Why.

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>>8324745
>But first you must question how it is doing that and why is it doing it in such a common fashion?
Wooooooah you mean the same chemical has the same effect on human beings? Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooah

Here's another question, why are almost all psychedelic users such fucking morons?

>It's also found that we produce large quantities of DMT when we are born, while we sleep and also when we experience death or near-death.
False.

>Why is this -the- most illegal drug in the world?
Nonsense.

>DMT is also produced within the pineal gland, a gland that a lot of products like soda, water and foods directly calcify.
False.

>I am a very rational person and like to look at things objectively and I hope the majority of you do too.
Yet you couldn't be bothered to look up evidence for your claims...

>>8324781
>Wooooooah you mean the same chemical has the same effect on human beings? Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooah

This argument will never be plausible. Having the same effects make sense, but to force you into the same experience like I described others having... How can you justify that at all?

I haven't even experienced DMT before but it's undeniably one of the most interesting molecules that hasn't had any -real- research.

I believe it was only hypothesized that we produce it when we sleep etc... To that I will admit the post is a little phony.

Why would people experience something that can better their lives from this? People are often shown everything about themselves and from that, they improve who they were.

Also yeah, it's very illegal. It'll be at the top of any classification in any developed country, yet is has been SHOWN to have many benefits.

>>8324793
>This argument will never be plausible. Having the same effects make sense, but to force you into the same experience like I described others having... How can you justify that at all?
They don't have the same experience, the hallucinations are not even close to be as similar as you describe. If you actually look at the research that's been done, you'll see there is a large variety of hallucinations, and they definitely don't follow some plotline like you think. The fact that many "tropes" of some hallucinations are similar is not surprising, since we expect psychedelics to produce similar hallucinations. What you are asking to be explained, on the other hand, is just something you made up, or heard of and gullibly believed, just like the pineal gland crap.

>I believe it was only hypothesized that we produce it when we sleep etc... To that I will admit the post is a little phony.
No, it was conjectured to be produced while we sleep by one guy, and then a bunch of acidheads turned this into a meme, and you gullibly swallowed it, because you want to believe it. Most rational, objective people would at least attempt to determine the veracity of claims they read on the internet before talking about them.

>Why would people experience something that can better their lives from this? People are often shown everything about themselves and from that, they improve who they were.
This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. People who believe such hallucinations are significant will claim they are significant and revealed deep truths and changed their lives. In reality, they are still losers who can't tell the difference between reality and elves. It's just your subconscious telling you what you want to hear. Part of the hallucination is the illusion that the hallucination is profound.

>Also yeah, it's very illegal.
No bruh it's THE MOST ILLEGAL drug bruh. Bruh. Bruh. Bruh.

>>8324830
DMT -is- actually produced within the human body. I shouldn't have spouted out that we -do- produce it when we sleep, are born etc... It is within our bodies though, further studies need to be made on this.

>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22371425
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3155724/
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947205/


Regardless if you think it's your subconscious brewing this shit up or not, it -can- and -will- help you in times of need, many, many people will tell you this.

It's schedule 1, class A, "proven to have no medicinal benefits whatsoever", yet there haven't been anywhere near enough studies into the benefits and those who will do it illegally WILL tell you otherwise.

Also well yeah, it's technically the most illegal drug you will find in the world.

>>8324865
>DMT -is- actually produced within the human body. I shouldn't have spouted out that we -do- produce it when we sleep, are born etc... It is within our bodies though, further studies need to be made on this.
In insignificant levels.

>Regardless if you think it's your subconscious brewing this shit up or not, it -can- and -will- help you in times of need, many, many people will tell you this.
Wow, well if a bunch of acidheads agree, it must be true...

>Also well yeah, it's technically the most illegal drug you will find in the world.
What does that even mean? A schedule 1 drug is no more illegal than any other schedule 1 drug. Think before you post. I am glad that you have abandoned most of the nonsense in your original post, but it seems we still have a ways to go.

>>8324888
>In insignificant levels

Nice curiosity you've got there.

>Wow, well if a bunch of acidheads agree, it must be true...
People aren't allowed to report what they got from this? Even if they were never involved in drugs and have only ever experienced this once?

Well, no. Some drugs that are Class A in one country, may be tolerated or legal in another. This is not the case as DMT is at the top in every country. Hence making it the most illegal. Do you even think?

Stop trying to defend your understanding for no reason and simply admit you're ignorant on this topic, just like the rest of the world is.

Be curious.

>>8324902
You're conflating drugs being on Schedule 1 with "the government doesn't want me to have this"

No, in fact the drugs aren't even scheduled in the US by possible harm, damage to society or health, or anything like that. Its arbitrary or (small correlation) designed to rake in profit for drug busts by local police officials. For instance alcohol and tobacco are the most damaging drugs known to be commonly used by humans, and they are legal, while cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin etc are not.

In my opinion we should just legalise drugs in general and let the addicts die off (while providing help to the ones who seem promising and on the path to recovery and without enabling them), but social darwinism is another topic entirely.

>>8324902
>Nice curiosity you've got there.
I'm more curious why psychedelic users on the internet are so dumb.

>People aren't allowed to report what they got from this?
Holy shit you really are missing brain cells aren't you? Where did I say they are not allowed?

>Well, no. Some drugs that are Class A in one country, may be tolerated or legal in another. This is not the case as DMT is at the top in every country. Hence making it the most illegal. Do you even think?
Again, you're simply wrong, and if you bothered to do a simple google search you would see that. It's not in the top in Canada. So again you are caught repeating claims you are only pretending to know are true. Why would a rational, objective person do this?

>Stop trying to defend your understanding for no reason and simply admit you're ignorant on this topic, just like the rest of the world is.
LOL, let's review the several lies and misconceptions about DMT you've given in this thread alone:

1. People who consume large doses of DMT experience an odd sensation, a static noise getting louder and louder and then "death"... Every person to reach this place - I believe upwards of 75mg will always create this experience - will tell you that they feel like one with everything.

2. It's also found that we produce large quantities of DMT when we are born, while we sleep and also when we experience death or near-death.

3. Why is this -the- most illegal drug in the world?... This is not the case as DMT is at the top in every country.

4. DMT is also produced within the pineal gland, a gland that a lot of products like soda, water and foods directly calcify.

