Are physics or math majors smarter?

>>8560259
Probably math majors for 2 reasons.

1) It is a more theoretical degree.
2) It is a better economic choice as math majors make more money than physics majors in average.

>>8560263
>2) It is a better economic choice as math majors make more money than physics majors in average.
implying

>>8560259
Probably Physics because they need to know all the math, and apply it too.

>>8560274
>http://www.forbes.com/pictures/feki45ehdkl/17-mathematics-include/#716d0a8d541b

If forbes includes mathematics in its top 20 degrees with the highest starting salaries in 2016 and physics is nowhere to be seen then I think my point has been made.

>>8560284
>because they need to know all the math

They don't need to know all the math, they need to know all the calculus. Mathematics is more than calculus.

Physics is literally a 4 year calculus degree.

>>8560259
Well in terms of majors I'd say the physics people are smarter on average because mathematics degrees often have a lot of people who just want to become highschool teachers, some who want to work in finance.

So I think mathematics has a bigger ceiling and bottom when it comes to IQ.

>>8560300
True, where I live we have separate degrees for people who want to be teachers, and a lot of them are retarded. They want to teach mathematics, but they whine when they have to learn proofs and advanced math. They go into college thinking they have to learn stuff like basic arithmetic and geometry

>>8560286
Maybe if you go to a cuck country like US. In most of Europe countries, physicists are forced to go through 5 semesters of analysis, spanning all the way from differential calculus, lebesgue integral, differential forms, distribution theory, complex analysis, fourier series theory etc.

Seriously I don't even understand how the fuck is it allowed to become a physicist without going through all of those. You have to study like a motherfucker to understand all the proofs and work through some hardcore problems and theory, but maybe it's just our country.

>>8560312
Calculus is the English word for analysis

>>8560312
>5 semesters of analysis, spanning all the way from differential calculus, lebesgue integral, differential forms, distribution theory, complex analysis, fourier series theory

Those things, for the most part, are calculus. Which is my point. Also,

>5 semesters of analysis

You are bullshitting here. Math majors themselves don't get more than 3 semesters of analysis. Don't tell me you are counting Calc I to III and differential equations because... no. No.

> to understand all the proofs

Since when do non-mathematicians have to work through proofs

And even if you aren't lying about anything here, you are still wrong about your original statement. When you said that

> they need to know all the math, and apply it too.

This obviously does not mean that they learn all the math a math major would learn and then on top of that they need to learn to apply it.

It just means they learn a couple of topics related to physics (calculus) and then learn to apply those specific topics.

>>8560259
Definitely math

>>8560284
No, they just know enough to get the job done. They can't prove shit.

>>8560317
Not him, but I study computer science and in all my math classes we have to go through the proofs for all rules and lemmas. It's why calculus has a 60% failure rate for us

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>>8560259
>Dick-Waving Contest: The Board
This is like console wars on /v/.

>>8560317
I'm not the fag who talked about the application. I'm from the Czech Republic and let me tell you that the math courses we have to go through are twice as hadrcore as mathematician's. Calculus of variations is a second semester topic for us and you have to understand everything a math major does, including the proofs (from which you have to take an oral exam, which is a third part of the overall real analysis exam).

I'm not bullshitting, faggot. We literally have 5 fucking semesters of analysis every single semester, filled with shitloads of theory and everybody has to fucking learn everything, including the proofs. Math majors don't get to see calculus of variations until the fourth semester.

>Calculus is english word for Analysis

top fucking kek, retard. The only people who take calculus on our faculty are people who take financial mathematics, which is a dumbed the fuck down course that actually has what your people take in the university - calculus.

>>8560320
Okay, fair enough. But I don't understand why.

At my uni we have separate calculus courses and as far as I know we are the only ones who learn calculus in the traditional structure of
>definitions
>theorems
>proofs
>repeat

My friends in engineering do not even know what the definition of a limit is, and that is usually the first definition studied in a calculus course. The same goes for derivatives and integrals. They just know the theorems to compute it.

>>8560317
Just to show you the extension of what we have to learn:

http://www.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~rcerny/skripta_MAF3.pdf

this is a study text that is written by our lecturer parallel to the lectures. It's still fucking missing like 50 pages on differential forms and you have to understand and know by heart every single fucking proof (důkaz in czech) you see there.

