/med/ thread Who here is studying to be a doctor, pharmacist,

>>8044486
Medicine is neither science nor math.

1st year US MD student here. How do I maximize my USMLE Step 1 score?

>>8044488
>Medicine is the science and practice of the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of disease.

>>8044489
Just memorize First Aid.

>>8044486

Excuse me, this is the science board, not the drug peddlers board.
>>>/r9k/

>>8044486
people here are too stupid for medicine, anon

all they can do is plug n chug equations, and that's it

sad state of affairs really

>>8044486
First year med here, struggling through the latter half of semester

Any of you guys wish you did PA?.
some of you pre med should really consider PA.
regretful med student here

>>8045239
What exactly are you struggling with?

>>8045257
Why are you regretting it? You won't be regretting it when you're rolling in dough.

Studying applied pharmacy in 2nd semester, love the subjects but sadly the university is shit. Thinking about just going for a regular pharma degree now, too bad my grades were to shit to do this in the first place.

>>8045275
Them loans dude.
pa school is much shorter school much shorter loans and still makes good money. not to mention they work less.
I'm enjoying med school though

I got my undergrad in Microbiology. Never really seriously considered medicine before and preferred lab work but now I'm thinking of going back to school for something medical for the job opportunities.

What are my options with a shitty GPA? I know MD and PA are probably out of the question, but any other good careers that aren't hard to get accepted into?

>>8044500

>science

top kek stamps collecting isn't science

gogle does a better job than MDs

>>8045342

What's your GPA?

My undergrad GPA was 3.2, so I did a one year post-baccalaureate program and got straight A's, bringing my cumulative GPA up to a 3.4 This was good enough to get into several US MD schools. I scored in the 94th %ile on the MCAT and had solid extracurricular activities too. Also my undergrad was a Top 30.

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>>8045196

>>8045275
To get into second year here, you need to average ~87.5+. After 1 semester, I'm sitting on an 81

>>8044486
>wanting to brute force memorize knowledge for the next 8 years of your life in med school
>wanting to spend absurd amounts of money getting a medical education designed to get you to drop out
>wanting to abandon intellectual pursuits of physical sciences to adhere to the cultural standard of what society deems successful
>doing all this for wealth and influence
>doing all this to realize you probably wont be as wealthy as you thought you would
>working 60+ hours in a place where the ill and dying congregate
>being responsible for the death of patients and breaking the news to family

but hey, you get to drive home in that nice BMW right? sounds like a pretty shit deal imho.

>>8045873
>BMW
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NIGGA I HAVE TWO PORSCHES

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>>8044486
European dentist here. I've posted here before.

I've seen the schedules of both MDs and DMDs and I wouldn't trade my current lifestyle for the world. 40 hours a week currently and on a vacation atm...

>>8044489
Start studying now

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I'm in Optometry school right now. Eyeballs are pretty cool

>>8045903
Dentists on average make half of what even the least specialized doctors make. i'd gladly work an extra 10 hours per week for double the salary.

MS3 reporting in

>glorious MS4 in 6 weeks
>glorious match day in 10 months

Med school fucking sucks and I cant wait to get my degree, a job, and some fucking respect.

>>8044489

The only thing that has shown to be the best predictor of your usmle step 1 is pre-clinical grades and # of questions done.

So
>study your ass off get high As in all classes
>memorize all of first aid, pathoma and uworld when the time comes

Got me a 263

>>8045873
>designed to get you to drop out

Med Schools do their damndest to ensure high retention rates.

>abandoning intellectual pursuits of physical sciences

Tons of physicians are actively involved in research, everything from fundamental moleccular mechanisms to gene discovery and computational genomics.

>working 60+ hours where the dying and dead congregate
Not every clinical practice centers around immediately life threatening conditions.

Is your entire understanding of medicine based off of Scrubs?

>>8045926
What part of "european" you do not understand?

European pharmacy student 4th semester reporting in.

Be me never having any trouble in school/uni and and almost always being the best. Being at the end of 3rd semester. Not really having visited lectures, because I can learn that on my own much faster like I always have. Actually getting highly coveted internship in local hospital pharmacy during exam phase. Thinking everything is still easy. Starting part time job, because need some money for "free time".

Later realizing its not that easy. Getting on my limits the first time ever. Completely freak out. Fail one stupid exam cause not enough time and not used to having stress. Having to repeat this exam, in consequence having one semester not doing anything but preparing this exam.

What do during this time to prepare later career to kinda even out my arrogance induced fail? Also general advice appreciated.

Veterinarian here.. Anyone wants to take a look at my research request for a PhD? Can't tell if it really shitty or not, its from field of pharmacology.

>>8044486
>Who here is studying to be a doctor

>Europ.
>final year, done in three months.
It's overhyped as shit and it's an emotional rollercoaster of stress, emotions and general unpleasantries. You're sold an image of prestige and high level competence, what the actual reality is that you're figurately stuck with your elbow up a persons anus and have no idea what you're trying to find.

The pay is good, yes you can learn most of it from practical work experience, but the fucking mental suffering and extreme stress you have wade through is likely to leave you with PTSD(literally speaking, this is not a figure of speech but literally you can get fucked over big time due to extreme spikes of stress and "medical isolation"), classmates committing suicide isn't a very enchanting experience, and they're doing it because the education.

If I had a time machine I'd probably go back and go for some 3-year trade specialization instead, cheaper and better starting income, which given debts and work opportunities would mean I could earn more money over the following 20-year period than I would as a MD.

>>8044486
I'm studying biotech
Does it count? It feels more like an applied chemistry degree than anything.

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>>8045873
>Do all that shit to become a doctor
>Get replaced by a robot after 30 years

JUST

>>8045257
sorry but what's PA?

>>8046078

Physician assistant.

Essentially youre a permanent resident. You get to do many doctorly things like write orders, prescribe medications, help out in surgeries, do minor procedures, etc, but you will always have to run your plan by and get approval from the attending (boss) physician. Just like a resident does, except theres no hope for you to ever be able to practice totally autonomously.

The upside is its only 2 yrs of school and you can get to work pretty much straight away at a pretty decent salary. I think a lot of surgical PAs make ~100k.

Downside is theres no way to specialize, and you basically do the same shit your entire career. Salary also doesnt advance much past what you start at I believe.

In chicago at least, its surprisingly a female dominated field. All qt3.14 blondes and brunettes that get hired by male surgeons to be eye candy.

What are your plans when you get automated out of a job?

In an alternate universe, where I didn't come from a broken home, knew how to study and work hard, I would've loved to had been a PA.

Present day reality me: majoring in a social science with a 2.9 GPA. Do they have PA schools in the Caribbean?

what are some solid extra activities that med schools look for?

>>8046175
Ayyy are you a cute girl? Or gay? Hmu.

>>8044486
Biomedical Science grad student here. Does that count?

>>8046220

be a nurse

>>8046242
If you have money those pay to be a doctor for 2 weeks in a foreign country trips for college kids are great. med schools admissions people love those for some reason. SUCH SERVICE. SO HUMAN. when in fact any moron with 2 grand can go do it.

>>8045940
Awesome score!

>when the time comes

Are you a believer in doing dedicated study only during the block allotted after year 2 or is it better to start as early as possible? I feel like the "six weeks is plenty of time to prepare" thing is just a meme spouted by gunners to make sure that others don't achieve their potential.

I guess the counterargument would be that it would be a waste to do UWorld too far out from the exam date.

What was your study timeline like?

>>8045917
I am currently a high school science teacher looking into optometry school. Any advice? I only have one prerequisite course (microbiology) left that I need to take, and then I will take the OAT.

>>8046333

six weeks full time prep will get you an average score.

I started prepping 6 months before. We had 3 week blocks so starting in january I would study for step for 2.5weeks then 2-3 days before lecture exam would cram whatever was on it.

kept that up until march, then I just went full boards until start of june and my exam

We still had lecture exams and a series of NBME subject exams but stopped studying specifically for them

I think I was studying like 10-12hrs a day for six months. Shit was insane.

>>8046406
Thanks, man. I hope to follow in your footsteps.

What are you specializing in btw? I imagine you could get into any residency in the country with a 263.

>>8044767
>>8045357
>>8045385
>>8045873
>>8046214
t. Butthurt medical rejects

>automation
You realise most studies put allied health professionals as least likely to be automated in the next 20-30 years right?

However a physics grads main employment source is getting rapidly automated, what with the invention of self service machines at MC Donald's

>>8045884
Ooo what kind anon?

>>8045917
Good for you anon. It's sad people doesn't give a shit about human sense organs even though we depend on them and constructed this whole society based on them.

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>>8046577
all physics grads rapidly BTFO with great gusto

>>8046577
That's great but it still isn't science or math

>>8046043
Depends where,
I am biotech too, but it's more like engineering here.

