ITT: we discuss gender science.

>gender
>science

>>8853418
ughhhhhh do we have to

>>8853418
people who think they are another sex suffer from a body dysmorphia disorder. Same as skinny people who believe they are fat or vice versa. But because gender identity is a way of corralling voting blocks, the science and patient is ignored for the purpose of political expediency.

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>engineer
>scientist

>>8853418
Reminder that this is the case study that started it all:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

>David Reimer was...referred for circumcision at the age of seven months. On April 27, 1966, a urologist performed the operation using the unconventional method of cauterization,[4]:11–13[6] but the procedure did not go as doctors had planned, and Bruce's penis was burned beyond surgical repair.

>The parents, concerned about their son's prospects for future happiness and sexual function without a penis, took him to Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore in early 1967 to see John Money,[4]:49 a psychologist who was developing a reputation as a pioneer in the field of sexual development and gender identity, based on his work with intersex patients

>Money was a prominent proponent of the "theory of Gender Neutrality"—that gender identity developed primarily as a result of social learning from early childhood and that it could be changed with the appropriate behavioral interventions

>This was later expanded into a full-length book As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl,[8] in which Colapinto described how—contrary to Money's reports—when living as Brenda, Reimer did not identify as a girl. He was ostracized and bullied by peers, and neither frilly dresses (which he was forced to wear during frigid Winnipeg winters)[12] nor female hormones made him feel female.

>On the morning of May 4, 2004, Reimer drove to a grocery store's parking lot and took his own life by shooting himself in the head with a sawed-off shotgun.[13] He was 38 years old.[3]

>0.5% of the population, with a mental disorder, are now going to start dictating what is accepted as objective science according to whatever delusion is in their mind

What about our multipersonality and schizophrenifolk? Does their say not matter? Check your privilege

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I mean, the basic point he's making is fundamentally correct; there's all sorts of weird (physiological) intersex conditions known to medicine, from complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (in which someone who's 46XY develops as female due to their body not responding to male hormones) to 5α-reductase deficiency (in which 46XY children are born phenotypically female and turn mostly male at puberty) to the rare and exotic chimeric hermaphroditism, in which a male embryo and a female embryo combine in early development to produce a single individual with features of both.
>http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199801153380305
>A 3.46-kg infant was delivered vaginally at term; he had a normal right testis and an undescended left testis, with otherwise normal male genitalia. At the age of six months, the left testis was palpable at the inguinal ring. Surgical exploration at the age of 15 months revealed a hernial sac containing an abnormal gonad and vas deferens. These structures were excised; they proved on histologic examination to be an ovary with a fallopian tube attached to a horn of uterus.

And that's not even getting into the neurology aspect of things; there's more and more evidence that the brain is hardwired in some way (probably related to sex differences at a few loci) based on sex; the rare occasions where the physiological sex and the neurological features are mismatched seem to be the root cause of transgender identity.


Of course, there will be the liberal snowflakes who try to say biological sex is a societal construct, just as there will be the conservative crybabies who try to say none of it's real anyway, but some people just aren't interested in reality.

>>8853512
Whenever this idea comes up it reminds me that I'm entering a discussion with someone who hasn't even read a wikipedia article on schizophrenia much less understands what it actually is.

>>8853504
Bachelor of Science. I think engineer > scientist. But some engineers really get off on calling themselves scientist. An engineer can't use computer models or polling fellow engineers as an excuse to explain why his/her shit isn't working. They live or get fired based on tangible results. Where as a scientist can get a job where the results (or lack of) aren't realized until after they are dead or at least after they collected the paycheck.

>>8853528
the reason an engineer can't use an excuse to explain why his shit isn't working is they're using verified results that scientists already produced and checked, so everyone knows they work. the fact that his shit doesn't work is then entirely his fault because it was his one fucking job to just copy the method correctly

>>8853537
Actually the engineer is often used apply what the scientist thinks should work. The engineer then needs to try to make it work. If it can't work then the engineer must try to explain to the scientist why his idea is shit.

>>8853528
>An engineer can't use computer models
you fuckin' wot m8?

>>8853537
>is they're using verified results that scientists already produced and checked

wrong. engineers use empiricism and guesswork that hasn't been placed into a formal framework all the time. steam engines were a thing long before the laws of thermodynamics were written down. electric motors were a thing long before maxwell. and to this day, engineers discover a phenomena and utilize it without necessarily understanding the mechanism. the understanding only becomes important for optimization.

>>8853556
Sentences don't end until you reach the period.

>thread asking about science of gender and sex
>immediately turns into argument about enganeers
fgsfds

>>8853418
Anyone who chooses not to have their own biological children should have their right to vote removed. In fact, there should be a DNA test between parent and child to ensure the parent can be allowed to vote.

People who do not have their own biological children can not be trusted to be voting for the future of mankind.

>>8853496
basically this.

>>8853505
>a failed circumcision started it all
I blame the Jews

>>8853592

are you saying there shouldnt be a voting age? only able to vote once you've had a child?

> voting has an impact on future events

>>8853592
Are you insinuating that people who adopted children don't actually care about the future of the world their adopted children will inherit?

>>8853681
If the person who adopts children isn't sterile themselves, they have an agenda. Most of the time it's so they can be perceived as nice people who're charitable. These smug assholes shouldn't be allowed to vote.

There's a reason why there are no custody battles for adopted children. Neither parents want them.

>>8853418
Oh no. What have they done to you Bill?

>>8853703
Listen, friend. I get paid to science. And science isn't about physics, or chemistry. It isn't about Bunsen burners and will this float. It's about saying bitch and blowjob and accusing other people of sexual harassment. So I encourage you to back off, because you're making me feel uncomfortable right now.

>>8853561
To follow on from this is the modern example of carbon fibre. We used carbon fibre in a lot of things with only empirical data as the method of verifying it;

>build something out of cf
>test it
>try again

There's lots of people trying to create and fit models to carbon fibre in academia but most of them don't work and have stupid coefficients tagged on them to shoehorn them into a functional form.

I don't know much about this show, but bill nye used to have a kids show


This isn't being advertised as a children's show is it?

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>>8853418
>spectrum
*autistic screeching*

>no one posted this yet
Prepare for cringe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46h-LfNWPn8

>>8853828
So autistic brains shrink and change their shape?

>>8853855
>liberals making fun of someone because muh feels
>the sexually harrassing ice cream sluts
>turn vanilla into a fucking degenerate whore
lmao

>>8853855
The bad part about this is that they're all made of cream but all want to be different because they say so and refuse to acknowledge the fact that they are all cream regardless of their overlaying flavor. Good job Bill nye at making an awful FUCKING FOOD ANALOGY

>>8853418
science is not a social construct

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>>8853869
Their prefrontal cortex and hippocampus are smaller, so is the part of the brain responsible for balance and proprioception whatever it's called. Basically the only parts that are bigger are the visual spatial and sensory area. Actually I think there's more to it but Autism affects so much shit that's it's hard to tell and I really can't remember it all. Don't take my word for it. Here's another pic.

>>8853418
What the actual fuck? Is there a magnet link for all the episodes?

>>8853418
Why do you morons care if somebody wants to change their gender?

You know, i hate the average /pol/ bait threads but they have a point this time. Why in the fuck is this dude talking about gender?

>>8854047
Oh they can change their gender alright.... But don't expect us to play to their delusions.(or get weirder out by them and distancing them away from us cuz we don't want to associate with a mentally Ill/unhinged person)

>>8854067
Pop-sci is more politics than science.

I find it frustrating that he's discussing such hotly debated topics as though all scientists are in agreement about them. It's just blatantly misleading.

>>8853418
science is not a gender
or is it?

>>8854067
He's trying to stay relevant. Anyway,
Sex: male or female, that's it
Gender: male or female, that's it (transexuality is just having your brain wired as the opposite sex, special snowflakes on tumblr with their made up labels have nothing to do with this)
Cutting your dick off and wearing a dress: a mental illness

>>8854091

They can change their gender, but I'm not
going to be called transphobic for not
using their pronouns

>>8853895
>genious
lmao

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>>8854137
>the world revolves around me

>>8853822
This one isn't a kids show

>>8853496
They do actually often have neurological and hormonal similarities that contradict their assigned gender, but skinny people aren't fat. Bad analogy

>>8854132
your assertions are oversimplifying reality

>>8853698
that's just, like, your incredibly overly suspicious and twisted opinion, man

>>8854137
you're just kind of being a dick if you don't use someone's pronouns. If they pass, then it's kind of natural to use whatever new name they have. Consider it as a new nickname.
Unless they're getting really unnecessarily triggered about it or "misgendering" for calling them what they look like, or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun, I don't see the problem.

"The press today is an army with carefully organized weapons, the journalists its officers, the readers its soldiers. The reader neither knows nor is supposed to know the purposes for which he is used and the role he is to play."

"For the Age has itself become vulgar, and most people have no idea to what extent they are themselves tainted. The bad manners of all parliaments, the general tendency to connive at a rather shady business transaction if it promises to bring in money without work, jazz and Negro dances as the spiritual outlet in all circles of society, women painted like prostitutes, the efforts of writers to win popularity by ridiculing in their novels and plays the correctness of well-bred people, and the bad taste shown even by the nobility and old princely families in throwing off every kind of social restraint and time-honoured custom: all of these go to prove that it is now the vulgar mob that gives the tone."

-- Oswald Spengler, The Decline of the West

>>8854235
There are very few genuine trans people. Those born with both male and female organs. Bruce Jenner and people like him are mentally ill and need help. They have a body dysmorphic disorder that can't be treated because they have been turned into cause celebre at the moment. They will never become the other gender. They just deform themselves trying.

>>8854291
Hermaphrodite=/=transgender

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

>>8854124
I want to be a science white male

>>8854256
I think the second quote is from another of Spengler's books.
Probably the hour of decision.

>>8853597
He was made a tranny by a guy who's last name was money. Whadda ya think about that?

>>8853895
Sauce on pic?

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>>8854235
>Unless they're getting really unnecessarily triggered about it or "misgendering" for calling them what they look like

That's exactly what's happening, and being encouraged by SJW culture.

>or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun

Don't worry, that's coming.

I define my gender to be the collection of all genders which don't contain themselves.

>>8854067
It's being pushed more and more aggressively in universities, in the media, in politics. /pol/ just recognized its dangerous potential earlier than others.

