Is chaos essential in science and math? If you believe so, why

I think chaos it is a result of factors in our universe that exist yet cannot be observed / measured by us. Perhaps with time we will be able to measure and accurately calculate chaos, the implications of such would be earth shattering.

>>8633521
>>8633514
if we could calculate chaos p = np

>>8633514
Just let black-clothed science man explain it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-mpifTiPV4

>>8633521
It definitely would. It is bizarre we still can't explain something that would seem so simple such as the "randomness' of the double pendulum. I know many professors hate when chaos and randomness are confused. Chaos theory, like many theories were ridiculed by academics for a long period of time but chaos has held it's ground for some time. Much more plausible and accepted now than say like the "stoned ape theory".

>>8633535
OP here. I was listening to a TTC lecture while I was laying in bed last night and the theory is so intriguing; I can see why it has made it's way into Hollywood occasionally. I don't remember that from Jurassic Park and I haven't seen the butterfly effect. Is that latter at all any good or "accurate"?

>>8633535
Guy was just trying to get laid. haha

>>8633514
>>8633521
>>8633526

this happens when people interpret something they dont understand. Chaos simply means that a small change of the system has huge consequences for its future. These consequences can be very different from each other even when only a small change occured in the phase trajectory of the system. this kind of behavior occurs in non-linear dynamics. Chaos is not random. Chaos is well defined, randomness is something different.

>>8633571
scientists need to go back to writing in latin desu

>>8633571
also neurons show chaotic behavior in their spiking, which can be described by 3rd and 4th order differential equations.

File: 1463897953363.png (197KB, 294x256px) Image search: [Google]

197KB, 294x256px

>it's a "non-experts try to reason about a subject based on common usage of the words involved" episode

Latency seems to be a key factor in chaos. The longer a change takes to propagate, the more it will have unpredictable effects in some future state.

Like gases: a small chamber of gas is predictable because changes can propagate throughout before anything else can happen.

The earth's atmosphere is so large that propagation delays spawn other events minutes, hours, or even further into the future - we call it weather but it's chaos rising from the fact that changes in one place take a long time to have an effect at some other place, during which time a lot has happened before the feedback mechanism can kick in.

>>8634091
dude... you know that the change doesnt take longer to propagate, its only that the system is much more complex and until the change gets to the other side of the world, it the consequences led to even greater changes in other areas and influenced even more aspects of the system, which cannot happen if the air just travels 1 meter and then hits a wall and cant interact with something. but the speed at which the change propagates is the fucking same.

>>8633584
But anon, according to Godel's incompleteness theorem, [philosophy].

>>8634112
>speed at which the change propagates is the fucking same.
Yeah but in really big systems, this can have knockon effects that take a long time to come back around.

So I suppose it's like a signal that is based on a complex equation that includes a term representing that same signal from a long-past previous state.

That's what occurred to me anyway, when I was pondering chaos. I'm sure it can be explained better but I'm sure that latency and feedback in combination give rise to chaotic behaviour.

Why doesn't an oil drum full of air have a climate? Changes in one place equalise way before anything interesting can happen.

Jesus Christ, anons. Chaos Theory just refers to dynamical systems with very high sensitivity to changes in initial conditions.

That's it.

Those systems can be extremely complex, like the weather, or they can be very simply, like a double pendulum. The literal fucking poster for chaos theory, the Lorenz Attractor, is a clearly constrained system that is described by 3 simple equations and 6 terms.

Please stop imbuing mysticism into this shit and quantum mechanics.

>>8634192
are you retarded ? I just said this
over 9k posts ago.
>>8633571
also see
>>8633584

>pls dont ignore my posts

>>8634131
Like with the Lorenz waterwheel, the fuller the buckets are, the more momentum and inertia they have, so they might whizz past the spout, meaning the change in weight it gained takes longer to alter the behaviour of a wheel compared to a stationary bucket that would respond more directly and less chaotically.

>>8634195
I know, anon. But people are still talking about it like you didn't say anything. I was hoping to help drown out the stupid with some actual information.

>>8634192
>3 simple equations
Period Three Implies Chaos.

are all n-body problems>3 inherently chaotic?

>>8634204
>Period Three Implies Chaos

I mean, yeah. But nobody comes and makes a thread with F: R →R as the subject.

>>8634216
It's pretty easy to construct very simple chaotic systems, yes. This whole thread is useless though, as most of the people who have posted are mixing up several different concepts. I wouldn't bother with this thread, it will go absolutely nowhere.

>>8633514
In short: Yes

>>8633584

> it's an anon gets defensive over nothing thread

lmaoing @ ur life kiddo