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>>8046577
>what with the invention of self service at McDonalds

>>8046175

FNP/ACNP and a lot of none of
>>8046175
>Essentially youre a permanent resident. You get to do many doctorly things like write orders, prescribe medications, help out in surgeries, do minor procedures, etc, but you will always have to run your plan by and get approval from the attending (boss) physician. Just like a resident does, except theres no hope for you to ever be able to practice totally autonomously.
this wih something called a life that not a single MD/DO I have met actually has, oh and if you are a hustler,
>>8046175
>surgical PAs make ~100
that's your starting salary with RVUs pushing that to mid-200s. Not even joking.

But hey, autonomy and a huge difference in knowledge. It's really just up to you.

>>8046660
>>8044488
>>8045357
Doesn´t "Medicine based on evidence" follow the scientific method?

>>8047312
There is no point arguing
It's the fox and grapes problem

"Huurr medicine isn't real science I could do it if I wanted too but I just don't want to"

>>8047314
But I wanted to know the "clever" answer of the "most intelligent" of /sci/ that only know to live scorning what they don´t do

I'm studying to do the GAMSAT for graduate medicine, I already have a finance degree.
I used to read the same complaints on finance boards as in this board when studying finance.

i.e-
It's not worth it
Too difficult
Not enough pay
Automation
etc

I entered the field of finance and found that it was easy, and the pay was decent.
The only thing that pissed me off was the asshole people. I was granted nothing but money for my troubles.

I have decided to become a doctor because I have an unfulfilled god complex, I want to help people
and feel that if people are going to piss me off regardless I may as well be rewarded with more than money.

I would really like to know if these complaints are factual or just standard frustration as with any career.

Yes doctors work long hours, yes they get paid a fair bit but is the career truly as unreasonable as some say?

If you want to avoid stress go do a menial job for shit pay. I'm choosing to do medicine because:
- I like people regardless of their bullshit
- I want to help them
- Existence is so much more than just money, and medicine allows me to engage with reality in a much deeper
way than any other job


I am genuinely intrigued in peoples true motivation in doing medicine. Was it because your family wanted you to or etc,
because if you were genuinely passionate about the job why complain so much?
The jobs I have done in the past I would have happily done them for free, and in many cases I have.

This rant was obviously not written to cause offence, yes I am arrogant but I don't want to come off as insincere
Please let me know what you think.

What do you say when the medschool interviewer asks: "why do you want to become a doctor?"

>inb4 "hurr durr I want to help people"

>>8047646
It's more complicated than that. Didn't want to go into detail because I rambled enough.

>>8045903
Eastern Euro student to become dentist in a month here.
I have a question for you.
Do you guys take foreign students with low to none experience on paid internship(just to pay bills for food at least) and are willing to dedicate to the job?
I got an offer from someone on /biz/ but I don't know first thing about how this things should happen.

Medicine is not a science and had never been falsely claimed as one until the 21st Century.

Medicine is no scientific than psychology or scientology.

There is no falsificationism or positivism.
It's just a bunch of hypothetical circle jerks.

The few cures found were by Phds in Biology, Virology, etc.

If medicine were really a science, then all practitioners should also have Phds in Chemistry and Biology.

>>8047408
> I want to help them
But they don't want to be helped and you will learn this on your first day actively working with people.
Unless its a life or death and i mean literally the people and on the verge of dying they will give you the middle finger.
There is really really small number of people that actually respect doctors and understand that they are the ones asking for help and should leave the matters in our hands.
>I am genuinely intrigued in peoples true motivation in doing medicine.
I had no idea what i wanted and just made the decision because my father already has his own office so i figured its a way to start something easier.
I was wrong for number of reasons that I wont go into and I regret my decisions.
>because if you were genuinely passionate about the job why complain so much?
Your patients are crazy,your colleagues are crazy and whats more important they have bigger egos that music stars.

>>8045382
2.8, also I went to a mediocre state school. What is a post-baccalaureate program? Is it hard to get into? I'm not sure if my original university offers that kind of thing. I thought about bringing my grades up by doing a masters program but I doubt I'd be accepted to that with my GPA either.

>>8047314
Pretty shit grapes desu, who wants to be overworked and produce no/limited original research

>>8045873
>wanting to help people
>loving the science and understanding of the human body
>healing people

>>8047813
Thanks for the reply. I understand that people don't want to be helped but I find surgery too fascinating to resist.
The good thing is that in the UK the government lets you do degrees that benefit the NHS, for free, so even if I don't like it I wouldn't really have lost anything apart from a bit of time.
I feel like dissecting cadavers would be worth the stress of getting onto a medical degree.

>>8047408
3rd year medical student here
most of my close (cousins ect) family are dr's (14) so that gave me a lot of interest from a young age.
My grandfather was a dr in the army and removed a live rpg from a soldier's chest cavity - winning a Southern Cross medal. Very inspiring story for a little boy
I started off for the interest in the human body and the money, but
As i have started working with people it became about helping them and healing them
also research is fucking amazing

>>8047875
>I feel like dissecting cadavers would be worth the stress
Get ready for the smell
Oh the smell

also buthurt surgeons that will shit on you every opportunity they have,which in all right they can do but its really not necessary and I don't know why they are so amused by it.

>>8047827
A post bacc is just more undergrad coursework. A masters is OK, but it doesnt get included into your premed cumulative GPA, only undergrad coursework does. My "post-bacc" was literally just a second bachelor's that I simply didn't finish. I just enrolled at my local state college for a second bachelor degree, took a bunch of classes to get A's to pad my GPA, and then left. Inquire at your local state school; im sure they'd let you enroll for a second bachelor. My advice: try your best to bring your cumulative undergrad GPA up to at least a 3.0. That is the absolute floor. Under that and you will get autorejected by screeners. Then you have to absolutely balls to the wall hard on the MCAT, I'm talking 95th %ile+...This, plus some solid extracurriculars and applying very broadly (~30 schools) will probably get you in somewhere. Also look into D.O. programs; they allow you to become a fully licensed US physician but are significantly easier to get into.

I'd love to study any form of medicine but I live in the US and have no money for more schooling. I have a BS in biology and decent enough grades but I have no desire to take out massive loans. Plus I need to work to maintain my current lifestyle and I don't see how I can work part-time and handle the rigors of further schooling, I barely made it out of undergrad that way.

>>8047883
this gives me hope, what kind of research are you doing?

>>>http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/17/2/152.abstract
Daily reminder that physicians are dumb fucks who bruteforced their ways into education but wouldn't be able to understand hs tier mat

I was just about to make a thread for this. Just looking for information and suggestions.

Sometimes I'll get a thought/urge to do the most inappropriate thing possible at that time. Whether it be strangling the kitten in my arms, spitting in someone's face, or exposing myself and then 'touching them with it'. It hasn't been happening as often, thank God. That is except for the kitten strangling that happens 3/5 times I hold her.

Also, whenever in a quiet classroom or talking to someone I don't know but would like to, I begin to shake. I understand that this is nervousness, but I was just wondering why it came out of nowhere like this.

>>8046577
Fucking savage.

>>8044486
>Caduceus
>medicine

>>8048662
Hmm, many people actually have these thoughts - there's a French term for it that slips my mind at the moment - but most people don't actually act upon them. I'd like to say that you just have underdeveloped control/motor skills, but I'm an armchair doctor so take my word with a grain of salt. Do you have any other symptoms?

>>8048676
I have to agree with the motor skills, I forgot that recently I've felt as if I forgot how to walk. I thought it was all in my head at first but then someone asked why I was walking like that, I just said that my leg hurt.

>>8048691
But your head doesn't hurt at all? I mean, if you're acutely aware of these symptoms, it could be a form of self-fulfilling hypochondria. Also, have you had any sort of head trauma at all recently?

Maybe you should just see a neurologist; it might be helpful

>>8048701
No pain at all, no trauma; other than the motor skills and thoughts I'm very healthy.

The hypochondria is very likely because I never face these problems at home where I have nothing to worry about. If it gets too bad I'll see a neurologist, thanks

>tfw dicked around in undergrad and went to class sparingly
>tfw get shitty 3.2 overall gpa

I still want to get into an MD school /sci/, but I don't know if a post bacc program is sufficient enough to make up for my shit gpa. I am aiming for a high MCAT obviously and doing alot of medical volunteer/work at the moment. Any advice?

>>8048822
See>>8045382

Same exact predicament. 3.2 is ABSOLUTELY workable. Take 1 year of postbacc but make damn sure you get STRAIGHT A's, No A minuses, just a 4.0. If you can bring your GPA up to a 3.4 plus score 90th %ile+ on the MCAT plus apply broadly (~30 schools), you WILL get into an MD program.

I did this exact thing, and I got tons of interviews and acceptances. I even got accepted to a Top 10, but I chose a lower ranked school because it was significantly cheaper, and I didn't want to be away from my family.

>>8048850
What about a 3.39?

Is a post-bac better than just getting an MS in something you'd like to do research in?

>>8048858

Well, to be totally honest with you, my cumulative GPA did end up being exactly 3.39. I shit you not. I just said 3.4 in this thread because it was more convenient.

I had to get 11 straight A's to get from a 3.21 to a 3.39.

As for postbacc vs masters, See>>8047971

Only the postbacc will boost your cumulative GPA. The Masters GPA is considered completely separate.