>>8853519
The thing is that chromosome disorders are exceedingly rare. Bill is trying to say they're normal. They're not.

Sociology strays further and further from anything that can be regarded as science everyday.

>>8854350
Some politician was born a hermaphrodite and decided to become female. The media referred to her as the first transgender mayor of something. The terminology is decided by the group pushing the agenda.

>>8853519
You're listing genetic deadends as though they are revolutionary evolutions worthy of recognition beyond mild curiosity.

They're not. They're disorders that rarely permit reproduction and should not qualify as anything "normal". And I mean that in the most scientifically literate sense.

>>8853822
No. It's just being advertised as "scientific". Which it isn't.

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>>8854145
>>8854493
I know for sure it's pseudoscience but I like to post the pic because I think it's on to something sort of speak. I even have more from the same source.

>>8854659
Of course it's pseudoscience. It's psychology / neuro.

>>8853855
holy shit, no fucking way
keep saying how cool it is nye, djesus
the science of feelings people [applause]

>>8854291
cut off a perfectly working leg = mental illness
cut off a perfectly working dick = fits right here in the spectrum

>>8853548
>if it can't work then the engineer
must try to explain to this boss why he shouldn't be fired on the spot

>>8854659
could you please post a copy of that image that won't give me retinal cancer?

do you think Bill can engineer me a vaginer?

>>8853418
what happened to this guy? why did he shift into maximum overshill?

>>8854875
he was always a tool, he just found a new master

>>8853519
>these things are valid because there are people with genetical deficiencies
Might as well shit on people who assumes humans have 5 fingers in each hand because theres some genetic failure out there who don't.

There are 2 gender/sex, outside of that are genetical mutations that shouldn't have been considered at the first place.

If climate science or exploring the Universe was so important to Bill Nye, he wouldn't jeopardise its importance or validity by openly supporting stuff like this, EVEN if he believes it himself, EVEN if there is valid science behind it (does the show even show any proper science or is it all talking heads telling people what to think?). The average person will look at this and say "this Bill Nye fella is stupid as fuck, he must be wrong about all that climate change stuff too".

He's a marketing prop. A Kardashian for people who think they're too smart for the Kardashians.

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>>8854666
I firmly believe psychology has harmed science more than it did good, I just hope for the day that psychology is, well, grounded in science. Neuro isn't as bad but has it's problems too. AT least they're grounded in science, kinda. I have mental problems myself and because psychiatry is so shitty, I actually developed more mental issues later on because of these meds. I now don't take my medicine even though I'm prescribed because honestly I have traumatic situations thinking about what it did to me. I grew up taking amphetamines, then anxiety/sleep medication, then SSRI's, then seizure medication, then Anti-psychotics, then allergy medication (for Extra-pyramidal symptoms), it just keeps going on and on. I literally have around 7 or 8 mental disorders diagnosed and even my therapist was fucking appalled.
>>8854865
I can read it just fine, I think you literally need to get your eyes checked. Here's another pic.

>>8853418
Bill nye and nu-science are leftist cancer

>>8854235
>oversimplifying
Would you have a fuck ton class of people with each different mutative phenotypes?

Just because gender is the flavor of the week aspect of biology doesn't make it right to over elaborate them to each and every type of their derivatives.

>>8853895
>tfw autistic savant

Found out when writing my degree, I just can't do it. I get good score on maths but just cannot write.

>>8853418

he's just some actor who used to be an engineer

I'd be mad but he never really had my respect as a scientist just for making some videos that anybody could have made

It's probably a lost cause arguing this here since most of you are politically motivated but..

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
>Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) is a condition that results in the complete inability of the cell to respond to androgens. The unresponsiveness of the cell to the presence of androgenic hormones prevents the masculinization of male genitalia in the developing fetus, as well as the development of male secondary sexual characteristics at puberty, but does not significantly impair female genital or sexual development. As such, the insensitivity to androgens is only clinically significant when it occurs in genetic males (i.e. individuals with a Y chromosome, or more specifically, an SRY gene). All affected individuals are phenotypically female; they develop a normal female habitus, despite the presence of a Y chromosome

Most individuals fall somewhere on the two ends of the spectrum. Some don't. Calling them either male or female would be inaccurate since they fall outside of the probability clouds of normative males and females. Considering the effects of hormones on transsexuals they, too, fall somewhere in between.

>>8853496
A dysmorphic individual does not respond positively to their body being reshaped to the shape they desire. Transsexuals do.

>>8853512
1/2
"Untreated MtFs and FtMs who have an early onset of their gender dysphoria and are sexually oriented to persons of their natal sex show a distinctive brain morphology, reflecting a brain phenotype. These phenotypes are different from those of heterosexual males or females; the differences affect the right hemisphere and cortical structures underlying body perception."

>>8853512
>>8854939
2/2
"The genesis of these phenotypes might be caused by atypical effects of sex hormones or their metabolites in specific cortical regions of MtFs and FtMs. These effects of hormones on the cortex suggest the hypothesis that brain differences between homosexual MtFs and FtMs and male and female controls are due to differences in the development of the cortex; this hypothesis would imply that the thinning process undergone by some regions of the cortex is timed differently in each phenotype.

The review of the available data seems to support two existing hypotheses: (1) a brain-restricted intersexuality in homosexual MtFs and FtMs and (2) Blanchard’s insight on the existence of two brain phenotypes that differentiate “homosexual” and “nonhomosexual” MtFs."
A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism (Guillamon, A., Junque, C. & Gómez-Gil, E. Arch Sex Behav 2016)

Transsexuals, at least those of a certain variety, might be neurologically intersexed to a degree.

>>8853505
>referred for circumcision
FUCK.
THE JEWS LITERALLY DID THIS.

>>8855000
Protip: not actually the first case.

>>8854939
I'll need to go edit that wiki. But there is no "spectrum". You are a man or a woman. And if you want to pretend to be something else, then that is fine. But don't insist on everyone else playing along. The only people that possibly "trigger" anything close to being on an actual gender spectrum are a very very tiny percentage of an already tiny group. All the others are mental cases that need treatment. Not enablers feeding them attention and agitating their mental state. And all the surgery in the world won't change you from a man to a woman or vice versa unless you start with both already.

>>8855048
You need to learn how to read and accept scientific evidence Fritz.

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http://citizengo.org/en-us/39715-tell-national-geographic-gender-ideology-harms-children

96,675 people have signed. Help us reach 100,000 signatures.

On August 17, 2016, the American College of Pediatricians issued a statement saying “gender Ideology harms children,” and “urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex. Facts – not ideology – determine reality.” In their statement, they go on to say “a person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking.”

These statements are supported by three leading medical doctors in the field, including Paul McHugh, M.D., University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School and the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital.

The statement goes on to say "Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse."

>>8855048
This is transphobic.

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>>8854511
>Bill is trying to say they're normal.
[citation needed]
also, while abnormal karyotypes are quite rare, intersex conditions aren't limited to them. something like 1 in every 1500 births is intersex to some degree.

>>8854545
>>8854891
>They're disorders that rarely permit reproduction and should not qualify as anything "normal".
>Might as well shit on people who assumes humans have 5 fingers in each hand because theres some genetic failure out there who don't.
this issue is descriptive, not normative. why are you so hung up on what's "normal" or not?
albinism isn't "normal" either. nor are cervical ribs, horseshoe kidneys, situs inversus totalis, or polydactyly. all of those are fairly rare, and all can be deleterious to some degree. it doesn't mean they're not real. understand that except insofar as some of those conditions require some management, they're not bad, just different. someone with SIT might need to wear a medical bracelet, but they'll live perfectly normal lives otherwise. someone with cervical ribs might not even notice them. someone who's intersex will probably be sterile or subfertile, but might very well be fine otherwise.

sex (and gender for that matter) is bimodal, but not binary.
there are two main syndromes that most individuals fall into: male and female. but there are also some oddballs that don't fit into one or the other, usually with a little bit of both.

>>8855951
>American College of Pediatricians
is a meme hate group lead by fundies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians

>Paul McHugh
AKA the man who willfully misinterpreted research results by Cecilia Dhejne, who said as much in a public interview.

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>>8855048
>hurr these facts offend me so I'm gonna edit the article to get rid of them
lol snowflake
but seriously though, how do you reconcile your claim that everyone's EITHER a man OR a woman with the existence of people who literally have one testicle, one ovary, a penis, half a uterus, and some cells that are 46XX and some that are 46XY? are such people men or are they women? care to explain that?

>>8855951
>American College of Pediatricians
they're a group of whiners who started their own pediatrics organization because they got their panties in a twist over the American Academy of Pediatrics saying that gays can be good parents.
They've got 500 members or so, as compared to the ~60,000 members of the AAP, and they exist only as an advocacy group for their own brand of ideology; they don't actually do any real science or medicine.

>>8854939
>>8854952
this is basically correct

>>8854235
> or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun
Except that's a real issue in Canada right now.

>>8856007
>A fucking leaf

>>8855974
>>8855986
See >>8854902
Gender diasphora is a result of genetical deficiencies.
Why particularly over elaborate them to include each and every derivatives of these genetic permutations into the general definition when other genetic flaws in regards to anything beside gender are considered as disabilities?

What makes the flavor of the week aspect, that is gender, objectively different that it requires to be treated differently than other genetic defects?

People that are outside the 2 genders are disabled and should be treated so. Or at least other or similar genetic defects shouldn't be considered a disability for consistency.

>this issue is descriptive, not normative. why are you so hung up on what's "normal" or not?
Because that is the main and the most important issue that lots of things are being staked upon.
The arguments are not whether there exist oddballs or not. The argument is whether these gender oddballs requires to be considered different than other genetic oddballs or not.

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>>8855943
>>8855972
>>8855986
Chromosomes determine gender.
>hurr these facts offend me so I'm gonna edit the article to get rid of them
wikipedia in a nutshell
>but seriously though, how do you reconcile your claim that everyone's EITHER a man OR a woman with the existence of people who literally have one testicle, one ovary, a penis, half a uterus, and some cells that are 46XX and some that are 46XY? are such people men or are they women? care to explain that?

That's a tiny subset and more accurately called "hermaphrodites". Lumping them in with "muh feels" genders is deliberately misleading and a disservice to people with real medical issues.

R.I.P. science.

