Computer Science == meme

>>8825237
>Why should/shouldn't it be classified under a "science" term?
because it doesn't follow the scientific method

>>8825237
Comp Science is at it's very core and pure level a better science than other fields. It has better fundamental questions than in any other field.

>>8825240
So you're implying that every field that doesn't utilise the traditional scientific method in every single problem isn't science?
I would disagree that computer science doesn't utilise the scientific method.

>>8825272
>I would disagree that computer science doesn't utilise the scientific method.
go on...

>>8825237
>What is it about computer science that makes it a meme?
People that think web development is CS.

>>8825237
== is a meme.

>>8825323
remember when := meant assignment, and we didn't need == ?

>>8825327
What bothers me is the linguistic act of borrowing bits of formal language and integrating them into natural language in hopes of gaining an air of authority. It's clumsy and pompous.

Back in the day people thought it was a new kind of science, only later we realized it is just a extension of mathematics, but the name was kept.

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>>8825237

>>8825272
Yeah, that's what science is. What part of CS uses the scientific method in any way?

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>>8825383
why you keep posting this

MechE major here

Here's my code from a connect 4 project. I've bee told I should consider switching majors by my professor but know damn well this code sucks, although the game works 100%.

http://ideone.com/c697Lt

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>>8825237
The real question here, is... Why do you care?

Are you here to be productive and ask serious questions, or are you here to make fun of a major that doesn't follow your preconceived notions of convention?

>>8825401
>http://ideone.com/c697Lt

I'm laughing so fucking hard, is this for real, or its just trolling?

>>8825416
its just where I store my code

>>8825416
fucking /g/ YLYL material

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>>8825421
>1600 lines of garbage is still garbage
>Could have been done in less than 500
>Talk so easily about doing CS

You're being too obvious when it comes to trolling.

>>8825424
NIGGA, YOU CAN DO THAT UNDER 50, TOP FUCKING KEK

>>8825424
No, I'm not a compsci fag. The CS professor suggested I should consider CS as a major because of that program. I said I hate this programming class and the program is shit

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>>8825401
wew lads

>>8825237
it's a branch of mathematics. it's STEM for sure. whether or not you want to call it "science" is more of a language/semantics issue. in non-english languages "science" translates a bit like "the art of knowledge" and there is no issue there. but i can understand why native english speakers and especially americans don't want to call it a science.

tl;dr it doesn't matter it's just jealous brainlet spergs nitpicking about the meaning of a word

>>8825401

CS major here. I wrote an entire discrete-event network simulator in less code than this. This is terrible.

>>8825401
Did you write a script to generate that code? Be honest anon because otherwise that's a lot of effort to get (You)s

Theory B is pretty comfy and has strong ties with mathematical logic

>>8825468
What the fuck is theory B

>>8825237
It's a subset of mathematics when done right.

>>8825458
I know it is, its why I respect you CS guys so much. I hate CS, I went into MechE to stay away from anything programming related.

>>8825247
>It has better fundamental questions than in any other field.
Like what?

>>8825465
No I wrote that from scratch.

lots of ctrl+c/ctrl+v

>>8825492

It's expected if you don't program on a regular basis, but I'm wondering what in the world is wrong with your CS professor that he thought your spaghetti indicated promise in the field.

Do you do particularly well with algorithmic problem solving? My desperate hope is that at least your educators have an idea of what it takes for somebody to show promise as a computer scientist.

>>8825401
>1700 lines
Wew lad.

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>>8825437
go away /pol/

>>8825237

It's more of a language syntax exploration than actual science.

Assembling word puzzles basically.

>>8825497
She told me for someone who has never had any programming experience, the fact that my program has absolutely no bugs impressed her.

The reason that program sucks is that I fucking suck at functions. C sucks, I think I'd have a much better time in a more developed language desu

>>8825523

C is fine. I think you just needed to consolidate your logic a bit. A lot of your current logic is redundant.

>>8825523
>C sucks
It has nothing to do with the language and everything to do with you being absolute trash at it

>>8825319
>>8825272
Yes, that is is exactly what it means to be science

>>8825522

One could also argue that math in general is a task in puzzle solving. I disagree with your statement that computer science is simply 'syntax exploration.' How would such a definition apply to the computational study of cryptography (as in the field of provable security)? Computational geometry? Computational complexity? People on /sci/ like to argue that these don't truly belong to the field of computer science for one inane reason or another, but the fact of the matter is that these are all genuine sub-fields and areas of concentration within computer science.

>>8825525
I know I could've used functions to reduce the redundancy, but that's my weakness in the course and I was on a time crunch. Really, some extra for loops could've reduced the length significantly, but every minute of that code was painful to write.

>>8825526
I agree that I'm trash at programming, its why I never wanted to program and why I want to pass this class with a B and never look back.

>>8825327
== is logical equality you literal retard

>>8825479
'Theory A' is computational complexity and analysis of algorithms. 'Theory B' is stuff like programming language theory, logic, type theory, etc.

http://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2003/03/theory-and-theory-b.html
https://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/1521/origins-and-applications-of-theory-a-vs-theory-b

In American CS departments, A is more common. In Europe there's a mix of both.

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Computer Science isn't a meme necessarily, but unfortunately most Computer Science programs are more along the lines of an automotive technician programs, practical / lab oriented courses with minimal theory involved. These programs are designed to churn out vaguely competent programmers, not the next generation of computer scientists who are going to make the newest fastest algorithm or prove P=NP (although there will be slapsticky arguments over those kinds of topics, they won't amount to anything).

Frankly, I see programming becoming a trade field in 10-20 years, along with welding, automotive technology, plumbing and electricity. This will probably siphon off most of the brainlets (not talking shit, just being honest) and leave Computer Science as an odd, but scientifically rigorous field with a paper being published every now and then by a few passionate professors.

I mean, there's Chemistry and Physics, as legitimate sciences, and then there's Chemical Engineering and Mechanical Engineering, and then there's the automotive technician certificate programs. Computer Science fields will inevitably fall into a similar hierarchy:
>High level theory work, experiments, data collection and statistical interpretation
>Theory-dependent practical application work with a high level of precision required to solve mid-level problems
>"Everyman" job of using the engineers work to implement solutions in everyday situations (average pajeet programmer, "technician" type job)

>>8825535
I mean, math is a computing language on its own with specific syntax, procedures and results. Really, Computer science is more of a field of mathematics and than a science.

