Is ADHD even real? Or is it just a scam to get parents to pay

>>8457318

>Is ADHD even real?

Pretty clearly not given how rapidly the diagnosis count went up in such a short amount of time. It was a meme, just like autism, transgender dysphoria, and most everything else psychiatry is involved with.

Most of them end up having depression later in life. Basically human waste and should be euthanized as soon as the symptoms manifest

>>8457318
Real but highly overmedicated and over diagnosed. There are a select number of children who simply cannot focus on a single task for a minute, not out of stupidity but because their brain picks up on a lot more stimuli and hyperalert.

>>8457318
at best it is 'real' but wildly over-diagnosed
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/health/the-selling-of-attention-deficit-disorder.html?pagewanted=all

>>8457318
Yes https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19393378\>>8457324
Nah, a lot tend to make for good researchers and physicians as they dont myopically focus on one proposed solution. Autism though. When the gene is localized thats responsible for autism, every pregnant mother should forcibly go through amniocentesis and abort the fetus if the gene is present. Not even being hyperbolic.

>>8457324
>Most of them end up having depression later in life. Basically human waste and should be euthanized as soon as the symptoms manifest
They only get "depression" (depression doesn't exist either, but that's an entirely different matter) because the meds they're fed to treat they're condition induce "depression." If anyone should be euthanized, it's psychiatrists.

What qualifies as Mental "illness" is always dictated by Politics, never by Medicine.

>>8457430

This, any real "brain condition" is treated by neurologists.

>>8457434
Would schizophrenia not be considered a brain condition?

>>8457420
>to treat they are condition

>>8457440

If it were real a neurologist would treat it, not a psychiatrist. Schizophrenia is diagnosed by opinion, not by medical diagnostic tools of any sort.

>>8457440
According to Deleuze and Guattari, schizophrenia is a side effect of capitalism.

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>>8457448
So youre contention is schizophrenia does not exists and that their simply cannot be chemical misfirings in the brain and thats is all due to lesions, or structural abnormalities. And thats is merely a coincidence that anti-dopaminergic drugs reduce the symptoms of schizophrenia when schizophrenia is caused by an excess of dopamine.
Got it.

>>8457458
*your
FUCK

>>8457458

>anti-dopaminergic drugs reduce the symptoms of schizophrenia

Learn your history, neuroleptics (Greek meaning "taking hold of the nerves") were developed to keep asylum patients quiet and docile. By your definition straight jackets also "reduce the symptoms."

>>8457322
There are studies, which show correlation between ADHD and lack of sleep. Many kids now use smartphones or tablets before going to bed. The bluish light leads to worse sleep and to ADHD.

>>8457466
anon neuroleptics do a lot more than merely make the floridly psychotic quiet and docile. they quite literally bring them back to reality in the window of 48 hours. go volunteer at a mental hospital some time.

>>8457443
oops

there*

>>8457466
have you even met a schizophrenic?

and what you talking about, it wasnt created as a straight jacket but as therapy. thats such an overbiased statement.

and who uses word etymology to back up an argument?

>>8457318
>is x mental disorder that's backed up by decades of research but also recently become popular real?

>>8457318
I believe that the condition itself is real although very rare.

I would think that there are many misdiagnosis given how doctors nowadays can't seem to differentiate between a child that was not beaten and a child with Asperger syndrome.

>>8457579

>child that was not beaten?

helloo?

>>8457318
yeah its a scam, some people are more focused than others. has nothing to do with imparities. and the constant hyperness is a form of ocd that isnt recognized well.

>>8457322
autism is real though, some people literally dont understand what it means when you wave at them or go out for a hug.

>>8457324
i have the "adhd" meme and i agree people with mental problems shouldnt be a part of society, it slows everything down.

>>8457318

It's way too overused. Lack of parenting.

>>8457318
it's a scam, dude

i had "adhd" but really i was just a fast learner and got bored when they tried to rehash the same old things. i just had to start teaching myself.

i wasted so much time on the drug too, it's worthless

>>8457645

>some people literally dont understand what it means when you wave at them or go out for a hug

There's no reason to consider that a disease.

>>8457448
> people on /sci/ actually believe this

>>8457654

>people on /sci/ actually believe schizophrenia is diagnosed with brain scans

Time for babby's first red pill.

>>8457653
>/sci/ brainlets can't accept that they have autism

>>8457662

There's nothing wrong with having a term like "autist" and calling people like that by that term. The problem is pretending like it's a disease.

