What does this board think of veganism? And why is it a shitty cult?

>>8773048
>be me
>vegan because i can't stop driving my car but I can take the bus sometimes and not support the next largest emitter of greenhouse gasses
>go to some vegan fest because why not
>everyone is a hippy dippy save the animals type
>speakers encouraging people to go out and spread the message to make real change
>leave
>stop by an indian restaurant on the way home and have some tasty ass samosas

I hate that idiots sometimes make the right choices, too. but just because some people treat it like a shitty cult doesn't make it inherently a shitty cult.

humans naturally eat meat. modern humans maybe eat too much meat but it is good for you in moderation

>>8773067
Then why identify as a vegan when you could practise the concept of veganism without ever calling yourself a vegan?

>>8773074
I agree with you, everything in moderation.
Maybe the extreme veganism is the issue.

>>8773085
>Then why identify as a vegan when you could practise the concept of veganism without ever calling yourself a vegan?
Why would you refuse to call yourself what you are?

I'm mostly vegetarian. When I do consume animal products, I either produce them myself (hunting or fishing) or purchase them from a trusted source. A friend raises chickens and keeps bees, another raises pork, and another runs a dairy. They all do things the right way, low density of animals, fed a healthy diet, minimal antibiotics, chickens free-range, cows pastured and not in a feedlot, etc.

I probably eat meat or fish two or three times a month, and eat eggs or milk a few times a week. Most of my protein comes from oats from the store and beans from my garden, supplemented by amaranth grain and leaves, spinach leaves, and kale from my garden.

>>8773048
The average vegetarian probably eats healthier than the average omnivore because they HAVE to put a thought into what they eat. I have great respect for them, because they live a complicated livestyle and serve as an example for people who eat too much meat. ("See, that guy can live without eating meat at all, so you don't need it every single day either")


Veganism is pointless in my opinion, they are just hipster vegetarians.

>>8773318
Interesting, I like the idea of being self sufficient but that is another topic. I think eating animal products isn't bad especially when it is done like this, good care for the animals and not excessively.
My culture is different but just wondering, what about fish?

>>8773327
I also respect vegetarians, I also respect vegans that don't talk about it or don't classify themselves as "vegan".
Although you're right that vegetarians put more thought into their diet, there is still dietician/nutritionists that give public advice, for example the food pyramid, on good guidelines to follow in your personal diet. And just by eating everything in moderation you can stay healthy too, in my opinion. I don't put any thought in what I eat, I do know that I don't eat very healthy though(lots of snacks). But I'm still very healthy and have no health issues. I'm therefore really skeptical about these diet programs.
Ofcourse eating healthier is important, but I feel that genetics play a big role too often times.

But yeah my point is that you don't have to put much thought in the food you eat to be generally healthy if you just follow guidelines.

>>8773318
id like this to be my diet but im too lazy to procure meats so i'm a vegetarian instead

i drink a lot of milk though

fucking love milk

i dont get how people go on about how they tried not eating meat but they dont have enough money or time to do it. i have no money and no time and it actually makes stuff a lot easier.

>>8773074
humans also naturally play with their own feces

>>8773048
Since the 90% of the energy is wasted when it goes from plants into animals, it's more efficient to just eat the plants directly. So veganism makes sense and is efficient. However the quality of life is reduced because meat tastes so good.

>>8773074
Modern humans eat too much eat. Moderation aspect doesn't work with modern meat consumption habits.

Literally 70% of America is FAT.

>>8773636
My biology professor said that America is always number 1 when it comes to consuming resources

It's natural to eat meat. Also, vegan food is fucking expensive.

>>8773666
Americans eat ~3800 calorie diet per day

A diet of 2000 calorie is recommended for healthy weight/size for average person.

US is eating roughly double what a normal person should eat.

>>8773681
I only consume 700 calories a day. I am 6'2 but only 140 pounds.
I think I'm anorexic.

>>8773669
>oats: 2,148 kcal/dollar, 72g protein/dollar
>chicken: 239 kcal/dollar, 50g protein/dollar

you're retarded

>>8774135
Oats suck tho and chicken is good that's why niggers (creatures with exceptionally low iq) like it so much

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>>8773074
>humans naturally eat meat

Using the argument that something is natural does not make it auto-valid. In my opinion they are auto-invalid.

Many apes naturally are omnivores which does not mean they have to be because some god passed a law which states they need to eat meat because it's natural.