>>8825537

Your first programming class in C may be a bit jarring, but the sort of command over programming methodologies you would need to implement Connect 4 in a reasonable manner isn't anything to write home about; it's not really something that should be beyond the reach of a novice who has little practice.

Are you actually following along with the units in your class? Did you attempt to put in the time to figure out how to manipulate functions in C? You shouldn't be so defeatist about things. If you can't put in the time to learn simple things like C syntax and design patterns, how far do you really believe you will make it in your own field?

>>8825494
Nice effort (Y)

/sci/ is a cesspool of retards. The opinions here don't matter

>>8825540
Interesting, I've never heard of the topics being divided like that in the states

>>8825549
That would normally seem to make sense, but you lack the perspective of your average room temperature IQ guy, whom the basic logic of loops and if statements frustrates.

You all need to understand as elementary as calculus seems to you all, 80% of Americans will never do it. Computer logic is similar. You spend your life around those of similar intellegence so you conclude anyone could do it.

>>8825552
I like my field of study, I'm a junior at my uni. I've thoroughly enjoyed all my classes so far except compsci. I just don't like programming. I don't have the patience for it. I've put in the effort for functions, but I struggle with implementing them and debugging them so much that I avoid them as much as I can.

I kind of enjoy writting programs to solve math related problems, but compsci is just not my thing.

>>8825561
>That would normally seem to make sense, but you lack the perspective of your average room temperature IQ guy, whom the basic logic of loops and if statements frustrates.
Possibly true. During one of the lower periods in my life, I was studying to become an automotive technician, and christ above, the guys you encounter there are just not that bright. Nice, hardworking guys - they go to church, they keep their head down and all, but the mental capabilities just don't quite seem there for a lot of the abstract thinking stuff.

They all get to pass the course because every course had the majority of its points based on the "labs," which were just common technician procedures. You could not do any of the tests or quizzes and still pass with a C (although you still had to do the written homework.)

I think some of them could hack it. Auto diagnostic flowcharts are easy enough to grasp, so I'd imagine most of them if they put the work in could get past if / else and while loops. For loops are a little tricky, but they're essentially extended while loops.

So I disagree, I think programming is for total brainlets and any moron could be taught to be a pajeet level java programmer in 2-3 years.

>>8825457
>in non-english languages "science" translates a bit like "the art of knowledge" and there is no issue there. but i can understand why native english speakers and especially americans don't want to call it a science.
German here. For "science" we say "Wissenschaft" (literally "knowledge shaft"). We do consider Computer Science a sceicen, but we distuingish it from Physics, Chemistry and Biology, which are Naturwissenschaften (natural sciences, or "nature knowledge shaft").

>>8825585
plow me with your knowledge shaft omg

>>8825549
Programming is already a trade field in Germany. Not even kidding. But people still study Computer Science because it offers you more opportunities, you can get into more fields besides just programming (computer engineering and computer science are usually a combined degree here), and you earn more money, you are more intelligent, etc.
It's basically like being an electrician by trade vs studying Electrical Engineering. Or being a dentist's assistant vs being a dentist.

>>8825613
No wonder I see so many Germans doing low-level stuff

>>8825561
this

a pajeet is almost worthless. the only reason companies will compromise on competence is because there aren't enough competent programmers to go around, because programming is hard. programming beyond the most basic tasks is something the average person simply cannot do. if programming were to get "dumbed down" to the point where anyone can do it, we would have invented general artificial intelligence and AI + automation/robotics would render almost ALL human professions obsolete.

>>8825237
You can get a programming job without a degree. It does really demand a lot if math

>>8825237
>is it more like an engineering field?

No it's more like mathematics. Things are built up from axioms and studied formally. There isn't really experiments/hypothesis/etc like there are in empirical sciences (besides maybe in certain subfields of CS like machine learning)

>>8825576
>I think some of them could hack it. Auto diagnostic flowcharts are easy enough to grasp, so I'd imagine most of them if they put the work in could get past if / else and while loops. For loops are a little tricky, but they're essentially extended while loops.

Yeah but that is following a flow-chart vs taking some specifications and turning it into an algorithm (flow-chart) yourself.

>>8825237
>Engineering
CS is not software design.

CS is about the study of computation.

>>8825240
You're right, It uses mathematical proofs. Which is superior to empirical science in every single way.

>>8825386
Insecurities about his own choice of major and inability to find a job.

>>8825237
It should be called "computational mathematics" in my opinion.

>>8825237

cs more like CShit

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>>8825272
>>8825319

Looks rather comparable to me.

>>8825869
>Which is superior to empirical science in every single way.
Why do you think so?

>>8825457
I agree that comp Sci at its core is a science. The stigma comes from the fact that the field relies heavily on math but most programs only go to Calc 4. Some newer programs don't even require Calc 1. Without proper logic and analysis, comp Sci is reduced to nothing more than vocational training for monkeys.

>>8825401
Wow, the amount of crap you get is unbelievable. The fact is that if you had a problem and knew how to solve it by any means necessary, you're a winner. At school you're not usually given many tools (at a classroom teaching standpoint) to work with so that kind of code is expected. You know how the game works and how to set it up. I think you learned from your project and you definitely should continue making programs, as you're not afraid to work harder if you come across an obstacle. When you learn how to execute that with functions defined by you alone, you're looking at a much more efficient code. Hell, the reason why I like this code so much is because it's EASY to follow. I know exactly what you're doing and you have sufficient documentation, which is a good practice. I wouldn't switch majors though, stick with ME and use your problem solving skills there.

My uni is #5 in CS program in the US and includes a lot of rigorous theory-heavy classes. Would /sci/ still consider that a meme?

CS is a sub field of mathematics. Whenever sci says computer science they mean web dev, game dev and other areas that aren't "pure" CS theory.

Pure CS theory is just a sub area of mathematics. Most CS majors stay away from that

>Drawing numbers in circles n drawing arrows
>science

Why is CS the most pretentious of all the sciences?