Who owns pronouns?
I say 'my' pronouns are the ones I choose, when composing a sentence.
SJW's lay claim to these ('my') pronouns by declaring that I must use other pronouns around them...
I think it needs to be pointed out, to SJW's, who owns which pronouns.

>>8856933
Noun is very patriarchal. The fact you even want to relate to pro-noun makes you verbiage-privileged. We communicate in grunts and clicks now.

>>8853496
>people who think they are another sex suffer from a body dysmorphia disorder. Same as skinny people who believe they are fat or vice versa
But that's wrong. Transexuals are not mistaken about the physical shape of their body, they just want to change it. These threads are like flat Earth threads or .999...=/=1 threads, the same points get brought up and refuted every time and then posted again in the next thread regardless.

>>8856947
>autistic finger-snapping!!!

>>8856786
>Gender diasphora is a result of genetical deficiencies.
not actually true. gender dysphoria seems to be proximally caused by hormonal fluctuations in utero. there are genetic components, but they have apparently very low penetrance and remain poorly understood.
>genetic flaws in regards to anything beside gender are considered as disabilities
not actually true either. never heard of heterozygote advantage?
>People that are outside the 2 genders are disabled and should be treated so.
why?
the only symptom they experience from being intersex is infertility, in a lot of cases. should we consider all infertile people to be disabled?

>>8856834
>That's a tiny subset and more accurately called "hermaphrodites".
so you admit that not EVERYONE's either a man or a woman. thanks.
how about a less dramatic condition than chimeric hermaphroditism? say, someone who has a micropenis, internal streak gonads, and an aplastic uterus? they're not a true hermaphrodite, but they certainly aren't entirely male or female.
>Lumping them in with "muh feels" genders is deliberately misleading and a disservice to people with real medical issues.
there is a problem with people invoking "muh feels", but there's a convincing body of research that there's an aspect of brain structure and development in biological sex; the brain is hardwired to expect a certain physiological state. a lot of genderqueer-identified people have some kind of mismatch or atypical condition in that regard.

>racists crying because our understanding and science keeps moving forward

Being forever 13 must suck a lot.

>>8857030
>hormonal fluctuations in utero
Was referring to the cases described in >>8855986
Also defects that are caused by abnormal hormonal fluctuations are still defects.

>heterozygote advantage
Which obviously doesn't include genetic flaws that encourages mutilating your genitals and be infertile.

>should infertile be disabled
Yes, ED is one case of infertile disability. Unless you are encouraging a society to limit their fertility, these things shouldn't be considered good or normal.

Also you still haven't explained why we didn't shame people who bigotedly assume that humans are bipedals, because there are obviously humans who are not.

>>8857030
>so you admit that not EVERYONE's either a man or a woman. thanks.
>buying into the strawman that MSM pushed that every gender science dissenter can't into genetic mutations
>micropenis, internal streak gonads, and an aplastic uterus
Physical defects, the longer people chose not to accept that, the harder everything going to be for everyone.

>a lot of genderqueer-identified people have some kind of mismatch or atypical condition in that regard
Sure, the argument is not that they exist, but how to deal with them.
Correctly labeling them as mentally ill and providing access to therapy for them so that they can be a productive member of society is the argument that MSM won't show you.

>>8853418
There is no "gender science"

You are either male or female, or hermaphrodite if you are really unlucky.

>>8854952
How am I to understand being "neurologically intersex"? Further, why should that be seen as anything besides a disorder?

>>8855986
So how would you prefer this labelled?
Male, female, and various assortment of mutations?

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>>8857066
>Was referring to the cases described in >>8855986
that's not what gender dysphoria is though...
>Which obviously doesn't include genetic flaws that encourages mutilating your genitals and be infertile.
I Don't Know What Heterozygote Advantage Is: The Post
>Unless you are encouraging a society to limit their fertility
this is unambiguously a good thing. we're K selectors, now more than ever.

>>8857083
whether or not those conditions are defective is beside the point. is such a person that I described truly male or female?
>Correctly labeling them as mentally ill and providing access to therapy for them so that they can be a productive member of society
this is exactly what transitioning is. doctors have tried medication and therapy to cure gender dysphoria, and they haven't been able to make it work; depression and suicidal ideation remain common. the best option at hand, as evidenced by decades of research and practice, is to make the physiology match the neurology rather than vice versa.
gender dysphoria/gender identity disorder is an illness; transitioning is the treatment.

>>8854501
Clever

>>8853418

>Can they reproduce?
>No?

Then it's mental illness.

>>8857488
>genetic reproduction is the only point of life
Kek. Child rearing, doing shit to better society for child production, etc. Don't count.

>>8854067
Yeah, I hate /pol/ as well but they're right, this Bill Nye shit is cringe as fuck

>>8857123
I'm not the person you're replying to but

>How am I to understand being "neurologically intersex"?

Where intersex people have genitals on the spectrum of male and female, neurologically intersex would be having the neurology that mismatches your outward sex.

>Further, why should that be seen as anything besides a disorder?

I mean it would be a developmental disorder.

>>8853855
I like how 'alternative' sexuality is portrayed as something straight people secretly want.
Yeah, I'm fucking dying to stick my dick in some dude's hairy asshole

>>8855000
When I was about to be born, the doctors and nurses asked my mom repeatedly if she wanted me circumcised. She repeatedly told them no and then went into labor. After I was born, my mom held me for a while before a nurse said she needed to hold me, then started to leave the room. When my mom asked where she was going, the nurse said "Oh, circumcision is easiest on newborns" at which point my mom flipped out and demanded that she hold onto me until she could take me home.
I was a few seconds away from being circumcised against the wishes of my parents because it was basically expected at the time.

>>8857625
nice blog dude

how do i unsubscribe?

>>8857643
This is one of a dozen shitposting threads on /sci/ right now, and my post was actually a protracted Jew joke

>>8857625
everyone who runs the world is circumcised. Enjoy being a sheep

>>8857674
thanks for the personal narrative, i really care

>>8853855
DEGENERACY

>>8853505
This shit has been a thing ancient times of even before eunuch's origins. You're a fucking idiot.

>>8854539
no, it's not. the terminology is determined by science, and is then made incorrect by your so-called media-groups.


Geez, for /sci/ this place has alot of people with terrible logic skills.

>>8853855
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Straight people are not secretly gay

>>8857339
I can buy into what you're saying, but I remain adamant in maintaining that there is male, female, and "other" to appease oddities as a result of genetic/physiological/mental disorders

>>8857805
But at that point you're just being a dick to mentally disabled people out of principle.

>>8857842
How so? By lumping them together with the others? Or by implying they're "others" in the first place?

>>8857558
To be fair, and I'm not defending Bill Nye, straight people could do with some self-evaluation occasionally. It's cool to not want to fuck a guy if you're a guy, but you shouldn't feel afraid of considering it, even if just as a curiosity thing.

>>8853895

>>>8853895

>Schizotypal personality disorder
>My biggest issue in life has always been lack of cognitive control leading to procrastination
>I just want to be in the dark imagining places and making up songs in my head
>I always feel disassociated with reality
Wew, lad.

>>8857853

You should be very afraid of trying gay sex as a straight male. Homos are disease ridden, and some even seek out to get disease as a fetish.

Transexualism is just a degeneration of the brain in which it develops wrong, I would be ashamed and not proud of having such malformation.

>>8857534
Ah, so basically "neurologically intersex" would mean just trans person generally. Just another way to say it.

Let me ask though, how are we to understand this mismatching? What exactly does a mismatching of your physicality and neurology look like? Phantom pains?

>>8857842
If you admit there mentally disabled, then why engage in their fantasy?
You wouldn't do that with a schizophrenic, would you?

>>8854148
Tell that to the people who are demanding the rest of the world should change for them and use their personal special pronouns.

>>8857852
By not just going "okay. Call yourself what you want."

>>8857975
Please read the full comment chain. There's no point in rehashing it all for you.

>>8857764
ya but everyone admitted Eunuchs were mutilated men
no one pretended they were women

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>>8853505
>Money was a prominent proponent of the "theory of Gender Neutrality"

>>8853418
/pol/ was screeching about these retards before it was cool

Watching "science" being pandered to the mentally ill left is depressing.

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>>8853418
His techno-dance and appeal to pathos say more than any peer reviewed and repeated control study could ever say.

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Ok so let's have a nice recap, featuring your resident expert.

There are two genders. There are two sexes. The expression of gender (essentially your phenotype of masculinity/femininity as defined by a range of genes but primarily XX and XY) was inextricable from your chromosomal makeup until recently with the advent of hormone supplements and genital deformation surgeries and whatnot, which gave rise to the notion that since it is malleable with technology, it must mean nothing to begin with. This is of course, false. Sex in humans is determined by the presence or absence of a Y chromosome. The gene products on the second X chromosome in women are downregulated throughout their lives, essentially leaving them with one X chromosome which determines their development, and so the genes of Y develop and create what a man is while the X genes are produced simultaneously, delineating the two sexes early in development.

What IS on a spectrum: masculinity and femininity. They have environmental factors and a range of genes not on the X/Y chromosomes determining them (eg amount of HGH helping to determine height/frame and so on).

What is NOT on a spectrum: sex. You either have a Y or you do not.

Aberrations of the male and female dichotomy are created due to unusual amounts or combinations of genes/chromosomes, and their phenotypes are based on the sex dichotomy itself. Something like Kleinfelter's is an XXY male who ends up being more feminine, for example. There is no third fourth or eight millionth gender; how many kinds of gamete exist? Right, two. If you lacked all external sexual features and any X/Y you'd be a female by default and by definition because you merely lack a Y chromosome.

I think the 'fairness' we have adopted as a society is what makes trans and sexuality all the more 'unwelcome'.

As to 'fairness' I refer to the way women and men are treated differently due to inherent differences between them.

a question
Is it wrong/bad/immoral/unnatural to wish to be the opposite sex?

If it is then why is it?

Being a man has perks you're taller,stronger,faster. If that's what you want then you'd want to be a man even as a woman. No?

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>>8858129
Sex is defined, yes. It is well defined, it's measurable, it's scientific. But is it useful?

Is there a better definition that is also scientific, measurable?

I got this picture from wikipedia. To me this person appears female. Yet it is not by the definition of sex.

In medicine/biology the chromosomal definition fits, but as I see it it's not useful for anything else.