Getting an ADHD diagnosis and meds completely changed my life. Now I no longer hate myself and in the last three years my life has made a complete U-turn from failure to success and finally getting to do what I love.

If you think you have ADHD don't let a bunch of edgelords on /sci/ dissuade you.

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>>8457649

>I was misdiagnosed so ADHD isn't real

I find it hard to believe that you're not brain damaged when you're put up such retarded arguments

>>8457510

>they quite literally bring them back to reality in the window of 48 hours

You can't ever substantiate that claim. You can only tell it tranquilizes them (and in fact that's another term that used to be more common for anti-psychotics: major tranquilizers). People drugged into docility aren't going to report as many crazy sounding ideas, not exactly a great breakthrough in modern medicine. Same thing was accomplished with insulin shock therapy and lobotomies once upon a time.

PS: Abilify (an antipsychotic) has more than once been the number one best selling of any pharmaceutical drugs, psychiatric or otherwise.

PPS: Outcome for schizophrenia patients is routinely *better* in developing countries without access to antipsychotic drugs

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2007.07071137

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I didn't know /sci/ stood for /sci/entology

You cant possibly be well-versed in the science and deny that ADHD is real.

But tell me more about your personal experience and your feels.

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>>8457735

>You cant possibly be well-versed in the science and deny that sluggishly progressing schizophrenia is real.

Cool non-argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluggish_schizophrenia

>>8457746

>Psychiatry was abused by a totalitarian regime
>This means you should not trust peer reviewed international psychiatry

Maybe if you took your meds you'd stop thinking so much about jewish conspiracies

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>>8457768
>OY VEY!!!!! YOU GOYIM ARE THINKING TOO HARD!!!

>DON'T FORGET TO YOU TAKE YOUR PILLS, GOYIM!!!!!!!!!

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>>8457746

>Sluggish schizophrenia was a diagnostic category used in Soviet Russia to describe a what they claimed was a form of schizophrenia

>It was developed in the 1960s by Soviet psychiatrist Andrei Snezhnevsky and his colleagues

>The diagnosis has long been discredited because of its scientific inadequacy and its use as a means of confining dissenters

>It has never been used or recognized outside of Soviet Russia

Hmmm... a categorization of schizophrenia that was never supported by the scientific community. This really made me think.

You can't link me to anything relevant to the discussion because you're not well-versed in the science. Please link me to an article on the blaze next. Or please, another wikipedia article about soviet transgressions.

>>8457768

Yeah, that's what we need, even more people consuming antipsychotics.

https://www.rt.com/usa/204563-abilify-top-grossing-medication/

>>8457783

What if I told you the reason psychiatry was able to be abused for suppressing dissidents in the first place is because diagnoses are made on the basis of opinion and not physical diagnostic tools like MRIs?

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>>8457788

>rt

Tell us anon, what sort of psychiatric background do you have to back up your claims?

>>8457805

>you have to be a child molester to argue that child molestation is bad

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>>8457807

>My uneducated opinion based on drivel I read on rt is as valid as those of real scientists

>>8457702
>You can't ever substantiate that claim.
zyprexa is the reason I stopped believing the cia was chasing me and that my mother was poisoning my coffee. it also turned me from a complete wreck that didn't know what the best approach was to taking a shower to a degree of functionality in day to day life.

t. schizophrenic

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>>8457811

>I don't believe abilify was a best selling pharmaceutical because the fact was reported on by rt

You know you can look it up in other sources too, right?

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>>8457800

You won't address ADHD because all of the evidence supports its existence. Plenty of studies have been done on ADHD using MRIs.

Are you a scientologist?

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>>8457817

>zyprexa is the reason I stopped believing the cia was chasing me

So what's the next step in your self-chemical-lobotomizing plan?

>>8457827

Why is it so hard for you to accept that peoples lives improve when taking a drug?
It's a really unhealthy obsession you have

>>8457826

You know who disagreed with you? The guy who invented ADHD.

>SPIEGEL: In the 1960s, mental disorders were virtually unknown among children. Today, official sources claim that one child in eight in the United States is mentally ill.

>Kagan: That's true, but it is primarily due to fuzzy diagnostic practices. Let's go back 50 years. We have a 7-year-old child who is bored in school and disrupts classes. Back then, he was called lazy. Today, he is said to suffer from ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder). That's why the numbers have soared.

>SPIEGEL: Experts speak of 5.4 million American children who display the symptoms typical of ADHD. Are you saying that this mental disorder is just an invention?

