Is self-education better than going to college?

>>8429800
It is better to work and gain experience rather than waste your time listening to the theoretical version of it.

a degree gets your foot in the door

if you have the means to get your foot in the door without a degree then self-education would be better

>>8429800
>college

You mean slave-entry tuition farms?

>>8429809
Indeed. These days a bachelor's is the cut off middle class passport into livable wage jobs. However, the competence of the person will depend greatly on their own abilities, at which point it won't matter if it was standard or autodidact education.

Think of it this way:
autodidact = self-paced, goodunderstanding of the subject at hand. Not always build a good overview or structure.
Standard = Keep up or pay. Builds partial knowledge of subject covered, but get a good overview and structure of the material.

>>8429800
Honestly, it depends on the people. I've always tended to go the autodidactic path, but without guidance all my talent would have evaporated. It's hard enough to focus on one subject as it is. Just very few people can go all the way by themselves.

>>8429800
Colleges are for suckers who have no connections thus need a piece of paper to get good jobs.

>>8429800
only for those who are driven and/or intelligent enough.

I know for a fact that I would be eating wonderglue If I had to rely on self-education

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>>8429800
>literally strapped a bicycle dynamo to a fan
>Scientist of the African Year
top fucking lel

>>8429838
Only suckers get jobs. You need to own the business and have people working for you

>>8430097
Why would you post a photo of yourself on an anonymous board?

>>8429800
Is your end goal to get a job? I am willing to bet 99.9999% of scientists and engineers and any humanities careers require a degree or at least a certificate. Self education can be dangerous too. Too many stupid asses who will believe anything they read online or see on youtube. Better to at least have curriculum created that has actual verrified facts than have to weed through the bullshit online for years.

>>8429800
In Africa it sure is.

>>8430097

>mad a black man did more than you've ever done
>being a pol tard

NICE!

>>8429800
I tried to be autodidactic but it is very difficult without motivation

Having tests quizzes and grades have gone a long way into making me put effort into learning

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>>8430195

>>8430957
Actually, "the old way" is also 16.

>>8429800
I'm about to finish my bachelor's degree.
In my opinion it took about four years too long.
I would guess that about 90% of my "learning" occurred while working on problems on my own. About 9% took place in office hours, and 1% took place in class.

If I had my way, there would only be three or four lectures per semester, and the rest of the time would be spent working on problems and projects. Professors would have extended office hours instead of multiple weekly lectures.

I think it's true that everyone learns differently. One person needs to see a particular idea restated in a few different ways, while other things are intuitive. For someone else, it could be the opposite. So it seems better to let people find their own questions, and address issues as they arise, rather than building the curriculum around an arduous one-size-fits-all lecture series.

To answer your question, it's often occurred to me that I could have just worked the entire undergrad curriculum on my own, if the school had just given me all the course materials up front. But then I remember my favorite professors, and how they did help me get past certain misconceptions when I was feeling stuck. So I say: only have the class meet a couple times as a group, and let students come to extended office hours with their questions for the bulk of the semester. In the end, I feel like most of my time in college was inefficiently spent, but there were definitely times when I was grateful to have direct access to my professors.

>>8430195

>Self education can be dangerous too. Too many stupid asses who will believe anything they read online or see on youtube.

I am pretty sure most of us, when we talk about self education, we're talking about books and not just random stuff from the internet.

>>8430957
I guess this means teachers don't even know what they're teaching?

The only way this makes sense is if they think that "PEMDAS" means that multiplication is always done before division. (multiplication and division are done left to right)

>>8430957
so they designed it to confuse all the white kids intentionally?