Tell me how the fuck is this your dum dum calculus

>>8560338
I only speak spanish and english m8. That said, the symbols do look like analysis so ok.

The main point stands though, you don't learn all the math, you learn some math. It just makes sense. You can't learn all the math and then all the physics in just 4 years unless they treated you like a slave

>>8560344
We fucking do, that's the shitty part. We literally have to learn 90% of what mathematicians have in their course and also physics on top of that, I shit you not. Physics is considered the hardest course in our faculty for a reason.

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>>8560259
God you faggots never end do you?
> what's better math or physics?
> what's Bette physics or engineering?

Truth is alone non of these is superior.
> Math
Math majors have to learn much more abstract concepts and apply it but math doesn't exactly describe everything perfectly. And it doesn't help explain things.
i.e math can find a piece wise decision modeling a phenomena but no reasoning

> physics
Physics is the application of math and the use of "critical reasoning" to try to explain nature and it's "laws." But physics itself could hav not advanced without math. Nor can every theoretical discovery be made into something tangible/useful.

Any renowned physicists or mathematician has the ability and knowledge to apply both.

>>8560312
But I will agree.... as a physics major her in the US we aren't taught much or at all. We learn from "tutorials" approach where the professor talks for 10 minutes then we get treated like fucking children and sit in groups with a workbook. I find ktself having to yeah myself the concepts and more math to compensate.
> pic related
> school claims its the best way to learn physics, statistically
> doesn't understand why everyone hates the program

>>8560346
That is impossible. There is no time! And it would also be dumb.

Half of the things in a mathematics curriculum are completely useless to physicists. You wouldn't learn number theory, you wouldn't learn set theory, you wouldn't learn logic, you wouldn't learn algebra, at least not in depth, you wouldn't learn the axiomatic versions of geometry/topology.

All those things are completely useless for physicists.

>>8560300
This.

>>8560352
m8 we literally have differential geometry in the third semester as a separate subject. Complete with all the rape you've seen in the previous studying text.

I just checked all the math courses that mathematicians have here and I have to correct myself, we in fact have more math than they do. They get to differential equations in the third semester, and finish the fourth analysis with calculus of variation. The only parts of math that they take we don't have to are numerical mathematics, discrete mathematics which is a laughable course in itself. Mathematics structures specialization has separate group theory course, which we got bundled in the second semester of algebra, but that's literally fucking it.

They don't even have distribution theory for fucks sake

>There is no time
Indeed, half of people who push into the next semester pull over like 1/3 of the subjects from the previous one at the very least.

>>8560356
>we literally have differential geometry in the third semester

This is fishy. We have differential geometry in the 8th semester after all the analysis and topology courses, and those courses are pre-reqs for differential geometry.

So either your differential geometry course is easier or you take topology and analysis in you first two semesters and I am going to say that there is no way they would teach topology and analysis to freshmen, specially topology because then that would imply you also learnt set theory before.

And I think that is the explanation. Your math courses are not like the courses with the same name that math majors take. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

Why would your uni which seems to have a really strong program for physicists have such a weak program for mathematicians.

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>>8560325
>We literally have 5 fucking semesters of analysis every single semester

>>8560356
your school is retarded

>>8560259
>Math is just a tool invented to help us physicists solve problems
that is objectively incorrect on that math was invented to keep track of shit and do business, and physicists don't solve problems.

>>8560372
That may be true from most angles, but the people who actually do get through are the cream of the crop tier physicists.

>>8560356
that's all really hard to believe. show course listings for both majors, please

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math brainlets on full damage control

>>8560481
>math has a 130 avg iq even when having double the amount of women
would be interesting to see this broken down by gender. p sure male mathematicians have the highest IQ

>>8560481
It is a well known fact that women have slightly lower IQs. Therefore, having ore women decreases the average IQ.

Mathematic has 50% women and the average is still 130, this means that the men have an IQ of 200 and the women an IQ of like 100. Meanwhile in physics you barely have women lowering your score.

Learn to read graphs dummy.

>>8560539
the IQ difference is 4 points, not enough to "200". Do you even know what 200 IQ means? There's like 100 guys with that IQ in the world. Best case is 140 men, 120 women.

