What does /sci/ think of Transhumanism?

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>>8823977
>full of nihilists
I'm a pansexual priest with a math degree. The world ain't shit, but you can make it the shit.
>"life sucks,
meh
>you die,
...eh
>get over it"

Now hold the fuck up. I'll atleast try an create genetic "drugs"(mechs also) that thru the years could expand lifetimes and vitality(long ways away).


>Transhumanism
We have a few roads:
https://forum.biohack.me/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRISPR#Mechanism
pic related

"A mighty warrior race."

>>8824383
Why would a priest be worried about transhumanism anyway? Wouldn't it be some sort of crime against nature or whatever? Also don't you believe in heaven?'

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>>8823977
Woah dude you really made me think.

>>8823977
>Transhumanism
Faggy escapism for sci-fi loving losers.

>>8824744
What, how? I didn't even meme, I literally just asked a question.

>>8824745
I'm leaning this way, too, though there is some pretty big money being thrown its way in the private sector. I honestly thing the biggest wall to it will be the shifting in political climate as the west becomes more fundamentalist. I wouldn't put it past a lot of this sort of research to get done in China.

>>8823977
Pssssssh
deep ecology is the future

>>8824756
>though there is some pretty big money being thrown its way

Don't get me wrong, it would be cool. I just don't see many of the more fansiful ideas catching on. I can see a future where we can freely select for certain traits, so the so-called designer babies, but nothing really beyond that.

>>8824804
A cursory glance at the wikipedia article makes it sound interesting but very difficult to enforce.

>>8824810
IIRC, Google has its own division for radical life extension.

>>8823977
I like some strains of transhumanism (e.g., Nick Bostrom/Future of Humanity Institute) but find that much of it is utter bullshit (e.g., Hugo de Garis is insane, Kurzweil is WAY overrated, etc.).

>>8824833
I've never really read up much on transhumanism because I'm just sort of a pessimist agnostic, but I've heard about Kurzweil a lot. I thought he was younger, actually.

Giving a quick look at Nick Bostrom's wiki is interesting; I might look into some of his stuff.

>>8824745
This.
>>8824756
The private sector throws money at dumb shit all the time. Rich people with big egos are quite likely to get duped by a swindler talking big sciency words.
>>8824756
The only thing getting done in China is stuff like genetic editing on human embryos. Basic shit that the West can't do to the same degree because of the faggy religious masses.
It has nothing to do with transhumanism, really.

>>8825027
I don't think much of the moral objection comes from the religious, actually. At least, not socially. Perhaps politically. But socially a lot of "unethical" research gets slammed by liberals, who tend to be more agnostic/atheist than conservatives.

>>8825054
You're wrong, but also kind of right. One of the main reasons embryonic stem cell research is banned in the US is because a large part of the population LITERALLY believe that the soul enters the fetus at conception and that by harvest a small clump of cells you are actually committing "murder".
Liberals usually recognize that this is bullshit. The fact that they go ape-shit over GMOs is just as bad, but unrelated to this particular point.
In Europe it's much more even, that is both leftists and conservatives are scared of muh "unethical research".

>>8824833
Kurzweil seems to be stuck on repeat. Probably the least interesting thinker in the field simply because every speech he gives is the same.

It's amazing how dull he can make it all.

>>8825071
Ah, I suppose so. I can understand their objections when thinking about it from their point of view, even if I don't agree. I think it should be like abortion in that case, then, where stem cell research is legally protected but a cultural point of contention.

>>8823977
I'm not well read but I don't see the point of making humans "better" for its own sake. Things like improved senses and extreme longevity sound great to have but I doubt it will make people happier and if they don't what is the point?

>>8825104
>reduce depression
>increase happiness/improved mood

These are just as possible. Happiness is just a chemical reaction.

>>8824383
>pansexual
>priest
I thought priest were only allowed to fuck children

>>8825120
I don't think the unhappiness problem can be solved so artificially, even knowing feelings are manipulable just like that. Modern problems such as stress and overweight are best solved by changing one's mindset, not one's body. How far do you go before your aspirations are transhumanist anyway? I'm obviously not against antidepressants and painkillers when used properly, but chronic adminstration of happiness drugs sounds dystopian.
As you'll surely see I have little real knowledge so I'm happy to discuss this.

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>>8824383
>I'm a pansexual priest with a math degree. The world ain't shit, but you can make it the shit.
This

Transhumanism can be very dangerous. Genetic modification is much safer and realistic.

t. Genetic Engineer

>>8825125
Kek
>>8825177
>t. Job Security.

Out of curiosity, how doe genetic engineering on mature specimens work? Is viral engineering a viable thing yet?

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>>8824739
>worried
No. An a god bearing heathen like me understands that we need to evolve, why? That's the default (smarter/faster/xyz). My research in into the topics is an expression of my faith. All men* created can learn. As for an afterlife...idk, live forever at this age (23) sounds nice and our species can alter so much(diet/space/perceptions), why not even the reality of death?

>>8825680
Isn't cheating death sort of against the rules in Christianity, though? That whole original sin deal.

>>8823977
It'll never catch on because people are far too squeamish and afraid of invasive technology.

>>8825750
I dunno, that seems like it might be harder to get research guinea pigs, but people are typically fine with life-saving invasive surgeries.

>>8825027
What all does the private sector chuck cash at, anyway?

>>8823977
>/sci/ seems to be full of nihilists

No.

>Transhumanism

>>>/x/

>>8826115
I always assumed /sci/ was a bunch of nihilists from the religous posts I see here getting shit. What would you say the majority of /sci/ is?

>>8826208
>Not being religious means you're a nihilist.

Nigga what?

>>8826214
Sorry, I probably just misused nihilist, then.

I meant that /sci/ tends to express atheist, possibly fatalist sort of beliefs? That there's not really much more to life than the odd fact that it happened, and that's all there is to it.

The board doesn't really seem to believe in any religion/afterlife/transhumanism and is okay with that. I mean, I don't expect them to considering those things can't be reliably proven.

>>8823977
There comes a point where in maths real numbers must always repeat.

There comes a point in physics when God himself must repeat.

The prime number.
The alpha. The omega.
The all.

>>8826611
Wat

>>8826208
>from the religous posts I see here getting shit

Creationists posts aren't religious, they're just trolls shit posting and the children that take them seriously are just as cancerous.

