Was nutritional science a mistake?

>>8367917
Maybe we should have thought about the potential consequences of telling people dietary fat is evil.

>>8367925
What's the best way to find the truth? Common sense?

>>8367930
Personally I'm of the opinion that a species' normal diet in the wild, at the very least, is an acceptable diet for that species. You can say that natural != better all you like but natural is certainly sufficient, and that's better than being obviously detrimental.

>>8367917
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

>>8367946

Except everything humanity does is meant to step away from the wild.

Nothing humans do can be considered natural. Except what's natural for a human, but that gets philosophical.

>>8367917
>pH 10
>Consume Freely, Raw is Best
>Spinach
>Cellery
>Cabbage
>Brocolli
E. Coli

>>8368097
>Except everything humanity does is meant to step away from the wild.
Everything we do is meant to improve our lives. It seems a stretch to call 50% obesity rates an improvement.
My point stands though, a diet similar in composition to pre-agrarian humans is at the very least acceptable. Average american diet; clearly unacceptable.

>>8368119
And bleach?

>>8368143

That concept / diet is also being critically examined and debunked.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-paleo-diet-half-baked-how-hunter-gatherer-really-eat/

>>8368161
The title of the blog post you've linked implies you've thoroughly misunderstood my position.

>>8367917
There are fucktons of these such pages on facebook, and they're all ban happy as hell.
So much as pointing out that lemons do not have pH 10 or that microwave irradiation doesn't alter pH (aside possibly from actual photochemical reactions) will get you axed, let alone that physiological pH is very tightly regulated by feedback loops and is essentially unresponsive to diet.

>>8367946
>a species' normal diet in the wild, at the very least, is an acceptable diet for that species
There are degrees of acceptable.
Dying at 30 is acceptable, but the life expectancy brought by modern medicine is clearly better. What we call "good enough" is a value judgement.
>>8368143
>50% obesity rates
People need to eat less

>>8368207
>>a species' normal diet in the wild, at the very least, is an acceptable diet for that species
>There are degrees of acceptable.
>Dying at 30 is acceptable, but the life expectancy brought by modern medicine is clearly better.
Youre quite right, and i didnt say natural is better for this reason. Nor did i touch on our natural hygiene practices or primitive medicine, as modern medicine and hygiene are top-notch.

>What we call "good enough" is a value judgement.
That's true, but many are concerned about an apparent drop in the general health of the public that has been occurring over the past few decades.

>>50% obesity rates
>People need to eat less
Eating less would be congruent with the natural human diet I suppose.

>>8368143
>a diet similar in composition to pre-agrarian humans is at the very least acceptable

Yeah, because you clearly live in the same conditions now and make the same kind of physical effort, right dumbass?

>>8368266
All I'm saying is if you don't know what to feed your pet bear, looking at what wild bears eat won't kill it. Faggot.

>>8368272
You've never brought anti-freeze into the woods, I take it

people are fat and unhealthy because 99% of the population is sedentary, no running for 30 minutes three times a week doesn't help, especially considering our ancestors spent a life time doing hard labor as farmers


its that simple and worrying about whether or not eating a lot of wheat or too much red meat in the shadow of a sedentary lifestyle is inconsequential

>hmmm bleach is alkaline so if i drink lots of that i can eat whatever i want!

>>8368481
>anti-fteeze is part of a bear's natural diet
Are you not proving my point?

Nutritional science is awful and now it's become politicized with the body positivity movement alowing people to believe that they have very little control over how much they weigh.

>>8368481
>Moving the goalposts
Don't ever post on this board again.

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>>8367925
>Maybe we should have thought about the potential consequences of telling people dietary fat is evil.

Americans want a magical diet that will let them eat 5000 calories a day, never exercise, and still let them have a slim, athletic physique.

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>>8367917
>PH 10
>Lemons and limes

>PH 8
>Tomatoes
>PH 4
>Tomato juice

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>>8367917
>it takes 20 parts alkalinity to neutralize 1 part acidity in the body
I've seen some retarded shit in my life but damn

>>8369120

By any chance, do you have a link to this? I'm staggered by that number. I know people eat too much; but nearly twice as much as they should?

I would've thought it was in the 2500-2800 calorie range.

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>>8369120

Oh, apparently a lot of these calories are not actually being consumed... http://www.usda.gov/factbook/chapter2.pdf

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>>8367917
>>8367917
>pH of 10
>lemons and limes

Can anons tell me if a high fat diet is good if I'm underweight? With vegetables and fibre of course.

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>>8369249
holy fuck, the image does say that

>>8370500
Read the sticky

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>>8368143
>nobody can't prove him wrong
So, pseudo paleo-diets are the most accurate model of alimentation?

It works for me, tho.

>>8370500
What do you want?

If you want to build musclemass, stop eating sweets.

Increase your testosterone levels doing weighlifting and decrease your masturbating sessions.

>>8370500
>>/fit/
Don't take anything you hear in /sci/

Wait, if milk is also acidic, why does it upset your stomach if you consume it with something citrus?

>>8370763
nigger read the thread
that pic is bullshit
lemons and limes are apparently basic

>>8370773
fuck

>>8367917
Lemons & limes on the wrong side of the pH scale.

>>8367917
Lack of sleep has a PH of 3

>>8367917
>Equal
what?

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>>8369249
>>8370763
>>8370814
>>8370763
Almost all foods are between 6 and 7.2 unless they are noticeably sour - tomatoes, pickes, fruits, sweet drinks.

>>8370652
>>8369249
>>8371337
>>8370773
>>8370814
The chart (or rather that area of 'nutrition scince') doest list the pH of the food, but the effect the food has on your blood pH. Ive heard from many sources that lemons and limes are acidic, but for some reason alkalize your blood, thus its good for you.

