Is the SAT a valid measure of a persons iq? I think it doesnt

>>8014719
Tests test your ability to take that test, they may or may not reflect to some degree some or other underlying inherent ability

No.
Also aren't those shit scores or did they update the total metric again?

Stop making these threads.

>>8014748
Who are you talking to? Ive never posted this or seen anything directly related to what i said here

>>8014719
>girl with higher score than I doesn't grasp "causality"

Doesn't she eat when she's hungry?

>>8014769
She thinks she eats because in her brain a molecule that isnt moving starts moving because it wants to and leads to her deciding to eat

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>>8014775
So, what you're saying is she acts without the expectation of some given consequence?

It's a measure of how hard someone studied for the SAT

SATs are about as good a measure of intelligence (which isn't saying much) as an IQ test. Taking multiple IQ tests consecutively will result in an increased score just as the SAT would.

I would bet that the SAT measures future success a hell of a lot better than IQ though.

>>8014719
MBTI -> INTJ and INTP are the 2 types that hold the most Gs but only account for ~5% of the population.

>>8014719
The SAT is basically a glorified IQ test. The problem with IQ tests is that they are only a proxy for your intelligence. They only directly measure how well you can take that specific test, but this is used to predict intelligence. There will always be exceptions (one of the dumbest people I met at college got a 2000-2100 on the SAT (I think around 1400/1600) which isn't super fantastic, but it's well above average and not the score you'd expect an idiot to get).

while it can be trained for and that may lend to overscore, they correlate with iq tests as well as they correlate with eachother. Have some experimental sections and get a large population to take it and it de facto is one.

I have a 2300 with an 800 in math and I'm practically retarded. It basically shows if you memorized a bunch of vocabulary words and are competent in basic algebra and some geometry.

>>8014810
While SAT score is positively correlated with IQ its not actually an IQ test.

>>8014865
The SAT is a general intelligence test and it correlates very highly with IQ tests. If you can't score well on the SAT, then you most likely wouldn't be able to score well on an IQ test.

On top of that, the SAT (or ACT) is used because it is a very good indicator of success in college.

>>8014719
As a CS/CE major I will not have to take any standardized tests to enter the workforce. I think we should start giving high schools accreditation like we do universities. Some colleges could require tests for admission or placement similar to high schools. That is just my two cents though. I just think it is lazy to put so much trust in the SAT and ACT when they are particularly easy to "game".

>>8014719
>Is the SAT a valid measure of a persons iq?

No.

>>8014806
>I would bet that the SAT measures future success a hell of a lot better than IQ though.

yeah, no fucking shit

>>8014886
They aren't easy to game, even taking courses to prepare yourself for the SAT really doesn't help that much.

>>8014933

no one listen to this fool

>>8014941
Oh me and my evidence. Taking a class only usually helps an additional 20-30 points (out of 1600 points) per http://www.wsj.com/articles/do-sat-prep-courses-help-test-takers-1430491933. I really don't see how else you mean 'game', but however you're using it you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

>>8014947

you're objectively wrong, faggot.

nice "evidence" btw.

>be a first-sem high school senior
>did some practice math for ACT (like ~200 questions)
>read a bunch of pop-sci (these discuss the scientific method and interpret statistics and datasets, all you really need for the science section)
>read non-fiction literature, mostly best sellers (to practice reading and grammar)
>take ACT
>get 35 composite
>"wow anon! what did you do to study?"

>>8014950
If I'm objectively wrong, then you should have no problem providing evidence, right? Why don't you go ahead and do that, this is /sci/ after all. Let me guess, you're one of those people who didn't do well on the SAT but insists it isn't because you aren't smart, it's a problem with the test.

>>8014719
Maybe you're terrible at explaining causality.

>>8014953
The beauty of this site is that you never really know who you are replying to.

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>Be sophomore edgy betafag (See: OP)
> "Nobody understands me, I'm too smart for you guys, college doesn't actually matter"
> Take SAT w/o studying because I'm above that normie shit
> Do shit because I am shit
>mfw 1400/2400
>Girl with big tits in geometry gets 2000/2400 on first try because she actually studied and is going to get to leave bumfuck Kansas unlike me
> Post edgy post on /sci/ because I'm "awakened" because I post on 4chan
>mfw when all the comments are negative because I'm shit

>>8014950
>>8014953
Oh, here's some more, you retard

> Last year the National Association for College Admission Counseling released a report concluding that test prep courses have minimal impact in improving SAT scores - about 10-20 points on average in mathematics and 5-10 points in critical reading.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/37197700/ns/us_news-life/t/college-board-sat-courses-have-little-effect/#.VxWRN_krLIU

>>8014961
I don't know who exactly, but I can profile the type of person. It's not very flattering.