>Kagan: That's correct; it is an invention. Every child who's not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: "It's ADHD; here's Ritalin." In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don't have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they'll make the corresponding diagnosis.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/child-psychologist-jerome-kagan-on-overprescibing-drugs-to-children-a-847500.html

>>8457827
wait until crispr can make the schizophrenia genes go away
"forget" to take my dose as much as I can while still saying sane

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>>8457826

I think he's a russian actually, or possibly even worse

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>>8457843

He didn't invent ADHD

He asserts that the ADHD diagnosis is an invention (implying it doesn't exist).

You haven't even read your own source. It shows that you're sitting their googling to try to come up with something because you're not well versed in the science.

The fact that you think one man's opinion in the popular press is enough to refute the consensus of the scientific community shows that you don't understand how science works.

Are you a scientologist?

>>8457826
>>8457843

>One out of every ten 10-year-old boys already takes an ADHD drug daily. But the scientific father of ADHD has followed the explosion of prescriptions with growing horror. Leon Eisenberg took over the management of psychiatry at the prestigious Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and became one of the most famous psychiatrists in the world. In his last interview, seven months before his death from prostate cancer at the age of 87, he distanced himself from his youthful indiscretion.

>A tall, thin man with glasses and suspenders opened the door to his apartment in Harvard Square in 2009, invited me to the kitchen table, and poured coffee. He said that he never would have thought his discovery would someday become so popular. "ADHD is a prime example of a fabricated disorder," Eisenberg said. "The genetic predisposition to ADHD is completely overrated."

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-83865282.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

>>8457865

See:

>>8457868

It was a two parter. Also, no I'm not a scientologist. Scientologists are about as bad as psychiatrists, both profit off the abuse of troubled people.

>>8457870

The fact that you think one man's opinion in the popular press is enough to refute the consensus of the scientific community shows that you don't understand how science works.

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>>8457870

Good thing all these troubled people have you instead to give such helpful advice such as "dude just snap out if it" and "it's all in your head bro". I don't think there's any way I will make you understand just how important my meds are for me, but honestly I'd rather lose my left leg than going back to life before meds. I'm sure you will just dismiss me as some drug added sheeple or whatever, after all it doesn't fit into your narrative that psychiatry isn't all a hoax.

The sad thing is that shit people like you keep people who need help away from it. Fuck you

>>8457886

>the consensus of the scientific community

lol, those pharmaceutical company funded studies are very convincing and totally not crafted with any sort of profit based agenda in mind. That's why the actual diagnoses are always made with actual brain scans and never through opinion, no chance of abuse there, oh wait

>>8457894

"Dude just snap out of it" literally does work better. Outcome for schizophrenia patients is routinely better in developing countries without access to antipsychotic drugs

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2007.07071137

>>8457590
I mean a kid that was never physically disciplined.

ADHD isn't real. Just like muh depression.

>>8457664
Then what the fuck is?

>>8457909

this article says nothing of the sort. what the fuck is wrong with you cum guzzler

>>8457894
>it's all in your head bro

But it literally IS all in your head... what the fuck are you spouting? Do you have a MENTAL illness or not?

>>8457817

I mean...it's entirely possible that the CIA was chasing you and that your mother was poisoning your coffee, but I think the general improvement in state of mind that some people experience after telling a benevolent figure of authority about their Mental ailment is due to things like trust and positive attention.

>>8459362
you might be trolling but i honestly think depression is bullshit, I was depressed for like two years in high school and then college, didn't want to get out of bed or do anything just wanted to lie down and feel like shit and do nothing, then i fixed my diet and started exercising, and actually started working on the shit I had to do and since then I've been completely content with my life.
I think that this was a function of just having something to do, and less so of actually eating and exercising and shit. When you have shit to do, when you're working almost all the time on either your studies or your hobbies, you basically don't have room in your mind for feeling shitty.
I think the massive uptick in "depression" over the last century is at least partly to do with the fact that high school and college has turned from being something that you have to dedicate your mind and time to (if you want to get a good job and work to survive) into a four-year adult daycare that everyone takes part in. Life was better when the people who were less mentally capable just did manual labour from when they left school instead of studying some bullshit liberal arts degree and learning fuck all and feeling shitty because they never ever get aything worthwhile done.