>>8826217
>I meant that /sci/ tends to express atheist, possibly fatalist sort of beliefs

No, that is reddit.

>>8827023
Ah, I guess I don't know /sci/'s religious/philosophical values, then. Please do enlighten me.

As far as transhumanism is concerned, I think I found another hurdle. The sorts of people most interested in it aren't very religious, for obvious reasons.

But that also leaves a lot of people that don't want to work on it unless they know for certain they can benefit from the technology. Certainly there are people who strive toward the goal regardless of their own ability to enjoy, but a lot of transhumanists don't want to know if it CAN be done or not, or even how far away we are from that supposed goal. They want to know it IS done and waiting on them, and they don't want to get involved in the actual research and development out of fear of learning it's too far away.

>>8825163
>You can make it the shit.

What did he mean by this?

>>8825120
I have treatment resistance depression so I may look into this

>>8825076
He sticks to his predictions, and his track record is decent.

>>8827621
Kurzweil is interesting because if his predictions are CORRECT most healthy individuals born around the turn of the millennium would effectively have a shot at being some of the first humans for which aging is not an issue.

But he isn't a politician, and his predictions assume a steady continuation in technological trends and a stable world political environment. I won't go /pol/ but neither of those things occur to be happening at the moment.

>>8825076
It's also interesting that his predictions, while occurring, are happening much further off than he predicted.

For example, a 20 PetaFLOP computer should cost $4,000 in 2019 according to his predictions. I'm going to assume this is in user retail cost.

But in 2017, getting 20 PetaFLOPS from AMD Vega gpu processors would cost $800,000.

Kurzweil seems to have some solid predictions but a timescale way too far off. There's just not enough money pumped into technological research to hit his goalposts.

I'm not a politician and can't argue for the validity of any fiscal plan, but Kurzweil may have been correct if the US spend, each year, the amount it spends on social security and unemployment (about 1 trillion dollars) on computational R&D.

What are some other individuals with claims like Kurzweil's?

>>8827713

but cs is for brainlets

why give so much money to brainlets to do brainlet things?

>>8827950
All of Kurzweil's predictions, from translators to immortality, depend on a consistent exponential advance in CS.

>>8827957
>All of Kurzweil's predictions, from translators to immortality, depend on a consistent exponential advance in CS.
So he's assuming constant growth rates and extrapolating years into the future, but trying to disguise it with mathematical jargon.

>>8827970
Yes.
At least, that's my understanding of it. We should have computational power at about one 200th the price it currently is now according to his own predictions.

To be fair, he said that should be the cost two years from now, but I can't think of any single paradigm shift technologically that has resulted in 200x cost efficiency in two years.

>>8827984
To clarify, this means either a 95% increase in efficiency of processing power or a 95% decrease in cost of production for that amount of processing power in 24-32 months to meet his next goalpost. And that's ignoring that we don't have true realtime translation (though you could argue current phone translating software is close enough, since true realtime translation isn't possible due to syntactic differences in language)

transhumanism is far from nihilism, its pure concentrated progress-worshipping futurism for people that dont like conventional religion

>>8828204
It seems like it's less effective than religion in that regard, though.

>>8827547
Hopefully it does you some good, Anon. I do, too, actually, but I'm hoping slowly making a few lifestyle changes and finding religion will help.

>>8823977

Idk, but I think of transgender-ism.

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>>8825743
>Christianity
>
>Not even close

>>8829683
Am I wrong?

>>8827935
Bostrom iirc
>>8829683
I thought according to most Christians death is the original punishment for all sin? That's why you must repent and seek Christ for heaven afterwards?

Maybe that priest anon can elaborate.

>>8823977
I identify as Transhuman
/sci/ should learn to respect our beliefs and check their privilege
Transhuman pride worldwide

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>>8829944
Not on their faith. I'm not hip to their culture. Mine is of an open faith.
>>8830020
newfag

>>8825158
Not the guy you replied to, but an issue I've identified in transhumanistic advancements concerning direct alterations within the human brain. If technology were indeed able to easily manipulate the sensations felt by an individual, wouldn't vast amounts of people just resort to utilizing such operations for the sake of making themselves feel happy?
I am also hold the belief that true advancement of an individual comes with struggle and hardship. In my opinion, feeling pain is necessary for one to surpass themselves.
Assuming the above are true, would the greatness and creativity of humanity end with the mass-implementations of such technologies?
Personally, I feel that there ought to be some level of restriction regarding such a distribution of an administration of this type for the sake of preserving what makes humans unique, although if humanity is certain to advance it only seems inevitable that this will be the conclusion. Thoughts?

>>8830078
>true advancement of an individual comes with struggle and hardship.
And the serene calm thru it all.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_doudna_we_can_now_edit_our_dna_but_let_s_do_it_wisely

>>8830192
That's pretty interesting.

>>8830069
Are you the priest?

>>8824832
It's more in the order of biological necessity, we can't avoid that fate if we wish for the planet to still look like it does and maintain the biodiversity it has now.

>>8830380
If humanity goes full cyborg-tier, it'll reduce a lot of our current environmental issues anyway.

>>8830393
Because we wouldn't produce contamination fastest?

On what basis?

>>8830401
A lot of our current environmental destruction is currently for farming and housing.

Humans that don't need to eat no longer require farming at all, and people with no real need to establish their own personal home in which to store things like food don't need as large a housing arrangement.

>>8823977

It is a new age techno cult for brainlet faggots

>DUDE QUANTUMS LMAO
>DUDE BRAIN TRANSFER LMAO
>DUDE MUCH CONSCIOUSNESS TRANSFER TO A COMPUTER LMAO

They are fucking retards and I used to regularly go to the futurology subreddit and make fun of them for how fucking disconnected from actual science they were until I got banned for telling a mod he should ask his mother to medicate him for his delusions.

>>8829944
Hi Christian here.
Death in the literal sense is not the punishment for sin, but rather eternal damnation.

and to those who think they can escape this fate by downloading thei consciousness or any of that kind of shit know that there is a 50% chace that will only shorten your lifetime.

If transhumanist methods work, then you will not die physically, you will be living in hell on earth.

>That's why you must repent and seek Christ for heaven afterwards?
nope. "Christians" who say they accept Christ so that they can avoid hell are larpers. Having faith in Christ requires you to actively seek and want to be with Christ, and to walk with him everyday.
You will see a true christian when they exhibit the fruits of: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Then you know the spirit is in them and that they walk with Christ.

