Why isn't CS respected here?

>>8618008
Everything is a meme here. You can even see people saying E.E/math/physics are a meme

>>8618012
true even math is a meme.

>>8618008
because CS hardly ever actually means CS, it means "generic shitty computing program for brainlets who want to do TI or something"

also what you listed is a CS/Math double major:

CS:
>Algorithms
>Data Structures
>Computational Complexity
>Cryptography
>Machine Learning

The rest isn't really core CS, you will use only the most basic stuff of fields like statistics and number theory unless you specialize on them

Christian Science is no more science than string theory.

>>8618018
My graduate ML course uses advance mathematics. Essentially you needed to have been either a stats or math major to take the course. 2 weeks in and 0 code. All mathematics and 0 discussions of applications. Still don't see why CS is a meme. It is an extension of my pure math degree.

>>8618023
what "advanced mathematics" do you use? Without failure, anyone using the phrase "advanced mathematics" is using at most undergrad introductory math

>>8618032
take my course, you'd fail out.

>>8618008
>>Algorithms
You mean "algorithms". Real algorithms are those studied in number theory were you rigorously prove a non-trivial result about one.

>>Geometry
You mean "geometry". Any non-rigorous, non-axiomatic treatment of geometry is lacking at best.

>>Data Structures
I'll give you this one. As Wildberger stresses, mathematicians would really benefit from studying more data structures outside of programming courses.

>Combinatorics
>Category theory
>Homotopy Type Theory
>Logic
>Computational Complexity
>Cryptography
>Number theory
>Abstract Algebra
>Machine Learning
>Linear Algebra
>Real Analysis
>Measure theory
>Probability theory

You mean "insert all of that".

>>8618037
no answer? that's what I thought. I'm sorry you find calculus 1 and stats for dummies hard

>>8618040
I did pure math. I meant what I wrote.

>>8618044
It is an at elite school. Doubt you'd get in. Did pure math. Doubt you could do that.

>>8618049
>I'M SMAAAAART REEEEEEEEEEEE
still not posting what you're doing

>>8618045
>I meant
You mean you "meant" what you wrote.

CS courses in mathematics are not rigorous. No math course outside of the pure mathematics department is even remotely rigorous. I say this from experience. All of my friends are engineering or computer science majors. It doesn't even compare.

From the first semester when we are just doing calculus the difference is fucking huge.

>>8618054
I'm not posting anything to identify myself. Also, in grad courses you don't focus on grades/exams. It is about producing publishable research. The ML version you are thinking of is the level of an undergrad course.

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>>8618044

Not him. But 90% dropped out after 3 semester of my degree + 70-90% failrate dependent on subject in some exams is not that rare here.

>>8618057
I took calculus like a dozen years ago. Calculus isn't rigorous in the math department since plebs like you take it. Analysis should be required for all engineering/CS/physics fags instead.

>>8618058
>the ML version you are thinking of
you can read minds now?
you wouldn't need to post anything to identify your sorry ass, just ATTEMPT TO SAY what the fuck you're using from math so I can call bullshit at how ridiculous it sounds and make fun of you for being a lying brainlet

CompSci is just getting the beep boops to math for you because you can't pencil.

Faggot.

>>8618063
Kek. No fuck off. I did pure math, I know what rigor is unlike you.

>>8618059
seems like a pretty standard program, why are you posting this?

>>8618061
>Calculus isn't rigorous in the math department since plebs like you take it.

What? I don't really understand this phrase right here. What do I have to do with calculus courses?

>Analysis should be required for all engineering/CS/physics fags instead.

It should, but that is not the current reality. And you know if they changed that and they made those fags learn a rigorous calculus course like math majors do, all of them would fail.

>>8618065
What are you some kind of rigor nigger

>>8618061
if analysis was required people would be much less inclined to enroll on a larger scale

in other words universities wouldn't be able to milk tuition as much as they do now

>>8618065
kek you're lying, you didn't do math and you're a CS freshman

>>8618066

To answer people like
>>8618018
>>8618040
>>8618044

I doubt that most University have such a math-heavy background. Especially not in the US.

>>8618067
They should teach all CS/Physics/Engineering majors Analysis using Rudin as a first exposure to Calculus. If they fail then good.

