Seriously tell me how working at the NSA is not a good deal

>>8861558
>job security
only brainlets worry about that
>pays for masters/PhD
only brainlets can't get scholarships/funding

Maybe the whole "spying on people" thing has something to do with it.

>>8861558

It's great.

>>8861558
some people actually have morals

>>8861558
>How the fuck is everyone so against working for them?

Oh a government organization whose very purpose is to eliminate any and all privacy of United States' (and possibly other countries') citizens?

Yea man, I have no idea why someone would have morals.

>>8861587
>Executive agency is created that has the word "security" in the title
Finally, someone that will be there with me while I sleep.

>>8861558
“Did I ever tell you about the time the NSA took me out to go get a drink? We go off looking for a bar and we can’t find one. Finally, the NSA takes me into a vacant lot and says, ‘Here we are.’ Well, we sat there for a year and a half. Sure enough, someone constructed a bar around us. Well, the day they opened it, we ordered a shot, drank it, and then burnt the place to the ground. The NSA yelled over the roar of the flames, ‘Always leave things the way you found them!'”

>>8861558
government jobs don't pay shit.

thats something you do in your 40's when you just want to throw your heels up and wait for a pension.

>>8861558
I don't believe spying on innocent people is morally right

>>8861587
Why do you care if you have nothing to hide, hm?

>>8862105
why do you care about freedom of speech if you have nothing to say?

>>8862105
People may want to hide things that aren't illegal.

>>8861587
Fuck you for disrespecting the majority of people there who are trying to keep our country safe. And they are SUPPOSED TO spy on foreign govts other than the Five Eyes. That isn't immoral. True they also spy on US citizens which is wrong, but you can't discredit the whole organization for that. Get off your high horse nigga

And to OP. I would totally work there if they let me smoke weed

>>8862124
>if they let me smoke weed
they probably will. most federal agencies don't drug test except for maybe once when you come on board. drug tests are expensive and not really worth it unless the employee is dealing with weapons or heavy equipment or something.

i blazed it all the time when i worked for the social security administration.

>>8862136
true but don't most agencies also do random testing? so over like a 10-20 year period you could get tested at least once. i don't wanna lost career over that or have to worry about it. i know some DOD labs don't even test when you get hired. seems pretty random. Also at any point you may need a higher clearance and they could test you bc of that

>>8862159
>true but don't most agencies also do random testing?

nope. the only time they test is if something goes horribly wrong and they think you did it.

you gotta remember, the gubmint doesn't pay very well. like not at all compared to the private sector. every agency is scratching for a nickle when it comes to funds and competent people.

they don't test you when you get a security clearance unless you are doing the crazy lifestyle polygraph type shit and you are given months of notice in advance for it. trust me man, there are tons of stoners in the federal government. its why everything takes forever to get accomplished.

>>8861558
I know a couple people who work there and they seem to like it. NSA sent them back for their masters at john Hopkins, they lived overseas for a few years, make six figures, etc. It's a really good gig for any engineer or mathematician.

>>8862167
how likely would i get tested when accepting a job with DOD or NASA? and when do they actually test you? like right when you get a formal offer, when you start, sometime in between?

How selective are they? How good do you have to be? Will they not accept me for reading the unabomber manifesto?

>>8862348
>NASA
LOL probably fucking never. they don't do anything nearly important enough to warrant it. NASA is the probably biggest bunch of stoners out of all the federal agencies next to the EPA.

>DOD
they might test you, and if they do its going to be right before or right on your starting day. like i said, unless you are dealing with weapons or some super high level security shit, it will be a one time thing and they will explicitly tell you in the job posting about it. in fact they will probably give you multiple reminders through the hiring process.

>>8862105
I have shit to hide. Are you such a loser that you don't?

>>8862383
Why don't you just get in touch with someone from the agency? If you're ready to apply you should already know where their people regularly hang out. Or do you just want to do an interview right here on /sci/?

>>8862105
Post your full name, address and the password to any social media accounts you have right here on 4chan if you have nothing to hide then :^)

>>8861558

You're probably missing a key reason why anyone on /sci/ would want to join and that's information. GCHQ formulated an asymmetric cryptographic algorithm, four years before RSA... and it took the mathematician only a half-hour to figure it out.

If you join the NSA, you'll have access to mathematics that no-one outside that agency has seen. You'll finally get an answer on whether quantum computing is viable, without the odd vagueness of public companies with PR firms. You'll get to play with algorithms that no-one will see for years.