>>8825624
I think this has to do with Germany's big automotive industry.

>>8825237
CS != Software engineering

I'm CS, I see the core of computer science as not being computer related:
>A bit of maths
>Advanced management skills
>Advanced deduction skills
>Logical thinking
>Ability to consume A LOT of technical documentation.

Likewise - I design circuits now and then for work, and I find my proffessional buying skills are more usesful than my basic (hobbyist) Electrical Engineering skills.

>>8825401
Why do you hate functions?

>>8825237
>Why should/shouldn't it be classified under a "science" term?
>is it more like an engineering field?

I agree. I think Computer Science would be better thought of as an engineering discipline.

> Hence why at many low-tier universities comp sci degrees have a high failure rate.

That's because most people have no clue what Computer Science is. People use Powerpoint or Excel and they think that's what goes on in a Computer Science classroom. There is a huge, huge amount of confusion out there.

>>8825549
>the next generation of computer scientists who are going to make the newest fastest algorithm or prove P=NP

We have very, very little need for this -- relatively speaking.

For every computer scientist who works on pure theory, we need 20 others doing development, or doing research that directly supports that development. And, sorry theorists, but trying to prove that P=NP is not the kind of research that is going to be "supporting" any development projects.

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>>8825401
HOLY FUCKING WHAT?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THIS?!

>>8825401
i have a feeling that portions of this are going to be featured in those cs graduate memes pretty soon

>>8825401
I believe the other guys lost perspective. Yes, you could have done it shorter, cleaner and better. Perhaps you could have done a must robust modelling, but the code is clean and clearly you cleaned the code and debugged it.

I think it is above average for a standard non-comp sci project, you could do a lot more if you expand your knowledge in a systematic way . If you enjoyed it I would suggest at least getting a few comp sci classes.

Knowing how to code (and do it well) can do a lot for you no matter what you do.

>>8827042
Unfortunately, a lot of places teach it as just coding.

>>8827665
as long as it works it's not bad for a newb but it's nowhere near what would be expected from a professional programmer

>>8827684
>""""""professional"""""" programmer

>>8827686
http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/03/technology/h1b-visa-fraud/

>>8825237
computer science functions under layers and layers of abstractions, and uses very little physical, chemical, or quantum sciences in it. It is more akin to computer engineering, but without the engineering degree.

>>8827694
>It is more akin to computer engineering
Only if you don't know what computer engineering and computer science are.

>>8827684
I agree. But learning should always encouraged and the shape of his code suggests that he is interested enough in logic, structure or programming in general to get a few courses.

But he definitely must get better.

>>8825539
>being this new

>>8825991
Thank you.

>>8827665
Thank you, but this is the only compsci course required for me to get a MechE degree. I'd rather deal with thermodynamics, dynamics and material science than compsci.

>>8827731
Yes I suck at this but its the last time I have to deal with it besides Matlab

>>8825272
Please provide an example wherein computer science uses the scientific method. I'm genuinely curious.

>>8825401
Stop it. It's not funny

>>8828016
Proposing a algorithm to find a approximation for a multi-armed bandit

>>8825401
>these are the people talking shit about CS majors on /sci/
k

>>8825922
>Software Design process

Isn't that more SE than CS?

>>8825540
>In American CS departments, A is more common

I dunno about that. Seems like at an undergraduate level most schools are just turning CS into Software Engineering with 1 or 2 mandatory algorithms class.

>>8825237
As a dude in the field, I think it should be called "Computational Mathematics" instead.

>>8828016
It's just a matter of phrasing, at least for anything applied. Observation "it might be possible to write a better algorithm for this problem", hypothesis/prediction "this algorithm X will perform better than existing algorithm Y", experiment by running them both, the algorithm becomes the new theory, new observation "we might be able to improve algorithm X by doing Z".

>>8826931
>#5 in CS program in the US
what uni anon?

>>8826986
>Pure CS theory is just a sub area of mathematics. Most CS majors stay away from that
Yep, because it's pretty dull and very un-sexy. The only advantage is not having to keep up with new programming languages or concepts.

>>8825401
Why are you so fucking evil anon?
Why does this exist?

Did you think this was funny?

>>8825991
>I know exactly what you're doing
Sure, the same shit, repeatedly with a fuckload of minute changes; he needs to learn about functions.

std::string() + x1 + o1
>and you have sufficient documentation, which is a good practice
Not always, the code should speak for itself; the long ass sequence of check breaks really doesn't

>>8825523
>she

>>8828763
Software engineering and computer science are pretty interchangeable, CS implies more theory than just programming though.

>>8825401
this is what happens when mathematicians and engineers write code. shitty spaghetti code with high complexity and low modularity

>>8830195
and then they act like programming is so easy

>>8825401
>>8825492
If your teacher thinks this is good code just because it doesn't have bugs, good enough to merit telling you to consider changing your major, she's fucking retarded, no offense.
That is a shitty teacher. Don't get discouraged just because you have a shitty teacher. I urge to revisit the course, or take an online one in Python or whatever, when you have the time. Don't walk away thinking you suck. It is hard, and the skills are cummulative. You need to fully grasp the basic looping structures; solve some easy problems first.

I wish you the best anon.

>>8825468
>>8825540
So compilers enter into theory B?

"Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes"

>>8830612
That's a pretty retarded quote as it assumes that "computer" here refers to the machine.

>>8830174
>(You)

>>8829108
Illinois
Ranked right under cmu/mit/stanford/berkeley. Not too well known unfortunately but the CS program is supposedly very good nonetheless.

>>8831271
That's the grad school rankings, and has little to no impact on undergraduate reputation. I'm assuming you are a freshman or sophomore ofc

>>8831348
Shhh let me be proud of my underfunded state school education :(

>>8825237
It's not an actual science because it doesn't utilize the scientific methodology used to set aside a testing example from a control example. There's no increase in knowledge based on the analysis of two discernable groups. People mistake it as a science because it's intellectually challenging but really there is no hypothesis testing in a mathematical-language built system. Merely purposeful trial and error. In cs, you either already know the outcome of what you're trying to do or you don't know and you're shooting in the dark in hope to hit something.