Personally, I would advise the post-bacc. Of course I'm biased because it totally worked for me. But also consider that a post-bacc is significantly cheaper. My whole postbacc year cost about $9K with in-state tuition at my local state college...a masters would have been like $50K.

They also have this thing called "special masters program" (SMP)..which is basically just a masters specifically tailored for getting into med school. Some of them are even affiliated directly with med schools, and the top % of the class gets an automatic interview or even acceptance at the med school...However if you go the SMP route and then fail to get in, the actual SMP Masters is basically worthless on its own. And again, you can expect to pay like $50K for it.

So yeah, given your GPA, I'd go for a post-bacc...Also, make sure that your postbacc is composed ENTIRELY of BCPM classes (bio, chem, physics, math). That way they also boost your science GPA, which is calculated separately.

>>8048850
Ahh I didn't catch that post of yours OP.

Thanks for the advice. I am quite sad, that AMCA doesn't do grade replacement or else my gpa would be slightly better. Oh well.

How did you explain to your interviewers about your low undergrad GPA? I know I have a chance but mental hurdle with the GPA thing annoys me.

>>8044486

>tfw Canadian
>3.8something GPA
>will probably not even get interviews

Why the fuck is it so hard to get into Canadian med schools?

>>8048893
Yeah man, I know the low GPA mental hurdle all too well. It's an emotional roller coaster for us nontraditional applicants, but you just gotta keep your eyes on the light at the end of the tunnel, even if it looks like just a tiny speck at the moment.

As for how I explained it to my interviewers, I focused on my extenuating circumstances. I'm a first generation college student, so it was sort of a cultural shock for me stepping foot on a college campus and being way less prepared compared to my peers from more privileged backgrounds. That said, I didn't use it as an excuse for a pity party. If you do have an extenuating circumstance like this, just explain it plainly for what it is without making it seem like a pity party...ultimately, I also owned up to the fact that I had poor time management as an underclassmen...but then I pointed to my significant upward trend, especially the year of straight A's and concluded that I had figured out how to work at my potential. Your need to point out how your experience showed resilience and adaptability ultimately.

>>8047947
You get used to it after 3-4 sessions, I was always respectful, the people who donated their bodies gave us the most valuable teaching tool for anatomy out there.
The smell isn't that bad, its formaldehyde. Not the most pleasant but won't make you heave.

And I disagree, most surgeons are bro-tier. I'd watch out more for the autismo internist beta attending who got bullied in highschool and now shits on anyone with any social skills

>>8045357
>this is what the average person thinks

>>8044489
UFAP + Brosencephalon

>>8045342
Carib med school

>>8048992
>Brosencephalon

I was thinking of making my own set of flash cards based on First Aid. Is this a waste of time?

How far out from the exam date do you recommend starting?

>>8049015
Use Bro's for the STEP. Just use his if your basing your flash cards off of FA, you'd be wasting your precious non-existent time making something that's already been done for you. If you go over something in class, go over his deck on that topic (for example you learn cardio pathology in class; go though Bro's cardio deck)

However, if you need to, make your own cards from your professor's powerpoints for your exams.

But seriously, UFAP should be priority.

Just my 2 cents

>>8049015
Forgot to mention, start UFAP as soon as posible just like >>8045940 said.

Fuck dude, UWorld even has an app for your phone so you can do questions on the bus or on your walk between classes.

>>8049035
>>8049039

Thanks for the advice, man. I'm matriculating this August. I guess I'll try to make a first pass through FA even before orientation...My classmates will hate me if they find out. I'm shamelessly aspiring to be a gunner lol

Anyone have any good books about Medicine to read?

I am about done reading"One Doctor" by Brendan Reilly and it's quite an entertaining read. The patients that he introduces in the book and how he relates them to pertinent medical problems in the U.S are fascinating. This book also confirmed my suspicion that I wouldn't be able to handle the shitstorm that occurs in the E.R.

>>8048884
SMPs are actually my interest, short of that I'd just try to get a second BS. I think I could actually get a BS chem from my Uni in only 15 more credits.

I'm looking at an SMP in human genetics though, one at Tulane. How "useful" the degree is on it's own is my interest though. I am extremely interested in specializing in medical genetics, or being a research-physician in genetics. If an SMP MS helps with that is my interest.

>tfw cramming all the test material a few days before the test
Every fucking time.

Whose dick and how much of it do I need to suck to get into neuro-research?

>>8048884
what a fucking joke

how are you allowed to do this?

>brb taking a post bac year taking bullshit classes to bring my gpa up
>brb applying for math phd

oh wait they actually pull your transcripts and look at your math class grades

are you telling me they actually just glance at your gpa and dont strictly look at only the courses they require?

is this why there are so many stupid doctors?

>>8049132
No need to be so jelly, he's playing the game by the rules.

funny how people talk about medjobs being automated in 30 or so years

what exactly do physicists or mathematicians do that is not automated as we speak? the LHC does all the fun stuff, the rest of you sit and play with wolfram alpha and do pretend research on a fucking blackboard

heh

>>8049132
Keep in mind they basically still shit on you if you don't ace your science classes.

That and you need a flawless MCAT to make up for any gpa below a 3.6/3.7.

>>8048948
>I'd watch out more for the autismo internist beta attending who got bullied in highschool and now shits on anyone with any social skills
Well I try be social but it doesn't work

> 5/6 year long medicine degree; no actual thought processing or problem solving involved just loads of regurgitating info
> 2 year foundation program where you are expected to work long, shitty hours with hardly any time for breaks - pays only 30K a year
> Another 3 years training to go for the specialty you want to be in, with marginal pay increases
> Once your in the position you want to be in you still have to work ridiculous hours, have to deal with the "Why can't you do anything aren't you supposed to be a doctor?" shit, migrant doctors taking your job and on top of that the money is still only around £60-100K a year in the UK, which is routinely earned by school dropouts who joined the army and are now working on an oil rig
> Even the prestige thing isn't that big any more (speaking for the UK), and doctors are constantly being sued and struck off for making just one mistake

Why do people want to become doctors? It always seems to be people who have something to prove by throwing away their 20's when you should be enjoying your life balancing your career with your hobbies and interests. Look at a 30 year old doctor and a 30 year old engineer and tell me who happier and more prosperous.

Do pre-med students think other pre-med students are as dumb as I think pre-med students are?

The guy I talk to most at uni is pre-med and even though his marks are better than average, he is super dense. The other pre-meds are even worse.

>>8045926

>amerifat

>>8046036

>oh noes, my life went wrong because i picked a career based on money and prestige instead of my interests!

>>8048948

I think he is referring to the "fresh" ones.

Had to dissect a guy who was found 3 days after he died.

Protip: there are some creams that will heavily impair your sense of smell, just put a bit under your nostrils!

>>8049058

Do not read books about Medicine, it's like trying to see how a doctor works by watching scrubs

>>8049265

> no actual thought processing or problem solving

Diagnosis is exactly that. Also, you need a bare minimum of social skills for patient interaction.

>marginal pay increases

It actually increases your income by 2/5 times, at least here

>UK

And now everything is clear!

Enjoy your fallimentar sanitary politic!

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>>8047779
I repeat the question, Doesn´t "Medicine based on evidence" follow the scientific method?

>There is no falsificationism or positivism
Why do you want to embarrass yourself? That´s false

>The few cures found were by Phds in Biology, Virology
Who is Ramón y Cajal?
Who is Edward Donnall Thomas?
Who is Alejandro Madrigal?
Who is Karl Landsteiner?
Who is Fleming?
Who is Baruch Samuel Blumberg?
Who is Salvador Moncada?

>at the Doctor today for getting flu shot
>asks me what I do
>tell him I just finished my science undergrad at uni
>says something like "a man after my own heart, not enough scientists in this country"
>chuckle to myself about a physician calling themself a scientist

>there are people who actually like their shitty European country and want to stay there

always surprises me desu.
I always assume everyone is like me and is studying science so he can one day become a citizen of the greatest country of all time, America.

t. Germancuckold

>>8049762
Shit I was studying science to go become a chemist in Germany.

>>8049768
literally why; it sucks ass here; the only good thing is that you can study 4 free

Why do people not consider medicine a science?
Are they butthurt that they didn't get into medicine or is there validity behind the claim?

Medicine stills gives more prestige than almost any other job.

Every job is stressful relatively speaking.

The inevitable privitisation of the UK's medical system will lead to dr's going private and getting paid more.

Why so much bitching?

> people in this thread:
> 1) I'm a medical graduate and I hate my life
> 2) I'm a Dr and it's not so bad
> 3) I feel like shitting on aspiring medical students
> 4) I feel like encouraging aspiring medical students
> 5) I thought life was going to be buttercups and daisies
> 6) I understood the demands, I went in and rocked it

> Conclusion
> People in or considering medicine as a career are crazy

>>8049782

You're deluded if you think that the UK's medical system will be privatised. It changes, but it will never be privatised.

