Can /sci/ use math to answer this?

Yes.

External forces have have set the particles from the big bang into motion and have set my past present and future. Therefore the man at the lever has no choice.

>>8083999
Determinism isn't real. At the deepest levels the universe is inherently statistical.

>>8083997
Well yeah, assuming both lines stretch to infinity then the number of people on each line are the same.

>>8083997
Who cares, they'll all starve around the same time.

>>8084013
um, no.

>>8084009
>Determinism isn't real.
Hello undergraduate. Are you enjoying your summer vacation? You better be applying for those lab assistant positions if you want to get into grad school!

>>8084013
Demonstrably false.

>>8083997
I'd like to point out that if you go down the path with more people the train will probably be stopped by continuously impacting people faster

>>8084023
>Determinism is real.
Hello undergraduate. Are you enjoying your summer vacation? You better be applying for those lab assistant positions if you want to get into grad school!

>>8084009
>literally advocating for quantum consciousness
maximum overpleb

>>8083997
The left track obviously, nobody should die alone.

>>8084044
>all evidence supports determinism BUT IM RIGHT FUCK YOU
Hello undergraduate. Are you enjoying your summer vacation? You better be applying for those lab assistant positions if you want to get into grad school!

>>8084053
>no evidence supports determinism BUT IM RIGHT FUCK YOU
Hello undergraduate. Are you enjoying your summer vacation? You better be applying for those lab assistant positions if you want to get into grad school!

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>>8084023
>egotistical physics grad student detected
I'm out, kiddo

>>8084050
I didn't say that at all. I said determinism isn't real. This is irrespective of if the man at the lever has "choice" or not, but he doesn't not have choice because all the future motions of everything in his body are inherently known.


Speaking of which, here's one for /sci/.

>>8084053
determinism is more philosophy than physics anyway
stop trying so hard
noone is impressed by you

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>>8084023
>>8084044
>>8084053
>>8084060
Are you schizophrenic?

Using induction, we can assume that both tracks are countably infinite and therefore equivalent.

>>8084060
>no evidence supports determinism BUT IM RIGHT FUCK YOU
Demonstrably false.

Hello undergraduate. Are you enjoying your summer vacation? You better be applying for those lab assistant positions if you want to get into grad school!

>>8084070
One has a slower rate of death though.

>>8084073
Doesn't matter.

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>>8084067
This is why it is a bad idea to listen to science grad students about matters of philosophy. There has been a sort of breakdown in the ability to develop critical thinking and understanding skills for some reason.

t. original starter of this argument and former doer of science.

>>8084072
>no evidence supports determinism BUT IM RIGHT FUCK YOU
Demonstrably false.

Hello undergraduate. Are you enjoying your summer vacation? You better be applying for those lab assistant positions if you want to get into grad school!

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>>8084072
>>8084072
>>8084072
Original guy here. Explain. Let's hear it.

>>8084019
>>8084023
How is it not true? 1+1+1+1...=5+5+5+5...= INFINITY

>>8084084
All things have a cause. Throughout history the causeless has been proven to have a cause. It's illogical to assume the opposite, apply occam's razor undergraduate.

>>8084089
This is not respective to causality. Pure determinism anyway. The distinction lies in the way in which cause drives effect. You clearly haven't thought about this in any great detail.

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>>8083999
>external forces
But God gave you free will.
It's your choice which timeline your consciousness will jump to.
Just because all outcomes have already been created, it doesn't mean you have to witness them all.
The man at the lever, if he'd act sooner, would prevent the tram from being put into motion, averting the death of all the dastardly villain's victims.

>>8084097
What an empty reply. Embarrassing.

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>>8084108

>>8084009
>says determinism isn't real
>provides argument for determinism

>>8083997
?
Am I missing something here? Of course upper track seems to have a larger space between groups plus a smaller amount of people per groups (1 versus 5). So I'd have to go with upper track.

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Tell Sweden I'll take my Nobel in the mail.

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love these

>>8084110
>makes inspid argument
>gets called out for it
>replies with cancerous facebook reaction image

I know it's a troll thread to begin with but you are being too obvious.

>>8084131
So if you don't pull the lever you'll create 1/12 of a person? I'm not sure I can take the responsibility of new life.