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>>8858161
>But is it useful? Is there a better definition that is also scientific, measurable?

Yes, it would be the complete characterization of sex-determining genes and their phenotypes. For example, someone would be a strange version of intersex if they were XX with the SRY gene from an external Y pre-conception swapped to one of the Xs ; the presence of the SRY gene, 99.9999% of the time attached to a Y gene, is for the most part what determines if one is "male" or not. Yet SRY-X people are not fully male, so the Y chromosome functionally has a suite of genes which determine the ability for the typical XY and XX gametes to eventually recombine.

>I got this picture from wikipedia. To me this person appears female. Yet it is not by the definition of sex.

And the sex definition is useful because you wouldn't be able to mate with that person, and they would never have looked feminine without external technology acting on them. Like I said, the presence of other genes and environmental factors and hormonal aberrations put masculinity and femininity on somewhat of a spectrum. Though, it's really of a bimodal distribution under which the amounts of "gender expression" can change but the peaks represent the definitive presence or absence of a Y chromosome.

tl,dr you don't understand what you're talking about.

>>8858002
Hm, I don't think I ever recall an individual deciding what the wider scientific community should refer to him as.

I'm all for pronouns, I can respect that, but making/branding general classifications? No.

>>8857528
They're right about him being cringe? Dude, everyone thinks he's cringe:
http://gizmodo.com/bill-nye-spends-most-of-his-new-netflix-show-yelling-at-1794583045

>>8857769
this isn't /sci/ it's the daily /pol/ thread

>>8854235
You see, I have no problem using someone's pronouns when they pass, it's the people who say that they change genders every hour / people who say that they're non binary or some other 72 gender bullshit where i have the problem.
Those types of people are making a mockery of actual trans issues, and making people hostile towards trans people because those militant faggots are their main encounters with lgbt people.

I really can't give less of a fuck if you want to be a woman/man or want to fuck someone of either sex, but don't try to turn it into a trend. Pansexuality is just bisexuality for people who want to feel special, just like non binary is for people who want to feel special and have everyone devote more attention to them than anyone deserves.

Most of this isn't even responding to you but enjoy my rant

>>8857030
>should we treat all infertile people as disabled

Not able to do something you're supposed to = disabled
Not able to reproduce = disability

>>8853505
delet this!

>>8853505

>dick cutting kicked off the trans movement

Was pol right lads?

>>8854235
pronouns are not a nickname they are subverting the grammatical structure of my speech and putting me in a catch 22. even if i choose to do it and fuck up once i look like an asshole.

>>8858581
If you make a decent effort (assuming they're not a total dick), they really won't give you a hard time. I've called my FtM buddy a she a couple times by accident. He understands tho.

>>8858606
How forgiving of her

>>8858606
>>8858629

My MtF pal called me a Neanderthal and a biggot when I told him one cannot change gender just because one feels like it.

>>8853592
I don't understand your point. When you vote at elections, you don't vote "for the future of mankind". In the first place, you are probably just voting for a party in your local community or county. And at worst you are voting on a national level, but that's still not "mankind".
And a lot of political decisions are rather short-term that will affect things for the next 1 - 10 years. It's not like every voter is some 90 year old guy saying "ha i just voted for Shillary! enjoy getting run over by refugees, i'm going to die now!"
Most voters will have to live with the consequences of their votes themselves.

>>8853418

Okay. My view is simplistic. Gender is binary. There are males and females. Anything else feels like political control or worse.

I wouldn't stop an adult moron from getting gender reassignment surgery - in the US where I live I support people being idiots as long as they don't hurt anyone besides themselves. And if they complete it and want to switch bathrooms, that's cool too.

But fuck all the made-up genders or lack of them. And fuck Bill Nye for rejecting pure science in favor of politics. Fuckin insulting.

>>8856958
That doesn't refute the point though.
An anorexic will try to change their body because they think it's too fat; A transexual will try to change their body because they think it should be like the other gender.

>>8858709
>Gender is binary. There are males and females. Anything else feels like political control or worse.
Explain Thai femboys

>>8854939
>A dysmorphic individual does not respond positively to their body being reshaped to the shape they desire. Transsexuals do.

Suuuure. That's why the majority of trannies end up getting a drug addiction or killing themselves.

>>8858129
>The expression of gender (essentially your phenotype of masculinity/femininity as defined by a range of genes but primarily XX and XY) was inextricable from your chromosomal makeup until recently with the advent of hormone supplements and genital deformation surgeries and whatnot
No. No. NO. "Gender" is a linguistics term, attributed to nouns.
The whole thing was perverted in the 90s and the bullshit "gender theory" has been invented.
The majority of languages don't even have a word for "gender", because they treat the nouns differently.

>>8853418

Male
Female
Defect

Those are the only 3 options. There are no others.

>>8858828
defects are still tributary to male and female

My native language doesn't even have seperate words for "gender" and "sex". We just use the one word, and it is clear that we mean the biological sex. Anglos are so fucking stupid, I swear.

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how did we go from this...

>>8853548
>what the scientist thinks should work
in 99.9999% of engineering positions the scientists have already found out what does work. We're not seeing any crazy experimental bridges or skyscrapers being build because they "should work".

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>>8854235
>I cut my dick off and had it turned into a """vagina"""
>Consider it as a new nickname.

>>8854894
social psycology is trash and is not empirically sound.. espeically the most recent discoveries which includes gender studies..

but psychistry as taught in medical school, etc is fine..don't confound the too

bill nye is humiliating himself and destroying all his credibility in the eyes of the public. now everyone knows for sure hes just a political activist, whereas before they thought he was a "science d00d who just happens to be a liberal"

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>>8857339
>gender dysphoria/gender identity disorder is an illness; transitioning is the treatment.
Funny, must be the only psychological pathology where giving in to the delusions and mutilating the body is advertised as the cure, rather than changing the mind.

Now the normalization of this insanity has reached the point where kids as young as 3 are being told to "transition", forever fucking up their normal childhood development, even though studies show that only 12% of children with gender dysphoria report still having it as adults.

12%
TWELVE FUCKING PERCENT
FOR 88% OF CHILDREN IT GOES AWAY
NATURALLY
AND THESE PEOPLE WANT TO GET THEM INTO HORMONE BLOCKERS AND FUCK UP THEIR CHILDHOODS FOREVER BECAUSE LITTLE JANE HAD A PHASE WHERE SHE LIKED GI JOE AND LITTLE TIMMY HAD A PHASE WHERE HE LIKED BARBIE

Just to put the insanity you are supporting in perspective.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90229789
>I've seen many kids over the years present with all the indicators of GID, and in terms of my quantitative measures they're very extreme. But the follow-up studies I've done, and others too, show [that] a substantial majority of kids seen for GID in childhood show desistance — that is, when they're older they don't want to be the other sex. We just published a study of 25 girls we first saw in childhood and found that only 12 percent seem to have persistent gender dysphoria when they're older. We find similar rates of persistence in boys.

>>8854235
Pronouns are not nicknames. It is perversion of the language. And perversion of the language is the perversion of the thought.

There are 2 sexes and you shouldn't reinforce mentally ill people in their delusions.

>>8855951
too bad American college of pediactrians is a fringe group of pediatricians who are mostly not treated seriously

>>8858910
what are you talking about? theyre highly respected and its the perverse transsexual enablers who are fringe and arent treated seriously.

>>8858161
>all these subjective concepts
>in anyway scientific
Fuck off brainlet. Useful means fuck all. Uesful is applied, uesful is something that depends upon so many things that you can't define it from an emperical view.
Science is a method telling you what is based upon empericsim and the scientific method, not what you want things to be. You want to fuck a many who thinks he's a girl, go right ahead. But don't expect science to lie about the truth and say that it's a girl when it's not

>>8853418
Are there any laws of gender science?

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>>8857805
there is male, female, and "other" and anyone who complains about being part of the "other" is just showing their xenophobia. nothing inherently wrong with being ***different***
sex isn't binary, but it sure as fuck is bimodal.

>>8857952
>I would feel this way if my brain was wired differently
>I know this because I'd be the same person with the same personality and the same perspective even if my neurology were drastically different
fascinating narrative, compadre

>>8858129
>What is NOT on a spectrum: sex. You either have a Y or you do not.
butthatswrongyoufuckingretard.jpg
some people are 46XY but have androgen insensitivity (meaning they're physiologically female) or have a knockout version of some gene involved in masculinization. even if they have a functional copy of SRY, there can be breaks in signalling that result in a mix of male and female characteristics.
why are all the people claiming there's only MALE or FEMALE so ignorant of how sex determination works in mammals?

reminder: for purposes of biology, the definition of "male" is "produces comparatively many comparatively small gametes" and the definition of "female" is "produces comparatively few comparatively large gametes"

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>>8858417
oh okay, is being a kissless beta a disability then?
by your logic, people who can't taste phenylthiocarbamide are disabled (since being able to perceive bitter tastes is important in avoiding poisoning).

>>8858896
people who try to have toddlers transition are nuts, yes.
but hormone blockers aren't a life ruining event like you claim. the whole point of them is to delay puberty a little bit to see if the kid really is wired to be trans, or if it's just a quirk/phase. if they ARE trans, it allows them to receive more permanent treatment before going through puberty (makes transitioning easier on them). and if they're not trans, they can go off the hormone blockers with minimal harm done; their balls might drop a year or two later, but they'll develop normally.

>>8859058
>they'll develop normally
I have doubts

>>8859058
>and if they're not trans, they can go off the hormone blockers with minimal harm done; their balls might drop a year or two later, but they'll develop normally.
They can't be NOT-trans, you see, if a per-puberty boy gets female hormones in his system and will be taught to act feminine on top of that, he will stay that way, because he won't know any better.
Then his heart will give up in his late 20s from the hormone bombardment. Notice how only white children are submitted to these "transitions". It's just another form of the white genocide.

>>8853869
The cc measurements increase left to right dumbass

Bigger brain is not always better though

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>>8859096
>a per-puberty boy gets female hormones in his system
you seem to be confused as to what hormone blockers are. they don't feminize someone who's male, or masculinize someone who's female; literally how they work is they BLOCK HORMONES, so a female kid doesn't grow tits and start menstruating, and a male kid's voice doesn't change and his balls don't drop.
>white genocide
oh, that's why your post reads like it was written by a complete moron; it actually WAS.

