Are animal species a spectrum? Just because an animal has dog

Good question. It probably is. But is a gender of an animal a spectrum as well? Can my dog be trans?

they quite literally are a spectrum. taxonomy is not as precise of a model as population genetics.

>>8873258
Not really animal species, the definition here is rigid: the ability to produce fertile offspring.

What intrigues me more is bacteria species, since they reproduce by simply dividing, there are no real "parents". Additionally, bacteria can exchange genes during their lifetimes with completely different species of bacteria through plasmids, transposons and general uptake of DNA. How the fuck are species defined among bacteria? Any microbiologist or just a well educated person here to answer?

>>8873265
So my cat can be dog gendered?

>>8873277
I remember there being certain primates, often considered to be different species but since they did not split off all that long ago some populations of the two species have been shown to have fertile offspring (both males and females) I suppose this showcases the spectrum-like nature of species and the imprecisions of classical taxonomy.

>>8873285
cats and dogs are too far apart on the spectrum, sorry.

>>8873293
hmm i guess so. There is also the case of the mule: if a male donkey and a female horse (1st generation) produce a female mule (2nd generation), then that mule can mate with another male donkey and produce another mule (3rd generation). The 2nd gen mule could be considered as a fertile offsping, but the genes in the 3rd gen mule originating from the 2nd gen mule are actually the same as those originating from the 1st gen horse. It only works in this scenario so it's not a viable defiance of the principle, but rather fascinating nonetheless.

>>8873277
>Not really animal species, the definition here is rigid: the ability to produce fertile offspring.
except it's not at all and the definition isn't very strict. there are plenty of species that can produce fertile offspring with other species.

its obviously a spectrum in terms of gene difference, with enough gene different disabling the ability to produce fertile offspring, but that threshold of disablement not being consistent or precise.

How can you NOT think gender is a spectrum? There are more masculine and less masculine men, aren't there?

>>8873258
gender of a given species is different from species

you highschooler

i guess we should just let highscoolers take over the country

who even cares anymore?

>>8874530
being more masculine doesn't make you more male
you're either male or you're not
consider the fact you can become more masculine

>>8874540
You cannot become more masculine. You're conflating terms.

But I'm arguing with /pol/ which knows nothing so...

>>8874543
>you cannot become more masculine
what makes you say that? of course you can become more masculine, being fit helps as does having testosterone in your system etc

>>8874544
Do you have conscious control over the level of testosterone in your system?

>>8874546
I can inject testosterone into my arm, I can have sex, I could have good genes, I could generally be healthy

>>8874549
>i could have good genes
That is not within your conscious control

>>8874553
so what

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>>8873277
From a purely phylogenetic perspective, you're right that the concept of species may not be that useful.

However - outside of academic taxonomy this is probably less important. We know that E. coli and Shigella are so closely related that some people say Shigella is a subtype of E. coli, but clinically they cause quite different diseases. In this case a phenotypical definition is probably more useful than a 'genetically-correct' one.

I don't think there's really a consensus on the way forward - it may end up a bit like plants, where botanists, horticulturalists, agriculturists etc use somewhat different classification systems.

good reading:

http://schaechter.asmblog.org/schaechter/2017/01/do-bacterial-species-really-exist-and-why-should-we-care.html (great micro blog)


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17923431

>>8873258
Yes, they are. The closer they are in the spectrum, the more likely they can have offspring, which creates a more diverse spectrum of species over time.

Example: Liger

>arguing about boxes

>>8874530
gender is irrelevant to science

>>8874694
You are giving examples of outliers. Only a ridiculously small amount of species can interbreed and produce an offspring. Which is why they are considered outliers.

>>8873258
>Are animal species a spectrum?
Yes.

>Just because an animal has dog genes assigned at birth, does it really make it a dog?
Yes.

PS: That is not contradictory.

>>8874530
Thank you. I'm remembering this.

>>8874749
So then because a person has male genes assigned at birth, it does make him a male.

Thanks for clarifying that.

>>8874742
>outliers
As opposed to inbreeders?
>badum tch

>>8873258
A cat raised by dogs is pretty much a dog socially. If it were somehow forced to act like a cat, it would mess its psychology up. Any sane person would agree the best thing to do is let it be itself and act like a dog. Any insane bigoted person would agree we must force it to act like a cat forever just because it's "weird" and contrary to the teachings of the big magic SkyDaddy that talks to us in our dreams.

>>8874759
so dogs are only "dogs" because they are forced to adopt the dog culture which is animal abuse. But infact a dog is actually a goat or an elephant in closet.

>>8874755
Didn't say that.

>>8874767
Well it doesn't make him a female. Otherwise he would have different chromosomes. This is like bilogoy 101

>>8874546
Yes, you do squats. Lots of squats. Your latent blood testosterone is directly correlated to the volume of your gluteus muscles.

>>8874530
There are only two genders but tge cognitive state can vary

Hyper rational(Autistic Brain)
Semi rational(Normal Male Brain)
Neutral
Semi emotional
Hyper emotional(Nornal female brain)
Semi Instinctive(Stupid humans)
Hyper Instinctive(Blacks)

>>8874763
No, animals are racist dog breeds are known to attack eachother for no reason.

>>8874789
So you're implying that the gender spectrum goes from autistic to negroid? That's an interesting scale, I must admit.

>>8874768
more like bigotology 101 shitlord.

Also mind my pronouns.

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>>8873258
>>8873263

>>8873277
>Not really animal species, the definition here is rigid: the ability to produce fertile offspring.

I thought it had been redefined to include the concept of "can and do" rather than just "can." Two populations that CAN interbreed but don't do it being now considered separate species.

Or did my brain make that up?

>>8873299
My cat is a trans-tiger, though.

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>>8874759
>Doggo is a social construct.

>>8873258
>Just because an animal has dog genes assigned at birth, does it really make it a dog?

Yes.

And it's "Assigned" at conception, not a birth, dipshit.

>>8876604
Misgendering your dog is animal abuse and you can end up in jail for abuse. Prison is a tough place though, it's better if you kill yourself right now.

>>8876624
>Misgendering your dog is animal abuse

Navy_Seals(Post).obj

>>8873258
>>8873263
These are the scientific questions that need answers

>>8873277
There are examples of some species of birds where there's a "middle" species that can produce viable offspring with two other species, but those other two species can not breed with each other.

So you have species A, B, C
B can breed with A and C, but A and C can not breed with each other.

I think it's a type of seagull