Trump budget to cut science funding

>>8752599
>Trump destroys America's science
It's time for us Europeans to shine again.

suck it fags no more gibs

>>8752599
There's already a thread my man.

>>8752599
ha, get rekt you leeches. maybe now you'll research actually useful things

>>8752599
>Claims it cuts science research
>literally all stupid global warming shit


Protip: It's the military doing the science that actually matters

>>8752674
>useful things

>Department of Energy cut
>NIH gigantic cut
>ATVM program termination

Sure smells cuckold in here.

>>8752599
In an immediate sense, out of all of those things I'm probably the most concerned about the complete elimination of the Chemical Safety Board. The reason we don't have things like the Bhopal chemical spill in the US is because we take measures to prevent them from happening. Eliminating those safeguards is just asking for trouble.

Eliminating funding for research, while undeniably stupid, will take a bit longer to really bite us in the ass.

>>8752700
If we can get the department of energy out of the way we might finally be able to really develop nuclear power. The regulations that they impose are absolutely insane.

>>8752741
You say that until you actually work in the field and realize there's a reason for it

>>8752771
The "reason for it" is that idiot envirofaggots are so terrified of the words "nuclear" or "radiation" that they want to cripple the whole industry with absurd and unnecessary regulations.

>>8752599
Time to start actually doing competent research instead of getting funds because your lab has a woman and a black.

>>8752734
this

>>8752808
>t. guy who knows nothing about nuclear power
ignoring those cumbersome safety regulations is literally how the Soviets got Chernobyl

>>8752882
> Chernobyl
Envriofaggots who know nothing always trot this out. Chernobyl blew up because it was run by dumbass slavshits who had been given positions they didn't deserve by the government. No private sector company would be anywhere near as stupid as they were.

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>>8752921
>No private sector company would be anywhere near as stupid as they were.
Bhopal begs to differ

>>8753010
India is a mess of government corruption and cronyism that only exists because there is basically no real free market competition. IF they were forced to actually compete, things like that wouldn't happen because any business capable of fucking up that badly would go out of business long before it reached that point.

Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill.

Not many of you are old enough to remember this, but the USA were working on a project that was similar to the LHC. Then republican congressmen stepped in and literally said they don't think it's worth the money. When scientists countered with the argument that if this project doesn't go through, then Europe will do it, congress' response was: "Let them do it".

And so we did. You're going down that road again, USA. And you'll lose the remainder of the edge you have over the rest of the world in terms of scientific output. It's sad to see so many good scientists' work destroyed, but we'll welcome you with open arms in Europe. And hopefully together we can spark a Renaissance for science, and let the rest of the USA find out the hard way that defunding science is a terrible idea in the long run.

>>8753204
>Not many of you are old enough to remember this, but the USA were working on a project that was similar to the LHC.
Wasn't that supposed to be even larger?

>>8753209
Found it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

>>8753209
Yes, the SSC was gong to be about 40 TeV iirc. We could've discovered the Higgs in the US, but they decided that since we didn't need to compete with the Russians any more, they let the Europeans do it.

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>>8753067
>IF they were forced to actually compete, things like that wouldn't happen because any business capable of fucking up that badly would go out of business long before it reached that point.
the food and drug industry in America pre-1906 begs to differ
there was free and open competition, and yet companies still sold tainted food and dangerous drugs, and CHILDREN DIED as a result. but somehow those companies didn't go out of business...and they didn't clean up their act until Uncle Sam made them.

admit it, your argument is basically:
>those examples don't count because it wasn't REALLY a free market!
>gonna do it right this time and everything will work itself out!
you're as bad as the commies that way.

>>8752599
>make America great again
>by driving even more brilliant young American minds away from research and into day trading or other get rich quick shite
WEW
LAD

>>8753220
> BAAAAW THINK OF THE CHILDREN
If you can't be rational about this instead of resorting to cliched emotional appeals then there's no point in trying to reason with you. Engaging in mindless hysteria doesn't do anyone any good, least of all the people that you pretend to care about.

>>8752921
go back to /pol/

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>>8753233
Haven't you heard? The stock market is the true source of America's wealth. Those "researchers" are just a bunch of ticks on the back of the truly productive people like real estate moguls.

>>8753248
Are you saying the children dying is not something that should be avoided?

I mean, how is children dying not a very bad result? I'd say that children dying as a result of something is a sure sign that something isn't right, unless the goal is killing children.

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>>8753248
>pshh, the market will police itself, everyone will be fine, what are you worrying about
>>but we tried that already and it didn't work that way, and thousands and thousands of people died as a result
>LOL MORALFAG
I dunno, I just think the government should take the course of action that results in people not being poisoned by their food and drink. if your ideology thinks that's a bad thing, I suggest you lead by example and have a few gallons of Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup.

>>8752634
>It's time for us Europeans to shine again.

The USA having funding doesn't detract from your ability to do something. What have you been doing all this time?

>>8753255
>this is /tg/
mein gott
>when you create wealth by investing in mansions that you leave empty that appreciate in wealth because all the other multimillionaires want to buy one to invest their wealth in because they can't find any other profitable investments
das it mane

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>>8752741
>nuclear regulation: "don't fuck up shit and irradiate fucking everything"
>The regulations that they impose are absolutely insane.

>>8753267
T U L I P O M A N I A

>>8753256
Capitalism is the reason most of the children alive today are living in a world where they have a good chance of surviving to adulthood. Prior to capitalism, that wasn't the case. If you actually care about children not dying, you should support capitalism.

>>8753266
>The USA having funding doesn't detract from your ability to do something.
>literally what is competition toward attracting top-tier researchers

>>8753274
> nuclear regulation: "don't fuck up shit and irradiate fucking everything"
Never actually been a serious issue in any halfway decent nation. No company wants to blow up their own power plant, so they're not going to do anything that would result in that. The added regulations are just there because leftist envirofaggots are scared of nuclear energy and want to cripple it with red tape.

>>8753276
>the reason kids live is because I made ten grands yesterday selling pretend Estonian copper stockpiles
>Pasteur who? Fleming what?

>>8753276
Right, but completely unregulated capitalism has also led to avoidable deaths.

Seems like a better option would be to slow down a little and make sure the businesses aren't taking liberties with people's well-being.

>>8753290
>Never actually been a serious issue in any halfway decent nation.
>no true Scotsman
>Japan doesn't count despite being a top-GDP tier country

>>8753290
>The added regulations
Which ones?

>>8753248
> moving goalpost fallacy

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>>8753290
>No company wants to blow up their own power plant, so they're not going to do anything that would result in that. The added regulations are just there because leftist envirofaggots are scared of nuclear energy and want to cripple it with red tape.
yeah, who ever heard of a for-profit business taking a risk or cutting a corner in the pursuit of making money?

>No bank wants to blow up their own country's economy, so they're not going to do anything that would result in that. The added regulations are just there because leftist socialists are scared of the financial sector and want to cripple it with red tape.
Really Makes You Think

>>8753296
> Japan doesn't count despite being a top-GDP tier country
1. Fukushima was overblown by the media, basically nothing happened.
2. This was after it got hit with both an earthquake AND a tsunami. If you had told someone before hand that they needed to prepare for that, they would have laughed at you. Yet the reactor made it through both.

>>8753312
>Fukushima was overblown by the media, basically nothing happened.
Corners were cut every fucking where you fucking nigger.
>no emergency generators to power the pump and drain the reactors
>bring some from a neighbouring region
>they don't fit because different regional industrial socket standards

>>8753312
>This was after it got hit with both an earthquake AND a tsunami. If you had told someone before hand that they needed to prepare for that
How much do you ignore about geology?

>>8752599
>Trump budget to cut pseudoscientific publications' funding
Fixed.

>>8753317
> no emergency generators
Bzzzt. Wrong. There were emergency generators, they were taken out by the tsunami. Which, again, was no one was expecting to have to deal with.

>>8753328
>There were emergency generators, they were taken out by the tsunami.
THEN THEY WEREN'T MUCH OF EMERGENCY GENERATORS YOU SIMPLETON
I'M TALKING ABOUT MOBILE GENERATORS, WHICH THEY HAD TO GET FROM THE NEIGHBOURING REGION BECAUSE THEY HAD NONE IN THE AREA

NIGGER, TEPCO GOT EXPOSED FOR FUCKING CUTTING CORNERS AFTER THE INCIDENT WITH THE CLEANUP JOB WHICH LED TO MORE RADIOACTIVE RELEASES
LIKE FUCK GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS YOU FUCKING COCKROACH IDEOLOGUE

>>8753303
>>No bank wants to blow up their own country's economy, so they're not going to do anything that would result in that. The added regulations are just there because leftist socialists are scared of the financial sector and want to cripple it with red tape.
Except that's true. It wasn't the banks that caused the 2008 crash, it was the fact that the government was forcing them to make terrible loans to nogs who had no business buying houses, all in the name of "inclusion" and "expanding home ownership." The banks knew it was a fucking awful idea, but they were required to give out those loans by government regulations.

>>8752734
They kept investigating the oil companies. Now that the oil companies have a man in the very highest level of government they no longer have to worry about things like investigations over people getting killed or maimed for life. That's just acceptable loss to them, I mean come on, how many millions of barrels of oil do you expect them to produce a day if they can't have a few workers die here and there?

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>>8753328
>they were taken out by the tsunami. Which, again, was no one was expecting to have to deal with.
>Japan
>tsunami
>no one was expecting to have to deal with

>>8753333
> get hysterical about MUH NUCLEAR and MUH RADIATION
> call other people ideologue
It's like you people have no self awareness.

>>8753348
>IF YOU CARE ABOUT NUCLEAR SECURITY YOU'RE AN IDEOLOGUE
I believe you're done here you spastic.

>>8753343
No one was expecting to have to deal with a massive earthquake followed up by a massive tsunami all happening back to back. Either alone would have been no problem, it was the fact that both happened one right after another that was the problem.

>>8753354
>No one was expecting to have to deal with a massive earthquake followed up by a massive tsunami all happening back to back.
Again, exactly how much are you uneducated on geology?
This is actually impressive.

