Automation is a meme

>this kills the mcdonalds employee who voted for 15$ minimum wage

And yet, outside a few cherrypicked pictures on the internet these basically don't exist. I have never seen one in my life. I'm willing to bet YOU have never seen one in your life.

>>8966898
lel you people just don't get it

those machines popped up in Russia five years ago where the minimum wage is $0.50/hr

Joe bumblefuck of McDonald's demanding a pay bump from $11/hr to $15/hr has fuck all to do with it

>>8966904
This was for:
>>8966898

>>8966915
I see these at literally all 4 McDonalds that I have been to in Vancouver and Ottawa.

Even waiters at some sushi restaurants I've been to have part of their jobs automated by just having iPads at the table that you can place orders with

>>8966915

Yeah they are in loads of McD's in UK and continental Europe.

people who usually harp on automation are not engineers or studied robotics.

>>8966890
It's high labour prices that cause automation, not the other way around. This is why Silicon Valley is shilling for universal basic income. UBIs would drive the price of labour up, which in turn would make automation economically feasible.

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>>8966890
>>8966890
You're the guy who said the same shit about the internet in the 1980s.

You're the guy who said the same shit about cars in 1904.

You're the same guy who said the same thing about electricity in the late 1870s.

Maybe your grandchildren will learn how to be right.

>>8967331
All those were making good progress well before they came fully to prominence. Automation is just a circlejerk by a bunch of desperate NEETs.

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>>8966890
here's the deal with automation

>its fucking expensive
unless you are running 24/7 plant operations, automation will not beat out human labor in terms of ROI. thats how automation in manufacturing makes its money, by being able to run lights out. the initial capital investment cost is fucking huge. you need to be a GM or an Intel in order to afford it on any decent scale. even a single robot can put a medium sized manufacturer out of business if they can't fully employ it.

>it requires huge amounts of upper level technicians/engineers

the talent pool in the manufacturing industry is ankle deep right now. even the small job shops are willing to train just about any dickhead off the street who can do simple math. nobody actually wants to work in a factory.

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>>8966890
I think the bigger question is why the fuck would employers automate everything to the point where no one would have jobs? If no one has jobs, no one can buy your shit pretty much fucking up the whole process.

>>8967382
>If no one has jobs, no one can buy your shit pretty much fucking up the whole process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

>>8967398
That might as well be communism. Do you really think anyone would go along with UBI as there only monetary stream?

>>8967411
>>8967411
>Do you really think anyone would go along with UBI as there only monetary stream?
all NEETs would, probably all of /r9k/ too

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>>8966890
Most people don't understand what automation means. This includes the people who made "humans need not reply" and OP.

I'm an engineer for an automation company. Automation is right in the name. Hippies give me a hard time for stealing jobs when they hear the A word, but here's a list of the projects my company has worked on:

Poison gas alarms.
Lightbulbs that dim automatically if there's window light.
Satellite linked glacier monitoring sensors.
Security tag systems for pet stores.

None of these steal jobs from humans. You would never pay someone to stand on a glacier all day and radio in his GPS coordinates or fiddle with a dimmer switch every time sunlight coming through a window changes. 99% of the money companies spend on automation is boring things like thermostats and smoke detectors that people have expected to be automated for decades; not replacing humans with robot workers.

>>8967382
Game theory.
Cant expect all employers to work cooperatively

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>>8967355
>All those were making good progress well before they came fully to prominence
Do you even fucking fathom just how widespread automation already is?

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>>8967432
I was blown away when I first realized serial production cars now look at the road and tell you when you cross the centerline, fucking break and steer for you in dangerous situations, switch the lights not to blind the oncoming drivers, read fucking traffic signs, actually understand GPS maps and more.

Yes, I'm a caveman, I drive a 22 year old Renault that barely moves its wipers, let alone do any of that other shit. Recently I sat inside a newest Subaru Outback and I felt like I was frozen since 50's or some shit.

>>8967382
Automation isn't actually about eliminating humans employees, it's about improving factory efficiency.
Also see >>8967432

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>>8968080
>isn't actually about eliminating human employees
>it's about improving factory efficiency

like one doesn't inevitably lead to the other
Sure, Industrial Revolution didn't create catastrophic mass unemployment, but that's because its aftermath created literally hundreds of completely new work fields, and menial physical labor is still a thing 200 years later.

What fucking new work fields are going to be created this time, when even management positions could very well be shafted by computers thirty years from now?

>>8967365
WHEW fuck to the you pal, Robots can sense when it is time to work with new algorithms and sensors being made erryday.

Liek if you cri erytiem

>>8967365
>requires huge amounts of
Yes
>upper level
No

The 'huge amounts' are the guys who repair basic mechanical issues like hydraulics leaking, high level in this case would be advanced programmers who would mostly be organising entire factories/companies from behind the scenes.
Just because a mechanic works on the same machines year after year to the point of doing things with no manual in half the time, it doesn't make him 'high level'.

