Fluoridation

It makes humble water filter merchants a lot of money.

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>>8409108
That's the second time I've seen that phrase. Is that the consensus? The fluoride myth was propagated to create a market for filters?

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it works by replacing a more soluble OH- in teeth enamel
teeth have less propensity to demineralize with fluoride bonded in

>>8409102
No, it's a retarded meme. Every substance is toxic in sufficiently large amounts, even pure water. Because something is poisonous at one amount doesn't mean it's poisonous at every amount.

>>8409111
This political cartoon kinda supports fluoridated water. It's saying polio vaccines are bad and that mental health is bad.

>>8409141
Thank you based sci

>>8409139
It's not completely retarded though because in a small percentage of areas they actually put in too much fluoride.

>>8409122
That's interesting, but I was more concerned with the science behind fluorides effect on the brain, if there's any at all.

>>8409141
I think it's moreso mocking the idea that drugs can provide a "clean mind."

>>8409151
What is too much?

>>8409102
If fluoridated water had anywhere near the kind of harmful effects idiots claim it does, then we'd all be dying at ridiculous rates.

I mean, lets be serious here. Picture claims 1/10 of an ounce of fluoride will kill someone. Lets test this out.

>flurodide killz!11!1
>but we've been adding fluoride to water supplies for decades and haven't seen any increase in fluoride related deaths.
>even a little bit of flororoDIED will kill you!
>anyone in the city intakes fluoride regularly, and we don't see people dying from the relatively large doses they're getting.

If fluoridation measures hadn't been extensively implemented already, you could argue that there isn't enough data to know for sure, or that its faked or biased or whatever. But fluoridated water is fucking everywhere, and no one is dying from it.

>>8409152
if it was in high enough concentration to cause brain damage then we would have noticed by now
particularly in unborn fetuses

fluoride doesnt accumulate in the body so as long as there is no increase in fluorine in the water then there is nothing to worry about

dont eat toothpaste though

>>8409164
Does it necessarily have to damage the brain to have the complacency effect?

>>8409155
mental hygiene n. The branch of psychiatry that deals with the science and practice of maintaining and restoring mental health, and of preventing mental disorder through education, early treatment, and public health measures.

This is from way before modern psychology.

>>8409163
>Everywhere
As in America? Is tooth health really so important that our government spends the money to mix chemicals into our drinking water? I mean, that doesn't help the dental industry, does it?

>>8409182
The cartoon is saying mental health fueled by monkey serums and whatever is deadly. 'Hygiene' was used for its specific connotation.

>>8409190
Its not like its expensive. I don't know the whole story over how and why it was introduced, but I am pretty sure its handled on a local level. So the mayors and city councils and such decide to fluoridate water, not "the government." Total costs are presumably very low and it stays on the local level, so I'm completely unsurprised that its prevalent now.

>>8409102
There's literally no proof it enhances or maintains your health. Dentistry is like Psychiatry. Both are equally retarded.

>>8409217
>>8409210
Someone mentioned fluoridation in the dentist office while I was in the chair. The dentist and the staff all chuckled and said there's no such thing...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

That's how well informed even the professionals are about it.

Personally, I believe that it is illegal to medicate the public in this manner without telling them.

>>8409210
What you described sounds like what I would call local government. Regardless of how it's conducted, though, I'm more interested in why.

>>8409222
>trips of truth
The exact problem I have with all this. I feel like I don't know enough and can't trust what I'm told.

>>8409177
those are the main bad effects
otherwise flouride poisoning amounts to gastro discomfort and flu symptoms until your body gets rid of it

>Fluoride’s ability to damage the brain is one of the most active areas of fluoride research today. Over 300 studies have found that fluoride is a neurotoxin (a chemical that can damage the brain).

Source: http://fluoridealert.org/issues/health/brain/

>>8409102
Fluoride is a waste product from phosphate fertilizer production that companies have figured out how to sell, rather than get rid of the costly way. It wasn't so long ago they were just dumping it in nearby rivers, and they contaminated a large of Florida in particular this way. Now they may make money off of it.

It has no valid reason to be forcefully added to a population's water supply, and has no positive effect. Studies have consistently failed to find a consistent correlation between fluoridation and caries rates.

Also, they're not adding sodium fluoride, they're adding various complex and reactive compounds with breakdown chains that are difficult to predict, and these same sources are contaminated with heavy metals. So enjoy all that I guess, along with hormone intake from excreted birth control pills.

You want fluoride? Get it in toothpaste, where it'll actually be sodium fluoride and actually have mechanically non-trivial interaction with the tooth surface. There is no defending this.

>>8409164
Mistakes happen. Just look at some Chinese literature, and see what the CCP thinks of fluoride.

>>8409390
Also, there's the problem of dose control. Refer to the woman who developed skeletal fluorosis via excessive tea intake while drinking fluoridated water.

Those of you who defend fluoridation, please show some evidence of America's superior dental health in comparison to Europe.
If there are no benefits to fluoridation, it's immoral, not simply superfluous but immoral, to practice it.

>>8409470
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=european+teeth+vs+american+teeth

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Gp6QkUC54

>>8409190

You know that a bunch of other chemicals are mixed into the water, right? Both naturally and by the government

If you drank PURE water, you'd shit your pants for days and potentially die due to literal water poisoning.

>>8409260

what a terrible source misrepresenting how much fluoride is actually used in water. The quantity of fluoride used in the studies analyzed by the NRC meta analysis are ridiculously above the amount used in water for luoridation

I'm reading this fucking thread and I'm baffled. Is this a board about science or is this /x/? What a bunch of conspiracy nutjobs in here.

Fluoride makes you dumber no joke...

>>8409152
>>8409164
I don't think fluoride goes through the blood-brain barrier at all. But I am not sure, just don't really see how it could.

Hydrofluoric / fluoride poisoning is painful and if treated too late, it kills you. But that won't happen at low concentrations (and with low, I do mean ppm here, while some ppm is obscenely high for some other poisonous substances).

>>8409237
The issue us, you cannot be informed over everything. Do you know that tap water features a remarkable concentration of gadolinum? Do you know where it comes from and what it is used for? Do you know how it is related to fibrosis even though it is eliminated out of the body most of the time? It has been more of a recent issue that the Gadolinum species used in MR scans are no longer thought to be completely safe despite being considered to be logically and evidently safe. Some things you only learn more about in hindsight.
In my opinion, you are still responsible to inform yourself why something is done, or else you can deny all kinds of things based on you not knowing why they are alleged to be good for you.