>>8457322
Gender dysphoria isn't a meme anon. It's real

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You are right. ADHD or ADD is not real. And so is not PTSD, anxiety, dissociative disorders, sleep disorders, somatic disorders, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorders, phobias, philias, depression, schizophrenia, psychopathy, paranoia, bipolar dis., histrionic dis, schizoid and schizotypal dis., narcissism, addictions, delusions, hallucinations, autism, anorexia, bulimia, mania, sexual deviations, learning problems, aggressive behavioral problems and many others.

They are all made up by big pharma. Dont let this pseudo science like psychiatry, psychology tell you otherwise. Its all in your head. Freud would tell you to fuck your mother lel

>>8459615

Nobody is implying they're made up. People are proposing a non-binary model of modes of thinking that would entail that any debilitating aspect of the vast majority of said modes is only due to Society obsessively isolating and demonizing the people exhibiting them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundaries_of_the_mind

>>8459600
yes i feel like life is more stressful and thats why people feel more depressed. that article this guy posted >>8457909 which doesnt prove his point at all looks at cultural reasons that might have mediated why the schizophrenia was worse in the west; was interesting.

>>8459600

you were probably only mildly depressed, for other people its alot worse.

>>8459649

i highly doubt thats true.

how comes you can get depression and anxiety in animals then. its not like they are oppressed by society for it.

>>8457909

>Outcome for schizophrenia patients is routinely better in developing countries without access to antipsychotic drugs
>http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2007.07071137

>>8459428

>this article says nothing of the sort.

?

>Outcome from schizophrenia is routinely better in developing world settings, and this difference becomes apparent during the initial 2 years of illness. But even for developing world patients with a poor early course, outcome is superior to that of developed world patients with an equivalent early course.

>>8457318
ADHD may or may not be overdiagnosed, but it's very real. Actual scientists have identified the root cause as physiological differences in the brain. It's been observed in other mammals as well.

>>8459853

>physiological differences in the brain

Just because people have physiological differences in their brain doesn't mean they have a disease. You would probably have a harder time finding people without at least some of those sorts of differences if you were to compare normal population brains at random than you would with those sorts of differences.

>>8459649
There are too many varieties of even depression to have one single explanation. That is the problem. People are too complex and must be treated individually. What you propose would describe and make sense to some but wouldnt to others. Vast majority is not possible to reduce to such a degree to not become harmful in practice. Most of these problems have too many uncommon and rare sometimes one time only variables that apply to individual experience+genetic make up. These various problems will then manifest themselves differently because people are different. The root cause is also hard to find and most often impossible. That is why there are so many models and theories. You get the most common types and explanations but they cant be applied in practices often as we are talking about anomalies of anomalies of human psyche a complex of their entire life.

>>8457646
What you call mental illness is a refusal to accept individual worldview differs from the collective.

>>8459864
>Just because people have physiological differences in their brain doesn't mean they have a disease.
People with this particular physiological difference have a very difficult row to hoe in formal academic settings because nearly everything about that environment causes them psychological distress and anxiety.

Think about something that drives you absolutely insane. Now think about having to do that thing every day for 12-20 years of your life without complaint, or risk being labeled as being antisocial, stupid, or untrainable.

For people with actual ADHD, the meds are a godsend.

>>8459980

>Think about something that drives you absolutely insane. Now think about having to do that thing every day for 12-20 years of your life without complaint, or risk being labeled as being antisocial, stupid, or untrainable.

School is hell for everyone, not just people labeled as "ADHD." I would easily rather just be dead than have to ever go through school again and I've never had a mental illness diagnosis.

>>8459980
I have ADHD, I'm in academic setting but I don't meds cuz me smart boy. I'm using some coping techniques, although it's stills shit, I keep improving.
>inb4 fuck off this isn't your personal blog

>>8459988
Think about how school affects you and multiply it by 20. Your personal circumstances are not universal.

>>8460012

>multiply it by 20

You can't ever substantiate that claim.

>>8457519
their
can we move the topic to your dyslexia

>>8460013
>You can't ever substantiate that claim.
I don't have to. There are plenty of good case studies out there, if you're the least bit curious. If you just want to be a salty sperg your whole life, then soldier on.

>>8460030

>There are plenty of good case studies out there

None of which can ever prove the claim people with ADHD have a much worse time in school than people without it. It's dishonest to pretend you can know that.

>>8460030
Still overexaggerated

>>8460036
People with ADHD have poorer self control due to a smaller prefrontal cortex

>>8460041

That doesn't mean they have a worse time in school than other people. It means they have poorer self-control. Psychopaths have poorer self-control too and they report fewer negative emotional responses than non-psychopaths. Lack of self-control is arguably an indicator of less capacity for suffering, not more. Negative emotions are what reinforce self-control.