>>8968282
by high level, i meant guys who aren't just the meat robots that pulled levers for 10 hours a day. when people think of factory jobs being lost, thats what they are talking about. being able to repair modern hydraulic systems puts you in to the top 10% of technical skill when compared to the every day american.

>>8968301
And vast numbers of people over the age of 35 can't operate a smartphone. It depends what sort of environment you grow up in, really.
That said, we don't have any areas with high-concentration automated production being everyday life for everyone yet, so we can't really test this.

>>8968248
Faggot.

>>8968148
>What fucking new work fields are going to be created this time
Basically the same jobs that exist today, but employees' role would change a bit. Operators would supervise the automatic machines, check if they're working properly, operate shit in manual mode in case of failure, do calibration stuff, etc. There's also the shitton of maintenance required for those machines.
If you think automation means some machines doing all the work with no human intervention, you're quite misled. Shit doesn't work without human supervision and intervention.
>inb4 AI will do that
It won't. The current AI state is further away from be able to take those tasks.

>>8967382
>If no one has jobs, no one can buy your shit pretty much fucking up the whole process.
That's when the economy shifts away from consumerism and goes into hyperexpansion. Then we can finally expand out into the solar system.

>>8966908

Not true. Relative costs matter and relative costs cross borders for a multinational.

Why would a company pay more for automation when labor is cheaper? Becasue there is an efficiency gained somewhere. There is a point at which either labor becomes too expensive or automation becomes too cheap to ignore -but the two are absolutely related.

No reasonable person (or corporate entity) will increase a line item on their P&L unless they are gaining profit in some way.

Automation is a slow crawl problem, the issue lies with that more and more key human processes are becoming dependent on machine/ computer based activities.

Thus the level of productivity a society yields becomes intrinsically dependent on the how advance technology is. For example concerning cars you are looking at it the wrong way. The issue isn't self-driving vehicles but the fact driving/ transportation is needed more and more to function and be productive on a daily level.

In the current global economy where any subject has the potential to be monetized the danger lies not with automation on it's own but the people who use it to exploit any and every human action. This is because if the exploitation via automation proves successful it will cause an increase need of said automation by others to compete in a given subject. This will gradually reduce human capital until it is entirely dependent on machines/ computers to survive or rendered obsolete due to lack of efficiency and expenditure of time.

>>8966915
Ukfag here they are everywhere, I use them exclusively

>>8966898
noone uses those

>>8968351
Quit spouting your bullshit opinions that aren't backed by any evidence. Economists have done empirical studies and found no correlation between minimum wage increases and employment.

http://nelp.3cdn.net/98b449fce61fca7d43_j1m6iizwd.pdf

You've been trained to reflexively argue against your own interests by the media.

>>8967432
>I'm an engineer
I don't believe you
List of jobs you have stolen:
>Poison gas alarms.
Canaries and retards.
>Lightbulbs that dim automatically if there's window light.
Personal servants
>Satellite linked glacier monitoring sensors.
>Security tag systems for pet stores.
Security guards

Way to single handedly ruin the world economy you mongoloid faglord.

>>8968545
>Satellite linked glacier monitoring
I meant to say penguins and seals to this one.

Finance and Accounting double major here. How fucked am I?

>>8968526
>Lets just make minimum wage a million dollars! Then everyone will be rich right! xDDDDD

>>8968553
wew lad, unless you get a BCS to that, you are shafted, japan had automatic stock exchange 10 years ago

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>>8968562
Nice straw man. I guess that's all that you have left to argue with, though.

The reason why it has no effect is that businesses already operate with the minimum number of employees possible and can't cut any more. It's in their interest to cut as many jobs as possible regardless of what the minimum wage actually is.

>>8968573
>already operate with the minimum number of employees possible and can't cut any more.
They can if the cost of automating one of those employees becomes less than the cost of their wage.
Unless you are saying they've already automated every job they possibly can.

>>8966904
Their all over the city where I live in and a third of my citie's population depends on mininium wage work.

>>8968553
Finance is fine but accounting is going to probably be axed soon

>>8969093
Not him but
Why would you say that?

>>8968573
Thats crap
You can walk into any business in existance and see people doing jobs that could be automated

>>8966904
I live in some bumfuck City of ≤100000 and these are at every McShit's in town.

>>8966890
You haven't heard about all the stores closing because of online shopping? That's automation. Or how Blockbuster died? We're are headed towards the day when the vast majority of humans will be obsolete. When that day happens we can only pray the elites take mercy on us and allow us our daily bread crumbs.

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How much merit does that "humans need not apply" video actually have? Futurists are starting to seem more and more obnoxious these days

>>8969259
You're forgetting to account for the initial cost of that automation, the time it takes to implement, and the jobs required for upkeep

>>8970093
>le deep learning meme
Basically the whole research on this field is a giant load of crap, we are able of building let's say a machine which can learn bach's music and play something extremely similar but if we change the datasheet it will produce trash.

>>8970128
Machines work by breaking up complex processes into many many simple repetitive tasks, but for that they need a lot of data to finetune themselves, that's where informatization came in and now suddenly they have access to a shitton of data to do this.