>>8618068
yes

>>8618074
math heavy? calculus based ODEs is a standard capstone or engineering math in any university. you might not realize that europe calls calculus "mathematical analysis" and think it's actually analysis

>>8618075
>he's using the /sci/ Rudin meme to pretend he knows math
oh boy

>>8618073
Says the pleb that doesn't know k-theory. Go back to your kiddy pre-calc course.

>>8618077
>t. someone with Calc I-III with just 3 credits each and washed down curriculum

>>8618083
>I'll namedrop some topic of math and give absolutely no detail so I don't show I don't know anything about it
impressing absolutely nobody lmao

>>8618088
it's rather surprising you'd have actual mathfags on this board unlike you, i know, it is shocking

>>8618092
>I swear I'm a mathfag like you guys! let me it in!
nope still convincing nobody

lmao i know quite a few guys doing CS, they all think "analysis" (ie. eurocalc) is the epitome of math

i don't look down on cs, but don't act like it's heavy on math unless you do some very specific graduate program

>>8618092
>actual fags

>>8618075
>They should teach all CS/Physics/Engineering majors Analysis using Rudin as a first exposure to Calculus. If they fail then good.

Decided to see the index for the book and I don't really see how that is good introductory book.

I mean, going back to my freshman year all the topics listed there: Introductory abstract algebra, introductory topology and introductory analysis (limits, continuity, the calculus parts) were things covered in 3 different courses, not one. The 3 courses were taken alongside each other but cramming the study of fields and topology into a calculus course is a bit overboard.

I would instead recommend the treatment I got. One full introductory abstract algebra class, one full introductory analysis class, and one full introductory topology class. All taken alongside each other.

>>8618074
Are you literally the same single german-fag who posts this shit on every other thread? Holy shit dude.

>>8618080
Then go with "Advanced Calculus" by Shlomo Zvi Sternberg and Lynn Harold Loomis

or

"Introduction to Calculus and Analysis, Volume I" by Richard Courant and

>>8618096
I'm not responding to an engineering pleb.

>>8618104
>he realized I'm using the /sci/ meme! better google some other books!
I was puzzled by why you would pick that odd first book, no wonder, it's the first result in google for several searches involving "advanced calculus" books :^)

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>>8618102
Feel uncomfortable seeing this and comparing it to US standards?

>>8618111
I didn't google/

>Commutative Ring Theory (Hideyuki Matsumura)

>Algebraic Geometry (Robin Hartshorne)

>Linear Representations of Finite Groups (Jean-Pierre Serre and Leonhard Scott)

Are all classics. Not books you'd google and copy/paste results of.

>>8618117
dude it doesn't have any math
stop

As I said I >>8618118 did real math as an undergrad unlike you >>8618111

>>8618118
The ultimate punchline to you trying to convince everyone on /sci/ that you're a serious academic, is that you post on /sci/.

>>8618118
oh so after a string of 10 retarded posts of
>hurr I don't want to say anything but I'm totally a math major hurr im a graduate student in CS it uses tons of math like meme theory
you suddenly start posting something that makes sense? I call bullshit, you used math stack exchange

>>8618117
Not particularly, since you have different naming conventions, and even if that weren't the case I have no reason to believe this is the basic curriculum. For example, why would Math for Insurance or w.e be for computer science?

It just blows my mind that I've seen you post that same pic and talk about "muh german university" in soooooo many fucking topics.

>>8618121
i published as an undergrad certainly dont need to impress an engineer like you :^)

>>8618124
The only explanation is i'm not bullshitting and did pure math and now in CS.

Stackexchange doesn't know about shit like:
>Foundations of Differentiable Manifolds and Lie Groups - (Frank Warner)

>>8618008
>>Homotopy Type Theory
why do people leapfrog over vanilla type theory as if it doesn't exist, even though it's actually a well-developed subject and already contains most all of the interesting insights

>>8618132
cool now why don't we get go back to square one without you acting like an autist? WHAT MATH DO YOU ACTUALLY USE IN ML? holy fuck

>>8618129
Not the guy you've been shit-googling to but you're a faggot dude, kys.

Anyways I'm about to start a ML course that I've been cramming all winter for. To actually answer the question about what math is involved:

Linear Algebra, Multivariate Calculus, Probability. You can name a bunch of subfields like information theory and etc, but in the end this is the meat and potatoes needed to begin understanding ML theory.