Also when you hear someone saying we must eat meat because it contains vitamin B12: Eat shit because it's the highest source of vitamine B12 and eating shit is what apes do "naturally".

praise kek

>>8774237
>>/pol/

>>8774135
hope your shit tasting plant garbage is worth those extra sheckels
Also, if you're going for kcal/dollar, butter and other fats is the clear way to go

>>8773692
L O N D O N

>>8774305
This. Btfo veganbro

Veganism is a luxury and a fashion statement

I am a meat eater but there is no rational argument against veganism. While there is against eating meat. Eating meat is purely selfish choice in this day and age. Appeal to nature arguments are stupid and cannot be used as a rational argument against veganism.

>>8774398
>eating bread, rice, beans, nuts, greens and maybe if you're bad some honey is a luxury and a fashion statement

??

>>8773067
You know that it's only cattle that pose serious environmental threats. Pork and poultry (and goat/sheep) are much better by a large margin.

Also fuck the "meat is manly meme". There is nothing manly about eating some factory farmed/raised animal. Maybe if you grow/hunt your meat sure? But how the fuck are you manly for cooking some steak bought from the grocery store.

>>8774414
True, but they also are a large contributors to crop monoculture and poor land usage (I used to live in hog country NC. Have you ever smelled a shit lagoon from 10 miles away? I have). In general I have little issue with poultry, eggs, and some other animal products, but I avoid them because until meat in general reflects the real price of making it - no more subsidies for it, no more subsidies for corn to feed those animals, etc - I choose to avoid it. Of course all food has ethical issues, farmworkers have garbage protections in America, but since I cant stop eating I feel like I can do this at least.

All "vegans" are hypocrites who eat animal products. I only eat raw wild plants unfertilized by animal excrement, grown from seeds not transported by animals, and which by coincidence happen to be carried by the wind into my mouth. It's the only true way to eat ethically, free of all animal labor.

>>8774457
Some people are against animal agriculture for ethical reasons such as animal suffering.

Some people are against animal agriculture for ethical reaons such as human suffering.


Some people are against animal agriculture due to the environmental impact.

Only idiots or strawmanning 4channers think veganism is about animal labor, voluntary or involuntary.

>>8774470
Labor is suffering, you fake vegan. How you can live with yourself making animals transport and cook food for you is beyond me. Die, fascist.

Thanks to meat eaters millions of animals experience life every year. Vegans are the real killers.

>>8773627
What harm playing with feces does to human health? Citation needed.

>>8773048
>And why is it a shitty cult?
They, as all cults, label themselves (vegans, vegetarians). It is vegetables these bodies need (in quantity, quality and variety) to produce sedative endorphins. Instead most people chow down animal hormones, protein and anti-biotics.
Anyone of you realize their is a bean with as much protein by weight as cow? We have a 100% symbiotic relationship with plants. Aerobic animals consume my O2 and produce CO2. Eating meat is unsustainable. As long as meat is consumed, people will starve.

>>8774445
>Have you ever smelled a shit lagoon from 10 miles away?
Nevermind the smell, that fumes are actually lethal:
https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/cesspools.pdf

>>8773074
>in moderation
Can you define what this 'in moderation' is?

>>8773327
>Veganism is pointless in my opinion
But your opinion doesn't matter. It has health benefits over simple vegetarianism and is also better for the environment. And if you stopped eating meat because you care about the animals, veganism is better in that regard, too.

>>8773048
I have no interest at all in what anybody else wants to eat. Do not fucking care.

People who "identify" as things get irritating fast, because they tend to keep identifying loudly and at great length.

Eat what you like, and chew with your mouth closed. (You can't explain to me about veganism with your mouth closed.)

>>8773067
Just don't fall for the "locovore" meme, or the "organic" meme, if you are serious about the ecological impact.

>>8774702
>but muh correlation equals causation studies!

>>8774639
Water is lethal if you breath it as well.

Not to say that hog waste is not disgusting, but it is not going to stop me from eating bacon any more than the fact that sometimes people drown is going to stop me from putting ices in my tall frosty drink.

>>8774639
>www.nrdc.org

Not saying your statement is false, just saying that if you want to convince anybody who is not already in agreement with you, you'd do better to use a source that is less obviously a bunch of greenists.

If your statement is true, I bet you can find a more neutral source for it.

In the meantime, I'm not delving any further into that poorly designed site trying to find the info you claim is there.

>>8774237
you dumb fucking nigger chicken is bland as fuck, same as oats
>>8774305
no shitman, i'm going for the least harmful balanced diet. i'm not gonna drink canola oil like some kind of retarded marathon runner

>>8773048
It's stupid because it's ideological, and ideologues are uniformly both stupid and nutters. It isn't a principled or health based decision to swear off eggs and cheese.