>>8970128
It's not a load of crap, it's incredibly powerful for tons of applications where there is a large amount of data to feed it.

However, the people treating it as the be-all and end-all of AI are retards.

Never forgetti, robots lack common sense and so would require constant supervision, and it is highly unlikely we could have robots repairing robots any time soon

>>8968326
>there will be a one-to-one ratio of humans and robots and everyone in the world would want to be a robot manager.

>>8970121
Have they become the new atheists?

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>>8971077
I don't know. I just hope those arrogant assholes aren't actually right about their predictions. As a car enthusiast, I would be more comfortable with Tesla and other EVs if being interested in them didn't apparently mean that I have to discard all traditional notions of cars and car culture, all thanks to their fans.
They've also been saying that baseload power stations will be obsolete thanks to solar and batteries. As someone who would like the public to stop being scared of nuclear power, this is a little distressing.
I would like to ignore them, but then I could end up being that guy who thought that automobiles would,never catch on.

>>8966890
>3 years a long time
>bait

Here's your (You) faggot

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>>8966890
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/download/5jlz9h56dvq7-en.pdf?expires=1497242369&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=CF317CFF607FC246A42964B1CA558FE5

im beginning to think automation is a meme at the moment due to the increasing number of countries calling for a universal basic income.

central bankers - BOJ, ECB, BOE, and FED have been desperately trying(and failing) to achieve inflation with extremely loose mometary policy.

automation is currently the scapegoat to achieve this inflation imo

All you gotta do is listen to the economists. There's a reason they are not worried.

>>8966898
this literally would've happened regardless. stop acting like businesses don't evolve and upgrade technology because of possible customer outcry

>>8970121
well same channel just produced this video a few days ago

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WSKi8HfcxEk

toward the end of the video he says 'please put money into our patron acc, as this 10min video took 9 months to make'

>muh new age efficiency

>>8971164
interest rates are 0 or negative in most places. seems like the definition of worried to me

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>>8971171
I'm too much of a brainlet to properly refute them, unfortunately. My dreams don't line up with their "utopia"

>Automation is a meme
>Local ford plant down from ~50000 to ~17000 jobs
>Car assemblying down to ~700 jobs
Automation is a process not something that happens over night.

>>8966890
Do you not yet realize what the endgame of capital and automation is?
>Imagine a company that manufactures batteries for electric cars. The inventor of the batteries might be a scientist who really believes in the power of technology to improve the human race. The workers who help build the batteries might just be trying to earn money to support their families. The CEO might be running the business because he wants to buy a really big yacht. The shareholders might be holding the stock to help save for a comfortable retirement. And the whole thing is there to eventually, somewhere down the line, let a suburban mom buy a car to take her kid to soccer practice. Like most companies the battery-making company is primarily a profit-making operation, but the profit-making-ness draws on a lot of not-purely-economic actors and their not-purely-economic subgoals.
>Now imagine the company fires the inventor and replaces him with a genetic algorithm that optimizes battery design. It fires all its employees and replaces them with robots. It fires the CEO and replaces him with a superintelligent business-running algorithm. All of these are good decisions, from a profitability perspective. We can absolutely imagine a profit-driven shareholder-value-maximizing company doing all these things. But it reduces the company’s non-masturbatory participation in an economy that points outside itself, limits it to just a tenuous connection with soccer moms and maybe some shareholders who want yachts of their own.
1/2

>>8971242
>Now take it further. Imagine that instead of being owned by humans directly, it’s owned by an algorithm-controlled venture capital fund. And imagine there are no soccer moms anymore; the company makes batteries for the trucks that ship raw materials from place to place. Every non-economic goal has been stripped away from the company; it’s just an appendage of Global Development.
>Now take it even further, and imagine this is what’s happened everywhere. Algorithm-run banks lend money to algorithm-run companies that produce goods for other algorithm-run companies and so on ad infinitum. Such a masturbatory economy would have all the signs of economic growth we have today. It could build itself new mines to create raw materials, construct new roads and railways to transport them, build huge factories to manufacture them into robots, then sell the robots to whatever companies need more robot workers. It might even eventually invent space travel to reach new worlds full of raw materials. Maybe it would develop powerful militaries to conquer alien worlds and steal their technological secrets that could increase efficiency. It would be vast, incredibly efficient, and utterly pointless. The real-life incarnation of those strategy games where you mine Resources to build new Weapons to conquer new Territories from which you mine more Resources and so on forever.
2/2
http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/30/ascended-economy/

>>8971216
It is simply already true that innovation doesn't create many jobs anymore, profit seems to come from cutting out the middle man, and innovation follows profit. No meme about it. For many people this has already happened.

>>8971243
Well that escalated quickly

>>8966890
The automation/AI/robotics news lately is not a meme. It's purposeful propaganda to trick people into accepting universal income by making them think most jobs will be gone in the near future.

>>8971354
That would be retarded because ubi could only happen IF automation is true. Otherwise it's impossible.