The SAT correlates with IQ.

But you can very easily study for the SAT and raise your score significantly, so it is not a true proxy for IQ.

>>8014963
>Be OP
>get into edgy philosophical debate with girl
>muh free will
>muh determinism
>girl disagrees

GIRL MUST BE DUM CUZ SHE NO AGRREEE WITH ME LAMO RITE GUISE?!?! GUISE?!?! XDXD

>>8014719

Looks like its community college for you OP

>>8014999
That's the case with any IQ test, though. By studying really really hard, you can probably raise your score 100 points (out of 2400) tops. Then again, you can do the same thing with classic IQ test questions (the spacial/number pattern recognition problems, the anagrams, and the letter/number correlation problems especially).

>>8015015
There are ways to normalize those right?

I don't think so. I took the SAT twice with massive differences. My first score was a 2030 and my second was a 2160. I don't think from either of those you could determine IQ. It's just a matter of how much you've studied or how you're feeling on that particular day.

>>8014719
It best correlates with parents' income.

>>8015026
There are ways to normalize both, what's your point? Mine is that even with intense studying you won't be able to significantly raise your score.

>>8015039
No it correlates best with their ancestry. I would also argue parental income is a by product of parental IQ.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/27/study-finds-race-growing-explanatory-factor-sat-scores-california

It correlates with parental income. Students that attend better high schools/prep schools score higher on average than students that come from rural and inner-city schools. I was in the latter group and scored very low on the SAT. Later attended a top university and outperformed classmates that scored in 99% of the SAT. My actual intelligence was not predicted very well by my low SAT score.

>>8015071
That's misleading. Those students would be more likely to do better than other students because the student being rich means it's more likely the parents (or at least one parent) is more likely to be above average intelligence (just in terms of raising your socioeconomic status). Intelligence is genetic. This also explains why wealthier people do better, however, intense studying and SAT prep classes do little to raise the score.

> My actual intelligence was not predicted very well by my low SAT score

How do you know? Even IQ is a relatively rough measure, but it still beats things like gpa.

>>8014746
I think he is speaking about the comprehension and mathematics portions only which bet score is I think 1600

>>8015097
>intense studying and SAT prep classes do little to raise the score

This. I know kids who studies a bunch and still did shit. I studied for a week (mostly writing) and I scored near perfect.

>>8015097

I assume you're OP because you're spouting the same pseudo intellectual shit he was spouting but seriously. IQ doesn't mean shit. Theres a reason why colleges don't ask for your IQ score and that's because it means jack shit.

Wealthier people do better because they live in better school districts which have better teachers and learn better.

You're not going to change the world because you came onto /sci/ complaining about the SAT.

>>801511
So why do they "bad schools" spend way more per pupil than the rich ones and still can't close the gap? Being obtuse about cognitive differences just sets ungifted folk up to fail.

>>8015060
That although your scores will have a dispersion they will converge.

>>8015106
I didn't get near perfect, but I got around 1500/1600 (maybe 2220-2280/2400 I think?) with very little preparation (despite the fact that my parents are loaded). A friend gave me the official college board book (with the tests already filled out, lol), so I skimmed it and took the test once. I knew people who spent thousands on SAT prep classes, they still didn't do particularly great.

>>8015118
Not OP, it's also not pseudointellectual. I'm not trying to make this complicated, it's pretty simple. Just because wealthier people do better, doesn't mean it's because they are wealthy. I never said anything about IQ, I was asking what you/he meant by intelligence if SAT is supposedly a shitty measure and mentioning that even IQ is a very rough, indirect measure.

False, the wealthy do better because they are more likely to be more intelligent (that's just genetics, you're probably pretty intelligent if you can make yourself wealthy, so you'll pass that on to your kids). Another reason that wealth is only correlated with (but not the cause of) high SAT scores is because taking SAT prep courses really don't help that much. As has been mentioned before, SAT prep courses only help 20-30 points (out of 2400) on average.