Anyway that's not even the point. TEPCO cut corners, TEPCO got exposed for it, and there's still fucking worthless simpleton ideologues like yourself claiming nuclear companies would never cut corners. Get fucked you literal political infant.

>>8753204

Trump's audience doesn't care about haughty taughty scientists. They hate them. He's throwing meat to the crocodiles.

And America will come out ahead anyways. There are inbuilt advantages that keep it that way.

>>8753204
We won't get a European science Renaissance, Asia will siphon the American losses probably.

>>8753328
>No-one was expecting
>Built in a country that is in a part of the world that has so many earthquakes that they have a special name for it

>>8753362
TEPCO would have gone out of business long ago if it weren't for government putting up barriers to entry and preventing new businesses from competing. They cut corners because government regulation doesn't help make things safer, all it does is stop the thing that actually does make things safer: competition. Without that competition, they could cut corners and get away with it because there was no one to drive them out of business for making stupid mistakes.

>>8753383
>COMPANIES WILL NEVER CUT CORNERS ON NUCLEAR SECURITY
>OH NEVERMIND, THEY ACTUALLY CAN IF THERE'S BEEN SOME SORT OF GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE AT SOME POINT IN THE PAST
>EVERY DROP OF GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE CAN TAINT MUH PURE CAPITALISM LMAO
Literally rewriting your argument as you go. I used to be a brainless libertarian too, I know exactly what you're doing.

>>8753337
Dude, banks were committing outright fraud in the lead up to '08, banks have no problem creating what they know are bad loans because they know even in the worst case the fed will bail them out to save them.

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/12/wall-street-journal-still-refuses-grasp-accounting-control-fraud-via-appraisal-fraud.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/mortgage-fraud-scandal-2010-10

A bunch of Goldman Sachs guys are directly serving in government right now under Trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_fraud

>>8753266
People work where there's money to be had. No one does it for free, my American friend.

>>8753398
> because they know even in the worst case the fed will bail them out to save them.
Which is only an issue because of government regulation that props up losers. Without it, there's no safety net and those who misbehave are allowed to go out of business. Thank you for proving my point.

The alt-right is heading us towards a disaster.

From one hand they hate refugees. from the other hand they are going to create a crisis of climate refugees because they do not acknowledge the threat of global warming.

If they are not going to get defeated, the future is going to be bleak and full with war

>>8753403
>No bank wants to blow up their own country's economy, so they're not going to do anything that would result in that.
>proven untrue as fuck
>nevermind I was talking about my headcanon libertard utopia not the real world lmao
>what? you expect me to state that first?

>>8753392
People on /sci/ are the easiest to troll. You're all literally too autistic to realize when you're getting the shit trolled out of you.

>>8752599
What did you expect?

The vast majority of those who voted for Trump don't even have a college education. He won the votes of rural retards so easily. His entire campaign was based on exploiting the stupidity of people in order to get as much electoral votes as possible.

In other words, he's a smart guy catering to dumb people. It's no wonder he did terribly in all the cities with the educated populace. Cutting funding to science isn't a surprise for anyone paying attention to Trump's rhetoric.

>>8753404
The solution is simple. Don't let the rapefugees in. There's no human right to force your way into a nation that doesn't want you there.

>>8753411
>he actually believes that
I guess people voted for Trump ironically too?

>>8753412
this, Trump is basically rurals getting revenge on the rest of America for being ignored

>>8753413
You really don't get the issues, do you?
first of all it's always terrible when people die. i actually live in southern israel. if it gets any hotter here, people will start dying from heat in the summer, it can reach 47c~48c here in summer right now

Second of all, you are going to create pre-ww2 tier of racial tensions. do you really not see the disaster you are going to create? there are minorities within your own country. if you deport them or murder them just to keep white people the majority in europe, that would be a trigger of ww3 of islam vs christianity

And I really don't want a ww3 of islam vs christianity, espicially considering how devestating modern weaponary is. also Pakistan actually has nukes

>>8753403
It has noting to do with regulations, the major banks were illegally skirting regulations before they got bailout; systematic all large banks were engaging in fraud and they had assets inside government to cover their ass and prevent them from being prosecuted for misbehaving is what the problem is. It's what happens when you allow corporate interests control government, they know no administration is going to allow a total domino bank collapse to happen underneath them, or nationalize them, so they fear no one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmi8cJG0BJo

>>8753418
The result of the 2016 elections is an act of revenge by rural retards and miserable rust-belt poorfags against the normal Americans for not suffering as much as they do.

Hey, if you're going down the guys near you should also go down too, right? The mentality of Trump's supporters..

>>8753419
> Second of all, you are going to create pre-ww2 tier of racial tensions
> implying that's not already the case
Racial tensions are worse now than they have been in more than a century. The endless decades of race baiting by the MSM has made the whole country a powder-keg.

> also Pakistan actually has nukes
They don't have missiles that can reach us, so we can just hit them and they can't hit back.

>>8753419
If the Western countries actually wanted to win, they could. They could turn the Middle East into a sheet of glass.

I could be wrong here, but aren't most of the refugees Sunni? It's not like they would face much pushback from Iran on the issue. There's not a whole lot of Shia terrorism in Western countries as far as I can tell.

>>8753432
I would argue racial tensions were much worse when the US still had an active segregation policy. that was less than a century ago.

Aniway, i will just say this:
If i had to choose between ww3 of christianity vs islam or white minority in europe in a few centuries, i would choose white minority in europe in a few centuries.

>>8753440
The problem is that no one wants the Arabs. Israel doesn't like them, Russia doesn't want them, America doesn't want them, Europe doesn't want them, China doesn't want them, Canada doesn't want them. Not even the Arabs want to be around other Arabs.

Nobody actually wants the Arabs or Africans, they just take them because immigrants help to fund their pension liabilities and it makes them look good on the world stage where they can pretend to be humanitarians.

>>8753375
>And America will come out ahead anyways
Like with the LHC?

>>8753448
Saying "no one wants" is factually incorrect, please don't hyperbole arguments, this is /sci/ we need to try and be accurate here.

There are plenty of people who are completely fine with living with arabs and africans. they are human beings just like anyone else, after all.

I'm in favor of humanity working together to make the future better for ALL OF US and combat global warming. what i'm not in favor of is focusing on dividing humanity by race and deporting or murdering people just because of their racial background. this is literally the seed of war.

Humanity needs to grow up and learn to work together instead of focusing on hating other human beings based on their gene pool

>>8753380
Time will tell.

>>8753455

Economy wise.

>>8753463
Are science and technology on the one hand, and the economy on the other hand, completely unrelated to each other?

>>8753448
t. brainlet

But in all honesty, you should REALLY study demographics, economics and geopolitics before spouting your asinine opinions.

Government nearly always had to decide between pleasing the people, or saving the country, you can't do both at the same time. Immigration is one instance of saving the country. You probably don't even know that before the Syrians, it was Poles and other east-Europeans migrating to Germany.

>>8753375
>And America will come out ahead anyways. There are inbuilt advantages that keep it that way.
That's not an excuse to shoot your country in the foot. That's not what a good leader does. A good leader does not sacrifice real public goods for a popularity spike.

>>8752599
god fuck i want to throw up

>>8752741
Regulating nuclear power plants is the job of the NRC, an independent agency. The DoE has less to do with regulating nuclear power than most people think it does. The main jobs of the DoE are actually maintaining the nation's nuclear arsenal and supporting nuclear energy research. If you want to develop nuclear power, the department in charge of researching it is probably the last department you want to cut.

>>8752674
>>8752698

>Research into biofuels and more advanced batteries
>Researching the Earth that we live on and its climate
>Cancer research
>Not useful

I'm okay with these cuts.

>>8753412
>>8753418
>>8753429

Trump won white college educated class

https://newrepublic.com/article/138754/blame-trumps-victory-college-educated-whites-not-working-class

He also won the white wealthy voters

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls

So basically Trump the highly educated wealthy white

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

Meanwhile Hillary tried to put together a coalition of violent low IQ nigs, illegal spics, diseased fags and Hollywood liberal and failed

>>8753537
Why would an educated person want to cut funding to medical research and risk losing our country's technological supremacy?

>>8753568
Because (((educated))) includes non-STEM retards who study shit like business, economics, psych etc.

>>8753537
If only the rich and educated could vote, Jeb would be president.

>>8753537
>Trump won white college educated class
Overall education of Clinton voters was a lot higher. Fuck off with your fake news.
https://cdn.businessinsider.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/e6394096bd1ef45566e5a475d02ebc8f87601468-800x676.jpg

>>8753576
if only the rich and educated could vote, pleb tier pandering candidates like everyone in the last election except hillary would not even be up for consideration and it would be a highly opaque process choosing from among the nation's top CEOs and corporate board directors

>>8752599
Reminder that the US is about to reach its debt ceiling again.

Stop whining.

>>8753412

People with a liberal arts degree are not educated.

>>8753568

Maybe because they believe the government has no place in this kind of thing? Some people are minarchists and believe the government's only duty is to protect our rights and property. I understand that in modern terms "educated" often means "Marxist indoctrination", but many smart people don't believe the government should have so much authority.

>>8753599
Funny that you actually believe that when in fact, it's engineers and science majors who have no formal schooling besides essentially advanced job training that are not educated.

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>>8753312
>>8753328
>got hit with both an earthquake AND a tsunami. If you had told someone before hand that they needed to prepare for that, they would have laughed at you.
>the tsunami. Which, again, was no one was expecting to have to deal with.
literally everything in Japan is built with earthquakes and tsunamis in mind, you nitwit. they've been seismically active for all of recorded history.
>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/world/asia/12codes.html

>>8753337
>it's not the big banks' fault! the big bad evil government MADE them defraud their investors, aggressively market high-risk mortgages to people who couldn't afford them, and gamble with other people's money!
I bet you think Enron was the fault of too much regulation also.