>>8618132
I think you're such an enormous insecure faggot that you're making up those book titles.

>>8618136
sorry but this is shit. I'm asking the guy who claims to be taking a math intensive ML class

>>8618139
no they're classics, and the choice of topics is also pristine (algebra master race)

he's legit, he's just shit at communicating and flies into an autistic rage for no reason

>>8618135
I want to purposely not answer to piss you off and make you believe all we do is non-linear classifiers

>>8618140
This is what ML is about. Obviously as a rich non-brainlet field it can get arbitrarily complex.

Like, if someone told you they were getting a PhD in linear algebra would you say it's shit?

No, you fucking retard. Because as a basic field it has significant depth.

OP here, ok i'm done trolling. I was bored, sorry to shit this board up.

>>8618156
next time I'll just reply to your memes with my classic pasta you autist

Real OP here, I'm an unironic CS major and I demand to be taken seriously.

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>>8618159
to be real i did o pure math, now doing cs. i just wanted to shitpost. i can be serious. i just needed an outlet. you'll be able to identify me in future shitpost threads if 1) it's around "why is cs a meme:" and then 2) mention topics that i claim every computer scientist use (which is false).

>>8618165
yeah, whatever
sleep well and hope your research gives fruitful publications

>>8618173
thanks, ditto to you. I'm genuinely sorry for the shitpost. you're a good anon.

>>8618177
hey man, 4chan is 4chan. I come here to meme and get memed

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>>8618185
good way to look at it. i get stressed out and use this to vent and shitpost.

>>8618185
i'm someone else and i admit that you are 'thegoodanon'

>>8618008
I'm about to complete my degree and I feel like a complete retard compared to some of you guys.

>>8618008
>>Algorithms
Easy as fuck
>>Geometry
CS majors don't study this
>>Data Structures
Easy as fuck
>>Combinatorics
CS majors don't study this (NO, a few lectures in discrete "math" doesn't count)
>>Category theory
CS majors don't study this
>>Homotopy Type Theory
CS majors don't study this
>>Logic
CS majors don't study this (NO, a few lectures in discrete "math" doesn't count)
>>Computational Complexity
>>Cryptography
CS majors don't study this (NO, a few lectures in discrete "math" doesn't count)
>>Number theory
CS majors don't study this (NO, a few lectures in discrete "math" doesn't count)
>>Abstract Algebra
CS majors don't study this (NO, a few lectures in discrete "math" doesn't count)
>>Machine Learning
CS majors don't study this
>>Linear Algebra
Easy as fuck
>>Real Analysis
CS majors don't study this
>>Measure theory
CS majors don't study this
>>Probability theory
CS majors don't study this (NO, a few lectures in discrete "math" doesn't count)

Therefore CS is a meme.

>>8618260
where were you when CS was blown the fuck out?

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>>8618268
no where because you guys didn't read >>8618165

>>8618260
/thread

>>8618260
>tfw the only people who study not "easy as fuck" classes are math majors
>even physics majors math majors ass buddies don't study any of these topics in a normal university
>even math majors don't study many of these topics in a normal university
>decides topics that are clearly in the domain of computer science aren't computer science
just kill yourself after masturbating to your "300k starting" job (ps: you're going to work at maybe a bank).

>>8618330
Didn't you know? Every anon on /sci/ is in Harvard's math/physics program and breezed through Math 55, and totally not at a shitty second-tier state school.

>>8618018
learned about the majority of that in second year m8

>>8618074
>as wondering how this pic refutes the point
>prime example of CS fag thinking his courses are "math heavy" and "rigorous"

>>8618330
At an undergrad level those math classes are a fucking joke even at top universities.

>>8618008
A great list of subjects, no doubt.
CS students. A terrible cohort to learn them.
As a result, they only study the basics. Some of those subjects don't even get studied until graduate level, at which point maths/physics/engineering (I've also seen direct entry to postgraduate from backgrounds in pol sci, art and midwifery) begin studying CS.
For real, ask around your CS department to find out how many mathematicians there are...
CS is sort of a hub for intersecting fields, and there is a huge divide between undergraduate CS and postgraduate CS. Even at the undergraduate level, you can get vast differences in the knowledge of students.
You can't simply say "look at all these subjects that intersect with CS in some way, aren't we smart?" when you know that the majority of CS either never touch them or only scratch the surface.

