Is math invented or discovered?

Invented

Discovered

>>8553549
So far it's invented

But hopefully one day we will be able to truly comprehend everything on a completely fundamental level

>>8553569
If we're doing serious answers now, it's invented. It's literally just a way to describe the universe

>>8553552
>>8553569
>>8553573
t. brainlets

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>>8553598

Dissented.

>>8553598
What's not invented

math is just a meme invented by a schizophrenic 5000 years ago and it stuck.

Couldn't you argue that certain engineering concepts like the equilibrium of planes, something so simple, were -discovered- by Archimedes?

only raging faggots post the same threads over and over again

>>8553549

It's discovered, OP. Each time this thread is done I correct the record.

A majority of posters have a mistaken view of what mathematics actually is, and their mistaken view as to why mathematics is essentially "invented" is easily picked apart with a little inquiry. Speaking roughly, the sentiment is about as ridiculous as "inventing" fire.

Anons like this one >>8553573 regularly confuse our /discourse-about-math/, our admittedly invented chosen arbitrary notational conventions about math itself, etc, with the content of mathematics itself, which is the stuff that we figure out and which persists independently of us. That's what is most properlly actually meant by mathematics. And it is strictly discovered.

People also regulalry try to hem-and-haw in order to rescue the arbitrary, lesser "invention" side of math per the above, that I've just intimated. They do this because they don't want to take a side in what is an interesting philosophical question which really only has one right answer that I happen to be providing a correct answer to.

>>8553648
Your response was essentially "I'm right" over and over again. I think justifying your response for discussion is great, but couldn't you say this issue isn't entirely black and white?

Perhaps we have been given clues for discovering numbers in the number of our digits for instance, but how does this necessarily find proposition 47 in Book one of Euclid's elements, for instance. The Pythagorean theorem is found using Postulates, at the core. And this are determined not discovered.

>>8553549
Digits are invented. The base 10 system is invented. Operations are invented. The results are discovered as they are only logical conclusions. Think of it as a modular maze. You can make pieces and put them together in just about any order. You invented a maze. You have to discover where it leads though.

>>8553654
not him but the idea is

we invent tools to study an underlying structure

>>8553673
I understand but this structure has to be necessarily defined not just by propositions, which you can say wait lying to be discovered, but postulates, which are proposed or dictated by the geometer.

>>8553549
Like colours it exists without observation, we assign it purpose and labels.

>>8553648
>>8553768
These are right, math is just our description for patterns which govern natural phenomena around us.

It is the main reason for math's "unreasonable effectiveness in the sciences"

The rules are invented and the logical consequences of those rules are discovered.

>>8553549
It was invented. Math is just a tool calculating, visualising all sorts of thing.

Both.

Generalization (number theory, fundamental theorems, etc...) is discovery and individual formulas and methods are invention. Think of all of human knowledge like a big sphere, with the center being the kernel of knowledge and the edge being boundless. An axiom starts you out somewhere away from the center. Going towards the edge of knowledge is invention, going towards the center is discovery. Both the edge and the center are unexplored areas.

>>8553673
Sometimes those inventions are mathematical methods.

>>8553607
math is just a meme discovered* by a schizophrenic 5000 years ago

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The degree to which a pair of objects would behave like the symbol "2" and lend itself to material operations analogous to immaterial Mathematical ones is negative.

It's not only invented, it's antagonistic.

>>8554025
I like that idea a lot.

>>8553666
Good answer

>>8553862
underrated post

>>8553862
are the rules imperfect approximations of platonic ideals?

Technology is invented, truth is discovered. Any math that's "invented" is just memes (like the -1/12 thing)

>>8553598
It's just a way of talking about things

>>8554025
Cool visualization, basically illustrates that math is a hybrid of art and science

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>>8553549
We invent the notation, but the relationships between mathematical objects are discovered.

Here's one for you guys:
>The only people who concern themselves with "philosophy" of math are those who are too dumb to actually learn about math.

Prove me wrong (protip: you can't)

>>8554588
Nah it's not about being dumb or not, it's more a matter of autism.

Many great mathematicians delved into the philosophy of math because they couldn't remain satisfied just plugging away at theorems and equations like an autistic robot.

>>8554602
>plugging away at theorems and equations
That's what engineers do, and it has nothing to do with actual mathematics.

Arguing about philosophical implications of mathematics is far more autistic and pathetic than accepting an axiom and using it to prove an interesting conjecture. The latter is obviously more involved than the former.