>>8409702
Oh look out we got a badass over here!

>>8409470
Europe has fluoridated salt and toothpaste. It is just another means of supply, but I would be surprised if it had fundamentally different results.

>>8409390
>Studies have consistently failed to find a consistent correlation between fluoridation and caries rates.
Please show your homework if you claim to have made it, i.e. cite those studies or a review thereof.

Example:
http://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/325151
Page 43 of http://ebd.ada.org/~/media/EBD/Files/Topical_fluoride_for_caries_prevention_2013_update.ashx

>Also, they're not adding sodium fluoride, they're adding various complex and reactive compounds with breakdown chains that are difficult to predict
Show your homework, I am not going to guess what you might have meant.

>You want fluoride? Get it in toothpaste, where it'll actually be sodium fluoride
And also olaflur. But whatever. Consider the following: Hydrofluoric acid is not a strong acid, albeit stronger than acetic acid. In equilibria, most of the fluoride is protonated, forming hypofluoric acid. All fluoride ions do that. By that follows that any soluable ionic fluoride will do, if the toxicity of the rest is neglected.

>>8409398
Yes, that might actually be an issue which favours fluoride in tooth paste, but I can also see people getting fluorosis from brushing their teeth 3 times a day, 10 minutes at a time. I know some people who do that.

>>8409720
Why would you think fluoride doesn't cross the BBB when it's so very tiny that it obviously does?

>>8409741
>getting fluorosis from brushing their teeth 3 times a day, 10 minutes at a time
Why would they do that? What is wrong with them? Do they suffer from some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder?

pretty sure sodium fluoride is a highly toxic industrial byproduct and the whole 'it kills plaque lmao' sales pitch is just a slick way to dispose of millions of tons of the junk

>>8409741
>>8409750
Jesus fucking christ...

Fluorosis is a developmental disorder and you cannot get it by fluoride overuse as an adult.

Also this whole thread made my brain melt. /sci/ is the new /x/ I swear.

t. angry dentist

>>8409757
>highly toxic

Fluoride in water and tooth paste is no where near the concentration and amount of chemically pure sodium fluoride. Did you even read the msds for sodium fluoride you dunce?

>>8410151
Further more

You know what else is super highly toxic? Phenol is highly toxic and will kill you on minutes should even a few drops land on your skin

But phenol is in chapstick and throat cough drops

>>8409398
that was the woman that drank a can of tea every day and used 20 teabags per can

>>8410158
Also because phenol is used as a pain reliever. Paralyzes nerve endings and shit but it's only like a few ppm

>>8409730
most salt here also contains iodine.
and guess here in germany we have conspiracies about that to.

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>>8409102

good that i live in germany we have a flouride using
factory in our town (solvay) but no flouride in our water

what are your conspiracies on chloride in tab water ?

>>8410188
They'll say some shit like chlorine is used in world War one and killed millions of people

Meanwhile there's more salt in a can of corn that has chlorone than you'll ever consume in your water

>>8409164
>if it was in high enough concentration to cause brain damage then we would have noticed by now

Did someone say it causes brain damage? SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU CONSPIRACY NUT JOB!!! NO ONE IS LISTENING TO YOU!

Like I said , we would have noticed it and someone would have said something.

I don't even care if fluoride is good for your teeth or bad for whtaever else, it's just retarded to forcibly medicate the entire population through the water supply. Medication should always be a choice, out of principle.

>>8410218
THIS

Its not like fluoride is an essential nutrient like calcium or something. Aren't teeth made of calcium? Why don't we put that in the water instead?

>>8409102
>what are back of the envelope calculations
Do you know how much water you'd have to drink to ingest a tenth of an ounce of fluoride? Like 3 tons

>>8410242
>Aren't teeth made of calcium? Why don't we put that in the water instead?
because you already get calcium through your diet normally.

Fluoride protects the teeth that are normally prone to acids like with sugary drinks or carbonated drinks. By replacing the -OH group on Enamel with Fluorine, the strength increases due to fluorine being an excellent protecting group

>>8410242
Because any water drawn from aquifers will have calcium in it already, as well as a dozen other trace minerals. Some water even contains a naturally high concentration of fluoride. Fuck, it was the observation that populations receiving water from high-fluoride sources had lower rates of dental cavities that caused people to want to fluoridate the water.

But anyway this whole thread and subject is a meme and has been since the fucking sixties, go watch Dr. Strangelove. Only that time it was the Commies fluoridating our body fluids and causing erectile dysfunction.

>>8410193
Had a town meeting last year about our town's water supply having fluoride in it and a bunch of fucking tinfoil hat hicks spewing bullshit about how sodium fluoride is an industry waste and all sorts of nonsense.

I hate it when non-chemists talk about chemistry, if theres anything that pisses me off more its idiots who spew bullshit about things they don't fucking know

>>8410437
Luckily such people come across in person as as crazy as they really are, which (ironically) filters their opinion from mainstream public discourse.

>but water has fluoride in it naturally!!!!

That's calcium fluoride. Which isn't added to water. 3 industrial waste products are what is put into drinking water: "Sodium fluoride; Fluorosilicic acid; Sodium fluorosilicate".

>hey we got all this dangerous industrial waste, wat do?
>pay heaps of money to dispose of it properly using strict guidelines?
>...naw, let's sell it to cities as a supplement to their water supply!
>GENIUS!

>>8410437
>about how sodium fluoride is an industry waste and all sorts of nonsense.

Fluorosilicic acid, Sodium fluorosilicate and Sodium fluoride are all waste products of phosphate fertilizer and aluminum production. As well as being waste products of several other industries.

That is what they are and they are sold as such.

>>8410151
thanks for calling me a dunce, but i didn't say fluoride was toxic in the concentrations found in toothpaste

what i said was that it was highly toxic, and it is, in the concentrations it exists in as an industrial byproduct

slightly annoyed i had to explain that to a scientist but there you go

>>8409111
Of course not. It was created to sell waste from the aluminium industry.

>>8409122
The argument they usually make is not "let's not use toothpaste!"
It's "lets not swallow toothpaste, even a small amount!"
"Toothpaste shouldn't be in the tap water!"
Although Richard Feynman might recommend not using toothpaste.

>>8410501
You can't determine toxicity from concentration, only by dose. Saying that a certain concentration of NaF is toxic is nonsense.