If immortality or extended lifetime becomes a thing, and the fruit that it produces is good, then it is not objectionable to the christian faith. But if the fruit is rotten, prepare to lead yourself to your own destruction, as folly always does.

I'm fine with trans-humanism as long as the aspiration is not to become like God or better than him, then i know it is a movement of folly that will lead to annihilation. Know that all nations that act apart from God are doomed to fall, and every individual who rebels against God does not know him.
tl;dr - Christianity is not a death-cult like plebbit atheists will bullshit, and transhumanism may turn out to be hell on earth.

>>8830517
>Death in the literal sense is not the punishment for sin, but rather eternal damnation.
Mortality is literally punishment for the original sin.

>>8830508
I've stopped in on /r/futurology like twice and both times people shit on posters saying you can download consciousness

>>8830522
Christ took death's sting away.
Now what might that mean anon?

>>8830534
Not that Anon but I thought that meant people who died before Christ did didn't get sent to any afterlife (exceptions being people so OG they got literally pulled into heaven while still alive) but Christ allowed humanity to go to heaven after death, which took the sting (absolutism) of death away.

>>8830534
I bet you think eternal torment is actually a thing supported by the Bible.

>>8823977
Transhumanism is a stupid meme. Medicine is the slowest progressing science.

>>8830546
Medicine operates slow periods between groundbreaking discovery.

Also transhumanism focuses primarily on CS progression and not medical.

>>8830541
>exceptions being people so OG they got literally pulled into heaven while still alive
no. I would argue that people like moses, aaron, joseph, and many insraelites who knew God still got entry to heaven. God set a temporary system in place until he could send Christ.
In the meantime they typically went to either heaven or hell (as always).

>>8830557
Don't jews believe in an afterlife that doesn't discriminate between heaven and hell?

>>8823977
I've never heard of transhumanist nihilism.

>>8830565
Yes but that is from years of the tainting of Judaism into a perverse Neo-Judaism.

>>8825071
>Liberals usually recognize that this is bullshit.
a bill banning experimentation on fetuses was passed by obama. it has little to do with ethics and everything to do with pharmaceutical interests.

>ITT: people who think in terms of decades and do not grasp the implications of genetic research
disappointed in /sci/. transhumanism is the inevitable future of mankind.

>>8830601
disappointed in you, forgetting to think of ramifications to transhumanism

>>8830552
I'm in CS. It has nothing to do with biology. Fuck off to your meme subreddit, fag boy.

>>8830604
>muh morality
>muh humanity destroys itself
yawn

>>8830506
A lot it's nothing compared to the destruction caused by industralization.

I don't see cyborg humans that believe themselves above nature, slowing down the industralization.

>>8830613
The sort of transhumanists that believe in cybernetic augmentation 100% bank on Moore's Law (which is about to end says the industry for the 100th time) but might actually seriously be about to end this go around until a new method of computation is discovered.

Because increasing computational power has the highest possible return for solving other problems.

>>8830573
I'm assuming it's "nothing matters unless we overcome nothingness"

>>8830623
It's true to a point.

But I think humanity only "destroys itself" in a tribe-by-tribe basis historically. Transhumanism is a species-wide innovation.

>>8830732
>Transhumanism is a species-wide innovation.
how? if an isolated group of people alter themselves, are they not transhumanist?

>>8830738
They are.
I mean that, if that sort of technology becomes a thing, it'll most likely occur in nations with a capitalist economy. The price will drop as production becomes easier and become faster and faster to distribute.

>>8830750
>bourgeois rule tends towards post-scarcity conditions
Anon, I have some bad news.

>>8830782
What sort of political system do you propose? It's not perfect, but it's even harder to innovate in other systems.

Socialism is a sort of system that would be good post-scarcity but not really before.

>>8824833
Either de Garis is from another dimension or he needs to be kept sedated in an institution somewhere

>>8824744
I remember you saving this reaction image from that thread a few weeks ago

>>8830835
Kek

>>8831108
What was the thread about?

>>8830601

>inevitable
>assuming humanity might not just die before it

lol, futurism

>>8823977
>>/x/

>>8832596
Not /x/ depending on what you consider to be transhumanism. Reactive prosthetics are already a thing, for example.

>>8830508
>until I got banned for telling a mod he should ask his mother to medicate him for his delusions.
You're doing God's work anon.

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>>8830358
Yes.

>>8832998
How was Easter?

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>>8823977
Define "Transhumanism" first.

>>8830078
I agree that the transhumanist movement is indeed mostly hedonistic. Aside from perpetual artificial happiness, it also promotes concepts like pseudo-immortality. To me it sounds awful to live a thousand years, as if such a society can even remotely know the concept of freedom, both of the mental and the legal kind.

>>8833494
That's one thing I dislike about transhumanity.

A society that becomes quasi-immortal will inherently become brutal. Think about it. Currently, everybody dies. Even if something is punishable by death, if you believe in it enough, you might do it anyway.

Now imagine a world where the authorities that be offer you eternity (Or at least a pretty damn long time) so long as you do absolutely everything they say. You could live forever, but only if you play by their rules to the letter. Dissident thought, disruptive behavior, all punishable by death.

Are you even human enough at that phase for God to accept you when you inevitably piss off the wrong Overseer and get deactivated?

>>8833563
>Are you even human enough at that phase for God to accept you when you inevitably piss off the wrong Overseer and get deactivated?
Wow...
God may deny these people acess to him (heaven) when they choose pseudo-immortality. So they will live hell on earth until they are unjustly killed, then they will suffer hell ever-after.

Truly trans-humanism is Pandora's box.

>>8830508
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLb9EIiSyG8

If only you knew how close we really are...

>>8834412
If only you had the capacity to think about the repercussions...

why is it that trans-humanists don't think about the repercussions to technological advancement?

>>8834422
Where us the persons soul?
Where are their memories?

We put memories in the back of our brain.
We call them up via the prefrontal cortex that deals in input and outputs data.

270 Petabytes give or take malnutrition, error and damage.

Centers of decryption and algorithms for calculating distance, colour and size.

Take the pre frontal and the memory bank alone and you have a persons "Soul".
Where to put such precious data?