>>8774805
>some vegans are idiot ideologues
>therefore veganism is an ideology and there's no need to consider why someone might choose to avoid animal products

Yeah dude just like global warming and round earth, its all a lefty ideological plot!

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>>8773048

As a vegan I am naturally superior to meat eaters. Body, mind, and soul.

Meat kills you. Heart disease, fatness, etc
You're just not smart enough to find an alternative.
We are humans. We are smart enough to evolve past eating meat.

Meat eaters are also natural psychopaths. Raising and killing sentient beings just because it makes thrm feel good. Pathetic monsters.

>>8775014
But why would you not eat meat? Those answers are not based in reality, im assuming just a weak troll. Personaly, for religious reasons i would never be a vegan or associate with one..

>>8775036
>for religious reasons
so you make sure that all the meat you eat has been completely drained of its lifesblood as god commanded noah, right?

>>8775043
See
>>8775036
The questions were ignored by you. Thanks for taking the bait and confirmation that you are also a mentally ill atheist.

>>8775062
a.) i'm not >>8775014


b.) Genesis 9:3 - 4 "[3]Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. [4] But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it."

c.) as to why I would not eat meat, I choose not to eat meat because of its environmental impacts the fact that it is an inefficient usage of land and water resources, as well as the fact that I personally find it distasteful that in my country (US) billions are given to the meat and dairy industry, as well as to large feedcorn growers, but comparatively much less is given as subsidy to those that grow healthful foods in sustainable ways, or that grow food that is more energy dense per acre (say potatoes or oats) or suited to the local environment.

hope that answers your question bud.

>>8775090
>Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.
>quickly turns around and defines which animals are okay to eat

>>8775118
well technically the laws of leviticus would be 1,000 years or more later depending on what timeline of the bible you subscribe too, but this isn't a thread about judeo-christianity. except that being vegan is unchristian and unjewish i guess?

>>8774765
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/28/iowa-father-son-die-manure-pit-fumes/30811157/

here's a news story about a fume death

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_lagoon#Toxic_fumes

and here's what wiki has to say (you can scroll further down to see how they also mess with the water table!)

just because an environmentalist group says it doesn't mean it isn't true, though I agree about finding neutral sources. activist groups are often the ones that push fringe or controversial ideas into the mainstream, and while no one should blindly listen to them the adage "where there's smoke, there's fire" comes to mind.

>>8775090
>efficiency
Why is this important? Cuz niggers?

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>>8773048

Everywhere I go all I see whiny meat eaters. I never ever see vegans forcing their views on anyone.

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In prospective studies of adults, compared to non-vegetarian eating patterns, vegetarian-style eating patterns have been associated with improved health outcomes -- lower levels of obesity, a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease, and lower total mortality. Several clinical trials have documented that vegetarian eating patterns lower blood pressure.

On average, vegetarians consume a lower proportion of calories from fat (particularly saturated fatty acids), fewer overall calories, more fiber, potassium, and vitamin C, than do non-vegetarians. Vegetarians generally have a lower body mass index. These characteristics and other lifestyle factors associated with a vegetarian diet may contribute to the positive health outcomes that have been identified among vegetarians.

Dietary Guidelines for Americans, 2010 - A report issued by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/DietaryGuidelines/2010/PolicyDoc/Chapter5.pdf

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and Dietitians of Canada have stated that at all stages of life, a properly planned vegetarian diet is "healthful, nutritionally adequate, and provides health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases"

http://www.eatright.org/about/content.aspx?id=8357

Large-scale studies have shown that mortality from ischaemic heart disease was 30% lower among vegetarian men and 20% lower among vegetarian women than in non-vegetarians.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/516s.full#T7
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4801570.stm

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Vegetarian diets offer lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol and animal protein, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fibre, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals.

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/2003_ADA_position_paper.pdf
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1607S.long

Vegetarians tend to have lower body mass index, lower levels of cholesterol, lower blood pressure, and less incidence of heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, renal disease, metabolic syndrome, dementias such as Alzheimer's disease and other disorders.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9622343
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/5/1225.long

Non-lean red meat, in particular, has been found to be directly associated with increased risk of cancers of the esophagus, liver, colon, and the lungs.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/12/11/us-cancer-meat-idUSN1043849120071211
http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0040325

A 2010 study compared a group of vegetarian and meat-eating Seventh-day Adventists in which vegetarians scored lower on depression tests and had better mood profiles.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/26

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Studies exploring animal protein's negative effects on bone health, suggest that vegetarians may be less prone to osteoporosis than omnivores, as vegetarian subjects had greater bone mineral density and more bone formation.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/25/6/555.full.pdf
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/mar03/osteo0303.htm