>>8859116
>you seem to be confused as to what hormone blockers are.
Nope, you do.

> they don't feminize someone who's male, or masculinize someone who's female
Yes, they actually do. The way they do it, they block testosterone production in males or estrogen in females, which only leaves the opposite hormone production.

>oh, that's why your post reads like it was written by a complete moron
White genocide is very real I see it every day.
According to UN the replacement of indigenous population, imposing measures aimed at prevention of births inside a group and deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its destruction is genocide.
Right now this is exactly what is happening in my European country, of which I am an indigenous inhabitant
.Right now I am experiencing genocide, according to UN.

>>8859130
i want pol to leave

>>8859162
Is that the whole argument you have?

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>disagreeing with one of the greatest minds in the world
LOL stay mad you science deniers.

>>8853505
>Colapinto

In portuguese, it literally means GlueDick

>>8859048
>some people are 46XY but have androgen insensitivity (meaning they're physiologically female) or have a knockout version of some gene involved in masculinization. even if they have a functional copy of SRY, there can be breaks in signalling that result in a mix of male and female characteristics.
>why are all the people claiming there's only MALE or FEMALE so ignorant of how sex determination works in mammals?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome#Epidemiology

>Estimates for the incidence of androgen insensitivity syndrome are based on a relatively small population size, thus are known to be imprecise.[1] CAIS is estimated to occur in one of every 20,400 46,XY births.[100] A nationwide survey in the Netherlands based on patients with genetic confirmation of the diagnosis estimates that the minimal incidence of CAIS is one in 99,000.[63] >The incidence of PAIS is estimated to be one in 130,000.[101] Due to its subtle presentation, MAIS is not typically investigated except in the case of male infertility,[83] thus its true prevalence is unknown.[2]

Taking the figure with the highest incidence (1 in every 20,400 XY births), that's 170000 cases worldwide (estimating 3.5 billion XY population, actually lower than that), or 0.0049%

It happens? Sure. It warrants creating a spectrum to explain it? Nope. It's a syndrome, an issue. If someone is born with only one leg you don't claim that there's a spectrum of limbs. In fact, I just searched the occurrence of congenital amputation (the technical term for being born without a limb or part of it, and it happens, at most, 1 in each 2000 births, one in each 15000 at most (depending on the cause). Would you say that there's a spectrum of legs?

>>8854511
The word "normal" carries normative baggage.

>>8854545
And you're apparently a eugenicist social Darwinist Nazi. Go back to /pol/

>>8854891
I actually understand this a little. I'm very liberal, feminist, and social justice warrior, and even I have a hard time being upset at someone who assumes that a man has a penis. However, I have no tolerance for someone who is going to be purposefully malicious an antagonistic towards a trans person.

>>8855986
>are such people men or are they women?

They are mutant chimeric freaks who devoured their fraternal twin in utero when they were a ball of cells. It's a man and a woman because it's a freakish combination of two people that resulted by pure chance.

>>8859298
>I'm very liberal, feminist, and social justice warrior
I knew your nickname was an ironic one

why does this transgender push feel like back brace, cpap and diabetic testing supplies? is there money to be made off of transgender medications and supplies?

>>8853592
Social Darwinist / eugenicist / Nazi.

>>8853597
An actual neo-Nazi.

>>8853879
Science is totally a social construct. What else could it possibly be? Science is a cultural act, that has been refined and passed down through many generations.

Of course, science also leads to truth about our shared reality, and the only methods that lead to truth about our shared reality are the methods that follow the basic principles and values of science.

>>8854091
Why are you so hateful? Why can't you play along? Are you similarly hateful against gays? You just seem like a very hateful person. Or a Social Darwinist / eugenicist / Nazi.

>>8854092
> as though all scientists are in agreement about them
Protip: They are.

>>8854137
Yes, you are going to be called transphobic, and you deserve it. You're just being an asshole for no other reason than to be an asshole. You're not even meeting the basic levels of human decency. Part of being a decent human being is taking some amount of effort to make others feel comfortable. It's like not purposefully saying someone's favorite band is shit. Compassion, empathy, and basic human decency.

>>8854498
>>or there's the threat of legal punishment for not calling them their preferred pronoun
Oh please. Not in the US. First amendment and all.

For other shitholes countries, don't know, and don't care right now. They should adopt the same legal free speech standard as the US.

>>8854803
That's borderline asinine. So, people who shave their hair or permanently remove unwanted hair are insane? Where is this line that you're going to draw?

>>8859313
>blames white people for jews crimes
SJW status : confirmed
fuck off back to >>>/r/eddit

>>8859313
Your favorite band is shit, and your tastes are utter garbage.

News
Jan 3 2015, 5:43 pm ET
Sex Reassignment Surgery at 74: Medicare Win Opens Door for Transgender Seniors

by Miranda Leitsinger

Home2016IdeasGovernment & Politics

Home medical equipment suppliers dreading more Medicare reimbursement cuts
Biz News
by Ben Stanley

July 25, 2016, 1:00 AM

Medicare covers medically necessary hormone therapy.
Medicare also covers medically necessary hormone therapy for transgender people. These medications are part of Medicare Part D prescription drug plan formularies (lists of covered medications) and should be covered when prescribed. Sometimes coverage may be initially wrongly refused due to an apparent inconsistency of the hormones with a gender marker in a person's records. Nevertheless, Medicare beneficiaries have a right to access prescription drugs that are appropriate to their medical needs.

>>8859298
>purposefully malicious an antagonistic
Well you're not going to achieve anything if you are quick to assign intention to your dissenter.
If you don't even consider the possibility that the person you're arguing against have intentions other than silly evil ones, then you're just being arrogant.

it's all a marketing ploy presented as a social justice issue.

>>8858901
But many perversions are fun. You sound super sex-negative. Stop that. Don't be sex negative. Be welcoming of what makes other people happy.

>>8859096
>if a per-puberty boy gets female hormones in his system and will be taught to act feminine on top of that, he will stay that way, because he won't know any better.
Fuck you for enforcing bullshit gender norms.

> white genocide.

Goddammned Nazis. Die in a fire already. You lost the war 70 years ago.

>>8859336
>
Well you're not going to achieve anything if you are quick to assign intention to your dissenter.
I didn't assume it. You admitted it.

And yes I will achieve change. The only way that this sort of social change is accomplished is by making a ruckus, and by making fucks like you feel uncomfortable. See Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Letter From A Birmingham Jail".

who cares if confused children are issued life changing medications as long a pharmaceutical companies make money of of government regulations.

>>8859345
why would you call passionate heterosexual sex, sex-negative
>I'm a SJWtard
oh, right.

>>8859313
Not anyone you quoted, but

>Yes, you are going to be called transphobic, and you deserve it. You're just being an asshole for no other reason than to be an asshole

I can barely remember people's names, you want me to remember who wants to be called zhir, tche, xaqua or some shit? Sorry, I won't learn a whole new vocabulary because of your feelings.

You might even say that there are very few people who do this, but that's NOW. Even if I could remember each person's pronouns at the moment, wait until it's common for each person to choose pronouns and for me to be socially shunned because I can't remember them.

>It's like not purposefully saying someone's favorite band is shit.
No, it isn't. Transphobia is not being an asshole to trans people, dipshit. It's an actual hatred, disgust of trans people. If I don't use their pronouns it doesn't mean that I'm transphobic. Asshole? Maybe.

Also,

> "I'm very liberal, feminist, and social justice warrior"
>calls people "Social Darwinist / eugenicist/ Nazi / neo nazi " for whatever
checks out

>>8859313
>some amount of effort to make others feel comfortable
I'm won't be going out of my way to protect some random guy's feelings. And neither did you, since you're drawing negative strawmann from random posters whose crime was just wrongthink apparently.

I'll defend and protect the feelings of people who I actually care, not some random guys wearing shitty drags that guilt trip other people for disagreeing with them.

U.S. | Fri Jan 29, 2016 | 6:05pm EST
UnitedHealth Medicare plan must cover U.S. sex reassignment surgery

By Brendan Pierson

>>8859356
> I can barely remember people's names, you want me to remember who wants to be called zhir, tche, xaqua or some shit? Sorry, I won't learn a whole new vocabulary because of your feelings.
> You might even say that there are very few people who do this, but that's NOW. Even if I could remember each person's pronouns at the moment, wait until it's common for each person to choose pronouns and for me to be socially shunned because I can't remember them.

I'm pretty sure I covered in that post, or another post, that there's a difference between doing it by accident, and doing it maliciously.

>>8859359
Not "wrongthink", wrong action. For my purposes here, I don't care what you think. I care how you act. And you just said that you would act badly. You just said that you would show no empathy nor compassion to other people, and you even suggested that you would show outright malice to other people. That is your metaphorical "crime" for which you should be socially punished. In short, the crime of being an asshat.

Medicare will consider covering sex change operations
By Virgil Dickson | December 4, 2015
The CMS is considering whether Medicare should pay for sex change operations.

The agency is also considering paying for treatment to treat gender dysphoria, which describes individuals who experience significant discontent with their biological sex or birth gender, according to a notice released Thursday night.

>>8853418 Fu** this Sh**
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycVkZiHZUYE&t=0s

>>8859345
>I didn't assume it. You admitted it
Quote me on that you filthy liar. Where in my posts have I had malicious intentions.

>And yes I will achieve change
And yes you have, the reason Trump is president right now is a direct result of these foolish acts of randomly assigning intentions to your dissenters.
What kind of genius actually believes that shutting down the slightest opposition is a good way to make political allies and doesn't make you look like a shitty purist.

transgender issues are a marketing ploy presented as a social justice

Things that are real:
>Most people are genetically and phenotypically male or female
>A small fraction of people possess intersex mutations, but most identify with their sexual phenotype
>Another small fraction of people have irregular neurological development which results in their brain development being closer to the opposite sexual phenotype. These people have gender dysphoria.

Things that are not fucking real:
>Genderfluidity
>The other 34 genders tumblr made up and their corresponding pronouns made of random letters
>Bullshit genders revolving around bullshit like Angels, Stars, Unicorns and Music
>Just about everything else that's tumblr's way of saying "I hate my dad"

>>8859366
>that you would show outright malice to other people
That's you not me man.
Honestly if anyone is being hateful here, it is you.
Calm down dude, don't let a shitty internet argument get you.