Transhumanism via mechanics...
=========================
To make that "Soul" Live eternally....
I could copy it and put it in a machine.
But then there would be two people.
One in the machine and you the original.
That's not immortality. That is a more advanced version of giving your kids all the pre-recorded tapes of your life so they can learn. A ghost. A clone. Meanwhile the real you ages and dies. The you inside the machine if he does not know this would go insane. To do this kind of procedure you would have to go in knowing what it really did. That is not what you want.

Then there is the biological option.
I could replace the dying/damaged brain cells with rejuvenated stem cells with the same DNA as the subject in exchange for electricity but the machine would have to be precise and delicate and the brain fully scanned and documented.

>>8834422
>biological option
>>8834527

Oh...Hello....A solution to death.
-----------------------------------------------
Transhumanism via biological manipulation...

The brain cells you have use a relay system.
Every time an old one dies it or they as a group pass on relevant or traumatic information to the younger ones. They die. The rest stay on for a month. They die. Teach the others. Rinse repeat. Isn't it ironic that the best way to gain eternal life is to understand death in the microscopic and the macroscopic?

This is not perfect since as you know memories fade and become vague over time and time heals a broken heart. But it is what you and I call "Life"

However, the proposed solution I have would give you consistency like no other as you could use it in your own body or a mechanical one for as long as there is a machine that can rejuvenate and transfer new cells efficiently.

Either way. It is bound to happen eventually.
At least you know that when the juice is gone the person is freed from their bodily/mechanical prison. According to THIS universes laws of course.

"Scientists are only good at realizing how big God really is."

>>8834527
>>8834530
that is not waht i mean!
are you both brain-dead?

>political repurcussions
people like to make a quick buck, so why would they not leave in their contracts the demand that your body belongs to them once your mind has been uploaded? What's more, the government can seize control (due to the Orwellian globalist future we are heading into) and simply kill (shut-down) those with dissenting opinions. etc.

As for the theological issues, they are already plain as day: if your soul is connected to your consciousness, and "uploading" your consciousness is not just an instant execution, then you will be stuck down here forever and ever, never getting rest as you will never sleep. Hell on earth.

>Take the pre frontal and the memory bank alone and you have a persons "Soul".
Where to put such precious data?
you would have a persons personality, not their soul though.

>That's not immortality. That is a more advanced version of giving your kids all the pre-recorded tapes of your life so they can learn. A ghost. A clone. Meanwhile the real you ages and dies. The you inside the machine if he does not know this would go insane. To do this kind of procedure you would have to go in knowing what it really did. That is not what you want.
that is a huge issue that we may face. We don't know if this will work out how we intend and not just end a human life preemptively.

>Then there is the biological option.
I could replace the dying/damaged brain cells with rejuvenated stem cells with the same DNA as the subject in exchange for electricity but the machine would have to be precise and delicate and the brain fully scanned and documented.
but now the brain is stuck there, and there is still a way to die or receive brain damage.

>Every time an old one dies it or they as a group pass on relevant or traumatic information to the younger ones.
this is not how brain cells work. They remain permenently and the body decays while they prune unused connections.

>>8834530
>Either way. It is bound to happen eventually.
i think that is a logical fallacy. we don't even know if these transhumanist concepts will come to fruition.

>"Scientists are only good at realizing how big God really is."

What does that mean?

>>8834578
>his is not how brain cells work. They remain permenently and the body decays while they prune unused connections.

No. Brain cells do die. They are longer lasting than the average blood cell but they do die...The waste is removed during REM sleep. When you can grasp the scope of the mechanizations of the human body it becomes quite terrifying.

>It was bound to happen
They will come to fruition. Because they already have. I have seen the first cracks and understand the scope of what is to come.

>"Scientists are only good at realizing how big God really is."

This means that all is possible when the laws of our universe are applied in a logical and orderly way.

Why is transhumanism accepted as the future but transgenderism is not?

Isn't the point that technology will allow you to bypass what nature has decided for you?

>>8834632
We still got other problems to consider:
>>8834578

>>8834636
Wouldn't be easier to just plug into a virtual reality game and choose a sexy trap avatar? You might actually get hit on this way.

>>8834658
Isn't the point of transhumanism to replace genetic determination with human design? It seems to me like the precursors of transhumanism already exist.

Transsexuals who are not satisfied with the sex they were forced to be modify their bodies to be more like the opposite sex
Bodybuilders who are not satisfied with the genetic limits of their abilities take steroids give themselves artificially augmented strength and power.
Others who are not satisfied with their genetic facial or body structure get plastic surgery to suit their desires.

Aren't these kinds of people just getting a head start on what transhumanism will bring? Why should they wait?

>>8834646
Transgenderism is accepted as future however I do not see many people getting an operation to get a womb made of their own DNA.
The point of Woman being, Womb-man. Man with a womb. The ability to reproduce...

Body builders are messing with the delicate machinery of the human body, natures tradeoff being that the temporary boost in musculature ends up exhausting cell regeneration thus susceptible them to various cancers and such.
Nature is always looking for equivalent exchange.

Plastic surgery is harmful as it blocks skin pores.

The reason they are wrong is that they ignore Nature. They want solutions without considering the delicate nature of the human being or their bodies. They likely never picked up a biology book and considered...hey...these tiny fragile things...these cells....they make up me...
So many billions of cells die every year.... look to the Ant and see yourself a giant. Look to the moon and see yourself an Ant.

>>8834693
I don't think you understand human choice.

If a man wants to be a woman, I would imagine he wants the ability to reproduce as a woman. But if he really wants to be a woman, surely he would choose being an infertile woman over being a man.

Surely the bodybuilder on steroids thinks that the benefits outweighs the risks. Same with the person getting plastic surgery. Feeling happy and confident with their body, feeling attractive etc. is more important than having natural pore.

Transhumanism is exactly that, transcending nature

>>8834672
I don't even want to be a woman, but I'd get a sex change if I could look convincingly like a perfect 10/10 supermodel so that chad thundercock will want to fuck me.

>>8834700
>Transhumanism is exactly that, transcending nature
and that is the folly of transhumanism too. Nature has an order and law to it, to defy that will lead to our destruction.