>>8753354
>No one was expecting to have to deal with a massive earthquake followed up by a massive tsunami all happening back to back. Either alone would have been no problem, it was the fact that both happened one right after another that was the problem.
...do you even know what causes tsunamis? I'm astonished at how ignorant you are of very basic geology.

>>8753411
>I was only pretending to be retarded!

>>8753448
>I Know Nothing About the Middle East: The Post

>>8753607

Advanced job training IS education.

>>8753617
So you'd consider a tradesman or skilled factory worker with a high school diploma to be educated?

>trump supporters defending this

hahahahahaha you have to be either underage or an unemployed pseudo-intellectual neet to see any logic in this cut.

>>8753599
Said the high school dropout

>>8753537
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/even-among-the-wealthy-education-predicts-trump-support/

He loses college graduates as a whole. As the level of education rises, support for Trump falls. When you get to the post-graduate level, Trump ends up losing among whites as well.

As for wealth, it looks like he loses among those who are highly educated and have a higher income than 200,000$.

>>8753629
>As for wealth, it looks like he loses among those who are highly educated and have a higher income than 200,000$.
man wtf, so he completely shafts all the dumb poorfags who vote for him, then cuts taxes and benefits the rich people who vote against him, none of this makes any sense anymore

>>8753626
This

The money potentially cut is enough for like one jet (if even) but enough to destroy these organizations

Pretty sure congress won't let this pass though , even Newt "moon base" Gingrich is criticing the budget plan

>>8753621

The word "educated" is useless. Yes, I would consider them educated in the field they decided to learn.

>>8753604
>>8753604
Yeah, but I mean STEM people. If you take government funding out of STEM like half of it goes away, including some key discoveries that industry is based on that wouldn't have been funded by a corporation.

>>8753573
>STEM
>Of the American scientists, 85 percent said they voted for Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, and about 10 percent said they voted for Trump.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/scientists-across-the-world-are-nervous-about-trump-survey-says

>>8753629
>When you get to the post-graduate level, Trump ends up losing among whites as well.
First of all, it's not by a terribly strong margin. Trump still got 40% support among whites with some post-grad education. Secondly, degrees outside of STEM are basically all leftist polical indoctrination, and it's a lot easier to go post-grad outside of STEM (you basically just have to decide not to exit college). Even in STEM, you've got the school administration against you if you let slip you're anywhere outside the range of fully apolitical to hard left.

Note that it said "post-graduate study" not "higher degree achieved". These are all the people who hung around in academia instead of going out and getting a real job, including the ones who couldn't even finish a master's in women's studies.

>>8753643
So are you the same autist saying people with a liberal arts degree, then? If so, I'd love to see the convoluted logic you have going on.

>>8753649
...which is exactly what I said. I was blaming the cut on the "educated" whites that voted for him because they are retards studying non-STEM subjects.

>>8753604
so let me get this straight

you are arguing that anyone who accepts a system in which the government taxes the people to provide social services beyond protecting your property rights is a marxist? or is somehow indoctrinated by marxists? or somehow a government that taxes people to provide services is marxist?

you do realize that marxism is literally the violent redistribution of the means of production from investors to workers, right? like, are you so confused on this concept that you do not understand that taxes taken from profits earned on the means of production is different from actually seizing the means of production themselves? or are you simply so hopelessly indoctrinated by libertarianism to accept their meaningless buzzwords as the actual literal definition while not even doing basic research into what the people you've been told are your opponents believe?

just, how can someone vaguely literate and coherent believe and repeat such nonsense without realizing that you're completely fucking retarded?

>>8753673
>just, how can someone vaguely literate and coherent believe and repeat such nonsense without realizing that you're completely fucking retarded?
Well, he's only vaguely literate.

>>8752599
There was no government funding for any of this until about the mid 20th century, yet science was for the most part doing fine. Trump is doing what any right wing president would do, reducing the economical role of the government. Because let me remind you faggots, the one thing a state is the first and foremost is a protection racket - and I say this with no ill will. Defense and law enforcement are its two primary duties, and the only duties for most of history.

>>8753711
>government is a protection racket

just stop. you probably think "trickle down" works lmao

>>8753650
>higher degree achieved
the proportion of trump voter's would probably be even lower

>>8753650
Not to mention a lot of postgrads are in various sorts of programs that rely on gibs. Scientists are not above self-interest. There is questionable logic in relying on most of them as authority figures anyway, since the average STEM PhD is less educated on politics and history than the average interested layman.

Just ask any of the math geniuses here some simple shit like why does Iran hate the US, what did Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln have in common or how did the state of Israel come about, and they won't have a clue without having to google it. Politics is a field like any other, it requires a knowledge base and understanding. Most "highly educated" individuals have a rather limited scope of competence, and form opinions about things they don't know through accepting whatever the consensus is.

>>8753650
>20% difference
>a small margin
you may elect one of these options, but your choice voids the possibility to elect the alternative option

>>8753711
>yet science was for the most part doing fine.
And here we are in a global crisis where we have irreversibly shifted the climate balance, and the only question left is how much it's going to cost to deal with the consequences

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>>8752599
这是为什么我学中文。

>>8753711
Being a "gentleman scientist," a person from a rich background who does science or someone with another source of income who dabbles in research, is no longer feasible because reagents cost so much more relative to the average upper middle class income compared to back then.

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>>8753711

The cuts to the DoE research end fusion research

>>8753807
is it true

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>>8753810
It's not like we were honestly trying before

>>8753767
>Most "highly educated" individuals have a rather limited scope of competence, and form opinions about things they don't know through accepting whatever the consensus is.
kek, you've just described 99% of /pol/.

you retards come here and think your opinion matters

newsflash: you guys aren't politicians yourselves, so our opinion on politics is as valid as anyone else's. but this doesn't hold when it comes to your opinion about science.

>>8753772
>>20% difference
>>a small margin
It was a 13% difference. While 41% supported Trump, only 54% supported Hillary.

Anyway, even a real 60-40 split isn't an especially strong advantage. Only 10% have to flip their votes (and remember, this was an election where the media was extraordinarily biased and dishonest in favoring Hillary over Trump, so those who didn't spend their time digging for the truth would get the impression that Trump was a joke candidate who hardly anyone supported and had no chance of winning). It's not like these margins of 30-40% in other categories.

And the claimed support for those with higher education and high income together is ridiculous: a 1-2% difference. Within the margin of error without a doubt.

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>>8753818
>While 41% supported Trump, only 54% supported Hillary.
Fake news.

>>8752882
>le chernobyl meme
Chernobyl had a meltdown because they were running tests on pushing the reactor to its limits. Even after the disaster, the other reactors in the plant were still generating power until 2000.

>>8753797
>Being a "gentleman scientist," a person from a rich background who does science or someone with another source of income who dabbles in research, is no longer feasible because reagents cost so much more relative to the average upper middle class income compared to back then.
That's total horseshit. You can still do good science with cheap materials. A lot of lab equipment and supplies are insanely expensive only because the people ordering it have no incentive to keep the costs down. They're spending other people's money, and working with a large budget is something that looks good on their resume.

Meanwhile, it's never been easier for a technically proficient creative thinker to get rich in their 20s and retire to pursue their dreams in their 30s. The trouble is that the career scientists do everything possible to shoulder such "amateurs" out of their field.

>>8753829
you obviously have never worked and never will work in science

none of what you just said has any overlap with reality

I still don't feel bad about voting for trump.

Someone as corrupt and soulless as hillary should never be in any sort of office, I'd rather have a retard than someone who would (if given the chance) sacrifice a child to satan in exchange for something.

Fuck America. I want out.

>>8753822
Now divide that chart up by STEM vs gender studies.

>>8753457
that's literally a meme

radical muslims aren't going to tolerate transgender/gay people

how are they supposed to live together? That's only one example of how your stupid shit would never work

>>8753822
We were talking about white voters. Whites vote on issues, non-whites vote as ethnic blocks for gibs, quotas, and immigration, in a quid-pro-quo arrangement with predatory globalist elites.

Now whites are starting to acknowledge this is happening and that they have to vote firmly against gibs, quotas, immigration, and predatory globalist elites or they won't have a country left for any other issues to matter in.

>>8753767
This is just wrong.

Educated people tend to know much more about world politics and history than uneducated people. Even math geniuses had to take humanities and knowledge courses where they discuss politics and at least "try" to care about it, while the average retard with a high school degree never needed to take interests in world events.

The reason you rarely hear about about educated people voicing their opinions is because as the eternal historical rule goes, the idiots will always be more vocal than those with properly-formulated insights. Average Joe graduates high-school, gets a job, works, comes home, and turns on Fox News to be told what to think.

>>8753841
Why can't you just admit that your claim was wrong?

>>8753849
>We were talking about white voters.
No, we were talking about college graduates.

>>8753846
>Thinking people value religion over safety and comfort

Boy do I have some news for you...

>>8753852
>>We were talking about white voters.
>No, we were talking about college graduates.
Stupid monkey.

>>8753849
>>8753822
>>8753818
>>8753772
>>8753650
>When you get to the post-graduate level, Trump ends up losing among whites as well.
>>8753537
>Trump won white college educated class
>He also won the white wealthy voters
>So basically Trump the highly educated wealthy white

[math]\color{red} {\textbf{(STOP FEEDING THE TRUMPTARDS)}}[/math]

>>8753867
ay

the EPA and NHS shouldn't even exist.

chopping block action incoming.

>>8753850

the reason you don't hear educated opinions is because they have unpopular things to say.

HINT: they support trump.

>>8753887
-> >>8753822

>>8753887
considering how much retarded shit academics say that doest sound very convincing.

>>8753880
>NHS

>>8753887
Yes just like Terrence Tao shit on Trump on his blog and the Trumptards had to damage control with "b-but he was forced to do it" or calling him a retard.

>>8753887
They certainly do NOT support Trump, most anyway. But luckily for Trump, these educated people are well-off in society, even if they dislike Trump, they don't engage too deeply in politics against him.

However, that disgruntled peasant picking up the pitchfork mentality is still common with the average Joe, so once the average idiot gets indoctrinated with some political opinion, he becomes much more dedicated to the cause. I'm not only talking about Trump supporters, but Clinton ones as well.