>>8410501
>[talk about NaF in water]
>YEA ITS A SUPER TOXIC INDUSTRIAL WASTE, I'm contributing, totally not spewing the same irrelevant and fear mongering dribble

>>8410468
Industrial waste is a buzzword

Water can come from industrial run off and deposited as waste. There are specific EHS and EPA standards for how all sorts of waste can be disposed of even if its inert and harmless chemicals.

>>8410645
Doses are usually rated with a concentration attached

>>8410645
>Toxicity to Animals:
Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 52 mg/kg [Rat].
>Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals:
Lowest Published Lethal Dose: LDL [Human] - Route: Oral; Dose: 71 mg/kg LDL [Woman] - Route: Oral; Dose: 90 mg/kg LDL
[Woman] - Route: Oral; Dose: 360 mg/kg LDL [Mouse] - Route: Skinl; Dose: 300 mg/kg

>>8410674
I'm not sure what you mean by doses being "rated" but dose is not the same thing as concentration.

>>8409102

Why does this not mention the birth control contamination. A small amount of fluoridation does nothing, but the plastics and birth control are fucking with sex hormones

Fuckin shill meme

>>8410677
Wow you sure showed me! Oh wait... mg/kg is not concentration. Dunce.

>>8410411
>that caused people to want to fluoridate the water

Does anyone really want fluroride in their water? Like is there a group of people petitioning the goverment to increase their fluoride levels? THEY DON'T EXIST! They'd just buy mouthwash.

>>8410410
It also replaces iodine in every part of your body leading to a 10-15 point IQ decrease, autism, anxiety, and depression which have all become epidemic in the western world.

This dangerous side effects of fluoride could be avoided if you simply don't swallow fluoride, but since it's in the fucking water you have no choice. You either swallow the fluoride of die of dehydration. People should have a choice. Those who choose can buy mouthwash and toothpaste. Buy the shit the way Americas do!

>>8410670
Water is natural. This stuff is man-made:

Fluorosilicic acid
Sodium fluorosilicate
Sodium fluoride

They are also not inert or harmless and yes there are standards for their disposal which costs a shit load more money than selling it to be put in drinking water.

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This shit can't be fucking true AT ALL! You can't just medicate people without their express consent, that is fucking illegal as all fuck.

>>8409122

Do you guys source here? Lookup fluoridation of teeth, and effects of fluoride on soft (neural) tissue on pubmed.

Also loook into chocolate and how it has neuroprotective properties

>>8409480
Wow. So the lesson is to never eat cement?

>>8410692
Mg/kg is also known as ppm which is a unit used for measuring the concentration and presence of a substance in a materials composition

>>8410749
>these are not inert

They are inert as rated on the HMIS label

It doesnt matter if it's natural, you know how many natural chemicals there are that can cause great harm to you? This naturalist argument doesn't mean shit and it's on par with homeopathy science. Full of buzzwords and falsehoods, half baked ideas and more.

Uranium is natural, drink up kids

>>8410733
There is no evidence of any of this fear mongering shit

>>8410574
is this true?
back in the days they invented rim stones to get rid of their 1,4-Dichlorobenzene

>>8410188
addidional fact today i read that they investigate that the company may have leaked Trifluoroacetic acid in a nearby river contaminating the water suply of two big cities

>>8409701
This. Eating fish and most fruits is dangerous too! Because they have stuff in them that can kill you or cause brain damage! But lets just forget the fact that they are in such tiny amounts that you cant eat enough of that shit no matter how hard you try to die from it.
Its like how appleseeds have some form of cyanide in them. Eating appleseeds wont kill you, but if you were to make concentrate out of the substance in there, using a gorillion seeds, yeah it would kill you. People are so retarded.

>>8411659
>comparing uranium to water to debunk "it is natural"

Being a complete retard is also natural, kid.

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This is what you need to ask yourself:

1: Is this food or water?
2: Is this food or water going to maintain my health and well being?

If the first answer is "no" then stop right there. You have no business in putting it in your body. You need to access the individual ingredients of the food and water using these questions. You do not need to go into tinfoil hat-land and drum up conspiracies. You only need to be very logical about it.

It is utterly astounding how illogical humans can be.

>>8411656
Yeah, too bad we're not talking about the presence of a substance in a material's composition. For fucks sake, just accept you don't know what you're talking about instead of spending hours on google trying to bullshit your way to an excuse.

>>8411677
This brings me back to>>8410437
Retards trying to talk about chemistry and know nothing of it

>>8411705
Ppm is concentration

>>8411698

>water is natural
>so is Uranium
>that's not the same!

Ur retarded

>>8411703
>1: Is this food or water?
Fluoridated water is water, yes. If you broke every food down into its component chemicals, almost none of them would be "food". Or they all would be food since food contains them. Is natural water not water because it naturally contains metallic ions? The question makes no sense since you have not defined food or water (well you arbitrarily defined it to come to the conclusion you wanted to reach, but that's not "logical" at all)

>2: Is this food or water going to maintain my health and well being?
Yes.

>>8411710
>Ppm is concentration
Wait I think I'm beginning to understand. Concentration means focusing on an idea, therefore ppm is focusing on an idea. Wow, I never realized that we can just ignore context and call two things the same thing because they have similarities...

>>8411712
You're an idiot

>>8411698
You've been guzzling the flouride mate - your brain is fried

>>8411711
Fluoridated water isn't "water" it is "fluoridated" water. That's a big difference. It also isn't needed for maintain or improve health. Water that has not has one of the three industiral fluorides added to it but has calcium fluoride in it is natural. However, you still need to ask the same questions.

It seems to me that you misunderstand the context and meaning of these logical questions for either trolling purposes or because you are greatly ignorant.

>>8411703
Are vaccines food or water? Are anitbiotics? Antiretrovirals? Painkillers? Replacement hips are made of metal, that's not food - and yet people put those in their bodies and live better lives for it.

Caring whether something is 'natural' or not is unscientific, all that matters is observable effects measured scientifically.

Which in the case of fluoridated water show that it reduces cavity formation and had no negative effects.

>>8411712
What the fuck

>>8409102
don't drink hot water from the tap, brainlet

>>8411677
>Eating fish is dangerous too
>such tiny amounts that you cant eat enough of that shit no matter how hard you try to die from it

You're not even wrong kiddo.
Mercury poisoning from eating tunafish everyday won't kill you. It might give you permanent brain damage and other health complications. I know what you're thinking, "There's no proof!" That's because morons like you shitpost with out even looking anything. Check out the EPA's guidelines for tunafish. They recommend you eat no more than 3 cans a week to prevent mercury poisoning. Seems like you've been eating more than that.