Thin about this: If i opted to become i female athro-goat then would i be commiting an act of bestiality if i had sex with a goat? Would it be an act of bestiality if a had sex with a human?
What's more, tearing down the seperation between man and beast leads to greater horror/

>>8834707
We have been trying to trick nature since we invented tools. We will never stop trying to do this. It's an integral part of what we are.

>>8834700
>Feeling attractive is more important than having pores.

You know what happens to skin that cannot breathe?
Have you ever watched the movie "Gold Finger" 007?

>>8834707
>if i opted to become i female athro-goat then would i be commiting an act of bestiality if i had sex with a goat?
Yes because you engaged in sex with a creature that cannot give clear and concise consent, you are taking advantage of a creature with lesser intelligence and communicative ability. The fact that you're a goat monster doesn't change the scenario.

>Would it be an act of bestiality if a had sex with a human?
You're still a human mind, if you have consenting sex with a regular human there is no issue.

>What's more, tearing down the seperation between man and beast leads to greater horror/
Give me a rational explanation for why this is

>>8834710
but we have never defied nature in any true sense. Instead we utilized nature to our benefit.
Transhumanism will outright defy nature (as industrialism has) and will lead to grander consequences than what industrialism has.

>>8834712
You don't get to decide what is more important to an individual. If a person who has had plastic surgery has a small amount of nonfunctioning pores, how does that negatively affect you or society as a whole? But the quality of life for that person could have a dramatic net increase because of their decision.

>>8834716
>Give me a rational explanation for why this is
man has only had the aspiration to be greater because they have known that they are above or greater than the beasts of the earth. For no mere animal has built towers reaching heaven-ward. With Nihilism and Secularism we started believing the lie that humans are just animals, taking for granted our achievments and wasting them. Now if we cease to have that seperation in practice as opposed to theory then what are we?

>>8834720
You do realize that instead of "plastic" surgery we can use rejuvenated skin cells and bone grafts.
No more embryos. No more plastic.

>>8834725
Of course I realize that, that's the logical next step.

>>8834716
really with the
>tearing down the seperation between man and beast leads to greater horror
i was more leaining to the possiblity of the island of dr moreau. Once one changes their body to that of an animal, what is to keep them from desiring to change their brain as well?
Nothing stopped 1 piercing from becoming 100.

>>8834724
Manimals.
I think we are all just looking for a way to either stop death or prove God exists.
If you want proof of God, just watch as we make death obsolete.

>>8834716
I suppose the animal-huamn seperation decay fear is unfounded, but it is derived from the designer baby issue. If parents change their children to match the "normal" for that society, if people desire to go further and further into that madness, then "normal" may be far from what we consider it to be now.

>>8824383
do serious biohacker people look down on people who'd do it just cause the shit you can do is pretty neat?

>>8834724
Humans are cold, and clothe themselves and light fires
Humans want easier sources of food and plant crops and raise livestock
Humans want to express themselves, communicate preserve and pass down knowledge, and invent language and writing

Any line you draw to say that "progress cannot pass this point" is arbitrary and meaningless.

>>8834719
I don't see whare a clear dividng line between these terms you just made up is supposed to be.

All you can say is that some things we do are good and some things we do are are bad. Whether what we do is good or bad depends on context. Some of what we do can be good or bad or both good and bad depending on what it affects and how it affects it and who is perceiving these effects and whether they are perceiving them to be good or bad. You can't make this distinction (easily). You'd have to write at last 500 different thesis dissertations on this topic to really illucidate it. You can start right here right now. GO!

>>8834747
The biggest irony of all is that you guys see it...yet most of you are atheists.

If humans get advanced enough and become God-like then it will all come full circle.

God made us, we became God, God made us, we became God and we get stuck in a logic loop for eternity.

>>8834771
How is that a problem?

>>8834771
Maybe that's just how it is...

>>8834732
>If you want proof of God, just watch as we make death obsolete.
remember when nations fell by the whim of God? because they boasted against him and decreed that they will surpass him?

>Any line you draw to say that "progress cannot pass this point" is arbitrary and meaningless.
those three points were not morraly counter-intuitive. Designer babies on the other hand...

>>8834747
>You can start right here right now. GO!
i would rather not write a dissertation right now.
I feel trans-humanist technologies can do a world of good if used right and with caution. Genetic editing of life-threatening diseases is fine, but then that leads to the desire to get rid of what we deem as "mental illness" and then everyone is the same mentally (no large variety in brain function). this temptation will lead ot us eventually creating impossibly "beautiful" babies that have ridiculously high IQ's, all look the damn same, and are all as charismatic. Essentially humanity will become this homoginous soup of the same shit everywhere. Then as the concepts of beauty change (fat is beautiful and shit like that) certain bodily or sexual features will be over-emphasised, within a few generations we will have hardly recognizable humans.

My largest problem with transhumanism is the arrogance an pride against God. To think we can become God is foolhardy, and will lead to their own termination.

>>8834771
Or humanity pretends to be like God, then God comes down and humanity realizes that it is about as close to being God as they were when they were monkeys.

>>8834771
>>8834773
>>8834775
This is blowing my mind a little bit.

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>>8834771

Seems to be a little piece missing in that loop- namely the enormous amount of suffering present in the human condition....

>>8834776
>My largest problem with transhumanism is the arrogance an pride against God. To think we can become God is foolhardy, and will lead to their own termination.
What's your logical rational for this?

>this temptation will lead ot us eventually creating impossibly "beautiful" babies that have ridiculously high IQ's, all look the damn same, and are all as charismatic
How is this a problem if it's what people want?

>>8834778
I think of "god" in the figurative "any power with sufficient power to create" sense. It's very possible we could reach this stage millennia from now. It's very possible that an alien intelligence had reached that stage and that's why we're here.

>>8834782
>How is this a problem if it's what people want?
because what people want is rarely ever the right thing. I know from what history has shown and what i have experienced.

>What's your logical rational for this?
Every time humans thought they could surpass God, it ended up only destroying itself in the process.

>>8834787
Not really God in my book if their existence began and ends with relation to the physical.

>>8834781
I don't think it's a problem. We're an intelligent species. We don't give a flying fuck about ants or cows. There is no reason why an intelligence capable of creation should care about us in my view.

>>8834791
>I know from what history has shown and what i have experienced.
Please cite historical examples. Please do not cite your anecdotal experiences.

>Every time humans thought they could surpass God, it ended up only destroying itself in the process.
Please cite examples

>>8834795
>We're an intelligent species.
>putting this much faith in humanity...