>>8429800
DUUUUUDE

Best is both. Go to college (don't take on debt if you don't have a strategy; i.e. don't go into debt to figure out what you want to do). But go and then self study. Use what you learn in college towards what you self study. You, generally, won't learn as well self-studying as you would if you are put out of you comfort zone in college and tested on it. UNLESS, perhaps, if you are actively and purposefully using what you're learning. Indeed, use what you can of what you learn and forget the rest for a later time. This is the secret to happiness, this is the secret to Pornhub... errr sucess

>>8429800
what, do you mean in terms of employment? for the vast majority of people, probably not

in terms of just learning about things you're interested in, assuming you're driven enough, yes because you can find a lot of books, articles, lectures, and other resources online for free

the thing is it's difficult for most people to "prove" that they're educated without a degree or connections, that's pretty much the entire point of college now

>>8429800
need degree to get job.

after that its self education to get good at your job.


so you need both

>>8429800
I don't think there is a single person on this planet who is tough enough on himself to pull this off.

Going to college isn't just having lectures, it's also professors and peers breathing down your neck, pressuring you into performing well. When you learn alone, you tend to cut corners, thinking you understand everything, skipping the harder problems, and then going to the next chapter.

>>8430961
The problem is the notation on this is fucking shit, not that each answer is equally correct.

It's either 20/(5*(2*2))
Or
(20/5)*(2*2)

This is why math education sucks, desu - because they spend half a year intentionally trying to confuse kids with bad notation to test whether or not they can remember what pemdas means

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>>8429800
>Dartmouth

>>8429800
If you don't want to get a job doing what you're studying, yes

When I was in 2nd grade I was placed in "gifted classes". They weren't called AP until middle school, and by then I was in foster care with failing grades and an emotional crisis. I was continuously told by my foster parents I was stupid, even when scoring in the 99th percentile on my exams without doing any schoolwork.

By high school I was expelled for possession of a concealed weapon (just a pocket knife) and lost numerous full-ride scholarship opportunities.

I dropped out of alternative school, and spent my time at the library on the internet, or reading if computers were taken. I did this 15-20, working day labor as an early adult. I almost died of heat stroke so I decided to go to community college. I studied Computer Engineering with an additional year in computer electives. I work as an electronic technician now for about 30k.

I intend to go back and get an electrical engineering bachelors, and try to take some more development classes. I think then I'll be 50k+

>>8431498
but also while I was in college I continued with self-education. I taught myself to program and design circuits. thing is - these days im working too much to really do much learning.

>>8431026
I've experienced both - self education and college. Those 9% and 1% you mentioned might seem a little, but they're more important than one might think. Just someone pushing you in the right direction as to avoid pitfalls and learn the right things is a game changer. It takes several times more time to learn the same things without a proper feedback loop.

Plato was against a "modern" invention of his times which was called "books". Sounds silly, but he made some really good points against written knowledge. There's a reason why we have teachers in classroom and don't just learn from books.
More:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaedrus_(dialogue)#Discussion_of_rhetoric_and_writing_.28257c.E2.80.93279c.29

>>8429800

No but it's better than nothing.

>>8431481
That's not the only thing which is wrong with the notation in math. It's full of stupid things like this that accumulated during its development. Like how we use differentials with tongue-in-cheek or the tau>pi thing.

>>8429800
https://youtube.com/watch?v=So9LshyaHd0

As somebody that has done both (taught myself the material before I went on to study it), I'd say college is better by far. With self learning, your focus tends to be very narrow on the parts that you find interesting. College gives you a much broader understanding which is useful for fitting everything into perpective. Also with the lack of proper feedback and assessment, self learning can be a problem. Not to mention that college give you access to all the latest papers which you would have to pay for otherwise, and puts you in an environment with other students with an interest in the subject. Group learning with others shouldn't be underestimated.

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>>8430260
>accuses of being pol
Cool post bro.

>>8431648
>differentials with tongue-in-cheek
What? Nothing is wrong with differentials except the thing that dummies don't know differential forms.

> the tau>pi thing
Who cares which constant do you use. That's as minor as it can be.