However, highly-educated people realize that Trump is a narcissistic shitbag who is catering to dumb people, but they couldn't care less. Don't mistake the silence of those who couldn't care less as an indication of ignorance, as you have previously mentioned. That's just wrong.

>>8753850
>Educated people tend to know much more about world politics and history than uneducated people
No shit. The problem is, educated people still know jack shit for the most part. Now, without googling:
>why does Iran hate the USA?
>what did Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln have in common, and what were the former's dying words?
>what events lead to the formation of the state of Israel?

If you want to talk politics, get your virtue signalling ass over to /pol/ and see if you can take them in a debate, rather than try to start circlejerks (god I hate this reddit term) on boards that have nothing to do with it.

>>8753915
oh, and if you really want your jimmies rustled, try the senior /pol/ over at the other big imageboard (that the spam protection system does not allow me to name, but goes by the name of infinity) rather than this shill and normie infested shithole

>>8753849
Why are poor whites too stupid to vote themselves gibs?

>>8753924
Religion, ethnic nepotism. It's not that difficult. If the niggers are sticking together, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the whites should, too.

>>8753913
>but Clinton ones as well
I don't think there are any who wish Hillary was president. Trump is just THAT shitty where you think to yourself "hey maybe that warlord criminal who should be imprisoned wasn't that bad after all."

>>8753915
>Why does Iran hate America

Because America has a history of fucking over Iran since the last century. America toppled the democratically-elected Iranian president and replaced him with a dictatorial puppet. The Shah sold out Iran to the US as Iranians watched. Then later the US supplied chemical and conventional weapons to Saddam Hussein to kill Iranians in the war and even shot down an Iranian airliner killing hundreds of civilians. There are many reasons why Iran hates the US, and they're all justified.

>what did Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln have in common, and what were the former's dying words?

Not gonna bullshit, don't know much about that. Jackson tried to shut down banks, hunted the Indians and got into duels. Lincoln was a lawyer and a member of the Whig party, until he joined the Repubs. I guess both were extremely nationalistic.


>what events lead to the formation of the state of Israel?

Balfour Declaration and the Holocaust. Nothing else.

But don't mind me, since only popular opinions are accepted in the mainstream media, you will never hear anybody actually educated voicing his insightful political opinion, and people will continuously mistake that silence for ignorance.

>>8752599
>A republican president cut funding to things related to researching the environment
Nobody should be surprised, it was near inevitable considering Trump proved any republican that is breathing could have beaten Hillary.

It won't slow down US research, that is carried by not the government anyway.

>>8753915
>virtue signalling
Isn't that what you've been doing all this time?

>>8753937
>Because America has a history of fucking over Iran since the last century. America toppled the democratically-elected Iranian president and replaced him with a dictatorial puppet. The Shah sold out Iran to the US as Iranians watched. Then later the US supplied chemical and conventional weapons to Saddam Hussein to kill Iranians in the war and even shot down an Iranian airliner killing hundreds of civilians. There are many reasons why Iran hates the US, and they're all justified.
Good. I hope you did not have to use google for that.
>Not gonna bullshit, don't know much about that. Jackson tried to shut down banks, hunted the Indians and got into duels. Lincoln was a lawyer and a member of the Whig party, until he joined the Repubs. I guess both were extremely nationalistic.
Pretty close. Andrew Jackson spent most of his career fighting the establishment of the federal reserve and fiat currency. Lincoln was rather opposed to the idea as well, and many suspect this had something to do with his removal - though there is limited evidence to support this.
>Balfour Declaration and the Holocaust. Nothing else.
Pushing the question one step back, not answering it
>how and why did the Balfour declaration come into existence
>why were the jews given a country because of muh genodice, when the same or worse had been done to so many other nations - plenty of which had guarantees of independence from the western allies

>>8753943
>Nobody should be surprised, it was near inevitable considering Trump proved any republican that is breathing could have beaten Hillary.
Holy shit, you fags really are in denial. Trump is the only man alive who could have beaten Hillary. I can't think of anyone else who could have survived the media onslaught that he did.

>>8753955
Free publicity 24/7 is bad now?

>>8752599
I am so glad to see this. It's about time someone drains all these fraud organizations of their funding. This shit is not the government's responsibility. Even worse, it creates another stream of tax dollars which will inevitably be abused and wasted.

In all honesty though, it isn't the scientific agencies that concern me the most. It's the "arts" agencies which is the biggest crock of fucking shit I have ever seen.

Remember:

1. Ignore /pol/
2. Trump doesn't control the US government budget, Congress does.
3. Republicans are going to get fucked next year election.
4. Trump will be remembered as a joke president as someone who knows what they are doing wins 2020 and eliminates cronyism he put in the government.

>>8753931
>ethnic nepotism
At least the religion argument makes sense since they believe in perverse versions of Christianity where wealth is indicative of God's favor and receiving benefits is sinful. But ethnic nepotism doesn't make much sense.

>muh fellow white job creators!
Lots of poor whites hate rich people but they still don't vote themselves gibs. you would think with the extra IQ points they would realize that they can vote themselves more money but I guess not.

>>8753962
($0.50 has been deposited in your account)

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>>8753959
No. But it wasn't exactly by choice - his audacity forced the media into a prisoner's dilemma. Anyone with half a brain could see he would win a couple of months into his candidacy since he was the one thing on everyone's mind regarding the election.
>>8753951
Do you even know what the term means, you nigger kike faggot piece of gook shit?

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>>8753963
>cronyism didn't exist before trump
>cronyism will be elminated
>ever

>>8753964
>ethnic nepotism
>not a thing
Do you even into game theory, faggot
>>8753963
Go back to your containment board, /s4s/

>>8753966
>literally trying to use /pol/'s catchphrases
They updated your playbook, Shareblue?

>>8753711
if that's the case I want my tax money to stop going to the Welfare Force

>>8753817
>you guys aren't politicians so you know nothing about politics
>you aren't a chimpanzee so you know nothing about chimpanzees

>>8753966

Please explain to me how funding these "The National Endowment for the Arts is an independent federal agency that funds, promotes, and strengthens the creative capacity of our communities by providing all Americans with diverse opportunities for arts participation." or "The Indian Arts and Crafts Board (IACB) promotes the economic development of American Indians and Alaska Natives of federally recognized Tribes through the expansion of the Indian arts and crafts market. The IACB provides promotional opportunities, general business advice, and information on the Indian Arts and Crafts Act to Native American artists, craftspeople, businesses, museums, and cultural centers of federally recognized Tribes." is a benefit to society.

>>8753983
Trump cannot cut military funding, considering support among the grunts is the primary reason he hasn't been JFK'd yet, and the US mitary is the main reason the US dollar is the primary reserve currency used worldwide. Not that it matters, if he could manage to slash welfare and as much of social security as possible he'd get way more money back.

>>8753982
>see Shareblue
>remember it being mentioned by /pol/acks, but don't know what it is
>check wiki
>"left-wing" media site
>hates sanders, supports clinton
>"left-wing"

I swear, Americans have to be the most retarded people on this good Earth.

>>8753963
5. Trump will get to appoint enough Supreme Court Justices that there won't be any possibility of an activist judge majority decision for twenty years.
6. About 20% of the Democrat vote will mysteriously evaporate after Federal anti-fraud measures are enacted, in time for the mid-term elections.
7. Another 10% will go when it's properly recognized that "anchor babies" were never citizens, an issue which will be raised when the SCOTUS is secure.
8. When Republicans control three quarters of state legislatures, they'll be able to create real constitutional amendments with only simple majorities in Congress.
9. Pence is young enough to serve 8 years as president after Trump's 8 years.

>>8753995
It's not a site. It's a front for a shilling operation run by DNC's favorite internet person David Brock who used to run Correct the Record back before the election. They get funding from all sorts of weird sources, including companies owned by Saudis and Chinks.

Also,
>muh right-left dichotomy

>>8753995
bernie sanders is pretty much a bolshevik. rich jew that doesn't pay his share and tries to rally up the gullible poor retards to back him.

>>8753962
Yeah, fuck the NIH! Who needs cancer research?

>>8753955
I wanted Trump over Hillary, so I'm not sure which fag I am. I just recognize he is a fucking idiot who just was able to survive due to quadrupling down on the polarization of the country. Another Republican would not have been subjected to quite the same onslaught, except maybe Cruz.

>>8754004
wew I wanted Trump but I wish the entire thing wasn't so overflowing with shitposting, both on 4chan and real life audible shitposting.

>>8753963
>3. Republicans are going to get fucked next year election.
lmao

you realize that trump flipped states that have been historically blue, right? everyone is tired of you leftists shits. my best suggestion is for you retards to leave the country because people can only get so tired of you.

>>8754030
>calls the president of the most powerful country on earth, a billionaire, and a successful father of children with three women stupid as he writes his posts in the middle of a work day in his jizz encrusted underwear

You could use these threads as a case study of Dunning-Kruger and Poe's law.

>>8754038
Poster walks into /sci/ thread, slips on a shitpost and BOOM autism! Many such cases!

>>8754024
>bernie sanders is pretty much a bolshevik
he's centre left by euro standards, so no

>inb4 pro-business capitalists in europe are commies

>>8753963
Make note of this post. This is how retarded and delusional some members of our society actually are.

Historically, this has always been the liberal approach: telling you what you should believe.

Same story with liberals trying to change laws in favor of socialism because they think people only vote for the current system because they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires".

And now despite the fact that blue states have actually turned red, despite the fact that no one thought Trump had a chance, despite the fact that these social justice warriors are so dead set convinced on their way, despite the fact that right wing politics is blowing up in multiple countries, these globalists can't even open their minds up for discussion never mind consider the opposing side.

>>8754062
Reminder that /pol/ are SJWs for different demographics. Head over to leftypol if you feel like getting btfo sometime.

>>8754032
Not everyone who thinks Trump is stupid is a leftist. I am pro-life, I believe in racial differences, I think the free market is great, I dislike affirmative action, and generally think people have gotten too libertine in their sexual mores and hedonism.