>>8859373
I'm not playing this game. I'm not going to accept your ridiculous standard when your ill intentions are plain as day. See:
> genetical mutations that shouldn't have been considered at the first place

Pharmaceuticals

Depending on the laws of health coverage, certain pharmaceutical and biotech companies could profit from sales spikes. Transitions often require hormone replacement therapies that include testosterone or estrogen, HRT to stunt body hair growth, progesterone to encourage breast development and cyproterone acetate to reduce testosterone levels.

>>8859382
Most people with intersex conditions identify with their gender phenotype.

A vast majority of people with intersex conditions don't even learn about their condition until they see a doctor about a symptom of their condition, such as infertility.

why should pharma pay for legal hurdles to get eh government to pay for their drugs when "social justice" will pave the way for them

>>8859382
And how is that malicious?
Would I also be malicious if I had said that humans are not bipedals because there are people with tetra-amelia syndrome?

You're just being arrogant that you won't even consider the possibility that there are people who disagree with you with good faith.

>>8859389
Yes, and?

>>8859395
That was an advertisement that you will go out of your way to not use their pronouns of preference, which is malicious.

> You're just being arrogant that you won't even consider the possibility that there are people who disagree with you with good faith.

You may think that it's in good faith, but you fooled yourself. That's a lie. You cannot be "in good faith" while also choosing to act in a way that hurts the feelings of other people for no good reason, and to support your own bigotries.

>>8859400
i identify as an an attack helicopter. my pronouns are BLAM! (must be shouted) and fwip fwip fwip fwip (must use all four fwips). i requite jp5 and i grade engine oil in all res facilities thai i might use the the future.

>>8859380
Agreed

What pisses me off about trans issues:

- people pushing sex hormone therapy to children (not hormone blockers)
- acceptance of transgenderism as something that should be accepted, and not treated.

What I mean by the latter is that instead of trying to treat the root cause of the problem, that is, in a MtF trans, the "female-like brain". Instead of hacking the penis off or transforming it into an abomination of a vagina, why not push research into drugs that actually "masculinize" the brain?

I know that CURRENT acceptance therapy for trans is ineffective, but what about the future?

Just imagine, you feel disconnected from your body, which is male, while you think of yourself as a female. You take some drugs, bam, you feel comfortable about your body. No surgery necessary.

I don't mean to ban the current solutions to the problem (like sex reassignment surgery), but by treating it as the only possible solution makes it impossible to get research going in the direction I talked about.

>>8859400
>That was an advertisement
Well you're just putting words in my mouth now.

>not use their pronouns of preference, which is malicious
You obviously have some warped moral code if you take that it would be malicious not to do whatever bullshit some random guy told you to do.
And even more warped when you don't even consider that there are people who actually have a different moral code than you.
You are basically the definition of bigotry.

I identify as a scientist. i demand the government provide me with pipettes in order to maintain my daily activities

>>8859419
>You obviously have some warped moral code if you take that it would be malicious not to do whatever bullshit some random guy told you to do.
I didn't say that. I said that you advertised that you will refuse to perform basic cultural courtesies, which you know in advance will cause offense and hurt feelings, for no purpose, except to fulfill your particular bigotries and disapproval of how other people live their life.

It's like a black person asking to not be called "boy" (which is often used as a racial epitaph). I'll quickly forgive accidental uses, because there is no malicious intent, but if someone goes out of their way to do so, then there's malicious intent.

Again, courtesy, politeness, and basic human decency. You could replace "political correctness" in almost every context with the phrase "treating people with respect", and you would have the same meaning.

>>8859420
Well, I identify as a solution to the phi wave equation. My pronouns are the boundaries which result in said solution. To zero me is to be a bigot, a phiphobic.

>>8859427
fuck you, please forgive me. the intent of that comment was non malicious.

>>8859433
I don't believe you. I believe that you are lying, or being facetious in order to make a (wrongheaded) point.

>>8859434
>the intent of that comment was non malicious.
I don't believe you. I believe that you are lying, or being facetious in order to make a (wrongheaded) point.

>>8859427
There again you interpreting words I don't make.
I get that if you parse what I said to your warped moral code, it would seem malicious.
But it just seems you keep failing to understand that not everyone have the same moral codes as you.

>>8859345
I think you got lost here, this is a science board.

>>8859437
how can you be sure the intent of my intent? i submit i presented it as thought provoking rather than malicious.

>>8859440
And yet, I see a /pol/ thread here. As long as it's here, I'll correct the moral misconceptions that I see.

>>8859443
Come on, I already suggested that as a possibility.
> or being facetious in order to make a (wrongheaded) point.
Read man.

>>8859437
>I don't believe you. I believe that you are lying, or being facetious in order to make a (wrongheaded) point.
fortunately for me, your belief, or lack thereof, does not affect my waveform

fucking phiphobics. I bet you are a particlist too. I heard it before, you know? "You can't be a wave, you are collection of particles!"

>>8859163
I don't see white people getting bombed and shot to death every day in the streets. I see it happen to people that are not white though. That's my argument you stupid stupid /pol/tard

>>8859445
i find "wrongheaded" offensive. its not my fault my faculties are right lobed.

>>8859448
What third world shithole do you live in?

In before it's Chicago or Detroit.

>>8859453
denmark

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>>8858819
Right, and the "gender theory" shit was invented because we started being able to invert dicks and pump people full of estrogen, like I said

>>8859048
Again, aberrations such as that are just that: aberrations. That person looks as though they had been a typically-developing female due to a fuckup in another gene, but is male because they have a Y chromosome.

Like I wouldn't say that red blood cells exist on a spectrum and you can't really say what a red blood cell is and what the genes are supposed to code for because someone ends up with a SNP causing sickle cell. Or thalassemia even! Surely there must be millions if not billions of kinds of red blood cells that would all function happily and equally if only BIGOTS like you would STOP OPPRESSING THEM.

>reminder: for purposes of biology, the definition of "male" is "produces comparatively many comparatively small gametes" and the definition of "female" is "produces comparatively few comparatively large gametes"

Okay genius, what kind of gametes does an AIS person produce with their XY chromosomes and completely female appearance (if its a "complete" case)?

>>8859463
Denmark has people who aren't white?

Are they coming in from Sweden? Are they bringing in Swedish grenades too?

>>8859453
>Chicago

Ugh, this meme is so retarded. It's ONE general area of Chicago that 99% of the murders are occurring in - and it's all nigger on nigger shit. The rest of the city is amazing.

>>8859471
This board is for discussions of science. If you are motivated by artificial moral values, hatred and disregard for science, please leave and be retarded in another board. Or better yet, enlist in your country's army so you can kill people that aren't white. It's what you want isn't it?
Don't redpill us, we have too many IQ points to be swayed by your cheap tricks.

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>>8859130
>The way they do it, they block testosterone production in males or estrogen in females, which only leaves the opposite hormone production.
Okay you actual retard, you might want to do a little bit of reading. Hormone blockers (like leuprorelin) used to delay puberty downregulate the production of both estrogens AND androgens; you can actually use the same drug to delay puberty in male and female children.
>https://link.springer.com/article/10.2165/00003495-199448060-00008
A lot of these drugs have actually been used for decades to treat reproductive cancers and precocious puberty, long before they were used for possibly-trans adolescents.

>hurr durr white genocide
look, you immense faggot, I'm Jewish. right now, exogamy is quite common among my people in America; I myself am engaged to a shiksa. but none of us think that Jewish culture is endangered because of Jews having kids with Gentiles.
this is for two reasons. one, we're not a bunch of insecure cucks who think our bloodline/culture is recessive and will be overcome by that of people we marry. two, we've actually experienced genocide in the past century, so we're a little more cautious about calling every little last thing that annoys us genocide.
if you're pissed off your sister brought home an Algerian, you can pull up your big girl panties and just deal with it. but stormniggers don't seem to be capable of such a thing; instead they'd rather whine incessantly about how they're so put-upon.

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>>8859380
this.
there's actually a war over on tumblr between the "truscum" (actual trans people) and the "trucutes" (people who think you can be trans without having any sort of gender dysphoria).

>>8859345
>tripcode
>unironicslly believing in the brainwash
>Reddit spacing

clearly lost.

What if you're a dude and you got scrawny arms and can't get /fit/ no matter how much you lift (100 push-ups a day for a whole year and absolutely 0 improvement). Would that dude be one of them transgender queers or just a weak dude by nature somehow.

>>8859475
Wow, for someone who doesn't have a hatred and disregard for science, you sure do love espousing bullshit without facts or evidence to back it up.

>>8859513
A weak dude who needs to be eating more protein.

Also
>Just 100 pushups a day

Oats and squats, skelebro.

Also get some dumbbells at least and do some actual weight training.

>>8859513
>100 push-ups a day for a whole year and absolutely 0 improvement
>working one muscle group with the same weight and the same reps in the same position and wondering why nothing is happening

kill yourself.

Gender disphoria is obviously a real condition, but is letting the patient live his delusions a correct way to treat it?

I think everybody heard about the case of Chloe-Jennings White, a woman that want doctors to sever her spine so she could be handicapped for real.

I find it disturbing this is the only thing we can do.

>>8859536
For children, no one is suggesting that we led the child decide on a whim. In the real world, children have to undergo extensive counseling and psychological "investigation" before permanent changes are made.

For informed consenting adults, I generally subscribe to the harm principle: let them do what they want, as long as they don't harm others. I am also especially loathe to say that someone is legally insane and incompetent. I know too much about the history of that, and I am very, very scared of abuses that can happen against small minorities, i.e. gay people, but definitely more than that.

>>8859536
We have a tendency to find a placebo policy and just rely on that, rather than find an actual solution.

As long as everyone feels good, nobody cares that nothing is solved.

>>8858930
not him, but they are a fringe group of 500 members that defected from the AAP in 2012 over gay parent adoption that AAP was in favor of. Also, they aren't against circumcision except when medically necessary so it's it's not like they aren't perverse.

>>8859513
You need to eat big to get big. This applies to grils, too. If you don't get you're protons and neutrons, you're going to be a skele.

>>8854875
Debating Ken Ham drove him off the deep end

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resident lefty here to explain things for you lot

gender is a social construct, this is true. Observe that what it means to be feminine now and what sort of actions are expected of a girl in the 21st century are radically different than the expected actions and values of a girl in the 1700s. Men in Greek society used to have sex with other dudes as a way of displaying their masculinity and dominance, however in today's society (up until very very recently i suppose) all gay sex acts of any sort were seen as unmanly.