It's like the internet is filled with people who are waiting for someone to bring up a controversial subject so they can self righteously call them stupid and feel good about themselves. NO! You should feel bad! Do the damn research before joining in an adult conversation.

>>8410664
>dribble
it's DRIVEL not fucking dribble you twat where did you learn english

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>>8410777

>>8411877
>that's a big difference
How is it a big difference?

>It isn't needed
So what? You don't need the vast vast majority of things you eat. The question is whether it is beneficial. Yes it is since it reduces the chance of caries.

Your questions aren't "logical", they serve no purpose other than to mislead people into focusing on irrelevancies. A logical question would lead to a relevant fact about fluoridated water with respect to whether it should be used.

>>8411736
>Dose is concentration because they use the same units, sort of
You're an idiot.

>>8412092
>n>>8412145
ueral

>>8409163
Why would dying be the only way to suffer from the effects?

>>8409102
honestly mcdonalds is more toxic than .00001 fluroide in tap water.

>>8412148
Yes things of the same units are comparable you shithead

ppm is concentration, you're fucking dumb

1ppm of fluoride in water is harmless, 70ppm of fluoride in water is toxic

Fluoride prevents tooth decay in the right amounts and too much can cause damage to your body. I don't know why this is so fucking hard to understand.

>>8412398
>too much can cause damage to your body

The problem is it accumulates in your body like heavy metals. It replaces vital nutrients that your body needs, like iodine. There is no "safe" level that won't cause damage. Just levels that don't show overt symptoms. Fluoride should never be taken internally.

Didn;t read any of the replies but let me tell you that a lot of componds isolates and in high concentrations can have deleterious affects on human health. just look up the MSDS for sodium chloride (table salt) as an example. Mice studies with supraphysiol;ogical dosages =/= reality in humans .

I am hvery druink sorry

>>8412414
Citations please as all I've ever found that coincide with what you're stating are from sites with obvious agendas.

>>8412414
it doesn't build up in the body

>inb4 a "citation" about calcification of the pineal gland that has nothing to do with fluoride

>>8412368
So drinking 70 ounces of 1ppm fluoridated water is safe but 1 ounce of 70 ppm fluoridated water is harmful?

>>8412570
correct, the toxological effects received at that concentration of fluoride is much more dangerous seeing as your body can't process THAT much THAT quickly

its why its so bad to be exposed to mercury but consuming it in fish is safe by comparison

>>8409942
>Skeletal fluorosis cannot occur in adults
I'd pull your license if I were me.

>>8410437
But they're right.

>>8412580
You have no idea what you're talking about. The account of mercury in a typical carniverous fish is so miniscule you would not even see it if it were pure. Nothing would happen to you if you were exposed to it directly.

>>8412643
see
>>8411919

>>8412145
>>It isn't needed
>So what?
So shit is put in the water supply whithout any necessity. Besides all the discussion going on here, that alone in and of itself should be enough not to do it.

>>8412703
Its like you didn't even read the latter half of his post

1. The poster is mostly misinformation. Any substance can be poisonous, if given a high enough dose.

2. Fluoride is NOT the active ingredient in most insecticides. Fluorine is present in many chemical insecticides as part of its chemical structure. But once bound (rather than a free fluoride ion), it does not have the same properties. The statement is like saying "Oxygen is a poison because carbon monoxide (CO) is poisonous when inhaled."

3. 1/10th an ounce can kill a 100 lb adult. The problem is...no adult is ever exposed to 1/10th an ounce of fluoride, which is roughly 3 grams. The amount put in water is 1.2 ppm or 1.2 milligrams per litre. In order to get 3 grams of fluoride, you would need to drink 2,500 litres (660 gallons) of water...and you'd have to drink it fast enough so that the concentration actually builds up in the body. The water would kill you long before the fluoride does. The same comparison with the infant is exactly the same, since an infant is 10 pounds or so while you are 100 pounds.

4. It's almost impossible to show fluoride can statistically increase bone cancer risk. Since the rates are already so low among the 200 different types of human cancers. I have yet to see a definitive study linking bone cancer increases in populations with municipally fluoridated water vs populations without fluoridated water.

The "studies" that it is referring to is probably a toxicity study where people test chemicals on rats. Tox studies are designed to use chemical doses WAAY higher than what people are actually exposed to - and in a short period of time. So they're exposing rats to 1000x the concentration in 24 hours, while people are exposed to very low concentrations, but the same total amount over the course of several years.

>>8412713
It's irrelevant. The real question is if chemicals should be added to the water supply that are completely unrelated to the functioning of water supply (e.g. chlorine), the answer is no. Everything else, is fluoridated water healthy or not etc..., just detracts from the real issue, which is mass medication without consent or the possibility of individual choice.

>>8412750
>just detracts from the real issue, which is mass medication without consent or the possibility of individual choice.
This is America. We practice everything from giving antipsychotics to misbehaving children, to ritualized neonatal genital cutting. Our culture has normalized so many elements of overstepped personal boundaries, you will never, ever, get to the real issue. It's practically alien to people, especially when they subconsciously know it's being imposed by a greater force.

Maybe in another 10 years.

>>8412750
it sounds like you're purposely detracting from a stance of public health and safety. For example Vitamin D infused Milk and Orange Juice also fall into those realms of "no don't do that its public medication" or some shit

Let alone talking about vaccines which contribute to public health and safety by creating community and herd immunity

>>8412774
>it sounds like you're purposely detracting from a stance of public health and safety.
If you want my stance on fluoride use: apply it topically with toothpaste (which everyone does already) or at the dentist (which also happens). But really, it's not the matter.
> For example Vitamin D infused Milk and Orange Juice also fall into those realms of "no don't do that its public medication" or some shit
Yea, kinda, but those are not as extreme as tap water of course.
Vaccines are literally a medical necessity to prevent people getting deadly sick, it's not in the same league as getting less holes in your teeth from ingesting something that should be topically applied anyway.

>>8409102
>lead
Most pipes are made of it and the only reason we aren't all incredibly sick and stupid is because of a "bio-film" which separates lead particles from the water inside the pipe.

>>8412774
Vitamin D and calcium, aren't fluoride. They have a well established biological purpose. Fluoride is not known to have any biological use, nor benefit, beyond some suggestions that it could be involved in osteoblast function and signalling. Though osteoblasts in vitro do just fine.