>>8966890
I don't think people are wrong to be concerned about automation eroding the number of jobs available and the massive spike in unemployment however I think there has generally been a lot of fear-mongering and people have made it sound like 50% of all jobs would be automated within the next decade or something ridiculous like that.

I have no doubt that automation will replace most human jobs at some point but I don't believe that point is in the immediate future. I think we have at least several decades before we even hit the 50% point. Maybe even a century or so. Beyond that even just a little bit of public backlash against automation can probably retard progress on it even longer.

I think the automation issue has been significantly overblown and while we should be starting to consider how to adapt our economy for when most jobs are automated it is a fairly low priority and changes don't need to be made right this second.

>>8971354
UBI is the the deathbed of humanity.
Once you're completely dependent you lose all power. The governing masters can just cut off everyone's income and we'll have no way to resist.

>>8971643
Not to mention https://alrenous.blogspot.sg/2016/05/basic-income-impossibility-theorem.html

>>8968308
>vast numbers of people over the age of 35 can't operate a smartphone
You're kidding me right now

>>8967413
>all NEETs would [go along with UBI only] probably all of /r9k/ too
Probably nearly all of /r9k/ would accept it, but even there I doubt the majority would actually prefer it.

The right to a government job (with flexible hours) would be preferable for most NEETs, and would be better value for the government.

>>8971643
Unless you live innawoods and only eat what you kill you're already pretty much 100% reliant on the machinations of government to survive.

>>8966890
>muh automatic cars
Driving your car to work is not a job, that's why no one is rushing to automate it. Your job will be automated first, which renders having a car pointless as you'll have nowhere to go.

>>8971885
Yes but currently the government is still somewhat dependent on me and everyone else for tax revenue.

If I pay no taxes, have no job, and produce no labor, then I have exactly zero leverage over the person paying my basic income.

>>8971243
>>8971242
I've always said that capitalist in its purest and most perfect form is machines creating better machines, forever.

>>8971242
>>8971243
>finance algorithms investing in other algorithms to just benefit share holders who are algorithms themselves
I don't think that's the way it's gonna work.

>>8971643
So what you're saying is we should just cut to the chase and not implement UBI, cutting off everyone's income in the first place?

>>8970128
Look at machine style transfer and NLP. Those are the areas that are already beginning to reach superhuman capability and will be the first major source of disruption.

>>8971919
I'm saying we should look to keep everyone employed and working productively as long as possible.
We should probably also be looking at population control measures.

>>8966890
This is under the false assumption that technologies will just keep developing. However, most technologies hit a plateau once they reach a certain complexity. For example, we figured out going to space 60 years ago, but not much progress has been made since. Yes, SpaceX has figured out how to land the first stage, but that's not really such a siginficant breakthrough. Another example is us trying to figur our nuclear fusion since 60 years but we are barely making any progress.

It's the same with automisaton. Everybody just assumes that if we can build chess and go playing robots now, then surely it is just a matter of decades until we figure out a general superintelligence. In reality it is rather probable that we will absoluetely never figur it out, because it's just too complex to build for us.

I work in a manufacturing environment that runs 24/7. I only started working there recently, but I can tell there have been changes. I'm sure a long time ago there were a lot more people involved, but now machines do most of the hard work. But people still have to operate the equipment.

It's a gradual thing, it won't kill jobs overnight but it's something you don't notice. People aren't always laid off, more like young people just never get the opportunity to enter the work force and have to find other means, such as government assistance.

We have some robotic arms, and machines that do a lot of the assembly, but humans are still needed. They have to have a lot more mechanics around to fix them when they break, which they do often. The storage warehouse is entirely automated by rolling drones, it's pretty neat to observe but it's definitely eliminated the need for human employees. Honestly a manufacturing company such as the one I work is pretty rare in America. In my city most jobs are part of the knowledge economy, I'm like the only person I know who doesn't work in some kind of office or exclusively on a computer. Excluding service industry and healthcare jobs.

>>8971955
Even though it's gradual it will cause a major disruption, maybe not in months or years but in decades there will be a noticeable change. I believe there already is. Large numbers of manufacturing jobs are not coming back to the US, the economy is changing and it's cheaper to build things in China or Malaysia or India than it is in the US. People living in the rust belt who voted for Trump thinking he'll magically make jobs return are dreaming.

We need to face the reality that eventually, maybe decades, the economy won't be able to support a comfortable way of life for all people. Many would say it already fails at this. Call me a socialist but I believe a government as powerful and rich as ours can afford to create some social programs for the most extreme victims of circumstance which are our citizens, brothers, fathers, maybe ourselves. Universal healthcare and universal basic income don't seem as crazy as they once were.

>>8971921
>machine style transfer
But all machine style transfer demo's so far have been horrible. It's on the level of a shitty photoshop plugin at best.

>>8972007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ueRYinz8Tk

>>8971930
So you're suggesting abolition of technological advances? Or are you suggesting even more bullshit jobs that serve absolutely no purpose other than keeping people busy? Why not just allow people the chance to live without worrying if they'll get another meal or not?

>>8972059
>Why not just allow people the chance to live without worrying if they'll get another meal or not?
Why not read the thread before replying?