Yet you have the balls to claim I'm the one who's ignorant?

>>8324923
You're immediately dismissing opinions because you think they're "acidheads". There is no reason that this molecule SHOULD do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2nbnJzervs

All of these users report the same theme, you will find hundreds more like these.

You will find this compound illegal in any country you enter.

I can't express more that I do not know the truth behind this molecule, I really am just trying to get more people involved in looking into it.

I'm calling you ignorant in the sense that you do not know what this molecule is and why it does what it does. You are collecting this within the whole bag of "drugs" and probably even associating it with incredible destructive drugs.

>>8324941
>You're immediately dismissing opinions because you think they're "acidheads".
No, I'm dismissing your argument because it has no factual basis. Learn how to read.

>All of these users report the same theme, you will find hundreds more like these.
OH MY GOD, THE SAME HALLUCINOGEN CREATES SIMILAR HALLUCINATIONS. FUCK OFF ALREADY.

>You will find this compound illegal in any country you enter.
So what? Just admit you don't know what you're talking about and made up that "it's the most illegal drug in the world".

>I'm calling you ignorant in the sense that you do not know what this molecule is and why it does what it does.
So you are "ignorant" too. What is the point? At least I'm not actively spreading lies about DMT like you, asshat.

>You are collecting this within the whole bag of "drugs" and probably even associating it with incredible destructive drugs.
What a load of bullshit. Stop putting words in my mouth and learn how to read.

>>8324971
So what, the molecule of DMT contains information? It forces some people to have a set experience in terms of a timeline and this is just normal?

Trust me, I get your point, but you have to question why that even is the case.

You are getting way too defensive about this when you don't know much about it. I'm saying that it's incredibly interesting in what it does to a person and that the fact we have been using this for thousand of years is also interesting.

Also, no. It's illegal everywhere, why can't you understand that? Some things are only illegal in certain countries but this is illegal EVERYWHERE. Wanna just read that again instead of saying the same shit over and over?

>>8324980
Illegal in amsterdam?

>>8324986
Illegal.

>>8324980
>So what, the molecule of DMT contains information? It forces some people to have a set experience in terms of a timeline and this is just normal?
You're dense.


>I'm saying that it's incredibly interesting in what it does to a person and that the fact we have been using this for thousand of years is also interesting.
Why is it interesting?


>Also, no. It's illegal everywhere, why can't you understand that? Some things are only illegal in certain countries but this is illegal EVERYWHERE. Wanna just read that again instead of saying the same shit over and over?
Many drugs are illegal everywhere, like meth.

>>8324999
You're calling me dense because you couldn't answer a very, -very-, question? A question that literally hinges your understanding on this topic.

It's interesting because no other substance does what this does. Cultures for thousands of years have been using this in the form of ayahuasca, there are many links within the bible also. "The flower of life" has also been identified to contain large quantities of DMT. People have always been using this to better their lives or learn how to overcome something in life. Regardless, it does help people.

>comparing DMT to meth
Can we just set aside our emotions here and have a decent debate?

Why don't you find DMT interesting, anon?

>>8325019
simple question*

>>8325019
>You're calling me dense because you couldn't answer a very, -very-, question? A question that literally hinges your understanding on this topic.
Which question? The first is too stupid to even bother replying to and the second has already been addressed. You are asking about something you made up, not that actually exists.

>there are many links within the bible also.
False.

>"The flower of life" has also been identified to contain large quantities of DMT.
Nonsense.

>Regardless, it does help people.
I bet you believe in healing crystals as well.

>>8325033
You're saying things are false an nonsense and refusing to answer simple things.

I know I'm not "right", but I find enjoyment questioning things. I'm sorry that you're blind in one eye.

>>8325041
>You're saying things are false an nonsense and refusing to answer simple things.
Because they are false and nonsense. And I don't see the point in answering inane questions besides pointing out how they are inane. Anyway, this is going nowhere. Remember, you claimed to be a rational, objective person. So don't complain when others hold you to that.

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>>8324745

P-P-P-Paging Joe Rogan!
The most illegal drugs in the world are heroin and cocaine. Maybe meth, in some places, for reasons that are self-explanatory.

>entities, breakthrough, self-dribbling basketballs, etc
Many of these effects (sigma-1 receptor agonism) are appreciable with DXM/dextromethorphan too, but nobody thinks cough syrup opens the gateway to a machine-elf spirit world, do they?

>DMT is also produced within the pineal gland, a gland that a lot of products like soda, water and foods directly calcify.
You still haven't cited your source for this claim.
The pineal is a glorified light-sensor, it still has rod/cone structures and works in conjunction with the central chiasmatic nucleus to produce melatonin and coordinate sleep-wake cycles. Even if it did "calcify", that would probably relate to the natural development of mineral "brain sand" with age and not some kind of globalist fluoridation plot to make us malleable debt-slaves.
Why is it common across species? Because these species descend from an ancestor to whom light-dark sensation and circadian waking cycles were beneficial. See attached.

Indoleamines and sigma psychoactives are interesting for sure, and I do think they're worthy of investigation. However, if you want to put /psy/ into /sci/ you'll have to use evidence and facts, not hearsay and wild speculation. If you want to learn more about these compounds, explore 5HT affinity and higher processes like dreaming and memory consolidation, not the metaphysical.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11962759
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/otherendo/pineal.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1693265/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9690142

>>8325056
I have no evidence as it relies on those who describe their experience.

People who take certain drugs will always be in the same state, but not a single person would report that they were placed somewhere entirely different, that it sat them in a new reality and they believed it.

I'm more curious in why we have been using this for so long and the connection in reports.

I falsely said information regarding the pineal gland and the production of DMT within this gland. This is merely a rumor I took to heart because it pieced well.

Regardless, the strangeness of this molecule is something we should be able to answer, not shrouded in legal complications.

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>>8325137
What would happen if you gave a prosopagnosic a heroic dose of DMT?

Psychedelic drug binges have turned me into one of the most enlightened people on the planet

>>8325153
Only one way to find out.

