What is it about math that drives people away? They take one

Symbolic thinking for mathematics develops habitually.

Most people find it uninteresting and useless. Like if someone were to show you there spoon collection. That combined with the pretentious "being good at math means your smart" meme means they would rather not try, than try and fail.

because it's completely useless by itself and thus unlearnable without first knowing 'what it can do'

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>>8191774
Easy. It takes effort to understand, and thought to appreciate. Moreover it doesn't appeal to our base senses.

Because majoring in math gets you a useless degree no?

Proofs

>>8191774
they probably hated it as teens when they were in school, so they only associate boredom and other bad feels with it.
also if it's presented like: "look here you dummy, you know math? you smart? huh? probably not, right? ha ha ha", because they literally have no contact points with math after school then they obviously won't bother

>>8191865
Oh this so much.
Not everyone can be a teacher but this is not a perfect world so kids are left wondering why the fuck are they even studying this for.

>>8191774
log(x) + 2log(y) - 9log(z)

>>8193022
Log is usually meant as base 10.
The problem was in base e

>>8193024
some people use log to mean ln, it's really annoying

>>8191774
Literally school. Sadly the only experience most people have with math is torturing themselves jumbling a bunch of symbols around for seemingly no purpose, and justifiably choose to ignore anything related to it.

>>8193053
I agree with this. Mathematics needs to be introduced when kids are young and to be presented as a fun and curious game and not like a "serious stuff" useful tool.

>>8193022
wrong
it's log(x) + 2log(|y|) - 9log(z)

>>8193076
Well it doesn't say anything about the domain at all so it might as well be some complex logarithm or matrix logarithm or some super complicated group.

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>>8193034
i personally think writing log for base 10 is weird though

>>8193080
touché

>>8191774
For 7 years after school I shunned away from math, because at some point during high school I lost touch with the subject completely and just got dragged along, never showing any interest or real understanding apart from memorizing how things are supposed to be done without getting any deeper understanding of the subject.

After getting a degree in a completely non math field and working a little while I got back into math through programming on my own and enjoy it immensely.

The thing about math that drives people away foremost is not understanding the language, the symbols, how things are written in general.

You might as well sit them down in front of a foreign language book they don't understand a word of and then ask them if they enjoyed it afterwards. I only started to enjoy math myself once I actually started understanding what shit is supposed to show and express.

>>8193024
In a lot of programming languages "log" is the function for natural log (since it is way more common in science applications) and "log10" is base-10 log.

>>8191881
Take your pedophile cartoons back to >>>/a/.

[eqn]
\begin{aligned}
\ln{\frac{xy^2}{z^9}} &= \ln xy^2 - \ln z^9 \\
&= \ln{x} + \ln{y^2} - \ln{z^9} \\
&= \ln{x} + 2\ln{y} - 9\ln{z}
\end{aligned}
[/eqn]

>>8193084

This. I was a Math Major for a year and a half in undergraduate, I got to the proof-writing class and the professor was such an asshole I ended up changing my major. "Trivial" is what he would say after every question, or "this class is so trivial, I did this when I was eight years old." That sort of turned me off from math.

I'm in medical school now and I got a copy of "How to Prove It" and I understand the notations and symbols. It's much more enjoyable this way for me, a hobby to do before bed.

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>>8191774
You should be able to solve this.

>>8193034
I don't know anyone who doesn't use log for natural log. US fag here. Been at 3 unis.

>>8194741
I know this isn't serious, but for those interested, check out Turaev's monograph 2010) on the subject. Extremely readable and pedagogical imo. I don't know this subject at all though, I have mostly just read parts of the book and more expository papers on tqft for fun/widening knowledge. would post I'm replying to refer any other reference worth looking into on hqft (besides those on nlab).

>>8191774
I think it's hard for people who are good at math to understand what it's like to not get it. Laziness is part of the equation, but as other people said, trying to follow along when you don't have a good base is like trying to read an alien language. Smarter kids can learn from even a bad teacher, but for some it's not worth the effort, and they reject the subject as a whole.

>>8194767
In France it's ln in all hishchoools/uni. Log is reserved for other log (base 10 and 2 usually)

>>8194802


I was on the side of the absolute retards in math not too long ago. What I found out is that I lacked absolute basics and therefore got extremely upset with not understanding the operations used in further proofs, which just widened the rift and so on.
To avoid frustrating people who are really disoriented in abstract topics you have to chew through every basic thing.

I remember trying to teach my father who had extremely basic education how to count with rationals. He flipped his shit 30 minufes in.

>>8193076
>>8193080
Jesus christ you got fucking nerded on brainlet

>>8193814
The first day of every proof based class ive had with a certain professor, she hands everyone there a copy of a paper she wrote called "The Language of Mathematics" really useful for new students, shes a great professor

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>>8191774
I think part of the problem is that mathematics education in the US public school system is really poor. In addition I'm sure a lot of people look at it and say when will I ever use geometry in my life? It is true that a majority of people don't us math in their life outside of basic arithmetic or very simple algebra.

Also they probably don't care. I can't really blame them for that to be honest.

>>8195359
>Also they probably don't care. I can't really blame them for that to be honest.

I can. They're receiving an education which will ensure them a decently well-paying job if they bother to listen. It's also an education their grandparents or great-grandparents could have never hoped for in their childhoods.