>>8834794
The only thing that could fit that bill is the eternal expanse that gives rise to big bang-like phenomena.

>>8834776
The reason the Tower of Babel failed was because they went on the attack.
They did not ask for permission to win.
They just decided to do it in pride.
The first sin.
The reason we are rushing for eternal life on the other hand, is fear. Fear of losing the precious gift that was bestowed upon us. This life. Wretched as it may be, is beautiful.

Why with our consciousnesses forever encapsulated in a machine that we can manoeuvre from we could guide the human race to the heavens.
We can be like the Angels. Not God but our wisest could then preserve themselves and see their sons sons sons on earth.

Oh....man....
I gotta come clean guys. There is a way to really fuck up the timespace continuum and I discovered it.

>>8834781
Which was the driving force behind all our scientific endeavours and may be the lead up to what is coming next.

Suffering makes strong wills. Without suffering one cannot test themselves.

>>8834800
Compared to ants. We're probably far less than ants to this thing or things and it's just our hubris that makes us believe our problems are important and that a higher intelligence should care about them.

>>8834796
>people want sex
>sexual revolution
>now perversion is the new norm, and damage to oneself is the path to sexual pleasure. Go see deviant-art fetishes if you want an example. Fetishes exploded out during the sexual revolution.

>Every time humans thought they could surpass God, it ended up only destroying itself in the process.
>tower of babbel
>pride and the thought that they could surpass God
>God didn't even lift a finger.
ultimately the sin of pride is damaging to it's bearer because our existence is null and void of meaning if we don't have a universal standard of purpose (to be with God).

>>8834807
Which brings us to revelations.
The battle of pride must be won with humility.

>>8834802
So a true void or one bearing information?
Information itself is still physicall existent in a quantum definition. I mean something that requires to physical existence of beginning to it. Something that can exist outside of reality itself, and which can exist on it's own.

If the void before the big bang is your idea, then sure.

>>8834803
>The reason we are rushing for eternal life on the other hand, is fear. Fear of losing the precious gift that was bestowed upon us. This life. Wretched as it may be, is beautiful.
and once we cannot die then we will boast that nothing can kill us, and will mock God out of our own foolish pride.

>>8834813
The God of The Omniverse.

>>8834813
Neither. It's more like chaos.

>>8834807
>now perversion is the new norm, and damage to oneself is the path to sexual pleasure.
This is just you subjective view on the subject. The ultimate irony is you are the one playing God by dictating what people should and should not be allowed to do

>tower of babbel
Citing myth has no place in a rational discussion, no matter what moral it teaches.

sci-fi nonsense for delusional techno-utopians who believe we solve any problem if we just throw enough technology at it, laws of physics be damned

>>8834819
Yes, essentially that.
I believe that God created This universe as the first one, and is currently preparing another for those who remain faithful.

>>8834820
even chaos requires and existent frame of reference anon. I mean what predates chaos itself.

>>8834816
Ah ah ah.....you forget.
Eternal life does not mean invincibility. I was thinking along the lines of stasis chambers where we can chill for a few centuries while playing in virtual reality.

>>8834821
It has merit so long as a useful conjecture can be extrapolated from it and applied in a logical manner. In this case that Pride MUST be substituted for something else when perusing something so grand as eternal life on earth.
It is a multifaceted persuit requiring an understanding of biology, machinery, timing and mathematics alike. The ability to stop ageing.

>>8834821
>This is just you subjective view on the subject.
BDSM anon. one of the most popular of these perversions.

>The ultimate irony is you are the one playing God by dictating what people should and should not be allowed to do
I am working exactly withing the right and authority God has allowed me to have. Sexual perversion is shown to be damaging to it's user, and often counter to what is best for them. My Christian freedom gives me the access to see the fruits of an activity and determine if it is right or wrong based on those fruits. The fruits of sexual deviance is perverse, so it is not a good thing. Trans-humanism can produce good fruits, but those can also become rotten if we do not limit what can and cannot be done. We already set limits on what scientists can legally do with the Geneva convention.

>Citing myth has no place in a rational discussion, no matter what moral it teaches.
Europe. It stood tall for centuries when it held Christian faith, then it became secular and has started to fall apart.
Sodom and Ghomorah. Babylon, Egypt, etc.

>>8834829
So then escapism into a false reality?
See second life if you want to see the hell that produces.

>>8834844
>BDSM anon. one of the most popular of these perversions.
What's wrong with BDSM?

Can't religionfags just fuck off

>>8834856
>What's wrong with BDSM?
It's abuse parading under the facade of legitimate love.

>>8834847
No no.
Okay look.
Hear me out.
Brain goes into the machine.
Machine is connected to the internet and brain can inhabit anything connected to it.
Tadaa! You are now as fast as light.
A real Lucifer.
*Badum tish*

>>8834859
>Brain goes into the machine.
>Machine is connected to the internet
so if i SQL inject i can kill people.
Yet another flaw anon, NSA want to control, so they will force there to be a back-door, even better they could attempt to reprogram you.

>A real Lucifer.
Morning star is real Lucifer, get your astronomy straight anon.

>>8834859
>>8834847
Which means, robots.
You can now inhabit the body of any robot connected to you.
Big ones, small ones, all fully capable of moving stuff around and such....playing with the kids, etc etc,
The brain cannot be hacked as it is biological, only the computer parts can fall apart etc etc

>>8834867
>The brain cannot be hacked as it is biological, only the computer parts can fall apart etc etc
If the wire's connected to the brain can receive information in electric signals from and to the brain, then the signals to the brain can be overloaded and kill you, or instead given false info.

>>8834874
That is why the signals must be limited by the size of the wire and multiple precautions put in place. But it is feasible...The real question is....
Who has done it already?

>There are people who are shitposting from a high tech immortality lab as we speak

Fml

>>8834867
>The brain cannot be hacked as it is biological
>I have no clue what plasticity is

>>8834876
Of course. You can brute force it via trauma, maybe some soft persuasion but in the end...
It is all down to goo-

>>8834858
What if someone legitimately loves abuse and seeks it from a consenting partner?

>>8834875
>That is why the signals must be limited by the size of the wire
then the wire will just get hotter due to decreased cross-section for the same current.