That anon probably wants to avoid the health and safety aspect because humans are known to have a pitiful capacity for risk assessment and rational decision making. They also bring up clutter like what you just tried to drag in. I do not blame them for avoiding it, it's a mess to wade through when there's a very clear answer sitting there all along.

>>8412783
The concentration of fluoride in tooth paste is not chemically favorable to create fluoroappatite compared to the concentration in water.

>those are not as extreme as tap water
there is no difference, its additives to drinks that otherwise aren't there and aren't necessary for it.

>vaccines
are required just for kids to go to public school and college. Immunization records are required.

>>8412791
>additives in packaged soft drinks is the same as additives in municipal tap water

>>8412791
>The concentration of fluoride in tooth paste is not chemically favorable to create fluoroappatite compared to the concentration in water.
Nonsense. The concentration, contact with the tooth surface, and duration of contact, of fluoridated water is trivial.

>>8412799
Not always, Some molecules when the concentration is too high will not bond to specific ligands or perform substitutions because they literally get in the way of each other. Fluorine being a special snowflake in its own regard will bind to the most locally stable and readily available substance in solution.

>>8412750
>The real question is
No. The real question is why should anyone care about adding fluoride to the water if it has benefits and no downsides? Fuck off with your retarded attempt to dictate the terms of the argument.

>>8412676
How does that respond to anything I said? Moron.

>>8412904
>and no downsides?
Because you don't know this, and it's rooted in bad risk assessment. Keep unneccesary elements out by default and add them in selectively. This is where choice comes in.

>>8412913
>Because you don't know this
I know this because it's a very well studied chemical.

But you're right, w can't no nuffinz so I guess we should never do anything ever. Oh wait, we should only do what you like and not do what you read on naturalnews is bad? What a fucking coincidence. Get off /sci/, scum.

>>8412921
This reads like the post of someone who only reads meta-analysis.

>>8412904
let's just eliminate drinking water entirely and only have orange juice on tap. orange juice has benefits and no downsides.

>>8412931
Oh no! Meta-analysis. Is that supposed to be bad or scary? What the hell is wrong with you?

>>8412939
Gibberish response. I'll take that as a yes.

Try reading primary literature and forming your own conclusions.

>>8412950
>you only read meta-analysis!
>meta analysis bad!
>primary source good!
Where are you getting this shit?

>>8412982
While meta-analysis can provide greater clarity and insight, from a broader perspective, via aggregating all relevant literature and cross evaluating for quality, contradiction, and holes, those same mechanisms can provide a skewed or disingenuous perspective via biased inclusion criteria, sourcing, and weighting. I've seen absurd levels of bullshitting in meta-analysis. But a well crafted one might be relatively transparent while still polluting the overall literature, muddying the collective dialogue, and serving whatever purpose it was designed for.

So like most things, it's dualistic. Whether any bias is intentional or not, it's best to form your own conclusions rather than convincing yourself you're being smart by not duplicating the honest and legitimate work of others. It might be neither.

tl;dr, because you seem kind of dense. Meta-analysis are a good way to spin things. Always refer to the full pool of literature available.

>>8413016
Retard, the only one who brought up meta-analysis is you. When you want to get back to the discussion rather than wallowing in your fantasy world, tell me.

>>8413037
Loops back to the start.
>>8412931

Though to be honest, I lied. It actually reads like someone who doesn't know what a meta-analysis is. I just figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

>>8409102
it's equivalent to the "immunizing causes autism" movement

>>8413041
Right. It's actually Wi-Fi and cell phones that cause autism. Mercury exposure and flukes in antibody generation are very hit or miss.

Good catch.

Is tap water bad for hydroponics?

>>8413040
This loops back to you writing a non-response to the fact that flouride is well studied and we know its effects at low doses. Again, feel free to return to the discussion at any time if you are done babbling about meta-analyses and making shit up about what I know and read.

>>8413051
And yet they still don't answer.

>>8409470
After you show American softdrink, sugary condiments and bread lifestyle compares with Europeans.

>>8409480
Good thing our teeth don't have the same chemical composition as cement.

>>8413065
That does sound pretty fortunate.

>>8409222

In your local area the dentist may have been telling the truth. The conspiracy retards make it sound like tons of the stuff is being pumped into every aquifer in the United States. The water table over which I was born in Idaho is one of the largest in the United States, and there would have to be fuel truck sized tanks in a line all day dumping it into the water to gain even the benefit they want for the population for teeth enamel, let alone getting close to toxicity. Since most of the population there are on well water, they aren't receiving any unless they get it from the dentist.

Fun fact, they are all against Trump and Hillary. Maybe flouride does have some pacification effect....

>>8413016
>>8412931
Anonberg, the plural of "meta-analysis" is "meta-analyses."

Howcome the same people who are scared of fluorine never complain about chlorine, which is also added to water, and is chemically similar?

>>8409102
Just so everyone knows the meme is that fluoride "calcifies your pineal gland" which blocks your third eye chakra. No joke this is what fluoridephobes believe. Its complete psuedoscience. Its not some fucking conspiracy theory. You really think we've been consuming dangerous amounts of fluoride all our lives? You realize the people who you think are purposefully contaminating the water would be drinking the same water as you right?

>ctrl+f
>"flouride"
>6 results
hmm, exactly as suspected.

>>8409480
>hydro-fluoro sycilic acid

not fluoride
i dont like fluoride in water but it seems like the whole brain damage thing is a meme

now lets talk about chemtrails

>>8413170
S-Sorry...

>>8413184
They do, but recognize it's there to suppress organisms that might otherwise grow in the water. Meanwhile, no one is acknowledging the high levels of excreted hormones from birth control pills, circulating in city water.

>>8412904
>The real question is why should anyone care about adding fluoride to the water if it has benefits and no downsides?
Because it has nothing at all to do with the business of supplying clean drinkwater. For example the dutch authorities ruled in the 70s that water companies should stop adding fluoride to the drinking water, because it is not vital to the actual water system and there is no practical alternative for people who don't want fluoridated water.

>>8412481
It actually does but the side effects aren't bad (whitespots on teeths and maybe low level sclerosis - can be treated effectively).

Notice: this will probably only happen when small retarded kids gets big doses of toothpaste and swollow much of it on the daily multiple times.

>>8412774
>Vitamin D infused Milk and Orange Juice also fall into those realms of "no don't do that its public medication"

HOLY FUCKING SHIT MAN! You have a faucet in your home for milk and OJ!! What town offers that public utility?

