Engineers are not true scientists.

>>8296257

Yes they are.

Why not?

>>8296264
They don't produce any knowledge, they dont construct any theories, they don't seek to find laws in nature.
They merely apply the knowledge generated by true scientists. Which is something that any common man do today; the only difference is engineers are highly specialized in doing that.

In this sense engineers are more similar to artisans than to scientists.

who cares lmao
>scientists
>no STEM versions of 'the idea guy'

>>8296257
I agree. Engineers are literally tradesmen that took some undergrad math and physics courses.

If dubs engineers are all faggots

>>8296485
What about research engineers?

>>8296520
engineers that are playing scientist

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>tfw everyone in the thread is a NEAT.

INB4 300k starting Maths Major

That is why they are called engineers? In reality, you need both to create something useful to society. Scientists to lay the groundwork and engineers to implement it to practice.

Nothing wrong with engineers. They're trained to implement technology that scientists discover. They're not "brainlets" they're just focused on making something industrially viable.

Also they're still better than medfags.

>>8296257
...and green isn't a flavor, what's your point?

Engineers apply science to the real world, rather than to the land of imagination.

Engineers have a scientific education, but we're not scientists. Usually. They can go into research though and work as scientists.

>>8296257
By definition they aren't scientists. In fact they have their very own name which we call them: engineer.

You know what else is not a scientist?

A desk lamp.

Im an engineer because I dont want to be a scientist, but I love physics and chemistry.

>>8296260
You are wrong and you know it.

>>8296257
I am engineer and I agree with this. Why even be a scientist if you don't have a genius level IQ? It's a waste of time. It's better just to make money and be a cog in the machine, if you're a sub-genius like me. (which you probably are)

You won't change anything. Research won't be fun.

>>8296885
This. How many "real scientists" spend their lives at the bottom of the academic crab bucket doing glorified data entry?

>>8296885
>Why even be a scientist if you don't have a genius level IQ?
>genius level IQ?
>IQ
No. That's not a measure of intelligence, ability to do work, or skill as a researcher.
>You won't change anything. Research won't be fun.
Depends on if you go into industry, a national lab, or academia. Most industry research is funded because the people funding it see a direct correlation from your work to their products. National labs will take the best and brightest scientists available and have them work toward a very specific project. Academia can be a little more wishy-washy, but the research may or may not necessarily have applications, but by and large it either gets applied to or cited by the research done in the other two groups. Although these may or may not change things, that doesn't mean the research isn't fun or interesting.

>>8296257
This is some shitty bait.

>>8296485
99.9% of scientists don't produce any knowledge either

>>8296590
This

>>8296257
>>8296485
All these retards itt.

>They don't produce any knowledge, they don't construct any theories,
You're most likely an undergrad full of shit. Your tone gives it away.
There are thousands of engineering books produced by engineers. They're apparently full blank books of 1200 pages according to you.

In R&D labs many engineers work as engineers/physicists alongside (applied) physicists for example.
You know there are other science stuff to do than black holes, gravity waves, other planets with life, stars, some muhh deep thinking about relativity. That's mostly popsci stuff and that's only a small part of what a scientist can do.

How about we talk about real shit like semiconductors? Every year a bunch of ee msc guys go and apply for their phd at the applied physics department. (Some topic are available in both physics/ee phd programs too). Vice-versa is also true for more theoretical topics. Just look at the bio of people who write books.

Why do you want to call engineers scientists anyway (unless of course they work as scientists)? Lot of physicists aren't engineers either; I have seen numerous physicists who couldn't do engineering.

An engineering degree or a science degree is a degree. Most people with real knowledge easily have enough knowledge for 2-3 different degrees. Your degree won't be the thing which limits you, especially now when everything is interdisciplinary/multidisciplinary. It will be your stupidity. You seem to be spout this true scientist shit like you're an angry kid...

Btw anyone saying engineers aren't creative or don't have ideas basically has no idea what he's talking about either. Look at state of the art designs and industrial research.

>>8296257
>Engineers are not true scientists.
>shows picture of a television actor

>muh hard scientist master race
>lives on $28k/ yr. stipend
>have to teach on side of pouring time into research

>Engineer
>6 figure salary
>takes what scientist does and applies it

If scientists are so smart, why do they let themselves get cucked? Why don't they all just strike and say "we aren't doing any more science until we are paid as much as engineers?'

>>8296257
>have an engineering degree
>work as a physicist
you're a sperg with firm definitions of terms you know nothing about.