>>8560539
>Mathematic has 50% women and the average is still 130, this means that the men have an IQ of 200 and the women an IQ of like 100.

Gonna go ahead and ignore the joke and post:

>t. math major

Math majors choose the easy problems of new, useless fields. Physics majors are left with the hard problems math majors skipped.

>>8560577
>Physics majors are left with the hard problems math majors skipped.

>What is mathematical physics

That's the only field of physics where the problems are actually hard and surprise surprise, the people participating in it are Papa Cedric, PhD in mathematics.

In every other field the problem is
>Uhh, not enough evidence m8 xDDDDD

>>8560327
European here. Engineers get the epsilon-delta definition I think the first lecture of the first course they take. It's literally the first thing they learn.

Mind that calculus is covered (non-rigorously) in high school.

>>8560347
Godamn you had to use this text as well?

>>8560312
They only learn analysis though, and I doubt they take all those classes, at least in undergrad.

>>8560481
>nearly 50% women
who gives a shit about IQ i get to hit that SWEET MATH PUSSY

>>8560370
kek

>>8560286
I'm a mechanical engineer and I don't think I'm smarter than physicists or mathematicians, and we apparently make more than both of you.

>>8560300
I double majored in physics and math and this is definitely true. Almost everyone in physics was at least pretty smart, but in math there were tons of complete dipshits. On the other hand, the smartest students in the school were from the math department. But you have to also consider that there are a lot of math majors who can do nothing well except for math. There are physics majors who are this way as well, but in my experience, physics departments tend to have more Renaissance men.

>>8560481
where is accounting? That is a woman's field if there ever was one.

>physics
dude just make shit up when your results don't match your hypothesis lmao

>>8560325
>calculus of variations is hard
you wanna know how i know you're playing up the difficulty of your degree?

>>8560338
i know you posted that pdf to try and show us how difficult your classes are, but anon, that's not actually that bad looking over the symbols. i covered that and more in two quarters of my honors analysis course while i was at university, though it wasn't as computationally oriented as yours seemed to be. i was also taking 3 other classes each of those quarters

tl;dr you don't understand the actual difficulty of your degree relative to others, stop playing it up and just enjoy it

>>8561604

how can you be a dipshit but decent enough to do well as a math major, doesnt math require a lot of reading comprehension and logic

>>8561690
he means they were smart but didn't care for trivial bullshit like he does

>>8560338
>know by heart every single fucking proof (důkaz in czech) you see there.
you really expect anybody to believe this bullshit

your exam does not consist of rewriting a 200-page book.

>>8561708
to do hard math exams you need to be able to produce proofs to all the material and related, new questions quickly

that said, his tale of the undergrad physics program that has more math than a masters in math is hard to believe

>>8561712
>you need to be able to produce proofs to all the material
no you don't. that's the point.

No exam can possibly test you on every single proof in a 200-page book. Not only is there not enough time on any final anybody writes to do that, no book is written so densely that every single page has a theorem critical enough to be tested on and difficult enough to have to learn.
If he can't tell what's core and what's tangential and thinks he needs to learn "all of it" by memory that's not his course being hard, that's him being stupid.

>>8560481
>math nearly 50% female

Kek, stay mad, physicuck.

>>8561596
Ouch.

>>8560286
>Physics is literally a 4 year calculus degree.

wat

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>math majors

>>8562079
It is true though. Tell me one physics concept which cannot be explained through some kind of analysis/calculus.

That is all it is. A 4 year calculus degree where every year you learn new applications of calculus. You don' learn set theory, number theory, algebra (pure algebra, not related to some analysis concept), logic, etc. Just really advanced calculus. That is when people say that they are better that differential equations than math majors... I believe them. Of course they are, they have a degree in calculus.

>>8562102
>That is when people say that they are better that differential equations than math majors... I believe them. Of course they are, they have a degree in calculus.

Holy fuck. Correction:

That is why when people say that they are better at differential equations than math majors... I believe them. Of course they are, they have a degree in calculus.

>>8560323
Welcome to /sci/ newfriend, I hope you enjoy the 1 = 0.99999... and IQ comparison threads :)

>>8562084
Anyone who doesn't post a picture with timestamp with the girl they fucked for christmas naked on their bed is a confirmed virgin, sex-starved cuck. And probably a male feminist.