What this means is that, the idea of "femininity" and "masculinity" is, as history shows, a social conception which is subject to change as a society changes.

That being said, at present day in american society there are only 2 genders. This is because the majority of the society only agrees that two exist (i.e. masculine and feminine). Because gender is a social construct, it requires the majority (or at the very least a significant amount) of society to agree that your gender exists. The people you see on the fringe side of tumblr declaring third genders can be ignored. But, perhaps in the future, non binary genders can also exist.

So yes, gender is a social construct that is distinct from biological sex. And at the current time in American society there are only two.

>>8858256
>Instead, we watched for an excruciating five minutes as Nye pitted Jacobson against another of his round table guests, energy and environment reporter Richard Martin, to explain at a ten-year-old level why Martin is like, totally wrong and dumb for thinking nuclear power should be part of our energy future, too. The entire exchange was apparently intended to bolster the (not exactly scientific) viewpoint Nye interjected throughout the segment, that “nobody wants nuclear power.”

Bill Nye hates nuclear?

wtf I hate Bill Nye now

>>8859619
Wait. Jacobson? As in Mark Jacobson from Stanford? Guy is a fucking tool. He's a shameless liar and fraud for the greeners.

Fuck that guy. And fuck Bill Nye too.

>>8859619
>The entire exchange was apparently intended to bolster the (not exactly scientific) viewpoint Nye interjected throughout the segment, that “nobody wants nuclear power.”

This is literally a true statement though. The public does not like nuclear, even though its safe and clean relative to other things.

What is the issue with this?

>>8859639
I'm probably biased because I'm surrounded by stemfags who are pro-nuclear, whether they're in nuclear engineering or not.

but the main problem is
>explain at a ten-year-old level why Martin is like, totally wrong and dumb for thinking nuclear power should be part of our energy future

saying it's politically unfavorable may be true but it's ludicrous for an entire panel to be badgering that we should drop nuclear

>>8859644
The whole panel is not badgering nuclear. One of the members points out that 25% of our electricity is produced by nuclear currently.

There are a lot of other valid issues with his show but this simply isnt one of them.

>>8859665
Dude. Mark Jacobson is a known fraud and liar for the greens. The guy should not be given a platform, much less as a purported trustworthy expert. Bring him on only as a crank, in order to make fun of him, and point out his gross dishonesty.

>>8859668
>crank
Actually, not crank. He's probably a paid shill, like actually a paid shill. That's the most likely explanation IMHO for his ridiculous lies.

Gender is a constructed series of roles probably growing out of how the different sexes needed to act in a tribal setting. Given that in a hunter-gatherer tribe a female often has a baby on her hip to feed it and therefor cannot really hunt, she is typically given the role of gathering food and herbs for the tribe. There are other more specific examples of the way females and males must live differently in such tribes, due to their psyho/physiological differences and the fact that females are the ones that must give birth. Gender roles, such as they are, likely sprang from this natural, near-animalistic system. Gender exists in the same way money exists. It's a very useful humanwide fabrication for large societies, an abstraction of something culturally important- with money, it is trade value. With gender, it is one's societal role.

>>8859614
You're conflating gender with gender roles and gender stereotypes.

>>8859670
Fair enough. I dont really know anything about him so I cant speak on his credentials.

I just had issue with the other poster saying the whole panel is badgering nuclear for the sake of it.

Bill brought up legitimate points, some were sourced by another panelist. Another panelist said nuclear is an alternative. And the last one (the girl) didnt say anything. He was just misrepresenting the truth.

>>8859685
Gender is literally the sum of gender roles and gender stereotypes. How could it not be? What do you think it is describing then?

>>8859670
I cannot find a good source offhand, but the short version is that he wrote a Scientific American popsci article, where he dropped "nuclear power produces 25x the CO2 emissions of coal".

When one looks through his peer reviewed papers, one finds that this actually includes a shitton of CO2 emissions from coal. Why? Because his original paper was focused on how much can we do in a 5 or 10 year timeframe. However, he drops this context, and the Scientific American article implies that this is intrinsic to nuclear power in a steady state. That's grossly dishonest.

And then he tops himself by saying that there will be a nuclear war about every 30 years of a particular scale, and estimates the CO2 emissions from BURNING CITIES. And he includes that in the column for CO2 emissions for nuclear power. I shit you not.

Fuck him. Anyone who actually cites him is a liar or incompetent.

>>8859670
>>8859689
I wrote about this elsewhere, with links. Here you go.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2017/01/12/another-sign-of-doom-the-climate-change-denial-of-rex-tillerson/
Blog comment #53, the last one.

>>8859693
Ok. And now I am going to bed. Fucking work. Sigh. They want me in at normal work hours.

>>8859695
One last thing: Whenever someone cites Jacobson's 100% renewable plan as evidence that renewables are cheaper than current fossil fuels, know this: When you look at his paper, it's a gigantic piece of bullshit, appealing to ridiculous load shifting which cannot happen, and appealing to ridiculous technologies like seasonal storage of energy, and even then his final solution is - by his own claims - something like 5x higher money-cost than the current system. He says it's "cheaper", because he converts the externalities of mundane pollution of fossil fuels and the costs of global warming into a money cost and counts that - which is a reasonable thing to do, but you have to make that transparent and clear, and it's definitely not clear if you just drop "it's cheaper than fossil fuels".

Goddamn that fucker. There's few people that I hate more than him.

>>8854910
I can write like a monster yet need to study and practice maths with great repetition to succeed above average.

Shoot me

Violence would sort this.

>>8859687
not the anon you replied to, but it is the sum of behavioural traits derived from one's biological sex. which is extremely hard to define and if Bill is right about one thing, it's that it is a large spectrum.

What he's wrong about, along with the new-left, is that they negate the fact that biological sex informs behaviour to the extent to which it is favourable to categorize behaviour patterns according to biological sex. This new breed of lefties should fight against rigid gender roles and stereotypes, rather than making up new identities and denying biological input.

>>8858751
Should be != Is.
A transsexual changes their body with the permission and recommendation of a professional psychiatrist because it's far easier to make the sex mostly match the gender than to make the gender mostly match the sex.

>>8858828
>has never taken a biology class in his life
>doesn't understand that gender and sex are two related but different things

>>8858857
>anglos are so fucking stupid
Posted using Anglo technology on the Anglo Internet. ;)

>>8858859
Science corrects fuck ups over time. That's why we don't demand that the Earth is still flat even though scientists used to say so.

>>8859058
>hormone blockers aren't a life ruining event like you claim
It's not just the hormone blockers but the entire first 16 years of his early life dressed as the opposite sex, conditioned to think like the opposite sex, having to use bathrooms of the opposite sex, identifying with a name of the opposite sex, and basically having every semblance of a normal childhood destroyed.

>delay puberty a little bit to see if the kid really is wired to be trans, or if it's just a quirk/phase.
Delaying puberty fucks up the body in many ways including growth hormones, sex characteristics, sexuality, etc.

No, for 88% of kids that experience gender dysphoria it goes away. For an adult to push them into a life-changing decision like that is totally fucked up. Children get validation from adults, all you are doing is spreading the mental condition to kids that would most likely grow as normal well-adjusted adults otherwise.

This is all about the parents seeking attention and social validation by warping what is a not-so-rare phase of growing up into depriving kids of their normal childhood.

This is some sick dystopian shit.

>>8859766
i agree with much of your post, but its not just the thing ls derived from your biological sex. its that plus the stuff society socializes into you

for example: women being seen as caretakers of children derives from their bio sex because of they carry the child to term and have breasts

but the views on greek gay sex vs modern gay sex? thats purely societal.

For a more direct example, pink is seen as girly now, yet it used to be seen as a manly color. The same swap occurred with blue im pretty sure. Such preferences are purely societal and have nothing to do with biological sex.

>should fight against rigid gender roles

i agree with this. the people who want third genders are a very small minority and have little to no basis to create one with

>>8859766
This. People conflate gender with gender roles.

>>8859779
Because gender is the sum of gender roles. thus if gender roles change, so can gender

>>8859776
I don't see how any of your examples refute my statement. The idea that some people misinterpret how biological sex informs behavioural patterns, does not mean binary gender categorisation is a useless attempt, nor that we need to come up with other genders based on the very 'social constructs' that the new-left is claiming to fight against.

>>8859770
Please use =/= in the future rather than !=. The former is more aesthetically pleasing than the latter.

>>8859776
>fight against rigid gender roles
Funny, it's all the sick fuck tranny advocates that begin taking little Timmy to gender dysphoria treatments just because he likes dolls or tell Mary she can use a boy name if she likes just because she is tomboyish.

There is no people on Earth more obsessed with enforcing gender roles than transexuals and their advocates.
Pic related, dressing their transitioned daughter as a fucking Prince Charming.

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>>8859776
>>8859792
Forgot the fucking pic

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>>8853505
Holy fuck that's the most Jewish thing I ever heard

G
A
S

I
T

>>8859788
reading comprehension dude...i was agreeing with almost all of what you said. the only part i sorta disagreed with was that gender is purely informed by your biological sex, because thats not true, though part of it is

>>8854235
>They do actually often have neurological and hormonal similarities that contradict their assigned gender, but skinny people aren't fat. Bad analogy
Sure, but that doesn't mean they are a member of the opposite sex. It means they are ill, and need treatment, which doesn't involve indulging their delusions.
>>8853519
>I mean, the basic point he's making is fundamentally correct; there's all sorts of weird (physiological) intersex conditions known to medicine, from complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (in which someone who's 46XY develops as female due to their body not responding to male hormones) to 5α-reductase deficiency (in which 46XY children are born phenotypically female and turn mostly male at puberty) to the rare and exotic chimeric hermaphroditism, in which a male embryo and a female embryo combine in early development to produce a single individual with features of both.
That isn't the problem though. Hes insinuating that there are multiple genders, or a spectrum thereof, based on the exceptions to the rule, rather than the rule itself. This is the part that is absolute nonsense.

>>8859792
i personally believe subjecting children to those treatments is wrong. just let the kid play dress up without pumping him full of hormones

>>8859812
Even if I concede to that larger definition of yours, it still doesn't make sense to do away with gender binary categorization. Was this not what we were talking about?