>>8297292
This board is full of undergrad idiots who went into physics thinking muh scientist, muh smart, muh physics, etc.

>>8297336
do people who study science make you angry? are you an engineer? poor guy. it's going to be ok, you can learn more later on and hopefully work in physics eventually.

>>8297347
not that guy, but what makes me angry is idiots like you who think there are dividing lines between who can/can't and does/doesn't "do science" as I'd assume you'd say. Way more researchers than you'd think are engineers, not physicists.
like i said, i work as a physicist but graduated as an engineer. does that mean im not really a physicist

>>8297359
congratulations, you managed to salvage your life by learning physics later on. you did it!

>>8297363
>learning physics later on
i got the job right after graduation. and i learned far more about phys in engr that your dumb middle school ass ever did

>>8297371
>i learned far more about phys in engr
post course listings, hard to believe unless you took a shitload of electives in physics, in which case, duh

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>>8297375
>you can only learn physics in physics courses
ayy lmao
this isn't exactly what I took, and I switched from ME so I got to take some extra grad courses because I stayed longer than 4 years but you get the gist

>>8297391
>someone taking nuclear engineering + grad-level courses at purdue knows about nuclear physics
really makes you think.....

>>8297347
>do people who study science make you angry? are you an engineer? poor guy. it's going to be ok, you can learn more later on and hopefully work in physics eventually.

What makes you think I would like to work in physics?
I love making things which works, there are plenty of challenges in design, engineering R&D, etc.
My work might easily require me to work with more physics than your average engineer, but no one said I want to strictly do physics research. Do you have no passion? Is your career dictated by some popsci Star Trek bullshit? This seems to be the case judging by your meme/bait tier post.

You're saying somehow physics is superior when it's not. There are engineering problems/designs which would cause you to cry. It must be good to be a glorious physicist when you know nothing about implementing your knowledge in practice, the challenges imposed by making something real instead of only taking theoretical models.

You don't evens study complex design, because you don't need to and a lot of physicists are extremely shit at engineering. I'm not talking about connecting a sensor sometime or making an active filter for your shitty circuit, I'm talking about real engineering. Start working where interdisciplinary knowledge is needed. If you think there are no challenges in engineering or you don't need to know shit then you're deluded as fuck.

Don't misunderstand me I don't have a problem with physicists, but you don't really know what you're talking about.

(PS: Good luck with your eventual phd where you will realize that you will be labrat for the rest of your life, because if you talk like that you're most likely an arrogant little shit who knows nothing and thinks that physics is somehow prestigious. Knowledge is prestigious, not degrees. Only stupid shitheads care about degrees and ranks instead of knowledge. No one will care about your true scientist degree either and make better bait next time.)

>>8297425
joke's on you, i'm actually a mathematician
I just think physicsts are slightly less pleb-tier than engineers
stay buttmad

>there are plenty of challenges in design, engineering R&D, etc.
>challenges in engineering R&D
>challenged in R&D
fucking lmao

>>8297433
So you just posted this to show off how stupid you are. Got you. It must be shit to be an undergrad mathfag.

Maybe go out into the real world. Unless your arrogant ass stays in academia, you will be fired by afternoon if you say something like this at work, especially when you get into a team of various background doing various stuff working together.

>>8297443
I'm obviously staying in academia, where I can speak my mind freely and make fun of brainlets like you. Enjoy prison lmao.

>>8297466
holy fuck you're naive as shit
>thinks he wont be his PI's bitch and get stuck with some boring as fuck research project
oh wait he's a mathfag, so no matter what hes stuck with boring useless shit
enjoy not mattering to the world

>>8297443
>Enjoy prison lmao.
What?

holy fuck the retards in this thread.

heres how the "discovery" cycle actually works.

>engineers in industry find some phenomena by trial and error or educated guesswork
>send the data to a scientist at a research institution with a funding bundle and have them create rigorous definitions/relationships
>send this back to industry as a research paper

engineers were building working steam engines long before scientists had laid the groundwork for our current understanding of thermodynamics.

same for electricity.

engineers do most of the discovering. scientists just create definitions and structured models.

>>8297466
>where I can speak my mind freely
LOL

where the fuck do you think your funding originates from?

industry my man, and engineers are industry. never forget you work for us, not the other way around.

One gets money
The other loves knowledge
Both point out that fact to feel superior to the other

One is engineer, the other scientist.

