Why are people lazy?

>>8512243

i think you know what people are going to say... both... in all likelihood... don't know any research on this but yeah...

i think more interesting is asking the question "what is laziness?". how do you classify or define this behaviour in the context of the brains function and the computations it performs? How do you distinguish it from other categories of behaviour we have that are similar or share similarities, both in expected and unexpected ways?

>>8512253
>brain computations

DUDE THE BRAIN ID AN ANALYTIC ENGINE LMAO

the closest thing you can say about the brain is that it's approximated by a tm in P with an oracle in NP, which represents the qualia of the soul, but even that is wrong because the brain doesn't simply perform computations

>>8512243
Laziness is just your little brainlet brains way of preventing it from overloading

>>8512243
laziness conserves energy, it's an evolutionary advantage

also, it forces us to think up ways of achieving the same goal by using the least amount of energy, providing a further evolutionary advantage

>>8512259
>lazy = brainlet

>hard worker = smart

you tried

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>>8512243
>are people lazy
[citation needed]

>>8512243
Nope, not genetic. I am kinda lazy, and my oldest sib is lazy. However, my other two sibs are the farthest thing from it.

>>8512243
lack of action gives greater benefit than acting in vein

>>8512258
>the brain doesn't simply perform computations
Prove it.

>>8512395
what computation are you performing when you dream, when you make love or when you write poetry? these involve the soul, not just mechanical +, -, *, /, etc

>>8512397
This is not true if you're dreaming about your tax returns, fucking someone close to your state's age of consent, or composing another sonnet for a Curta calculator.

>>8512421
you can dream about your tax returns without dreaming of performing the computations necessary to calculate anything related to your taxes

you can dream about the abstract concept of tax and its moral ramifications

>>8512243
As >>8512281 says, it's advantageous to expend the minimal amount of energy when you're not actively foraging or hunting or running for your life. Other organisms display similar behaviour too - birds (I think the study was on pidgeons or finches or something) after being fed will prefer to just sit around and not do anything until they become hungry again rather than going out and finding more food sources in the mean time. Likewise, most animals will spend as much time as they can afford not doing anything or expending as little energy as they can.

Lethargy is also a response to minor injuries, infections, emotional traumas (your friend getting eaten by a sabre tooth tiger) and perceived long-term negative environmental conditions (there are sabre tooth tigers everywhere) because it keeps you sat in one place while you recover or wait out whatever the problem is.

>>8512397
soul is just the factors, you are still computing interactions between them.

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>>8512243
Laziness is uniquely a function of economic status, and nothing more.

It is a proven fact that the less money a person has, the lazier he is.

>>8512258
>>8512397
>>8512424
>le soul

DUDE DUALITY LMAO

Please go back to >>>/x/. This is a science board not a philosophy board. And no serious philosopher agrees that souls exist. They don't. All of our subjective experiences are merely consequences of physical processes in our brains.

>>8512243
Genes. I had a shit upbringing and I'm not fat and have a daily routine of excercise, diet, and keeping up with things in general. Thank the universe for my genes. Although my parents are lazy pricks? Maybe I'm adopted

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laziness and low ambition or procrastination is a deadly combination. But ITT: talking pure laziness, nothing else

They say lazy people make the best computer programmers.
That's because laziness is about using logic to complete a task with the least effort possible, which is a key aspect of programing. That same lazy logic helps us find the most efficient way of doing things in real life also. For instance, when hunting for food, why spend all day hunting 1 fish at a time when you can build a fish trap out of rocks and spend all day doing nothing.

I think laziness is mainly a lack of urgency. I mean if someone offered you a million if you clean up your room wouldn't you do it? Lazy people lack this inner urgency. Someone who from a young age is told how important good grades in school are will dedicate a lot of his time to studying. Someone with lax parents and with no inner motivation will do the minimum work and play video games all day. Willpower is negligible here I think. The idea to be lazy doesn't even enter the mind of a hard working person.