>>8413619
>Because it has nothing at all to do with the business of supplying clean drinkwater.
It doesn't take anything away from supplying clean drinking water, so why do you care?

>For example the dutch authorities ruled in the 70s that water companies should stop adding fluoride to the drinking water, because it is not vital to the actual water system and there is no practical alternative for people who don't want fluoridated water.
So what? I don't care about what tinfoilers want, I care about rational arguments. You keep putting up these arbitrary standards that you expect others to follow. That's not rational argument.

>>8413780
Distinction without a difference. If you want water without fluoride then buy water without fluoride.

>>8409695
Is no one else gonna call this idiot out?

>>8413924
>It doesn't take anything away from supplying clean drinking water
I'd say putting chemicals in it for no reason does just that, but mainly I just think ingesting whatever medication should be out of choice and on an opt-in basis. It's a pretty fundamental principle that people have the right to decide what to do with their own bodies, even if it does little harm it would be dumb to throw that principle out the window just because "it doesn't matter anyway".
> I care about rational arguments
You don't think "medication does not belong in public water supply" is a rational argument?

>>8413926
I guess tap water is barely potable in the US either way but over here everyone drinks/cooks from the tap.

also
>Muh tinfoil bogeyman

>>8409159

I used to test town water supplies, we were reasonably late to the fluoridation system so I tested before and after its introduction. If levels were recorded >1.0ppm notifying the health department was mandatory../Australian Drinking Water Guidelines. I was/am against it more for the fact it costs money and most people don't drink tap water but rather soft drink/alcohol/bottled water and the stuff mostly gets flushed down the toilet. Cost a small fortune to install dosing equipment and training staff and its levels have to be monitored regularly.

Another aspect I'm curious about is body mass - Remember parents feeding their infants with formula are mixing it with fluoridated water, and these children don't even have teeth..

>>8411888
What spectrum are you?

>>8411919
>>8412676
>Mercury poisoning from eating tunafish everyday won't kill you

It can and it has.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

>>8414065
>I'd say putting chemicals in it for no reason does just that
But there is a reason.

>I just think ingesting whatever medication should be out of choice and on an opt-in basis. It's a pretty fundamental principle that people have the right to decide what to do with their own bodies
You do have a choice. No one is forcing you to drink tap water. And there is no reason for having an opt in when there is no reason to refuse fluoridated water in the first place. You keep demanding that your quack beliefs are accommodated when there is no reason to accommodate them. It's not an argument, just a demand.

>You don't think "medication does not belong in public water supply" is a rational argument?
No, it's not a rational argument. It's a completely emotional statement. Rational arguments have reasoning. You have no reasoning, just pandering to fears of the word "medication". Why is this particular medication bad? Why does it not belong in the public water supply?

>I guess tap water is barely potable in the US either way but over here everyone drinks/cooks from the tap.
And yet again you fail to respond to the point.

>>8414225
>Why does it not belong in the public water supply?
Because no medication does. The water supply is for supplying clean drinking water.
>And yet again you fail to respond to the point.
Point is that like you say, "No one is forcing you to drink tap water", maybe is more valid in the US than in europe where basically everyone drinks from the tap all the time.
Anyway we're going in circles so I'll leave it at this.

Ireland is the only country in the world to have fluoride in water mandated by law. This has existed since the 70s. When compared with the rest of the world Ireland comes out no better or worse than every developed country. When compared to the UK with near identical dietary habits they both have the same dental health.

If fluoride is supposed to prevent cavities and whatnot then why doesn't Ireland have the best dental health in the world?

That's not to say there's anything inherently sinister about fluoride in water (that it reduces IQ etc) but it is a neurotoxin and any substances that don't improve or make a difference in health should be removed from the water supply.

>>8414234
>Because no medication does.
Why? See, you just proved it's not a rational argument. It's just a statement you believe and want other to accept for no reason. Not rational, and not even an argument. Just a demand.

>The water supply is for supplying clean drinking water.
Fluoridated water is clean drinking water.

>Point is that like you say, "No one is forcing you to drink tap water", maybe is more valid in the US than in europe where basically everyone drinks from the tap all the time.
Again, that doesn't respond to the point. Regardless of whether everyone drinks tap water, you are not forced to.

>>8414135
>Cost a small fortune to install dosing equipment and training staff and its levels have to be monitored regularly.
Not to mention that the concentrated forms it comes in will eat through cement and errors can kill staff or require hazmat bullshit for a while.

>>8413926
If you want water with fluoride, buy water with fluoride. Supplying specialty products is the role of the private sector, not public utilities.

>>8414365
>If you want water with fluoride, buy water with fluoride.
I don't have to, moron.

>Supplying specialty products is the role of the private sector, not public utilities.
Not an argument.

>>8414374
>I don't have to, moron.
If I were in charge you would.

Deep down, psychologically I'm built like an old world aristocrat. It's frustrating and I can't reconcile it. Everyone wants power, but I'm beginning to go a bit mad dealing with people like you, and the problems your deficit of awareness creates.

Maybe one day I'll be running this show. And you will be buying fluoridated water while you finally finish fizzling out as the rest of the world moves on.

>>8414396
>If I were in charge you would.
Wow, but you're not. Your delusional fantasizing is cringe-worthy. Go back to >>>/x/

>>8414402
You would have said the same to Hitler when he was living homeless under a bridge.

Can you imagine how miserable it'd be being a dictator?

>>8414414
Yes, you're like Hitler... I think it's time for you take some real medication.

Fuck this gay thread I'm out.

>>8414429
:^)

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>>8409102
Its illegal in Europe. Make up your own mind. I say you Americucks are fucked because your corrupt government bends over for every lobbyist promising to support the party during election times. Time to revolve, my friends.

>>8409163
cancer at alarming rates. 80% are "unnatural" causes.

>>8409237
you cant. everyone has an agenda.

>>8409701
so less cyanide than kills you is fine? and totally not damaging to my system? i fuckin knew it

>>8410437
are you retarded? they fucking are waste products. or just a shill?

>>8409102
If a substance is damaging at any dose, it will do damage at the size of the dose, so even if small, it will be a repeated beating. like a handshake everysecond will deform your hand even if it doesnt show in a week. like how you will kill cells by starving them slightly over a long enough time they will die. if time=1week 10000 -1*t=9999, but 9999 is less. Brain killing is done for saving money and making money of the general population by waste-products that are cheap and already on hand, which would otherwise would be payed to be disposed of. Any "responsible" bussiness-owner would prefer 100000 usd + instead of 2000 usd out per month for a by-product of their manufacturing

>>8410437
then explain mister chemist, oh you are not a chemist? shut the fuck up then.