>>8972060
I read the thread but didn't see anything countering UBI. The best I saw is someone claiming no leverage over someone supplying the UBI. But I have no idea what leverage someone already working a bullshit job has over their employer. Instead of letting them do something they'd like to do to improve themselves or society they're forced to waste it doing a job nobody really cares about.

>>8972072
>But I have no idea what leverage someone already working a bullshit job has over their employer.
what?

>>8972077
Let's say your job is to insert part A into Part B over and over again. This is all your job teaches you and is the only thing you're allowed to do with your time. Suddenly for whatever reason the job dies and you know nothing else. What leverage do you have over your income? Now if you were on UBI you'd have all this free time to better yourself, to develop as a well rounded human being. The time that would be wasted putting part A into part B can now be spent however you like. For whatever reason UBI is cut, compare the leverage of this person with the person doing a bullshit job and tell me which has greater odds of survival.

>>8972126
In an employee-employer scenario the leverage you have is whatever the value is of your labour. Sure they could fire you, but it wouldn't benefit them to do so.

When you are being given money by the government you are not giving anything back to them.
If it's only a small amount of people receiving money, then it's fine because the people who aren't dependent still have leverage and are probably willing to exert that leverage to help you. A normal welfare system.
But if significant portions of the population become entirely dependent, they wont have any leverage, and the people with leverage wont want to and wont be able to exert it on the behalf of the dependants.

>>8972169
>Sure they could fire you, but it wouldn't benefit them to do so.
Never encountered anyone afraid of being laid off? The scenario I described is extremely common. Every single person I know has been laid off or have had people in their company/lives laid off. It ruins lives because that's all they knew and now it's worthless.

>When you are being given money by the government you are not giving anything back to them.
Consider it a peace offering to avoid constant revolutions and coup d'états. Keep them pacified with sufficient means to live so they let the bourgeoisie live their lives in prosperity.

>>8966920
this
Most of what you hear about anything comes from people who don't know fuck all about it. My Dad still thinks H fuel cell tech is the future because he did some work for a company that was researching it 10 years ago.

>>8972191
>Never encountered anyone afraid of being laid off? The scenario I described is extremely common.
I'm talking about the general case

>Consider it a peace offering to avoid constant revolutions and coup d'états.
How does a revolutionary army of the jobless dependants arm, feed, and supply themselves?

Communist uprising were successful in the past because the workers' labour was actually critical to the economy.
It doesn't work the same way when your labour no longer has value.

>>8972220
Revolutions only happen when the people have nothing. You think it will be harder now with the technology we have than in the past? Technology can be taken you know, starving people don't really give a shit about that piece of paper that says you own things.

>>8972227
>Revolutions only happen when the people have nothing
Not true

>You think it will be harder now with the technology we have than in the past?
I think it will be impossible. Especially since the people with all the money are going to be the ones with access to the tech and who have the knowledge to use it.

>>8972234
Technology isn't that hard to use, and if it is difficult to use the information can be tortured out of them. If that's impossible then explosives are pretty easy to make and you can destroy technology.

>>8972227
Stealing a GPU won't give you the ability to implement artificial intelligence algorithms.

>>8972250
Those kind of tactics don't work so well if the enemy has no reason not to use overwhelming force.

>>8968424
???
In McDonalds around here employees will tell you to order from the computers if you try to order from the counter.

>>8968326

> current AI state

> He doesn't realised the strides image processing has taken.

>>8972251
>>8972252
Now you're drifting off into a scifi universe way different from our own. May as well just start calling the ruling class omniscent omnipresent omnipotent gods.

>>8972280
Yeah. It's not like artificial intelligence based mass surveillance systems are real or anything.

>>8972282
If that's true then why keep up the facade of protecting the lower classes? Why not just do a class genocide?

>>8972291
That's exactly my point.
We need to be retraining people and keeping them employed and productive as long as possible. Meanwhile, people need to stop having kids.

>>8972295
Alternatively just start the class war and get it over with if we aren't needed and they have the power to. I'd love to see them try. Even after the war is over I doubt they'd last long before turning on each other, being the sociopaths that they are.

>>8971381
Most middle class jobs are getting completely redone to be automated RIGHT fucking now. Anything that requires less than at least like a year and a half to learn can be repeated easily by robots or any other automated process you can think of.

The only thing protecting a lot of people is the cost analysis for certain jobs. If people can get by paying humans minimum wage to do multiple jobs then they rather have the upfront profits than to invest.

>>8972306
>Alternatively just start the class war and get it over with if we aren't needed and they have the power to.
Still at least a decade or two before that could happen.

>>8971887
Do you have any idea how many jobs would be eliminated if cars/trucks could drive themselves?

>>8966898
And even that is still behind the times, you can do the same fucking thing on your smart phone and pay at the same time.

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>>8971098
>automation and digitalisation are unlikely to destroy large numbers of jobs
>Own paper says average of 9% of jobs are at substantial risk
>That's hundreds of millions of jobs

>>8972312
So what we really need to do is transition to communism asap if the human race wants a chance at survival.