>and multiple precautions put in place.
Precautions don't mean shit if the NSA demands a back-door.
once a back-door exists, its only a matter of time until hackers can access it.

>>8834882
>What if someone legitimately loves abuse
no one loves abuse anon. It turns them on but it is not love. That is why it is classified as a fetish and not a sexuality in the DSM-5.

>>8834884
>man and woman love each other
>man and woman both prefer regular missionary sex as their sexual interest
>man and woman have recreational missionary sex as an expression of their love, strengthening of their bond, as well as a fun way to pass the time

>man and woman love each other
>man and woman both prefer bondage and domination/submission as their sexual interest
>man have woman have bdsm style sexual escapades as an expression of their love, strengthening of their bond, as well as a fun way to pass the time

There's no difference. You just lack empathy

>>8834889
>Ignoring the fact that sex in itself is already a horrible thing that involves a murder race where one sperm cell out of around 10,000 soon to be dead ones get to the egg and one or two survives.
also that we age an thousands of cells die all the time every day.

This is why we were badly need an upgrade.

>>8834889
>You just lack empathy
nice ad hominem anon.

>domination/submission is still abusive, you just don't want to admit that your kink is perverse.

>>8834882
it's called masochism as in bdsM durr

>>8834856
fucking degenerate.

>>8834859
>>8834864

Yeah, the big issue with internet-connected cyberbrains is that they'd be hackable/a lot less secure than biological brains unless there were a way to physically turn on and off wifi.

>>8835029
>unless there were a way to physically turn on and off wifi.
sorry anon. the NSA won't allow it.
They already input chips into computer key-boards and wifi-towers in order to track your activity. They won't allow an un-hackable brain and will do everything in their power to make one. Welcome to the new age anon.

>>8835038
An elite /g/entooman can avoid those things as it is.I wouldn't be surprised if, far enough in the future, FLOSS software/transparency in components would happen eventually.

>>8834693
did you just unironically say lifting causes cancer?

The army ruined my body. I want a new one.

>>8835107
should have been a POG.

choose your rate, choose your fate.

>>8835107
I think servicemen will be the first to see augmentations (which will likely get removed and replaced with something civilian-grade after your tour is over)

>>8835110
The POG I know are so confusing politically. They're like vehemently anti second amendment.

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>>8824383
What kind of priest is allowed to have a sex drive? Genuinely curious.

People who love transhumanism need to realize

Whoever creates the most powerful brain will dominate. You will be assimilated into their machine.
All life you know and love will be wiped away

Why would anyone want this? I want a future for humans, not inhumans

>>8835412
this

>>8835416
Taking a page from Kurzweil's book, he says post "singularity", that is, assimilation of humanity into a machine network, all processing power will be dedicated to seeing if.
>New universes can be created and entered from our own
>Entropy can be stopped

In which case, it sounds kinda shitty. It it's impossible, we reached transhumanity and then spent all that extra time trying to solve a problem with no answer. If it's possible, we don't know if we'd find a solution in time anyway. So there's a 2/3 change of becoming an immortal processor-slave that dies with the universe.

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Cybernetic augmentation, gene editing, cloning, and synthetic consciousness are based and should be embraced. But that idea of uploading every single person's mind onto one giant network is retarded. There's just way too much that could go horribly wrong with that, especially while tech industry is still profit-driven.

>>8835222
>servicemen will be the first to see augmentations
>the military intentionally sends people into mine fields just to have an excuse to rebuild them into cyborg super-soldiers

>>8835412
Humans are literal biological computers.
Everything we make is by default human.

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>>8834858
>>8834884
You do understand how a couple acts in the bedroom and how they act in their day-to-day lives are different, right? Most couples don't talk dirty or wear lingerie in public, so why would BDSM carry over into personal life? The vast majority don't take it that seriously.

And it's not abuse at all if it's consensual and mutually enjoyable. Relatively mutual, of course. The masochist is the one who gets the much, much bigger endorphin rush.

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>>8824383
>I'm a pansexual priest

>>8836286
Kek.

>>8835076
>with steroids

I was in /tg/ sci-fi thread and argued that modern humans will go extinct because genetic engineering means modern humans will be out-competed by genetically engineered humans and/or the intelligent machine successors
The other guy was a retard who said humans will always be the same.

That moron has made me disregard anything the anti-transhumanist crowd says because they all seem to be arguing from the perspective that humanity will remain the same forever ( even in the case of stuff that would cause humanity to change ANYWAYS, like long term space travel ) and rationalizing why nothing will change after the fact.

>>8824383
>I'm a pansexual priest with a math degree
>PRIEST
>MATH DEGREE
Why in Hell would you get a math degree when you're gonna become a priest?/Why would you become a priest if you have a math degree?

>>8836286
Looks like me, less silver tho.
>priest-san

>>8836510
there are many theologically inclined mathematicians in history. consider pascal, bayes.

>>8836486
A lot of transhumanists think tech will progress so quickly that humans won't have time to change much by the time they are mostly cybernetic.

>>8836540
But it was an anti-transhumanist I was arguing against.
He was literally saying humans would stay as they are right now forever.

>>8836544
Oh, that's dumb. But they will look relatively similar for the 10,000 years the species is predicted to last before extincting itself according to Wikipedia.

>>8835628
>You do understand how a couple acts in the bedroom and how they act in their day-to-day lives are different, right?
yes. That is part of the marriage crisis. You need to love your parter as much in the bedroom as outside of it. Sex is not the pinnicle of love and yet most couples epect it to be, which is why divorce rates are sky high.

>And it's not abuse at all if it's consensual and mutually enjoyable.
It is abuse. Abuse is intentionally inflicting physical or verbal harm unto another, that is eactly waht BDSM is. Just because something is enjoyable doesn't mean it is good: arsenic tastes really sweet, but it give you cancer; cocaine gives you a great high, but withdrawal is life-threatening.

Face it anon, you just want an excuse to inflict harm unto your spouse so that you can get hard, there is no love in this relationship.

>>8824756
You mean due to islamification?

>>8836510
He studied to become a Wizard and then went directly to the Priest class... That is like....the most wasted potential for a Math major....ever.
Why?

Are you spying on the enemy or something?

kek

>>8825054
This, gene editing is held up by leftists not wanting to accept eugenics.

>>8836966
Not necessarily but yes.

