know that won the Nobel Prize or Fields Medal? I bet you don't really most of them. Yet all of them are probably geniuses. It's just that they are dealing with far harder more specialised problems.

It's like, if you got into "computers" in the 80's all you needed was some basic programming and you were set. You could be a multi-millionaire today if you did that. But if you want to get into "computers" now, it's way harder and the opportunities are not there any more.

The geniuses are still there. They just aren't discovering anything revolutionary but rather trying to work on very hard problems that will take lifetimes to solve.

>>9029427
>he hasn't invented anything worth a damn really
So then how are you posting this asinine comment if that's true?

>>9029555
Nice trips. Makes sense.

>>9029552
he definitely had an important contribution in all of those, no matter how much of a contrarian faggot you want to be
Eckert/Mauchly solved the practical issues of the architecture and I do agree their contribution deserves their name, but Von Neumann had the right ideas about it

>>9029547

I just asked the engineer, what is wrong with being a communist.

I still want to know. Like you can support mass suffering in the name of property rights and you think that that somehow makes you morally superior to anyone supporting any other ideology?

Why?

>>9029544
The world was forced to put aside its bullshit because of war and focus on science instead.

>>9029562
stop shitting the board
no one gives a fuck about the current trendy retarded ideology
if you want people to call you an idiot for it go somewhere else

>>9029560
He had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING` TO DO with the development of """"van Neumman""" Architecture". He just wrote a gov report about various architectures used in computing at that time.

>>9029560
>>9029569
Turing was developing the ACE and no one paid attention. It was faster than any computer of his day too. Turing SHOULD get credit for that but he doesn't.

>>9029569

>This drew him to the ENIAC project, during the summer of 1944. There he joined into the ongoing discussions on the design of this stored-program computer, the EDVAC. As part of that group, he wrote up a description titled First Draft of a Report on the EDVAC[1] based on the work of Eckert and Mauchly. It was unfinished when his colleague Herman Goldstine circulated it with only von Neumann's name on it, to the consternation of Eckert and Mauchly.[10] The paper was read by dozens of von Neumann's colleagues in America and Europe, and influenced the next round of computer designs.


Sure, he had a small role but it's not fair to say he had no role and he wasn't trying to be a dick and claim it all as his own.

>>9029569
>absolutely nothing
no

>>9029552
you mean only example?

>>9029578
others invented """vin neumann""" architecture""" way before him.

>>9029582
no, many others. go through the list and look at sources (and not bullshit wikipedia articles).

Is it even worth it to go into the sciences knowing that you are just three glass ceilings down from chilling on the "geniuses" floor?

I mean, anything in STEM is no cake walk. Why take on the massive amount of work knowing that you will never excel at this stuff?

Maybe if I was like an Engineer or even a something else I might get an opportunity to do something useful and long lasting.

Idk. I still have time to decide. I double majored in math and physics and will probably do an applied physics MSc starting next fall but I'm wondering whether to go work afterwards or try for a Ph.D.

>>9029587
seeing math as a competition is silly
if you enjoy it and want to contribute, go ahead, you'll get nice results and a good career if you work hard
otherwise why are you even studying it? just because you want to be known as a genius? bad reason

>>9029594

I'm just considering my options.

I like doing math but there are also other things in life. No need to be close minded and rush into a life that I might not be suited for.

>>9029628
are there also other things in life that you like to do as much? that should be your question

>>9029631

If I could own my own company doing something in STEM, I would prefer that to being a mediocre mathematician.

But I would prefer being a mediocre mathematician to being a mediocre anything else.

>>9029641
you don't know how good a mathematician you're going to be. that depends on how hard you're willing to work

So basically Von Neumann was a jack of all trades but couldn't specialize because he was always drawn towards some new field or problem

Meanwhile Einstein was on the other end of the spectrum and was deeply disturbed by new things like QM

I have to respect Von Neumann more

>>9029401
Who the hell cares how he sounds? Intellectuals read text, not listen to shit.

>>9029427
>I have no idea what I'm talking about.

game theory makes von neumann automatically one of the greats

>>9029408
Excellent bait

some of the stuff about him was probably hagiographic, I very much doubt the claims about him being able to memorize phone books for example

>>9029569
how did this cunt get so much shit named after him? I found this out myself, seeing him talked about on /sci/ and looking into what he'd done. So much of the shit that has his name, he contributed nothing to. How did this happen? Was it just his popsci status?

>>9029401
This hack was the original le popsci man.

>>9029401
>basing your opinion of someone's intelligence on one random interview instead of their life's accomplishments

Whatever your intended field of study is, Von Neumann has already contributed more to it than you ever will.

>>9029401
He knows exactly what he's talking about from beginning to end without stumbling whatsoever, his accent could have been a lot worse considering how late in life he came to the United States, and he did share some nuanced insights about education such as why scholarships are overrated without using complicating language. He's dumbed himself down for everybody else in the smartest way possible to enhance understanding and nobody feels stupid for it because Von Neumann is brilliant that way.

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>>9029417
Einstein wasn't quite original.

>>9030934
>Michelson-Morley experiment
>Lorentz transformation
>Poincare group
>Minkowski space
Yep, he said it was all him.

>>9030934
so can you show me where michelson, lorentz or poincare formulated relativity?

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>>9030934

>>9031137
What about the rumors that Einstein's wife also made contributions that no one mentions?

>>9029401
>speaks Hungarian, German, Italian, French, Hellenic, Hebrew, and English
>has a funny accent

>>9031169

Oh yeah and what about that rumor that someone was trying to patent the theory of relativity but Einstein had him murdered so he could steal it?
That's definitely up there

>>9031137
>Michelson & Morley were bad scientists because they tried to disprove their own theories just as the scientific method calls us to do
>Lorentz & Poincare didn't do shit because they only did the mathematical heavy lifting, stopping because they thought the physics was contradictory

>>9029417
savage

>>9029466
>being smart is not enough
>you have to be smart with your potential

>>9031342
>reading comprehension

>>9031360
>comprehending what was implied because "Michelson & Morley disproved their own theory, ergo did nothing to contribute to relativity" despite the fundamentally important results gleaned from their experiment
neck yourself

>>9031342
>Michelson & Morley were bad scientists because they tried to disprove their own theories just as the scientific method calls us to do
Literally did not say that

>Lorentz & Poincare didn't do shit because they only did the mathematical heavy lifting, stopping because they thought the physics was contradictory
Their lifting was indeed heavy but Einstein kind of BTFO'd them by showing that you could derive their results with less than a page of mathematics if you started from the right premise (constant c). He also showed that the transforms applied to pretty much everything rather than just EM fields, something that no-one else had thought of.

>>9031484
Saying they "didn't discover shit" is obviously putting it a bit strongly but all they really did was reveal an open question, which Einstein answered.

>>9031169
>What about the rumors that Einstein's wife also made contributions that no one mentions?
That's not a rumor. She was smarter than him. But at that time, no one listened to what women had to say and were dismissed. So he let Albert publish it under his name.

>>9029401
it's fucking outreach, if it's anything like it is today, then he probably didn't give a shit. It's just talking to kids.

>>9031491
>Literally did not say that
Yes they did. All they talked about was the fact that Michelson-Morley walked into their famous experiment with a hypothesis that would turn out to be false, saying nothing about what DID come out of falsifying their hypothesis. It's a fucking stupid interpretation of how good science works, that because he didn't start with proto-relativity, he doesn't deserve any credit for discovering the information that led to its formation. How many scientific discoveries were made because somebody was baffled that their prediction did not come true and decided to investigate further?