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>>8193081
>log in place of ln
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Most people lack the proper quantitative and spatial reasoning skills (highly inborn) and must learn these things essentially by rote and verbal workarounds.

Which is very difficult btw. 110 IQ here.

>>8195424
>They're receiving an education which will ensure them a decently well-paying job if they bother to listen.

It's not guaranteed though, and you can't expect someone to learn something hard and boring with no immediate use in case it will get them a job in another two lifetimes. An 8 year old learning something they'll need in work when they're 24 is like a 30 year old learning something they'll need when they're 90.

And most of them won't ever use it outside of school anyway. It doesn't help that the symbols and languages used are unintuitive half the time.

>>8195495
>quantitative and spatial reasoning skills (highly inborn)
Can't imagine what's its living like without those m8. If there is god, this was his gift to us.

>>8195608
Sumerians had those skills in 3000 BC. Imagine being so dumb your intellect would have been unimpressive 5000 fucking years ago, really makes you think.

>>8194767
Also in US, back in high school we used log to denote base 10 and ln to denote base e, but in college log means base e.

>>8195608
God is a social construct.

>>8195722
Your point?

>>8195732
My point is a social construct.

>>8195739
You can't expecting me to take that for granted. Proof?

>>8195748
Proof is a social construct.

>>8195756
why are you posting this in every thread?

>>8195759
Threads are social constructs.

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>>8194778
>>8194741
It should be [math]{\it crossed}[/math] graded Frobenius algebras.

>>8193080
fucking told

>>8191774
>They take one look at an equation above arithmetic level and their minds just shut off.

Honestly that's how I felt every time I attended a nuclear physics colloquium as an undergrad. They were lecturing at a graduate level. Unfortunately, my brain has decided that if it doesn't understand something it must be nap time, so instead of being able to focus and write notes so I can look shit up/ask questions later, I spend the rest of my time trying to not fall asleep in public.

Does anyone have suggestions for dealing with this?

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>>8191774
1+1 = 1+1-1+1 = 1+1-1+1-1+1 = 1+1-1+1-1+1-1+1...

1+1-1+1... = x
1+(1-1+1...) = x
1-1+1-1... = x-1
1-(1-1+1-1...) = x-1
1-(x-1) = x-1
1 = 2x-2
2x = 1+2
x = 3/2

1+1 = 3/2

>>8193081
>i personally think writing log for base 10 is weird though

It's the gold-standard for log-scale graphs tho.

I'm one of those people. Pretty basic at math honestly, it's because I feel as if it is useless to me. If I need to find an equation or something, that's fine, I will look into how to come up with one, but with a political career? It is just not as useful to me as it would be to someone motivated to become an engineer. Math is something you dive deeper into, and it's hard to find uses for math past calculus I to apply in your life unless you go into a career within technology or science.

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Been stuck on pic related for a while
It is simple as hell, the equation should be very simple

But every answer I've put in has come back wrong
The 2 attempts are the ones I thought would work for sure but didn't.

Not sure if it's
>my maths
>the software that's saying it's right or wrong
That's wrong.

Although most likely my maths

>>8196255
>I will look into how to come up with one, but with a political career?

Math and science build logic and critical thinking skills, for which even the most basic of those skills will set you apart from 99% of other US politicians.

>>8196260
I gained some while in business school, and I completely agree with you. I'm just saying, there are other ways to build one's reasoning and logic without learning set theory.

On that note, have any presidents acquired a STEM degree?

>>8191774
>their minds just shut off
implying they were on to begin with

>>8195359
The problem is that we present math as completely utilitarian, and then don't really follow through with it. People don't go to literature/music classes and say "why do we have to learn this? When will I use Shakespeare in my job?" But because math is supposed to be useful and you "need" to know it, suddenly everyone is angry that they aren't taking Intro to Checkbook Balancing.

>>8196311
>People don't go to literature/music classes and say "why do we have to learn this? When will I use Shakespeare in my job?"

People say this constantly.

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>>8196258
try:
(2000/h)+sqrt(8000*pi*h)

>>8196217
>ergodic density problem

I first ran into that stuff in measure theory. Then in complex anal I had a series of homework problems about irrational rotations and everything suddenly came back to me.

>>8196326
When will I use Shakespeare in my job? Chemical industry doesn't give a crap about dead people

>>8196263
Carter, but he's probably not a shining example.

>>8193024
>>8193034
>>8193081
>>8193795
The pic clearly denotes ln and should be taken as base e.

Writing the answer in inconsistent notation should be considered incorrect.

>>8196258
Try squaring the 2πh term and putting a square root sign over it.

Also, homework goes on the homework board.
>>>/hm/

>>8196625
epic /sci/ meme dude
legion brothers storm power klan for lyfe

>>8196790
huly fug, mane, ebin meming, brude, you really outmemed that memer

>>8196244
>1/1 = 0

Is there something wrong with me? I failed geometry 3 times in HS. The teacher would do one on one lessons with me then the next day I'd completely forgot it all. I'd be great at any liberal art except for math. It just never stuck.

>>8191774
I dont understand this,why cant math just be numbers for fuck sake.

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>>8198666
them satanic trips

>>8198691
nice /s4s/ meme dude