>>8972385
no

>>8972390
I don't hear any other suggestions.

>>8971172
Worried about automation.

There's things to be worried about all over the place economically with interest rates and low birthrates (mixed with anti-immigration stances taking hold means population stagnation may occur) but not with this.

>>8971171

>muh population is growing
>doesn't say it's only growing in the shit part of the world
>shills for communism

I fucking hate it when /pol/ is right.

>>8972442
Hi /pol/. You aren't fooling anybody.

>>8966890
Jesus christ. 3 years isn't a whole lot of time for anything to happen. When, in the history of ever, as anything changed noticably in 3 years time.

>>8968424
I only use those

>>8971243
So, an algorithm meant to continually spread and expand itself is pointless?

I'm sorry, were we talking about society or biological life?

>>8971098
>Czechoslovakia

>>8972481
1915-1918

>>8966890
You retard, it doesn't randomly happen just because we are capable of it. Or because a fucking youtube video makes up some shit for views. There are so many political, social and economical things that relate to it. For one: something will not be automated if it costs too much relative to how much employees already cost as well as efficiency. The automaton will be far more efficient but economically, a lot of tech is undeveloped/industry for it isn't mature and to develop it you need to pour money into it, which people don't want to do. This is the same for a lot of tech. Eventually it will come to be, as overall the efficiency and long-running costs are far superior. Personally with my limited scientific and engineering knowledge, I could replace plenty of jobs given enough resources (many are simply a case of restructuring the functionality of a workplace, many jobs are basically conflated, useless positions -- jobs that occur due to poor or inefficient tech also come under this, it can be redesigned and restructured).

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>>8970163
>repair
We already have robots capable of self repair:
https://rpk.lcsr.jhu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Davis16_A-Robot-Capable-of-Autonomous-Robotic-Team-Repair.pdf

>>8968282
This isn't the 80s anymore, industrial robots don't use hydraulics these days.

>>8966890
>No progress
>Multitude of companies actively testing autonomous cars on the open road
Do you think technology is going to magically stop progressing? 3 years ago we didn't have auto checkouts here

>>8967432
Another post proving engineers are dumb as a sack of bricks

>>8971888

You have leverage over the government through voting, and the government has unlimited power to tax according to the desires of its elected composition.

Automated fast food ordering systems will really take off when they implement voice recognition so that a computer can take your order just the same as a human would.

>those home voice gadgets are just the maturing tech before rollout

>>8967365
It's 2017. There are no factories in the developed world.

>>8968424
yes, for me with using them i feel like i am cutting the line, feels great

>>8971171
> CGP Grey
>"Kurzgesagt – In a Nutshell" or what is this
> same channels

>>8972914
Even if it doesn't come to be due to bureaucratic roadblocks it makes the idea just as big a meme.

>>8966890
Its more of a legal/socioeconomic problem at this point. I work with robots and automation on a daily basis. I can tell you right now that given a few FANUC robots and some conveyor belts (throw in some photo eyes and transducers for flavor) I alone could automate every single McJob out there very easily. In fact, its much easier than the tasks i program robots for currently. The problem is large start up costs make the idea unappealing when you have shareholders to please and employees that work for $7.00/hr. If we raise minimum wage to $15/hr i can guarantee you will see more automation in low skill jobs almost immediately.
>self driving cars are just as unavailable as they were a decade ago
Nigger have you never heard of tesla autopilot? Yes its pretty limited at the moment, but before you sperg out on that point you must realize this is a LEGAL issue, not a tech issue. The laws for self driving cars need to be written before you go throwing them on the streets, and lawmakers are much slower than technology. If you buy a tesla tomorrow, at some point in the future you will receive a sofware update that makes it completely autonomous, as soon as it becomes legal. This is not a guess, its a promise.

The only people who say automation is a meme are too uneducated on exactly what we are doing with robots RIGHT NOW, or are just too plain stupid to understand. Even if you fall under both of those categories, to think that technology wont advance enough to eliminate most jobs out there you must just be scared that yours is in the crosshairs and wishing desperately that it wont happen. I program these fuckers and even im aware that some day my job will be done by a machine, quit being a pussy and accept your future robot overlords.

>>8973356
software*

>>8966890
ah yes... i guess if some anon on /sci/ says it i will ignore the impact that economists and technologists agree automation will have on the world

>it hasn't hapened yet
>therefore it will never happen
I'm not saying it absolutely will happen, but even a 5 year old child can hopefully see why this is a terrible argument. At least throw some stats around to SHOW it won't happen.

>>8973356
I'm mostly interested in the social consequences. Will there be an attempt to invent new, totally useless jobs to mask the effects of automation? Will societies transition to servant economies where everyone is someone's personal maid? Will billions of people just be denied everything and rot away? Will civilisation crash and burn as the desperate unemployed do suicide attacks against the rich? Will communism rise again, this time in developed countries?

>>8973203
Voting isn't leverage, it's a privileged granted by the government exactly the same as your basic income.