But that doesn't mean I have to suck Trump's dick. Cutting NIH funding is stupid. Alienating large amounts of people for little to no reason by making dumb tweets is stupid. Stop trying to spin stupidity as 'le 4D chess.' He clearly does not have a very well-defined and thought-out plan for the country, at least not one that's actually focused on getting long-term results instead of popularity points.

>>8752700
>ATVM

Why should we be paying car manufacturers to do their own R&D

>>8754038
This is a level of celebrity workship old /pol/ would've been ashamed of. Your cheeks are literally brimming with corporate cum.

>>8753783
>2017
>Believing climate change is a real problem created by man

>>8753519
>bio-fuels

Kill yourself.

>>8754086
I've been to leftypol. I don't even know what political affiliation they are since they hate leftists too

>>8754030
>wew I wanted Trump but I wish the entire thing wasn't so overflowing with shitposting
That's not shitposting, my friend.

You dismissed Trump early on, didn't you? But then he came through with a resounding victory, not just for his own presidency, but down-ballot as well. Then he started keeping his promises.

You'll see. Democrats rely heavily on activist judges and fraudulent voting. One activist justice retires or dies (and there are two who are due any moment for either), and Trump ends the balance between activist and non-activist SCOTUS justices (possible because there's one fence-sitter who is activist sometimes, but only when he feels like it), with a solid non-activist majority. This will CRUSH the Democratic power structure.

And it's true that the anchor babies and birth-tourism babies were never citizens. They fall under the same recognized exception to birthright citizenship as foreign diplomats' children and the children of an invading army on American soil: aliens not fully subject to the jurisdiction of the USA. Only activist (i.e. dishonest) judges have seen it otherwise. Fix the one problem, the other also falls. Not citizens. Not eligible to vote. You have to go back.

Trump getting results is going to shatter the credibility of the political advocacy organizations currently masquerading as the mainstream media. His populist, nativist movement is only going to keep gaining momentum at the polls. You'll see 75% of state legislatures go red, and you'll see constitutional amendments from it.

>>8753963
>ignore things that make me upset

wow. so educated. such rationality.

>>8754098
The left does not care about identity politics. The only societal classifications in a capitalist society worth talking about are those of class. You will never feed yourself with race, religion, nationality, culture, gender, etc. As long as people are exploited or exploiters under capitalism little else matters.

>>8754100
But what does it matter if he establishes a Republican empire that will last a million years? His own party doesn't even like him. He just proposed a budget that won't even get passed because half his party aren't putting up with his shit. How is he going to get the rest of those proposals passed if his own Congress is against him?

you know, I was in another thread that said the average person has an IQ of roughly 130. so, obviously a scientist should have more than an IQ of 130, and if they're all together "researching" then why the fuck haven't the most prominent and deadliest of diseases been cured?. my answer to that is that there's too many disagreements between scientific minds, and, money outweighs the well being of humankind..you simply cannot deny that.

>>8754113
>His own party doesn't even like him.
Factions in his own party don't like him.

Here's the deal: he's not powerful because he's president, he's president because he's powerful. He can influence voters. He's the head man for a movement. There's no one in Congress who doesn't have to face an election before 8 years are up.

The people who elected Trump are not happy with the NeverTrump ratchet conservatives. The more they stand in Trump's way, the more weapons they're handing him to remove them. Sooner or later, he'll raise the term limits issue, which the public is strongly in favor of. Then everyone who votes against it will lose their seat in the next election, and if they let it pass, most of the NeverTrumpers will lose their seats due to having served too many terms already.

It's the public that will decide it in the end. Trump shows them that they actually can elect who they like, to do what they want.

>>8754124
Because you need money to run clinical trials and get things approved by the FDA. Also, curing diseases is hard.

>>8753337
Do you know Austrian economics is a meme right?

>>8754153
Do you know everything he said is true?

>>8754130
Trump has a mediocre approval rating, though. He has a very strong core constituency but a good portion of conservatives, myself included, just supported him as the lesser of two evils, and he's starting to fail even my very low expectations. I mean, why cut NIH funding by one sixth and only cut NASA funding by 1%? He's not pragmatic at all, and in fact often does things that hurt his image for no good reason other than to get attention. This isn't 4D chess, he's setting his own house on fire for fun.

>>8754140
>because you need money to run clinical trials

Right, billions of dollars and yet only a few significant discoveries have been made.

>curing diseases is hard

no shit, that's why we've hardly put a dent in them with modern medicine.

>>8754179
>Right, billions of dollars and yet only a few significant discoveries have been made.

yes... let's instead not attempt to cure diseases, and instead reallocate money to building tanks.

t. typical Trump voter

>>8754184
>yes... let's instead not attempt to cure diseases, and instead reallocate money to building tanks.

this makes me a Trump voter how? I'm simply voicing my disagreements with the scientific community, sorry you can't understand that.

>>8753973
>Nigger kike faggot gook!
>See? I'm hardcore! I despise political correctness! Watch as I nonchalantly spray racial slurs with the intent to offend!
Classic right-wing virtue signaling.

>>8754179
>the only significant discoveries are the ones I read in USA today and the Daily News

Look, brainlet, we get that you don't actually read journals and probably have never published a single paper in your life, but please go to another board and stop dragging our collective IQ down.

>>8754193
I wasn't implying that's what you said, just mocking the typical Trump voter who would think that we ought to spend money on building tanks instead of the NIH. I don't see how cutting the NIH will fix anything when the costs of drug trials are one of the main issues.

>>8754130
But some of those people who elected Trump aren't happy with Trump either, as evidenced by falling approval ratings from Republican voters as well as all those town hall protests.

And when you couple that with the recent Dutch elections and La Pepe's abysmal chances at winning in France, it all looks like evidence to me that the pendulum is swinging back.

>>8753988
>The arts don't matter
Did you ever stop to consider why your heroic Nazi idols looted the Louvre?

Anyways, nice cherry pick. OP of this thread talks about the ARPA energy research center, NASA's satellite programs, the Chemical safety board, NoAA's coastal research program, etc. And you randomly change the subject to indigenous American arts and crafts. This type of intellectual dishonesty might work on /pol/, but it won't work here. Sorry.

>>8754209
>But some of those people who elected Trump aren't happy with Trump either, as evidenced by falling approval ratings from Republican voters as well as all those town hall protests.
You see, those are all Jewish subversives planted to discredit Trump by George Soros! It couldn't be that people are, in fact, not happy with having their healthcare cut.

t. typical Trump voting retard

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>>8754201
>never published a single paper

you mean like the ones that are infested with plagiarism and errors that stray away from scientific methods? kek

>>8753973 based

>>8754171
>Trump has a mediocre approval rating, though.
Approval rating isn't his current focus, and he's hardly had time to do anything.

>why cut NIH funding by one sixth and only cut NASA funding by 1%? He's not pragmatic at all
NASA's got plenty of fat to cut, like SLS/Orion, but it's fiercely-guarded pork. It would put lots of blue collar people out of work who would have trouble finding other jobs right away. And that industry is moving in the right direction in general. The space pie is going to get higher with the efficient reusability that's currently emerging. Then it'll be better to cut government funding as private industry takes over. Anyway, NASA's a household name, and quite popular as a prestige program for America, tearing it down could easily turn embarassing for the "Make America Great Again" sloganeer.

Medicine, on the other hand, is a big trainwreck. Costs are skyrocketing while life expectancies are going down. Medical research is part of that mess. Everyone knows money is being thrown at bad research that produces results which are later proven wrong, after much harm has been done to patients through useless treatments. This industry has to get turned around, so it's a good place to make cuts deep enough to force them to rethink how they do things.

He can't just do everything at once. He has to show willingness to make deep cuts and at the same time not overstep his political strength.

>>8754222
Decreases in life expectancy aren't due to poor healthcare, they're mostly due to diseases of idiocy, such as obesity, lung cancer, cirrhosis, etc.

>>8754222
Mental gymnastics at work. Everyone study this post, watch the process, it's fascinating.

>>8754222 can't argue with that.

>>8754215
Top kek thanks for laugh m8

>>8754231
>can't argue with that.

As a researcher, I certainly can argue with it. A 1/6th cut is too extreme to avoid causing significant collateral damage. Yes, some shoddy research is being done, but on the whole, advances in biomedical research have been a great boon to doctors and such a drastic cut will definitely close down as many good labs as mediocre ones. Furthermore, if Trump is concerned with the quality of research, it seems very odd that he chose to help get research on track by simply making a massive funding cut. Why not appoint a new Director of the NIH? Surely that would be a more sensible course of action.

>>8754215
No I mean like a good paper. Do you even have a job?

>>8754242
Don't a lot of pharma companies piggyback off the NIH? Why not go after companies that engage in patent trolling or spend all their money on marketing drugs?

>>8754244
>wanting to be a pathetic wagecuck

Nah

>>8754242
because it's funny to watch the rats start to scurry when they begin to starve.

>>8754228
>diseases of idiocy, such as obesity, lung cancer, cirrhosis, etc.
Oh, so smoking is up?

One of the reasons obesity is up is that people can't get competent advice on it from their doctors, or even an admission that they don't have good advice to give. Rather they've been getting incompetent advice for decades (high-carb, low-fat, avoid red meat, count calories, "What does lifting weights have to do with weight loss?"). Nor can they get competent treatment, like good weight-loss drug regimens (even though the butchers will cut out half your stomach, a much riskier approach).

But even aside from that, the healthcare is also poor. As people get old, they get told to take more and more pills, often for no better reason than their doctor personally feels that every old person should take these pills. Nobody knows what they all do together, taken for years. Doctors spend less and less time listening to patients, because they get paid by the visit, not by minute.

That's not even getting into drug reps, pushing their products to doctors to push them to patients. New drugs that don't work better than, and aren't understood as well as, old ones that cost one tenth as much are prescribed constantly for no reason.