>>8512471
pretty sure you have the relationship backwards
either that or you're retarded

>>8512243
You will need to define lazy first for us to have a meaningful talk.

>>8512515
There are some points here. But I don't think it is only about urgency. It sure can help but there are reasons other than feeling forced or "having" to do something.

A kid playing computer games is lazy. Same kid playing with legos? Playing with computer for learning? What if the games teach teamplay or strategy or language? I think we will need to define lazy to get a meaningful discussion.

>>8512306
Well that argument goes both was, because presumably you all had a similar upbringing

>>8512306
Maybe things are not as they seem.

>>8512544
Definition of lazy
lazierlaziest
1
a : disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous
b : encouraging inactivity or indolence <a lazy summer day>

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>>8512522
>pretty sure you have the relationship backwards

In a capitalist society, those who produce make more money. Thus, those with the most money have produced the most. Production implies work.

I have never met a hard-working black person. Many people wonder why such a disproportionate amount of black people are poor, but I think the answer is obvious. Black people are lazy, therefore they don't produce, therefore they are poor.

>>8512580
The smart people find out how to make money without having to work particularly much. That happens in all societies regardless of economic model.

>>8512580
You forgot a pretty crucial thing, that the more money you have, the easier it is to make money. There are plenty of people who hold down multiple minimum wage jobs and are only just able to keep afloat. Not everybody is lucky enough to be born to white middle class parents that can afford to send them to college and live life on easy mode

Also your argument basically goes
>I have never met a black person who isn't lazy
>Therefore all black people are lazy
Very poor logic desu

>>8512579
Well you can spend lots of time and energy on a computer game, but most peoples parents would still say they are lazy.

>>8512604
*would still say you are lazy if you do.

>>8512471
>It is a proven fact that the less money a person has, the lazier he is.
Kek

>>8512604
If there are more important things to do than playing video games and you choose to neglect those tasks and take the easy way and just play instead you are by definition lazy.

>>8512550
Video games are just as much of a time waste as playing with Legos.

I don't think we character people who engage in leisure activities as lazy unless they are deliberately putting off something they should be doing at that moment.

>>8512617
>What they should be doing.

The point here is who is to say what people "should be doing"? ( Except for their parents when they are kids. )

>>8512550
How about this: laziness is a lack of sense of duty and purpose.

Avoiding one productive activity to do another because you perceive it as more meaningful : not laziness.

Avoiding any productive activity : laziness.

>>8512622
Except when you're a child, what you should be doing is mostly determined by you. This often comes down to necessity.
"I need to buy food to survive... I need a money to buy food... I need to keep my job to make money... I should be doing this, this, and this for my boss so that I keep my job."

>>8512623
Ok great. I can agree to these definitions. I think many people have a sense of meaningfullness.

But what does productive mean?

>>8512623
I don't think being lazy and having a sense of purpose are mutually exclusive

>>8512656
If you have a sense of purpose why would you not follow it?

>>8512719
Because of laziness

>>8512725
What is laziness in this case? Lack of energy?

>>8512719
Maybe there are lots of have-tos which don't align with the purpose. Kids who need to be fed, bills that need to be payed.

>>8512728
I suppose so. Taking the path of least resistance, prioritising short term comfort over long term goals. The 'I'll do it tomorrow' attitude.

>>8512719
You need to "work" 8 hours a day, more in many places.

Then you need to fix other things typically a couple of more hours.

Then maybe you have 3-4 hours left of which you have very little to no energy to follow your passion or purpose.

>>8512738
>You need to "work" 8 hours a day, more in many places.

So the problem is if you find your sense of purpose too late to get a job that is aligned with that purpose? Or if your sense of purpose is not profitable?

>>8512742
>So the problem is if you find your sense of purpose too late to get a job that is aligned with that purpose? Or if your sense of purpose is not profitable?
This is the case for pretty much anybody. No sane person legitimately enjoys doing the bidding of their supervisor.

>>8512471
education level and moral character > $$

>>8512742
Work is very often filled with loads of practical distractions that need to be dealt with even if you manage to get to the right area or position.