>take DMT
>its a fun experience

>can never tell anyone because they always start spewing shit like OP "bruh did u see the machine elves, the other dimension is REAL they're REAL ALIENS" "bruh the pineal gland science science ENLIGHTENMENT"
>or they call me a junkie

fuck you OP
you're just as bad as prohibitionists
spreading misinformation

>>8325204
Did you read the thread at all? We've been through this.

Psychedelic threads pop up on /sci/ fairly often, yet there's no talk of the manifoldy stuff?
Please try and describe those sweet brain geometries in terms of mathematics. Of course there's no rigour applicable here but that's not an issue, just speak some math for the fun of it.

>>8324745
>C12H16H2

I didn't even bother reading this shit post after seeing you used a shitty pic.

>chemical formula matters

Fuck off to /x/

>>8325206
yeah I know

I just thought maybe another person telling him to shut the fuck up would increase the chance that he actually shuts the fuck up

>>8325782
rude

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Don't mind the uppity freshman, OP. They don't make for good conversation.

It is intriguing that that DMT trips feel real and are clear coherent experiences involving specific entities that each exhibit their own unique behaviour. Potent psychedelic experience are usually just a moment in which you flirt with psychosis or experience oceanic boundlessness. You don't have entities throwing cigs out of your mouth in an attempt to communicate to you to stop smoking or strange geometric creature using pictorial language or telepathy. Strong visual and cognitive distortions caused by drug or mental illness usually involve something along the lines of an evil shadow with tourette syndrome hurling word salad at you one moment and then one random experience after another. Trying to bring back answer about the after life give people the sort of answers that can be found in Tibetan Buddhism and an existence that can described as something much more similar to a video game than simulation where consciousness returns to a cosmic cloud computing network after death.

This all leave me very curious why the trip are so reproducible in different people. You can go into your DMT trips intending to find the being know as "mother ayahuasca" and you will find her eventually. A double-blind randomized prospective study using the model where anesthetic techniques extend the DMT trip would be useful in testing the repeatibility of answers to certain question that are asked of the same entity. Dismissing it all as just hallucinations is a common snobbish attempt at sweeping questions under the rug. Ultimately the problem lies in there being only one notable study on humans approved in the 90s under the eye of the DEA and ethics committees. The moratorium on psychedelic research for decades, due to hysteria, Is only recently starting to be reconsidered.

It's worth discovering what the biological significance is of this endogenously produced drug.

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>>8325204
>spreading misinformation

This misinformation thrives like a weed only because of neglect resulting from the knee-jerk reaction to psychedelic research taking root during the Nixon years and scholarly attitude toward anything with spiritual baggage.

>>8325943
Are you Mr. Hancock?

Exactly. Regardless if you believe there is some truth behind this oddity, there is obviously something odd going on and we don't yet fully understand what it is. Before we even get the chance to look into it properly, it's incredibly illegal.

I do wish to have this experience for myself, I don't like to see this and not fully understand the "impossibles" that occur. Considering humans have been taking in this substance for tens of thousands of years, something which has been shown to have many benefits and little to no evidence of any disadvantages. Does the immediate illegality of this not make it seem too obvious that there's something dodgy going on here? When you also consider the experiences people have...

This faggot ass shit belongs in /x/

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>>8325983

Your post belongs on /b/

>>8326030
This post belongs in 4chan

>>8326030
Your mouth belongs on my DICK

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>>8326037

That made me think.

>>8326043

This didn't.

>>8326055
Faggot

>>8324745
You already know that you're going to get garbage responses. (eg the first post) Why bother to post here at all?

Regardless, concisely I'd say DMT just alters the brain's machinery such signals are processed and routed differently. The common and shared features might have to do with that the brain is composed of a number of very simple, hierarchical, fixed function filtering stages. Especially to do with sensory mixing and visual processing.

Take my Alice and Wonderland Syndrome stuff I frequently had as a child, and my visual snow. A lot of the trippy LSD or DMT-like effects I've experienced very mild versions of while otherwise sober. Migraines and sleep deprivation will also trigger similar things.

Nonetheless it's interesting, and I don't know. I'm apt to take a strictly reductionist, local, and mechanical approach to describing it, but there might well be something grander involved. Don't know.

Drugs have influenced human culture, philosophy, and religion since our earlier days.

>>8326089
I knew it wouldn't go well but it's still worth posting.

The things is with trying to say it's just altering the brains machinery is, is that when we experience anything, new neural pathways are being made, we create new paths as we gather new understandings. When there are large quantities of DMT present in the body, it forces you into an experience, into a place where you are free to explore and interact with.

By arguing that it's just altering the brain, is also arguing that this molecule has an instruction guide of which reality a person will receive.

Another argument people like to make is that people will copy other peoples experiences, however when you watch individual reports of random people, they all go through the same steps and you can some daunting correlation there.

It's worth investigation at the least.

>>8325228
I have got some pretty sweet fractal visuals from acid, 2D and 3D.
I have only taken DMT once and it is a very singular experience, you feel like you are very much cut off from the rest of the world. Personally I only saw kaleidoscope patterns though.
It did not give me any understanding of 4D surfaces or hyperbolic geometry as my Geometry Lecturer implied it did for him. Overall a 7/10 experience because it doesn't last and it smells like shit.

>>8326101
>is that when we experience anything, new neural pathways are being made
Not necessarily. A lot of the brain might well have a very small spectrum of rewiring it'll undergo according to its inputs, or damage.

This generally puts me into an old mindset I tend to use to write stories. Notions of being engineered by another species that came before us, or having hardwired limiters that are occasionally loosened. Perhaps embedded knowledge. I've often felt that there's something else just beyond the peripheries of your awareness, and at most you may only barely run the fingertips of your mind along its surface, but can't ever grasp it. Then it slips away.

It also reminds me of a story about a drug cocktail someone who lived through the 70's happened across once. They suspected one of its constituent parts was PCP, but weren't entirely certain. They were then awake for 3 days, capable of rapid learning and near instantaneous transcription of information and complete recall. Could pick up an instrument, and almost immediately know how to play it. Thought very quickly and clearly, superhuman strength, greatly improved visuospatial processing acuity. Then it wore off and they slept for 24 hours and felt near braindead for arounda week and a half. This is consistent with the formation of olney's lesions.

Lot to be said. Like I said, I don't know. Lot of possibilities.