>>8084149
Don't worry, it'll probably lack most of the vital organs and die in a matter of seconds. Everyone wins.

>>8084013
Divide them, they're clearly not the same.

>>8084164
They both have the same cardinality though, [math]\aleph_0.[/math]

>>8084131
Well the upper track has -1/2 people and the lower track has -1/12 people, so the upper track actually saves more lives.

>>8084086
Undergrad detected. Go back to vsauce.

>>8084176
So?

>>8084013
>>8084070
>>8084074
but the trolley can't run for an infinite period of time because of fuel and friction, so the distance traveled along each track is finite, meaning the number of people potentially killed by the trolley is finite.

>>8084176
Nevermind, you're right. You could group the people on the top track into groups of 5 and still map each group of 5 to a group of 4.

>>8084131
The bottom track only kills -1/12th of a person so

>>8084253
stahp

>>8083997
>Turn on the train
BLOOD ON THE TRACKS
BLOOD ON THE ROCKS

>>8084178
Yes, you made me realize that the only ethical choice in this situation is to slaughter both tracks to recover 7/12 of a person. Or would it be -1/12 - 1 = -13/12?

>>8083997
No one can because infinity is not part of maths

Obviously in no real word situation would the tracks stretch to infinity. Also, the train will likely stop after hitting some number of people/traveling some distance by losing energy due to friction and the collisions, etc. I don't know enough about how physics works to know which one would kill fewer people.

>>8084316
>Obviously in no real word situation would the tracks stretch to infinity.
Oh wow, you're a fucking genius.

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>>8083997
An infinite amount of people cannot exist for an infinite amount of matter to compose said people does not exist.

>>8084316
>tracks form loops
>fresh victims are continuously tied down

>>8084375
prove an infinite amount of matter does not exist.

>>8084375
>that filename

>>8083997
Upper track.

Less people will have died by the time people come to derail the trolley.

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>>8084282

>>8084105

He has choices but they are predetermined. Not all possible events exist in the Riemannian 4-manifold of spacetime. Only events that have or will happen actually exist.

>>8083997

At any finite amount of time switching the lever saves lives and I doubt an infinite amount of time will pass or that the velocity of the trolley is infinite in this experiment.

>>8084023
determinism can be neither proven or disproven.

>>8084061
>because all the future motions of everything in his body are inherently known.
Which may not be true.

Also quantum fluctuations are pretty random and affect stuff if even just a tiny bit.

>>8083997

lower track has -5/12 people chained on it, so you essentially save 5/12 of a person instead of 1/12. Lowest track is clearly the correct moral choice.

>>8083997
i can assume these tracks go on forever?

then it doesnt matter what track he takes, because the upper track clearly has a countable number of people on it.
and the lowertrack has an infinite union of finite subsets which is also clearly countable.

so either track would do.

though if the goal is dmg/s output then go for the lower track, since the people density is higher there

>>8084131
Both tracks have the same cardinality so it doesnt matter you can pick either track

>>8084188
KEK

>>8084009
"Determinism isn't real, the universe is inherently statistical" - Anon, 2016

>>8084052
>052▶
>>>8083997 (OP)
>The left track obviously, nobody should die alone
underrated

>>8084023
>Demonstrably false.
Demonstrably right.
>>8084019
>um, no.
um, yes.

There exists an (obvious) bijection between the people on the upper and lower track.

>>8084009
>A completely random phenomena accounts for something completely opposite of randomness. because why the fuck not

>>8084149
this is just bad math. stop spouting this pop-sic bullshit. fuck you. fuck off.

The first track has 9 people on it.
The second track has 40 people on it.

Switch the train so that it goes to the first track to save more lives.
This isn't complicated.

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>>8083997
It doesn't matter because both series converge to infinity. In both cases, an infinite amount of people die.

>>8084758
That's not how the zeta function works friend.

>>8084717
Determinism is both real and non-existent.

Lets say both tracks are infinite and that the trolley wont stop. We can assume theres one person in the upper track for every five people in the the other one.
The infinite people killed in the first one is smaller than the infinite of people killed in the second.
Now you still decide how many people you would like to kill.