>>8618260
your life is a meme

>>8618260
>algorithms
>easy as fuck
why dont you participate in fb hacker cup or google codejam or topcoder open then and get big bucks? and ACM ICPC if you're in college? the answer is because you don't know shit about algorithms

>>8618463
no, you took a shitty introductory class on them in second year, m8

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>>8618260
>CS majors don't study cryptography
(You)

>>8618059
>Mathematics of Life Insurance
what is taught in that course?

>>8618008
Because it attracts huge retards for some reason. Ive worked with hundrets of programmers and data scientists, those with a degree in maths are almost always superior to the cs people.

I think its because it attracts all the people who didnt think further than "I want to make video games". I dont think a CS degree is a meme though, assuming that you picked real courses and not just the easiest ones.

>>8619114
probably statistics, and risk management.

>>8619151
I went into CS thinking that I would never want to game dev as a job, but seeing patreon whore peddle their nukige makes me think it might be a good idea`

>>8619217
Yeah but then you wouldnt need to study CS, just do a course in unreal engine or something like that.

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>>8618008
>8008
nice.

Seeing as I'm a self respecting 4chan lurker, I wouldn't want to create a whole thread dedicated to my question, so I'll use this thread as a related platform.
I recently had a C++ class where I learned about importing and exporting data from and to files in a very basic way. That day I wrote a simple program that gets a number, and finds all the prime numbers up to it. A few tweaks and modifications ensued in the following day or two, and one thing lead to an other, and now I've got half a gigabyte of what I assume to be all prime numbers up to 1 billion in a text file.
What can I do with this file? I can't even open it up in Notepad.

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>>8619402
There are several improvements within my limited capabilities and knowledge that can be performed with the code, but so far it seems to work relatively okay. It has an obnoxiously long loading time that keeps on growing as long as the file grows. Currently, it takes about 20 minutes before it even starts checking numbers.

>>8619416
cout is slow, if your goal is to store the numbers in a file, skip the on-screen printing and just give updates in regular intervals so the user knows how far the program got.

Storing such a large amount of numbers in a text file is inefficient aswell, since youll need several bytes per number. Store them in binary format or something similar instead.

>>8619402
how come notepad can't deal with 0.5gb files, do you have too little ram?
you could try saving your results in chunks and writing multiple files

>>8618330
You mad, CSboi?

>>8618008
>you can probably solve that with less than 60 characters in Perl 5, maybe 10 with the appropriate regexp.

python is the cancer of CS, and has enabled a lot of brainlets into the field thus killing it.
Mathematics require levels of abstraction that weed out brainlets.
Physics require levels of intuition and math that weed out brainlets.
Engineering require levels of intuition, math and time management that combined usually weed out brainlets.

Therefore we come here to banter at each other with memes such as
>math majors are all autists
>lol dark matter what's next physicucks?
>engineers are all retarded
and then we unironically shit on and laugh at lesser beings such CS and lib arts majors.

>>8619402
cross compare here:
http://www.umopit.ru/CompLab/primes32eng.htm

>>8618008
because most "CS people" are just womemes filling diversity quotas

>>8619402
g-give me a break anon are you telling me you are bruteforcing the primality test?

Use this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AKS_primality_test you moron

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>>8618008
What if I double major in CS and statistics and minor in math?

I'd be taking these math courses (combined from the three, with some overlap)

My CS requires (for math stuff):
calc 1-3 w/ analytical geometry
linear algebra
proofs
combinatorics
discrete math
graph theory
logic
algebraic structures
limits of computability
enumeration + discrete probability + randomness in computing
set manipulation
tractable + intractable functions (cs theory)
bayesian methods
support vector machines
predictive modeling
And then a bunch of more applied classes, like low level computer science, high level stuff (ai + security + crypto + databases)

My stats requires
probability + mathematical stats 1-3
resampling inference
applied stats + experimental design
applied regression + ANOVA
real analysis 1 + 2
diff eq

and then the math minor is pretty much covered except also requires "linear analysis"

Would I be a good computer scientist after this? or is it memey neckbeard tier

>>8621098
At this point, why not just do a math degree and sneak some CS modules in?