>>8326111
What was your dosage? I've heard this can be pretty important.

>>8326113
I mean, there are natural compounds that humans have been using for years and then there's shit that rots your brain and gets you addicted to dying.

This is natural and alters your reality to a point where you acknowledge that, that is reality.

It's sad to see people just brush this off into the collection of man-made shit that has ruined the label. Maybe that was done on purpose.

>>8324888
>>8324830
>>8324781
jesus this poster couldn't be any more condescending. absolutely disgusting trait that you were unfortunately born with. Honestly feel sorry for you.

>>8326117
Not sure actually, I just took the biggest draw on the cracky I could.

The primary issue with psychedelics both is, and isn't, the psychedelic nature of the drugs. That is to say, the issue isn't that the drug "allows the user to explore the spirit realm", it's that the drug debilitates the person.

You can't work on a construction site on ketamine. You can't teach a class of children on psilocybin. You can't organise health insurance for a customer on salvinorin A.

Psychedelics have no practical use. Any supposed practical use of the drugs is actually an off target effect, and may be superseded by another drug with more direct effects.

Because its entirely frivolous, there is no demand for psychedelic research and consequently, no funding for it.

If you want to get involved in it, no one is stopping you, but you will have to bankroll it yourself.

>>8326140
Why would you ever do this while trying to do a job? Taking DMT is nothing more than a meditation session almost.

People who have ayahuasca sessions - ingest DMT orally through an ancient brew of plants - take a few hours out of their day to really see themselves and really self-reflect, thus in most cases, making them a better person.

These experiences that people have often seem to be only necessary once. The teaching it can provide seems incredible and enough for a life-long, happy understanding of life.

I don't want you to drop everything and take this on, but at least explore the fascination within this molecule. Properly hear what experts have to say.

>>8326136
It seems that you either dabble in some whatthefuckshitfuckmeupfam hallucinations or you get propelled into another place. It always seems either 1 of the 2. Wouldn't be surprised if dosage was the reason for that.

>>8326140
Way to feed into OP's delusions. "You mean that drug research doesn't focus on drugs that could let us reach the spirit world because they'll stop us working as wage slaves? I knew there was a capitalist conspiracy against the machine elves!!!"

>>8326148
It wasn't a very rigorous trial given it happened in the middle of a music festival while I was already cooked, next time I'll do better senpai.

>>8326150
Sure, that's also a thing... I'm saying there's something odd about this molecule and the reports of experiences users come back with.

I don't care for breaking some sort of reality shade and charging with a revolution, you're making that up to make this seem idiotic when in reality, this shit is real and no one has answers for it.

Is it so wrong to be curious and question what we don't know?

Youre a moron. Why and how would water, soda, and other foods calcify the gayass gland? Please post studies, proof, and proposed mechanism for this because it is just a bunch of stupidity.

Why do morons think soda is bad? Its literally water, sugar, flavoring, and CO2. You can consume these daily from an endless amount of foods - and dont even begin to toss some "but processed food" bullshit. Complete idiot.

>>8326171
Sodium fluoride is attracted to this gland like a magnet. This has been shown to calcify the gland.

You'll find sodium fluoride in sodas, tap water in some countries, toothpaste, foods. Maybe I should have left this part out. It sounds kinda nutty, but feel free to look it up.

>>8326171
Someone's never looked at the ingredient list of any of the major sodas.

>Pineal calcification
The pineal gland is directly exposed to blood and its environment isn't maintained by glia (ie, shielded by the BBB). It has a crystalline structure internally, and a number of compounds can swap places with eg carbonate, and thus become a binding site for calcium. Fluoride compounds are the most well known of which.

>>8326174
>inb4 "but fluoride occurs in groundwater naturally!"
Natural =/= good. You'll find arsenic, cadmium, and uranium in water naturally, along with bacteria that'll kill ya real good. But it's natural amiright?

>>8324745
>Everything alive actually contains the necessary ingredients to synthesize this molecule.

stop trying to pull people into your land of makebelieve
what you just said adds literally nothing to the argument except for empty charlatanry

every living organism contains the necessary ingredients to synthesize every single organic molecule in existence
faggot

>>8326192
I wrote this in a pretty ambiguous way, my bad.

Everything alive contains the very specific ingredients for DMT. Chemical structures of things with life are closely related to DMT. It's another point among many that make this molecule interesting.

>>8326195
>Everything alive contains the very specific ingredients for DMT.
Wrong. DMT is synthesised from tryptophan, an essential amino acid found in food and not produced in the human body.

>Chemical structures of things with life are closely related to DMT.
I think you mean DMT is chemically related to seratonin and melatonin. Both are true, both are synthesised from tryptophan and both are neurotransmitters. So what? Using a material in different ways isn't unique by any stretch of imagination.

>It's another point among many that make this molecule interesting.
It isn't unique and it isn't all that interesting. What other points do you have?

Can someone write a tl;dr of this thread?

>>8326217
Feel free to read the rest of the thread buddy.

>>8326221
I've been following it for a while and most of the points you've raised seem to be debunked. The only solid point I can see is: People should be free to try it for themselves and see if they like it.

>>8326239
>debunked
Casual onlooker here. Remove this word from your vocabulary if you want to be taken seriously by anyone with half a brain.

Thanks in advance, you're contributing to making the world a better place.

>>8326219
niggers and jews

bad news

>>8326239
Eh, as far as you could go about forming a conclusion about what people report, that really just opens up more questions.

This whole topic hasn't been fully answered for and I am bringing it up. People have argued against me but no one has really "debunked" anything.

>>8326242
>debunked
How about contested? That better?

"Doubt has been cast" is the point I was intending to make.

>>8325047
But anon! DMT is, like, some sort of magic molecule that is super illegal everywhere. Open your eyes sheeple, its a gateway to the 4th dimension, where we're talking with the spirits

>>8326247
That sounds fine.
I'm not trying to do some kind of arbitrary "new speak" language policing, if anything it's the opposite and there are hard reasons I'm highlighting it beyond personal distaste.

Pay close attention to the way most people use the word, and their overall mental dispositions. You'll understand.

>>8326246
Well you claimed that "everything alive contains the very specific ingredients for DMT" and I countered by demonstrating that humans don't, in fact, contain the ingredients for DMT and further that the ingredients aren't "very specific" as they also form other neurotransmitters.