I'm not complaining about the SAT, it was possibly the strongest part of my college application all those years ago. I loved the SAT. I do much better on standardized testing than I do on things like gpa that rely on effort instead of just intelligence/talent. Go back and reread what I wrote, half of your objections are to things I didn't even say. It's like you saw "IQ" and just started foaming at the mouth. I've never taken an IQ test, I have no idea what mine is and I don't feel an overwhelming desire to find out.

I took the ACT. Wish I could have taken the SAT. Scored a 33 with no sleep. Anybody beat it? (This isn't me being an ass. It's an easy test.)

>>8015139
What are you trying to say? The original point was that IQ and SAT are both indirect measures of intelligence, despite that SAT is extremely correlated with intelligence.

>>8015150
Never took the ACT, I wish I did. It's not quite as focused on critical reading (my worst part because of ADHD) and has a science section I would have done well on. I got somewhere near a 2250 on the SAT, so that's about equal to a 33 on the ACT.

>>8015159
Always did bad with reading. When did you learn that you had ADHD and how? I have had a lot of problems throughout adolescence that I couldn't understand (being a pretty good academic student) until recently after having dropped out an employer told me he thought I had it and that it impaired my work. I didn't like that idea but it sort of seemed to make sense. I would love to have an explanation or part of an explanation for a lot of the shit that I have experienced but also don't want to get tripped up in confirmation bias. What do you think I should do anon?

>>8015146
>A friend gave me the official college board book (with the tests already filled out, lol), so I skimmed it and took the test once

Lol same, but most wasn't filled it. Went through that and read some guides here and there on college confidential. Meanwhile all the chinks studied forever and could barely break 2000. Feels good that a dirty Arab like myself beat them.

>>8015146
Congrats on your high score. Unfortunately it means jack shit and is little predictor of success in college. You tell yourself you did well on the SAT to compensate for your shit grades and lack of effort/success when it comes to actually doing something that doesn't require multiple choice test. SAT has little predictor in success in grad school, success in life or success in research. Anyone that isn't half retarded and studies can score in the 2100+ range. Pre-Calculus math, word problems and memorizing vocab words isn't that hard. Your accomplishment on the SAT means jack shit.

>>8015186
I've never been diagnosed (my parents don't think it exists, lol). This is surprisingly fortunate for me because I'm working on putting together a packet to apply to Army OCS (taking medication for ADHD is a disqualifier). I put it together in middle school or high school. I have the entire diagnostic criteria for the predominantly inattentive subtype of ADHD.

You may have it, it is quite common. Let me explain how I feel about it (the best explanation I've ever heard). Basically, I will frequently lose focus (zone out, even during a conversation so I'll need to put together what the person was talking about - usually I only lose details). This is worst when I'm reading (for the CR on the SAT I didn't read the stories, I only read bits and pieces that were referenced by questions). I find that I will frequently abandon whatever it is that I need to do in order to look up this random thing I'm wondering about and I get sucked into a wikipedia hole (last night for instance, I was wondering if the CIA is categorized under DHS, so I googled it, found out it's an independent agency on the Director of National Intelligence, so then I read all about the DNI, etc. etc.). Finally, I find the one thing that keeps me on track is the fear. The anxiety of not finishing a task I need to does a pretty good job of keeping me on track when it's crucial. I was prescribed with symptoms of anxiety (by a GP, no a psychiatrist, I had to get this reversed and explained as a mistake for the Army, lol) and was prescribed lexapro (escitalopram) - an SSRI. It eliminated that anxiety, but it also eliminated my ability to get things done, I needed to withdrawal from school for a semester because of it.

Let me know if you have anymore questions, I'd be happy help.

>>8015213
I have ADHD and I cannot focus on exams for extended periods of time. I get bored. I can hyper-focus on math topics I'm interested in, but otherwise I skim, don't pay attention and have a hard time doing well in classes despite being smart. It's like a hidden disability.