Lets hear a better name. Go ahead. The reality is computer "science" is the best way to name it. Everybody in CS knows it's not really science.

>>8831690
Informatics, see Germany

>>8831696
Or Russia.

>>8830186
This is what brainlets actually think

>>8832214
I thought they weren't supposed to be able to see this board.

>>8830186
You're a retard.

>>8832214
>>8832330
I'm sorry, I was just spouting bullshit that I've read other places on the internet.

>>8832334
props for your honesty

>>8825237
So the [math]P = NP[/math] problem is engineering ?

>>8831690
computation

>>8831690
Computational mathematics.

>>8825401

It was fine until you got to checking wincons.

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>>8830195
>mathematicians and engineers
brainlets will find a way to write shit code no matter the major, pic related is your average CS

the only thing worse is the socks and sandal fedora wearing CS who jerks off over his 17 levels of abstraction but has no idea what the hell is actually going on under the hood.

>>8825237

maybe because a computer is an advanced scientific instrument... idiot

>>8825980
What can be done if Calc 4 prequesites and proper logic are met?

>>8825401
In the time it took you to write out all those win conditions, you probably could have found a far more elegant solution.

>>8825416
OH MY GOD

>>8825401
>read a paper
>"Hmm, wonder how X was actually implemented"
>in the very rare case I actually find the code, it looks like this
Never trust scientists to write a program longer than 500 lines.

>>8825240

i bet youre the kind of idiot that thinks statistics arent a science either.
furthermore i bet youre the kind of idiot that thinks philosophy is relegated to the subjective study of ethics.

>>8825922
>graphic showing the scientific method as an algorithmic learning process
what is self-refutation

>>8825493
Like random sequences or pseudo-random sequences, algorithms and complexity, all statistics test like MonteCarlo Test ecc , AI, Signals Theory, P = NP... bro.......

>>8825575
You're good dude don't worry about the hate you're getting on here. Everyone has fields they just don't like, programming isn't for everyone and thank god it's not lol

>computer "scientist"
>software "engineer"

When they call themselves this, its clear they are just trying to muscle in on science and engineering because of their insecurity.
But how can they muscle in on other fields?

>computational "mathematician"
>source code "linguist"
>artificial intelligence "psychologist"
>computer network "sociologist"
>electronic "physician"
>non carbon "biologist"
>silicon "philosopher"
>data tree "horticulturist"
>system soul "theologian"
>non human logic systems of ambiguous gender "womens studies major"

>>8825237
xXx_GameProBro_xXx with his consistent killstreaks in CoD wants to be a game dev, thinks he'll learn it in compSci

>>8825585
>knowledge shaft
kek
I'm german too, but i never realized this before.

>>8825613
this.
There is also a certain difference between universities and "Hochschulen" (application level universities).

>>8827003
>CS is only about manually drawing graph models
Go on arxiv.org. Go to the section "Computer Science". Try reading some papers. You'll get a feeling for what CS is.

I asked in the topic about AI, but nobody awnsered. Could somebody tell me the prerequisites to understand the NFL theorems?

>>8836448
I was going to write that, mind boggling important stuff.
Small things like why 10^80 particles in the n-body problem just seems to work itself out automatically and instantly (light speed considered) in our universe is not even asked by physics.

>>8825237
Is computer science just information theory and electrical engineering?

it's just angry virgin mathematicians butthurt that us CS graduates are pulling in 300k starting after only 4 years of study while with unlimited growth potential and fucking real girls instead of jerking it to cartoons lmao

>>8825613
So Im actually gonna start my Compsci degree at RWTH-Aachen this october this year, what exactly do you mean with "trade field" ( tried googling, no results )
Is it not worth it?

>>8839917
I assume he means that people go to a trade school to learn it, which is usually just something like an apprenticeship where you work for someone for a while as they teach you, or you take a few classes instead of getting the entire degree.

>>8825492
Knowing some programming will make you a much better engineer. Perhaps you will enjoy programming within the domain of ME?

>>8825523
>absolutely no bugs

Try entering 0 followed by 8. (should keep asking for valid input, shouldn't it?)

>>8825237
It's a meme because people that graduate didn't learn any languages alongside their education so they're basically useless until then after college. They complain they don't have jobs and are stuck being code monkeys.

>>8825401
>everyone in my major (CS) claims they know C
>tfw their code looks like this but doesn't even work
Everyone's code looks like garbage when they're in the "just get it to work" phase. It's just that everyone then condenses it before showing their program to anyone.

>>8825401
>although the game works 100%
http://ideone.com/j7gXAm

>>8843195
>comlumn

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>>8825401
stop posting this

>>8825272
Otherwise the people putting in your bathroom tiles would be considered to be scientists

>>8839049
lost my shit

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I'm a CS major, and this thread made me vomit. No one here even sounds like they've taken a CS class.

>>8825401
did they not teach you how to write functions? literally 2 functions would shorten this code by upwards of 1200 lines

>>8825922
>Software engineering
>Computer science
That's like arguing that something is true for engineering therefore it's true for physics as well

>>8825401
what language is this? I only know C++ and MatLab and it looks like a strange hybrid of the two

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>>8825383
why is it so true brehs

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>>8825401
i want off this ride

>>8834909
i'm going to code gold this just to show how retarded anon is

give me 10 minutes

>>8846302
Approximately 20 mins have passed, anon.

>>8846358
he's chasing segfaults

rip

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>>8846358
>>8846405
got distracted

>>8831690
Algorithmics

>>8827575
>And, sorry theorists, but trying to prove that P=NP is not the kind of research that is going to be "supporting" any development projects.

Why do you suggest any would think that? Allmost all theorists agree that the P vs. NP question is going to unresolved for quite some time. Additionally, they don't expect practical results (the answer to the question isn't that interesting), but novel theoretical methods in the techniques used in deciding the question.

And in case "trying to prove that P=NP" was some sort of catch-all for any theoretical work, consider SCALGO (https://scalgo.com/ ). Their product is based on the application of a mostly theoretical result in different models of computation, being developed by 7 to 8 PhD students. SCALGO's flood analysis service is very highly regarded and used by all of Denmark's engineering firms.