But the fact that even mentioning the NSA in this thread has probably deemed it relevant to archive for "evidence" really gets to the core of what's wrong with that agency. Alexander not only weaponized the NSA against the world, but against the American people. The combined intelligence network of the western world is probably the closest we'll ever come to meeting a god.

>>8862407
I would give that stuff to the government because I trust that they vet their workers so that the kind of abuse that would happen if I posted my info on 4cham doesn't occur. Maybe I'll be more cautious if someone actually manages to abuse their position as a government employee to scam a ton of people, but until that day I trust Uncle Sam.

>>8862428
Lol a god?

I highly doubt that a relatively small group of people being paid little more than most academics who are constantly facong deadlines to produce applied stuff are going to come up with answers to all the hard questions. One or two relevant to their interests maybe, but it's absurd to think they have a massive amount of secret math developed.

>>8862440

I meant in respect to omniscience.

>>8862430
>Maybe I'll be more cautious if someone actually manages to abuse their position as a government employee to scam a ton of people, but until that day I trust Uncle Sam.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-intelligence-state-charges-idUSKBN1702U8

Oh yes... cause that never happens.

>>8862477
That's obviously fake news made to undermine trust in our government.

>>8862390
Damn that is reassuring. Don't certain clearances require it no matter what? I know someone who got Secret w/o drug testing but I'm not sure if you can get Top Secret w/o it

>>8862136
>>8862167
DoD employee here, never been tested but like anon said I've heard of it happening if you fuck up bigtime.

If you were to get tested it'd either be on your first day like other anon said, or maybe when you get your fingerprints taken and are getting your security clearance processed

>>8862552
>Don't certain clearances require it no matter what?

I had to do it for a TS.

There's nothing wrong with spying. None of you are that special.

If it's morally acceptable to experiment on animals, this is much more benign since it doesn't affect you in any way.

Privacy is a spectrum.

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>>8862519
>That's obviously fake news made to ESTABLISH trust in our government.

>>8861558
>not having your phd funded by the school

>>8861558
If you get hired please track down and kill the fucker who keeps posting Bill Nye bait threads.

>>8862566
How does one fuck up bigtime?

>>8862573
How much advance notice did you have? I assume you were already an employeee beforehand. I don't wanna have my boss just show up in my office one day and say "Hey you need a TS clearance. Report for drug testing this afternoon"

>>8865054
>How much advance notice did you have?
A few months

> I assume you were already an employeee beforehand
No that was part of the clearance process

Watch Goodwill hunting. Matt Damion does an excellent job of explaining why working for the NSA is a bad idea. Not just for you but for everyone.

>>8864993
It's actually a spectrum of guys

>>8861558
>How the fuck is everyone so against working for them?
There's this whole "selling your soul to the devil" part. People with a conscience have an issue with that.

>>8865054
>How does one fuck up bigtime?
break something really expensive or get someone hurt. basically anything that could make the news.

>How much advance notice did you have?
look man, gubmint jobs have clear cut bureaucracy. you will know before you even take the job whether or not its a drug tested position. you will most likely sign a form that even says you acknowledge that its a drug tested position.

> "Hey you need a TS clearance. Report for drug testing this afternoon"

that doesn't happen. they don't foist clearances on people like that. you have to actively pursue positions like that.

>>8862136
what really is the logic behind this? Why can't someone handling weapons smoke weed?

And why would they even bother giving you the drug test one time when you first get the job if they're never going to do it again? I mean with all the incredible government waste it would be a drop in the bucket to subject you to regular tests.

Is it really just paying lip service to the concept that they shouldn't hire druggies, while semi-acknowledging that if they really tried to enforce a no-drug policy that they wouldn't have any employees?

Now that I say it out loud I guess that's the simplest and most likely explanation

>>8865217

>letting dude weed impede your personal and career goals

Weed must be very important to you. I don't smoke myself, but I can't imagine a world where I'd give up aspirations in my field just so I can >420 blaze it.

>>8865225
at no point did I indicate that I smoked weed or that I couldn't quit smoking weed for the 30 days it apparently takes to get an NSA job, assuming I wanted one despite all the other reasons not to want one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw

>>8861558
>see something you weren't supposed to
>end up comitting suicide by shooting yourself twice in the back of the head

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>>8861558
Once you enter, you can never truly leave. I appreciate having the option option to go elsewhere, including to other nations. Besides, I'm not sure I'd trust myself with state secrets.