>>8621098
If you don't already know CS before going to college, you're not going to be a good "computer scientist". All of the experts have been doing it since they were kids/teens.

CS is a busy major but doesn't require you to think deeply and creatively. infact, creativity is looked down on in CS.

>>8618008
Most CS majors don't learn all of that. There is usually one Discrete course Jan packed with stuff, a linear algebra course, and a probability and statistics course. Very few colleges in the US require much hard math for a CS degree.
>>8618059
Closer to what CEs would do here if you add in DLD, networks, an embedded course, and electronics.

>>8618260
/thread

>>8621513
>>8618008

Those are all essentially math subjects. Do you know any CS majors that can explain adjoints in category theory?

The underlying theory of ML is statistics and math. You will cover the material more deeply if you take the class from the statistics department. The programming is the easiest part.

>>8618008
Does Programming have books like Rudin's Analysis? I mean like very rigorous shit. I'd like to learn maybe C or C++ with algorithm analysis and shit but it all seems geared toward retards.

>>8621522
Rudin is more about understanding something.
Whereas programming is about building shit.

>>8621530
i know. it should be analogous due to its rigour, difficulty, emphasis on mastery, etc...

>>8621538
a cult books in CS that most CS people never even heard about is "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs"

>>8618260
This isn't correct. My university had two different options, one which covered virtually every topic you listed and one that got you a business minor but which covered less of these.

Honestly, if you didn't take the free business minor, you were a moron.

>>8621560

That's more like Lang's Basic Mathematics. It's only hard if you're in high school.

>>8621522

The Art of Computer Programming by Knuth is the only book that comes close to Rudin but he defines his own autistic assembly language for the book. "Elements of Programming" by Stepanov and "An Introduction to the Analysis of Algorithms" by Sedgewick and Flajolet are more mathematical than the usual books.

Look what we've created! Euler would be proud

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>>8621942

>>8618018
>also what you listed is a CS/Math double major:

depends on the school.

>>8621939
Isn't CLRS superior and more comprehensive than the Sedgewick book?

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>>8618008
>Why is CS a meme here?
A lot of CS programs aren't that rigorous, therefore they don't get respect.
I go to one of UW's other campuses (not a CS major, tho), and this is their curriculum. Nothing that crazy, but makes you employable for a decent job at least.

>>8622261
>>8621098

I go to UW's main campus and their curriculum is great imo

>>8622261
What is VLPA and I&S?

>>8622261
>2 programming courses
>2 data structure courses
>no compilers, programming language theory, theory of computation, computer security, or networks
>no linear algebra, probability and stochastic processes, proofs, numerical analysis, etc

Shit/10

>makes you employable for a decent job at least.

You can get a coding job with a high school degree.

>>8622334
yeah uw bothell/tacoma are like community colleges compared to the Seattle campus. at least in the seattle campus they have to take more math and theory

>>8622248

Sedgewick has 3 books. A gay "Algorithms" book in java with Wayne which you're referring to, a detailed Data Structures and Algorithms book called "Algorithms in C++, Parts 1-4 (Fundamental Algorithms, Data Structures, Sorting, Searching), Part 5 (Graph Algorithms)", and 2 part book that's more mathematical than the typical CS books written with Flajolet called "An Introduction to the Analysis of Algorithms" and "Analytic Combinatorics".

>>8621939
the problems in SICP are not that easy. I agree you don't need any experience for it, but i wouldn't count it as easy.

OP here. Can't believe my troll thread caused so much discussions.

I did pure math, now doing CS. Best of both worlds.

>>8622334
>no compilers, programming language theory, theory of computation, computer security, or networks

That's usually what ends up going where the other 25 credits for CS electives go. People usually take security/networks/database stuff. And some of the electives require linear algebra, so it's all dependent on what kind of shit the student wants to get into. But, yes, it's very milquetoast.

>You can get a coding job with a high school degree.
I'm not exaggerating, there are people who graduate from there making $100k starting, not everyone but it's not uncommon. The local economy is nuts for cs/programmers.

>>8622962

Compilers, programming language theory, and theory of computation are core classes you should never be able to skip.

>there are people who graduate from there making $100k starting

That's due to going into programming, not their degrees.