The China-Cornell-Oxford Project, a 20-year study conducted by Cornell University, the University of Oxford, and the government of China has established a correlation between the consumption of animal products and a variety of chronic illnesses, such as coronary heart disease, diabetes, and cancers of the breast, prostate and bowel.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090223222003/
http://www.nutrition.cornell.edu/ChinaProject/
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/08/science/huge-study-of-diet-indicts-fat-and-meat.html

High levels of dietary fiber, folic acid, vitamins C and E, and magnesium, and low consumption of saturated fat are all considered to be beneficial aspects of a vegetarian diet.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=814540
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12740075

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Protein intake in vegetarian diets is only slightly lower than in meat diets and can meet daily requirements for any person, including athletes and bodybuilders. Studies at Harvard University as well as other studies conducted in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and various European countries, confirmed vegetarian diets provide sufficient protein intake as long as a variety of plant sources are available and consumed. Proteins are composed of amino acids, and a common concern with protein acquired from vegetable sources is an adequate intake of the essential amino acids, which cannot be synthesised by the human body. While dairy and egg products provide complete sources for ovo-lacto vegetarian, several vegetable sources have significant amounts of all eight types of essential amino acids, including lupin beans, soy, hempseed, chia seed, amaranth, buckwheat, pumpkin seeds, spirulina, pistachios, and quinoa. However, the essential amino acids can also be obtained by eating a variety of complementary plant sources that, in combination, provide all eight essential amino acids (e.g. brown rice and beans, or hummus and whole wheat pita, though protein combining in the same meal is not necessary). A 1994 study found a varied intake of such sources can be adequate.

A 1999 metastudy combined data from five studies from western countries. The metastudy reported mortality ratios, where lower numbers indicated fewer deaths, for fish eaters to be 0.82, vegetarians to be 0.84, occasional meat eaters (eat meat less than once per week) to be 0.84. Regular meat eaters had the base mortality rate of 1.0, while the number for vegans was very uncertain (anywhere between 0.7 and 1.44) due to too few data points. The study reported the numbers of deaths in each category, and expected error ranges for each ratio, and adjustments made to the data.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/3/516s.full

>>8775162
>>8775167
Its not healthy,you are supplementing your diet right? I feel so sad about you and how the zog has poisoned your mind. I hope you reconsider your harmful diet, destructive worldview, and your generally anti-western anti-white politics. I only wish the best for you.

>>8775191
>anti-white politics
>not wanting to eat animals is anti-white
>white people are literally plants

>>8775191
>taking a multivitamin means zog boogeyman is going to get you

sure hope you only eat free range anti-biotic free meats, filter your water, avoid plastics, heavy metals, and air-borne pollutants, never watch tv or go on the internet, otherwise they might get you too!!

I mean i have to assume you're just trolling but if not I would consider doing some serious independent research into the things you are talking about, and I don't mean going on /pol/ more either.

>>8775199
I feel so bad for you. Why not shave your dreads?

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>>8774499

>>8775191

You realize your white Führer was vegetarian? It's weird how so many right wingers are anti-vegetarian.

>>8775230
>hitler was vegetarian too

hitler did literally EVERYTHING wrong

>>8775221

Starving people in India have no problem being vegetarian.

>>8775236
How fucking stupid are you? Do you think they have a choice?

>>8775236
>>8775221
ironically meat makes it easier to starve - animals take up a lot of time and water to grow, and if you're feeding them anything other than grass, you are feeding them corn, potatoes, or other food that could have gone to humans.

something like 30% of the usa's corn goes to feeding animals, corn that we could export or just give away to other countries if we didn't demand so many burgers

>>8775245
Yup those dumb Africans are feeding all their food to their goats. That's why they starve.

>>8775249
i'm too easily baited by idiots so i'll reply

that is not why they starve, but it is a contributing factor to food insecurity in some parts of the world. animal agriculture is also a leading cause of deforestation, which doesn't help places that ecologically are already riding a fine line between fertile and desert.

additionally, if there was, say, a global scale climate emergency (i.e - volcano kicks up a lot of dust) then it would simply be unsustainable to feed all of our animals and ourselves. and as human populations increase, it will become unsustainable to keep consuming meat at the rate we do and feed everyone.

historically meat was either something you hunted or you purchased at great expense, and that is likely where meat will return as populations increase or the climate changes on our planet.

if you'd like to continue acting like a gradeschooler and purposefully misunderstand what i'm writing that's your choice.

>>8775230
You'd think they'd embrace him more. He also shut down secular schools.