This all leads to shitshows like Oxycontin: a pain pill that's supposed to (but doesn't) give long-lasting relief, so the patients are absolutely sweating for it when it's time for their next dose. That roller coaster of pain and bliss turned pain patients into addicts on an industrial scale. And the doctors don't notice the drug rep claims are life-ruining bullshit because they don't spend time with or listen to patients.

>>8754230
another pointless post by a retard whose every post in this thread, probably around half the total posts, is a shitpost.

>>8753963
>Republicans are going to get fucked next year election.

liberals don't vote in midterms

>>8754242
>if Trump is concerned with the quality of research, it seems very odd that he chose to help get research on track by simply making a massive funding cut.
This is just the budget. It's not the only thing he's doing.

What I haven't heard from anyone is why $30 billion is the exact right amount of funding for NIH, or why $24 billion isn't enough. Surely, some amount is too much. Why can't $30 billion be in the "too much" range? Why can't $24 billion still be too much? What if it had been $40 billion, and he cut it to $30 billion? Wouldn't you then be saying that $30 billion isn't nearly enough, and cutting it down that far is absolutely monstrous and irresponsible?

Overfunding corrupts. People find places to throw the money they're allocated, and people start to specialize in catching it. Best to keep things running on the lean side.

>Why not appoint a new Director of the NIH? Surely that would be a more sensible course of action.
He'll get there.

>>8754252
It's sad that jealous, unsuccessful, and miserable people need to see others brought down closer to their level to feel happy.
Why do you come to this board if you regard researchers as rats. You realize this isn't the politics board, right?

>>8754261
>One of the reasons obesity is up is that people can't get competent advice on it from their doctors, or even an admission that they don't have good advice to give. Rather they've been getting incompetent advice for decades (high-carb, low-fat, avoid red meat, count calories, "What does lifting weights have to do with weight loss?").
This is ridiculous. People get fat because they're fucking hedonistic morons. Counting calories works, exercising works. And it's not standard practice for doctors to prescribe high-calorie diets.

>>8754284
>Why can't $30 billion be in the "too much" range?
Because it's a pittance compared to the defense budget, and only 50% higher than NASA's budget, when surplus spending in both the military and NASA focus on endeavors that have a lower rate of return than you might get from more medical research. And while we're at it, why did he cut education funding by 17%?

>>8754291
where did i say that i regard researchers a rats? the only people i regard as rats are the ones that are overly worried about these cuts, and who most likely should be overly worried because they know they do shit work.

>>8754319
If $30 billion is a pittance then $6 billion should be nothing at all.

>>8754322
>the only people i regard as rats are the ones that are overly worried about these cuts, and who most likely should be overly worried because they know they do shit work.
Ah yes, because the NIH, which you insinuate wastes money and is poorly managed, will somehow magically get its act together and figure out who is pulling their weight and who is a hack. It's not like they could fuck things up and cut funding in the wrong places, or cause other collateral damage.
Good job. You are smart! You must be a rocket scientist or something! What is your job? Probably something really important and hard!

>>8754325
I said it was a pittance compared to defense spending. What I'm saying is that there is clearly fat in other places that would not be missed as much as at the NIH.

Learn to read.

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>"Trump totally knows what he's doing, guys! He's gonna get healthcare back on track!"

Ah yes, the ol' 4D chess meme.

>>8754326
lmao

see? did i not say watching the rats scurry is funny?

>>8754338

Do you even have a job?

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>>8754215

>>8754345
yes, laughing at you.

>>8754296
>This is ridiculous. People get fat because they're fucking hedonistic morons. Counting calories works, exercising works.
This is exactly the kind of ignorance that leads to getting fat.

Counting calories is often what starts people on the path from slightly overweight into hambeasts, and exercise is only moderately helpful if done correctly, and can be entirely counterproductive if done incorrectly, especially psychologically.

The human body isn't a simple system under the absolute command of the conscious mind, and trying to treat it as one will lead to the body grabbing the reins it holds over the mind.

People didn't suddenly start getting fat because they turned into "hedonistic morons", rather they started getting told false things by fake experts about how to control their weight according to science. Like you're doing.

It used to be everyday wisdom that obsessing over food, a starchy diet, and a desk job made you fat. They weren't such idiots to think cutting out meat, weighing your bread slices, and half an hour of self-punishing body jerks a few times per week would slim you down again. That's not the lesson you get from experience, that's the kind of dumb shit you make up by looking at a few basic scientific facts and making a guess.

>>8754350
So, no...

Sad.

Very sad..

>>8754351
>will lead to the body grabbing the reins it holds over the mind.
Is this what fat cucks with no self-control really think? Exercise and counting calories works fine. That's why I'm not fat and retards who don't exercise and don't monitor their food intake are.

>>8752599

I was initially worried about how dramatic it was, but then I remember all of the threads about waste and useless PHD studies that nobody finds worthy of even citing and I can see why this is getting cut. Lots of funding for research doesn't produce anything useful. Not even the pure science useful. I get the feeling that if Trump gets his way, we really won't see science output change.

>>8754319
>>Why can't $30 billion be in the "too much" range?
>Because it's a pittance compared to the defense budget, and only 50% higher than NASA's budget
I've said my piece about NASA, and defense is the primary responsibility of the federal government. There's nothing about healthcare research in the constitution. Anyone can put money toward heathcare. Why federal tax dollars? Why specifically 30 billion of them and not 10 billion or 50 billion?

>surplus spending in both the military and NASA focus on endeavors that have a lower rate of return than you might get from more medical research.
Failure to spend sufficiently on the military will result in loss of the country. Nothing else compares.

Now, who says you can get better results just by giving more funding? Remember, a major problem now is false results. Funding bad research muddies the water. So why can $30 billion not be more than can be productively spent by the federal government of the USA?

>And while we're at it, why did he cut education funding by 17%?
You mean federal education funding, and it's because education isn't properly a federal responsibility.

>>8754350 underrated post

>>8753650

See >>8753649

>>8754367
Wasn't education mostly a state thing that just had to follow through federal guidelines?

Maybe, just maybe I might respect Trump voters if they would direct one single ounce of criticism towards their dear leader. But nope, every decision he makes must be defended, no matter how asinine. There's something wrong with your brains, when you can no longer look at a person objectively and judge them by their actions, you have essentially been brainwashed. It's what happens when you spend too much time in an echo chamber like /pol/, you lose all semblance of rational thought and become completely reactionary.

>>8754357
>Exercise and counting calories works fine. That's why I'm not fat
I'm guessing you don't count calories, eat according to your appetite, and probably don't go out of your way to exercise regularly either. But because you're not fat, it flatters you to think that this is because of some special virtue of discipline, rather than simply the norm for a healthy young person, whose weight is regulated automatically by their appetite and metabolism.

...and if something goes wrong with either, you're going to be helpless to stop yourself gaining weight, because you're going to think "exercise and counting calories works fine", and you're going to try it and fail.

>>8754337
Really activates your almonds

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i've worked for the government for a long time now, both in the military and the civilian side. and when i tell people about how much waste there is, and give them examples, they don't really believe its true. people don't believe that the stewards of their tax dollars are this incompetent.

>>8754383

it's called fucking loyalty, faggot. we hired him to DESTROY and so long as he does that we'll support him to the death.

>>8754383
i've criticized him plenty. i actually find him repugnant as a human being. but what he puts into pen and ink legislation (aka the only thing that matters) is good.

>>8753657
If you spent more money on your degree than you will receive in a reasonable time as a result of having a job directly related to that degree - then you can technically be "educated" in terms of the definition but will still be fucking retarded. Colleges also aren't required for one to become educated. You can actually educate yourself. And in the case of liberal arts, save a lot of money in the process. Then use that savings to get a real degree or learn a useful trade.

>>8753067
>the free marlet would never make a high profile blunder!
>is given a counter example
>t-that's not the true free market! Something something cronyism
Why are libertarians so utterly predictable?

>>8753432
>things are the worst they've ever been so they can't get any worse

>>8753589
So we should build a big stupid wall and increase military spending even more, right?

>>8753419
>first of all it's always terrible when people die
that is a moral opinion

>Second of all, you are going to create pre-ww2 tier of racial tensions
obama already created that. sure it wasn't COMPLETELY his doing, but he certainly helped

>And I really don't want a ww3 of islam vs christianity
i don't see where christianity is involved here, in america it's more of a debate between national security and safety vs. calling the other side racist with sassy blog posts

>>8753631
It makes sense if you remember Trump's tax bracket

>>8753767
>Just ask any of the math geniuses here some simple shit like why does Iran hate the US, what did Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln have in common or how did the state of Israel come about,
I think you seriously overestimate the knowledge of the average layperson

>>8754438
The wall will pay for itself practically overnight in reduced crime, unemployment, and social program spending.

The economy has to be fixed before the military budget can be cut, and the country's still at war.

>>8753812
>fuck yeah, let's get this nuclear energy off the ground!
>meh, that's actually kind of a lot of work
Holy god that's a great graph

>>8752674
>Make Anime Real Again

>>8752921
Hey, I agree with this guy. Everyone knows Slavs are the niggers of Eastern Europe, and niggers can't technology. White American Knowhow and work ethic is how we'll get them nuclear factories up and churning out nuclears

>>8753204
I plan on working in the energy market in China and Korea.
t. White USA male

>>8753248
You are the only one literally BAAWWWing

>>8753204
What does the LHC actually do besides produce information about physics, though? Can't we reap the benefits of its research without paying for it? It's not like they can patent their discoveries. Better to spend money on biotech.

>>8754452
>great graph
It's a made up fantasy graph by people who had no way to predict how much it would actually cost or how long it would take at any level of funding.

If the US government had decided to throw money at fusion power in the 70s, it probably would have turned out like their big 70s investment in reducing orbital launch costs through reusability: decades later no results, but a very strong lobby to keep the funds flowing.

>>8754367
>I've said my piece about NASA, and defense is the primary responsibility of the federal government. There's nothing about healthcare research in the constitution.

I don't think there's anything about about researching astronomy or spacecraft technology in the constitution, yet we do it.

>Now, who says you can get better results just by giving more funding? Remember, a major problem now is false results. Funding bad research muddies the water. So why can $30 billion not be more than can be productively spent by the federal government of the USA?