>>8859058
>but hormone blockers aren't a life ruining event like you claim. the whole point of them is to delay puberty a little bit to see if the kid really is wired to be trans, or if it's just a quirk/phase.
>and if they're not trans, they can go off the hormone blockers with minimal harm done; their balls might drop a year or two later, but they'll develop normally.
This isn't true though. Puberty can't just magically start and stop at your whims, regardless of what medication you take, and puberty blockers are not an on/off switch.

If a boy takes puberty blockers, he will have an underdeveloped penis, forever. If he takes it for a short time, the difference won't be as significant, relatively speaking, but there will be a difference. If he takes it until hes ~20, and decides hes not really a tranny, too bad, he now has a dick which is about an inch long, and functionally useless, turning him into, functionally, a eunuch. If he decides he is a tranny, and decides to get SRS, well, woops, not enough penile tissue to use as a vaginal replacement, so tissue has to be grafted elsewhere. So, where? The leg? Limited to no sensitivity, and the poor bastard may even have to deal with hair growth. I'm sure that will be fun, for all parties involved.

Maybe a colon graft is used, but of course, you want to eradicate any bacteria, or the infection that will result in a place that is essentially an open wound would make most STDs look appetizing, so you better make damn sure it isn't botched. If it is? Well, congratulations, now you have to deal with a huge array of medical problems which I'd rather not think about, seeing as my dinner is cooking.

Lets say a colon graft is done meticulously. Even in this best case scenario, you get very limited sensitivity, in what is essentially an open wound which is being used for sex.


I'm not attacking trannies, I've got no problems with them. But these are the kinds of scenarios which some of them may face.

>>8859822
Read my original point up the chain...i said american society currently only has two already, though its possible for their to be more than three if the majority of society recognizes it. If someone declares a third gender that doesnt change things until 50%+ of society recognizes the gender

for example, the multiple native american tribes (130ish) had a "third gender" of sorts called two spirit people. this was a classification of people with a mix of gender roles that were both masculine and feminine. This is further evidence that conceptions of gender are socially influeneced.

but to restate, again, because most of america only recognizes two genders, our society only has two. but the idea that there cannot be more isnt true

>>8859851
there can be as many genders as we successfully negotiate. I was only saying that negotiating genders on anything other than biological input is a retarded and harmful attempt and ironically goes against the whole 'gender is a social construct' idea that they're claiming to fight. If we find a biological set that is more useful in predicting and categorising behaviour patterns, I'm all for it.

There are people with men's bodies who feel that they should have a woman's body.

> there are no tall people who think they should actually be perceived as short

> there are no skinny people who think they should be perceived as a fat guy.

> these are no white people who think they need to be perceived as black and vice versa.

SCIENCE OF FEELINGS

>>8859925
>Tall and short people have the same brain differences as males and females
>Skinny and fat people have the same brain differences as males and females
>Black and White people have the same brain differences as males and females

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>

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>>8859925
>these are no white people who think they need to be perceived as black and vice versa.

>>8859445
Moral misconceptions? Who are you to determine that, you arrogant prick?
I swear, ever since you came into this thread everything got fucked back into semantics and left/right bullshit. We were having a nice discussion with the actual people who seem well-versed in this topic. I hate you so much for halting the advancement of science and technology, the understanding of the human behavior and not to mention for the total destruction of this thread.

>>8860043

He's probably not even a scientist. That's why he had to make it his name and tripcode it so that nobody take all it.

>>8859445

> I see a /pol/ thread here

This tells you everything you need to know.

The leftist sees debating gender as out of the ordinary and out of place in a civilized society, and concludes that only racist xenophobic conservatives could possibly hold such views. As such, the leftist labels the group as outsiders, mistakenly concluding that since the conversation did not sway to their liking, it must be outside influence of another group causing it.

/pol/ is not the place to discuss this topic. /sci/ is. Just because you don't like what's going on doesent mean that you get to label us /pol/ and stop listening.

All a leftist has to do is label you as na ideological enemy and he gets to ignore you with a clear conscience.

>>8853418
>2017
>Giving Nye free publicity by reposting the same shit over and over again

>>8853496
>hey mom look, i can make up weird disorders for people that are different than me even though every human has a uniquely different brain that ticks totally different from mine but i dont give a shit because my brain says im a selfish cis gendered bigot!!!!!

>>8860083
You can't be real. Stop trying to make us look bad.

>>8860083
>hey mom look, why fight cancer since cells are unique and tick as they wish, who am I to fight natural physiological occurrences?

>>8860107
>hey mom look, i am treating cancer because i dont believe in evolution, am i good christian boy now??

>>8860079
>Bumping all the threads to the front
Shut the fuck up.

>>8860122
uhm.. yes? yes son, you are good by most standards

>>8860127
>He thinks they can be bumped to the back
Fucking prick

>>8853505
I heard about this.
John Money called his experiment succes.
Fucking sick individual.

>>8860160
I'm sorry my Midwestern mode of speech has upset your delicate autistic sensibilities.

>>8859770
>>has never taken a biology class in his life
>>doesn't understand that gender and sex are two related but different things
why are you pretending like this has anything to do with biology? the gender vs sex dichotomy is a very recent political/social """"""""""""science""""""""""" invention that has nothing to do with any credible biology

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adam no

>>8853418
There are 2 chromosomes in human karyotype.
X and Y.
Sometimes chromozome deffect can happen, sometimes human is born as XXX, XYY, X and so on,
Gene Y includes this little thing called SRY, which is gene that starts the making of male gender.
One can live without chromozome Y, but not without X.
That means female can't be male in woman's body without chromozome Y.
When it comes to males somethimes they may have hormone production defect and that leads to making female features.
But these dudes are still males, they just need some hormonal defect so they take hormones, so they evolve more male features. This also can happen to females, but only if they take lots of hormones regullary.
These people are normally classified as ones who who have defects and children are usually getting a treatment so they get closer to their biological sex.

Then some idiots come and they claim that they are their opposite sex (or both sexes at once) just because they have a fetish for it.

>>8860262
>nothing to do with any credible biology

>Male and female brains have consistent differences
Biological fact
>If, for some reason, a person with a male body's brain ended up developing into something similar to the female's brain, they could mentally feel different than they do physically
This also seems logically sound.

So your real argument is that there would be no scenario in which the definably different female brain structure ends up in a male and vice versa, and that is far less reasonable to me.

>>8859700
>>8859695
>>8859693
This isn't your blog please stop posting your blog posts

>>8860277
*they just need some hormonal treatment

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>>8854501

>>8860281
no I'm saying the gender vs sex dichotomy has everything to do with politics and sociology and nothing to do with biology

from a biological perspective what you described is a male

>>8860315
>The brain isn't a biological component of a human

At the very least it's a neurological issue, which is still very much biology. You seem to be limiting the definition of biology.

>>8860337
your sex isn't defined by your brain
even if the individual shows some phenotypically female features he's still unambiguously a male

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NcfqRYqXOo&t=224s

what the fuck dude

>>8860350
Right... But gender is. And that's the whole point.

>>8860363
and that's not a biological classification
there is no good criteria to determine someone's "gender" because the term has nothing to do with biology

>>8860373
You're just going around in circles. Genetic sex and the physical makeup of the brain are BOTH biological components. Neurology isn't a soft sciences.

>>8860381
your "gender" isn't determined by the neorological makeup of your brain
it's determined by no objective or clear criteria that sjws can't even agree on (do you just decide, does society decide for you, etc.)

the concept of gender as in a sex-gender dichotomy is not a biological concept

>>8860393
>your "gender" isn't determined by the neorological makeup of your brain
Says who? If you mean in current practice, then sure, but if you mean objectively then that's the obvious meaning.

>>8860405
>Says who?
who says it is?

>>8860414
Well the standard explanation for transgenderism is "an X's brain in a y's body"

That being said, I understand your point that modern science isn't yet using that as a metric, but that doesn't mean that it's not there.

>>8860425
There is not a "male brain" and a "female brain" to be mixed up. If there were such a thing discovered then the SJW wing of Science™ would die in a circular firing squad quicker than anyone anticipated.

>>8860269

>good meme anon

fuck its true

hold me anon

>>8859774
>Delaying puberty fucks up the body in many ways including growth hormones, sex characteristics, sexuality, etc.
But That's Wrong You Fucking Retard
you're literally making things up off the top of your head to justify your opinions.

>>8859842
>Puberty can't just magically start and stop at your whims, regardless of what medication you take, and puberty blockers are not an on/off switch.
source?
because there are several decades of precedent for puberty blockers being used to treat precocious puberty, with generally good results.

>>8860277
>There are 2 chromosomes in human karyotype.
>X and Y.
I don't even know where to begin with you...

>>8859781
No, gender roles are societal pressures based on the physiological differences between the genders, which are the phenotypes of male and female.

Please do not be wrong again thank you.

>>8861483
>you're literally making things up off the top of your head to justify your opinions.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/
>“We do know that there is some decrease in bone density during treatment with pubertal suppression,” Finlayson said, adding that initial studies have shown that starting estrogen and testosterone can help regain the bone density. What Finlayson said there isn’t enough research on is whether someone who was on puberty blockers will regain all their bone strength, or if they might be at risk for osteoporosis in the future.

>Another area where doctors say there isn’t enough research is the impact that suppressing puberty has on brain development.

>“The bottom line is we don’t really know how sex hormones impact any adolescent’s brain development,” Dr. Lisa Simons, a pediatrician at Lurie Children’s, told FRONTLINE. “We know that there’s a lot of brain development between childhood and adulthood, but it’s not clear what’s behind that.” What’s lacking, she said, are specific studies that look at the neurocognitive effects of puberty blockers.

https://www.pcf.org/c/side-effects-of-hormone-therapy/


>The list of potential effects of testosterone loss is long: hot flashes, decreased sexual desire, loss of bone density and increased fracture risk (Osteoporosis), erectile dysfunction, fatigue, increased risk of diabetes and heart attacks/strokes, weight gain, decreased muscle mass, anemia, and memory loss. Cholesterol, especially the LDL cholesterol, tends to rise, and muscle tends to get replaced by fat.

And this is not even getting on how hormone therapy afterwards literally destroys the pancreas.

Neck yourself.