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>>8562116
>>8562084

>>8562084
>computer science only 40% virgin

This triggers me.

Also, all the math majors I know have girlfriends.

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>>8560481
>Health Professions
>Lower than psychology

>>8562084
This is /soc/ and /fit/ tier retardation.

>UR A VIRGIN NERD HUEHEHUE ME STRONKS POPULAR

>>8560653
Fucking horrible experience ever anon

It makes you rethink physics

>>8562138
Wat is that book?

>>8562130
virgin detected

>>8560259
>People legitimately believe that the more "theoretical" it is, the smarter you have to be to do it.

>>8562157
>that's because the ugly women who major in lepureabtraction with them are desperate and will take any inflatable coplimentary chromosome conduit they can get that isn't imitation

Here we have an old saying, probably first said by a philosopher: Hueco es hueco. Y si no, eres cueco.

This translates to: A hole is a hole. And if not, then you are gay.

Also.

POST THE PICS WITH TIMESTAMPS FOR THE GIRLS YOU FUCKED YESTERDAY FOR CHRISTMAS. Mr. I get so much more pussy than math majors.

I already posted mine >>8562119

What? Did Mr. Big man get no pussy yesterday? LOL poor bastard.

As a math graduate I would say that Physics people seem smarter to me since they need to know a decent amount of the pure stuff and are constrained within real world phenomena. Then again I could be wrong but I was just never good at Physics and Math always came much easier to me. Not being forced to account for real world physical constraints and just being constrained by logic seems much more freeing.

>>8561690
Did I say they did well? Obviously they didn't. Most were into economics or accounting which objectively take less math than physics.

>>8562084
Yeah I only lost my virginity after graduating. I was so into doing well and the content of my math courses I didn't really have dating on the mind.

There's so much linear algebra and combinatorics in undergrad physics. I'm baffled why everyone is saying it's just a calculus degree. Plus imo in physics the easy part is always the math. Obviously undergrad physics requires less math than a math major. Nobody was arguing otherwise.

>>8561670
DUDE DARK CORRELATION COEFFICIENT LMAO

Math here.

I feel like physics people are smarter only because I have no ability to do physics whatsoever. Although, I don't think Physicists have any idea how to do math.

>>8562084
math major here, can confirm

>>8562084
damn I need to get into studio art

>>8562158
is this the reason why /sci/ thinks mechanical engineers are so gay because it is one of the least theoretical field?

>>8562113
0.9999...=1 is an old meme the new version is of that meme is 1+2+3+...=-1/12
this is the analytic continuation of the zeta function at -1, what people don't understand is that this series is not equal to -1/12 but what equals -1/12 is the ANALYTIC CONTINUATION OF IT NOT THE SERIES ITSELF

>>8562102
Group theory (quantum fields, general relativity)
Differential Geometry (general relativity, classical mechanics to an extent)
Linear algebra (everything rly, especially dynamical systems and quantum)
Statistics (statistical mechanics although less than you'd expect)

I could go on but I'll stop

>>8562158
>physics is theoretical

>>8562158
that's true, because brainlets will call difficult, abstract fields "theoretical" like it means anything

>>8562254
I doubt you touch those topics on their pure form instead of in some relation to analysis.

For example. I doubt that you study group theory for its own merit, instead of studying group theory so that you can introduce lie groups.

Also

>Differential Geometry
>Differential
>Not related to calculus

wew my main lad

>>8562273
Ofc calculus is used so often. And of course those topics can be related to calculus. But it depends who you want to be. A pleb who calculates numbers or someone who can appreciate the larger overriding structures? The latter certainly requires math.

>>8562278
>The latter certainly requires math.

But is useless for physics.

Physics starts at calculus and ends at calculus. You won't study groups in the way mathematicians study them, you will learn what groups are, define lie groups and then use them as another tool to study differentiable manifolds. In other words, another tool to do more calculus.

>>8562280
That's pessimistic but to an extent I suppose yea. All calculations will reduce to calculus in the end. I don't rly care about that tho so maybe I'm biased since j ignore that stuff. You certainly won't appreciate them like the mathematicians will.

Can the use of magic mushrooms alter your IQ in a negative way?