>>8297688
muh false dichotomy

>>8297534
just keep the $$$ coming

>>8297525
maybe it worked like that in the 1800s, grandpa

physics is far beyond what's applicable

Not scientists... Is this even a question?

>>8297688
Getting money and loving knowledge isn't exclusive.
You can't really build anything more than babby tier shit without knowledge.
It's just that certain things pay more for both scientists and engineers.

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Having a bachelor's of science. Makes you a scientist.

Engineers are as much scientists as doctors or therapy psychologists. They are only considered greater because the science their work is based on is greater.
Engineers>doctors>therapy psychologists
Because:
Maths/Physics> MedBio> Psychology

>>8296257
So?

Good luck executing your theory in a real world application

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>>8296257
Hey science and physosophy nerdfags are you done with your "theories" and equations tedious research so that I can actully APPLY them?

Hurry up dorks! I actully have things to make and complete the cycle of technology and do something worthwhile with my time.

Make far more than you will ever make in a fraction of the education. I make products, patent them, and sell them making a FORTUNE just for fun.

Always pondering, never creating. Hmmmm, maybe if you had the creativity and ambition to actully do something unique (like I have) you might end up being a somebody.

Keep counting thoes valiance electrons or whatever you fags do. Maybe I'll let you look at one of my cars.

LATER LOSERS!

>>8296257
True scientists? Engineering isnt science whatsoever..

Why do physics/math fags on /sci/ have eternal penis envy of engineers?

Serious question.

>>8298258
They are them,


But better.

>>8296257
Engineer here. Of we aren't.

>>8298800
Top kek. They wish.

>>8296257
I, as a computer scientist, fully agree with you!

>>8296485
This. No better explanation than this one!

>>8296572
Haha. This was a joke, wasn't it?

>>8299116
>Half of physics was invented by engineers when they needed to get something done or saw some phenomenon
>Best explanation is from some raging undergrad subhuman /sci/ nerd

Ok. Seems legit.

inb4 I fell for the bait.

>>8296257
Engineers > Scientists

The world has always been like this.

>>8296257
Scientists are essentially reverse engineers.

>>8298147
>>8297688

>>8297688
>>8299250

I went into engineering because I love knowledge and building/designing cool stuff. Many other did for this reason and many other for other reasons.

You /sci/ people are stupid. All you can do is think in memes.

>>8296257

This board is such shit now. No real discussion on interesting topics, just thread after thread of people putting other people down to feel superior.

Every other thread is scientists>engineers, and the remainder is just engineers>scientists. You're all a bunch of uninteresting faggots.

>>8297391
>doesn't take Circuits 1 until senior year

>>8300369
What would you hold off on taking to get circuits in earlier? Not much room to fit it in without moving something far more important. I took it during the summer after my soph year tho

>>8296587
Underrated

>>8296257
engineering is a trade, it shouldn't even be taught in universities

>>8296485
>knowledge
>theories
>laws in nature
there is more to science, pleb

>>8300369
>Fifth semester
>ODEs
That's like second semester, m8.

>>8300534
Nope, so you don't know what engineering is.

>>8296257
The irony
>Bill Nye
>Degree in Mechanical Engineering

This is why the average undergrad physics student is mad at engineers (especially real engineers) the engineers beat him in everything.

They find interesting problems for scientists and mathematicians to work on.
FEM was pioneered by engineers for example and later on given a rigourous mathematical foundation.

>>8301305
This. Holy shit.

I'm in my third semester of styding ME and I fucking hate it so much should I just quit or what

>>8301869
>third semester
You should quit STEM, because the classes you're taking now are classes all STEM students take.

>>8301305
>Mechanical Engineering
>Real Engineering

pick 1

>>8301869
First of all, why did you choose ME?

>>8301869
yes. fuck off, we're full.

>>8296257
That's because we are innovators and we know how to profit from the fruits of our labor.

Engineers are not true scientists - TOP KEK 2016

>>8297287
>$28k/ yr. Stipend
Suuuuuuuuure

>>8297183
>autistic math and physics undergrads btfo

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its that time of year again!

Neither are mathematicians.

>>8299313
Don't forget the "my major is better than yours!" or "my university is better than yours!" threads.
I've also found out that the same threads are also very, very USA-centered.

>>8297245
Rare quality post.

>>8296689

Actually he is right.

>>8305689

Mathematicians are inferior to physicists.

>>8305807
>Mathematicians are inferior to physicists.
Only to mathematical physicists. Otherways we're talking about moneys.