Is this kind of research that doesn't 'support' anything? Where are the 20 developers? Where is the proof for your claims? Where is the evidence?

>>8846694
CS undergraduate here. Color me interested.
>Scalable Algorithmics (SCALGO) was founded with the mission to bring cutting-edge big terrain data processing technology to market. The SCALGO technology is based on more than two decades of basic and applied research on I/O-efficient and geometric algorithms at Center for Massive Data Algorithmics (MADALGO) at Aarhus University in Denmark and at Duke University in the US, in collaboration with industry LiDAR and environmental GIS application experts. SCALGO provides a range of desktop software, analysis and online large-area detailed terrain data set processing and analysis products.

http://cs.au.dk/research/centers/madalgo/research/

MADALGO focuses on three (different but also very related) core research areas that address some of the inadequacies of traditional theory:
* I/O-efficient algorithms: For efficient processing of massive datasets that reside
on slow (external) mass storage devices.
* cache-oblivious algorithms: For efficient processing of large datasets on devices with complicated (possibly even unknown) memory hierarchies.
* streaming algorithms: For efficient processing of data that is so massive that reading through it more than ones is infeasible, or for processing data
that naturally arrive continually in a streaming way.
* Algorithm engineering: That consists of the design, analysis and implementation of - and experimentation with - practical algorithms.

Hmm. No Annual report for 2015 and 2016 yet.

>>8846942
>I/O
Fucking trash.

>>8847009
Have fun doing anything on a computer without I/O.

>>8846942
>Color me interested.
Interested in what? The research? Or interested in an intership/graduation project or something?

Currently (and probably for the coming few years), SCALGO is interested in providing graduation projects (mostly for Master's I'd guess, but who knows)

If a professor at your department has some connections within I/O-efficient algorithms, you could try to arrange something. Otherwise, you could try asking directly

>>8847009
Have fun working on 10 TB datasets without I/O-efficient algorithms. Protip: do not expect to recieve any results within your lifetime.

>>8825237
it's unironically an area of mathematics
/sci/ will be triggered by this but it is true

>>8825556
should have been quads

>>8828170
algorithms' correctness is verified through proof, not inspection and evidence-gathering

>>8829098
computer science deals with these problems theoretically, and efficiency gains are proven not observed
you might be thinking of software development or computer engineering, which are not computer science

>>8825539
can you read?

>>8839049
Very underrated post

Everyone in this thread should check the amortised complexity of an unionfind partition for a truly "wow" moment in CS

>>8825433
He probably said that because your code was shit, and you need to learn.

>>8825237
I have been studying CS for two years now and as i watched few videos on youtube about it, it seems to me that CS is different in every country, maybe university.

What i study here in CZ, although the official translation is CS, is directly translated as "theory of IT".
80% of subjects i have are identical to SW engineering. But then instead of shitload of group projects and java, c# and stuff like that we at CS have advanced algorithms, data mining, compilers, stuff like that.

So i would say that there is no united look at what CS is, and people just throw a shit at something they imagine CS is.

>>8847098
(It's not that important. How useful could I even be at the moment. I'll think about it, when I am further along in my BSc.)

I/O-Algoritms is a MSc-Course after all. (I quickly looked over the Institute-Page and the Front-Page of the Uni in a Quest to find some slides for the basic and Advanced Algorithm Courses and the I/O-Algoritm-Course. And maybe see if there are some suitable Books on the topic for my reading level.)

I skimmed a tiny bit on the literature I stumbled upon about optimizing Algorithms for existing Cache-Hierachies on x86. I am loosely aware of Streaming Algorithms and the Cell-Processor (also its shopping-list-like fetching of tasks). So basically those Research-Areas interest me.

(Unfortunately our Prof. on streaming Algorithms left and as far as I remember none of our Institutes research topics line up smoothly.

Aarhaus also isn't a Partner-Uni. Though I guess given time this could be changed. ERASMUS might be an option though. )

>>8847111
A highly specialized branch of Mathematics.

Wouldn't be the first one though.

>>8847343
There is "Theoretical Computer Science" too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science#Areas_of_computer_science

http://explorer.opensyllabusproject.org/#Filter Syllabi by Field Computer Science

Do you study pure CS (not the Business one) at Charles University in Prague?

>>8830186
>software
>engineering

Computer "science" student here, even people I know that are software "engineers" don't call themselves engineers.

>>8848087
It's not as if CS isn't a science.

>>8825869
>You're right, It uses mathematical proofs. Which is superior to empirical science in every single way.
fukn rekt

>>8841599
No one who knows anything about fucking coding goes through a phase where this was even remotely acceptable code.

Stop mixing up Software Enginerring and Computer Science. Computer Science existed before programmable digital computers where even a thing.

>>8825237

Consider how poorly equipped anyone with only a bachelors in a classical science would be to advance that field; your first 4 years are mainly learning what is already known.

CS is no different in that respect. Then post-grad anyone with the wherewithal to eventually go after a doctorate and come up with entirely new theories of programming has little motivation to remain in academia with all the IT companies out there willing to throw money at them.

>>8825385
Performance Modeling

>>8825869
>You're right, It uses mathematical proofs. Which is superior to empirical science in every single way.

This.
I'm studying mathematics in Germany and have to pick a subsidiary subject. The only real choice here is computer science.
As a mathematician I appreciate the logical framework. It also teaches skills that every human should have considering the rate of current technological progress.

CS is not a meme. I view it as a sub-field of mathematics. Bootcamps, webdevs, code monkeys are memes that try to associate themselves to CS.

CS field is more lucrative than studying pure math. You can make $100,00+/yr if you can answer tough algorithms/data structures questions at FB, Amazon, Google. If you do a pure math/CS double major then this will be easy for you.

If you major in pure math alone you'll be lucky to get a job that pays $40,000/yr. If you know R, Python & Statistics you might get a better paying job, but not much more with just a BS. This will net you a "Data Analyst" kind of role at $60,000-$85,000/yr in most places not on the west coast.

Software engineering will be more competitive. in salaries. $100-120k/yr base. Bonus. Stocks etc. you could easily be making 120-150,000+ a year with just a BS in your 20s with a CS degree.