>>8973475
Holy shit dude.

I hope you're underage. Would be the only acceptable explanation for you not knowing how voters have leverage over the government. Or what leverage means.

>>8973481
Tell me what leverage you and the other 90% of people living on basic income would have if the government suddenly decided people without jobs don't get to vote?

dumbass

>>8971077
Singularitarians are.

>>8966890
>>8967331
Op has lived centuries and throughout the ages he has learned one thing: he is a brainlet

>>8971901
>He doesn't develop algorithms which calculate which algorithms they should invest in
Get with the times, gramps

>>8973386
Communism is the only possible solution to an automated world.

>>8967411
>being against something that fundamentally
Hmm maybe economics work a little differently if we are almost at post scarcity.
Saying it's communism meqns literally nothing.

>>8974141
There's no such thing as post scarcity

>>8974148
>hurr durr there is no perfect X
wow so we only get 99% post scarcity good point

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>>8973356
>Nigger have you never heard of tesla autopilot?

>cites /sci/'s favorite snake oil salesman

Yeah, and Musk is going to build an underground superhighway from LA to NY, too...

There's shit loads of office work that an AI could learn by watching a human. I can see stuff like insurance industry being killed by AI, truckers being out of work because computers can drive well enough on a highway.

Also some art like Anime is so unoriginal that a program could at least write episode scripts for junk like that. An AI program could learn coloring and in-betweening by looking at humans which cloud immediately put a lot of junior animators out of work.

However I think there's still going to be a shit load of minimum wage work as even something like folding clothes was an extremely complex task for computers until recently.

>>8973475
What laws could you pass that stop private companies from automating what they want to automate?

>>8971887
There are already automated trucks at mines in Australia. It's pretty neat, actually. Sucks for the people who used to make bank driving them, but it's amazing to see them in action and it has lowered the rates of accidents. Look it up.

The technology for automating vehicles is going to be driven ( :^) ) by the needs of industry. There will of course be consumer models.

>>8973246
What. How can you be so wrong. My mom works at a medical plastics manufacturing plant right now. Worked up from IT slave to head of IT for North and South America. I don't think you can do that anymore without a college degree like she did, though. Anyway, there's a weber grill manufacturing plant up the street, and several plastics manufacturing plants within 20 miles from where I'm sitting. You're wrong.

worse than real alarmists are what I like to call the "anti-alarmists" : nothing is ever wrong, everything is okay and anything that could be horrible on a global scale is liberal propaganda
- automation is a meme
- climate change is a meme
- overpopulation is a meme

>>8973356
most on /sci/ are NEETs or work shit retail / warehouse, so of course they're scared shitless of automation. they're pretty much sticking fingers in their ears and going "LA LA LA AUTOMATION IS A MEME"

>>8974482
So what you're saying with no great wars, famine, disease or exodus to cull population levels, the industrial revolution, vaccines and antibiotics, and world peace were all a mistake?

>>8973492
There would have to be a vote to decide that retard.

>>8974536
really makes you think

>>8974543
I'm waiting for your attempt at explaining how western governments made up by 99% elected (voted in) officials could get away with something like this.

>>8974547
>western governments made up by 99% elected (voted in) officials

Are you retarded?
99.9% of people in government are career bureaucrats and never ran an election for anything.
Actual elected officials make up an incredibly small portion of government.

Also, it's not like democracies haven't turned into dictatorships before.
If you have have the power you can whatever the fuck you want.

>>8974552
I was obviously referring to the people who vote on laws.

>>8974560
The elected representatives of the people don't have so much power if the people's votes no longer count, now do they?

You are thinking about the future from a very 'end of history'-esqe mindset.
True instability in government is unthinkable to most westerners who aren't in their 90's, but it really does happen.

>>8974560
Laws have to be enforced. In corrupt countries coups often happen when some political group tries to oust someone through legal means and they say "actually nah, I ain't gotta do shit", and sometimes they are right. They have control of loyal officers who in turn control a bunch of young men from some tribe on the other side of the country who would otherwise be destitute without the army and are uneducated and know nothing about politics. They will shoot protestors.

Now if those protestors are middle classes and skilled workers and shooting them will collapse the economy, the loyal officers might wonder what the point is. If the army consists of more than niggers with ak47s and needs a military industrial complex, that works in favor of the protestors as well. However if the protestors are welfare queens and the MIC is automated the elite will wonder why they have to listen to them, they will send their drone gunships to conduct a nice little genocide.

>>8974602
>Now if those protestors are middle classes and skilled workers and shooting them will collapse the economy, the loyal officers might wonder what the point is. If the army consists of more than niggers with ak47s and needs a military industrial complex, that works in favor of the protestors as well. However if the protestors are welfare queens and the MIC is automated the elite will wonder why they have to listen to them, they will send their drone gunships to conduct a nice little genocide.
Very concise way to put it

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There really is no hope, is there? I doubt a society with UBI will pay enough to afford a traditional middle class lifestyle. My dreams of living in the country and tinkering with old cars will never come to fruition, and most people will basically be living like perpetual college students with nothing to do.
Automation is the final nail in the coffin of the American dream, and it's sickening how people are embracing this and pointing and laughing at those who don't.