>>8865247
that was dumb

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>>8862136
>>8865217
>>8865225
>Applicant drinks alcohol
>Allowed to have the job as long as they don't show up drunk

>Applicant smokes cigarettes
>Allowed to have the job as long as they don't smoke in the building or during work hours

>Applicant smokes weed
>Applicant can't have the job ever

>The people making and enforcing these rules are considered competent enough to be in charge of the national security of a first-world country

>>8865895
stop smoking weed

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>>8865913

>>8864993
>Implying it's just one guy

It's actually a spectrum of people

>>8862566
How can one get into DARPA?

>>8861566
>>8861585
>>8861587
>>8861611
>>8862102
ok guys, when one day some actual shit happens, like maybe texas got nuked, you really would fucking wish someone out there collected every fucking message transmitted right before the nuke got launch. EVERY message.

Someone has to do the fucking job. Grow up from your stupid spying insecurity because there's actual business that has to be dealt with.

>>8861558
There's nothing inherently wrong with it. Morality and Ethics are a spectrum.

>>8866186
Lol not only would all that information be next to useless after the fact, but even before you have little chance of stopping anything because it takes too much time to sift through everything, even with automation. All it really accomplishes is giving pointless jobs to a bunch of people and allowing creeps to spy on their exes. In the event that everything goes to shit all this spying at best puts those spying in a stronger position but does fuck all for me.

>>8866583
>the world revolves around me

>>8861558
Seriously tell me how working for literally hitler is not a good deal

>job security
>pays for masters/PhD
>get to work on interesting math problems

How the fuck is everyone so against working for him?

>>8865217
>what really is the logic behind this? Why can't someone handling weapons smoke weed?

its weapons and/or heavy equipment. basically anything that has the potential to kill someone if you are high when handling. if you are just some dude sitting behind a computer, you being blazed when you come in to work won't really matter.

>And why would they even bother giving you the drug test one time when you first get the job if they're never going to do it again?

its proof of efficacy that you aren't a total addict and can restrain yourself for the 30 days to get clean.

>Is it really just paying lip service to the concept that they shouldn't hire druggies, while semi-acknowledging that if they really tried to enforce a no-drug policy that they wouldn't have any employees?

thats pretty close.

>>8861558
Stop worrying about the opinions of others.

>>8866602
>>8866726
>yfw the real job you get at the NSA is making these posts

>>8862398
I'm not ready to apply, not even a junior yet

>>>/po/
>>>/po/
>>>/po/
>>>/po/
>>>/po/
FUCK OFF

>>8861558
Goverment jobs should be only used as last resort though.
Or if you're a nationalist that wants to protect the USA then it's the first thing you apply for it.

IMO /sci/ shouldn't shit on them because you never know if you'll work with them later on desu.

>>8862105
If you have nothing to hide it means nobody will trust you.

>>8865184
Stop acting morally superior, you passive agressive faggot. Selling your soul would be working for Apple or MS, not serving your country as a civilian

>>8865184
Conscience is a spectrum, you fucking twat.

>>8865202
but by the time i get that form, how long will i have to detox before i have to actually do the test? that's what im worried about

>>8865247
>not realizing that this is supposed to display Will's immaturity, not his intelligence

>>8866583
>giving pointless jobs to a bunch of people
you have no idea what the NSA actually does, do you?

>>8865247
>3 minutes of word diahrrea

>>8867726
months.

think about how long it takes for ANYTHING to get done in the government.

>>8867570
Paper and origami?

>>8861558
>pays for PhD
name a PhD program worth attending that doesn't fully fund its students + living expenses

>>8862106
god damn wrecked

>>8861558
I was afraid to move across the country

>>8861558
Honest question, how the fuck will you do a PhD while working for the NSA? You won't be able to publish shit.

>>8862136
>>8865895
Hey, I wanted to explain to the both of you why those rules exist.

The government really doesn't give a fuck if you smoke weed or whatever as long as you do your job. Maybe they care on paper but the real people wouldn't care except for one thing: being addicted to drugs or engaged in illegal activity is a security risk. If some foreign agent finds out, it can be used to blackmail you into providing government secrets. They can threaten to expose you to family, etc. For this reason they would also want to know about someone with gambling debts, or other embarrassing traits.

