Are mathematics invented or discovered?

>are

>>8961469
dumb frogposter

>>8961469
We discover in an invented axiomatic system. We do "invent" new ways to think about math, but it is still discovering something imo.

>>8961469
The rules and consistency of mathematics would be the same even if the universe never existed, therefore I'm inclined to say that it's discoverred.

>>8961566
>The rules and consistency of mathematics would be the same even if the universe never existed

That's one hell of an assumption.

did concepts exist before humans had them?

>>8961469
Who is that?

>>8961566
If you're talking about physical reality, I agree.

>>8961659
Some frog character in Boku no hero academia

>>8961469

Invented

>>8961566

>The rules and consistency of mathematics would be the same even if the universe never existed

Sure okay, but that is true of all rules. So are you saying that "Wash your hands before eating", is discovered? That sounds silly, I know, but its as much of a rule as those of mathematics.

>>8961624

Hes right tho. Suppose they were different. Then they would be different rules entirely. If you came up with some bullshit system where 1 + 1 = 3 some how, it wouldnt be the same rule that works differently, it would be a different rule entirely. The identity of a rule IS how it works.

>>8961469
>are languages invented or discovered?

Languages are invented to convey thoughts and observations of the world.
Mathematics is a very complex language created in order to convey propositions about our world.

>>8961685

>Mathematics is a very complex language created in order to convey propositions about our world.

Bullshit. Name even one way that mathematics resembles a natural language.

>>8961705
1 = "one"

>>8961705
It has syntax (a formal grammar) and semantics (a model, in fact multiple models), what more could you want?

>>8961671
To suggest that the mathematical rules we currently have would still be true if our universe formed any differently, or in another universe entirely, is absurd. Our particular rules of physics, and mathematics by that extension, may only apply to this universe.

>>8961566
brainlet detected

>>8961496
this thread should have stopped by post 3

>>8961469
Mathematics are derived from simpler concepts.

You are constructing and exploring a logical framework.

>>8961566
>mathmatics only has one form
you are the fool.

>>8961496
Only logical response