>>8049265
You forget that some people actually have a backbone, and are willing to help others out as part of wider society.

>>8049782
Your problem is that you associate science with prestige, which is retarded, scienitists are barely an echelon above IT techs and accountants.

>>8049809
What else do you think is going to happen?
Hunt has had almost 80 meetings with the BMA and is still at a dead end.
He is clearly pushing hard for this shit, if not full privitisation then part.
The world has never been in this much economic or social turmoil, people like him will take full advantage of any oversight or slip.

>>8049815
Have you been living under a rock? the majority of the world associates science with prestige.
Objectively there is nothing on earth that is prestigious, but you are misguided if you think that scientists are barely an echelon avobe IT techs and accountants.
Consider the barriers to entry and study requirements.

>>8049814
How exactly does a fucking lowly medic help society more than engineers? You might treat a few thousand at most in your life time, even the shittiest reactor optimization done by an undergrad RA could affect billions with cheaper meds or through economic proliferation.

Don't lie MD is for money whores only.

>>8049828
No, the word scientist implies low paid beta and the image that springs to mind is some shitty stock photo of a chemist playing with pretty colours.

Something like mathematician holds more prestige, but only in professional circles.

>>8049828
>barriers to entry and study requirements.
Pretty sure the barries for the majority of scientists (ie bio-something etc.) is far lower than accounting.

>>8049835
>low paid beta
oh boy here we go again.
Bullshit retards that know nothing about anything are here to tell us what is the world and its hierarchy.
Have at it you pathetic little shits.

>>8049842
It IS one of the lowest paid professions you fuckwit.

With the exception of CS and physics, scientists (not incl. math) is paid lower than shit like nursing and, yes, IT.

>>8049839
please be bait

Even if you have swallowed the bio is easy meme (protip: it's a meme) from /sci/ (protip #2: undergrad degrees are babby tier in every science), you have to be deluded to think that the researchers in that field and every other scientific field are not light years beyond anyone non-STEM in prestige and intelligence. Try meeting some. Although I'm pretty sure you were baiting at this point, either that or you are truly butthurt about STEM for some personal reason.

>>8049770
>literally why
>what is BASF

>>8049835
>chemist playing with pretty colours.
hesrightyouknow.vqf

>>8049855
m8, have you ever actually fucking worked in a research lab? Most people don't hold PhDs and the majority of BSc degree holders are low paid lab techs. Usually with some shitty title like "scientist level 1" to distinguish them from people who actually know shit.

>>8049832
This is an interesting point, however how many engineers ever get into a position where they
can affect change in that way? meanwhile every dr is personally making a difference daily.
Medicine doesn't get paid that much, but neither do most jobs. Getting paid anything more than
100k while employed by someone is a waste as most of it goes towards taxes. Money in any
industry sits in self employment. Be it private medical care or chewing gum distribution.

>>8049835
What "professional circles"? Do you mean the socially retarded, autistic, uber intelligent minority
of the scientific community that no one gives a fuck about anyway?
I do agree that maths may be more cerebral but every field has its pros and cons.

>>8049839
This is definitely a joke.

>>8049862
Which was exactly my point. Scientist =/= lab tech. Scientists are the researchers, the PhD holders. Do you think a physics major is a scientist? I don't.

Continuing from that point, the researchers (i.e. PhDs, post docs etc.) are far higher in prestige and intelligence than anyone else. That was my point.

>>8049862
I guess everyone has to start somewhere.

>>8049870

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Framework_of_Qualifications

Scientist is just a job title right?
Prestige is perspective, and in 99% of the world's opinion, medicine
is one of the most prestigious degrees to hold.

Working in a lab is pleb tier in society's opinion and saving lives is god tier.

>>8049877

Look, I'm not the guy you were originally arguing with, so I don't know where that thing about medicine came from. Yes, medicine is prestigious af in the public's opinion because romanticised job and saving lives and loving puppies and all that, but not so much in STEM grads opinion. Scientists hold a lot of prestige as well from the public because they're usually smart as shit, but they don't save lives like docs (at least not all of them).

I was merely contesting the bait-tier post about scientists having lower entry requirements than accounting or some shit.

That said, >>8049871 is right and even undergrad STEM babbies have higher entry and study requirements than anyone else, they just aren't scientists YET.

>>8049053

that is such a bad idea

dont start studying before school.

1) it wont help, as you will not understand anything being presented to you, ESPECIALLY in FA. FA is not from learning from for the first time, its for review. Hence being a review book
2) the first two years of med school are so awful that you will wish you dicked off for that month you wasted your life reading FA instead of trying to do anything


>>8049071
An SMP is basically some of the core classes of the first year of med school. You take the courses with first year medical students. Its a try out for med school. Often doing exceptionally well (~95% average) will get you at least an interview if not an acceptance to that school that is hosting it. If you go and do poorly, and dont get in, its a worthless 50k$ piece of paper.

>>8049376
pre-meds are awful people generally

>>8049086
>tfw cramming for family med rotation final in 2 days
>fml

Burnout is real

What's with all this GPA talk? Why is it so important?

>>8050214
Without a 3.7+, getting into med school ain't easy.

>>8050221

I see. So what happens when you get in?

>>8047828
Medicine has a lot of branches. Not all of them are like that.

Besides, is it really work if you enjoy it?

>>8048662
This is a recognized condition. You should see a psychiatrist.

>>8050221
I'm about to be a high school senior (I'm 18 pls don't ban) with a 3.5 taking AP classes and in the medical program at my school. I'm also involved in a ton of band extracurriculars. Do undergrad schools reject you if you tell them you're planning on going to med school but have sub 4.0 high school grades? I had one bad semester where I finished with a 2.9 and got a D in trigonometry.
I'm asking so I can save myself the embarrassment when applying for college.

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I'm soon to be radiologist, no prior medical background (except my grandma was a nurse).

I'll be taking pictures with CT, MRI and shit

How fucked am I?

>>8050275
>How fucked am I?
not fucked at all.
Bitches love you for some reason

>>8050230
How do you mean?

It's supposedly hard to fail out of med school, if that's what you're asking.

>>8050272
Nah, highschool is largely irrelevant outside of getting you into undergrad, and a 3.5 is fine for that at most schools.

>>8050275
>soon to be a radiologist
>no prior medical background

uhhh....What? In the United States, you need to go through 4 years of medical school and then a 5 year radiology residency to become a radiologist.

>>8050294
I mean: do students still worry about grades?

In my experience grades and clinical ability don't seem very correlated. Some of my most respected colleagues were pretty average in school.

>>8044486
That's a caduceus. It should be a staff of asclepius

>>8050314

People do worry about grades in medical school. Even at the supposedly Pass/Fail programs, they keep track of your numerical exam grades to calculate an internal class rank, which is shared with the residencies that you apply to.

>>8044486
I'm hoping to go to Medical school in the future. I'm 18 now and living in Ireland. My grades aren't even half of what they need to be to enter Medicine right now, so I'm going to do Nursing first, work for a few years as a Nurse to save up money for Medicine, and then hopefully sit the GAMSAT and get into a Graduate Medicine program,

Is this a good decision, /sci/? It seems sound enough to me, and my parents support my decision.

Furthermore, is Medicine as study-intensive and nightmarish as it sounds?

I was around doctors a lot when I was a child, and I've recently grown a passion to be one.

[math]x^n \frac{\partial x}{\partial y}[/math]

second year radiographer reporting

[eqn]x^n \frac{\partial x}{\partial y}[/eqn]

>>8046036
Classmates committing suicide? Jesus, anon, is it really that bad?

I want to go into Medicine in the future ( I'm this guy >>8050443). But I hadn't considered the suicidal tendencies of students.

>>8050313
>In the United States, you need to go through 4 years of medical school and then a 5 year radiology residency to become a radiologist.

and you also have to pay through your nose for it, education is a business in america, silly lard

>>8050472
You need to pay for med school, but in residency, they pay YOU!

>>8046001

I'd be interested!

Vet student here.

>>8050490
A whole minimum wage too.

>>8050443

I'm a vet student. I have med school friends and yes- it can get study-intensive and nightmarish. Our current fourth years have had fifteen exams over the course of two weeks before they start their rotations.

However, you rapidly learn to deal with the workload. It's manageable as long as you stay on top of it.

>>8050511
Can I ask why you decided to treat animals instead of humans? I'm not bashing, I'm just curious.

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>>8044486

>MFW you read anything medical you hear it in Dr Steve voice.

>>8050535

The short answer: humans suck.

The long answer: humans bloody suck.

However, in all seriousness...Honestly, I couldn't see myself treating humans. I enjoy working with them, and understand that a huge part of my job is working with them to improve animals welfare but medically treating them? No thanks.

I grew up in a farming community, I've been helping out with lambing and pd'ing cows since I was a teenager. I started shadowing vets at a very young age and became fascinated with how the body works and more importantly how we could treat it medically whilst also in terms of farming increase productivity. It was a natural step up for me.