>>8326253
>and I countered by demonstrating that humans don't, in fact, contain the ingredients for DMT

Where did you demonstrate that? Look at the links posted earlier which shows we have DMT within our bodies, not just the means to create it.

>>8326255
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan
>It is essential in humans, meaning the body cannot synthesize it and thus it must be obtained from the diet.
Humans do not contain the "very specific ingredients for DMT". They eat the very non-specific ingredients. I never claimed that DMT can't be found in the human body, it can.

>>8326268
I see, yeah actually that's totally right.

I went off course a little when I brought the pineal gland and the production of DMT within living things. I'll admit my ignorance again on this.

The reason we produce it though and the reports that stem from this do raise some questions though. That was the general aim of the thread. Totally went overboard in trying to sell this.

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>>8324745
>DMT is in all humans, all animals and in some plants. Everything alive actually contains the necessary ingredients to synthesize this molecule.

This is actually only a hypothesis. An oft-repeated one but still no concrete proof.

>DMT is also produced within the pineal gland

""

>a gland that a lot of products like soda, water and foods directly calcify

not even true

>They also describe that when they land in this other place, they are instantly greeted with "entities" that always wish to calm them down, make them feel safe, show them different things. Every person to reach this place - I believe upwards of 75mg will always create this experience - will tell you that they feel like one with everything.

Most people act in an idiosyncratic way on cocaine as well. That more than one person reports a similar DMT experience is no more special than the similar experience of cocaine or MDMA.

>A 4D shape that is not describable in 3D

It can be describable in words or in a 3D representation similar to how 3D is drawn in 2D. The reason you can't describe it is because you made it up while tripping.

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DUDE

DRUGS

LMAO

OP if you're serious and not trolling, you should listen to what Alan Watts said about psychedelics: "When you get the message, hang up the phone." Try to pursue spirituality in Eastern religions. I think most of them were created by psychedelics.

>>8326279
Ok. Now we seem to be getting somewhere.

>The reason we produce it though and the reports that stem from this do raise some questions though.
We don't really produce it in any significant levels and the reason for its production has been suggested to be linked to dreams (Callaway 1988, Med Hypotheses) but has been mostly bred out of the evolutionary pool (Gallimore AR 2013, J Sci Explor).

This might make some sense since melatonin is a neurotransmitter often associated with sleep, and as has been mentioned previously, melatonin and DMT stem from the same precursor.

Assuming the "dream" hypothesis of DMT is true, the significance of DMT only extends as far as you believe dreams are significant.

If so, it isn't really a topic for /sci/ although an evolutional biologist might disagree and have some grand theory on the importance of dreaming. I'm a pharmacologist though. Doesn't really sound too interesting to me.

>straight edge fags trying to discuss the most powerful hallucinogenic known to man

this is entertaining

>>8324745
DMT is actually one of the least illegal drugs in the sense that, while schedule 1, some "religious groups" have dispensation.

Furthermore, most LE efforts go towards stopping amphetamines, cocaine and opioids. Drugs that actually kill people. Nobody cares about tryptamines and you can buy the materials to synth DMT or 5 Meo DMT without anyone batting an eye.

I've done ayahuasca and the reason you see shit that's not there is because you're on fucking drugs. Take 500ug of LSD or the safer 1P-LSD and you will have a similar experience.

>>8326335
>safer 1P-LSD
>safer

Source? Genuinely curious.

>>8324793
As someone who has experienced multiple near death experiences and countless dmt trips, I can tell you that the two aren't even remotely similar. When you smoke dmt, you pass out, trip balls, wake up and tell your mates stories about the alternate universes you just visited in your head. When you die, you feel nothing but the suffocating yet liberating sensation of nothingness.

nobody saw this documentary ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtT6Xkk-kzk

>>8326321
>junkie burnout trying to talk about scientific subjects
kek

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SAVE US BASED SHULGIN

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>>8326394
i have a master in neuroscience. unlike you i'm actually interested in how these drugs work

>>8326335
>>8326381
pls answer

>>8326136
That's not how you do it.
Please see "The Machine"

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biofag here

can i throw the notion out there to some of the previous replies in this thread that if you are so concerned about LSD that you need to extensively research and find a safer version of LSD to ingest, i would recommend not taking LSD in the first place.

>>8326429

neuroscience dude freaks out asian kid volume II

>>8326579
>not elaborating on your "1p-LSD is """"safer""""
claim

nigger

>>8324745
You know that all that hippie bullshit you're spouting is the only reason psychedelics are illegal, right?

Before hippies started tripping and going all rah rah fight the powah nobody cared. You fucked it for everyone you dirty cunts.

>>8324745

Near death experiences in brain dead people cannot be proven to be attributed to DMT REEEEE fuck off

>>8326651
As an aside, why are all the dosing methods for DMT unpleasant as fuck? Smoking tastes like shit/is very unpleasant on the lungs, snorting burns like a motherfucker, it tastes like shit, oral makes you vomit, and IV/IM involves being stabbed.

>>8324830
y u made tho

>>8326654
>Smoking tastes like shit/is very unpleasant
DMT isn't supposed to be burned, that's when it starts smelling and tasting like burnt plastic. It's very delicate with the temperature. That's why the simple homemade tool known as "The Machine" is the way to go, used correctly of course. It doesn't take much practice to get it right and it's much smoother.

>>8326719
Well I wish I'd had the good sense to do this instead when I used it.

You say you've never even taken the drug yet you claim that everyone who takes it has a similar experience of being "transported" to another dimension and making contact with machine elves (which is false). A lot of your interest in the drug seems to stem from the fact that it is illegal and you've never taken it.

People have shared experiences because they talk about how they felt on the drug which influences the next person's trip. If you spend a few hours reading erowid reports, your experience of the drug is going to be shaped by what you read there, as ultimately your trip is based purely on your subconscious.

>>8326749
I'm telling you what others report and some information about it. Some of that was wrong, read the thread.

I've expressed that this might not be true but I'd say the whole molecule is still up for debate. I don't believe your hypothesis that one trip report would directly influence another one in such detail. Not when you've seen over 15 reports from people.