>>8825385
numerical analysis

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>>8834740

I badly need more of these CS Major memes
Please post some more

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>>8848430

>>8848466
is this real?

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>>8848464

>>8825237
Yep, it's engineering just like math.

>>8848470
ouch

>>8848487
https://www.daniweb.com/programming/software-development/threads/440954/can-t-fix-error-in-my-program

>>8839049
you forgot code "artisan"

>>8848517

>3549 lines of code

>>8848327
So CS is essentially loosing its potentially biggest minds to industry, when they should be training new ones (via Book)?

Well at least some publish.

(Like the Indians draining their best minds to the US, with no one left to teach the new ones.

Compare: WW2(?) shuffling back of Top Fighter Pilots to flight schools.)

>>8848381
Where do you study?

>>8848014
Well, you could always try contacting Lars Arge directly. I'm sure he's willing to tell you if you can be of use to them or what steps you have to take to be of use.

Note that it is very well possible that you should study some stuff beyond your I/O-algo course, so it's probably best to make contact early if/when you're considering this as a serious option.

>>8825272
Comouter science is more like a field of mathematics than science

I wonder if any of you who are so eager to classify comp sci as "mathematics, not science" can explain to me why mathematics is not a science?

IMO the traditional definition of CS is more applied math than anything. However, people are rounding up software engineering, web dev, IT, etc. and putting the same CS label on it. So now it's a fucking mess of a field of study that's loosely tied together through the heavy use of computers. IDK what makes it a meme tho, probably because it has strong ties with the internet.

>>8849772
Because the essence of science is that knowledge derives from _experiments_, preferably repeatable ones. The key paradigm of science is coming up with a hypothesis, and then asking Nature whether that makes sense as best you can. Mathematics does not follow this structure at all, which makes it fundamentally different from science.

This also applies to a substantial portion of computer science, which can therefore be classified as a branch of math; but it honestly does not apply to ALL of computer science, just the sexiest bits.

If CS is so fucking easy why don't you idiot "real science" majors working in shitty labs making $50k go get jobs as software engineers at high paying companies?

Oh yeah, because you don't know how to program. You're all falling for the Engineer--And-Scientist-Dunning-Kruger effect where you think every area of study but your own is easy because you've gotten a little taste of it

>>8848399
This is the only good post

4chan loves to think they're hating on CS, but they're really hating on Java, bootcamps, and bad programmers.

If it's so easy then you couldn't make 6 figures with only a bachelor's at a standard 9-5 without overtime. Because everyone would do it. Supply and demand

Have fun with your shitty inefficient matlab programs whose inner workings you don't even understand.

>>8849826
> Mathematics does not follow this structure at all

Why do you say that?
Proof-search requires the generation of many contingent hypotheses about the structure of proof space, and pursuing a particular proof strategy is an experiment on the suppositions that informed the strategy.

>>8849948
Not that guy but at that level of generality everything becomes a science and the definition of "science" becomes trivial.

>Privilege-checking requires the generation of many contingent hypotheses about the structure of oppression space, and pursuing a particular blame strategy is an experiment on the suppositions that informed the strategy.

If your argument is so generalized that a simple substitution of terms leads to a proof of something absurd, the argument was never sound in the first place.

>>8849975
"everything becomes a science"
Well when you're dealing with contingent knowledge ( and there are good arguments that all human knowledge is contingent ) then the scientific method is in fact the only reliable way to reduce the mismatch between your map and your territory.

I don't see why that should be a problem.

"simple substitution leads to something absurd"

For your example to be an example of reduction to absurdity you would first have to provide a reasonable definition for the meaning of your terms. "The structure of proof space" is not a magical concept, though "the structure of oppression space" sounds like it may be.

Simple example.

1 + 2 = 3
White + male = oppression

> simple substitution leads to an absurd proof
> hence 1 + 2 =/= 3

>>8825240
"science" doesn't mean "scientific method" you retard, it's a useful component of it, and CS does use it. "scientific method" doesn't mean traditional, simplistic empirical testing either. It's a body of techniques and concepts.

CS is not the engineering knowledge that is included in it. I realise the USA has boiled CS down to Software Engineering but that has no bearing on the actual field.

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speaking of memes,
some anon on /g/ uploaded the
Idris book

>>>/g/60032103

>>8850244
Is there something similar for Coq?

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>>8850268
>something similar

mhm... afaik Coq is just for compiling code, not to run programs. So you'll not find instructions on how to implement a Vending machine finite state machine on the type level or have people write type checkers for the developing editors and so on.

>>8850296
I mean introductory material.
>Coq is just for compiling code, not to run programs
You could use Idris like that as well, or any compiler even.
Also I'm pretty sure Coq can export to Haskell and OCaml.

>>8850296
The code in your image seems reproducible in Coq with Fixpoint and Type Classes to me.

>>8849993

But you just modeled the mindset of SJWs perfectly.

>>8849742
I wanted to get a/some books on the subject first.

Though those might not exist in concentrated form yet. Only chapters here and there and a vast body of Papers (and the foundational topics).

I guess asking directly might be most fruitful. Even if it only concerns a way for an undergraduate to read up on it / dabble a bit in private.

I'll look into our Uni-Library if I can find related Books / Papers first, before daring to bother them.

(In the end I'm probably to inexperienced, scared and lazy to do anything. I am also aware that my Math might not be up to spec.)

Has anyone here programmed in Ada?
Has it influenced your style in other languages?

>>8850349
I don't think any textbooks exist. Part 2 of these lecture notes http://www.win.tue.nl/~mdberg/Teaching/2IMA10-Material/course-notes-AA.pdf provide a decent introduction, though.

>>8850308
I'm not aware of such a reference

>>8850308
>>8850314
I'm sure you can.
I'm also sure you wouldn't.

>>8850308
You could look at 'Coq in a hurry', although that is nowhere near as big as the pdf linked.

>>8850365
I can work with that.