>>8014764
>IQ thread
>never seen it before

>>8015213
Yeah. I'd be primarily hyperactive. I always pace, I talk a lot. Lots of impulsivity, but nothing crazy. I have hundreds of Ableton Live sets, half-finished songs. 10 LPs worth. Can't finish them. Get bored, develop an idea, abandon. I also do the sporadic research. Know organic chem to physics to calc to history and it all GENUINELY enthuses me. I always entertain those. I always thought I was just curious, just smart. Teachers in grade school would have me do a different thing than everyone else; I ran through like 15 baby grade school science textbooks on geology and weather and shit in 7h grade. I also did that; skip the reading, just run to the questions, read the questions, speed-dentify the parts of the reading with answers, and then mark the response. Shockingly I got a 35 in reading, near perfect. That's probably 40% chance though.

It wasn't really till my first job when my manager was like "yeah, I don't think you can focus, I think you have ADHD and we don't really need you" that I started thinking about it. It makes sense. I didn't think it was real until I researched it and saw that there's a neurological profile for this. I don't want to go looking for a diagnosis but it's like, this would really explain a lot for me

>>8015217
Yeah this was me. I refused to take notes and got marked down in several classes for it. I just don't learn that way and since I found it extremely boring, I was determined not to do it. Never did it once

OP made this thread cause his life is shitty and all he has to hold onto is his SAT scores that don't matter lmao.

I got a 1670 on the SAT, the first time, during my freshman year of high school.

I took it a second time around the end of my junior year, and got a 2260. How did that happen, you ask? Well, I'm not too sure. I knew absolutely no math when I went in, and I had been copying homework from friends and barely passing/failing tests in my general math courses. I also didn't read very much.

I ended up kicking it into high gear and I went through Principles of Mathematics by Allendoerfer and Precalculus Math in a Nutshell, by Simmons, and I got a 780 on the math portion, which was a huge increase from my previous score of 430. I also read plenty of shitty sci-fi novels, so I was a bit better with vocabulary and reading comprehension/analysis, which helped raise the other areas.

I have to say, people that claim that your math score is fairly rigid, are a little misguided, but maybe I'm just a special case, so who knows.

>>8015231
Not a special case. Anyone is capable of it, but people like to feel smug and superior.

>>8015197
I really don't know how it isn't clear. Basically, wealth and SAT scores are correlated, however, there are confounding factors that could explain the link (genetics). Correlation =/= causation. Studies have shown that rich people tend to be more intelligent. Because the SAT is testing for intelligence (in a rough, indirect way), it would then make sense for rich people to do better, even if they don't spend money on prep classes or SAT books. I'm not looking for a congrats, I'm trying to explain to you because you aren't understanding this (by your own admission). The original comment I replied to was that wealthier people do better on the SAT because they spend more money on books/prep classes, and I'm trying to explain to you how that isn't true. Additionally, it is well established that prep courses only increase your score by 20-30 points on average (overall, not per section).

It's not thinly veiled, and it's not a humblebrag. It's boasting, call it what it is. My whole reason for bringing it up is to try and explain this to you because you have said you aren't understanding.

>>8015201
Oh yeah, I remember the good ole days of college confidential (chance me for HYPSM). You know asians (at least east asian and indian) actually have it hardest with standardized testing. Blacks and hispanics are given bonus points over whites through affirmative action, but asians are actually penalized relative to whites, must suck to be them.

>>8015210
Actually the SAT is extremely correlated with success in college, that's why it's still used. Also, I've graduated and am in the workforce (investment banking, they actually asked me for my SAT score when I was applying for my summer internship a few years ago). You tell yourself whatever you need to because you did shitty on the SAT, but it was a very good predictor of my college success and actually helped me a fair amount.

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>>8014963
>>8014952

>having to study to score in the 99th percentile on standardized tests calibrated for literal apes

I got a 2100 on my SAT and I'm failing Calc II

the score was high for my school

>>8015237
you're a cunt and that book sucks

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/02/19/study-finds-little-difference-academic-success-students-who-do-and-dont-submit-sat

http://www.americaspromise.org/news/pbs-newshour-biggest-predictor-college-success-family-income

http://blog.prepscholar.com/does-sat-predict-your-college-success-and-future-income

>>8015235
>Oh yeah, I remember the good ole days of college confidential (chance me for HYPSM).

Where do you go to school now? I go to Brown, sucks though since I could have done better if I hadn't almost flunked my senior year in hs

>>8015235
Your SAT score is lower than the engineers in my classes.