There is no true intellectual insight to be gained from just smoking DMT and there are no magical connections between the drug and aliens or extra dimensions because its just a drug that happens to alter our consciousness but the thing straight edge fags dont get is just how unbelievably beyond the experience is. I dont think there is any scientific gain in DMT so i agree with the straight edges in shutting up the hippies that didnt go into it with a clear, realistic mind and came out with a deluded conclusion but dumb hippies and 4th dimension bullshit aside, don't think for a second that the experience is anywhere near the ballpark in a ballpark of being "fucked up" on alcohol or anything along those lines. Although hippies spout bullshit, i feel like too many people write it off as "hurr durr pretty purple elephants and elves dancing woooo duuuude a hyper cube mmaaaannnn " when the actual experience is beyond what you could ever possibly imagine sober. It's just hallucinations but hallucinations greater and more complex than what most people who never tried it give it credit for.

Its just a drug that won't take you to other dimensions or other hippie bullshit but it will basically paint a really really really really (I honestly cant emphasize this enough) pretty picture thats beyond what you imagined. The ONLY profoundness that comes from the hallucinations is the art itself for how god teir it is, for what it is, (which isnt earth changing or anything dont get me wrong) should be on an incredibly high pedestal. This shit shouldn't really be on sci though.

>>8326874
Sure. All of that makes sense. But you're missing the big question of why it even does that. It's been used for thousands of years with blatant connections to ancient Egypt and other ancient human civilizations.

It can't be looked at in the same way most drugs are. It doesn't just give you effects, it gives you a new plane of reality to explore.

Whatever it is, regardless if it's made up form the mind or not, it can give people answers to things and really help them out with their lives. This should in no way be class A or schedule 1. Nor should it be taken recreationally. Psychedelics have an important medical role.

>>8326916
>But you're missing the big question of why it even does that. It's been used for thousands of years with blatant connections to ancient Egypt and other ancient human civilizations.
And again OP reverts to this bullshit... No, there is no evidence DMT was used in Egypt and this is an irrelevancy anyway.

>It can't be looked at in the same way most drugs are. It doesn't just give you effects, it gives you a new plane of reality to explore.
It can be looked at the same as any other hallucinogen and it doesn't give you a new place of reality to explore.

>Whatever it is, regardless if it's made up form the mind or not, it can give people answers to things and really help them out with their lives. This should in no way be class A or schedule 1. Nor should it be taken recreationally. Psychedelics have an important medical role.
No they don't.

>>8326916
I agree it can help out with peoples lives as it did with me and I absolutely agree it shouldn't be schedule 1. I just wanted to get in the thread for a second, throw my hands in the air and say "hey, im not a delusional hippie" and hopefully slightly change the perception of what DMT is like in the eyes of people who write it off as hurr durr delusional garbage. Keep doing what you're doing and i wish you well, psychedelics have too much of a bad taste in many peoples minds due to hippies and garbage media interpretation of what its like.

>>8327007
This is clear evidence that you haven't actually done any real research on this. I'm saying things that have at least some ground, apart from the pineal gland, I've admitted to that.

Nothing but dismissal with no real reason or evidence. I can show you links for ayahuasca and possible DMT use in ancient Egypt and many other ancient civilizations.

Also
>and this is an irrelevancy anyway

You really have to start thinking for yourself and question more, anon. Our history was doing better than us.

>>8327014
This substance won't mess you up and rewire your brain to make you insane. With a high enough dose, you're away for 15 minutes and come back. That and the incredible things people experience is all I know.

If it can help people in great ways and also not be a detriment to their lives...

>>8327007
why are you so sure about everything you say, it looks like you have studied this subject a lot, please share with us your knowledge and conclusion about dmt, hallucinations and life in general

>>8327024
Absolutely

>>8326654

The aliens seek to test your resolve by inhaling what smells and tastes like a Pakistani men and sex dolls burned alive in a gym change room.

>>8326874

See
>>8325943

>>8327021
Yeah the thing is, doing research from faulty sources and then spreading the misinformation around is worse than doing no research at all. And my replies are commensurate with the level of reasoning and citation that your own claims have anyway. Any claim you make without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. If you had any self awareness you would apply your own standards to yourself.

Start thinking for yourself instead of parotting what some blog said, and use the critical thinking part of your brain so that you don't embarrass yourself.

>>8327080
I came to my own conclusion that DMT is shrouded in a lot of mystery. Because it is.

You really wanna explain why it does what it does without saying, "it's a psychedelic"?

You're dismissing a question by denying the question exists when it is in fact very real.

>>8327024
If it won't change your brain then why are the vast majority of people talking about DMT on the internet drooling idiots who think a drug induced hallucination is "another plane of reality"? The question of whether drooling idiots are more likely to take DMT or DMT turns people into drooling idiots is the fundamental question of DMT research.

>>8327089
People seem totally blown away from the experience and most report that it has changed their life for the better. Even just with 1 trip, no more.

There is evidence that DMTs use either through Ayahuasca or extraction can be extremely beneficial in a persons wellbeing and will only come away from the experience with a better sense.

I have only seen people talk enthusiastically about their experience, they all seem to be quite intelligent also. Nice sentence structure and word choice. That's sort of irrelevant but it's still a plus.

It does -not- matter if you think there is something beyond the experience, it's still an experience that leave people in awe and wonder.

>>8327088
The fact that we don't know something does not automatically make it interesting, nor does it justify any retarded hippie interdimensional brainfart you want to believe.

It's a very common psychological trope among those peddling woo or pseudoscience to point to something we don't understand and then attempt to validate their beliefs based on ignorance.

>>8327101
Or maybe I'm pointing out its mystery and giving some background.

If you don't find it interesting, that's fine. Just don't pretend like you know the truth behind it.

>>8327089

Because they're still normalfags at heart. The wise ones that just make it and use it amongst themselves in normally don't come out of the woodwork and advertise their faggotry.

>>8327099
>People seem totally blown away from the experience and most report that it has changed their life for the better. Even just with 1 trip, no more.
Have you actually measured how many our of the total say it changed their life for the better? Or are you just speculating based on self selected anecdotal evidence? This is a rhetorical question by the way. I don't doubt that many people believe such hallucinations are profound and life changing, but you are not actually answering the question of whether it is medically significant. Many people believe healing crystals change their life for the better. So what?