Also, I hold massive issues with assisted suicide, and strongly believe it should be allowed. I was a carer for a number of years (dementia - I watched my Dad go from being a professor to a vegetable where he couldn't even go to the toilet by himself) and firmly believe death can be a quality of life issue- I couldn't bear the thought as a human doctor of prolonging people's lives in cases like my Dads.

Sorry for thE whimsical post, it's not really black and white I'm afraid!

>>8050586
Oh, that makes sense. But since a dog obviously can't describe its symptoms to you like a human could, do you think being a Vet is harder than being a Doctor?

Sorry about your father, anon.

>>8047779
Psychology is very well a science. It simply doesn't have its claims backed as well as the contemporary sciences due to it being around for 1/1000th the amount of time the other sciences have been around. And really only those with a Phd in psych should be considered credible imo

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>>8050586

However, there is one massive downside. All vet students wish they were medical students when the magical term "species differences" comes in to play.

Think it's hard trying to learn for example limb anatomy? Learning nerves/blood vessels/muscles and bone is difficult for one species? Try learning it for all manner of species: sure, some of them are similar but the moment horse's are mentioned as an example for limbs you know you're in for a 'fun' time. I guess variety is the spice of life.

>>8050600

It's different. I wouldn't say harder, as from what I've heard from my med students patient's aren't exactly the best at describing their symptoms all the time.

Essentially it's the same process, run a clinical exam, note any abnormalities, run diagnostics to further narrow down your possibilities and then make a prognosis. We're just a lot more hands on with our patients, but saying that- you'd be surprised how much you can tell from body language alone.

I spent time with our resident neurologist last summer and he was identifying possible spinal lesions by palpating the individual vertebrae and reflex tests extremely accurately. MRI's were performed to confirm and pinpoint the lesion for surgery- but his palpation alone normally found the right spot. Of course he's seen years of practice mind.

I am 25, soon 26 and a doctor in europe. I am going to start my residency/specialization training in october. I d like to do cardiology and then elettrophysiology. I was interested in cardiac surgery too but after my rotation i was bored, it was only cool cause i read team medical dragon. Hope ill match in cardiology. If not ill do something like anest or peds i guess

>>8050443
TCD med here, Leaving cert is a joke if you do it right, It's really not hard to get 550+ if you put your head down. I don't know a single grad nurse but a lot of grad entry science/med related fields.
It's study intensive as much as you want it to be. If you put in a little effort you can pass easily. Grades don't really count to anything untill 4th year. I don't know if you're pre or post l.c. but it really is easier to sometimes sit it again and go undergrad . (and cheaper)
Good luck in whatever way you decide on it!

>>8050461
(TCDfag again)
No one tried to top themselves off in my year as far as i know. The support system in place is great.
It is tough at times and emotionally demanding but unless you're not an emotional wreck/special snowflake you'll get through it.
You'll see a lot of tragedies happen, but remember it's not your tragedy, don't make it about yourself, dust off, squeeze your balls so you can be there for other patients.

https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU?t=9m34s

medfags on suicide watch

>>8050520
>15 exams over two weeks

. . .

>>8050827
Building shit is one thing, but it'll be a cold day in he'll when humans trust a robot to diagnose and treat them. Physicians will never be replaced by robots. Not in our lifetime.

Inb4 robots doing surgery hurrrr durrr...There's always always a human surgeon there. Always. You need to hold someone accountable. Same thing in radiology. People think computers are gonna start reading films. Sure, but there's always gonna need to be a human to sign off on it. Someone's head needs to be on the chopping block in case the patient cries malpractice, and it sure as hell ain't gonna be Wall-E's

>>8046036
Why don't you just quit? You can stop.

>>8050919
As it turns out, that's actually a big part of why doctors are well-paid. Way too much responsibility.

>>8049053
Honestly, you won't understand anything in FA if you're not even a first year. Go through FA as you go through the courses.

>>8050827
I hope realize that by the time doctors are eliminated by automation, most lab and research positions will be redundant as well.

There really isn't much that can't be automated.

>be paramedic
>about to finish bio degree with ~3.3 GPA (fucked off for better part of first two year)
>use it to license myself to make more dosh
>want to end up in pathology or some other lab profession and ultimately research

does it look good to have these kinds of credentials under my belt for applying to a med school? What would i expect in terms of obstacles? Treat me as uneducated swine if anyone has any answers.

Current US MD students, how important is research for matching into a competitive specialty like radiology?

Moreover, WHEN do you find the time to do this research? Summer after M1?

>>8051242
A 3.3 gpa is a hindrance.

Being a paramedic will weigh in your favor well, but clinical experience (even shadowing) and research will be debatably more important to them.

Do extremely well on MCAT and get good letters and extracurriculars and you'll get in somewhere.

>>8051369

thanks my dude.

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Have any of you seen anything interesting lately?
A few weeks ago this guy came to the ER, he fell from a tree.

How respectable are Caribbean medical "schools"? What should I say to my friend considering one?

>>8051378

collapsed lung? are you a radiologist?

>>8049938
>pre-meds are awful people generally
I would not mind them so much if they didn't have to come up with an excuse for everything and act like they were hot shit. Got 50% in a test? "Oh that quiz was so weird, it was about things we had not done in class yet etc etc excuses excuses"
Meanwhile I look at my notebook and it is something we did like 2 weeks before.

Or my favourite which I hear every time there is any in-class quiz/test/exam
>that was so easy, I just ran out of time. I would have been able to get 90+ if I had time to do everything but they put too much in there. I definitely got high 80s though
Meanwhile I am thinking "yeah mate, you said that the last 4 tests and you have never gotten above 80 for anything in-class."

>>8050291
>>8050275
Aren't radiologists one of the crazy high-income professions, up there with physiotherapists? No wonder bitches love them.

>>8051379
They are scams, don't bother

>>8051405
There is a lot of work for them since there very little radiologists and everyone needs them.
If it wasn't boring as fuck I would consider going for it.

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>>8051398
Diaphragmatic rupture, abdominal viscera moved into the thorax and collapsed the lung.

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>>8051414

I want to go into radiology. It's one of the most cushy specialties out there. $380,000 average salary...not 90th %ile...just fucking AVERAGE...They literally just stare at pictures and say into a microphone what they think it looks like. No patient contact. Have you seen radiology notes? They're simple and short as fuck. You don't need to know anything about the patient's HPI; just a single line for the indication of the imaging. It's bloody brilliant. Best gig going if you ask me. You can even work from home with teleradiology.

The only downside is that the residency takes so long. 5 years...but actually more like 6 nowadays because a fellowship year is becoming the norm due to increasing competition. Also the risk of outsourcing to pajeets, but I think people make this into a bigger deal than it actually is.

Another cushy gig is anesthesiology, but I'm reading horror stories about nurse anesthetist encroachment...

I just hope my board scores are good enough for one of the lifestyle specialties.

Just checked. In my country (Australia) to become a radiologist it is a specialisation of medicine so you have to go through the full gamut of med school before specialising.

I have the grades for it but I have been actively avoiding medical school. I really don't want a customer service job.

>>8051440

In my town they're cancelling surgeries because we don't have an anesthesiologist

It's fucked

>>8051459
Radiologists also do imaging assisted procedures like biopsies if you're into big fuck off needles into potentially dying patients.

>>8049870
Yeah, but food scientists can hold PhDs too...

>>8050455
Stop! You're going to trigger them.

>>8051398
Do you have to be a radiologist to interpret a basic X-Ray

ITT: people with god complexes, pharmacists, and people who study other medically-oriented subjects.

>>8049938
>SMP
I see. I'm going to do some research then. I may just take Calc 2 over the summer, and if I make an A, I'll spend a year towards a physics degree as a contrived post-bac.

I would actually only need 38 credits of physics classes to get a BS therein, probably couldn't stack them into three semesters though.

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> Doctors/medicine students: "MEDICINE IS REALLY HARD, YOU HAVE TO WORK REALLY HARD ALL OF THE TIME AND THE STUDYING IS LIKE SO HARD"
> 45% of doctors in the UK are female

mfw

>>8051886
>I don't know how cognitive functions work
/pol/shitter please fucking leave.

>>8051886
>women dont get perks
wew
Anyway this is my final week.
from 9th to 13th i have 3 final exams,then from 23rd to 27 i got 6 more and few in between 13th and 23rd.
And this is without falling behind and everything passed in deadline.
I don't think i have the strength for the final push.

>>8051824
>people with god complexes
I have yet to see a post of someone filling that description. I see mostly butthurt people for no reason.

>>8051892
I have an exam in 10 hours, haven't slept for 24 hours, and haven't covered half the material. Just know you're not alone, I can understand you.

>>8051901
Thanks man and good luck to you,I hope you will pass.

Any other NZ med students here?

>>8050856

It's part and parcel of the course, in my first year alone we had seven exams over five days. This year I've got nine (second year). It just keeps ramping up.

At least we have two weeks study leave before any set of exams.

Sometimes I just want to quit

Is this endless exam hell really necessary?

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>>8051961
It's part of the experience :^)

You guys see this shit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TtU4UNM2po

Why are surgeons in the west so lame by comparison?