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Preist-san here.
I become ordained during Sophomore year during my Network Admin. classes in first uni. Always been 20% better at logic & art so being a priest (powers of pathos/ethos) Became the perfect guise to explore Higher Ed Maths (logos) and Advance/Day-Day Social Engineering (art&science). You can stay under the rock as long as you want but just remember..Huge Oceans are just a bunch of meshed up Tiny Ponds.

>>8838131
>You can stay under the rock as long as you want but just remember..Huge Oceans are just a bunch of meshed up Tiny Ponds.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.
Also Preist-san do you believe in God?

>>8835492
nah. the military will just sucker in the wounded as they arrive in the hospitals.
>hey sgt, want a new cyborg body?
>just join the rangers and it is yours
then you find out that they own you until you are too mentally gone to put that body to use. then you get put into a VA home as a cripple.

>>8838358
priest, even.

>>8838386
Sounds like something the government would do.

>>8836967
What enemy?

Also there's a lot of religious people in math and sciences. IIRC, a lot study it because it's considered respectful to develop an understanding of God's creation.

>>8836962
I thought you'd just get straight poisoned by arsenic before you have to worry about cancer risk.

Also idk, it's hard to say that a married couple with a shared fetish can't love one another independent of that fetish.

>tfw it feels like "mind uploading" is just around the corner
Why aren't more people jumping into neuroscience research?

>>8828207


in all fairness religion has had a head start.

How long has all this transhumanist bullshit been around for?

like a100 years at best? really probably 40-50 years?

I HOPE that we CAN have the CHOISE to live FOREVER but then again, i also hope to magically grow my cock to a meter in length within 10 short days.

desu i will die, but what the fuck can i do?

>>8841583
What I mean is, even if transhumanism HAPPENS, it can't really guarantee all the things religion can. Each answer with transhumanism raises more questions. What would an immortal society behave like? Can humans/transhumans mentally cope with immortality? Even if we stop aging, what about cyberattacks? What about entropy? You have to actively continue overcoming obstacles to attain forever in a transhumanist narrative. In religion (at least Western ones), you don't do all of that. In Western religion, you die, but that's fine because after you do, you're no longer bound by our physical laws and a higher power takes care of eternity for you.

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>>8834776

i dont want 2 b liek god, i wan tu live 4 ever

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>>8841603

>it can't really guarantee all the things religion can

on second thought, transhumanism is nothing like religion in the first place.

in my opinion you can be a transhumanist and believe in god.

I mean if you get a robot body it doesnt mean god isnt real.

But god hasn't done shit for anyone ever (Bee cos hes not r3al).

memes aside i doubt that existence of god is even possible, it just makes no sense.

desu a universe with no god may just be LESS terrifying than one with god...... or not

MAN FUCK THIS SHIT, i'd be ok with living a normal life, but not aging. Aging fucking sucks.

>>8841603
That's because transhumanism is a dream of something that we might actually make happen, rather than a wish fulfillment fantasy. Confusing the two will lead to absurd conclusions very quickly.

>>8841405
If they can love one another independent of the fetish, then why do the fetish to begin with?
If they cannot love one another independent of the fetish, then it was never love to begin with.

I have a furry fetish, doesn't mean my marriage ( if i ever get one) will be based in fur-suits and disgusting shit like that, nor would i marry a animal-person as that would be an abomination unto God.
Marriage is a covenant before God before it is a seual relationship, if you cannot love your spouse independent of sex then don't marry them. Homosexuality had corrupted the concept of marriage by making it a matter of publicity and not of any meaningful covenant between God , man, and woman.

>>8841686
> it just makes no sense.
can you be more specific?

>but not aging.
the quality of a man increases as they age. Age makes wine better quality and likewise as you age you become quality as your personality becomes more rich. Ageing is a part of life too and cannot be prevented indefinitely.
Best suggestion i got that i could likely do now with some funding is to extend inherent telomere length, thus extending potential lifetime while still allowing the capacity to die at some point, essentially postponing the inevitable without outright damning you to remain in this corrupted world for all of time.

>in my opinion you can be a transhumanist and believe in god.
This is true only so long as you put God before humanity. If you do it the other way then you are just a transhumanist who happens to believe in a god.

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/sci/ just hates transhumanism because they like to be knee-jerk contrarian, like /a/, and get assblasted at anyone not acknowledging that the meaning of existence is being locked in a room and labouring away at pure math.

Everyone shut up about transhumanist philosophy.

Lets discuss how we should improve the human body.

For starters I believe we should find a way to reduce the hold of our lower simian impulses on your mind, this would surely put a stop to most violent crime on earth.

Next our legs should be modified for land movement, compared to the archosaurs they are garbage and a meh job at best.

Reworking the layout of circulatory system would also be better, and be redesigning our lungs to get more oxygen from the air too.

Perhaps we could figure out a way to create a new type of immune system that would always work unlike this biological crap that only resists low tier illnesses.

Regeneration of skin,fingers and lower limbs. Along with fixing our eyes to make things like myopia never exist again.

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>>8841945
>For starters I believe we should find a way to reduce the hold of our lower simian impulses on your mind, this would surely put a stop to most violent crime on earth.
We can start by culling niggers

>>8841949
I am talking about sociopaths, the only issue with them is for some reason they are wired to cause suffering and pain for pleasure making them cancer to civilization.

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>>8841945
>Lets discuss how we should improve the human body.
Posted about this before: Pic related , and/or giving humans an more /fit/ push is the closest we're going to get, especially since pic related happened already in a way throughout humanities history. Borg-ing ourselves(mechanical transhumanism) and playing Tetris with genes (genetic engineering) still have a long way to go as well as problems and risks. A more /fit/, human, and seeing what we can do with what we already have could do the job and can especially realistically be done now. Especially regular people just plain currently getting fitter.

Also evolution's still ongoing etc. etc.

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>>8842203
More info on the concept and some Joe feats
>http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/respect-threads/48059-joseph-newton-respect-thread

And a regular guy who can relatively do the same shits Joe can but who's not related to him or his family at all and wasn't eugenicis'd and it's pointed out in the series and even by Joseph himself normal people can do what he does if they wanted to

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>>8841651
>4 ever

>>8842203
Interesting but odd pic.

>>8835038
Use a keyboard without these magic "chips" then.
>Wifi-towers
I'm sure you're not talking out of your ass about this.