>>8327104
There are mysteries surrounding many things. Good job. Now take it to /x/ where it belongs.

>>8327121
>you are not actually answering the question of whether it is medically significant.

You didn't even ask anything remotely close to medicinal values. Also, you're helping my point, if it really can help some people and it does no harm, why is it so fucking illegal?

>>8327125
Nice curiosity you've got there. Just keep repeating and listening to everything you already know, anon. It's alright. Never try to expand your knowledge, that's bad!

>>8327104

>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/end-the-ban-on-psychoactive-drug-research/

Half the people here are know nothing about the science of history of psychedelic research and don't care. Naturally this makes people shitpost. That's what happens when you get a board full of physics and math spergs.

>>8327129
>You didn't even ask anything remotely close to medicinal values.
Pretending that this is dechipherable English for a second, that's what you did here >>8326916

>>8327130
How exactly are you expanding knowledge by posting bullshit about DMT? Hint: you're not, just reinforcing the stereotype that DMT users are dumb gullible hippies. I'm not preventing DMT from being studied, you people are.

>>8324745
Get the fuck out of sci, you fucking hippie

>>8327171
By trying to understand things that I don't.

I made the thread so we can discuss this, not push anything.

People are just too retarded to understand that they don't know something, so they try to argue against it with, "it's just not like that", "obviously, it's a psychedelic", "pop-sci!!!".

Not gonna take any of those seriously now and just gonna listen to any real truths of what this chemical actually is and why it has this effect.

It's not hard to stick your hand up and say, "I don't actually know why this molecule has the effect on the brain, and the similar reports are kinda odd". That's where the knowledge barrier is right now. Stop acting like you're above it.

>>8327185
Did I say I've ever even tried a single drug? I'm opening up this question.

You're just making the thread last longer pal.

>>8327168
You didn't even ask of* anything close to medicinal values.

What are you even talking about?

>>8327201
I don't see you trying to understand anything. You are attempting to make DMT seen more important than it actually is. But you have not figured out a single thing about it, nor will you. You are looking for a certain answer you already believe in.

>>8327214
Yeah the question still makes no sense buddy. I was responding to your claim that DMT has a medical role.

>>8327264
Sure, you could say that. I'm being somewhat biased here because I think there is something more to this, simply because of how little we know and what I've learned.

If someone could break down why what happens, happens, that'd be great. Please, someone, burst my bubble.

>>8326874
>There is no true intellectual insight to be gained from just smoking DMT
Who are you to say that in such a generalizing manner? Have you personally met every single DMT smoker and interviewed them?

>>8324941
>I'm calling you ignorant in the sense that you do not know what this molecule is and why it does what it does. You are collecting this within the whole bag of "drugs" and probably even associating it with incredible destructive drugs.

"i'm going to ignore actual arguments and argue points i've strawmanned in advance so i can seem like i'm winning something"

>>8325019
Theres a lot of drugs that have been used for thousands of years and linked back to different kinds of religions, magic mushrooms and weed have been theorised to have played a big part in many different religions. DMT is found everywhere, all kinds of different plants all around the world, so the fact that one flower mentioned in the bible contained dmt is not that interesting

a lot of hallucinogens produce the same effects, like with lsd you know you're gonna get tracers and weird geometric shapes overlapping everything, phenomenons like the K hole with ketamine are nothing new or exclusive to dmt

a lot of drugs can give you closed eye visuals of completely new places it high enough doses

the first time i did shrooms whenever i closed my eyes i would see myself shooting through space, closed eye visuals of completely new environments are pretty standard for high doses of psychedelics

>>8327975
>>8327956
I totally get that, people will have the same physical effects and may be forced into certain emotional states, like paranoia or extreme happiness. But when it puts people into a dream-like state in some alien like world where they have a similar experience with the same events - more of a derived personal experience.

I just want an answer for that and why it's so illegal.

>>8327995
>why it's so illegal

because most people are not ready for these types of experiences

imagine if acid were legal and you have soccer moms running around tripping balls. it'll be a disaster. it'll be made illegal again within 6 months.

>>8328004
Considering the benefits you can get from this, very visible warning signs and restrictions could be put in place. Totally regulated, even take the necessary steps to ensure it's used properly.

>>8327995
The reason it's illegal isn't because of some mad conspiracy theory where the government wants to stop people from discovering "the truth"

it's because if we legalise one psychedelic, we wouldn't have any reason to stop at that one. If we legalise LSD then people are going to want mushrooms legalised and then mdma, dmt and so on. That would have massive implications on society in a lot of different ways, we'd see a spike in violent crime as drug dealing wouldn't be as profitable, and the kinds of people selling drugs aren't going to just pop a suit on and get a job when the shit they're selling becomes legal, they're just gonna look for different ways to make money illegally.

>>8328029
It and certain other things could be allowed for medical purposes. Not selling it from shops where everyone can get it.

It's great for conditions like PTSD. Helping you through any past traumas seems to be a big feature of using DMT, maybe it's done better through Ayahuasca though.

>>8328029
gang bangers aren't the ones selling DMT and shrooms I guarantee you.

>>8328045
I dunno where you heard that but that's completely false.

The only psychedelic that has shown any kind of promise in treating PTSD has been MDMA. The way traditional psychedelics (LSD, DMT, Shrooms) work psychologically is they will amplify your emotions massively, whereas MDMA will always sorta force you into a good mood and make you feel good, so they'll use that to change the emotions associated with the traumatic memory. Using something like DMT in that situation would be the worst thing you could do.

>>8328029
I believe there's a strong difference between harmless psychedelics like LSD, psilocybin, and DMT versus MDMA, PCP, meth, and heroin, which have proven detrimental health effects.

And I think you're exactly wrong on the "spike in violent crime." You can look at places like Chicago (and now the whole state of Illinois) which have had reductions in crime rate since the decriminalization of marijuana, or places like Portugal which has decriminalized everything and also found that crime, addiction rates, and even usage rates have all gone down.

>>8328061
Many people use "Ayahuasca ceremonies" to actually help with PTSD or get over some trauma. It even seems to help people be a better person.