Hope that clears things up for the both of you.

>>8869104
Yeeeah, I don't have any problem with drug testing for high risk and high security jobs.

Drug testing for entry level jobs, like McDonald's, where they have no problem hiring literal retards - THAT I have a problem with. I don't care if the kid at Taco Bell is smoking dope in his off hours, so long as he doesn't eat my damned Doritos.

...also if these damned addicts could get basic employment, I wouldn't have to see my catalytic converter stolen, or the copper wiring ripped out of my friend's house while he's on vacation... The latter of which has gotta be hard labor for less than minimum wage.

>>8861558
> job security
needing to have your history scrubbed when applying for jobs elsewhere
> pays for masters
at elite cult-college
> interesting maths problems
required to ignore interesting ethical problems

>>8869090
You work on math unrelated to what you do for the NSA. Someone there checks to make sure it's safe to publish.

>>8862519
>That's obviously fake news


your average trump voter, ladies and gentlemen

I've already been the whistleblower on two incidents that made the national news. The temptation to be a whistleblower a third time would be too great and this time I'd almost certainly get caught.

>>8869226
>needing to have your history scrubbed when applying for jobs elsewhere

I imagine that if you put down that you worked for the NSA, that's all you would need.

>at elite cult-college

What's the problem?

>required to ignore interesting ethical problems

Who gives a fuck?

>>8861558

I would work there in a second.

>>8869104
This is the correct answer.

I'm only interested in taking psychedelics and dissociatives every so often anyway, not anything that would show up on a drug test or become an addiction or be embarrassing if it were exposed that you did it.

>>8870958
Certain empathogens are tested for on a few drug tests, I guess. But I don't know why they would care about that.

>>8867717
Serving your country against the people of your country. Kek

>>8861558
Why shouldn't I work for the N.S.A.? That's a tough one, but I'll take a shot. Say I'm working at N.S.A. Somebody puts a code on my desk, something nobody else can break. Maybe I take a shot at it and maybe I break it. And I'm real happy with myself, 'cause I did my job well. But maybe that code was the location of some rebel army in North Africa or the Middle East. Once they have that location, they bomb the village where the rebels were hiding and fifteen hundred people I never met, never had no problem with, get killed. Now the politicians are sayin', "Oh, send in the Marines to secure the area" 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass. And he comes back to find that the plant he used to work at got exported to the country he just got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his ass got his old job, 'cause he'll work for fifteen cents a day and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile, he realizes the only reason he was over there in the first place was so we could install a government that would sell us oil at a good price. And, of course, the oil companies used the skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices. A cute little ancillary benefit for them, but it ain't helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. And they're takin' their sweet time bringin' the oil back, of course, and maybe even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who likes to drink martinis and fuckin' play slalom with the icebergs, and it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So now my buddy's out of work and he can't afford to drive, so he's got to walk to the fuckin' job interviews, which sucks 'cause the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic hemorrhoids.

>>8866186
why would I care about texas getting nuked

oh no someone blew up the enormous desert wasteland south of Snaggletree Pile of Rocks, it now looks exactly the same

won't someone think of the vast uninhabited scablands

>>8871669
And meanwhile he's starvin', 'cause every time he tries to get a bite to eat, the only blue plate special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with Quaker State. So what did I think? I'm holdin' out for somethin' better. I figure fuck it, while I'm at it why not just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I could be elected president.

>>8862105
because DC is an insane idiot giant and if you can bring yourself to obey all of its edicts 100%, you are a soylent-chugging bug person

>>8871662
Yeah cause they don't do counter terrorism or anything right?

>>8866905
it's called psyops.

>>8871719
/sci/ops

>>8866186
That's a very good point. Also, installing cameras in every house would completely solve domestic violence, at the little cost of causing discomfort to degenerates masturbating to anime porn.

>>8871727
trading liberty for security ... something something

>>8871754
Liberty and security are two ends of a spectrum.

>>8871727
men commit most crime, ergo mandatory forced feminization is the best course of action and trannies are the enemies of degeneracy

>>8861558
They don't pay shit OP I get more than entry level engineers

Job security? All good engineers have job security

Pays for masters/PhD? First off you don't pay for a PhD you get paid, second off all good companies pay for a masters

>>8862428
Lmfao dude

If this applies anywhere it does not apply to the fucking NSA give me a break, they pay shit

This more than likely applies to financial firms

>>8871727
I concur. Maybe while we're at it we should keep people from saying certain words or phrases.