>>8044486
What year do you generally start practicals in? I'm in Norway so I have no idea when it is here, but where you're from, when do you start to practice in hospitals?

>>8052176

>dramatic music and quick camera shots make a better surgeon

sign me the FUCK up good shit go౦ԁ sHit thats some goodshit rightth ere rightthere if i do ƽaү so my self i say so thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷM HO0OଠOOOOOOଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ Good shit

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Dumping this here because nowhere else will appreciate induction and maintenance by MEMEFLURANE.

>>8052290
Sweden 3rd year. fuck I'm SO TIRED of being around doing nothing. graduation day never comes.

>>8052361
Karolinska? I'm even more frustrated with how slow my exams are going. Can't wait to get them over with and see if I get into med school

>>8052176
I am making origami since I was a kid so more than two decades now.
Does that make me surgeon?

>>8051378
Was shown an old LQTS ECG with a QTc of 600+ ms and later telemetry recorded TdP. JUST FUCK MY ION CHANNELS UP SENPAI

>>8051886
Here's something you can share with your /pol/ friends.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2532461/Why-having-women-doctors-hurting-NHS-A-provovcative-powerful-argument-leading-surgeon.html

It's true though. Got many classmates who should be nurses instead dosu.

>>8052371
When you've spent 3 years mindlessly following doctors, just listening to doctor-patient appointments and doing absolutely nothing, you will know what frustration is.

Fuck I just want to blow my brains out of BOREDOM.

>>8052406
how much does the högskoleprov matter if youre studying läkarprogrammet? had a classmate in komvux with so-so grades and got into medicine in lund

>>8052420
Uh, you enter by grades or hp. If there are several with the same grades/hp the other score is used to sort applicants.

I don't know the exact admission thresholds because they've gone down lately. I entered with hp 1.8 (and grades 21+ something). But yeah if you get 1.90+ you're pretty much guaranteed to get admitted, so I guess you could say it matters.
>why study in high school when you can ace hp and enter any university lol

>>8050709
>>8050719
>TCD

Is it really as full of shit head rich kids as people would have me believe? I hear it's basically the Ivy League of Ireland in terms of both prestige and also dickhead rich kids. Is it?

I mean, TCD for some reason has a lot of useless, shitty courses like Deaf Studies and stuff like that.
So does every other Uni and IT, but it seems especially bad in TCD based off the undergraduate prospectus.

>>8052738
I'm Irish, by the way, TCD guy. I'm not American or anything, just to clear that up.

>>8052487
tack för svaret

jag glomde göra provet men kom in iaf

>>8052738
Rich kids? yes (not all). Shithead? not so much (the odd one or two special snowflake spoiled brats make it about themselves all the time but its usually met with eyerolls). I'm working class background myself but everyone was always pretty chill. There's no "american college hollywood jocks" if that's what you're asking. Tbh people who came from different systems told me that they were really surprised of how "together" the year is since med tends to attract competitive cutthroat fucks and you can mostly see "we're in this together, we get through this shit together" mentality with everyone helping each other as much as we can.

The campus is pretty much divided into the arts& humanities and STEM parts. You might have heard it about the arts block but they're all faggots and no one pays any attention to them. You're not even directly on campus most of the time and it can be easily avoided.

UCD are a bunch of cunts, don't go there, you seem cool anon. We get better clinical exposure.

I'm going for a Bachelors in Biochemistry, do I have a chance at getting a job in pharmaceuticals?

>>8052406
>doing absolutely nothing

Your doctor doesn't allow you to participate?

The neurologist I consult with engages us, takes a moment to ask us what we think about the case before proceeding. We all have a brief discussion and converge towards understanding. It's pretty motivating

>>8053566
Well he is a neurologist, doing that and seeing ow you respond is part of the evaluation.

>>8053330
Thanks, anon.

I'm hoping to go to UL to do Nursing after I do a PLC lre-Nursing course to see how I fare.

I was thinking about going to TCD for Medicine then in later life, but I don't know yet. I might just end up going to UL's Medicine program.

All Liberal Arts majors or Art majors I've come across besides one or two have been pretentious Tumblrites. I can't imagine it's any better in TCD. Everyone I've known who was in STEM have been pretty cool.

Yeah, I've heard of the Arts block. I haven't heard good things about it.

>>8050709
I'm post LC, by the way, TCD anon.

I'm 4 weeks aways from the LC. This is my repeat year.

Last year, my points were shit because I didn't study at all, because I was stupid. I got 260 last year. I'm hoping to get around 360 this year.

>>8053566
Well yeah I'm exaggerating to fit my mental state. At the ER (split into every imaginable subspecialty that has emergency cases, because we don't have ER docs just yet in this country lol), you can be very self-going, see patients by yourself and then report to the doctor(s). Most of the time, they agree with your assessment and just talk to the patient to confirm the final diagnosis, answer any questions etc. I love this - I get to be as independent as I want, bring the doctor along for the first assessment if I feel insecure etc. Think hard about differentials, explain why I think the patient has this and not that. Get scolded when I haven't considered some deadly diagnosis (nah, they're pretty sweet most of them).

But that's just a week at max of the rotation, assuming the specialty is part of the ER at all. Rest of it is wards and appointments. And it is so slow, so boring, so uninspiring, so everything negative. They're decent sometimes - when you get to actually care for a patients and make decisions (supported by the ward doc), or take history and exam on your own with or without doc present during an appointment.

But see, this week and many times before, I've tagged along appointments with a different doctor every morning and every afternoon - with different subsubsubspecialties. The doc doesn't know me and I know shit about the diagnoses (because this is uni hospital thus many niche cases). Sometimes the diagnoses aren't even relevant to us students because they are so rare. It's fun from a "gotta catch 'em all" perspective, but I end up doing nothing and learning nothing of value.

Exceptions exist, of course. Some are great teachers of clinical skills and/or book knowledge. But after 3 years of practice you really want to start doing something, because even if the diagnoses are new for every rotation, the basics of history and exam are the same everywhere. Learning by watching was fun in first year, not so anymore.

>>8054328
Good luck anon, you got this. 4 weeks is a lot of time to study, I bet you'll surprise yourself how much better you'll do this year.

Heard good things about UL postgrad, good place to aim for.

MD-PhD student here, I know there are a few others on /sci/. Anyone else considering this?

My research is in the fields of Bioinformatics and Microbiology, considering how I can orchestrate it around clinical work in the future and still have time for my family. My wife is an engineer, so I don't feel she will have much free time either.

>>8054720
Why didn't you go the science route in the first place? Or did you change your mind during med school?

>>8047646

See my problem is don't care to "help people". Dare I say I agree with Dr. House from TV (in b4 not real hurr durr), in that I have no real desire to "help people", like you always hear doctor prospects saying as the chief reason they want to be a doctor.

I like the etiology of disease, and the selequae of pathophysiology. I love the intriciate detail of anatomy. It has nothing to do with the betterment of the individual patient. I want to apply my passion and knowledge as it relates to the law. Thus, I want to be a forensic pathologist/medical examiner/coroner.

I just wish I didn't have to slunk through 4 years of traditional medical school to get there, on top of lying about my intentions as a physician.

>>8051378

a fall from a tree resulted in a diaphragmatic rupture and herniation of the peritoneal viscera into the thorax? Did he survive?

>>8052406

600+ms LQTc?

surely he had to have gone LVA.

>>8049651

I bet you're a hit at parties.

>>8049663

I'm a master's student in forensic tox also working as a deputy coroner. You think 3 days is bad? Try 3 weeks.

>>8054746
>etiology
>selequae
>intriciate

I know you were just trying to sound intelligent, but next time the words are sequelae and intricate

thank me later, buddy

>>8054781

oops, a spelling mistake on a vietcong PTSD support board

>>8054786
not so much the spelling mistakes but the context wherein you used them, just makes you sound dishonest, anon, no need to get defensive

>>8054796

but was what I was saying wrong though?

I find it more fascinating to learn how something happened, versus preventing it from happening. besides, we're on a science board, in a medical thread, not facebook lol.

Seriously though can you answer my question? How the fuck do I answer "So why do you want to be a doctor", without regurgitating "I want to help people"?

>>8050313
there's a difference between a radiologist and an Image diagnostician, who sometimes are called radiologists too

A radiologist is the dude that takes the picture and the diagnostician reads it

>>8054726
I actually went into med-school because of the MD-PhD program. When I was considering my career, I was looking for fields where I can engage in both a practical job and research.
This is not only for variety (avoiding burnout), but also because I feel that research must be rooted in practice.

In medicine I feel that the two complement each other well, research gives your clinical practice a different perspective, and gives you a different means and approach to difficult problems. On the other side, the clinical practice keeps the research clinically-relevant, and serves as a compass to keep it on the best path. Many of the researchers I respect the most took clinical problems they faced to the lab and managed to solve them.

Of course now I see that my view was somewhat naive, as proper clinical practice and proper research take a lot of time, and the combination is often very impractical (depending on research field, medical specialty, etc.)

>>8054813
Why not medical research?