>>8370822
Its the brand name for a sweetener thats aspartame, acesulfame potassium, dextrose and maltodextrin.

>>8370778

you just got meme'd even though OP tried to unmeme you.


How does it feel?

>>8370817
This makes me think that this is a troll image

The Stomach needs a pH of about 3.
If it becomes more alkalized by eating high PH stuff then you can't extract the nutrients out of your food anymore.

>>8368494
>our ancestors spent a life time doing hard labor as farmers

>not having owned slaves

libfags never cease to surpise me

>distilled water
>ph 4

>>8371929
>it actually says that
>it's even in fucking bold
No more

every time someone says that diet can alter biological pH i die a little

your blood pH is incredibly highly regulated and it has to stay in an absolutely critical, narrow range for your to stay alive. if your blood pH was even slightly susceptible to your diet, then you would just drop dead from eating the wrong thing

>>8371531
>Ive heard from many sources that lemons and limes are acidic, but for some reason alkalize your blood, thus its good for you.
it's really shitty reasoning from someone who only took introductory A&P

basically, their reasoning is that since one of the jobs of the pancreas is to partially neutralize stomach contents as they enter the small intestine, the pancreas will have to put out a bunch of extra secretions to cancel out an exceptionally acidic stomach load, and the net effect is that it will overshoot and make things more alkaline than it needs to

it's absolute garbage reasoning because even if all of that were true (and it's not), see >>8371984.

>>8371929
to be fair, it's stupidly easy to alter the pH of distilled water with contaminants. pure water does have pH 7, but it also has absolutely no buffering capacity at all.

>>8368266
Well, how does it differ?
Before exit from Africa a working day consisted of stretching out an arm to pick some reasonably ripe fruit. And that was pretty much it. Gathering food in an area where you can harvest throughout the year is easy.

Life as a hunter outside Africa was harder and agrarian life also involved a lot of work, especially to make a harvest last an entire year.

So these days we are more or less back to antediluvian work load.

>>8371998
>consisted of stretching out an arm to pick some reasonably ripe fruit
what?
how about endurance hunting?
how about hunting in general?
early humans didn't get smart on a fruit based diet

>>8371984
If thats true why dont people die when they inject peroxide (pH of 1-5) into their veins?

>>8372019
>If thats true why dont people die when they inject peroxide (pH of 1-5) into their veins?
did you not read the post?
>your blood pH is incredibly highly regulated
it has chemical buffers built in and is actively managed by the body

Also, some people do totally die with peroxide injections.

>>8372022
buffers only work to keep the original solution at a specific Ph, it doesn't effect other chemicals that you add later.

>>8372047
>buffers only work to keep the original solution at a specific Ph
Yes. Your blood is buffered to stay at a certain pH. If you add a substance to blood that has a different pH, the pH change is resisted by that buffer system as long as the blood's buffer capacity is not exceeded.

>>8372070
>it doesn't effect other chemicals that you add later.

>>8372072
Except it does. The buffer system remains in place. If you add other chemicals, the buffer system resists the effects of those other chemicals.

That's how buffer systems work, anon.

>>8367917
This chart is retardedly incorrect and conceptually juvenile.

>>8372010
Why bother with endurance hunting when you can stretch out your arm for yet another fruit?

Humanity, as far as we know, originated in Olduvai. Endurance hunting came when our ancestors moved into the savannas.That came later and requires a lot more energy. However during the hunt there is neither time to eat nor capacity to carry food. That is why few others than humans can engage in endurance hunting.

>>8371531
So what is it listing the ph of, anon? How exactly does purified water and lack of sleep turn your blood acidic? Why is it the acid end harmful but the alkaline end good?

I'm sorry to have to explain it but these infographics are completely unsourced and unsubstantiated yet memed around like fact. And people will believe anything they are told about nutrition. But more annoyingly, people will preach anything they want about nutrition.

>>8372596
I have no idea, just telling you why the chart shows some things as being acidic or basic that arnt. I know its bullshit.

>>8367917
My grandfather got his Ph.D in nutritional medicine from Berkley. I had never seen someone more obsessed with what they ate. He died at 64 from heart attack, and heart attacks weren't a hereditary issue in my family ever before or ever again. I know it's anecdotal but that was enough for me to scoff at the whole field.

>>8370725
Thanks for your support, anon.

What i want to know are there any resources to find out the truth?
I mean wtf read 2 articles they are exact opposite, everyone has their own inane theories and i cant find any good papers either wtf...

>>8367917

even ignoring the blatant factual errors, the internal logic in this chart is off. The ideal range for your blood is 7.0 but you can eat as much pH 10 food as you want?

also,

>Colas! (Off the chart)
>the chart is arbitrarily defined

>>8368097

BUT we make mistakes

>>8371989
>>8371984
>>8371929

so, why have i been drinking several cups of pure vinegar a day then?

>>8367917
>shittily
>adverbing a meme adjective
fgt pls

>>8368494
Actually running in any amount does help. Quite a bit. Makes you think.

>>8373877
Because someone told you, wrongly, that it was necessary.

>>8367917
I wonder how they explain away the pH of gastric juices, hardly pH 7. Or did the clowns expect us to serve the food a la intraveneuse?

>It takes 20 parts of alkalinity to neutralize 1 part acidity in the body

Wait, what? Is this some magical chemistry i've missed?

>>8367917
It isn't a real science, stop calling it a science.

>>8368119
Rinse them well and soak them in salt water for 10 mins, rinse again.

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>>8367917
>it takes 20 parts of alkalinity to neutralize 1 part acidity in the body

>>8367917
>Neutral pH
> 7.0
> Optimum pH for human blood.

Medfag here. I'm triggered.