>>8429800
Well if you self educate then you can take your time to master everything, and not just pass the course with a shitty grade, and you can also study things in proper order, e.g. linear algebra, calculus and differential equations before mechanics.

>>8429800
For a very, VERY small percentage of people maybe.

For everyone else, a university is preferable.

The structure, the peer-environment, and, afterwards, the credentials (not to mention access to lab equipment you likely couldn't afford on your own) - there are so many upsides.

>>8432001
forgot to link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MTRxRO5SRA

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>>8431648
>>8431882
Oh god I hate it when one of my profs multiplies with dx and says something to the effect of "lol hope there are no mathematicians watching", without ever telling us why and when he can use that trick. REEEEEEEE

By the way I think he meant that the problem is the people who promote the whole tau thing, as if it actually mattered. It's something for those "I'm a le nerd xd" types. You need only superficial knowledge of math to have your shitty opinion regarding something as basic as pi. Same goes for all the base 12 dumbasses, just fucking kill yourselves already.

>>8429800
Can you detect your mistakes by yourself, and fix them without help? We all make mistakes and fail to grasp concepts at some time. Who will assist you then?

The world is full of "self-taught masters" that are nothing but shit-full bags, and it's easily seen in physical disciplines: instrument playing, martial arts... Dudes have a totally distorted view of self where they believe what they're doing is great when it's actually awful.

How will you prevent that from happening to you, OP? What's your quality assurance in the self-learning process? That's the answer to your question.

>>8430957
>people still fall for old bait shops

>>8431498
>>8431501
Ganbatte Anon!

>>8429800
Do they even have schools in Africa?

>>8432307
No. The village elders consult the great Sky bird, and then teach the others.

>>8432003
Great response. The first thing I thought of at this question was "How is Uni not self education?" The only difference between Uni and self education is structure:

- mentorship in the form of lectures and ability to Q&A experienced lecturers
- measurement of ability in the form of GPA

At the end of the day you still have to put in the time, read the texts do problems. Bottom line is education is related to effort put into it, not the output (GPA, degree, etc.)

The real question to be asked right now, is the output of University worth the cost. Frankly tuitions are very inflated due to millennials who have rich parents wiling to send junior to Uni for Art History and Women's Studies majors. This drives up the cost for useful degrees. And yes there at useful non-STEM degrees. Art History and Women's Studies are not two of them.

>>8432097
Three words: "History of Math".
I had this in college. Very enlightening. We could listen there how exactly The Big Names came up with their theorems, what was the state of the knowledge at the time, their restrictions of various nature, what was actually the chronological order in which things got discovered etc.
Not mandatory, no grades and there was no attendance. The hall was always full and rarely anyone skipped.

>>8430097
>had to work with scraps of knowledge and scraps of materials
>managed to uplift his village

The guy is notable enough and has plenty of potential. Most of his peers would just grovel in the dust

>>8432900
>Most of his peers would just grovel in the dust.
idk dude, you might be underestimating Africa. They have plenty of skilled craftsmen making wonders out of scraps. The real problem there is the lack of resources. Most notably wood.

>>8429800
Not at all.

I've self taught myself many things, but it doesn't even compare to being rigorously tested by a professional in your field.

Back when I taught myself linear algebra, I would skip certain problems that didn't click. "If it isn't that hard then it is probably too specific to serve me" and I would not feel guilty or anything. I'd just keep reading and feel good.

Then when I was in university there was this one theorem in geometry that I was given as part of a practice and because it was too hard I decided not to do it, because if it was that hard then the professor would not test us on it.

Then when the next test came, surprise sur-fucking-prise. That problem staring back at my soul, right there. Indeed it was as hard as I thought it would be and even though it took me 50 minutes to prove, in the end the pressure of not getting an A increased my IQ and allowed me to prove it.

You can't really force yourself to increase your IQ because you cannot pressure yourself. If you say "If I do not prove this then I will not eat ice cream later!" then what you will do is try really hard and even if you cannot prove it, you will feel good about trying and will still eat your ice-cream like a retard.