>>8966898
yes but who makes the food?

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What I find annoying is when people suggest that automation is going to replace workers in fields they know nothing about.

For instance, the technology that would be necessary to completely automate an entire farm would easily require millions of dollars. From tomatoes to watermelon to chickens to cows, there is a huge amount of variation and tons of variables to account for. Some things need to be strung up onto stakes and some need to be deflowered. Hell, designing something that could do something as small a piece of the puzzle as harvesting a single plant effectively (considering the high amount of variation in each plant to high amounts of variation of rain and sunlight) is so far out of reach not to mention planting, irrigating, cultivating and tilling which all vary according to plants and most farms do a huge variety of plants from Aliums to Brassicas to Solanecae.

There's just so much shit to account for, and the whole automation thing is basically a bunch of Engineering undergrads attempting to justify their choice of major but not understanding that you can't just turn everything into a spherical cow and call it a day. Shit has no basis in reality.

Who the fuck has millions of dollars to drop down at the beginning of a season? It's a huge risk that's not even close to being economical.

>>8966890
Are you fucking retarded? Do you even know what a PLC is?

>>8976173
The same argument could be applied to making a car, yet that is easily done. It only seems difficult if you think about automation as one machine doing many tasks. In reality, it's many machines doing a single task.

>>8976173
Brainlet Farmer

>>8976200
Sure but you still aren't taking into account the economics of the situation. The automobile market and the agriculture market are astonishingly different.

Don't get me wrong. I've encountered tractors with costly implements that perform functions well beyond human efficiency, but you still can't drive a tractor through a field when things are wet and muddy, and that goes the same for any wheeled vehicle which I'd assume would be what would be required apart from a couple things that could be achieved by drone.

Still, most businesses simply cannot afford it. Maybe if the whole "indoor vegetable" market took off, but the market for that drops the more you get away from cities.

>>8976207
Spoiled, dependent brat.

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>>8976218
> but you still can't drive a tractor through a field when things are wet and muddy, and that goes the same for any wheeled vehicle
hmm
what about tracked vehicles

>>8976224
A couple things:

>Low turning potential which is highly necessary for a large number of specific crops or anything out of hay/grains production
>Much higher chance of something breaking
>When the above case happens, it's tons more expensive and a whole lot harder to fix
>Damages the shit out of the land
>Not just land but any sort of pavement for that matter
>Still puts enormous stress on transmission which cuts overall expectancy of the tractor by a lot

Tracked vehicles have always been a tight niche for a reason.

>>8976236
>Damages the shit out of the land
>Not just land but any sort of pavement for that matter
interesting. I would have thought that load was distributed more so it would be less damaging

>>8976173
The aim is not to automate everything in one go that is the end goal. Automation is a gradual process. Jobs that are easy to automate will be automated in turn reducing the number of human workers needed. Your whole farm won't be automated at once.

>>8976240
the first jobs that will be automated are probably management jobs,human resources,finance, etc.
far as im concerned managers are at risk because they have such insanely high salaries and they are expensive to have. you can have a software that tracks performance for certain workers in the office,gives you automatic penalties etc. you don't need a fuckin manager for every job, an overseer is enough.

for other types of jobs like self driving trucks and self sustaining stores is just some bullshit. mark zuckerberg said 20k jobs are going to be automated, do you really believe him?

>>8976239
You're right about this, actually. What I learned previously only applied to steel plated tracks and the issue has been improved with the use of rubber tracks. However there is the part where more horsepower is necessary to turn, which creates more compaction on turns, so it again depends on use, and tires have the advantage for any use that requires lots of turning.

>>8976240
A major portion of my farm's market revolves around sustainable agriculture and that it is a small, local business which will last immune to these changes long to come. I do understand where you're coming from, and I do agree that eventually yes, most of everything will probably get automatized and the shift from a scarcity based economy to a resource based economy is inevetible. I just disagree with how long it will take.

>>8976258
We can't be sure what will be automated first.If something has the possibility of disrupting large number of people, we should be prepared for it.

Self driving trucks and other automation are actually scarily effective.
The number of jobs need not be 20k it could be much less but if the number of people displaced is large enough it will cause a lot of problems.

>>8976275
Nobody can be sure how long it will take.

I love when people say "all programming and software development will be automated too!". Usually these people have never written a single line of code in their lives and have no idea what they're talking about.

>>8976340
I mean, eventually it will...

>>8976347
in the long term everyone is dead

>>8971243
sounds like the writer has a case of economic fantastic nihilism

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>Talking about Automation
>Not even mentioning PID's or Control Theory

Sorry mathfags, we engineers are leading this robotic revolution

>>8966890
>Say it with me: automation is a meme

What's your picture of, OP?

>>8971643
I don't see why people wouldn't simply use this technology to be almost completely economically independent from one another.

>>8966890
Politics, price, and people.
Same reasons that they're still using black powder muskets to fight Boko Haram in africa.