>>8775162
>>8775167
>>8775171
>>8775178
http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/26647492370/final-thoughts-on-the-american-dietetic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthy_user_bias
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v69/n9/full/ejcn201563a.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21529374
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18842807
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19419322
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26224750
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27708684
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3046316
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4912906
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19094350
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2538051
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/334910
http://cra.iaea.org/crp/project/ProjectDetail?projectId=2048&lastActionName=OpenedCRPList
https://deniseminger.com/tag/t-colin-campbell/
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-animal-022516-022943

>>8773048
https://newsblog.drexel.edu/2016/02/24/thinking-of-becoming-a-vegetarian-well-you-cant/

>>8775574
>thinking-of-becoming-a-vegetarian-well-you-cant
Let me guess, it's a "you can't do it perfectly, so don't bother at all" article.

>>8775653
>can't even read past the article title before making up strawmen

Are all vegans brainlets like this?

>>8775264
>but it is a contributing factor to food insecurity in some parts of the world.
Which parts?

>additionally, if there was, say, a global scale climate emergency (i.e - volcano kicks up a lot of dust) then it would simply be unsustainable to feed all of our animals and ourselves
So what? What an idiotic non-sequitur.

>>8775717
Was I wrong?

>>8775236
people with no food generally don't eat meat

>>8774295
>Also when you hear someone saying we must eat meat because it contains vitamin B12: Eat shit because it's the highest source of vitamine B12 and eating shit is what apes do "naturally".

Only a vegan extremist setting up a false dilemma would seriously suggest such a thing. Also, invoking disgust doesn't negate the fact that almost everyone who suffers from B12 deficiency are vegans and that humans who don't get enough B12 will suffer adverse health effects.

>>8774295
are you even allowed to eat my shit? it's an animal product. I give you permission if that helps.

>>8775742
About what? Not being a retard?

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Just going to post some thread related humor.

>>8775813
The fact that vegans risk death from their poor dietary choices is proof enough that they are fucking mental.

>>8775821
About what the article was about. You seem afraid to say it.

>>8775828
>risk death
>easy to get nutrient that most people get way more than enough of without any animal product
?

>>8775852
Yes. Does that help?. Or will I have to goo-goo ga-ga it out next for your non-existent inference capacity?

>>8775854
>im not fucking insane
>defends diet of death.

>>8775867
Thank you for explaining what the article was about. You're a real good discussion guy.

>>8773048
>How can you tell if someone is vegan?
They will have thin hair and pale skin, and they will be meek and underweight.

>>8775893
Why do the people I know like that only eat meat and bread then?

>>8775916
I didn't say you couldn't be meek and underweight while eating meat, just that it is a guarantee if you are vegan.

>>8775893
>every anon is vegan

>>8775889
>backpedaling this hard

>>8775928
>>every anon is underweight
kek'd

>>8773048
Why is it that I get asked "you aren't a fucking vegan are you?" when I prefer ratios of more veggies than meat? Why are people so triggered?

>>8775951
Vegans are the outgroup. You don't want to be part of the outgroup, do you?

>>8775951
Used to live with a vegan who i converted to a vegetarian who eventually she just started eating 'nonflesh' like broth and jello and just the veggies out of the beef roast and then to 'fish only'.

Bro just enjoy it, feel different, feel validated, but then come back to earth.

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>>8775962
>>8775981
>hate people based on something stupid

Seems stupid.

>>8775981
Used to live with a heterosexual who i converted to a bisexual who eventually just started liking 'girly guys' like traps and just sucked dick and then to 'anal only'.

>>8775499
>https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/334910

I'm interested in this one but not enough to pay for it. Cliffnotes?

>>8773048
Can someone fill me in on Quorn products? Are they a good source of protein or should i just stick to shrooms/beans/lenits

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>>8775230
Most people consider Hitler to be a right-winger. But he was more liberal than you'd think. Communism and Fascism are pretty damn close on the political spectrum. The main reason people think fascists are right-wing is because of the neo-nazis which they confuse with the KKK which are very right wing.

>>8775245
>something like 30% of the usa's corn goes to feeding animals
Wait 'til you find out where the rest of it goes [spoiler]ethanol[/spoiler]


The US govt spends around $20B a year on agriculture to ensure your grains that need to be fortified artificially to be even remotely nutritious stay cheap enough for you to buy them.

Vegetables are cheap to grow, but they also don't earn the farmer much. Without govt assistance, vegetables would be almost as expensive as meat.

>>8776076
http://www.karger.com.sci-hub.cc/Article/Abstract/334910