Thanks.
---

Prerequisites

In order to successfully take this course, you should already have a basic knowledge of algorithms and mathematics. Here’s a short list of what you are supposed to know:

¨ O-notation, Ω-notation, Θ-notation; how to analyze algorithms
¨ Basic calculus: manipulating summations, solving recurrences, working with logarithms, etc.
¨ Basic data structures: linked lists, stacks, queues, (balanced) binary search trees
¨ Basic techniques for algorithms design: incremental algorithms, divide-and-conquer
¨ Basic sorting algorithms, for example MergeSort, InsertionSort, QuickSort
¨ Graph terminology, representations of graphs (adjacency lists and adjacency matrix), basic graph algorithms (BFS, DFS)
¨ Proving with induction and invariants
¨ (Very) basic probability theory. The required knowledge will be reviewed in one of the lectures (and described in the course notes).

---
I see:
Workshop on Massive Geometric Datasets (Massive2005); Lars Arge, Mark de Berg, et.al.

That course resulted in-part from the needs of the Subfield.

>>8850380
>I'm also sure you wouldn't.
Do not underestimate autism.

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>>8825401
Holy shit, anon.

>>8828769
he obviously meant at the graduate level

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>computer science isn't science
>this faggotry is science

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>>8852155
really makes you think

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>>>8836227 >>8850227

>>8852264
Thanks for posting this, I needed a copy

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>>8825401
if(check[0] == 2 && check[1] == 2 && check[2] == 2 && check[3] == 2)
{
printf("Player 2 wins!");
break;
}

>>8852264
kek

>>8852300
what is this?

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>>8825401
I admire that you're self-aware enough to know what you've written is shit--regardless of your teacher's ignorance.
With that said, please don't ever write something like this again.

>>8848549
ayyy

>>8852155
The modern usage of 'science' has been such that I now associate it almost directly with popsci.

>>8825401
I sincerely hope this was generated
also
>main(void)

>>8853666
>>main(void)
that's how you're supposed to write it in C fag

>>8853748
no. either leave it empty or put the fucking arguments there

"Computer" "Science" is actually an art form

>>8853760
http://web.archive.org/web/20030222051144/http://home.earthlink.net/~bobbitts/c89.txt

"Program startup"

The function called at program startup is named main . The
implementation declares no prototype for this function. It can be
defined with no parameters:

int main(void) { /*...*/ }

or with two parameters (referred to here as argc and argv , though any
names may be used, as they are local to the function in which they are
declared):

int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { /*...*/ }

>>8853770
people don't write parameterless functions as f(void), do they? I've never seen that

>>8853788
>parameterless functions
There is no such thing.

>>8853788
yes they do

>https://github.com/GNOME/gtk/blob/master/gdk/gdkdisplay.c

but i don't use C so i don't know how common it is

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8022274/standard-way-to-define-parameter-less-function-main-in-c

>>8853666
I think compilers have complained about that in the past so I usually write it in.

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>>8848462
>tfw spent 30 minutes writing the code to do this
A-at least i'm not m-majoring in CS, r-right ?

>>8853798
In Comp Sci "function" is basically synonymous with "routine", and there is such a thing as a parameterless routine.

>>8854367
It's not, please use the proper word which is "routine".

>>8854374
"It's not"
It is.

>>8854390
"It is."
It isn't.

>>8854397
It is.

>>8854398
It is not.

>>8854408
https://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~pjbk/pathways/cpp1/node160.html

"Functions with no parameters"

Meaning is use, and such use is pretty pervasive. Now return to playing with your legos.

>>8852264
SICP is a great book. It's kind of a drag in the first chapters, but once it gets going with metacircular evaluator it becomes extremely enjoyable to read. I really recommend it to anyone who wants a deeper understanding of programmimg. Seriously, no /g/ memes.

>>8854412
>"Functions with no parameters"
This is impossible. "Routines with no parameters" would be the proper way to write this.
>such use is pretty pervasive
Retardation being pervasive doesn't somehow imply that it's not retarded. A non-retard would understand.

>>8854413
I've heard it also covers compilation, what sort of compiler do they build?

>>8854447
Not exactly compilation, but rather evaluation. In SICP you explore different paradigms of programming, like functional, logical, stream based and some others. It basically leads you through the basics of making a paradigm work. For example, if I call a function, where do I find it? Where do I find the variables, how do I evaluate the parameters and et cetera. And so you write a program that evaluates other program in that paradigm. It doesn't cover stuff like formal grammars or compilation at all, but rather principles behind programming. It's all thanks to Lisp's S-expressions, in which the programs themselves are just a piece of data you can manipulatr.

>>8825401
>http://ideone.com/c697Lt

Dear God this atrocious

>>8846302
Seems like he couldn't do it and proceeded to commit sudoku. RIP, anon.

>>8854439
A non retard would be able to adjust their understanding of a word based on context.

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>>8852155
oh for fuck's sake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wllc5gSc-N8

>What is it about computer science that makes it a meme?
Almost none of it is science now, it's just application or web development using whatever libraries are put out by smarter people.

You can graduate with a degree in CS and know absolutely fucking nothing about how a compiler works.

>>8854808
even with the hyped up buzzwords like "big data" and "machine learning" it's just a bunch of average intelligence normies dicking around with tensorflow

>>8854808
>You can graduate with a degree in CS and know absolutely fucking nothing about how a compiler works.
HOW!?

>>8855332
the same way you can bullshit your way through a calculus class?

Just because you passed the class doesnt meant anybody fucking knows anything. If you studied and got an A and feel good, think about every C student that doesnt know a goddamn thing and still passed.

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>>8855335
>C's get degrees
Its a shame that cramming just before a test is the only skill it takes for some people to graduate.

>>8854889
I go to a top CS school and even there this is mostly true

>>8855359
How do you think 98% of people get their degrees? Did you ever feel curious as to why your coworkers seemed mentally disabled?

>>8855376
what would you say mainly separates the average ones from the smart/successful ones?

>>8828001
I leave this fucking piece of shit website for 5 years, but the dank may mays are all the same. Maybe I'm the biggest faggot here for coming back...

I'm graduating from a Computer Science + Engineering program and I'd say it's pretty much an engineering discipline

I'm going to guess this varies heavily by school, some are kind of shitty and impractical

>>8855474
Internships

>>8825327
I fucking hate Pascal since my school years

>>8855788
What does the symbol ":=" have to do with Pascal?