Sometimes you just need a metaphorical gun to your head to prove the hardest theorems.

>>8432929
if this is intended as bait it's reasonably subtle
not bad 7/10

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>>8432753
> tuitions are very inflated
> millennials who have rich parents
> useless non-stem degrees

artificially flavored bacon bait

>>8430097
Africans invented the first electric wind turbine so how dare you call them retarted.

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>>8433000
WE WUZ TURBINES N SHEEIIIT

>>8432929
I once worked on a problem for like five hours because of ego, and guess what, I solved it. I even had to prove a smaller theorem to prove it (it had to do something with the excircles), so not everyone is a lazy no-drive dumbass like you.

>>8429800
College is assisted self-education. All learning you do depends on your drive.
>>8429812
>>8431376
A little bit of both of these.

>>8432980
while it is true, i'm a millenial whose parents have lots of money and offered to pay for my college, they needn't to. College pays for itself if you're not a brainlet.

>>8433713
Look, I know it may be hard to actualize, but don't ever let anyone tell you it's your generations fault for anything. They love to blame you for the housing market because you're not buying, the automobile market because you're not buying, the kid market because you're not producing consumers. For a multitude of generational stress factors, factors that are out of everyone's control, your gen is not buying themselves in the traditional and irrational consumption treadmill. A bachelors degree is the new HS diploma. The economy is churning out debtors to grow GDP. We're at the end of a paradigm.

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>>8432929
>you will feel good about trying and will still eat your ice-cream like a retard.

so true

>>8431096
Speaking as someone who has written a routine to interpret mathematical expressions expressions and generate executable pseudocode I would say:

1. There is an implied "*" between the five and the opening bracket. A parser would reject that expression as having a syntax error.

2. Unless modified by brackets, "*" and "/" have equal ranking and it doesn't matter which you do first. Likewise for "+" and "-"

>>8429800
Yes, it's nothing surprising.
That's why everyone who is in college should also self-study.
Just going to college and doing nothing won't make you smarter, it's waste of your time.

>>8431489
If you cannot get a job after self-studying, then it means you are not really that good at it.
I learned a lot about programming on my own during middle and high school and become team leader from start, even though I was on first year of CS.

>>8431498
>When I was in 2nd grade I was placed in "gifted classes". They weren't called AP until middle school, and by then I was in foster care with failing grades and an emotional crisis. I was continuously told by my foster parents I was stupid, even when scoring in the 99th percentile on my exams without doing any schoolwork.
I was in the exact same situation but with biological parents. I just stopped caring about what they think and self-learn all the time. After barely finishing HS, I got into pretty great university, found job and could move far away from this bullshit. Now I'm doing degree purely for fun, I already know everything I need for work.

>>8429800
Assuming you aren't a poor fag college is better. If you are a non retarded poor fag there are a shit ton of scholorships that want to jump on your dick.

If you are a mid, to upper middle class high functioning retard then probably not. Teach yourself, save the 1/4 million and call it good.

>>8430957
Are modern math teachers semi-retarded?
20/5(2*2)
20/5*4
4*4
16
There are ZERO ways this ever equals 1

>>8434810
20/5(2*2)
numerator = 20
denominator = 5(2*2) = 5(4) = 20
20/20 = 1

This isn't hard dude

>>8434911
On what planet are the order of operations right to left???
Parentheses are higher priority than * and / .
* and / have equal priority and are evaluated from left to right.
There are ZERO ways this can be misinterpreted.

>>8434810
>>8434945
Sometimes it is convenient if 20/5(2*2) means 20/(5(2*2)) and 20/5*(2*2) means (20/5)*(2*2), because we don't have to use a shitton of parentheses. It is this usage that can confuse the average brainlet.

Anybody who uses the term "order of operations" is a fucking retard.

How do we save mathematics?