>>8562307
>That's pessimistic

It is not pessimistic, it is at worse a bit derogatory. Everyone associates "calculus" with trivial but we have to be real.

I am simply stating these things because >>8560284 and other people think that physics = math + applications when in reality physics = math - logic - theory + applications

physics wouldn't exist without mathematics.

>ITT: math majors who never took a physics course beyond physics 1&2

If Math isn't physics, but is beyond physics, is it metaphysics?

>>8562315
Of course it would. You don't need math to do physics. Some models aren't mathematical at all. It's a language that you can almost always express your ideas in.

If I know literally no math and I say, "Heavy objects fall faster than light objects," I've done physics. Is this model good? Not particularly, but it works pretty well for most everyday objects on the surface of the earth, it can be tested (empirical), and it uses no math.

>>8562331
It isn't beyond physics. It exists totally separate and really has nothing to do with physics at all.

>>8562312
Look into micro dosing, there is strong evidence that psychedelic drugs actually increase your cognitive abilities

>>8560284
>>8562254
LMAO
This is what physics majors truly believe is "all the math"

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>>8560300
>>8562175
>>8562213

same fag

Physics majors are by average smarter. Math has more outliers.

>>8562313
I can agree to that. You don't have to care to do it or know how to prove most results rigourously. But I would say it can help a lot with cross disciplinary physics to be able to appreciate the maths on its own terms. I'm only a babby btw so this might turn out to be a pipe dream later.

Do even string theorists just do calculus?

>>8562359
Thanks, I've read that it can help with depression and motivation.

I'm trying to do some sports now. (Cycling)
But maybe the shrooms can help me too.

>>8562372
Nah I just thought it was some. Not gunna pretend even 10% of maths is used, or even slightly the same mindset

>>8560259
Math obviously. We physicists only apply what they have discovered.

>>8560259
Physics is just a particular case of differential geometry.

>>8560259
Pure math > theoretical physics > applied math >>>>>> experimental physics

>>8562402
>Do even string theorists just do calculus?

I am not a big physics guy but as as far as I know the 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... = -1/12 "meme" is a result used in string theory and if that is the case then probably yes. I mean, finding results for infinite sums has always and will always be the domain of calculus, regardless of what definition of convergence you use.

>>8560259
Engineers.

>>8562280
You're a fucking retard if you believe that. A good physicist is a good mathematician, and when you do understand the abstract you have a good chance at reformulating and connecting your theories in a different way.

See Emmy Noether

>>8562084
This is an all girl school. Hence why the percentages are so high on average. Girls always lie and also it being all girl I guess kinda helps too.

I'm applied math. Me smart.

>>8560259
Depends on the individual, as always.

>>8560327
Topkek. In France, we learn the definition of a limit in highscool.

>>8560312
So they learn analysis then... no algebra, no topology, no discrete math... etc? That's not all the math. That's just analysis.

>>8560481

The IQs of maths majors are severely brought down by students that want to teach math in K-12 I.e. math eduction majors. It would be more interesting to only compare the IQs of Pure Math students.

>>8560259
Define "smarter"

>>8560259
I know a physics major who compares himself to James Franco all the time. All the other Physics majors are cool but that dude is such a cunt.

>>8562250
You just have to redefine equality and summation to get the solution, retard.

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Physics majors probably. Anyone can do topology and algebra, but to find applications for those is something everyone can't do.

mathfag here
physical reality is the WORST meme
ZFC + non-standard set theories or bust

>>8560312
>In most of Europe countries, physicists are forced to go through 5 semesters of analysis, spanning all the way from differential calculus, lebesgue integral, differential forms, distribution theory, complex analysis, fourier series theory etc.
that is literally all Calculus you insufferable faggot
Take a set theory or an algebra course some time

>>8560356
sounds like a load of czech lies
where are the proofs
show syllabi

>>8560346
ayyy Spanish + English master race

>>8560577
>Physics majors are left with the hard problems math majors skipped.
quick, prove Woodin's Omega conjectuve
here's a crash course, you should be able to do it after skimming this pdf

>http://www.users.miamioh.edu/larsonpb/omegalogicmaster5.pdf

>>8561670
DUDE
DARK MATTER AND SHIT
LAUGHINNGMYFUCKKING A O xd

>>8562084
>studio art
damn i chose the wrong career path