It's the exact same thing as people dropping out of difficult science degree programs in university, and go on to study business with the intent on managing scientists. The latter is only done by the people who couldn't handle the rigor of the science degree, and now want to control people who did finish their degree, because they feel inferior.

>>8554625
Engineers like Archimedes?

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She thinks it was invented. I agree.

>>8554625
are you talking about set theory?
what the fuck are you talking about?

>>8553549
Math was invented to explain the discovered. As example: You've a cake that you split. So you have a half cake and another half cake. That would be 0.5 and 0.5. Numbers/Math etc. just explain our discovery.

>>8554988
>tfw only capable of discovering things in this universe
>tfw not capable of discovering things in all universes

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>>8554992
It fucking hurts.

Obviously it is discovered. But that does not mean that it reveals much of the truth hiding behind what we observe. Just an infinitesimally small fraction of it.

Still, it's enough to help us do what we want.

>>8555021
next time, become mathematician, not baker

>>8555038
But he was born with a baker's mind. What is he supposed to do? Get a brain transplant?

>>8555043
derive analysis from cutting cakes in half

Math itself was discovered, its around us all the time. The language we use to represent math, on the other hand, was invented.

>>8555038
>As example
I like to give piss easy examples to make it comprehensible for everyone.

>>8554572

It's particularly useful because it also shows that sometimes to get further away from the center, you have to go inward first and then "bounce back". When dealing with a particularly enigmatic problem, you can't just go at it. You have to generalize and discover things about it. Only then can you use your discoveries to aid in your invention of a solution. This is why mathematics is unique in the sense that It requires both creativity and brute force. A lot of times to solve a particularly challenging problem, you have to do a weird dance of generalization, invention, generalization, invention, etc until you understand enough to make the final push towards a solution.

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Math is a way of representing our universe just like the Periodic Table.We are merely creating symbols to help us categorize and understand the world around us. The symbols used to represent are created by humans, but the what is being represented still exists with or without our symbols.

Lead is just that, lead
not Pb
The same goes for the law of conservation of energy

It's just real world phenomena shown in a way humans can comprehend it

So it's a bit of a max. Math exists without us, but the actual symbols and laws for math are made by humans.

Not everything is black and white brainlets

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>>8553552
>>8553562
>>8553563
>>8553565

Invented, you can come up with any kind of maths you want but only the useful or interesting maths sticks around. For example I could have a mathematical system where there was only one object and one operation and apply the operation to the object does nothing at all. I just invented some maths, its completely trivial but I invented it right there.

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Mythmaticians don't want to admit that they are making shit up. They blindly follow authority, wasting their lives trying to prove to everyone else how smart they are. Only other autistic mythmaticians care. The world sees them as pic related

>>8555231
I'd take these kids seriously if their card game achieved half of what mathematics has

>>8554393
You're not baiting me that easily

>>8555221
sorry but i already invented that 2 months ago so you only just discovered it right now- ergo, all math is discovered.

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Was the concept of discovery discovered or invented?

I think the presence of irrational numbers implies that our system for characterizing the universe is non-ideal.

This implies it was invented, as there may well be a better system out there. I have no idea what form it would take though.

>>8555618
I think the entire bulk of the universe itself is the only thing that can characterize irrational numbers completely.

>>8555625
You only need a circle to charaterise pi. Its our way of recording it that is flawed.

>>8555627
>cannot find a perfect circle in physical form to prove existence of circles
explain this fact

>>8555627
Came here to post this: >>8555629

>>8555629
Thats fair enough but it still doesn't change the fact that our way of recording the information is non-ideal.

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>>8553648

I want to non-ironically thank you anon. I have the urge to post similar things whenever this topic comes up, and it's nice to not have to because similarly correct autists are willing to fight the battle for me. Subjectivists are the worst. I wish subjectivists would stop using all the neat technology built for them by virtue of everything they believe in being wrong.

>>8555627
Pi is derived from a 92-sided sided figure inscribed in a circle and is described by Archimedes as being somewhere between 3(1/7) and 3(10/71)

>>8553549
technically invented
actually discovered
there's a living, breathing thing out there which is what we call "math". we don't really mean "whatever comes out of these axioms", the axioms can be changed if needed. it's an abstract thing.

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I know I'm still a brainlet but I'll still argue that math is invented. Math is an abstract concept, just like human or programming languages.