>>8054816
>A radiologist is the dude that takes the picture and the diagnostician reads it

Nope.

A technician or radionurse will be taking the picture. A radiologist looks at it and gives a statement/diagnosis based on it. Unless it's ultrasound in which case the radiologist will be using the probe and diagnosing at the same time.

>>8054813
in that regard I agree with you wholeheardtedly, pathology fascinates me, a couple of people I used to talk to all wanted to study medicine "oh I just love helping people", nah man, why can't they just admit "I want people to call me doctor"

pathology is fascinating

>>8054720

Definitely considering this route. How would you weigh the importance of lab research vs clinical shadowing in acceptance to MD-PhD programs?

>>8055234
I can only talk about my own country, which follows the European model (no pre-med, 3 pre-clinical years of med-school+3 clinical years+1 year internship).
For us, we take the break for the MD-PhD after year 3, and the acceptance is generally based nearly completely on your grades at that point (by then you should finish both your B.Sc. and your M.Sc., so there are minimum requirements for both). There are rarely problems since it's a very long and intense program, and very few students whose grades are good enough are interested. It's 10 years overall (with average age of starting med-school in my country being 24-25), and both the first 3 years where you need to finish two degrees and the last 3 where you need to keep working on your PhD during your clinical studies are very intense - though that really varies between the different universities.

>>8054753
uh wots lva
>i assume not "left ventricular assist/aneurysm"

Patient was originally admitted for fainting and long QTc on first ECG, with self-limited episodes of TdP confirmed during telemetry. Has been doing well with surgical+medical treatment including ICD. Confirmed LQTS by genetic analysis.

>>8054813
I guess you could try the angle "I want to help people instead of individuals", which you kind of mentioned. Like, putting emphasis on that you do want to apply medical knowledge to help people, but doing it by assisting the investigating physician to find the correct diagnosis, not by being the investigator yourself.

Yeah I know you said forensic pathologist but you're surely going to do some clinical pathology on the way there. Also I'm not sure it's a good idea to be focused at such a niche goal at an interview, as the road is very long, you might change your mind, or you might drop out because you can't bear dealing with patients for those years until then. I think it's really, really important that you give the impression that while patients aren't your favorites to deal with (which is perfectably acceptable, tons of specialties are like that), you can still do it, and you won't break down.

But what do I know? I doubt I'd pass an interview.

Would getting a 4.0 GPA in my masters make up for a mediocre undergrad (3.65)?

Retarded premed going into freshman year of undergrad this semester. Planning on doing a computer science bachelor's degree and taking the pre-reqs when time permits and over the summer/intersession. Is this a retarded idea? any protips?

>>8048909
>Learn french
Apply to french medical school (All the work is in English anyway)
>Get in

>>8056818
Yes but unless you for some reason just want to do a master's program why bother? A 3.65 GPA is workable and even more so if your science GPA is decently high.

>>8056905
Each school will obviously differ but I have heard that many schools separate their applicants by their major so it is a possible way to stand out. But I have to ask why are you going thus route and can you explain why when being interview by a medical school?

>>8056818
>3.65
>Bad
Are you meming?

>>8051378

This appears a R sided HTX and L tension PTX with mediastinal shift. This pt is extremely critical.

Prepare for chest tube placement immediately.

>>8057696
Honestly I simply like comp sci and find the idea of studying it for undergrad moreso then biology. Not sure how I can articulate it well on interviews but Ill keep that in mind.

>>8058162
You can probably bullshit about personalized medicine and how programming is becoming an important skill for doctors in some fields (genetics). I can tell you that I'm an MD-PhD in bioinformatics and every CS course I took is being put to good use

>>8052176

I'm all for pedagogical evolution but I just don't see how dropping people into a situation like this out of nowhere translates into real surgical skills.

Sounds like sink or swim, true japanese spirit mentality.

This thread is slow. Post nice articles/lectures/x ray films/whatever

Here's a lecture collection in cardiology. Starting with my favorites, the channelopathies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrbq2bJZ50w

>>8058162
I think it's a great choice of study - if you just find a way, it's definitely usable in medicine. As >>8058876 mentioned, genetics and bioinformatics are evolving rapidly. If you're interested in that, math and programming skills are invaluable for research. As a physician, you get a picture of (patho)physiology and a clinical perspective that no other "biologist" has, and as a computer scientist, you have knowledge in an area that no other physician has.

I don't know the situation in countries with that require some kind of pre-med study, but here (where there is no such thing), physicians are generally extremely bad with computers, maths and statistics (unless they're experienced researchers, but even those are sometimes out of it). It's such a shame. I too took some math courses (before starting medicine) and did programming for fun in high school, and it got me a small project in genetics. I definitely do not feel that my studies/fun programming were wasted time in any way, rather the opposite, I wish I was more proficient.

I'm curious to hear what all of you think about orthotics.

One year ago I went to my family doctor complaining about pain in my foot when I walk. Particularly in the muscle that gets stiffer when you stretch your second toe back. When I run my knuckle through this muscle (flexor digitorum brevis?) I can feel a sharp pain. The doctor diagnosed me with flat feet in two seconds.

I got orthotics made and it offers some relief. The pain comes back after walking for a while and it still hurts to stand for a long period of time. I got some new shoes and tried to wear it without my orthotics (they are soles that go in the shoe). They had to be removed after 10 minutes because it was too painful to wear. I used to be able to wear shoes longer than that before I got custom soles.

After some googling, it seems a number of doctors are against wearing orthotics because they don't treat the root of the problem. I want to hear what you guys think of them and what some alternatives are.

>>8059797
In my opinion you should be consulting a specialist in person and not med-students over the internet.

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Currently studying cardiac biomarkers for clinical chemistry exam in the morning, this shit is so interesting.

>>8059797
>One year ago
... okay let's continue.
>I used to be able to wear shoes longer than that
your new shoes might be shit. if i wear flat shoes for more than an hour my knees are wrecked for the day. i could wear bad shoes longer before i stopped used bad shoes.
´>I want to hear what you guys think of them
we know shit. you should ask a foot orthopedist. orthotics are great for some conditions, useless for others.
>and what some alternatives are
your alternative is a new appointment with a different doctor.

plantar fasciitis is my two second diagnosis, anyone betting against?

>>8059708
>>8058876
Thank you for the great responses.
I have yet to put much research into MD-PhD programs. What are your thoughts on it? What are you planning on doing with it after graduating?

>>8060347
see
>>8054865

Currently hoping to manage both research and clinical practice, but if I find out it's not possible without giving up my family time or I find one of them less interesting, I am willing to compromise.

Has anyone ever felt optimistic and enthusiastic about working in the healthcare initially, but then realized that most of humanity are complete imbeciles who don't deserve health care?

I hope to one day become a doctor, but gradually I have become more pessimistic with the future of healthcare. I love helping people, but I am starting to realize that only a few select individuals deserve the most optimal care possible.

Most of the patients in the hospital that I work at come here for benign reasons such as a small cut or a mild bruise. Others come here because they are drugged out of their minds from their obvious prescription abuse. These patients are often belligerent and whine like children for their "dire" needs.

For the patients that are admitted, the majority of them always think more treatment equals better recovery. I've had numerous patients in the oncology department beg physicians to undergo radical surgery or chemotherapy that has more risks than benefits. Keep in mind that these patients are in the very earliest stage of cancer progression, but they still throw tantrums if they don't get what they want.

>>8062174
>Keep in mind that these patients are in the very earliest stage of cancer progression, but they still throw tantrums if they don't get what they want.

This is why psychology is 1/4 of the MCAT now. Don't forget anon for you it may seem like no big deal but it's only natural someone would be very anxious and irrationally when they are told they have fucking cancer aka that evil thing that seems to kill everyone on their Facebook feed and TV shows.

There's two sides to every story and in general, the way someone acts in a hospital is far removed from how they act in real life. Someone may be abusing pills but it's not because they want a cheap thrill but because they are perhaps in undescrible pain.

I'm sure you know all of this the key is just to keep reminding yourself the give people the benefit of the doubt and realize how stressful situation they could be in where almost anyone would act that way

This thread being alive still makes me happy

I'd post an xray of a pt I had a while back who got a vibrator stuck up his ass but apparently microsoft fucked up windows 10 exif data removal...anyone know a good free program? would like to post it as its entertaining

>>8062174
In universities they argue pretentiously for treating the illness and not the disease, and patient/narrative-centered medicine. Sadly, at the end of the day anyone who's spent any amount of time in a hospital knows that most people are idiots who have no idea what they need and annoying as fuck.
But I think that's part of what's so unique about this profession, because working with people is sometimes the worst experience in the world and sometimes the most rewarding experience in the world, and sometimes both at the same time.

>>8062196
I guess I have the "glass is half empty" mentality, OP.

I try to empathize with the patients as much as I can, but after hearing countless drivel from ungrateful patients, I tend to believe that they don't give a fuck about their health.