>>8015217
This is true. Throughout secondary school and the first half of college I was just able to cruise through on talent, but I did hit a wall and end up needing to learn how to force myself to work. I always had the hardest time when a test is timed and it's actually a rush to finish the test.

>>8015221
I can relate to this a bit (I probably have mild-moderate hyperactive ADHD as well, desu). I go through stages where I get really really really into something and do it for like hours upon hours then abandon it within 3 days. I'd say go for it. I mean unless you really really have a dream to do something where you can't be diagnosed/treated for ADHD (like if you wanted to go military, for instance). Fortunately, I've coped with ADHD for long enough that I think I can continue doing it. I'm certain I'd do better in general with treatment, but I'm functional.

>>8014719
no, because my sister got near perfect scores in the math and science and bombed the reading section. She got accused of cheating on the test, but it turns out she could not understand questions about fictional pieces, she got everything nonfiction right.

Later she was diagnosed with nonverbal learning disability.

>>8015246
I ended up going to Columbia. I really really wanted MIT, and I was waitlisted, but I just couldn't take the risk of not getting into a college for that year. I also really wanted Harvard (when I visited it was like Hogwarts, that was my first thought, haha), but I was flat out rejected there. I also really really just coasted senior year (well, really only the second half because I already knew where I was gonna go to school, got my first and only D because the teacher hated me, haha).

>>8015247
Yeah, but it's higher than yours - I can taste the salt from here. Also, who cares? Honestly, as long as you get about 750+ on each section you are considered qualified for such and such school. There's really not that much of a difference between a 750 and a 780 since it can be one question, or it could be the same score, but everyone else taking the test did worse. On top of that, who cares? Engineers tend to be pretty smart people. By the fact I didn't get a perfect score, I know that there are people who did better and are smarter than I. I wonder why you're talking shit about engineers? They'll almost certainly make double what you do when you graduate.

>>8015265
i'll let you have the last word so you thread will prune quicker.

>>8015255
Yeah, I would love treatment. I do not function and it sucks. I can't hold a job, dropped out of school. I got kicked out a few times. I was never violent or angry. I don't want a career where I can't have ADHD... I just don't know where to go to get diagnosed. The doctor would want to talk to my family and shit, and they don't believe it's an illness. Thank you for the feedback anon

>>8014719
2320 here.

Fuck no, it isn't.

>>8015271
Not my thread, if you notice I'm actually arguing the opposite of what OP was/is, but it's not fair of me to expect you to be able to read, is it?

>>8015265
Niceee. I really wish I ended up going to a less liberal shit hole. Had to go to CC for a year before ending up here. Oh well its still a good school

>>8015278
First off if I told you my SAT was higher it wouldn't prove anything. Second of all I don't give a shit if you aren't OP. I think this thread is shitty, you're shitty and this board is shitty when it's full of low IQ plebs like you shitting it up with IQ and SAT threads.

>>8015273
Honestly, you'll notice a huge difference with treatment. I did take adderall once or twice and I noticed it made a huge difference. I'd recommend you give it a shot. ADHD is a real thing just like any other disorder and the treatment can give you a normal life.

>>8015278
>>8015265
>>8015235
>>8015146

assburgers

>>8015285
Haha, Columbia is pretty liberal too. I don't know if you remember the girl who lied about being raped and carried her mattress around with her everywhere, but that's pretty common among some people there (mostly liberal arts majors). I noticed within STEM (I majored in math) this was less common, so that was nice. Plenty of reasonable people, but you only really hear about the crazies.

>>8015288
Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify your <2000 SAT score. If you think this thread and board are so shitty, why are you here?

>>8015291
No, not really, I'm pretty neurotypical, but thanks for your contribution.

>>8015295
autism

>>8015297
I think you're projecting.

>>8015295
2350 now fuck off

>>8015302
How sad is it that you need to go on the internet and tell lies to make you feel less shitty about yourself?

>>8015315
>investment banker
>math degree
>starting salary 300k

yeah you're full of shit

>>8015323
Starting salary was actually only about $75k + bonuses, so total compensation was around$110k my first year. I've been doing it for about 6 years now, so I made more than that last year (and a little more than $300k too in case you're wondering).

>>8015295
Yeah it seems like all the Ivies are getting cucked. There was also that thing at Yale a little while back with the negro yelling at that guy for not creating a safe space or something. Also there's some SJW shenanigans occurring at Harvard Law.