People tend to experience some sort of maternal entity that shows them everything about themselves, consequences, just how you need to improve. A lot of people get really scared in this and they can get past their issues.

>>8328071
They also have to fly to the Amazon though to do this, it's the easiest way to get this almost.

Apart from the darkweb.

>>8324781
I actually hate autists

>>8328071
http://www.maps.org/

read through this because you're just making shit up now, DMT does not help with past trauma at all. It may help with certain forms of therapy relating to emotional problems and depression, but not trauma. Even in the areas it could possibly help, LSD has proved to be wayyyy more effective than dmt in that area.

>>8328064
What I'm saying is that you can't just look at if the drug is safe or not when you talk about legalisation, you have to look at it on a bigger scale and how it may impact different areas and cause different rippling effects

>>8328009
Weed is as far as legalization will ever go, because all that does is lower productivity and lower IQ, which is beneficial for the elites.

Mind expanding psychedelics? You bet your ass this will be illegal your entire lifetime.

>>8326321
yeah pretty much
I'm not even a druggie but this is entertaining

Psychedelics aren't even useful. Hippies are lying

>>8328110
shill

>>8328119
>>8328088
>The drugs totally didn't make me a paranoid schizo guys! I swear I was this insane before!

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>>8328088
>Mind expanding psychedelics?
Your mind expanded so much it popped.

How come /sci/ is anti-science? This thread is proof of this.

There's just a bunch of pozzed out college students who close their eyes and covered their ears and scream like banshees when they are faced with a question that breaches their current worldview.

DMT is in every living thing and it is a mind altering substance.

It needs to be investigated.

>>8328086
Even looking at it with this scope, legalization is absolutely retarded. The drug war is a failure.

>>8326140
>you cant make money/make someone a profit on psychedelics

This board isnt for people who hate learning. Pls go.

>>8327273
Everyone you've spoken to in this thread has burst your bubble but you stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to listen to them.

>>8328496

the anon this poster is replying to is incorrect.

we used to get whole sheets of acid from a canadian research body for free in giant birthday cards. all we had to do was let them know what we thought.

some are still pursuing knowledge for knowledge

>>8328642
They've said the reason that people experience eerily similar experiences is because they've heard other people talk about it and wanted the same.

Considering DMT was given to an outside tribe that had no connection to the internet and also experiences a similar scenario, I very much doubt this is the case.

People have also said that this will give you this experience because it's a psychedelic and any of them will. Still doesn't explain the same experiences, is this molecule fitted with a trip guide?

No way has this been answered.

>>8329153
You are a special type of dense retard

1. Your examples are anecdotal bullshit that do not warrant serious consideration

2. Even if we assumed these examples to exist, the burden is first on you (or any research group) to show that the pattern you are implying is there. This is the primary difference between you and the posters replying, you are trying to justify an explanation you already believe while others are approaching skeptically as everyone should. You even tried to avoid letting on your bias by directly claiming you are an objective person.

3. Every time sonebody calls you out you retreat into this shell of "but we need to be curious!!!" Being curious means being open to questions, not being open to accepting answers with 0 actual evidence

>>8329153
>Still doesn't explain the same experiences, is this molecule fitted with a trip guide?
Dear Jesus God, spend half an hour on psychonautwiki or take some actual drugs at the very least. Autonomous entities are a far more common experience than you seem to realize.
>what is an entheogen
And DMT trips are more varied too.

>>8326124
Be wary of the appeal to nature fallacy.

>>8329388
>Autonomous entities are a far more common experience than you seem to realize

Why are you stopping at that understanding and not asking why you're experiencing this?

Anyone can conclude that it can change or flip your reality, but why?

>>8329291
The OP is too stupid to realize this. This shit belongs on >>>x.

>>8329291
You're taking in what you want here to allow yourself to have some sort of certain conclusion.

I'll remind the thread that I really don't care what is causing the reports people come back with, I am just interested in the unanswered questions about DMT. We have dismissed a few already, or rather tossed aside speculation based on one mans "findings".

I am pushing on the unanswered questions, not pushing on the reason, although you might notice a bias side towards that conclusion because I think it has some merit. I'm like 61-39 here. The latter being that DMT is absolutely nothing.

General pareidolia doesn't explain the fairly intricate archetypal characteristics of the observed "entities".
Why would a recursive algorithm for detection of certain types of distinctly elven figures be hardwired into the brain such that it activates upon certain action on the neurotransmitter systems? Seems arbitrary and pointless, like some sort of joke even. But it's there.

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>>8329696
Oh apparently it's because people saw this and told their friends so they just wanted to see it too and did.

The random tribes that have no connection to civilization just saw some reactions on Twitter.

>>8329702
I think this is a rather plausible explanation. I consider myself extensively experienced with psychedelics, but I bought all of them over the internet and have more-or-less completely isolated myself from anyone else into drugs and avoid reading much of anything that isn't scientific literature since people are generally vague fuck-ups at expressing their subjective experiences.

Reading trip reports post-hoc, I've found that my experiences on many drugs differ rather dramatically from what most report. Reading some (usually incredibly detailed) reports has had the effect in my personal trips of highlighting particular effects described (possibly making them appear psycho-somatically) and exaggerating them. I don't think it's too out of the question that prior expectations and subsequent confirmation bias can significantly alter the course of a trip. If you tell someone "Prepare for X" and then put them into the most profound suggestible-yet-lucid state possible, don't be surprised if they actually experience X.

>>8329743
Sure, that makes total sense, but there seems to be a chronological order to experiences with high doses.

Visuals, noise getting louder and louder, sucked into tunnel, arrive in other dimension.

That seems to be the general trend of most trip reports I listen to or watch.

People who have not been exposed to the internet culture get have the same experience also. It pops up the same around the world.

Why does DMT do this? That's the thing that goes unanswered for

>>8329860
I'm interested to see if the phenomenon you describe would happen to a random volunteer of the street with no prior knowledge of DMT whatsoever.

>>8330605
I'm saying that already happened

>>8326381
it's not safer, unless you count getting arrested among the hazards of taking drugs, in which case it is since I'm fairly sure it's still legal in many places (though it was recently covered by a blanket ban on psychoactives in the uk).
LSD isn't that dangerous anyway, I honestly think weed would do more damage