>>8415358
>If a substance is damaging at any dose, it will do damage at the size of the dose
This. If a substance has decent bioavailability and enters the body, regardless of the dose, it's going to act in accordance with its nature. There is, sometimes, a window for hormesis that equals out to a net positive at very low doses, but not always. And you shouldn't be deliberately taking in a toxin for such a hazy purpose anyway.

The biggest problem is that a large majority of people's logic is not rooted in hard mechanical thinking. They think in abstract terms of absorption and excretion rates, and some statistical notion of what will translate to macro effects with a given system, and this causes a loss of perspective. It's the same as thinking "I'm statistically less likely to die on a plane than traveling by land!" It's a limited statistical model and a naive heuristic based in practically nothing. The trucker that's driven his entire life can get on a plane for the first time, and be in a fatal crash. And he'd never know. You'd never know. That's just how life works.

So regardless, two things are to be said:
-Sodium fluoride is not what is added to water. It's one possible breakdown product of some of the heavy metal contaminant laden overall formulations, but not a given.
-Useless toxins are something to be removed, not brought into a given range (+ / -, some locations lower naturally occurring fluorides). Fluoride has no known use when taken internally. Cumulative effects over time are hard to model.

This is very simple. Portland recently stopped (wasting money) adding fluoride to their water. Hopefully more follow in the future.

Can the mods delete this thread already, it's attracting tinfoil pseuds.

Good job on deleting the climate change denial and smoking harm denial threads, now let's get the rest of this nonsense banned.

>>8415409
The mods deleted my thread about post-orgasm headaches and neurological problems. I'm still a tad upset.

>>8412613
What part of "enamel" you dont understand?

Fuck off back to /x/

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>>8415794

>>8415409
>I disagree with some posters in this thread
>mods delete it now REEEEEEEE

>>8415411
Hey shit, that was a good thread.

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>>8409102
>government medicates the public en-masse.
>google
>it is actually true

How is this legal?

>>8415411
That's because you need to fucking lurk moar to realize that such "sex" based threads are almost always just /b/ related shit. To the point where janitors are like "fuck it, deleted everything"

>>8415358
>>8415373
>If a substance is damaging at any dose, it will do damage at the size of the dose

That's too much of an umbrella term. You know that many substances are critical for the human body to consume in small amounts, but in large amounts they can outright kill you.

This does not reflect poorly on your core argument points, but please, next time be more concise so that baboons who read this shit don't start flinging poo over this type of retardation thinking they've defeated you.

>>8415797
That's from LSD dream emulator.

>>8415957
The effects are insignificant, therefore if you question it you're a conspiracy nut.

>>8410493
Define waste product, since most of the stuff you get in your food are waste product of industry (most are by-products from other reactions, like guar and xanthan gum, or left-overs like milk curd).

What I mean is waste product =/= dangerous poison.

Every fucking day

>>8409702
Half of this board or more is shit posting trolls, who frequent pol


Never go to these threads, cigarettes threads, race or intelligence threads because the polacks always show their limited capacity for data analysis.

>>8409702
I'm not a tinfoil hatter and I don't think the american government is purposely poisoning the people, it's just that I find fluoridation a bit silly and unnecessary and can't really see why people support it so vehemently. It's a perfectly valid discussion for a science board IMO.

>>8409139
>Because something is poisonous at one amount doesn't mean it's poisonous at every amount.

But it can still be more toxic/poisonous than other substances.

>>8409102

I don't know, but British people believe this.

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>>8415993
>medicate the public without their direct consent
>...if you question it...

No one should medicate the public, period.

>>8416117
That post was sarcastic.

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>>8416178
Like all the other obviously sarcastic posts ITT. What a great thread.

>not having a gravity filter that strips fluoride out of your water

enjoy the sterilization goyim

Inhibits the enolase enzyme responsible for glycolysis it is the 2nd last step. Converting 2-PG to PEP. Fluoride is a known competitor of enolase’s substrate 2-PG. The fluoride is part of a complex with magnesium and phosphate, which binds in the active site instead of 2-PG.[4] As such, drinking fluoridated water provides fluoride at a level that inhibits oral bacteria enolase activity. Disruption of the bacteria’s glycolytic pathway - and, thus, its normal metabolic functioning - prevents dental caries from forming

>>8416117
>No one should medicate the public, period.
Why not?

>>8416478
They should be medicated with something useful.

>>8409102
If I could afford it, I'd completely demineralize my water via destilation and reintroduce controlled amounts of high purity salts of my choice. I'd add minimal fluoride just in case.

>>8416487
That doesn't answer the question.

>>8416478
It's a fundamental human right to be allowed to decide what to do with your own body. That includes, IMO, which medications you take.

>>8416548
That doesn't answer the question. No one is forcing anyone to drink tap water, so your rights aren't being violated. Why should no one medicate tap water?

>>8416551
They are also not telling anyone it is medicated. Even bottled water and soda, while usually stating the source of the water doesn't say what has been added to the water.

>>8416561
That's because it's irrelevant. Again you refuse to answer the question. I can only assume you have no reason since you won't give one.

>>8416551
>>8416566
It is illegal to medicate the public without their consent or knowledge in the USA It is illegal to take rainwater where I live. It is illegal to own a water distiller where I live. It is dangerous to drink from natural water sources here because of extreme pollution. Literally the only sources of water in this area is in the form of city tap water, bottle water, & water-containing beverages & foods. All of which may or may not be fluoridated Labeling is a legal requirement yet does not get put on most products. You have to call in to find out if the water is fluoridated and they really don't want to answer that question so they give you a the full round robin treatment. You may speak to no less than 4 people in a span of 3-4 hours

-

Fluoride Regulation

Bottled water is comprehensively regulated by the U.S, Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as a packaged food product and a number of regulations and standards already exist that govern bottled water labeling regarding fluoride.

As a FDA regulated packaged food product, bottled water labels must contain the name and place of business of the bottler, packer or distributor, and virtually all bottled water products provide a telephone number. With this information, consumers may contact the bottled water company directly to obtain information about the product. Bottled water companies must follow fluoride labeling requirements should fluoride be added to the product. In addition, the FDA sets limits on the amount of fluoride in bottled water, whether added or naturally occurring (21C.F.R. §165.110(b)(4)(ii)(A-D)).