You assume that more funding = more bad research. I could assume the opposite that more funding allows for better, more accurate research through funding of larger clinical trials. It's really all baseless conjecture.

Heres an example of what funding cuts could do.

>“In fact, 75 percent of the ASCO members who responded to an August 2013 survey said that since October 2012, the current federal funding situation is having a direct impact on their ability to conduct cancer research, and 38 percent said their time spent on research has been reduced. In addition, 35 percent reported having to lay off research staff, 28 percent are participating in fewer federally funded clinical trials, and 26 percent have delayed the launch of a clinical trial.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer-care-progress-threatened-congress-budget-cuts-group-says-2D11718659

So less funding = less clinical trials, less research.

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>>8753829
>You can still do good science with cheap materials. A lot of lab equipment and supplies are insanely expensive only because the people ordering it have no incentive to keep the costs down. They're spending other people's money, and working with a large budget is something that looks good on their resume.
10g of quinine (90% purity) costs $72 from Sigma-Aldrich. this is sufficient for some fluorescence imaging I'm doing, but I'd need to go to 95 or 99% purity if I were doing any biochemical or medical work with it, which would be significantly more expensive.
quality control and purification cost quite a bit, but they're essential. if any impurity messes with your results, you could end up spending far more time and money chasing a red herring...or if you're in any field related to medicine or engineering, people might actually die. corners cannot be cut in some lines of work. of course, you'd never know this because you have no aptitude or education in a hard science.

>>8753937
>Balfour Declaration and the Holocaust. Nothing else.
don't forget the decline and breakup of the Ottoman Empire

>>8754051
pic

>>8754215
W E W L A D
E W E A D L
W E W D L A
L A D W E W
A D L E W E
D L A W E W

>>8754383
this

>>8754394
you're so busy sucking his cock that you steadfastly refuse to realize that he's breaking all the promises he made to you.

>>8754449
>The wall will pay for itself practically overnight in reduced crime, unemployment, and social program spending.
oh lawd mah drills

>>8754476
>>I've said my piece about NASA, and defense is the primary responsibility of the federal government. There's nothing about healthcare research in the constitution.
>I don't think there's anything about about researching astronomy or spacecraft technology in the constitution, yet we do it.
Maybe you didn't understand, but when I said:
>>I've said my piece about NASA
it meant, "What I say next is not going to be about NASA, because I feel that I have already explained my position on that sufficiently in my previous posts."

>You assume that more funding = more bad research. I could assume the opposite
Stopped there. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a child.

>>8754087
enjoying the puppet show are we, children?

People here who are claiming that the NIH is extremely wasteful and needs to be cut, how wasteful is it and what evidence do you have to support that claim?

For example, the Defense Department wastes more than $120 billion, as indicated by their own internal reviews.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html

How does that NIH compare to that?

>>8754505
More than 87% of the NIH's spending is waste.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/nih-87-5-research-may-wasteful/
http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/nih-87-5-of-research-may-be-wasteful/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/25/tracking-taxes-nih-spends-millions-wasteful-research-studies.html
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/10/feds-spent-35-million-on-weird-research-like-why-primates-love-metallica-video/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-09/shrimp-scandal-fallout-has-nih-fighting-paperwork-not-cancer
http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/10/nih-spends-millions-on-hopped-up-honeybees-and-sexy-goldfish-then-asks-for-zika-funding/

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>1/5 of NIH budget cut
So what are the arguments for this?

>>8754521
We don't have the money to waste on an organization like the NIH that contributes little of value. See >>8754520
You could cut 4/5ths of the NIH's budget and it wouldn't harm any real science.

>>8754483
Huh?

The way you argue, obviously shows you do not support government funded medical research, or at least the level of funding before the cut.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>8754520
can you site something that's not a conservative news site?

I don't trust them to be impartial

>>8754505
You're shifting the burden of proof. The sensible default is for NIH to not exist, and for the taxpayers to keep their money. Any tax dollars it receives must be specially justified, rather than any deviation from the previous year's spending.

Justify why it should specifically receive $30 billion and not $24 billion, without referring to last year's budget, which isn't relevant, or to NASA or the military, which also aren't relevant. Also, without arguing simply that it does an important job and therefore needs a lot of money, since $24 billion is also a lot of money.

If one department's or a previous year's budget is excessive or wasteful, that's no reason for another one to also be excessive or wasteful.

>>8754541
> posts WaPo shit
> complains about other sources not being impartial
Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

>>8754541
They're more impartial than the Washington Post, and you seem to accept that, why the double standard for conservative news sites?

>>8753255
Except for the fact that without researchers we'd still be wallowing in the muck. We need state funded research because the free market doesn't have the foresight to properly identify and attack subtle problems that face mankind. In a world full of engineers and business types all progress would stagnate and then we'd get fucked by climate change.

>>8754558
Why the double standard for "liberal" news sites?

>>8754520
It doesn't say anywhere that 87% of NIH spending is waste, it says biomedical research in general. So that leaves the possibility that NIH spending could be more efficient than private spending.

>>8754564
> We need state funded research because the free market doesn't have the foresight to properly identify and attack subtle problems that face mankind
The state has even less foresight, as shown by the massive waste present in the NIH. Nearly 90% of all of its spending is useless waste, nothing but meaningless busywork created by the professional moochers filling it to con the taxpayer out of their money.

>>8754574
> So that leaves the possibility that NIH spending could be more efficient than private spending.
And there could be an invisible fairy that flies around taking the lost teeth of children and replacing them with money.

Since when has a government program ever even come close to matching the efficiency of private spending?

>>8754550
>>8754558
I did not post washington post. Perhaps you think I'm everyone in the thread you disagree with?

>>8754577
every major highway and rail system, to name just a few.
private industry couldn't even agree on a fucking standardized rail gauge until Uncle Sam stepped in.

what is it with these libertarian brainlets constantly living in a fantasy world? are they really unaware of how disconnected their claims are from reality? or do they subconsciously realize this and engage in revisionist history so as to avoid confronting how their ideas fall apart when actually implemented?

>>8754566
Because they showed how completely partisan they were in the 2016 election, when they dropped all pretense of trying to present both sides evenly and went all in for shillary. They spent months fabricating lie after lie to try to smear Trump while at the same time they refused to talk about any of shillary's crimes or the investigation into them. The level of dishonesty from the MSM is absolutely absurd.

>>8754566
It's one thing to have a bias. It's quite another to refuse to acknowledge it and claim to be presenting information objectively, while pushing an agenda. That's deceptive, and the last thing you want to rely on for your news is people who are known to willfully deceive their audience.

It's a common theme, for liberals to push their political agendas while claiming what they're doing isn't political at all. They can't draw that line between the ethical execution of their duties and the furtherance of their political goals. Which is why we have liberal activist judges, liberal brainwashing educators, and liberal lying press.

It's a damn good thing we don't have a liberal military, because then we'd have a coup as soon as an election went the way they didn't want.

>>8754581
Dear god you drank the koolaid

>>8754580
> every major highway and rail system
Kek, look at AmTrack. It's a festering heap of rusted garbage. Compare the quality of public roads to privately operated toll roads. The idea that government is the only thing that can build and maintain road infrastructure is utter shit.

>>8754585
> It's one thing to have a bias. It's quite another to refuse to acknowledge it and claim to be presenting information objectively, while pushing an agenda. That's deceptive, and the last thing you want to rely on for your news is people who are known to willfully deceive their audience.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Fox News, a conservative news outlet, the one that calls itself "fair and balanced" all the time?

>>8754592
> Correct me if I'm wrong
Okay, you are wrong.

>>8754587
Name a single thing in that post that wasn't true.

>>8754577
I'd say it's more efficient for the government to do the medical research. Private companies have more of an incentive to keep their research hidden away for profit. Plus, the government does a lot of the basic research that private companies rely on.

> Most cancer drugs get their start in the basic research funded by the NIH and often done in NIH labs.
"The targeted therapies, the immunotherapies, the conventional chemotherapy drugs — all of these things have roots in the NIH," Hudis said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/trump-budget-cuts-scientific-medical-research-will-have-devastating-effect-n734401

>>8754575
You seem to be equating inefficency with lack of foresight.

You can't deny that without state funded research we'd have a fraction of the theoretical background required for modern technology (which allows for the sustained economic growth). Why would the free market, interested in producing revenue over the next quarter, care about quantum field theory which produces applications ten years ahead?

>Nearly 90% of all of its spending is useless waste
Citation?

>>8754595
That media refused to post Hillary scandals while lying about Trump.

You have to have insane levels of cognitive dissonance to believe that.

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>>8754588
this may be news to you, but AmTrak is a for-profit business. it took over publicly constructed infrastructure, and it receives subsidies (and what big businesses don't these days?) but it is a privately held and managed corporation.
your argument kinda falls flat on the basis that your vaunted example of inefficient public works is actually a private sector mess.

check your facts next time, you fuckwit.

>>8754533
>We don't have the money to waste on an organization like the NIH that contributes little of value.
Got to build those tanks and warships instead. We need to fight China to bring our jobs back!

>>8754602
Show me where the MSM actually admitted that shillary committed treason. They refused to report on it in favor of screaming about how Trump was a racist, a sexist, and the next Hitler in the making.

>>8754607
The military serves a useful function, defending the nation. It doesn't matter how much meme science you're able to fund if ISIS can gun you down in the street or run over crowds of people with trucks like they can in Europe.

>>8754620
You have LITERALLY said that anyone agreeing with you is telling the truth and anyone disagreeing with you is lying.

How is that not cognitive dissonance?

How do you choose who's right today and who's lying to you? Based on what you already want to hear?

Why are there so many posters from /pol/ on here, you guys aren't actually interested in science and math are you?

Right wingers are parasitic sociopaths

>>8754600
The NIH spends fuck all on actual cancer research. They spend more on paperwork, see >>8754520

>>8754025

a 20% cut brings them down to what it was a few years ago before all of the mental health research that suddenly appeared after Obama care was rolled out. Which coincides with the rise of the trans bullshit that has become mainstream since that happened.