>>8512751
Say for example i love some academic area. As a professor the time i spend will be divided on
1 hunting grants,
2 teaching,
3 supervising students,
4 administration,
5 planning teaching,
6 social events,
7 bashing my head against the publish wall,
8 research.

And then I probably missed a few important things at least. Many professors are so devoted they spend free time doing research. If they didn't, then not very much research would get done !

>>8512515
Maybe if my parents had helped me with my math homework in grade school, I would have been motivated to study it? I never saw the point. My parents made $$ and they knew little math.

>>8512754
I think it would have been better to have some earlier more personal experience with mathematics catching your curiosity.

>>8512397
>Sex
Brain chemistry Man
Ergo computational shit

working hard != accomplishing much in life

https://youtu.be/iKHTawgyKWQ?t=230

>>8512784
>TED talk

Wow this thread really went downhill.

Consciousness is literally a byproduct of laziness. Laziness is the primal, subconscious energy optimization mechanism of our body that prevents us doing too much pointless shit for the day, which leads to both exhaustion and food consumption (increased chance of death in both cases).

Therefor, laziness is a beneficial factor to our fitness since it dictates us to only do the most important and bank energy for the future, leading to it being promoted through evolution, Consciousness then evolved to amplify this process and assist in the conservation of energy by giving us logic, which allows us to evaluate and concentrate on the most important tasks for the day. Instead of being a retarded animal that hunts pointlessly for 90% of the time (due to the process being automated by our instincts), we evolved logic and prediction that allows us to map the potential locations of prey and multiply the effectiveness of our hunting (energy expenditure) exponentially. The process can be traced up to modern day, where the exponential growth still holds and we can literally print food by sitting on a chair and utilize the machines, all thanks to our consciousness.

Consciousness is basically laziness on another level.

cuz our computers trick pour mind into thinking we are productive aka surviving

>>8512243
Genes actually play into it
I don't know to what extent tho.

I think it is something called fuckaround-itis.

By that I mean you would rather do anything except something productive (watch tv, browse internet/social media instead of working) because it is the path of least resistance. You don't have to think to scroll through an instagram timeline or channels. Simple action gets you exposed to a lot of different time wasting activities.

I think it has something to do with upbringing. Being easily distractable (i suppose this is where ADD/ADHD come in, however on this note it is overcomable with/without medicine since most people just use it as an excuse) and not having the discipline to get back on track is what causes laziness.

Maybe your K-12 education was shit because you were allowed to be distracted without any warning signs to kick your ass in gear.

Then at the same time lots of people are content with doing minimal work so that they can be lazy. It ultimately boils down to taking pride in your work and everything that you do.

>organize your room
>do the dishes every night
>keep up with laundry
>workout/exercise regularly
>stay on top/ahead of schoolwork
>>if you are behind get back on track ASAP with no delay

All of this is easier said than done. My advice is think about the person you want to be. How can you improve yourself to be that person (stop browsing 4chan/social media, work out more, study more, work harder at your jobs, etc.) and think of your life as an ongoing process to become that person.

It is best to get a role model you know IRL that you can look up to. Mine was one of my TAs since he had his shit together and was knowledgable and could bench 350

Fuck it

>>8513618
>>organize your room
>>do the dishes every night
>>keep up with laundry
>>workout/exercise regularly
>>stay on top/ahead of schoolwork
>>>if you are behind get back on track ASAP with no delay
Sheeeit that sounds way too fucking hard. I think I'm just going to go masturbate. Fuck that, nigga.

>>8512243
Gotta save energy for when you gotta haul ass from a fucking lion or some shit

>>8513678
Okay

>>8512243
Whatever you do, don't take too much pride in what you do. It'll make it far too easy for people who are envious of you to undermine your self confidence.

It's not so much lazy but the result of doing something you do not want to do..
Laziness is hardly perceived by the person.