>>8856046
Not with Neil DeBlaise Pascal, but Pascal programming language by Niklaus Wirth.

>>8848462
So I decided to try this out and don't feel particularly confident in my implementation. Are there any obvious improvements or straight up better, non-recursive ways of achieving this? Am a CS student who isn't memeing.

https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5b25ddb9c712f3f085afd79c1b32fb7a

>>8856174
That's like saying the symbol "2" has something to do with the C language.

>>8839049
>Implying there isn't any way some of these can't be mixed together unless it's Computer Science
>Implying Science isn't an incredibly broad term without the right prefix
baka

I'm transferring courses next year, going from mechanical engineering to a computer science discipline. At my uni, there are two compsci courses offered:
Computer Science BSc
Computer Science with Intelligent Systems Bsc

Which should I do? I feel like intelligent systems would be more maths based (which is good) rather than just the programming stuff of vanilla cs

>>8825237
low expectations to appease brainlets who want to get a meme degree

it's not that the field of compsci is worthless, it's that the way it's taught at most schools is an insult to the sort of person who should really be pursuing this field.

>>8825237
CS (the non-plebeian kind) [math]\Leftrightarrow[/math] Math (the non-plebeian kind)

>>8856668
you're not necessarily wrong
AI is a cool field, but it's not super theoretical
algorithms and data structures is also a cool option, graph theory too

can't you start in one and choose later? if you can't just do "with intelligent systems" and pick your electives right

>>8856618
I just associate standalone ":=" with Pascal. I don't know why, I use it normally in other languages.

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>>8850296
>be me
>studying programming languages at uni
>learning a coq derivative
>prof tries to say it with a french accent
>has a bad french accent and just says cock over and over again
mfw

>>8854570
I started watching anime instead.
>>8846416

>>8833874
i actually unironically like this name

'informatics' is awful

>>8856533
there are two "better" solutions

one is to print n * n characters and for each one of them you print either '*' or ' ' depending on if your current "coordinate" fits either y=x or y=(n-1)-x

the other is to create an array which you fill with ' ' and then you set the elements at y=x and y=(n-1)-x to '*'

>>8855359
I'm literally doing that for a physics exam right now; I'm just taking a 10 minute break to shitpost.
I'm going into CS though, and I'm doing well in those classes at least

>>8825401
Man what school do you go to?

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>>8857949
Not him but I was struggling with the problem before I ran into you. I can't believe it never occurred to me to just use the equation for a line to print 2 lines. Thanks I appreciate it.

https://pastebin.com/tVDatPZY

>>8825237
CS major here. It's a meme because most people don't learnthe theory and the math. Instead they just learn software development.

At any rate, it isn't a traditional experimental science. It really should be called Computational Mathematics.

>>8859478
50% sounds normal. You are still expected to learn about other things, after all. A computer science degree that's 100% mathematics wouldn't be a computer science degree at all

>>8857949
>>8856533

Thank you, approaching it like that never occurred to me.

>>8859605
CM is a strict subset of mathematics though.

>>8825237
CS not really a science as they are not really researching anything. We already understand how computer function, we built them, not so much with the universe at large.

>>8860432
CS deals with computation, not so much the construction of physical computers. and quantum computers are still poorly understood with plenty of quantum algorithms to explore

I was thinking of making a thread but figured I could ask this here first.

My fear in studying CS is that in a couple of years it might get over saturated or become a trade degree which would pretty much make feel like I wasted my time on the degree. Are these realistics fears, or is it unlikely?

Another thing is I'm thinking about studying CompEng instead but I fear employers will look down on it because you lack the knowledge of a compsci major on software as they took more classes. Could I realistically compete with CS majors as a computer engineer or will it make it harder to get employment and will it lead to lower pay? I can't help but think of computer engineer as a jack of all trades but master of none that leads to a shallow knowledge of CS and EE. What benefit is there in majoring in CE over CS? Especially if I only want to work with software.

>>8862125
software development is one of the few areas where you can really use your brain to your full potential. forget the rocket science, doctor, lawyer memes, computer science is where it's at. if you're good you can start your own company or become a "rockstar developer" literally $300k starting.

>4chan
>"rockstar developer"

>>8862274
>/sci/
>math phd $300k starting

>>8846235
How would you write a function to check for the winner? I did something similar to him for a tic tac toe game long ago when I took a Comp Sci class.

>>8862125
go to harvard and receive a proper liberal arts education
a private school degree never goes out of style
you do not want to wind up like my nerd gook ucla cs grad ironing the clothes of a harvard-oxford graduate

>>8862314
>(((harvard)))
shill harder

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/is-harvard-so-rich-that-it-should-literally-be-illegal/280002/

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Anyone here familiar with Coq?
Does this theorem basically say that there exists some P such that the law of the excluded middle holds for P? And is there a better/more clear way to prove it?

>>8862704
>Does this theorem basically say that there exists some P such that the law of the excluded middle holds for P
No, that's saying that all props satisfy the double negated LEM.

If you wanted to prove that there exists some P satisfying LEM, you could just take P = True

>>8862704
No, LEM cannot be proven without classical logic, although the double negation of LEM can. (Proving 'Double neg P implies P' also requires classical logic).

If you wish to do classical logic, i.e. a case distinction on the truth of some arbitrary proposition, you need to use the Classical module.

>>8862813
I should have used a different variable. I mean does this theorem imply that there exists some other prop Q such that LEM holds for Q?

>>8862847
>No, LEM cannot be proven without classical logic
I know that you can't prove it for all props, but does this theorem itself imply that you can prove it for some?
>If you wish to do classical logic
For now I'm just interested in intuitionistic logic.

>>8862888
>I know that you can't prove it for all props, but does this theorem itself imply that you can prove it for some?
No, it doen't. As I said, it is not provable without classical logic that double negation of P implies P.

There obviously propositions for which you can prove Q, >>8862813 already gave a trivial one, but that doesn't follow from your theorem.

Furthermore, for all propositions T that can be proven with classical logic, the double negation of T can be proven without it (but not always T).

>>8856533
NOW we're talking...