Question

>>8284575
>Implying they can't be both.

>>8284575
For ex. in a video-interview with John Conway, he said if there is one question he'd like to have answered until he dies, then it's why the monster group even exists. Which means at least partially they're discoveries. But to discover something you first need to invent the proper tools to get there.

>>8284578
Actually OR as logical operator allows both, your argument is invalid.

>>8284726
But that's wrong retard, English isn't a formal language, "or" is always exclusive in English.

>>8284737
>"or" is always exclusive in English.
Wrong, kid.

discoveries, they were already in the universe, all a mathbro can do is make then understandable to human mind

>>8284749
I take it English isn't your first language, that's fine everyone learning a new language is a continuing process. Needless to say "or" is always exclusive in English.

>>8284753
>they were already in the universe
where?

>>8284753
Assuming as little as possible by Occam's Razor, one has to say that mathematics happens only in the human mind. How could there be mathematics in the universe without a mind to understand it?

>>8284575
the truth value of statements is proven, or discovered if you will.

the way to write it down is invented

>>8284840
truth value wrt what model?

>>8284827
>If a tree falls in the forest with Noone around does it make a sound?
Circular logic, no?
I don't agree with that analogy. Is that not like saying nothing exists unless it is seen, heard, eexperienced, etc?
Sounds more philosophy than science

To initial question, I answer, discovered

>>8284949
>Sounds more like philosophy
The question OP posed is an inherently philosophical one, it breaks down to Platonism vs Intuitionism.

The analogy with a tree, being an obviously physical object, is weak, yeah. It doesn't apply to metaphysical objects such as theorems and logical inference rules.

There is nothing mathematical about reality in itself. No numbers, lines or other abstractions exist. Humans are capable of abstracting in a useful and marvelous way so that this eerie correspondence between the laws of nature in physics and completely abstract mathematical concepts comes into existence. This is the single greatest mystery of the world to me and I'd give a lot to see it solved.

>>8284972
OK my analogy is improper
I still can't really wrap my head around saying that math wouldn't be without someone to ddiscover/utilize it.
I guess then you could compare mathematics to language? Without someone knowing/speaking it, it doesn't exist?

>>8284786

Dictating the laws of the Universe.

>>8284840

OP here, I like this answer the best.

>>8284980
>>8284972

What he's saying is that is just letters on paper. An abstraction of the universes workings.

Technically, the literal real math is the universe in its natural state.

>>8284575

You reinvent more general ways of looking at intuitive ideas and then you use the definitions of the reinventions to infer things that must be true about them.

>>8284754
no
youre just a retarded american

>>8284575
inventions are just discoveries of applied physics

>>8284840

I was about to come in here and write this