Good riddance.

So why not just write new spending guidelines for the NIH, appoint different people to run the NIH, or basically any number of alternatives other than "dude slash budgets lmao"

The NIH is not a for-profit institution, so I'm not sure how just slashing its budget is going to get it to produce more cost-effective outcomes. If you think the entire institution is indefensible, then destroy it entirely and declare that the free market will cover it from now on.

Also, why is it that the NIH is indefensible and a bloated military budget is defensible? The US has vastly more military power than it will ever need to defend itself, but, if Trump voters are to be believed, there is no such thing as too much military spending.

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>>8754623
>It doesn't matter how much meme science you're able to fund if ISIS can gun you down in the street or run over crowds of people with trucks like they can in Europe.
>implying that the military protects against terrorist attacks

>>8754603
>this may be news to you, but AmTrak is a for-profit business. it took over publicly constructed infrastructure, and it receives subsidies (and what big businesses don't these days?) but it is a privately held and managed corporation.
>your argument kinda falls flat on the basis that your vaunted example of inefficient public works is actually a private sector mess.
Are you shitting me with this argument?

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7416322_owns-amtrak_.html
>Amtrak is a corporation that the U.S. federal government has chartered. In other words, the government created the corporation, but Amtrak has its own board of directors whom the president of the United States appoints. The federal government owns most of Amtrak's shares, making the government the corporation's largest stakeholder.

>it is a privately held and managed corporation
It's neither privately held nor privately managed. They organized it as a for-profit company hoping it would eventually stand on its own feet so they could sell it off.

>it took over publicly constructed infrastructure
It took over privately constructed infrastructure. The industry was failing due to regulation (which prevented the railways from even controlling their own routes and schedules), taxation, unionization, and subsidized competition (i.e. the government paying for construction and maintenance of highways like the Interstate, but not for railroads, and heavily subsidizing air travel).

A glorious private industry was strangled to death by government, which then tied strings to the corpse and held it up like a puppet pretending it was going to come back to life at any moment.

>>8754620
she didn't 'commit treason' you absolute mong.

>>8754662
oops
>Amtrak, an acronym that stands for American travel by track, is a for-profit entity, even though its charter comes from the U.S. government.

>blaming the decline of passenger rail on muh regulation as opposed to the rise of the national highway system
yeah, those scary evil regulations that mandated basic safety practices to prevent private railroads from cutting corners. ever heard of the Naperville train crash of 1946?

>>it took over publicly constructed infrastructure
>It took over privately constructed infrastructure.
as a matter of fact, it took over both. most of the transcontinental rails were paid for in large part by federal bond campaigns

>>8754630
> wants the MSM to tell the truth for a change
> cognitive dissonance
You keep using those words. They do not mean what you think they mean.

>>8754664
Whether she committed treason is debatable. Whether she committed enough serious crimes that she'd be in prison if her name wasn't "Clinton" isn't.

Her secret email server she conducted government business on wasn't some kind of innocent mistake. The law required the use of official servers so there'd be a record of what she did in her official capacity as Secretary of State, an appointed (not elected) position. She knew she would be doing things she would hide from the people she was supposed to be accountable to, in one of the highest offices of the US government. And when the server was going to be investigated, she had it securely erased, willfully destroying what she knew was evidence. That alone should have been enough to put her in prison.

The Obama administration deliberately botched the investigation, granting immunity to involved people in exchange for nothing of substance.

>>8754694
> Her secret email server she conducted government business
The Trump administration currently uses private email servers for government business, and the Bush administration did as well. And when the Bush administration was ordered to turn over their emails, they destroyed them.

Clearly people who have committed the same crimes did not in fact end up in prison even though their name wasn't Clinton.

>>8752599
science needs to figure out private funding and maybe then science will have a greater mainstream appeal because they'll have to get it from regular people.

>>8754721
Private funding means relying on corporations, not regular people.

>>8754684
>yeah, those scary evil regulations that mandated basic safety practices
They mandated a hell of a lot more than that. It wasn't just safety, it was stuff like stopping railways from closing money-losing routes.

And the safety regulations weren't exactly limited to basic precautions. They mandated specific technical solutions to problems. This kind of thing prevented high-speed rail (a common convenience enjoyed in other advanced countries) from being developed in the USA.

>ever heard of the Naperville train crash of 1946?
Ever heard of the Big Bayou Canot train wreck of 1993? How about the Newark Bay rail accident of 1958? Train wrecks didn't stop happening, they just happened for different reasons as the industry was changed from dynamic and daring to stagnant and incompetent. Big death tolls mostly stopped because of the decline of passenger rail.

Do you have any idea how much less safe it is to travel on the highway now than by rail back then?

45 people dying in a train wreck was national news because it happened all at once, and because serious rail accidents were so scarce. 45 people dying in car crashes happens literally twice every day in the USA.

Imagine if the government decided that they had to regulate automobile operation so under one thousandth as many deaths would happen on it. The streets would be empty.

>>8754728
>45 people dying in a train wreck was national news because it happened all at once, and because serious rail accidents were so scarce. 45 people dying in car crashes happens literally twice every day in the USA.
long-distance rail transit at its peak was something like 100 million a year. there are that many cars on the road each day.
fewer deaths from rail accidents weren't the result of safety, but rather of comparatively lower ridership.

automobiles are already regulated for safety OUT THE WAZOO. and somehow car companies manage to stay in business.

>>8754741
> and somehow car companies manage to stay in business.
The US automotive industry has been incredibly weak on the world stage under Obama precisely because of the absurd level of regulation that he has placed on them over the years. His 54 mpg demand was downright absurd. That's why car manufacturers in the US are so relieved to have Trump as president. One of the first things he did was roll back Obama's ridiculous overreach.

>>8754645
Already responded to that. the 87% figure is false and is referring to biomedical research in general. Also, the national cancer institute receives the most funding of all the suborganizations in the NHS.

>>8754647
What? there was way more funding increases to cancer research under Obama than mental health. The NIH doesn't spend anywhere near 20% of it's budget on mental health, and considering how large of a cut that is, expect research into cancer, alzheimers, and other fatal diseases to also suffer.

https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/what-we-do/nih-almanac/appropriations-section-1

>>8754754
*NIH

>>8754754
> Already responded to that. the 87% figure is false and is referring to biomedical research in general.
Yes, the 87% figure is biomedical research in general. The NIH is even worse than biomedical in general because there is simply no incentive to actually do anything worthwhile and people get positions based on having a vagina or dark skin rather than actual ability. NIH is basically just a festering shithole of tokenism and largess.

>>8753398
The government was ensuring all the shitty loans as a way to force them being made in the first place. The bailout was implied on day one, you wonder why a housing bubble hasn't happened in a hundred years before that or why Europeans had derivatives and didn't have a housing bubble.

>>8754741
>fewer deaths from rail accidents weren't the result of safety, but rather of comparatively lower ridership.
Absolute bullshit. Passenger rail death tolls per mile are drastically lower than automotive ones, go back as far as you like.

For a railroad to have a train crash was a terrible cost in both money and reputation, and there was enough money involved in their operation to hire people to work things out. They didn't need any additional incentive or guidance in avoiding them, indeed the presumption that the government either cared more or was more capable of determining how best to operate safely is ridiculous.

>automobiles are already regulated for safety OUT THE WAZOO. and somehow car companies manage to stay in business.
Oh, so tell me how demanding the regulatory procedure is to get approved to operate a car. Tell me about the application process for choosing a route and schedule for a car journey.

Automobiles are extremely lightly regulated by comparison to the rules that strangled passenger rail.

>>8753419
>you have to let them in or they'll kill you

Thats not how it works, why can't non white countries get their shit together.

>>8753440
>im okay with genocide as long as we prevent war.

>>8753457
The world is already divided by race and it prevent racial tension these people aren't coming here because they want multiculturalism, they simply want money, and guess what the only people who give a shit about global warming are white people

>>8754752
>The US automotive industry has been incredibly weak on the world stage under Obama precisely because of the absurd level of regulation that he has placed on them over the years.
you seem to be forgetting that the auto industry crashed BEFORE Obama was even president, in the aftermath of an energy crisis. it wasn't mileage standards imposed by the government; it was consumers moving away from SUVs and trucks (which have low mileage by their very nature) due to higher fuel costs. unfortunately, those big inefficient vehicles were the bread and butter of automakers due to the higher profit margin on them. in other words, the auto industry crash was caused by the very same MARKET FORCES that you libertarian sperglords think will solve all problems.
not only did things go down the tubes before Obama was elected, the auto industry took a hit AROUND THE WORLD. how the hell is it the fault of US mileage standards if China and Russia and the EU also had to bail out their automakers at the same time?

just the usual /pol/ack revisionist history, nothing to see here.

>>8753188
The Ethics of Greed

>>8754762
>baseless claims

I'm sure you'd get a position in the NIH, considering how much you suck Trump's cock.

>>8754470
What is all tech based on? Physics.
How can you be so shortsighted.

>>8753609
>I bet you think Enron was the fault of too much regulation also

it was because government regulates who can be in energy and they handed monopoly power to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjsMR7RaeeQ

File: come on now.jpg (26KB, 600x375px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 600x375px

>>8754767
>Passenger rail death tolls per mile are drastically lower than automotive ones, go back as far as you like.
compare passenger rail c. 1945 to modern automobile deaths per passenger-mile and get back to me. modern (regulated) automotive transport is safer than pre-regulation rail. (and yes, that's what you originally compared >>8754728)
it's like the people who think Chicago is more dangerous than the Old West because there are more murders there per year than in Deadwood...completely neglecting to normalize to population.

>so tell me how demanding the regulatory procedure is to get approved to operate a car. Tell me about the application process for choosing a route and schedule for a car journey.
>comparing personal use of a vehicle to commercial operation of a mass transit system
pic related

are you aware that safety features in consumer automobiles are tightly regulated and mandated by the federal government?

>>8753783
Or the costs of dealing with it the wrong way aka "carbon credits".