>>8460053
>That doesn't mean they have a worse time in school than other people. It means they have poorer self-control.
It most certainly does not, you psychopath.

>>8460053
How is poorer self-control not impairing in an academic setting?

I don't know if it's a meme or not

but I had 2 people with ADHD in my class
the one guy was "normal", just had problem focusing during class

the other guy was kinda different
he was calm during class
he had to take pills every day as far as I know
once on a school trip he forgot to take his pills and at some point he took his clothes off and ran around naked, screaming at people for no reason

it wasn't as bad as it sounds

>>8460060

It'll lessen their academic performance. That's not the same as them having a worse time in school. You can have bad grades and feel fine in school just like you can have good grades and feel terrible in school.

>>8460073
>That's not the same as them having a worse time in school
Maybe read one piece of literature on ADHD before commenting?

>>8460091

Not an argument. All you've established so far is that people with ADHD probably feel less bad than most other people while in school.

>>8459808

where does this article mention drugs.

>>8460093
We've established that you are a know-nothing troll and probably a zero-empathy psychopath.

>>8460102

The fact developing countries don't have access to antipsychotic drugs doesn't need to be inside the article for it to be a fact. I thought that was a pretty uncontroversially accepted fact to reference, but here's a citation for it too:

http://www.europsy-journal.com/article/S0924-9338(08)00092-8/abstract

>In developing countries mental disorders are emerging as a major contributor to the Global Burden of Diseases, but mental health cares are accessible to only a minority. Psychiatric diseases do not benefit from recent dramatic progress in terms of access to medicines seen in other fields.

>>8460115

Not an argument. If you really think it's relevant to the topic though, you're probably a lot further along on the psychopathy end of the spectrum than I am since I've consistently just stuck to addressing points relevant to the argument while you've repeatedly posted non-argument insults.

>>8460122
Just read some of the published literature.

>>8460150
nod an argument :^DD

>>8460174
Okay, you win.

>>8457337
implying that there will be a single loci for autism. Its probably going to be similar to schizophrenia. Where an most of the genome is responsible.

>>8460198

he does, you got fucking rekt son

>>8460118

thats pretty bad practise of trying to make inferences. the things they cited as related to the difference were not related to drugs.

even with this article you are drawing spurious connections with something youve thought up and something not necessarily related youve seen because it seems logical to you. it might seem logical to you but its bad practise, bad inference and youre not even looking at any data whether correlative or causal.

>>8460428

The facts are simple enough here. Psych patients in developing countries without access to antipsychotics tend to do better than psych patients in developed countries. You don't even have to assume there's a causal relationship between lack of drugs and better outcome to see how this casts doubt on the alleged utility of antipsychotics. Even just no difference between developing and developed country patients would cast doubt on it, but what we're seeing goes further than that to the point where developed nation patients are somehow doing even worse.

>>8460453

the paper gives other reasons though for why. and if people presumably didnt have antipsychotic drugs then that doesnt devalidate the drug. youll have to manipulate drug taking to find a conclusion. will there be a difference if people in england take less of the drug? the difference in recovery might be to do with the those cultural factors mentioned. antipsychotics arent perfect but they have a well known effect and for people with sever schizophrenia you cant just tell them to snap out of it.

>>8457318
ADHD is real. ADHD is a very patternistic set of symptoms that effect sufferers for their entire lifetime. We know that ADHD exists because these symptoms are highly heritable, which means that if one or both of your parents have it then you are more likely to have it as well. There is also heaps of other evidence from genetic evidence to brain imaging, which strongly supports the existence of ADHD. It is also a diagnosis that has existed for about 60 years. It isn't about to disappear now.

A key issue here is that doctor's are not qualified to give a diagnosis of ADHD, and most people who say they have it have not been diagnosed or taken any kind of test for it.

>>8457827
you do realize a lobotomy literally liquifies part of your brain right? Taking drugs won't make him a literal zombie and he can stop taking the drugs and then go back to normal. There is no comparison.

i dont care if its real or not, methylphenidate makes studying more efficient for me

>>8457783
>BUT YOU ARE JUST BEING A GOY TO THE JEWS SINCE THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL BOTH IN WESTERN CAPITALISM AND SOVIET RUSSIA
>ALSO SOCIALISM WILL WORK IF ITS NATIONAL NOT INTERNATIONAL