>>8512243
Because expending energy unnecessarily is detrimental to survival. Living life is like a combo between a greedy and lazy algorithm. You costume greedily and act lazily. It's the best way to survive in the wild, and it still has its merits today.

You can be interested in learning, but if you know with high certainty that you can survive by living on welfare, having more kids, taking out bank loans and defaulting on them, buying everything on credit, and more, and all of this is allowed in our society, from an objective standpoint why would you ever bother to better yourself as a person? It's better to be lazy than move forward because there isn't any serious environmental pressure to do anything difficult or intelectually rewarding.

It'd be like asking why don't lions in the zoo try to break out of their cages and eat the other animals when you feed it a big ass steak every 3 hours.

Laziness is smarter than action when the situation doesn't call for action.

>>8512243
>thick and fuzzy arm hair

hmm...

>>8512791
Huh. It's pretty interesting to think of things that way.

Do you think machine consciousness then could be forced algorithmically by giving machines something to "hunt for" or have a desire to consume and then making them find a way to get that resource while rewarding them for being lazy in doing so? And then giving them random data from around the world in their lazy periods to take in and evaluate?

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>>8512243

The problem is that the question itself is simplistic and vague and brings up too many moral and esthetic concepts.

Merely defining laziness is challenging. Are we talking about postponing things ? Delegating them to someone else? Doing them in a simpler fashion ? Not doing physical exercise? Not doing a mental task? Is procrastination the issue? Laziness can encompass all of these.

As others have said doing something through a simpler more energy efficient way can be an advantage and at the same time seen as laziness. A simple example would be some guy deciding that chasing after aurochs was too much trouble and breeding them in pens would be teh shit. Hunters at the time might have thought of him as lazy but see where it has gotten us. Taking that analogy someone right now might decide going to the supermarket is too tiring and order things online : some might see that as laziness while others will see it as something smart.

As for the moral part taking the above example of ordering things online, we might do it for different reasons. Some might want to work from home and every minute spent outside will be time they can't use working. Others might do the same because they would rather use that same time to visit family or take a walk in the park. Others still might do it because they're anxious in public. So this same action might can be seen in very different ways depending on its motivation, real or perceived by observers.

We also have the esthetic angle. Doing something in simpler terms can be even harder than doing it in a more complex fashion. Take writing a report, trying to cut down the number of words and eliminate redundancies takes time and demands thought. The reverse, using a more complex language or writing style can be hard too. Both can be seen as a form of laziness depending on who is judging the end result.

Then there is the issue of diseases. We could talk for a long time about this...

>>8514757

Several diseases can cause a decrease in physical or mental activity.

On the physical side it's easier to understand, an amputee won't move very fast (blade runner not included) and someone with shortness of breath (COPD for instance) will tire easily.

On the mental side, traumatic brain injury, stroke, parkinson's and even depression (among others) can decrease what's often called our executive functions. These encompass among other things our "drive to do things".

These physical or mental handicaps can be seen as laziness if the disease in question isn't taken into consideration.

So, as I was saying, the question needs to be more precise otherwise we'll just end up loosing too much time discussion a multitude of issues.

>>8514735
Yes, and that's the only way you can create an AI. Two requirements:

>1) Goal
>2) Optimization mechanism towards the achievement of the goal

But what exactly is the goal?

The answer to that question is rather simple and can be reached by simply asking yourself "Why did life evolve in the first place?". Consciousness is merely a mechanism to aid in life's goal, and once you realize what life's goal is, you'll realize what consciousness is, and what it would take for a system to evolve it.

Well, /sci/, what is life's ultimate goal?

>>8514830
To make people I dislike suffer.

>>8514836
Hey remember how much fun you had back in those days? :)

>>8514843
Hang yourself already.

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>>8514836
>>8514844

>>8514843
Would still rather die.

>>8514836
You mean to sate emotions that are the equivalent of a toddler throwing a temper tantrum and which you have never really questioned before.

we evolved to perform certain tasks and now in the modern world we must perform tasks that would be very odd for a hunter gatherer, we possess no natural drive to do them