-

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) sets limits for fluoride in bottled water, based on several factors, including the source of the water. Bottled water products labeled as de-ionized, purified, demineralized, or distilled have been treated in such a way that they contain no or only trace amounts of fluoride, unless they specifically list fluoride as an added ingredient.

>>8416593
>It is illegal to medicate the public without their consent or knowledge in the USA
And yet it's not illegal to fluoridate water. Really makes you activate those almonds huh...

>You may speak to no less than 4 people in a span of 3-4 hours
Boo-fucking-hoo. Do you expect me to feel sorry for you?

Why can't you just answer this simple question: Why should we not put fluoride in tap-water? It should really be easy for you, yet you refuse to answer it.

>>8416609
The correct question is, "Why are people medicating your water?"

>>8416613
Because there are only benefits to doing so. Now answer the question, fuckface.

>>8416461
I'm assuming that human cells use a functionally identical glyolytic pathway?

>>8416621
>Because there are only benefits to doing so.

Incorrect.

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>>8416621
This is very close to becoming a Grimes thread.

>>8409111
>Mental hygiene
Isn't that brainwashing?

>>8416551
>That doesn't answer the question. No one is forcing anyone to drink tap water, so your rights aren't being violated.
As a western european I'm arguing from the assumption that everyone drinks tap water all the time by default, since our tap water is of equal or better quality than bottled water.
Yeah technically you could buy bottled water instead, but it's less convenient and apparently people aren't even told the water supply is being polluted so then why would they think to take action to avoid ingesting tap water? With this in mind it's safe to say that, de facto, people are forcibly medicated without prior consent.

>>8416593
>It is illegal to own a water distiller where I live.
wut, because of alcohol production or something?

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In brazil we only drink filtered water
we think tap water is filthy and we just use it to clean stuff easily

>>8416728
>As a western european I'm arguing from the assumption that everyone drinks tap water all the time by default, since our tap water is of equal or better quality than bottled water.
Irrelevant.

>Yeah technically you could buy bottled water instead, but it's less convenient and apparently people aren't even told the water supply is being polluted
It's not being polluted, you nutjob.

Why should tap-water not be fluoridated? If you don't answer the question in the next post then this means you have no answer. You lose. Now fuck off.

>>8417316
you sound mad

>>8416657
Glycolysis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycolysis
If fluoride competes for uptake twith 2-phosphoglycerate as a substrate to the enolase enzyme to form phosphoenolpyruvate. Then the last step cannot comeplete leading to pyruvate deficency: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyruvate_kinase_deficiency
Leading to Loss of adenosine triphosphate atp adp, et al.

>>8417830
So that's why everyone is inferior to me! I knew it!

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>medicating public water

LOL WTF!? This isn't real. GB2 >>>/x/ with this tinfoil hat shit.

>>8418170
But anon, it actually happens!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation

>>8416621
>Because there are only benefits to doing so

There's still debate as to weather public water fluoridation has any benefits. Many studies funded by the dental industry prove fluoride can strengthen enamel. But studies by the World Health Organization show that countries that fluoridate public water vs unfluoridated public water countries show no difference in the amount of cavities. On the other hand countries that do fluoridate their water have much greater occurrence of dental fluorosis.

If you don't know what that is, it's basically when you get cavities from too much fluoride.

>>8417830
interesting

what about ketosis?

>>8418340
>But studies by the World Health Organization show that countries that fluoridate public water vs unfluoridated public water countries show no difference in the amount of cavities.
I'd like to see your source for this since I already know cavity rates vary across countries and are dependent on more than just fluoridated water.

>If you don't know what that is, it's basically when you get cavities from too much fluoride.
Fluorosis does not cause cavities. Wherever you are getting your info from is lying.

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>>8418261
>wikipedia
>website that allows anyone to make an article

hurr

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap14.pdf

>Fluoride has both beneficial and detrimental effects on human health. In terms of dental
health, the prevalence of dental caries is inversely related to the concentration of fluoride in
drinking water; while there is a dose-response relationship between the concentration of fluoride
in drinking water and the prevalence of dental fluorosis (1). In terms of general health, in
communities where drinking water and foodstuffs are excessively high in fluoride, skeletal
fluorosis and bone fracture are the most relevant adverse effects. However, there are also other
sources of fluoride. Processes such as desalination and some membrane and anion exchange water
treatment processes will remove virtually all fluoride from water. In terms of using such sources
for drinking water, the implications for public health will strongly depend on local circumstances.
However, the public health requirement is to maximise the beneficial effects of fluoride in
drinking water supplies for caries prevention, whilst minimising the unwanted dental and
potential general health effects.

>The aetiology of dental caries involves the interplay on the tooth surface between certain
oral bacteria and simple sugars (e.g. sucrose) derived from the diet. In the absence of those sugars
in foods and drinks dental caries will not be a public health problem. However where sugar
consumption is high or is increasing, dental caries will be or will become a major public health
problem unless there is appropriate intervention. Removing fluoride from a local drinking water
supply could potentially exacerbate an existing or developing dental public health problem.

>>8418466
The WHO is a compromised source, no more trustworthy than the revolving door that is the FDA. There's a number of social and political reasons for this. Just stop for a moment and consider that they still defend male genital mutilation as a valid prophylaxis. Among other inane claims that have sunk in so deep, and have effects so far reaching, that it's hard to back and out despite anyone with half a brain being able to tell they're decades behind the curve.

Only intelligent thing they did was recently, briefly, classing ELF to upper microwave band radiation, even at very low SARs, as possible carcinogens. Otherwise as far as my life is concerned, they're worthless old world relics that muddy the overall dialogue when confused authority driven types point to them as a credible source. Got news bud, they ain't. You're on your own in life.

>>8417830
What about ketosis?
If fluoride fucks with glycolysis does it also fuck with ketosis?

>>8413123
They should know that well water is often untested and can have mercury, heavy metals and volatile organics

>>8416081
Yeah you could develope cancer at 450yo due to that substance at that concentration.
So vague, isn't it?

>>8416478
Because it retards darwinian effects in human populations. We need to allow nature to take its course more often in the public.

>>8409102
it's a meme. your teeth need the fluoride.

>>8409139
>what is radiation? kill yourself retard

>>8409746
>The blood-brain barrier limits the diffusion of fluoride into the central nervous system, where the fluoride level is only about 20% that of plasma

>You have fluoride in your penis RIGHT NOW
Wake me from this nightmare.