However, there are a small minority of patients who are cooperative and appreciative of the advice given by our physicians. I find the latter the most rewarding experience in healthcare because for the most part, they are pro-active in their health. I would like to believe that these patients value evidence based medicine as much as I do ;_;

http://www.medicalschoolsuccess.com/med-school-hell/

What do you think about this stuff

>>8058162

I'm a medical student and have been a programmer since I was 14 years old. I still am.

My knowledge of computers definitely helped me understand the subjects I studied in medicine. I think it's amazing how many parallels between the two fields exist and how compatible they are. There's a lot to be gained by using technology in medicine for the good of the patient. I enjoy learning about computers as a hobby unto itself but I hope I can put it to good use by preventing errors, giving decision support or just making my life easier in general.

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Should I go for a bachelors in science in nursing? Got 3 years of college pretty much paid and want to get into the medical field.
Also what is the difference between just becoming an RA and getting you BSN?

Wait listed at Geffen and Northwestern fuckkkkk

dropped out of med school after a semester. $40k in tuition and living expenses down the drain, wew lad.

>>8055736

was going for left ventricular arrhythmia.

MY job now (clinical research facilitator) requires extensive patient contact and communication. the clinical aspect won't cause me to "break down" per se, I just wish there was an alternative into forensic pathology than going through the clinical track rotations in school.

you are right about it being a long time until then, however I have interned at 2 ME offices and I'm quite certain that forensic path is where I want to go. interventional cardiology is pretty neat too.

>>8063190

if you're american, and I assume in general, BSN and MSN will more gear you into admin roles withing nursing structures, or at least get you there faster. such as zone/unit head nurses, charge nurse etc, IMO if you're going nurse route just go for NP don't be a scrub (no pun).

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Someone come drink with me plx.

>>8062437
Different poster but I think your "problem" is not in terms of optimism or pessimism, rather that you care too much. Let people be ungrateful. Let people give zero fucks about their health. Some people will always be unsatisfiable and complain. Some will never take their prescribed aspirin to prevent a thrombus when they've never had one. Some will always say their blood glucose levels are excellent while their HbA1c actually is catastrophic.

Some people are very well-informed and active in their care. That's great. For those, you can be their guide and support, using your knowledge to improve their health and aid their decisions. But many people know nothing about their diseases and barely remember the names of their medications. They've never heard of "evidence-based" or "primary prevention". For them, the only thing you can do is help them wherever they are and gently walk them forward. Getting one such patient to start a single medication and stay compliant might be a bigger accomplishment than anything you ever do with a gold star patient.

I'm not saying you shouldn't care about your patients, if you don't you'll get burned out. But if people don't take their medications or don't follow medical advice, it's really none of your business (unless it's directly suicidal, in which case it's a psychiatrist's business). You can convince some to do it, but not all. If you get upset by this, you'll get burned out, 100% guaranteed. The ungratefuls are usually just stressed out (often they calm down when they've let it out), and the few, truly ungrateful ones are almost always plain antisocial - poor, miserable people either way.

>>8062297
Just take a screenshot and paste it into Paint or something.

>>8063790
Why did you drop out?

>>8064218
hated it. memorizing hundreds of ppt slides every day is pure hell. couldn't do it for another 2 years of basic science plus whatever didactics in clinical years without killing myself

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>>8064445
>hated it. memorizing hundreds of ppt slides every day is pure hell
Oh boy I feel your pain.
Pic related
Kill me please

>3.85
>98th percentile MCAT

feels pretty good

>>8064483
Any MCAT prep questions?

The best trick is to study a lot and do double digit practice tests.

I recommend studying 500-1000 hours depending on how strong of background you have.

>>8057836
>R sided HTX and L tension PTX with mediastinal shift
You didn't even get the sides right, what the fuck

I'm a medical graduate and I hate my life. Recently I've been gaining big interest in compsci, learning it as a hobby and stuff, I feel it's too late for me to study it though. Can /sci/ recommend me some interesting fields where both are well applicable side by side? Bioinformatics perhaps, but I'm still kinda hazy about that field, can you name some interesting modern practical applications of it?

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>>8045196
Medicine is pure rote. Simply put, you're going to have to have an original and esemplastic mind in order to encroach on new unexplored territory in math, physics and phil.

Mathematicians are clever. They are cleverer than most other people and that's just a fact. They know this, and they tend to condescend to others, whom they may or may not be cleverer than.
It takes more creativity and intelligence to make a breakthrough theorem in maths than it does to make bulletproof plates or execute a flawless pediatric surgery.
That being said, maths is not the "purest" field because it is actually a subset of philosophy, to which physics also belongs.
Since physics draws on certain philosophical axioms that maths does not, physics can't be described as a subset or "applied" maths.
So as far as objectivity and intelligence goes, mathematicians and physicists are probably about on a par generally. Though I do believe there are more physicists than mathematicians overall.

>>8064565
>Mathematicians are clever. They are cleverer than most other people and that's just a fact.

this must be bait

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>>8044486
Studying for a Ph.D in Genomic Parasitology. Not exactly Medicine really but a Bioscience (with a considerable amount of computer science).

>>8064583
how is this bait?
mathematicians are also more clever than people who study maths because they are usually the best/smartest of those who graduated with a math degree just like with every other stem degree.

>>8064565
Yeah but all that math is kind of pointless if it's not for something. That's what physics does, it uses the math for something: describing the universe.

That's why physics will always be cooler.

t.Physicsugrad

pharm student from McGill reporting in

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>>8063190

Most hospitals wont hire a new grad RN without a BSN or with an associates and an agreement to get a BSN within the next 2-3 years i think

>>8064483
Good grades and top MCAT wont get you in on their own, hope youve been doing a shitload of volunteering/service, leadership and research. All things I wish people would have told me when i felt like you did.

>>8063851
thank you sir, in return a middle aged male who who presented very embarrassed and in quite of bit of rectal pain.

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This one was very interesting.

>20 something female
>chronic low back pain for last 2-3 years without obvious precipitating cause, was never imaged
>failed PT and conservative management several times
>someone finally decided to get an xray...

>>8065031
what are those almost touching the spine?

>>8065031
Could you please explain the x-ray?

I don't even know what I'm looking at but I am curious.

>>8065073

view of the pelvis from the front. sacral spine in middle. pelvic brim off to the right.

something in the middle....

>>8065080
Is it a graboid?
It looks like a graboid

>>8065080
I meant what is wrong with me.

I don't know what any of the names you just said mean. I know this is a med thread but I was just scrolling down the main page and got curious about your post. I'm a fucking mathfag.

Is she fucked up? Did she break something?

>>8065098
>me

Not me, with the woman.

>>8065098

like I said her only complaint was chronic low back pain. No trauma, injury etc. No other associated symptoms.

Ill post answer in a few minutes

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>>8065051
>>8065073

Hard to tell for untrained eye but obvious mass is present in the pelvis (outlined in red)

Inside of the mass are....fucking teeth! Those are teeth if you look carefully, crown and root all there ahahaha

This woman most likely has an ovarian teratoma. Its a tumor that produces tissues from all the germ layers. The inset picture is from the internet and not this patient but when you open them you can generally see teeth, hair and other nasty shit growing in it. They can also get quite large.

Usually easily removed and overall great prognosis.

>>8065080
Is it a poo? It looks like a poo.

I know its advanced

>>8044486
med is for shitters

>>8064524

fucking lel. certain frames of a CT can trip me up but thoracic x-ray? jeebus.

/med/
Yay or Nay?

...what am I asking, it would be filled with alternative bullshit and "hey guys what is thing in my butt?" on top of normal shitposting.

Just kill me guys
I cant take this exam hell any more.Why did I make such mistake Jesus Christ someone end my misery.

>>8066107
I feel you man. I do just fine in practice but I always get fucked in these stupid exams that seem to be trying their hardest to screw me up. I can't take it anymore, seriously thinking about quitting.

>>8065113
>fucking teeth
>ovarian teratoma

Holy shit, I only saw one of these in pathology class. One of the weirdest shit I ever studied, had no idea you could detect it using X-Rays...

>>8066131
Teeth tend to be radiopaque.

>>8066131
>had no idea you could detect it using X-Rays
This is how I know that I got into hardest uni on the planet.
I knew this in my first semester together with detail description of how it develops,how to diagnose,and how to treat.
I study to be DMD.My professors are crazy.
Thank you Eastern Europe.I need to know all this shit for $200/month pay.

>>8066464
Country?

>>8066790
Macedonia.
Its so sad.

Man, you guys have it easy in the States

>>8065998
nay, medicine is a science

Hello Doctors Please i need Clinical Microbiology Made Ridiculously simple pdf

3.5 cGPA, 3.7 sGPA, no volunteering, lots of work experience, involved in outside of school extracurriculars. No MCAT yet.

Chances of getting into a MD program? I'm a Texas resident wanting to be an ER doc

>>8066940
get volunteering, research (published preferably) and shadowing down

Med lab science student here. A bit anxious about finding work when I graduate as there seem to be fuck all entry level medical scientist jobs in Australia.

Are there any Medical scientists or pathologists here? What area do you work in? I like transfusion myself.