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>>8871773
>ergo mandatory forced feminization
pic related.

>>8866186
Thats why I let my webcam on when I sleep,they need to know how many times Im farting during the night and if possibly can be used for chemical weapons.

>>8866186
This is a brainlet on pure ideology

I'm planning on working for them.

>>8866186
When nsa gets hacked again, we'll be glad the enemy has access to all our emails

>>8871688
I don't know, do they? If so, prove it.

>>8861558
Of course, it's a good deal financially and it might be interesting, too. Just ask yourself if you want to help to turn the world in a 1984-like place. One day, freedom and privacy is dead and some fucked elite says what's good for you.

>>8870958
Government drug test are surprising leniant. No psychedelics or dissociativives, twice the nanogram/ml for THC compared to most civilian test, and a bunch of common prescription drugs on a random baisis "usually 1 out of 50). People that get caught do so on purpose or get high 48 hours before.

>>8871669
>>8871672
Goal of International politics isn't to be good but the least evil. Influences doesn't happen in a vacuum. Whatever America doesn't have it's hands in, other countries will.

There is literally nothing wrong with monitoring humans

>>8872237
>Goal of International politics isn't to be good but the least evil.
Wut? No, the goal is extracting gain for whatever country is doing it.

>>8871727
We'll get to this eventually. Humans probably also ought to live in an international network of ecovillages. People would be much happier like that than everybody being packed together in grimy grey cities.

We need to be reintroduced to our natural habitat, and we'll be our own zookeeers with an AI playing a greater role in zookeeping as time and technology progresses.

>>8872138
Yes, they do. And no thanks

>>8872288
Thanks for clearing that up. I forgot that since it's for national security I should believe they're doing good work and keep giving them money. Normally someone with so much unchecked power would be scamming people out of their money and doing nothing or otherwise abusing their position, but when the job is fighting terrorists things are different.

>>8872212
I don't see why they would test for something like MDA/MDMA or their analogues either. Most tests don't cover that from what I understand.

>>8872302
They do because a bunch of the metabolites are found in amphetamines, including meth, as well. From my experience with DoD, they will disclose exactly what they are testing before provide a sample.

>>8872301
I never said they didn't abuse their power. So do the police, but they are necessary and also do good

>>8861558
>put application in
>30 day reminder that I haven't been chosen
They made it easier to apply so now I can't get an interview.

>>8872318
I can see that the police arrest criminals. Where can I see what the NSA does?

>>8872335
There is plenty of public info about what they do. But how can you ever expect everything to be public for a spy agency? You really think they are not spying on terrorists and Russia/China/NK? That's pretty naive. I agree they need more oversight though

>>8872317
Ah, okay, that makes sense. Not something that I want to do often anyway since it's neurotoxic (even if it isn't as neurotoxic as alcohol).

Hopefully some of the nootropics that I like don't show up as amphetamine. I doubt that they do, but still.

>>8872281
>international network of ecovillage

A 'worldwide network' like the internet would be more accurate, I suppose. We would have no need for nation-states at that point.

>>8872350
How do I even know there are any real terrorists or scary foreign agencies worth spying on? Maybe the NSA is just jerking off all day and running a propaganda campaign to stay funded. If anything, believing in terrorists and nefarious Russian spies without evidence is the naïve position.

>>8872362
Sorry, I didn't realize I was talking to Edgy Brah

Have fun with your conspiracies

And remember, if you only have criticisms and no ideas for solutions, your opinions aren't worth much

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>>8872368
forgot pic

>>8872368
I don't even have criticisms, I'm just trying to verify what the NSA actually does. What is edgy or a conspiracy about trying to learn more about this topic? Why should I just assume that this secretive group of people are doing anything that they say?

I'll be happy to form an opinion in line with yours if you provide some kind of evidence that the NSA is fighting terrorists or Russians.

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>>8861558
Because you will be the slave of a corrupt elite that abuses their power to feed their greed.

>>8866186
what kind of pussy are you that is afraid of texas getting nuked? did you watch too much TV?
you're a scared little bitch

>>8872379
Fair enough, but I don't really want to continue this conversation. If you are truly curious, I suggest you do your own research on these matters instead of 4chan. There is plenty of info online. Good luck

>>8861558
I can't smoke weed